Project Precipice Week 5: brainstorming with bezos
21week 1 how’s it going
week 2 say hello to inlo
week 3 strategery and defiance
week 4 a breakfast octopus prequel
week 5 brainstorming with bezos
Welcome back. Last week I left you hanging, asking you to guess the question that Jeff Bezos asked me when we first met in March 2006. So without further ado, here it is. The question that Jeff leaned forward and asked me was:
Have you ever considered showing your customers your cost?
Bam. He was suggesting we reveal what we paid for the things we were selling. You may now just see this as a random common question, but let me assure you that it is not. Not when asked by Jeff Bezos. None of you were going to guess it. It’s not like it’s a complicated question but it implied a greater appreciation of Woot than I expected. The quality of our customer relationship or even the limits of that relationship as a retailer. He understood why we had fans and not just customers. But he also knew we had constraints. Damn. An honor to be asked this, I quickly thought.
I tried to recall specific examples of our push toward customer transparency, but they were lame compared to this. Still, the question had to be answered affirmatively. So, yes, I said, after some false starts. I actually had thought about that. And then nothing else but a smile – acknowledgment that it was a good question. A nod back from him. I simultaneously wish I had said more while also being pleased I didn’t fuck up a high-bandwidth exchange.
As far as I remember, that might have ended the meeting. It didn’t literally but I mean as far as I was concerned, nothing else of any relevance was said. As I traveled back home, I thought about this question. Could it be that Bezos wondered about the disruptive quality of Woot with regard to how we could affect Amazon? Like, did he fear erosion of his margin if his costs were known, item by item? Nah, that can’t be. We’re tiny and irrelevant. Was he just showing me that he appreciated our rebellious attitude – that he was also a rebel? Perhaps. Or even more clever, maybe he was saying he saw through it all. That we couldn’t possibly be totally honest with our customers and his question proved it. I was equally a sellout to him.
I actually have a twinge of guilt when the Original Breakfast Octopus story is shared. ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ Why? I mean sure it’s entirely reasonable and appropriate to hate on billionaires. But the single story presents a simplistic caricature of Bezos, 4 years later, working to give me a thoughtful answer to why they had then acquired Woot. The breakfast octopus quote makes him sound like a crazy cartoon villain. He kind of is now. But it was a more reasonable deflection with context. The blunt answer was tactical and boring to both of us. Amazon bought Woot because it was unique, hard to compete against and accretive to their value. It was just the classic “buy versus build” assessment. But he knew that was not inspiring. So he tried. The full arc of the story is going back 4 years to know he’d done better back then, in 2006. The second attempt just fell flat.
A few weeks into our Project Precipice revival project, I realized this memory was actually aligning with some of our ideas for SideDeal. No new features are ready to launch, but we’re keen on defining a new meaning for the SideDeal brand. Like, a side deal should be when you get something outside of the regular retail channel. You have a connection to get a better deal, on the side, so you do it. To prove out the deal, you need transparency. I told the Bezos story to my team and was surprised to recall so well the hearing of his question. It felt like Bezos was participating in our brainstorming. Yes, great input Jeff! Let’s make each SideDeal have this as a Bezos-mode.
Have we thought about showing customers our cost? Yes sir! and 16 years later we’re going to try it out.
Participation Request!
Our current idea is to have a button that you can press to see our cost on SideDeal item pages. We want to see how much interest there is in the feature across the board. To start, however, only select deals on SideDeal would have this transparency enabled.
Your task is to Design / Photoshop / Sketch and photograph your suggestion for a “Bezos Button” (with or without credit to Bezos) Entries with the most likes will win something.
- 41 comments, 45 replies
- Comment
Here’s an example to get things started:
Feel free to comment as well. Happy to have feedback on where we’re headed.
i’m not tied to the Oxford comma, so your team has some creative license here
@carl669 I really like the multiple “options”, good job!
@carl669 Oh, Carl, you really know how to pitch an idea!!
@jenniferhebden he’s coming in for the kiss!
@jenniferhebden Tell us why, show us how
My quick after-lunch idea, without Bezos. The inclusion will probably raise more questions, like “Did you sell out to Amazon again?”, “Why isn’t Alexa working?”, “How come I have to pay for shipping as a Prime member?”, and “Why can’t I use my Amazon gift cards?” Also the site would have to suggest completely unrelated items for no reason whatsoever.
Besides the product costs, there ought to be separate line items for packaging materials, fulfillment labor, shipping (at a quantity one rate), etc. Also the octopus clipart was swiped when I did an image search for “royalty free octopus”; there may still be costs involved for actual commercial use.
@narfcake yes, to be clear, I expect most of these with him to be just funny and agree it’ll be unlikely that we actually find the best UI involves connecting the feature to him.
great real entry!
Here’s my “Transparency Button”.
Do you think maybe it’s a little too transparent?
This might be a bit on the nose, but I give you Sozeb.
(sorry for the 10-minute photoshop job, I’m being paid to do other things.)
@ExtraMedium just to be clear, it should be “sozeB”
@jenniferhebden The rocket needs to look more like a turgid member, to be accurate!!
@CBL_WV @jenniferhebden My thought exactly. That looks like a generic rocket, not a Bezos class space penis.
Oh shit I didn’t read that right.
@Ignorant Seeing how there are folks thinking you’re calling them ignorant while replying with a helpful answer, I can just imagine the complaint mail – why is the site calling me a bozo?
I figured I’d add some links noting the sharing of the octopus story and just came across this:
https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/peta-says-no-more-breakfast-octopus-for-bezos-to-help-save-the-amazon-and-the-rest-of-the-earth-he-must-go-vegan/
I’ve never been more pleased with my order of avocado toast.
@snapster admit it. you’re a teensy bit jealous you don’t have a letter from PETA
@snapster Given PETA’s reputation, getting slammed by them is a badge of honor, and merits making the cited action into a permanent program. I wouldn’t donate a Mexican diez-centavo coin I found in a parking lot to them. I damn sure would not trust them with the custody of any animal, of any kind, anywhere.
@snapster @werehatrack
A PETA protest I would see!
@MarkDaSpark @snapster @werehatrack
/giphy but what does it mean?
/giphy bees
Pretty Sure we are royalty-free here…
I’m not good with photo shopping, but how about a scratch off style button or bar. Everyone likes scratchers.
Edit: maybe add a captcha to piss everyone off too…hahahaha
@jaybird this is the answer. love the idea of a scratch off. people who are motivated to know the answer will scratch it, people who just want to buy [whatever] at that price will just pay it.
@pippakay click meh to reveal the daily face, scratch the face to reveal the cost. Of course, side deal would need to adopt a meh face like button for this to work.
An interactive slider that says it controls how much profit you want to give to meh. Put $0 on one end and make up something that’s like 10% of whatever the item price is. It doesn’t actually do anything.
@heartny I like it…but i’m pretty sure they’d be hearing from the Amazon Legal team over the use of their penis, i mean “smile” arrow logo…
@earlyre No doubt there would be legal issues, but for this I was just using it as a proxy for Bezos. A basic arrow, or whatever, wouldn’t have the same effect.
I’m envisioning the last of the image slides being a random warehouse worker holding a sign written in sharpie:
“We paid $4.22 for each of these.”
@Nate311 I like this idea!
@Nate311 this is good. again, people who want to know, will scroll through the pics. people who just want the deal will just hit ‘buy’.
/giphy See what we paid.
Woot has sucked since Amazon bought them. The whole point of going on Woot was the pleasant surprise of a good deal. Now its just an extension of Amazon - just another Amazon product pushing website. I haven’t been on woot in forever but the last time I did the deas didn’t even seem good deals. And,no, I don’t need or want to know the cost.
@jaynedough I’m with you on Woot.
Do you want to show cost or profit margin? You could do a “You pay $x” “We make $x” binary. Can’t expect folks to factor in overhead to your cost and see the reasonableness or lack thereof. Too much math.
/giphy profit
@GrandmaLyn Yeah, acquisition cost <> fully loaded cost with SG&A, etc. And I’m sure shipping costs vary by item even with one-size-fits-all shipping payments.
I am impressed with the design skilz of the meh community!
@jenniferhebden Oooh, purty. Me likee
That is a fascinating question, and you’re right, I never would have guessed it.
@heartny’s Deal Reveal button is good stuff!
@djslack thanks! It was meaningful to me and I was confident no one would guess it but I started to realize if I gave good enough clues they might. That would have made for a dull update!
@jenniferhebden Will clicking make the bad man go away?
@jenniferhebden @mschuette maybe something like this but up through the browser.
So I’m anything related to computers retarded but how about make it a game. Where you can guess your cost of the item. Have a certain product each day that people try to guess the exact cost of. First person to guess, gets a coupon code or something.
@Star2236 that’s fun if we were talking daily deals but the bulk of SideDeal is is for more persistent items where the price and cost may change over time while the offer stays for sale.
@Star2236
/giphy one dollar bob
I felt like I had to…
Not quite the same but:
Wanna know how rich we will get selling this? The net profit for this item is… Then they click on the $ sign, or a pile of gold coins
You could add selling Y # of them for the nosy.
Of course up further you said your profit may change over time (or maybe you said your costs? I can’t remember and too lazy and tired to go look). But then that would mean making changes periodically and I’d guess that you don’t want to bother to do.
So, am I going to feel bad now when I find out you paid more for those speaker docks than you can move them for?
@Helot That sounds like our problem, not yours! Would anyone honestly trust a company’s claims that they are selling products at a loss?
@Helot @mschuette Well there is such thing as a loss leader… just sayin’
@Helot @mschuette Oh yeah. The last new car I bought, the salesman told me on the down-low that I was paying less than the car cost the dealer.
He said that he could even lose his job over it, so I needed to be quiet.
He wouldn’t have lied to me, right?
Right??
@G1 @Helot @mschuette
Thought everyone knew that those big, flashy new car dealerships were just charitable organizations there to help auto manufacturers get their goods to market for a loss since the real money to be made is in the used market. I know that according to the salemen, sales managers, & GMs that a new car dealership has never made a penny from anything that I have bought, however, somehow all those involved made a living losing the company money.
@G1 @Helot @mschuette @wskaufman2
Hmm. Sounds like the business model of professional sports team owners that always can’t seem to make a go at their business without taxpayers footing the bill for a new stadium or some such. It’s not like the taxpayers get shares or a cut of gross receipts in return for the corporate welfare handouts to these shitty businessmen (and they are overwhelmingly white men that also had the benefits of institutionalized racism - so how can we expect minority-owned businesses to succeed when even a club of rich white guys can’t make a buck owning
other peoplea sports team?).Is it mean to say he looks like Mr Bean? Personally do not know him and since we are nothing alike. As, when it’s season greetings my sales occasionally get freebies thrown in. Just make sure to notify those who received extras to not mention of such. Yes, eye lose profits yet in return make trading partners for life. I suppose in his wallet those type of characteristics are tax right offs apperntly the under $20 category. Occasionally, receive those buy it at this price. Personally, eye actually do say eye paid this honestly eye won’t take less than this. Those offers are usually just resellers trying to buy items nearly at my cost with no such luck. It’s not Xmas year round geez.
I feel like you can’t just show the cost.
Instead, I think right at shipping time, if someone orders with your “Bezos Button” - you include unit cost acquisition and overhead cost. Bonus points if you break out actual material cost such as $1.50 for a #200 8x8x12.
Customers can try to find out the logistics system overhead of Mercatalyst one order at a time.
Then, you can have fun with it -does ordering 3 of an item at time reduce the cost? What about making the order $.50 more expensive to acquire that info? What if you include the emails from the buyer negotiating the cost(redacted in certain ways of course)?
Go wonky enough with it and it might be the metrics-driven fever dream that Amazon wished it could do.
Anywho, a button can be anything but knowing or not knowing what it might do is what actually makes someone press it and want to press it again. My vote:
(Buy Now $X.xx(AA% off) with Cost Reveal)
@clutchdude Wow, why didn’t I think of that? /s
/giphy samjackson
Or with a little more of a Meh script…
@ybmuG OK - kids, never COVID and work…
“shone”???
/giphy ha ha ha ha
@ybmuG oh no, you got the Covid? Hope it is a mild case and you feel better soon!!!
@tinamarie1974 thanks. Yes it was omicron and mostly like a bad cold. Been almost a week and I’m pretty much better.
OK, let’s try that again
Replace the SD with BS - Smaller print “See the” above and “here” below.
Does this item make Business Sense?
Of course, BS really means Bezo’s Sucks not some Bull Shit about Business Savvy and it does not take a Bachelor of Science or a Boy Scout to know it.
General thoughts. Would I click? Yep. Would it change my purchase decision? No. Would it entice me to look more often and therefore buy more? Likely.
Should you include overhead? Yes. Either $$$ plus statement, asterisk, or a calculated value. Even a we get $$$ to keep the lights on and rent paid for each one sold sort of thing.
More thoughts. What will the businesses that sold you the product think? Will you lose opportunities or have requests to not divulge the price? I might be overthinking. I do have that tendency.
On another thread on why the VMP code didn’t work on MorningSave Daybreak or SideDeals’ deal of the day, @Extramedium wrote:
So I’m thinking that for VMPs, the “Bezos Button” or “ShowMe your cost” button be hardcoded to do nothing and always show the sale price of the item (i.e. no markup for VMPs)… whether or not it is true.
Penis envy for Bezos much?
How about a guessing widget? I’m not a design or UI guy so I’ll skip drawing it for all of our sakes, but I’d love some sort of Meh Button-like useless game.
How about a slider? Between $.01 and $100. And wherever the user drags it and drops it, it comes back with hotter/colder or correct. (Maybe have a confirm button and an artificial delay to make people’s guesses count?)
That also has a side benefit of knowing what all of us initially thought you paid for it, which would also be cool if you shared with us.
I’ve read parts one through five but I still feel a bit lost.
I think I’m reading that things are happening to revive some of the good old Meh energy and atmosphere? Is that right?
For example, the “show me what mercatalyst paid button”?
I would love to have the thrills and excitement back of the heady days when I bought a refurb pro logic home theater system; the refurb Dyson I still use: the eee laptop that my nephew later destroyed in a fit of rage ; the red action cams; the micro drones; the thrill of the half working but insanely awesome auto-closing chi wireless charger and phone holder I got in an IRK (or was it a fuko?).
And who could forget the tale of the electric tooth brushes…!
/image Schrödinger’s toothbrush
Good to you around here again my dude!
POPSOCKETS! COURT DOCKETS! FOLK ROCK HITS! AWESOME!
@mediocrebot
Indeed! Concerning certain toothbrushes-as-a-service toothbrushes!
@GLaDOS @mediocrebot
@GLaDOS @snapster in case it wasn’t clear, I forgot to specify that all my favorite daily deals have been electronics or electrically powered. So more electronics pls? Maybe?
@GLaDOS @snapster Like maybe a wireless laser mouse that uses a 26650 battery and has a variable-output emitter with software that has an unpatched hackable attribute that permits a dastard to remotely crank up the output for a few seconds to the point that it ignites iron… Cool stuff. Not five-year-old-tech wallwarts with no cables.
Kidding, sheesh! But for real, is this thing closed yet?
@lichme like that motivational cat hanging on before it falls… project precipice shall return!
oh and yeah we owe you and are working on it.
hey it’s kinda nostalgic like when @jasontoon was in charge of the prizes!
@snapster
There’s the raw cost (cost of goods sold) and then there’s cost including overhead (warehousing, fulfillment, shipping, and all costs related to running a business) which can be substantial relative to actual cost. Which (or both) is more relevant?