Kiva.org: Unofficial Team Meh. UPDATE - May 31st 2015
6When I first posted the original thread here asking people to join Kiva.org and Team Meh. Honestly, I didn't know if I would get a few team members, or hear crickets.
I was awed by the response that came in. In only 5 days we have done amazing things to help human beings, and alleviate poverty in parts of the world we can only imagine.
Here is what we have done in 5 days time:
- We have a total of 36 Team members.
- We have made 47 loans to 19 individuals around the world.
- We are ranked #5 in new users in the Business Category.
- Of the 19 loans we have made we are "Top 5 Team" status in 18 of them.
- Of those 18 loans we were the #1 Team in 9 of them!!!!!!
- We have loans in the following countries: Tanzania, Peru, Philippines, Malawi, El Salvador, Ecuador, Samoa, Zambia, Tajikistan, Kenya, Columbia, Uganda, Georgia & Bolivia
While there were a few members who had 2 or more loans, I have to point out two that did so much to help: @Mikey & @Einrad
But it doesn't matter if you did 1 loan or 10, thank you so much for what you have done. You are all ROCK STARS!
But we need more help. We still have two loans that have not been fully funded.
Our team page is here: http://www.kiva.org/invitedto/Meh/by/mark16507974
For Meh. users who are not familiar with Kiva. here is the original thread: https://meh.com/forum/topics/join-team-meh--and-help-people-around-the-world
I will let Kiva.org speak for itself:
If you need more encouragement to join Team Meh and help alleviate poverty around the world here it is
- 13 comments, 68 replies
- Comment
And by the way 7 members rallied together to help Jose buy a goat in honor of @Narfcakes Goat Retirement. To which you didn't show up!!!!
Seriously, what a crappy topic bubble. @JonT can we somehow get it changed to our logo:
@mfladd Thank you :)
@JonT One more request, can you change the title of this thread to the "Unofficial Team Meh", just so it won't be associated with Meh.com Thanks.
I've been an "international financier" through Kiva for about 10 years and have made 81 loans. One loan defaulted on the last 1% of payments due, so I lost about $1.00; in another loan I lost about $1.80 in currency exchanges. The rest of my now-closed loans paid in full, and I just rolled the repayments over to new loans. I started with $50, then gradually increased my funding to $200. There's a special vibe about lending $25.00 to help someone across the globe make their life better, especially since that $25.00 comes back to me and gets loaned out to someone else.
@ mfladd , I want to thank you for thinking about a Kiva Team Meh. It was a great idea!
@magic_cave thank you, and it is nice to see you again :)
Kiva doesn't help people.
http://nextbillion.net/blogpost.aspx?blogid=3726
@phatmass Seriously? Excuse me if I take Charity Navigators rating on Kiva first : http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=12978#.VWvtsEbLnBo
@mfladd Just because a charity is financially healthy and transparent doesn't mean that it actually helps people. How much am I really helping a person by giving them a $50 loan, which is most likely being handled by a local loan shark who sometimes makes them pay it back at 100% interest. I'd rather just give them $50.
@phatmass I hear you on the interest thing. These are people who would probably NEVER get a loan to better their lives otherwise. Yet, with an almost 99% loan repayment rate they aren't doing better? And how exactly would you give them the $50? I understand if you have issues about how Kiva works. But I do believe I am helping people to help themselves.
@mfladd A money order if they don't have PayPal. lol
@mfladd https://www.unbound.org/
@phatmass @mfladd I'm not a fan of Kiva for many reasons, but I will say that Kiva Zip (http://KivaZip.org) is a step in the right direction . . . they directly lend to borrowers at 0 percent interest via the Internet (PayPal) and via mobile phones (M-PESA). They transfer the funds raised directly to the borrowers. Worth a look if you have qualms about the "traditional" Kiva methodology that admittedly uses intermediaries that make on average 35% off the loan.
@Pavlov True. but ZIP loans can only be made to those seeking loans in the US (I am not supporting Bob's new pizza oven) or Kenya. I will stay my course gentleman.
@mfladd I'm not bagging on you or looking for you to change and I didn't say that KivaZip was a better solution, I said it was a step in the right direction - do as you wish - but @phatmass does bring up an excellent point and there are many of us that will not be comfortable with Kiva . . . And, that's okay.
@Pavlov I couldn't concur more. (especially since you are the next goat and I can blame you for everything!)
@mfladd I ain't been badged yet . . .
@Pavlov how about a bet? If you are named goat you put $20 toward the Goat game, if not, I will put $20 more in. https://meh.com/forum/topics/we-could-name-a-goat-in-an-obscure-board-game-but-we-need-your-help
@mfladd I'm really kind of Meh on the board game . . . If I'm goat I'll do $20 above my usual to KivaZip, if you are goat, you do $20 more to Kiva. If neither of us is goat we both do it anyway. I dunno - the whole board game thing doesn't do it for me, not sure why.
@Pavlov I am in. Really, it is Scape! Just do Kenya, and not Bob's new pizza oven. I will even let you pick my next loan if I win or lose..
@mfladd I most always do Kenya . . . Anyway - no new goat yet.
@Pavlov @mfladd
@Pavlov I have made 32 Kiva Zip loans and 27 "regular" loans. ONE of my regular loans is delinquent, none have defaulted. Over on Zip, I have 5 delinquent loans and 1 defaulted loan. For whatever reason, I find repayment on Zip to be very poor. I'm not even expecting my money back - it's that I am disappointed by the abuse and lack of commitment people show on Zip. I'm well aware of the loan shark issues on "regular" Kiva, but at the same time, Zip is full of abuse and scams. No happy middle.
@Collin1000 There is no happy middle ground, which was what I was getting at in my post above. I think KivaZip is a step in the right direction but lacks oversight. We have one default and one delinquent loan on KivaZip out of 14 (we're about $2800 in at KivaZip - we do it as a company along with other giving). We're extremely "picky" in making a loan, as I am sure you are also . . . @hart sums up things nicely below.
I'm tempted to weigh in on this, but as I don't have/understand the full picture (and don't want to incite a bloodbath) I'll refrain from doing so (for now).
Suffice it to say that some of you may be alienating some of Meh's constituency by associating the "community" with causes (philosophical, political, economic) that many individuals may not support and may not what to be associated with. From what I have been able to gather there's a whole shitload of presumptuous activity going on here that I, for one, don't believe is appropriate.
@eyewerks Let the bloodletting begin . . .
@Pavlov I concur completely....
@eyewerks
@eyewerks I'm not sure how 2 threads that you can choose to be involved in are a problem?
@Thumperchick I think what eyewerks is getting at is that by calling it "team meh" it's insinuating all meh community members are on board with this cause. The OP mentioned rankings for the Business Class, so it would seem they registered team meh as a business entity which might draw the attention of the lawyers for meh.com. I'm part of the meh community by choice, but I feel roped into this 'team meh" which isn't something I signed up for.
@medz the Kiva site does not say anything about Meh.com. You just have to pick a category as a team. Most of the business teams sites were not started by the actual businesses. They were started by people associated with them. I did not mean to start this @hitstorm.
@mfladd No good deed ever goes unpunished. Sorry it turned into this.
@mfladd Too late.This is all on you and I will never forgive you for what you have done here. KIDDING! I'm not extremely annoyed or anything. We're cool.
@medz That's part of what I was getting at, @medz. I'm not comfortable with my participation in the Meh community being confused with support for causes that others enbrace and stamp with the "team Meh" seal of approval. What's more important, however, is that all these community offshoots may be doing more to alienate people from participating in the primary community by creating cliques and "insider" info/humor/etc.,. that does not make for an environment of inclusion. I think most of us post here to have a have a good time and joke around about whatever rubbish may be for sale on a particular day. Expanding the scope of the community to causes beyond that is bound to be divisive to all but members of the core clique. I've seen it happen countless times, and it would be a shame were it to happen here.
@mfladd Please do not take personal offense to my comments. While I may not agree with the manner in which you solicit support for your cause, and while I may or may not support the specific cause, I do sincerely believe that your intentions are good and honorable, if misguided.
@Thumperchick Hey. Don't get me started on your name a goat in a board game, cause! :)
@eyewerks Feel free. It won't change the fact that we funded that silly thing. It won't change the fact that with kiva, a group of people got together to do some good.
It seems your cause is to berate others, then say "Hey! You weren't supposed to take me seriously!"
@Thumperchick Who exactly did I berate? Perhaps you should read my post and tell me who was singled out. I think that perhaps what I wrote caused people to self-reflect and realize the truth of the matter. No one was attacked, ...hell, no one was even mentioned. But, make no mistake, ...what I said up there ^^^ was meant most seriously.
I am serious low-income due to a medical mistake blah blah blah and am on SSID. but I hate money so I was thinking of doing this then read a bit and saw the interest (whatever they call it) and tried to understand it all... and put it on hold.
Then read the above article & it brought back memories of trying to help an individual in South Africa.
As North Americans we are so isolated to most of the world especially such impoverished areas... and South Africa is considered the diamond of Africa but it is still so "difficult" to understand or help.
Just sending something by the mail is usually stolen by someone in the SA postal system. The current president is a proud rapist as that is what a chief does and when he was asked, in court, if he was worried if he had caught HIV during sex with the woman he raped he educated everyone by saying that he had taken a shower so he knew that he had not caught HIV! This is all on his profile on wikipedia.
The country is so dangerous that carjacking, by gun, is a daily occurrence at major cities at any red light. When my friend started talking about "Taxi Wars" I thought he might talk about price wars but he started talking about machine gun carrying drivers! My friend started telling me about summer life in the village where tribal customs often left young teen boys dead or very sick & even with HIV!
HIV/AIDS is so prevalent there and the USA donates so much money to fight it but so much is wasted! Many are so desperate to get stoned that they will break into HIV pharmacies and steal those meds to get stoned! UGH! Then there are the witch doctors who do not believe in Western Meds & if you have the stomach you can look for what SA do for HIV/AIDS now! "The Virgin Cure". but I warn you against searching for it!
The point of all this... I learned that helping someone, even a well educated, middle class person, within a poorly structured system was very difficult. Transferring money bank to bank was a little expensive. I even looked at Amazon and at that time SA was on a special list of untrustworthy countries to ship to. Eventually lies were caught and trust was broken but it was a fascinating experience for a number of years. Life changing actually.
If I were to fund any kind of overseas projects my friend was always talking about cleanliness. Bringing and educating villagers about soap including water/wells would be great projects.
...but there are so many things that need funding in the USA. So many children go to school hungry, vets are homeless, elderly doing without so much... well, you all get the point.
@fjp999 No, I don't get your point, please include abundantly profuse detail in your much anticipated further explanation of which I look forward. Thank you.
@fjp999 I'd be interested in knowing how many sniffy commentators have ever been to a Third World country, or even possess a passport.
@OldCatLady I am not sure if I am "sniffy" but I have been to Cambodia (a least developed nation at the time), adopted a nearly 10 year old from there and couldn't stand to walk away from the poverty so started an NGO, several orphanages, several schools, some wells, etc. all while a grad student and new adoptive mom. The poverty there made the "Feed the children" ads look like those kids lived in riches. I have also seen some pretty horrific poverty on a couple of Indian reservations that rival 3rd world (but not the worst) conditions. And there are people in this country who have to make choices between health insurance (eg no medicaid expansion state) and health care and rent… In my personal opinion there are so many people who need help that what matters is that you help. Someone. Somewhere in the world.
@Pavlov I could make a really snide comment but I am trying to help out here which seems to be rather impossible! The point being the places where most of these funds are going to are from what I understand male dominated societies! If you think for one nano second that females in these areas are in any kind of control then you are not looking at any international news! I lived in Asia for nearly a decade, I had a passport since graduating from uni *as if that really matters... North Americans are very noble in their efforts but really never learn! We cannot, no matter how much we try, put our standards on other cultures. It isn't about being negative on Kiva or a downer on this great effort but it is about being realistic. I could go on with true stories that I have experienced or that women have told me from around the world but who cares? btw, did anyone have the stomach to look up The Virgin Cure?
@fjp999 I remain confused. Please elaborate and include abundantly profuse detail in your much anticipated further explanation of which I look forward. Thank you.
@Pavlov Indeed! and thus you will remain forever.
@fjp999 Alas, how remorseful a turn of events is this . . . I thought perhaps you believed in your position strongly enough to succinctly articulate it for my edification. I apologize for my assuming you held these atrocities so closely that you would pursue their understanding by others with vigor. Perhaps I was mistaken, or you are unwilling or unable. My apologies. I'll certainly keep an open mind if you ever decide differently.
@fjp999 Make no mistake, he (@Pavlov) is fucking with you - and for what it is worth, maybe rightfully so.
@stfu Perish the thought!
@Pavlov TS;DR
Hey everyone, it was never my intention to cause a dark cloud around this place. I apologize for that. I honestly was just trying to do something good. Anyway, consider this thread retired and let the fun on the rest of the site continue. Sorry again.
@mfladd Sorry that a few people took the wind out of your sails. Don't let them browbeat you into submission, though. There will always be someone with something contrary to say, someone with a different opinion. When it comes to this though - maybe stick to the original thread, which is where most of team Meh is looking for updates :)
@mfladd FYI, all of the above listed complaints were concerns of mine also -- BUT I was able to find a country that did not offend my political views and fund a person who truly needed it. As the saying goes, lend only that which you can afford to lose -- if the person I funded defaults, I can afford to lose the $25. You didn't MAKE us do anything. You presented us with the opportunity to do something good for others. Personally, I was hoping you would come raise funds for my charity of choice because you have amazing spirit and enthusaism!!!! One of the "M"'s you matched!
@mikibell Thank you :)
@mfladd Are you some sort of numbskull? Why woud you think that anyone believes that you intentionally tried to hover a thunderhead over Meh? You're obviously just trying to promote your cause. Now stop apologizing, and get back to panhandling for team @mfladd. :)
UNOFFICIAL team Meh.
@medz Aw crap... I don't know if it can be changed, but it absolutely should be unofficial meh. Damn, always forget the 1 rule.
@medz How about "Team Bleeding Heart Liberals at Meh"? :)
@eyewerks no good. I'm pretty liberal, but I'm not on this team.
I'm not sure how much I can help here, but before I came to the merry ole land of Meh, I was actually a nonprofit director for a few years and I've served on a few nonprofit boards (mostly working in public health or poverty - one of which mostly serves developing countries).
First, Charity Navigator isn't a great resource. It's helpful, but definitely shouldn't be your end-all, be-all. I don't want to disparage them as an organization, but I want that to be out there. Do your own research for charities, always.
Second, let's talk about microloans/microfinancing. For some reason, giving something away for nothing tends to end in chaos. I have no idea why, but people just don't use free services/money responsibly. There's actually some psychological phenomenon as to why, but I don't remember enough about the theory. Anyway, that's why most nonprofits require some small cost for services. Microloans are actually incredibly successful because of this principle. It keeps people on target and responsible with their finances.
Lastly, Kiva. Ok, so Kiva suffers from the same problem a lot of nonprofits do. Great idea, great intentions, terrible execution. Even though they're loans are beneficial (the interest rates are normally far below their local market rates, if they even have any), they're just terribly inefficient. Their costs are astronomical, especially given how many of their "labor" is made up of volunteers. And, like many other nonprofits with highly marketable ideas, it became too brand-focused and too protected. We don't know why they have such a high return rate on loans. Arguably, a much higher percentage should fail and default, but we don't know how Kiva is preventing that (or if they're just hiding it).
If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Microlending becomes a trend in developing nations. A nonprofit that can market well takes the lead in the field. They don't have their own microlenders or banks setup, so who do they use? Exactly, local lenders who are going to charge shocking interest (to us). Maybe one day that'll change.
TL;DR Don't just trust reviews, do research. Microloans are awesome, but easily exploitable. Kiva is ok, just not what most people want/believe it to be.
Edit: Just to be clear, these are just my thoughts as a former nonprofit...er? What would be the term for that? Anyway, obviously, this doesn't reflect Meh and as @medz pointed out, this Kiva team is unofficial.
@hart Thanks for adding your perspective.
@hart As a former nonprofit professional, you can claim to be a FNP. Not to be confused with a FNG.
@hart One of the reasons why they have such a high repayment rate is the rules for someone to even to be able to be funded to begin with. The group/community connection helps with the repayment. Plus they have to have some savings of their own towards the project (well at least this used to be true - haven't checked it out recently).
@OldCatLady Somebody slap me if I post before checking urban dictionary.
@OldCatLady omygoodness........................... hahahahhaahahaha if you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't have looked them up!!
I love the idea of helping others in need. However... I'll bet we all know someone in our lives that could use a little help. While I have nothing against helping poor strangers in other countries, I prefer to help those I'm more closely in touch with, be it personal friends or internet connections. This past year I've helped several friends with vet bills for their cats (hey, I'm a cat person) and another friend whose husband had to have his foot amputated due to a motorcycle accident 2 /12 years ago. He can't work as he's still having issues after 19 surgeries and she bartends to pay the bills. Two of these people are still in need of continued help (and have gofundme pages) and I'd be happy to share if anyone wanted to donate a bit. One of my cat friends had to take her cat back to the ER just last night. Not to mention, we have one very loved user here on meh that I think most of us are aware has gone through some tough times and could also use some help. (Ghetto van anyone?)
So, I applaud the idea of helping others and it's each person's own decision as to how and where they would like to help. Kudos to all who are helping, no matter how they are doing so.
@cinoclav Your comment went to a good place. :)
@cinoclav - It is so hard to try to decide who to help. I feel sympathy for the people of Nepal. There are so many people that need help everywhere, and it breaks my heart to think of hungry people in my own town/state/country. I wish I could help more, but finances prevent it. I help at the local food bank when I can, volunteer tutor literacy/ESL, and otherwise feel powerless to help.
@KDemo Even spreading the word to others that may be able to help is doing something positive. Always keep that in mind! Just because you may not have the finances yourself, you're empowering others and helping in your own way.
@cinoclav I completely agree. We all have our own favorite causes, and like you I believe that charity begins at home. That aside, all of you that contribute to help others, whoever they may be (excluding ISIS) are do-gooders.
@KDemo "helping" doesn't always have to be monetary. giving of your time is just as valuable, if not more so, than money. you are able to establish a personal connection with the people you are helping and i think that oftentimes provides more of a spiritual reward than a monetary donation. so, good on you, continue to donate your time, experience and knowledge to your own community!
@cinoclav The Ghetto van RIP 1/1990 - 3/2015 terminal engine bearings. cinoclav email me at my user name here and the usual yahoo
@cinoclav What I like about the Meh community is that it's gentle.
I just signed up and joined "Meh." team to fund some tamales in South America; however, I then read: "consider this thread retired and let the fun on the rest of the site continue. Sorry again."
So we are no longer to fund tamales and chickens OR are we just not to discuss it anymore on Meh.com? OR OR is this particular thread retired and y'all are hiding from me on another thread?
DO I FUND THE TAMALES 'ER NAH?
@connorbush I am still here. Thank you for joining up! I was just lying low while the shitstorm passed. I still believe in what we are doing, besides all the noise. It seems people are avoiding this thread like the plague, so thanks for stopping by. :) So be it - I don't care.
@connorbush Fund them all you like. I will even match your loan when you do,
Sorry to drop a little reality into the conversation (well, no, I'm not really), but for those who have never travelled outside the U.S., you might want to see what the State Department has to say on some of the countries. http://www.travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country.html If you feel that you can do more good by personally handing cash to the people who want to buy a new cow or more seedlings, do please make a trip to Kenya, or Mali, or Ethiopia, and record EVERYTHING. I, at least, will watch it with deep interest.
@OldCatLady our country has a really shitty record when it comes to having sensible opinions about foreign nations sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Hey, I just got my first repayment installation! Is it weird that I'm super excited for farmer Christine in Kenya? Like, GO CHRISTINE! You make it happen!
@Thumperchick Yea! Mine have started too. I just wish you had used my pristine first thread rather than this train wreck ;) Great post on the other Train wreck thread BTW.
@mfladd Sorry, I search for "kiva" and this was the only one that came up. I'll post this in the other one.
@Thumperchick thanks, we wouldn't want it to act as another summoning spell - with our liberal agenda and all ;)