GTFO IAN 🌀🌀🌀

@yakkoTDI I know what you mean! For whatever reason I have most of my plants in containers so I’ve spent most of the day moving most of them to the lanai. It’s not “hurricane-proof” but at least they won’t be hurtling around the neighborhood. I hope. Will finish up tomorrow…

What area are you in?

@llangley I am just south of Tampa.

@Kidsandliz thanks. One of our local weathermen always says “don’t freak out unless I’m freaking out” and he isn’t. Yet.

@Kidsandliz @llangley I don’t want to alarm anyone, but Jim Cantore showed up…

@mike808 Oh, for a storm guidance system to focus weather where it should be. Mar-a-Lardo needs attention.

@mike808 I’ve been trying and will continue to do so! MoRon DickSantis must go!

@OldCatLady Agreed

@llangley @OldCatLady
The forecast is … moist weather ahead.

@llangley @mike808 Looks pretty moist to me.

@llangley @OldCatLady @mike808 Is it too much to ask for Ian to take out both of those useless turds & leave the rest of y’all alone? But seriously, i hope you guys don’t get hit too hard. Stay safe!

@mike808 Please don’t read this in an antagonistic tone, and please don’t let this devolve into a political debate. This isn’t the place, and I probably don’t have the political views you’ll think I do, anyway.

DeSantis didn’t summon the storm to Florida. This thread isn’t a “rant about politicians you don’t like who preside in a state you don’t live in” thread, it’s a “rant about weather you can’t control and seek unity and comfort together thread.”

If you care about unity, why are you saying divisive things, bordering on slander, about a politician over 50% of people in Florida voted for, and who has policies about 50% of the country generally agree with? I’m not a DeSantis apologist and I don’t agree with the stunt he pulled at Martha’s Vineyard, but I can understand why he did it (partly to pander to his base, sure). That said, it’s not even close to the same thing as human trafficking. It’s divisive to say it is.

Unity goes both ways. I hope you gets whatever federal funding you need from my state whenever an unfortunate natural disaster affects you. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

@Weboh Please post more often. You are a breath of fresh air here.

@Weboh “Unity” isn’t a rationalization for tolerating abuse. It is an excuse an abuser uses to continue perpetrating the abuse.

@mike808 @Weboh And “unity” that only goes one way is enabling the abuse.

@mike808 DeDumbass has been on TV non stop touting what he is doing for the people of Florida during Ian. Not once did that piece of shit mention what FEMA and Biden promised to do for the state. He is so obsessed with winning over the MAGA retards, he refuses to acknowledge anything that is inconsistent with their brainwashed thoughts.

@mike808 @Weboh I don’t quite get your point, since i don’t think anyone is saying that just because some Floridians have poor taste in politicians, they shouldn’t get help after a natural disaster, i think it was more an effort to point out the hypocrisy of the situation. But since you brought it up, i think it might help to clarify the facts. Just because Ronny DeDumbass didn’t send those poor people to other states at gunpoint, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t human trafficking, which is defined by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (unodc.org) as the following (which, from all reports I’ve heard so far, EXACTLY fits the description of what he did):

Human trafficking is the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of people through force, fraud or deception, with the aim of exploiting them for profit. Men, women and children of all ages and from all backgrounds can become victims of this crime, which occurs in every region of the world. The traffickers often use violence or fraudulent employment agencies and fake promises of education and job opportunities to trick and coerce their victims.

@ircon96
The point of my previous comment wasn’t to argue semantics with mike808, it was an attempt to keep this from spiraling into a partisan debate. That’s the point of this comment, too.

It’s not hypocritical to ask for aid. The whole point of that stunt—which, again, I don’t endorse—was to ask for aid (with the illegal immigrant issue). There’s no conflict between those two goals; I would argue there was no reason to even bring it up in a thread about a hurricane.

What ishypocritical is to call for unity and say divisive, inflammatory things in same breath. Regardless of whether it technically fits the definition of human trafficking, the term is usually used as a euphemism for (sex) slavery. That’s why the media used that term: to evoke a strong reaction.

I don’t expect to change your mind o on this issue. In fact, I kind of agree with you! I’m just trying to keep this as civil as possible and reduce rancorous, partisan debate. I think we can all agree using people as political pawns is a wrong thing to do. It’s easier to find unity if we can talk about it in those terms (and if we use politicians’ real names instead of resorting to name-calling).

@Felton10 I think every governor of every state ever is on TV nonstop during a crisis to say how much they’ll help. Using a tragedy to get political points is par for the course in any party, unfortunately.

No matter what governor Florida had, and no matter what president the US had, the state would get basically the same amount of money from FEMA. Rightwing, leftwing, center—doesn’t matter. Can we focus on the positive, instead? We have funding to help people that need it. Not every country has that during a crisis.

Modern politics always focuses on the negative because that gets more engagement. Let’s beat the system and be more meh about it, finding middle ground.

@Weboh While i agree that civil discourse is (almost) always preferable, some especially egregious, craven specimens of humanity just beg for an epithetic nickname! But seriously, if Ronny were truly interested in getting help with the understandably overwhelming situation, he’d get together with the other governors & federal agencies & work out a solution, not play childish games in an attempt to “own the libs” at the expense of exhausted, desperate, often traumatized migrants who are following the procedures currently in place to seek asylum, rather than so-called “illegal” immigrants (another loaded phrase used to rile up the masses). Whether or not they meet the criteria is a matter for the courts to adjudicate, and in the meantime, yes, all states should be helping to ease the burden at the borders, but they can’t have the resources in place if these MAGA disciples insist on pulling cruel, cynical stunts instead of acting like rational human beings.

@Weboh Ps- i almost forgot, i wanted to reassure you that we here in the New England states, including Massachusetts, are sending lots of crews down there to help, so there’s no pettiness being sent down that way from us, just good will in your time of need. Stay safe!

@ircon96 @Weboh And because DeSantis did engage in trafficking, he just qualified all of those asylum seekers for a fast track U-Visa (reserved for victims of a crime, which is what they are now). Thanks, DeSantis!

@ircon96 I agree with almost everything you said. I would only add that civil discourse is always preferable and name-calling is never helpful.

If it’s okay for you to insult a select group of people on one side of the aisle, then it’s okay for them to insult a select group of people on your side of the aisle, which antagonizes them to do more extreme things which makes more of them worthy of insult, which makes them insult more of the people on the other side… and that’s how we wound up in the current political state.

If you treat everyone with respect, you make them more likely to respect you—and hopefully your opinion, too. If you start out a conversation with epithetic nicknames, you put people on the defense and make them less receptive to your ideas, even if you make good points.

@ircon96 @mike808. Nice Double Standards there!

@Weboh - excellent points.

You do realize that those flown to MV had already been “trafficked” by Biden? Middle of the night flights into Florida. And BTW, Biden encouraged those illegal immigrants in the first place!

But hey, let’s inject politics where it doesn’t belong.

Liberals … always empathetic to others, except when it comes to Conservatives. Defiant L nails the hypocrisy!

@ircon96 @MarkDaSpark @Weboh
You do realize that “Biden” didn’t issue a Presidential Order to the DHS (Rule 42) forcing them to implement the “whack-a-mole” hide-and-seek practices used by ICE to create this clusterfuck in the first place. That trophy, of course, goes to TFG.

So can you try to stay at least fact-adjacent, 'mkay?

I have no empathy for chronic serially abusive sociopaths. And I won’t feel guilty about it.

@MarkDaSpark

@mike808 LOL

I just wish you’d be anywhere in a suburb close to fact-adjacent! Your TDS is showing.

Anyway, time to get back to the natural disaster and not the unnatural one in DC!

@MarkDaSpark
When Ron DeSantis was a newly elected congressman representing Jacksonville, FL, he voted against a 9.7 billion dollar aid package for victims of hurricane Sandy in 2013.

Source: Congresional record.

@MarkDaSpark
The vote was on Jan 4, 2013 - the day after he was sworn in.

“This ‘put it on the credit card mentality’ is part of the reason we find ourselves nearly $17 trillion in debt,” DeSantis said, explaining his vote.

@MarkDaSpark Thanks, but I think you missed my main point. If you agree we shouldn’t talk politics in this thread, why bring it up again after political discussion had died down?

You also resorted to name-calling and made your point in a way that wouldn’t be likely to change someone’s mind. All it did was evoke a reaction from mike808 and make both of you feel justified about the positions you already held.

Let’s try to keep Meh free from the kind of political cockfighting that’s too common elsewhere. You can make political arguments, (on appropriate threads) but do it in a civil way that encourages discussion.

Example: At first, it looked like @ircon96 and I totally disagreed. A rational discussion revealed we actually agreed on all the basic points of the discussion. Not completely, not on semantics or specifics, sure. If I had started out the way you did, saying “you liberals always…” he would have countered with “you conservatives always…” and then we would have come out of the conversation thinking “the other side of the aisle is always…”—finding no middle ground but remaining firm in our belief that all the people on the other side of the aisle are worthy of disrespect because they all hold the same incorrect view.

Let’s do better.

@Bingo yeah, it’s that 24-hour slow crawl up the coast between Weds and Thurs

@Bingo Your personal best bet is that it either goes way to the west or far enough to the east; the north and east sides of a northbound hurricane are the areas with the highest winds and rain in nearly every case. If the eye runs along just on the coast, you’ll get the full brunt. Much also depends upon the range of the gale-or-higher winds; when David missed Miami by a fairly narrow margin several decades back, we felt literally no effects at all at a point three miles inshore. That same distance from the center of Ike would have been full-on Cat2.

@Bingo
OMG! It’s really kind of beautiful, except for what it portends.

@Bingo @Kyeh God: “I’ve got this”

@Bingo This photo reminds me of the times my mom used to tell a story from her days as a Navy Nurse while stationed in Pensacola. The memories of that day stuck with her for decades.

She and her roommates attended a late afternoon showing of the movie “On The Beach,” starring Ava Gardner & dreamboat Gregory Peck.

The basic gist of the movie is…“After World War III, Australia is the only remaining haven for mankind. However, wind currents carrying lingering radiation all but condemn those on the continent to the same fate suffered by the rest of the world.”

Knowing enough about radiation poisoning, the subject matter shook them up just a wee bit, so when they walked out of the theater just as the sun had dropped over the horizon, you can imagine how rattled they were to be met with a sky that looked like a scene out of the movie–absolutely post-apocalyptic.

Everything was lit in unearthly shades of orange, pink, & red. When they looked at each other, it was like all the blues & greens in their world had simply vanished. Zero breeze, and deadly quiet. No birds singing, no sounds of traffic. Just silence. She said the sky was filled with the most unusual cloud formations they had ever seen. It was like the world had just stopped and they were the survivors of whatever had happened while they were watching the movie.

Thanks for bringing back a memory

My kids & husband are battening down the hatches down in the Jax area while I’m 900 miles away keeping an eye on my dad while he does dad things that make me want to cover my eyes. All I can do is watch the tracking and hope when the worst of the winds hit they’ll be blowing the HUGE pines in our yard AWAY from our house.

@Bingo This scares the hell out of me. I’ve taken pictures of fire skies that look like this (I’m in Southern California).

Never a good look. Just not normal at all.

@Bingo @LaVikinga The worst part about southern pines is their tendency to snap off halfway up, and land with even greater force than if they’d been uprooted.

@Bingo @LaVikinga @werehatrack
I can well remember driving thru the area that Michael devastated in the Panhandle on the way to check on my SIL’s beach house on St George Island and seeing mile of fields with pine trees snapped off about 20 ft up… and that was 100 miles from the coast!

@kostia Thank that weather nerd, please.

@OldCatLady We have!

@PooltoyWolf what a great shot! I like you’re “hunkering down” plans

@llangley Maybe I should take a picture of said room.

@PooltoyWolf That picture is not very calming. Hope it all looks better today.

@phendrick Right now, it’s a bit breezy and drizzling. Expecting things to pick up considerably tomorrow.

@chienfou Looks wimdy!

@werehatrack Not to make light of the seriousness, and I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, but when I saw “if the radar imaging can be believed” I wonder how many people will still call this just part of “the global warming hoax.” Apparently about 38% of the country still thinks that, and ironically, even more in Florida.

@werehatrack that’s what our local weatherman says too…just like Charlie. Up through the middle through Orlando again. We’re still in for some heavy winds here but it sounds like it won’t be as bad as was expected. Sure hope you guys down south are okay. Anyone hear from @Felton10? I thought he lived around Lakewood Ranch…

@pmarin The problem is that radar is based on cloud cover, and precipitation, and without the animation to show what the rate of rotation looks like, it’s hard to judge the actual severity of the storm. Size, yes. Severity - not so much. A lot of really nasty hurricanes have not looked terribly bad on the radar, and some with a huge radar footprint have been relatively weak in the wind area, but by golly they delivered too much water.

@Felton10 @llangley
He said this yesterday in the blame thread: https://meh.com/forum/topics/what-goats-with-white-wine-september-2022-scapegoat-blame-thread#6332571ace1e1b45da3a9864
Felton, are you guys okay?
llangley, I’m relieved to hear that it’s probably not going to be too bad for you!

@Kyeh thanks…
I don’t do the blame thing (nothing against it) so I forget to check that thread .

@Felton10 Good to hear. Hoping everyone in the path stays safe. This one’s a bitch

@Kyeh @llangley Worst in 20 years we have been in Florida.

@Felton10 For your area, yeah. I was at ground zero for Andrew in '92. And we got the eye of Cleo three decades earlier.

@Kyeh The storm surge was aimed pretty much directly at that part of the coast, and on up through the Port Charlotte area. Anything low-lying (which is pretty much everything, that far south) within a mile of the shoreline was likely to get some of it, and that’s a big chunk of the city.

@mike808 Thanks…It feels like Tampa is becoming a pro at escaping these but (as with Hurricane Charlie) we were So. Fucking. Lucky. Those surges that went through Fort Myers would have devastated downtown Tampa. I’m dreading the A.M. damage reports

@Felton10 In southern Dade after Andrew, the power loss rate was almost exactly 100%. They had megavolt lines and even some long-distance transmission towers down. Huge reinforced concrete power poles littered the streets in pieces. For a while after the storm, you either had your own generator or you were out of luck. A Home Depot store near my parents’ house was completely flattened; a hotel across the highway was an empty steel framework when the winds died down. Fortunately, they had told everyone to leave, and the structure was unoccupied when the storm hit.

@Felton10 Please update.

@OldCatLady We were really lucky like I said-only 15 minutes without electricity and no damage to our house. Some damage in our community. Live oak on the other side of tee box in back of our home blown over.

Slats in back fence destroyed like they were pick up sticks

But Walter and I took it all in stride

@Felton10 @OldCatLady
AND you even got an IRK, right?

@Kyeh @OldCatLady Yes-last night on the first one offered so everything is normal.

@llangley Really happy to hear it!!!
Thanks for letting us know.

@Bingo

@Bingo Being grateful you were spared is not the same thing as being happy someone else wasn’t (but I get why it makes you think that way - been there myself). Think of it this way, you being spared means there are more resources available for those who really need them. With a storm like this, we’ll take all the good news we can get! Glad to hear one was you.

@mike808
Nope… Competent carpenters matter…

@chienfou As opposed to a couple of dudes hanging out in the parking lot of Lowe’s or Home Depot?

@mike808
Is that were the union hall is now?

@chienfou No, but maybe you can learn some gooder English there.

@mike808
I’ll work on it… Meanwhile, consider using a licensed/bonded contractor next time.

@chienfou You do realize that the only thing a “licensed contractor” guarantees is that the company checked the box on the form claiming they have workman’s compensation insurance and paid the $25 license fee. There is zero qualifications for the company. There are zero customer protections and zero requirements for any employee or subcontractor to have any carpentry skills or abilities whatsoever. The subcontractors your “licensed” contractor have zero benefits or job protections, and are likely 1099 so your “contractor” can pretend they’re not actually hiring “illegals” as folks want to demonize them while taking advantage of them and participating in trafficking, and screw taxpayers by looking the other way while their subcontractors get paid substandard or even below living wages. So yeah, thanks for participating in modernized legal slavery.

So tell me again how that is magically “better” than a union signatory contractor, where membership requires training, skill, and experience. Do not equate “cheap” with “quality”.

@mike808
While I appreciate your passion in this matter, pulling “facts” out of your ass doesn’t make them true.

There’s virtually nothing in your first paragraph that is accurate in relation to licensed general contractors in Alabama. A quick Google search of the requirements will demonstrate that fact to you.
My argument is not that no one should use Union contractors. My point is that being a union member is not the only way you can get those skills.
BTW can you provide any details on that picture, such as where and when it was taken. I would hope that the building inspector had a few things to say about that…

@chienfou I looked up the requirements for a “contractor license” in my state, and the results were - surprise - there aren’t any, other than assuring there is worker’s compensation insurance in place. That’s it. No requirement for skilled workers, trained workers, workers being paid fair, liveable wages, … nothing.

I didn’t say you were against hiring union workers. I was pointing out that there is no evidence to suggest that the mere posession of a “contractor’s license” supports the your claim that they are equivalent or superior to a union carpenter (or a contractor that uses union carpenters, called a signatory contractor, btw).

If you have sources that Alabama licensed contractors are required to use union carpenters or in the alternative, have formal training, qualification, and experience requirements, then I will certainly be surpised. My hunch is you can’t reference anybsuch sources because they don’t exist. So as much as you would like your claims to be true, that doesn’t make them so.

So I stand behind my claim that union carpenters are going to deliver a superior work product in hanging joists properly than your vague, unproven claims of false equivalence to a general “licensed contractor”.

@mike808
Wow. Where to start

I looked up the requirements for a “contractor license” in my state

The post is about Florida… is that where you live now?
(from the FLORIDA statutes):
 “Certified contractor” means any contractor who possesses a certificate of competency issued by the department and who shall be allowed to contract in any jurisdiction in the state without being required to fulfill the competency requirements of that jurisdiction.

If you have sources that Alabama licensed contractors are required to use union carpenters or in the alternative, have formal training, qualification, and experience requirements,

Again… Alabama, not Florida, but:
If the application is satisfactory to the board, then the applicant is entitled to an
examination to determine the applicant’s qualifications.

The application process includes financial and reference requirements
(quote): Applicant must attach a total of THREE reference forms (pages 12 – 14) from
ANY COMBINATION of the following:
(1) Licensed General Contractor
(2) Registered Architect
(3) Registered Professional Engineer
(4) Qualified person as declared by the Board
All work referenced must be commercial/industrial work completed in prior years in the
classification(s) requested within this application.
References must be completed by individuals who have supervised commercial/industrial work completed by the applicant.*

I was pointing out that there is no evidence to suggest that the mere posession [sic] of a “contractor’s license” supports the your claim that they are equivalent or superior to a union carpenter.

I’m not sure where I claimed that. I merely suggested that using COMPETENT people would also work. Not having a union card is NOT a guarantee that work will be done that is sub-par, any more than having one is a “guarantee” that work will be done properly. That’s why they still have building inspectors inspect jobs that use signatory contractors.

Oh BTW, I’m still waiting for the details on the pic you posted…

@werehatrack Exactly. Union means trained, demonstrated skills, and experienced. The difference in the union pay scale is you pay more for more of those abilities.

And to pay for the freeloaders and “recipients” (as Republicans like to demonize them) within the union in right-to-work-for-less states.

@werehatrack I think modern hurricane code requirements are to use deck/wood screws and/or hurricane straps. The high winds actually create a significant lifting force on the leeward side of the roof, depending on the orientation to the wind.

Something they learned in Andrew. Apparently everywhere else along the Gulf Coast learned those lessons long before Andrew. Then again, Florida has always been a bit slow on the uptake. Somebody gotta make Alabama and Mississippi not feel so bad about themselves, you know.

@mike808 @werehatrack Hey Mike, I thought we agreed politics don’t belong on this thread. It’s certainly not the place to dump on Florida (Ike already did that ). It’s a place to support Floridians.

Besides, you’ve already made it clear you don’t have a full understanding of Florida’s politics or policy (or that of other southern states). And why would you? You aren’t from Florida. These comparisons you’re making might be welcome if they were informed and you made them with a different tone. As is, it just clutters up the thread with the back and forth between you and @chienfou.

Alabama and Mississippi deserve more respect, too. Even if they are backwaters ruined by bad political views, as you seem to imply, they’re also states full of people who generally agree with those policies. None of these states’ policies even affect you.

If you truly care about unity, give people the benefit of the doubt and consider there may be a good reason they do what they do. An argument like the one you’ve made won’t change anyone’s mind.

@Weboh
And Germany was full of fascist racists in the last century. Doesn’t make states full of racists now any more “okay” just because a minority of vocal extremists like it that way. Or that I have to think it is okay because you don’t have a problem with it being popular.

It’s fine. You are all in for race-to-the bottom wages that don’t support living wages, against healthcare as a human right, and against investing in a trained, skilled, and educated workforce. Agree to disagree.

I do support Floridians in the same way they support gun violence and women’s bodily autonomy. Thoughts and prayers.

@mike808
/giphy that’s bait

How is this in any way conducive to good discussion? What was the endgame here?

@Weboh If you were truly interested in a “good discussion”, then you shouldn’t use bad faith fallacies in making your case about having one. I guess the Godwin reference was too subtle for you.

And apparently, so was the irony of the original image posted as a fucking joke about tips to avoid shitty reconstruction after a hurricane.

Have a nice day, Karen.