So I am having to take down my giant Ash tree due to emerald ash bore. I am considering what tree should go in its place.
Ideal tree is 15 to 25 ft tall , zone 7 , pretty, if it provides fruit that could be cool
Well from first hand experience I can tell you what not to have: Mulberry trees, walnut trees, buckeye and horse chestnut trees, and any kind of pine type tree are all way too messy. Willow trees need a ton of water and don’t live all that long. Paper birch are messy too. Oh and the trees that drop the monkey balls. OMG monkey balls are a real PITA. Can’t leaf blow them, hard to rake them, I ended up paying kids by the bag to pick them up. Hard on bare feet too. Sycamore bark is messy. Crab apple trees don’t grow all that high, smell nice when in bloom, wood is strong so you can put a swing on a branch although the fruit dropped isn’t all that good to eat and you have a mess to pick up. As kids we used to throw them and sling shot them at each other (which hurts - clearly we were stupid kids and our parents appeared to believed in natural consequences when it came to doing this - just as clearly we never learned other than to use garage can lids as shields).
Actually a neighbor planted ginko trees (not native to the USA, not sure if they are “invasive”). They have really cool leaves.
@Kidsandliz lots of good advice here. Ginkgo trees are gorgeous, but slow growing. The leaves are pretty and turn a beautiful, bright yellow in the fall. They’ve found fossils with this tree dating back 270 million years ago, so that’s pretty cool.
@luvche21 Yes they are really nice. Once in grade school we had to find leaves, put them between wax paper and identify them. I had a ginko leave in there and it was marked wrong because “they don’t grow in the USA”. Umm yes they do. Next door. Don’t have any idea what the idiotic teacher thought they were - certainly not maple or oak.
@Kidsandliz Don’t forget about gumball trees. Spiky balls. Only decent tool to pick them up is a walnut picker.
Can’t stand the silver maples as they drop branches all the time. Replaced one that died with a white oak. Wish southern magnolias grew up here in STL. Or gardenias. Found a California Verbena that I liked (bloomed like popcorn balls and smelled wonderful). Had a bay tree (bay leaves for gumbo) that was nice growing up.
Avoid poplars too. They grow fast but don’t last and are weak. Also Bradford pears are pretty when they all bloom in spring, but the blooms stink and are glorious only for that one blue sky spring day. They drop branches in storms easily. Most people have switched to the Cleveland pear variety or sand cherry trees. Loved a bloodguard maple we had with deep purple leaves.
For fruiting trees, I’ve had Meyer lemon trees and cumquat bushes living in New Orleans.
@mike808 What you call gumballs I called monkey balls. The most effective way to pick them up is pay little kids by the bag. To kids 5-8ish a $1 a bag seems like a lot of money.
@Kidsandliz I assume you mean pay kids aged 5-8ish and $1 per 30 gal contractor or lawn bag, not pay $1 for 5-8 gum/monkey balls per bag. I ain’t that rich. lol.
@mike808 yes pay kids to pick them up off the ground. I use big paper garbage bags. Would take about 10-15 bags. Tree wasn’t full grown. And the stuff that landed on the moss I could rake most of it up. It was the stuff that was in the grass I couldn’t. Kids would race each other to see who could do the most bags and beat the other kids in that. I once had a kid pick up 2 bags on her own, ring my doorbell and asked to be paid. No longer live there so no longer my problem.
I’m about to have to make the same decision as I have an old beautiful sugar maple that’s going to have to come down (7b zone).
It’s hard to say without looking at the space tho.
@Kidsandliz No need. They are very easy to grow. Just dig a shallow hole and drop in a bunch of dollar bills, in whatever denomination you want to grow.
Be sure to water the area after you plant it. You don’t have to soak the ground - just as quick spritz from the hose to wet the upper soil.
Once done, PM me your address and I’ll stop by one night to oversee your work.
Baring any problems, in 2-5 years you should have your own healthy money tree.
Get a fake tree. It will still provide shade, by you won’t have to worry about infestations or trimming chores. You’ll have beautiful green leaves year-round!
/image artificial yard tree
@Limewater Worth it. How much time and money would you otherwise spend over those 10 years trimming, raking leaves, watering, and ultimately paying someone to cut down and remove a dead/infested tree?
@medz Hmmmm… In the last seven years that I have owned property with trees, I’ve spent about $1000 having two trees removed that should have never been planted where they were in the first place. I’m pretty sure those were planted by the home builders.
Otherwise, I’ve probably spent another $800 on trees that I’ve planted, including fertilizer. I pick trees favorable to my local environment, preferably native.
Watering is cheap, and once a tree is established you don’t really have to do.
I don’t trim my trees any more than is absolutely necessary.
I guess I do have to rake a bit, but it would take a lot of raking to be worth $6500, and I don’t expect any of the trees I’ve planted to live for less than twenty years.
Trees are great. Lawns suck, but trees are great.
How much time and money would you otherwise spend over those 10 years trimming, raking leaves, watering, and ultimately paying someone to cut down and remove a dead/infested tree?
People spend money on that?
I have only trimmed a couple of limbs out of trees due to them being too low to the point that I hit them when I go under the tree with the riding mower. That is also my go-to method to ‘rake leaves’. Watering is what happens when it rains. If not, the rain barrels I have will supply all I need.
Dead trees… nope… thirty years here and I have only cut a couple down in order to build new outbuildings, put in the pool etc.
Guess I may just be lucky??
@chienfou I hope those 30 year old trees aren’t too close to the house. They will eventually die and eventually fall on your house. That’ll only add to your costs.
@Kidsandliz That’s an idea, but I don’t want a fake lawn any more than I want a real lawn.
What I really want is for the rest of American society to adjust their preferences to match my own…
@Kidsandliz I actually just want plants that are not a lawn. Neighborhood restrictive covenants require a lawn, though, at least in the front.
I love plants and I love trees, but lawns are just work and expense for the sake of work and expense. And if you do a good job, your reward is more work and expense.
@Kidsandliz “Beds” are just as bad. Landscaping sucks. I don’t like any of it. I really need to just live in the woods, but we need to stay in a good school district with a short commute, so this is the price we pay.
@Limewater I’m with you on yard work. I like looking at pretty yards but do not want to waste my time doing gardening, yard work… in my opinion it’s like laundry, housecleaning, dishes, washing/cleaning out cars… endless tasks that I hate. And have to do. At least occasionally.
Basically, yes. That’s generally the term in arid places, hardscaping in other places.
That’s what I’m shooting for. A lot of different hardscaping with little grassy sitting areas and pathways around some garden beds (kinda more English garden style).
@Kidsandliz no statistical evidence of that especially given this application wouldn’t constitute the type of long-term exposure that may present any complications.
/giphy science!
I’m not sure that, regarding newish medical issues of chemical exposure and potential or possible dangerous consequences, any quick perusal of internet results yeilds science.
@f00l@medz I have follicular non-hodgkin’s lymphoma and have had significant exposure for years. Of course a testimonial is not science and not predictive of anything. An example of an unmeasured compounding factor is that a mutated mouse virus can also cause that (along with getting breast cancer too - fairly close together - and I have had breast cancer on both sides, all 3 in a short period of time. I have had significant mouse exposure too). That also makes it harder to pin down cause(s).
The peer reviewed science is mixed. Many studies are retrospective or correlational which makes it harder to say anything definitively as well (and correlation does not mean causation).
Likely there are a combination of factors that need to come together to have exposure result in cancer. And it is just as likely that we have no clue what most of these factors are. I was not thrilled to see that honey nut cheerios (that I mix with regular cheerios and have done so since I was a kid and eat daily) has one of the highest ppm of glyphosate in it of all breakfast cereals. So nice to have had exposure that way for years too. Not.
@medz No idea. If you left it on your skin and clothes and didn’t wash it off you’d certainly get more exposure. Sitting on rocks with dried stuff on it might count. If you inhaled a bunch you’d get more exposure. Science is shaky on that as there is a fairly long lag period between exposure to bad cancer causing crap and most cancers.
If one wishes to avoid weed growth in a rock garden, there are non-environmentally-hazardous barrier methods that supposedly work well.
They deprive would-be-weeds of the needed sunlight exposure. And supposedly don’t mess much with water absorption into the soil after rainfall.
So I hear. (I don’t know nuttin’.)
Ask any landscape or garden shop for more info.
No need for Roundup or weeding I would think.
Some people around here xeriscape. Sometimes even in divisions with stupid rules and HOAs. I certainly prefer that look to that of lawns that look nice but are never used for anything except looking nice.
Xeriscaping looks great and is (I think?) close to zero maintenance.
@f00l Yeah, I’ve always put the weed-proof mesh carpet thing down UNDER the rocks, but the issue is the rocks will start to accumulate dust, dirt, crushed leaves, and seeds atop the rocks and stuff starts to grow in there after awhile.
Edit: I reckon if I raked the rocks every so often to move stuff around, it might help…
@Kidsandliz Got one of those pump sprayer things for dandelion killer. I needed to refill it, but I guess I didn’t have all the pressure released and I got a face-full of poison. I could taste it for awhile after that.
@Kidsandliz@medz I make sure part of my put-it-away routine is to let the pressure out fully. I forgot once and it cracked in the heat under pressure in the garage and leaked. Sorry about the mouthful of herbicide.
I planted an ash about 10 years ago. I’m a little worried that about the time it’s tall enough to provide the shade I planted it for, I’ll have to take it down.
My river birch is growing well and looks nice. The red leaf maple is doing well also. Pussy willow “shrub” is now blocking the satellite dish on top of a two-story roof.
@CaptAmehrican No, west coast. Been outside this week planting a laurel hedge. Noticed my ash is full of robins. Hopefully that’s the only thing it’s ever infested with.
I’ve heard that the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.
But Imma vote a cherry tree because they’re pretty.
Apple and crabapple trees also blossom and fruit, and have a wonderful scent in the spring.
Once you remove the tree, will you be left with a giant ash hole? badum tss… Booo… Hissss…
Well from first hand experience I can tell you what not to have: Mulberry trees, walnut trees, buckeye and horse chestnut trees, and any kind of pine type tree are all way too messy. Willow trees need a ton of water and don’t live all that long. Paper birch are messy too. Oh and the trees that drop the monkey balls. OMG monkey balls are a real PITA. Can’t leaf blow them, hard to rake them, I ended up paying kids by the bag to pick them up. Hard on bare feet too. Sycamore bark is messy. Crab apple trees don’t grow all that high, smell nice when in bloom, wood is strong so you can put a swing on a branch although the fruit dropped isn’t all that good to eat and you have a mess to pick up. As kids we used to throw them and sling shot them at each other (which hurts - clearly we were stupid kids and our parents appeared to believed in natural consequences when it came to doing this - just as clearly we never learned other than to use garage can lids as shields).
Actually a neighbor planted ginko trees (not native to the USA, not sure if they are “invasive”). They have really cool leaves.
@Kidsandliz lots of good advice here. Ginkgo trees are gorgeous, but slow growing. The leaves are pretty and turn a beautiful, bright yellow in the fall. They’ve found fossils with this tree dating back 270 million years ago, so that’s pretty cool.
@Kidsandliz I really like these:
/image weeping birch tree
/image weeping cherry tree
/image honey locust shademaster
@luvche21 Yes they are really nice. Once in grade school we had to find leaves, put them between wax paper and identify them. I had a ginko leave in there and it was marked wrong because “they don’t grow in the USA”. Umm yes they do. Next door. Don’t have any idea what the idiotic teacher thought they were - certainly not maple or oak.
@Kidsandliz Don’t forget about gumball trees. Spiky balls. Only decent tool to pick them up is a walnut picker.
Can’t stand the silver maples as they drop branches all the time. Replaced one that died with a white oak. Wish southern magnolias grew up here in STL. Or gardenias. Found a California Verbena that I liked (bloomed like popcorn balls and smelled wonderful). Had a bay tree (bay leaves for gumbo) that was nice growing up.
Avoid poplars too. They grow fast but don’t last and are weak. Also Bradford pears are pretty when they all bloom in spring, but the blooms stink and are glorious only for that one blue sky spring day. They drop branches in storms easily. Most people have switched to the Cleveland pear variety or sand cherry trees. Loved a bloodguard maple we had with deep purple leaves.
For fruiting trees, I’ve had Meyer lemon trees and cumquat bushes living in New Orleans.
@mike808 What you call gumballs I called monkey balls. The most effective way to pick them up is pay little kids by the bag. To kids 5-8ish a $1 a bag seems like a lot of money.
@Kidsandliz I assume you mean pay kids aged 5-8ish and $1 per 30 gal contractor or lawn bag, not pay $1 for 5-8 gum/monkey balls per bag. I ain’t that rich. lol.
@Kidsandliz This is the device. There are modifications and multiple picker versions.
@mike808 yes pay kids to pick them up off the ground. I use big paper garbage bags. Would take about 10-15 bags. Tree wasn’t full grown. And the stuff that landed on the moss I could rake most of it up. It was the stuff that was in the grass I couldn’t. Kids would race each other to see who could do the most bags and beat the other kids in that. I once had a kid pick up 2 bags on her own, ring my doorbell and asked to be paid.
No longer live there so no longer my problem.
I’m about to have to make the same decision as I have an old beautiful sugar maple that’s going to have to come down (7b zone).
It’s hard to say without looking at the space tho.
@mml666 Yeah I’ll take one of those. Can you deliver me a mature one that already has a number of leaves?
@Kidsandliz No need. They are very easy to grow. Just dig a shallow hole and drop in a bunch of dollar bills, in whatever denomination you want to grow.
Be sure to water the area after you plant it. You don’t have to soak the ground - just as quick spritz from the hose to wet the upper soil.
Once done, PM me your address and I’ll stop by one night to oversee your work.
Baring any problems, in 2-5 years you should have your own healthy money tree.
Our family tree is full of nuts.
Get a fake tree. It will still provide shade, by you won’t have to worry about infestations or trimming chores. You’ll have beautiful green leaves year-round!
/image artificial yard tree
https://www.eventdecordirect.com/catalog/huge-26ft-tall-cherry-blossom-tree-permanent-install-custom-colors-available-p-13504.html
@medz And it will look like crap after ten years of sun exposure and you’ll be paying another $6500 for a replacement.
@Limewater Worth it. How much time and money would you otherwise spend over those 10 years trimming, raking leaves, watering, and ultimately paying someone to cut down and remove a dead/infested tree?
@medz Hmmmm… In the last seven years that I have owned property with trees, I’ve spent about $1000 having two trees removed that should have never been planted where they were in the first place. I’m pretty sure those were planted by the home builders.
Otherwise, I’ve probably spent another $800 on trees that I’ve planted, including fertilizer. I pick trees favorable to my local environment, preferably native.
Watering is cheap, and once a tree is established you don’t really have to do.
I don’t trim my trees any more than is absolutely necessary.
I guess I do have to rake a bit, but it would take a lot of raking to be worth $6500, and I don’t expect any of the trees I’ve planted to live for less than twenty years.
Trees are great. Lawns suck, but trees are great.
@Limewater You can find them for much cheaper. I saw an artificial palm tree on alibaba for $200-$600.
@Limewater @medz
People spend money on that?
I have only trimmed a couple of limbs out of trees due to them being too low to the point that I hit them when I go under the tree with the riding mower. That is also my go-to method to ‘rake leaves’. Watering is what happens when it rains. If not, the rain barrels I have will supply all I need.
Dead trees… nope… thirty years here and I have only cut a couple down in order to build new outbuildings, put in the pool etc.
Guess I may just be lucky??
@Limewater @medz maybe get 300 of these:
(still under $6500)
@chienfou I hope those 30 year old trees aren’t too close to the house. They will eventually die and eventually fall on your house. That’ll only add to your costs.
@medz not too close, and more likely to go away from the house due to prevailing winds. Plus I will probably be dead and gone by then.
@Limewater @medz
Sounds like an indoor tree.
@Limewater
Astro turf and a leaf blower. Problem solved. I’ve had a couple of neighbors who have done that (I had mostly moss in the same neighborhood).
@Kidsandliz That’s an idea, but I don’t want a fake lawn any more than I want a real lawn.
What I really want is for the rest of American society to adjust their preferences to match my own…
@Limewater Cement patio surrounding your house? Rock gardens grow weeds so that would be out.
@Kidsandliz I actually just want plants that are not a lawn. Neighborhood restrictive covenants require a lawn, though, at least in the front.
I love plants and I love trees, but lawns are just work and expense for the sake of work and expense. And if you do a good job, your reward is more work and expense.
@Limewater So do they dictate how much of the front yard actually needs to be a lawn of grass vs a “lawn” of plant beds?
@Kidsandliz “Beds” are just as bad. Landscaping sucks. I don’t like any of it. I really need to just live in the woods, but we need to stay in a good school district with a short commute, so this is the price we pay.
@Kidsandliz @Limewater
Xeriscaping? (Is that the right word?)
@Limewater I’m with you on yard work. I like looking at pretty yards but do not want to waste my time doing gardening, yard work… in my opinion it’s like laundry, housecleaning, dishes, washing/cleaning out cars… endless tasks that I hate. And have to do. At least occasionally.
@f00l @Kidsandliz @Limewater
Basically, yes. That’s generally the term in arid places, hardscaping in other places.
That’s what I’m shooting for. A lot of different hardscaping with little grassy sitting areas and pathways around some garden beds (kinda more English garden style).
@Kidsandliz
Not if you douche them with Roundup!
@medz then hello non-hodgkin’s lymphoma…
@Kidsandliz no statistical evidence of that especially given this application wouldn’t constitute the type of long-term exposure that may present any complications.
/giphy science!
@Kidsandliz @medz
I’m not sure that, regarding newish medical issues of chemical exposure and potential or possible dangerous consequences, any quick perusal of internet results yeilds science.
@f00l @medz I have follicular non-hodgkin’s lymphoma and have had significant exposure for years. Of course a testimonial is not science and not predictive of anything. An example of an unmeasured compounding factor is that a mutated mouse virus can also cause that (along with getting breast cancer too - fairly close together - and I have had breast cancer on both sides, all 3 in a short period of time. I have had significant mouse exposure too). That also makes it harder to pin down cause(s).
The peer reviewed science is mixed. Many studies are retrospective or correlational which makes it harder to say anything definitively as well (and correlation does not mean causation).
Likely there are a combination of factors that need to come together to have exposure result in cancer. And it is just as likely that we have no clue what most of these factors are. I was not thrilled to see that honey nut cheerios (that I mix with regular cheerios and have done so since I was a kid and eat daily) has one of the highest ppm of glyphosate in it of all breakfast cereals. So nice to have had exposure that way for years too. Not.
@f00l @Kidsandliz Sorry about the lymphoma. I’m curious is spraying your rock garden once or twice per year would qualify for “significant exposure”.
@medz No idea. If you left it on your skin and clothes and didn’t wash it off you’d certainly get more exposure. Sitting on rocks with dried stuff on it might count. If you inhaled a bunch you’d get more exposure. Science is shaky on that as there is a fairly long lag period between exposure to bad cancer causing crap and most cancers.
@Kidsandliz @medz
If one wishes to avoid weed growth in a rock garden, there are non-environmentally-hazardous barrier methods that supposedly work well.
They deprive would-be-weeds of the needed sunlight exposure. And supposedly don’t mess much with water absorption into the soil after rainfall.
So I hear. (I don’t know nuttin’.)
Ask any landscape or garden shop for more info.
No need for Roundup or weeding I would think.
Some people around here xeriscape. Sometimes even in divisions with stupid rules and HOAs. I certainly prefer that look to that of lawns that look nice but are never used for anything except looking nice.
Xeriscaping looks great and is (I think?) close to zero maintenance.
@f00l Yeah, I’ve always put the weed-proof mesh carpet thing down UNDER the rocks, but the issue is the rocks will start to accumulate dust, dirt, crushed leaves, and seeds atop the rocks and stuff starts to grow in there after awhile.
Edit: I reckon if I raked the rocks every so often to move stuff around, it might help…
@Kidsandliz Got one of those pump sprayer things for dandelion killer. I needed to refill it, but I guess I didn’t have all the pressure released and I got a face-full of poison. I could taste it for awhile after that.
@medz yuck…
@Kidsandliz @medz
@Kidsandliz @medz I make sure part of my put-it-away routine is to let the pressure out fully. I forgot once and it cracked in the heat under pressure in the garage and leaked. Sorry about the mouthful of herbicide.
/image concrete tree
I know nothing about arborist stuff.
A thought, tho:
If you own the property:
Who not plant 2? One fast growing so that there will be a real tree there soon.
One slow growing that might be around a very very long time?
I planted an ash about 10 years ago. I’m a little worried that about the time it’s tall enough to provide the shade I planted it for, I’ll have to take it down.
My river birch is growing well and looks nice. The red leaf maple is doing well also. Pussy willow “shrub” is now blocking the satellite dish on top of a two-story roof.
@walarney if you are on the east coast take the ash down now.
@CaptAmehrican No, west coast. Been outside this week planting a laurel hedge. Noticed my ash is full of robins. Hopefully that’s the only thing it’s ever infested with.