So I became a juror..
28I initially planned to take some days off during our slower summer days. The previous Friday and Monday made for a long weekend. Before I took Friday off I’d mentioned in our Slack that I’d never been on a jury before or even been selected. Unfortunately, a Jury Summons in my mail had other plans.
I’ve never served on a jury before, so Monday comes and I think I’ll show up in whatever and the chances of me getting on would be slim. I’m very early like an hour earlier. Required time 8:30am… I got nervous I’d be late so I was awake at 5:00am and start getting ready. I don’t mess around with Dallas traffic and wanted to get to the spot and parked with no trouble so I leave at 6:30am. GPS gets me there with minimal traffic within 15 minutes. So I’m standing in a line full of hemming, hawing humanity who are equally as annoyed with the prospect of a lost day which resembles an airport check line to get in the front door where they have you throw everything into a plastic tub and walk through a metal detector. So in goes two sets of keys, wallet, phone, a book to read in case of a wait, and a water bottle. Nope, sorry had to throw that bottle out. So in goes two sets of keys, wallet, phone, a book. Fine, they have a snack bar right there I can get water there.
The line moves fairly quickly I’m pressured to get all my stuff out of the tub quickly as they’re getting people through the line. So I scoop everything out and find a spot on the floor to reassemble myself on display for the various law enforcement to look at me like I’m a weirdo.
I get everything put away and wander into the snack bar… nope too busy it’s 7am and I need to figure out where I’m going first. I have no idea where I’m going so I follow some other equally lost people to the third floor and we wait in line. The line moves slowly, as I turn the corner it’s a line for computers. Eventually a worker comes along and says “hey uh if you filled your info in online you just go in.” Sweet! People spill out of line and a make a B line for swiftly filling room full of chairs like we’re kids picking seats for a school presentation. Eventually, a Sherriff comes through and says “Is everyone in the right room?” I dunno, I guess I am? “Did anyone get an email that says you need to go to X floor?” People look around confused. I check my email on my smartphone. Yup there it was literally hours after I’d filled in my “sure I’d love to attend a jury selection” after have no choice because I’d waited too long to opt-out. I only check my mail once every two weeks. Usually, there is nothing there for me to care about.
So, I head up to the 5th floor. Luckily, I’m earlier than most of the other people just figuring out they had an email so I walked into a hall with hard wooden benches and claim my seat as people start wandering in to find seats. Look at my phone 8 am, nice any minute now I tell them “I don’t wanna” and go home.
1 hour and 30 hard wooden bench minutes later…
These benches aren’t the good type to read so that’s uncomfortable having my neck craned downward. Check my phone (oops forgot to charge) I’m at 14% so I need to go easy on that. I content myself with watching the various people coming in or walking around. Plenty of older people and suited lawyer types walk in one door, then into another door then out of the hall, then back in. Finally, a sheriff opens the double doors and tells us “if we hear our names to come and get a number card then sit back down!” Several minutes and people getting up and sitting down later I hear my name “Damn they got me.” I get up to get my card, it was #29. I turn around and I see some rat had taken my seat… So I pick up my book from the end of the bench where it had been pushed aside from seat saver to “this is my seat now.”
We sat or stood, if you were unlucky enough to be me and have your seat stolen, for another 30 to 45 minutes or an hour maybe? The door opens again “sorry folks the defense wants to ask for a number shuffle so we’ll need those cards back. We’ll take them back and reissue them.” A collective “ugh” could be heard through the crowd of more than 100 people. Sherriff disappears. A few minutes later a judge steps through the door and explains the situation to us and why they’d want that and tell us why jury duty is important. Throws a few jokes at us and she’s pretty fun actually “sorry we aren’t just sitting back here getting pedicures and drinking Starbucks or anything thing this has a legal reason.” Alright. Finally the sheriff comes through again and starts calling names again. And I heard my name again. By this time I’d slumped down on the floor waiting. Not sure if you’ve sat in a courthouse waiting floor before but it’s only slightly more comfortable than sitting on rock-covered ground. I haul myself up and grab my number: #18 I think ok well I’ll be earlier in the line or something so we’re ok.
45 minutes later 75 of us get called into the courtroom to pack it in elbow-to-elbow and masks on. I got a seat sweet! “the rest of you all can go home!, thank you for your time and attendance!” Damn, I missed out twice. Unlucky. We’re introduced to the Prosecution and the Defense whom are standing still. In walks the judge as we stand up. She tells us how things work and that we’re going to be questioned by the various lawyers so they can pick who 12 jurors and 2 alternates. The crowd looks around likely thinking the same thing I am: “what are my chances?” So Prosecution starts off telling us a vague idea of what the case is about. #15! how important is evidence in a case?" They call us by number only and it reminds of being in bootcamp, #63 previously you’d said would need to hear from the victims in order to make a determination. #18 what is assault with a deadly weapon mean to you? And on it went. Then it was the Defense’s turn to have at us. #59 previously you’d say you’d be biased based on this…" #38 If you don’t talk we’re going to pick you so you might as well give us something to work with. We don’t bite. #18 “Same thing you all need to talk or I might end up picking you.” “I say I understand…” but I’m thinking “damn, I was really hoping my bright red slides, short and Meh t-shirt would be enough for them to decide I wasn’t their guy.” It continues for a while until the defense was finished. We retire outside into the now empty hall to and are told to wait again. By now my back is tired and, my neck is tired, my butt actually hurts so everything was uncomfortable. They come back out sometime later and pull us back in. And they start pulling numbers. Number #18… “dammit.” I join the others chosen in the juror’s box and I sink thankfully into a comfy chair. We’re talked to by the Judge some more. Then they inform us we have to sit on the wooden benches rather than the comfy juror seats due to covid protocols. Oh no, my body screams as we’re sat 2 to a bench section. We’re then led to the back to our deliberation room and given some instructions about how to enter and exit the room, don’t talk to anyone especially the various legal teams or witnesses, families, etc that might be there and we’re led to lunch.
Lunch
We assemble downstairs and are told it was the first day they had the cafeteria running so it’s slow and short-staffed. So I buy a grilled chicken breast, a scoop of potato, and a scoop of rice with cool ranch Doritos and a Dunkin’s bottled iced coffee. $12. What? Lunch isn’t provided? Well damn, that sucks. I’ll need to bring mine tomorrow. I seat and eat quietly for the hour and then we reassemble and are escorted back to our deliberation room to wait.
We’re escorted back into the courtroom where the prosecution and defense finally explain to us what their cases are about in a broad overview. Then as if to end on a cliff hanger the Judge says “alright we’re going to break for a day come back tomorrow at 8 am…don’t look up any information about this case, don’t talk to anyone friends, family, no notes just come in and be ready to listen tomorrow.”
Day 2
The rest proceeds as you might think. The prosecution parades in various witnesses, experts, officers, and so on to show the case being presented. If you’ve seen My Cousin Vinny or Law and Order then you basically know how it works. Just generally less theatrics, they trade a few barbs and the case isn’t solved in one day. The Defense lawyer cross-examines them afterward each time. Day 2 is easier except for the benches. When we break we’re escorted to the back to sit in our room. The Judge wasn’t kidding sitting and listening to various medical reports, experts, pictures of blood, etc really takes it out of you. Each juror is simultaneously on the verge of falling asleep and intensely interested. Medical damage run-downs are obviously the more boring part but it does serve to show the extent of the damage down, the bodycams, CSI photos, and narrative is much more interesting. Lunch is… almost three hours? Some Jurors began to speculate that maybe they were working out a plea deal? See, during the trial, the prosecution and defense/defendant are looking directly at us (which is a little unnerving at first). They’re likely looking to read the room and see if we’re buying what they’re selling us. To see who was shocked by what info may be to see who and what if anything some people might have looked up. One Juror suspects that the Defense lawyer is looking at us occasionally from his desk to see where he and his defendant’s case sits. Ok, back to the deliberation room --> We pushed the call bell (maybe they forgot us?) and the Sherriff lined us up and marched us into the room where it turns out to work was being done that didn’t need a Jury assembled but the case continued. More witnesses, evidence, and so on. We ended a little earlier than yesterday’s 6 pm.
Day 3
Same as the previous though the witnesses and experts become more sparse. The picture for both teams is becoming a lot more clear. We’re introduced to a small twist in the story via the Defendant which is related to possible racism against his client and one of the previous witnesses. Everyone on the Jury is thrown a little bit because this wasn’t mentioned earlier.
We have a couple of breaks one break for lunch same as yesterday. Then something odd happens. We break from lunch and are marched back in the Prosecution rests then the Defense rests immediately upon us sitting down, so we got back up and got sent back to the deliberation room. To wait a few minutes.Then the Prosecution and Defense are allowed to close their cases. Essentially reaffirm their cases and put bows on them albeit with more emotion than the first time around. Then we’re brought back in where the Judge explains to us that we cannot discuss the case amongst each other. From minute one you are not allowed to discuss anything from the trial with anyone even jurors. No writing anything down, no writing down questions, nothing. You sit and listen and gather information, each lunch and talk about anything other than the case in your little room. The Judge gives us instructions, picks a Foreperson (person to deliver the verdict of our decision) and discusses the case and we lock our phones up. They then bring all the evidence they can pictures, recordings, videos, etc for us to deliberate about.
It was a madhouse, of theories and what-ifs and I want to know about X and such. It went on for a few minutes. People want to know about the racism part. People want to know about one of the shady witnesses. Was it a drug deal gone bad? But some of us have to reign in the questions because we can only work with the facts we’re given. There is no more coming. Some people are troubled talking some people feel uneasy making a decision with so much but at the same time so little information. Holes are plenty in the case. I’d say we deliberated a good bit before we all collectively decided to land on guilty for both issues in this case. There was a sort of quiet “welp, that’s it.” and we got marched into the court. The foreperson stood and delivered the news. The last part was the Defense lawyer required all of us to deliver a “guilty” decision to make sure we all felt the same. That was unsettling because for the first time I felt like everyone’s eyes were on me including the person whose life was in some part in my hands. We did that twice and the Judge told us to go back and wait as she wished to talk with us as sentencing was carried out today and we weren’t part of that.
Our phones were unlocked we were provided sheets that claimed out Jury Duty hours and such. The Judge stepped in to thank us for coming in and tell us that they’ve been having problems getting jurors and she used this time to sort of “life the weight” so to speak from us as it wasn’t an easy decision for any of us. Then she invited in the Lawyers from the Prosecution and Defense so we could ask some simple questions or anything. This part was the most interesting because we could ask about some procedures that happened and why and so on. Then just like that, a room full of people of various races, ages, and backgrounds handed back their Juror badges and I wasn’t Juror #18 anymore, I was Targaryen again. We walked out of the back into the waiting hall with a last goodbye or nice to meet you to spread out amongst Dallas county again.
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If anyone has any questions about Jury duty or whatever let me know I’ll try and help.
@Targaryen
Ok. Some serious and non-serious q’s (I do understand this was a serious case, and that you jurors treated it that way):
How much did your butt hurt by the time you were done?
And what rough percentage of the total
personal time spent was incredibly boring?
I commend you for doing this btw.
How hard was the making of your personal decision?
Were you engaged enough or convinced enough that you tried to be quite persuasive toward others?
Since there were so many story snd evidence holes, did you feel like your decision was a kind of gut guess (possibly quite uncertain, but what choice did you have other than to make a decision based on information given?);
or did you feel more confident about the outcome?
Thx for this.
@f00l Good morning, err well that’s when I say this anyway.
Regarding my butt my and back were both pretty sore by the end of the first day. The subsequent days there were just a little uncomfortable as the benches inside were the same but we didn’t spend nearly as long on them and we occasionally got to get up and sit in better chairs in deliberation room and what not.
The decision was the hardest part. It’s likely why they tell you “don’t look up anything, don’t talk about anything to anyone even jurors, don’t write anything” because you want to make the decision for the people involved in the case correctly and a little bit for yourself as well. You do in some part have a person’s life in your hands. We’d deliberated for a good couple hours I feel like. We all kinda wanted to make sure for ourselves we were doing the right thing. For me, it came down to a handful of facts through pictures. It’s difficult to get everyone together at first because there are little sub conversations happening around the table. A big part of the problem was that the victims didn’t wish to testify and the defendant didn’t want to testify either. So a large source of the holes was due to that. I didn’t persuade, we went around the room and asked what their issues was so each person at least had a chance to ask their question about the case so no one was left out which was nice. You’re trying to weight the State’s evidence and see if their case charges are true. Which is why they have the things like the various levels of assault because their evidence might not be able to fit in the highest one but one level down they can prove their case. At the end they gave a sheet of paper that had the charges and “is the defendant guilty of the state’s charges or not guilty.” There’s no option for a lesser option it’s essentially did the prosecution prove to you (us) that the person is guilty?
For my first time I even felt a bit remorseful but I guess that’s why they have that discussion at the end so you can ask questions of the lawyers and Judge. Like a mini-therapy session because the things you might see can stick with you a bit.
Wow…I was selected for a July 6th trial but had to call in the night before. I called too early on the 5th but the recording said all jurors had to report
. When I called later thar night the recording said all jurors for the 6th were excused 
. I was relieved but even more so after reading this!!!
Thanks for doing your part. I would have if I had to.
@llangley Honestly, the first day was the worst I thought it confirmed all the stuff I had read about it. I was various levels of engaged through. It wasn’t bad some of it was putting me to sleep I hate to say knowing that it was it was someone life or injury that was the source of my getting sleepy but the whole process was interesting.
Every time I’m called for jury duty, I tell myself there should be a better way for the whole process to be handled. The jurors’ time, comfort, self-esteem seem to be the last thing on any of the court personnel’s mind.
But the jurors’ seem to me to be the most important cog in the whole machine, since they purportedly are the ones to make the final determinations.
And the pay? Right. I assume all the legal people involved are payed by the hour. More hours = more pay.
And I agree, there is always the feeling there is more information available to help with the Guilty or no, but they withhold that and then expect an accurate verdict (or do they?)
Other than the perfunctory “thanks” you were given, was there anything that transpired to make you think your presence was REALLY appreciated by anyone there?
Incidentally, I imagine the court (as a whole) got a cut of your $12. Fair? And if they didn’t allow the water bottle, they probably also would have disallowed a sandwich. Movie theaters and the court system apparently have learned from each other.
</cynicism>
@phendrick Well the way it was explained to me was that they have to call so many people because a lot won’t show, or they’ll simply nope out of the process when they get there. We had 75 I think in the courtroom at the initial questioning and they eliminated people fairly quickly. They try to get people out of biases fairly quickly. I didn’t count but it should like between 10-20 people biased out, a couple college student exempted and so on. Then they also have their own method of crossing people off the list between the prosecution and the defense as well. 75 get whittled down pretty quick. A lot of “so with/out X you couldn’t give us unbiased verdict. We need you to open minded and fair… so you can’t give us that?”
Pay I got a little bit not enough for missing a day of work but definitely more than I spent on lunch, gas, parking etc. Luckily, we get paid for jury duty but I can’t imagine other people having to work with it.
The Judge was really emphatic about the process, she told us about the groups she works with trying to get younger people involved in the process by going to schools and talking. So she seems honestly appreciative of the time we spent which was nice. I mean I’m not a regular so I don’t know if that’s normal but she and the lawyering teams were nice and helped us with questions that was good for me. They could have just the paper in our hand and said see ya!
I’m guessing there was a problem with water bottles and keychain bottle openers as a couple Juror had to throw them out or bring them to their car but the people running the front door detectors were contracted security. Our lunches all made it through without too much problem or Day 2 and 3. Plus by the second day we had our Juror’s badges so I suspect that might had something to do with it too.
your problem started when you didn’t “knock on wood” after your comment in Slack
@mbersiam That was probably it. Didn’t even think of it.
I was selected in June to sit on a jury for a federal case in Illinois. Lasted an entire week. Very interesting.
@ShandaSunshine Nice.
I’ve been called a handful of times.
Got dropped a few times when I was an EMT employed by the city since I knew most of the cops and deputies. Even made it thru the selection process once and was the foreman (I think because I actually wrote a shirt with buttons…). Pay sucked ($10 a day and $.20 a mile round trip) if I remember correctly. Got called up for a federal jury duty last year but due to COVID that got cancelled.
Always felt that It was a duty I was happy to take on since I would want a jury that was competent and willing if I were ever on trial.
Much like being an extra for a movie, I found it interesting and enlightening and would gladly do it again.
@chienfou I’d like to be an extra on a movie one time just to see what doing that kind of stuff would be like.
@Targaryen
I was an extra in Tim Burton’s Big Fish. It was very cool!
@chienfou Oh really where at?
@Targaryen
I’m in the auction scene for the town of Spectre, and at the church grounds for the funeral scene.
Daughter was in a couple of the crowd scenes for his sports escapades…
Kept hoping I would have a chance to talk to Marion Cotillard, since my heritage is French and I’m fluent, but alas it never worked out…
@chienfou I’ll have to watch again then.
@chienfou @Targaryen
That’s so cool, being a extra in a movie is one of those “neat experiences” that I had never thought about doing. Must be fun to rewatch those scenes with the family!
@Lynnerizer @Targaryen
Yeah, it was great, trying to catch a fleeting glimpse of yourself or your daughter on the big screen.
If you are at all into movies, I would highly recommend being an extra just to see the process happen. There’s a lot of standing around doing nothing, waiting for the scenes to be set and shot, sometimes multiple times. But it was pretty cool, and we ate very well. They were long days, often on set before daybreak for makeup and wardrobe. We got paid minimum wage, and we got a W-2 at the end of the year. So I guess since I got paid I can add “professional actor” to my resume!
@chienfou @Lynnerizer @Targaryen I’ve been an extra, and can recommend the experience if you think it’s fun to see how movies are made. But bring a book or make sure your phone is fully charged. There will be a LOT of sitting around for most involved. If they pick you to drive a vehicle or something you get to do more. And you’re correct, there was good food. They fed us breakfast but then the caterers packed up and left for the next location and we were on set until about 2 pm so that kind of sucked because they said “we’ll be leaving soon so you can just get lunch afterward.”
I guess the pay was minimum wage, but it was clocked for the full day and we got out early so it worked out to a bit more.
This was last year. One thing that stuck out was the COVID czar. We had all done lots of COVID tests beforehand so at first they said we didn’t have to wear masks while we waited, but after a couple of hours the COVID czar walked in and had a hissy fit so they had us mask up unless we were actively eating or drinking like we were on a plane. After that that guy would walk through every 15 minutes and if someone didn’t have a mask up over their face he would grab a staff member and whisper to them while pointing at the person and make that person tell them to put on their mask. The way he operated made me think he must be a blast at parties.
It was neat to see the crew work. You could kind of tell who was in from L.A. and who was local, who had been doing it forever and who was trying harder but clearly newer, etc. And though we were told not to talk to the stars (it was ok if they talked to us, but don’t initiate conversation/bother them) they did come in and socialize and were all very cool.
I’m still waiting on my movie to come out. I should probably check on it.
@chienfou @Targaryen my hugh school psychology teacher used to talk about his dad’s hand being the one that comforted the character in “Prancer” when she was in the church. There was a whole story about his parents being extras in that movie
@chienfou @Lynnerizer Yeah why not you can definitely add that to a resume I think.
@chienfou @djslack @Lynnerizer Unfortunately I don’t think there is a large call for extra in Dallas too often, sadly. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong spots though. That might have to be my next thing.
@djslack @Lynnerizer @Targaryen yeah, that was back in the days when I was still subscribed in a newspaper and I read it routinely. I saw an open casting call article on the front page of the paper, then made the follow-up calls to make it happen… The fact that I worked 7 on 7 off on second shift also made it a lot easier for me to be able to fit it into my schedule without having to miss work.
They shot the Grass Harp around here locally also, but I wasn’t involved in that one.
@chienfou @djslack @Targaryen
They made the movie Mystic Pizza with Julia Roberts here in CT. Actually there was a lot of movies filmed right here in CT, I hadn’t realized there was so many, and pretty popular ones too.
@Targaryen
Found this for you… Though currently there is only an old listing for a casting call for a Latinx family for a print shoot. But the pay is pretty good: $500 a day for adults and kids. Plus additional money if your picture gets printed!
@chienfou I’ll check this out, pay isn’t a huge deal I just like the “hey I was an extra on a movie once” kind of a fun talking point.
@chienfou @Targaryen A coworker of mine was an extra once and was SO excited about it, but his scene got cut. Poor guy.
@Kyeh @Targaryen
To tell you the truth the reality of it was a lot more spectacular than the few seconds on screen
@chienfou @Targaryen Of course, yours was a major successful film; my coworker’s was something that was released directly onto VHS tapes and didn’t do very well even then. I guess he enjoyed the process, but was still disappointed that he wasn’t in the final version.
@Kyeh @Targaryen
I don’t think you can personally take ANY credit for the success of the film! Just luck of the draw I guess.
I can see how it might be a bit frustrating to have been part of a production that never really went anywhere.
@chienfou @Kyeh So I can’t forgo payment and ask for my name on the poster and maybe get invited to events with the stars then?
I have been called for jury duty … Here we call the night before and they dismiss you or call your name to attend the next day. I have been dismissed by phone a few times and made it in once. The chairs we sat in were those 1970s bucket plastic seats. I figured my phone was not going to last all day, so I brought my charger and plugged it in behind the soda machine
the morning case I was not called in, which really sucked because my brother in law was one of the lawyers on the case! We were allowed to leave for lunch. After the break, I was interviewed and, I still feel bad, but when they asked if I had anything going on in my life that would be a distraction, I told them we were running our 1st ever touch a truck fundraiser for the scouts. I told them I was the chief cook and bottle washer doing the coordination of vendors, marketing and the likes. Having never done it before and stressing over n number of people coming to the event, yes, I would be distracted. They looked at me like I had 6 heads. They asked a question, I answered honestly. If they didn’t like my answer, not really my problem, right? So obviously I was dismissed. Afterwards, I have never been soooooo sick in my life. Not sure if it was something I ate, stress of the day or what but man, oh, man. I have medical conditions that probably would have gotten me exempted, but in the grand scheme of things, it is part of the price we pay for living here.
My one question is: what do you do if you gotta peeeee?
@mikibell Yup that’s what all that was for to eliminate as many people that just clearly didn’t want to or couldn’t be there.
They simply said if we have to go we have to go we raised our juror card and we’ve have a short break. Someone did that, we Judge called a pause to trial we all got marched out and put into the deliberation room to do our thing. Then got marched back in and Judge made some verbal notations like “let the record reflect all 12 jurors, 2 alternates, prosecution, defense and defendant are present.” and told the State to continue.
Never got the letter for years then three years running, once only a few months apart. Since then a few times most recent last fall. I have been chosen 3 times and sat around most of the day a few times. Here the pay is $9 for the first 3 days and $20 or $25 a day afterwards. There is a strong push to donate that money to a couple local charities. Mileage paid but not parking. Sometimes you can show your juror paper and get a discount on parking if you park at a ramp two blocks away. I am lucky that my job pays me an 8 hours for each day I am on jury duty. I was able to bring lunch including drink with me. Food is provided in limited circumstances if you are chosen.
Last time, show at 8am, found out the juror numbers were assigned by the order you arrived. Excellent I thought. Low number get selected or sent home first. Nope. In first group to stay and wait for them to be ready for us. Everyone else, go to lunch and be back in 90 minutes. Guess who was still waiting? About the time the others are coming back, off we go to listen to the rules and answer questions. I manage to get picked even though I was 30 something down the line. Then long discussion about whether we were a large enough group make a selection. Next lunch and finally begin. Get nearly done and is too late to finish. Back in at 8 am for closing statements and instructions. Everyone agreed guilty first time voting. Ring the bell and find everyone else went to lunch. Well can we go too? Nope, have to stay in the room until completed. Can we order lunch? Nope. Some dumb reason about talking to us during deliberations. Umm, done and paper signed. Anyway nearly 2 hours later, about 10 minutes to file in courtroom and judge reads guilty and be released.
Everyone had to watch a movie about how the court works first thing in the morning. Afterward the judge and lawyers offered to answer questions if anyone wanted to stay. Everyone bolted.
I find the process interesting but there is a ton of wasted time. I know important things are happening (hopefully) but generally a long day.
@speediedelivery Yeah there was a good portion of lengthy procedural nonsense. For us normies, I guess it doesn’t make much sense for the legal types probably has certain reasons as well.
I have been in the Juror pool many times, got called several times. Then even made the 1 st cut. But then removed on the 2nd cut… hey you get paid just to show up… not much. Yes I liked that I got Cut.
@mycya4me Yeah it was pretty obvious a good bit of people didn’t want to be there lol. I mean I didn’t too but I guess into retrospect I’m glad I did. It’s an experience.
Were you at Lew Sterrett, Frank Crowley, or where?
I served at Lew Sterrett and at the old red courthouse.
It WAS an adventure!
Good for you for answering the call!
@Tadlem43 Frank Crowley? I think the one with the jail attached.
@Targaryen That’s Frank Crowley. On Riverfront (used to be Industrial), Lew Sterrett is the ‘justice center’, jail, in back of it. They hold some hearings at Lew Sterrett, but I think most of the actual court proceedings are at Frank Crowley.
You’re right…they have the hardest benches in the world there.
@Tadlem43 No justice for my ass that’s for sure.
Been called for jury duty a number of times. Made it to the jury selection phase three times. Each case involved a DUI. Each time when it came up in questioning that I wasn’t a drinker, I was dismissed. Defense attorneys taking no chances.
One nice thing here is that (prospective) jurors get free parking in the courthouse parking lot. Super close. Also it’s fairly common for folks locally to donate their jury pay to charity.
The jury summons age cutoff here is 70. Don’t know if that’s a thing elsewhere or not.
@lordbowen I think they had mentioned the age cut off as well. Yeah one of the first things they asked people was “what are you thoughts on domestic violence…” and that triggered a few people to basically nope out.
They stole your bottle of water, and didn’t provide lunch? Yeesh! (But I guess not terribly surprising.) It sure seems like there should be some better compensation than food service minimum wage without tips. Of course, I understand why the prosecution and defense aren’t allowed to give you tips, but…
In any case, thanks for sharing the story. I’m conflicted on whether I want to avoid the whole thing, or if I want to participate and make justice justicial or whatever (and otherwise pretend the system isn’t broken).
@xobzoo Just my opinion, but I think everyone should do it at least once. You get to see the process, and an inside look at the judicial system.
It’s not only interesting and educational, but our civic duty.
If I needed a jury trial, I would hope that there were fellow citizens that would be there to listen to both sides and make it a fairer hearing.
Yes, the system is broken, but sitting it out won’t help that.
And thank you for listening to my rant. lol
@xobzoo Yeah I’m guessing they’ve had issues in the past or something. Oh yeah, the Judge said that too “even if you see any of the lawyers out don’t even look at them and accept nothing even an open door because that could influence your decision.” I didn’t realize that was a problem jurors had.
Honestly, I’d say give it a chance once that way you know. One thing the Judge said was “we always need even-minded, reasonable people to show up.” And even if you’re critical of the system that’s fine, I am too it’s hard not to be when you see the news, you know? Really well as long as you can be open-minded and willing to give both sides a fair shake. The questions they ask at the beginning really give you an idea of what your case might be about. They ask some people their thoughts on “police involvement” in cases which noped a few people out but some and even a couple said “I’ll believe police” no matter what" and they aren’t on the jury I was on this time. Basically, you show up and answer the questions as honestly as you can or are willing to do and the prosecution and defense are the ones willing to either accept or not accept you as a juror. One lady answered as often as she could trying to get off and she ended up on the jury with me.
@Tadlem43 I agree. If I’m ever actually called up, I’ll certainly participate and do my best. I’m not sure how much I’m hoping for it, though. Somehow I haven’t managed to be asked yet. My wife has twice, but was immune(?) each time because of having a newborn. (it was a different kid each time, so really strange luck on the timing)
@Tadlem43 @xobzoo Exactly show up and if you can then do it, but if you miss out or can’t it’s fine they’ll still make due you know?
Wow, thanks for this. The one time I got called I was an alternate and the guy pled out, so it was just one wasted day.
I’m interested that the judge picked the foreperson. I always thought the jury voted or something.
@kostia Oh yeah sorry that might have been a mistake the jury definitely picked our foreperson. The attorney representing the defendant said he really tried to get him to plead out but the guy wanted a jury trial.
I thought you were going to say you were the infamous Juror 15.
@sjk3 Had to look that up is that an Amber Heard trial reference? I actually never watched any of that.
@sjk3 That is so funny! I watched the entire Depp V Heard trial on Emily Baker’s YouTube channel and I found it really interesting. Since Emily was a former Assistant DA, she broke down all the legal process stuff so it was easy to understand. I actually felt like I learned so much about the court and why lawyers do the things they do, lol!
However…I would have been a crappy juror on that trial because I felt like Heard was guilty and completely unbelievable as a witness as soon as she spoke on the stand, lol! I’m not even a huge JD fan (and their whole marriage seemed like a shit show on both sides), but his story was far more believable than hers to me.
@Targaryen…thank you for sharing! I have always wanted to be on a jury, and dutifully showed up each of the few times I have been called…but my number was never low enough. I likely wouldn’t get picked because I’d probably come across too eager, lol! But the weight of having someone’s future on the line is very sobering and I’m afraid that I’d be easily intimidated by other, stronger voiced, folks. Glad you didn’t experience that aspect!
@k4evryng @sjk3 I avoided most of it. It seemed like everyone was talking about it and I mean I like Depp’s acting but I don’t really care too much about rich/famous people fighting too much.
Also @k4evryng Thanks! I just did my part you know?
I’ve been called many times. When I lived in Tampa, I got a jury summons and I attended as required. When the clerk asked if anyone felt like they shouldn’t be there I walked up and told this very real story: “I just found my birth mom last night and I’m an emotional wreck. I can’t focus on anything but that”. She looked at me and said, “I’ve never heard that one before, you’re free to go”.
@capnjb But did you find your birth mom?
@Targaryen Heck yeah… it was awesome, but seriously… an emotional overload x 10. She actually owned a driving range in Fresno and I got to drive the ball picker there
I was in my late 20’s at the time. Sadly, she passed some time ago, but it checked so many boxes I didn’t even know I needed to check. I did get a really cool half-sister out of the deal, so that’s a win 
VAN MURALS! GROUND SQUIRRELS! SPIT CURLS! AWESOME!
@capnjb Congrats! So do you guys hang out every once in a while or exchange New Year’s cards?
@Targaryen My sister (I hate the term half-sister but it’s useful when explaining my story arc) has kids similar in age to my daughter so we try to do the birthday gift thing and Christmas exchange for them. We are on opposite coasts and life is busy, so a drop by visit really isn’t easily accomplished but we do chat online from time to time. It’s a unique relationship to be sure, but I’m super happy to have it
@capnjb Sounds nice, one day you’ll get to the point where you all meet or something sometime.
@capnjb Congrats on finding your birth mom, sorry she passed. That’s great that you got a sister out of deal, there’s nothing like the relationship between sisters!
@Lynnerizer Yeah… so I’m a guy
heh
@capnjb Lol
, I was thinking that could/might be the case. Sisters are still great just as I’d imagine it would be great to have a cool brother! Unfortunately MY (step) brother was also my molester, so him, not so much! 
@Lynnerizer Eesh. I’m sad to hear that. And don’t really know how to respond to things like that without knowing you. I do have an adopted sister that I grew up with and was also gifted with my half-sister later in life. I will agree that sisters are great
I’m sorry you went through what you did. I wish I had more sage advice. You seem to have ended up pretty awesome regardless 
Be good 
POKER! JOKER! NOT MEDIOCRE! AWESOME!
@capnjb Aww thanks! I try to stay positive. I don’t mean to make anyone uncomfortable by mentioning what happened, guess it’s my way of dealing. I spent way too many years keeping his secret and I like putting it out there that this kind of thing really does happen. And then there’s the fact that MOST siblings are one of the best possible things we could be given!
Always!
@Lynnerizer Never apologize for being honest
Everyone has a story hiding under their skin that not many people see. Coming to terms with it and being comfortable sharing that story can be healing. I spent a good chunk of this past year in the hospital with serious health issues. Almost two months sedated in the ICU… intubated… ventilated… pneumonia in both lungs… nearly died twice in surgery and almost lost my left arm to infection. I lost a third of my body weight and my chest looks like a jigsaw puzzle now. I learned how to walk, talk and swallow again in October. I’ve been humbled. And nothing embarrasses me anymore. I find that I’d much rather share my past than hide it. 
I’m loving life!
@capnjb
Always! 
Wow that’s great, it’s amazing how our bodies have the ability to recover even when pushed to it’s limits.
Your story is very similar to what my guy went through back in 2020, pneumonia among other things and complications almost took him from us. After almost 8 weeks on the ventilator he too had to learn to walk and swallow among other things. He’s in round 2 right now, fighting liver cancer while waiting for a transplant. You’re both extremely blessed to be given a second chance. He’s also loving life and is doing whatever he needs to do in order to make sure he’s around for as long as possible! I’m sure your family is feeling similar to me, extremely lucky, extremely blessed and super grateful! Prayers for a long and happy future!
Peace, hope and smiles.
@Lynnerizer Yeah, my girls went through a lot but they rocked it. I got to realize just how strong my wife is when she stepped up and took care of all the things I had been doing. I found the right girl for sure
I had my final surgery (ostomy reversal) at the end of April and although it looks like I was shot in the abdomen I’m so happy to not have to manage that anymore. 
Prayers to your guy in his latest battle. Bumpy roads lead to beautiful places 
@capnjb
Thank goodness all that stuff is behind you! Battle wounds keep it real and don’t let us forget where we’ve been, nevermind how much character they give us.
Do you guys talk often about what you all went through? I let my guy be the one who brings it up, he had a terrible time with that ICU delirium. He still thinks his hallucinations was reality. God bless you both!!
@Lynnerizer Ok… so ICU delirium is very much a real thing. I had never heard the term until your post, but, yes. Very yes. I was sedated for weeks and weeks and weeks and while my body stopped, my brain didn’t. It created a world with some pretty dark places that I lived in for a very long time. If you’ve ever awoken from a dream that felt so real and your memory of it is very clear, that dream probably lasted a minute. I had that dream for 45 days. I lost my wife… twice. My daughter. My dad. Neighbors. It wasn’t great. I thought I was on a hospital boat and in my few moments of lucidness I’d fight with the nurse telling her I’ve seen the water out the window. It was tough. When I started coming out of it, I had to walk back through all my memories and acknowledge that they couldn’t have happened and didn’t happen. That took some time.
Not sure how that manifested but I think I’m asking for a shaved ice machine for Christmas. I hope your guy works through this in his own way. It’s tough. Really tough. Just understand how real it feels and it’s difficult to unwind that. Fingers crossed for you all.
I can still remember all of them, and even though I know they weren’t real, I can still recall them as easily as I can memories of my daughter striking out the side, inning after inning. I’ve done a pretty decent job of compartmentalizing them, but they still creep into my dreams occasionally. The one cool memory I had was I was living in Tampa again and owned an ice cream truck and my pineapple ice was in demand
I’ve been called for regular jury duty a few times (starting right at 18, go figure), but this spring was called for grand jury duty.
Unfortunately for the county jury wranglers, I decided to be responsible and do a covid test the day before and it came up positive. I was dismissed and since they only would pull from the same pool the next month (and the first month of the duty cycle had no cases), that was the end of my grand jury duty this time.
@guyfromhawthorn We had one guy say he had covid last week and you could hear people shifting a bit around me. I’m curious how it works for bigger courts and cases though.
@Targaryen
I called in to the jury wranglers’ office and they said, “ohhhhhh. Yeah, we don’t want to see you. I’ll put this down for the judge and I’m sure they’ll approve it. Don’t come in.”
Sure enough, a week after I was supposed to be there, I got my card stating I was excused, but that they will likely call me back up soon
@guyfromhawthorn @Targaryen
While I have never been picked for grand jury duty, my wife has. She said it was really eye-opening to see all the cases come through that needed to be billed or no billed. Some of the no bill cases where those that the prosecutor knew they had them dead to rights but also knew that the plaintiff wasn’t going to show, particularly for small shoplifting cases etc
@chienfou @guyfromhawthorn Yeah the court system was busy before covid and I guess we were one of the first juries called after allowing juries back in so people have been waiting for their day in court for months.
Even though I have lived in this area for most of my life, registered to vote, drivers license, homeowner, etc. I was in my 50’s before my first and only experience of being called for jury duty. So I went in on the selection day, went through the process and was selected for duty in a trial that started that same afternoon. Swell.
. The prosecutor seemed kind-of green/bush league and I thought the defendant’s public defender just phoned it in.
While it was interesting to see the whole process first hand, the trial was a horrible experience. The case involved father-daughter molestation. The 15 year old victim was the same age as my daughter and went to the same high school. We sat through hours of forensic testimony about semen stains on blankets, police detective testimony, heart-wrenching video of the victim’s interview, etc. The whole thing, from initial jury selection to final verdict (guilty on all counts) went 8 days. It was draining.
The judge was great, and I was quite impressed by the (small town) police detective on the case - very professional and looked like a young Kevin Costner
I sincerely hope I fulfilled my civic duty and will avoid further service.
@macromeh Wow… that’s tough! I couldn’t sit on that kind of jury. I’m far too biased against child molesters and child abusers. I don’t think I could be objective. We’d have another trial to go to when they charged me with assault.
Good for you for going through with it. I’m glad someone could do it!
@macromeh That sucks the one I was on was an assault with a deadly weapon family violence. I can handle some violence and blood but rape, molestation and those kinds of things would be difficult. At least you did your part and hopefully it won’t come up again.
been called twice, about 10 years apart, Seated both times…joy…
both cases involved a term I hear on the news all the time, but didn’t understand until the first case:“possession of a weapon under disability”
nothing to do with being disabled, it simply means they have a prior Felony, and aren’t allowed to possess a firearm…
First case, in about 8, seated by 10, 12 released for lunch for an hour( on your own dime), 1 back in, final arguments, off to the deliberation room by 1:30, sent home by 2. He had a Pistol, and shotgun shells on him when he was arrested. no ammo for the pistol.
second case, April 2021, first or second trial they’d run since the beginning of Covid.
arrive 8 am,seated by 10a, Noon released for lunch for an hour( on your own dime), 1p back in, trial, arguments, blah blah, 3 pm, released early, b/c of incoming snow storm, start of Day 2 delayed to 10 am just in case.
we got about 1-2 inches of snow, but nothing major…
When I Got Home From Day 1(04/20/21 6:39p)
When I Left for Day 2 (04/21/21 9:22am)
When I Got Home From Day 2 (04/21/21 5:35pm)
Bonus Day 2 Morning Shot:
Day 2, show up at ten, more defense blah blah blah blah,
everyone finishes up by lunch. that day they take lunch orders and we get food delivered from a local eatery.
after lunch, they give us the courtroom to deliberate, everyone else clears out, ( still early days of emerging from lockdowns,etc… deliberation room they had wasn’t large enough to distance everyone properly.)
we ALL Vocally agreed that while he Probably did do what they said, they prosecutors did a piss poor job of proving it, and they have the burden…
we went through several rounds of paper secret ballots, and it was always 11-1. 11 of us agreed not guilty, as the state hadn’t proven it. when we would discuss, and take a voice ballot/ or show of hands, everyone was on board, paper draw, same 11-1. after half a dozen or so rounds, over the course of an hour or two, nothing changed…and we had to declare a hung jury…meaning new trial…
(and at this point, the defendant had already been in jail awaiting trial for over a year. He was arrested Jan 2020, just before Covid hit.)
@earlyre Crazy. Yeah that was the real take away “did the prosecution prove their case.” That’s the part you’re working with.
Juror only one time and that was on a civil case. Every time I was in a jury pool and sent to a criminal court for voir dire, I was stricken for cause( I was a prosecutor in Texas so defense attorneys always struck me ) can’t imagine why lol.
Fyi, you aren’t really selected for a jury in any courtroom but rather the first 12( or 6 if a misdemeanor jury ) that the prosecutor or defense attorneys can’t strike for cause or use preemptory challenges on are the jurors . Just so you know how it’s done ….
@AttyVette Thanks I appreciate the info. They mentioned the people in front to rows were in the “hot seat” or something. I didn’t really know what they meant by that. All in all it was an interesting experience.
I’ve been on jury duty once or twice. I remember one of the times was about a drunk driver and we voted him guilty. I also got called 6 times in two years ( I couldn’t believe it), I didn’t go to any of them bc I had just got done with surgery, had a blood clot on my brain and had a stroke. I would love to do a federal case (if I could actually go), I can’t show up drs appts on time let alone trying to get to jury duty on time (and with all my other medical conditions). But I did an internship at a courthouse for a year, half w/probation (bc that’s what my major)other half for a judges clerk. when the judges clerk was slow I would go and sit in on jury trials and I loved watching them. So if I could I would do jury duty any day of the week.
@Star2236 I actually kind of thought about getting in to law with communications degree. But I’d heard that interns and paralegals and such can’t a sort of hit and miss opportunity from online sources.
@Targaryen
I’m not understanding “ can’t a sort of hit and miss opportunity from online sources.”
@Star2236 Sorry I meant to say “can be a sort of hit or miss opportunity from online sources.”
@Targaryen
My internship was through a college professor (actually was given credits for it) and I was wanting to be a probation/parole officer. At the time the state was in a huge hiring freeze and has been for years. At the end they said if they got off their hiring freeze and I applied they would hire me but I got hurt at my job before that ever happened. I have a friend who’s a paralegal and took an internship after college that lead to a job that lead to a better job and so on. This was also 2006 right before the market crash so that could have changed things. But from what I learned at my internship is if you show them what your worth and make a lasting impression, they’ll want you back.
@Star2236 That’s good to know. A lot of people online have all these horror stories so it was hard to sparse all that out.
I had wanted to sit on a jury ever since I was in my 20s, just thought it would be super interesting. For a while I even tried going to school to end up doing something with law enforcement or working in the court system but I’ve always been a horrible student therefore I hated it!
I finally got called for jury duty sometime during my 40’s. Unfortunately I was recovering from surgery and I was actually homebound at the time. I would’ve gladly tried to get that status changed BUT I was already extremely familiar with those hard wooden courthouse benches and they were no friend of my fused hip! I knew there was NO way my poor butt would last more than a hour!
Thank you for sharing your jury duty experience, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your story!
@Lynnerizer Maybe you’ll have another chance? Who knows. No problem I’m glad you liked it, I also figured it would make for a decent bit of content to share with people and they could share their stories too, and here we are.
@Targaryen And here we are…
Everyone that says, oh I want to be on a jury. No, no you don’t. The most nerving two days of my life. The fate of one man’s life in my hands was terrifying.
You are right when you say that the quiet ones get picked. The case was a child molestation case. I tend to give the benefit of doubt on these since a friend of mine was falsely accused once.
My county has the highest conviction rate on crime against children and also dui’s. I don’t know what that says about the area but I digress…
It was painful to hear testimony from the victim. But eventually we decided on a guilty verdict. I was a holdout since there was some testimony we weren’t allowed to hear until after the verdict. It was held back for sentencing only. Afterwards we were told the defendant was also arrested on suspicion of possessing child porn. So yeah, I felt better about the guilty verdict but still I don’t ever want to do this again.
@ironcheftoni Yeah I’m glad I didn’t have to deal with a case like that. I can handle violence and pictures and what not but it would be hard listening to people reliving the traumatizing moments of their lives through rape/sexual assault/molestation etc and seeing evidence of that or having to decide someone’s possibly wrongly accused fate.
@ironcheftoni
You’ve got a good point! I’m one of those people who always said I wanted to sit on a jury. Now that I think about it I’m sure it was probably for the wrong reasons, after all, I was very young back then. I don’t think I looked at it from the correct perspective. Having someone’s life in my hands wasn’t my mind set and it most certainly should’ve been. I’ve got to think that most prosecutors and defense attorneys probably don’t pick young jury members. Even the most mature 20 something couldn’t have enough life experience. Right? Are younger people even called for jury duty?
About your friend being wrongly accused of molestation, that’s just awful! Having been molested myself, I never understood how anyone could lie about something like that. There’s just no excuse for that and it makes me so angry!
Thanks for writing all that! It was interesting, and you told a very complete story while doing the dance of not telling specifics you can’t share.
I was called up for jury duty for parish (like county) court and had to go in some years back, but I think my number was 75. I was let go by lunch the first morning as they had gotten everyone they needed before they got to me. I would have done it but I wasn’t looking forward to it as I knew it wouldn’t be enjoyable and the loss of pay would have hurt too if it went on for more than a day or two.
@djslack Thanks! That was the goal to kind of give an account of what it was like as just a person going through the Jury process never having done it before.
The pay thing is a good point I bet a lot of the impatience from people was due to the loss of hours, or lost days off as much as anything. We get paid here for it luckily.
Been called for Jury Duty many times, all but 2 excused after sitting around most of the day waiting in the Jury Room. Jury Duty was covered by the companies I worked for, so I never got to claim hardship to get out.
The last time, we got called into the courtroom, and they went thru the usual process … called 16 (12 plus 4 alternates) numbers to be seated in the jury box. After which the Judge asked questions, then the Prosecution, and then the Defense.
2 defendents, so 2 sets of Defense Attorneys. Pretty sure drug charges, but was open-minded.
Then jurors were excused by one of the 3, and someone else was called up. One and a half day of this before I get called up to the jury box. Couple questions and honest answers, and Defense kicked me … because I was White and Older! Wasn’t the first one kicked for that reason either!
So got the $15 plus mileage since LA County only pays you after the first day.
**** But that wasn’t the only time in the courtroom ****
Actually made it onto the jury years before (2004) for a murder trial. (Defendant reportedly choked and then drove over victim.) Firemen, Police, Coroner, and a witness all testified and identified the defendant (Firemen were driving up the alley and the defendant was driving the car towards them). This was over 2 or 3 days.
The next morning when we arrived, we were told it was a mistrial because the defendent’s attorney had some heart issues (insert any attorney missing heart joke here) and he was going to be unavailable for a long time. Thus, a mistrial.
Always felt bad that we couldn’t continue, especially after what happened to the young man who was the witness (he’d been in the car with the defendant). The young man was being held on a separate charge of auto-theft (so we would’ve needed balance that as well, but IIRC, they weren’t reducing his charges at all for his testimony). He’d been held in another jail, but got transferred back to the county jail without protective orders.
The defendant got out of his cell, wandered around the county jail for several hours before finding the young man and killing him.
The trial for this murder had them bring in a mock jail cell into the courtroom!
So if that lawyer hadn’t had his heart issues, that young man might have stayed alive. Regret that we couldn’t finish it.
But he was convicted for both murders.
FYI,
Our California Supreme Court recently Upheld his convictions.
@MarkDaSpark Wow… that crazy I can’t even imagine what hearing that must have been like. It makes sense now why there’s so much overlapping caution at the courthouse as well because people are still willing to escape or try something.
@Targaryen. Not just defendants, but family members (or others) willing to help them escape. Or attack/intimidate witnesses.
Closest I ever got was all the waiting and selection process, get chosen to be one of the jurors then lots of waiting in the juror room… Wait wait wait… “The defense took a plea deal last minute. You can go home.” At least it counted as serving and my name was off the list for awhile.
@medz The second day I walked in there was a large line of people showing up for another jury summons on another floor and the security at the front just sent them all home and took their sheets. They only got to wait in the front door line. Lots of grumbling then… but I went from maybe 5-10 minute wait to almost a straight shot in which was nice.