Planning ahead?
3Do you have your wishes known for when you die, or pass over as some people might say? What do you want to have done with your body? IF it was really THAT important to you wouldn’t you make darn well sure that you told your family, especially if you had made it clear who was, and who was NOT to get your property/homes?! How can someone who’s had several life insurance policies on himself, his children and even his grandchildren, and let’s not forget about the will, not be spicific about what happens to his own body?! I just don’t get it!
One more thing… In this day and age is it totally crazy for someone to be buried while still wearing their jewlery? I think it’s rediculous!
- 16 comments, 18 replies
- Comment
Some people don’t much care what happens to their remains.
I know I have told my family i want anyone who can use any me for organ donation first and then the leftover bits it doesn’t matter .
@CaptAmehrican ditto…my teenagers and I have openly discussed this AND end of life measures. I might be considered morbid, but if there is no quality of life left, I don’t want them wondering what I would want to happen or feeling guilty if they have to make a decision on my behalf.
@mikibell and that is so helpful (making sure people know) for so many reasons. I don’t think it makes it any easier in some respects though as your/our looming death will still be overwhelming. It can be hard, really hard, to be the one to make sure someone’s wishes are carried out if that means having a role in that person dying sooner than that person might otherwise might have. The conflicting emotions that go on when you are the one to make sure the person’s wishes are carried out can be very difficult to deal with both at the time and later (speaking from experience here). That should be talked about too - not just what one’s wishes are but the potential varied responses they might have to that. And others can blame you for making sure someone has the opportunity to request having their wishes carried out if they don’t agree with them (been there too, I talk more about some of this in my rather long post below).
@bleedmichigan is to blame for my lack of knowledge regarding multi-cultural winter holidays.
@mediocrebot would you like an explanation of multi-cultural holidays? I’ll trade you an Christmas IRK for a lesson
@mediocrebot someone needs to turn you off for this thread.
@Kidsandliz @mediocrebot
Why do you think this thread needs to be turned off? I think everyone has great things to say about a subject that WE are ALL gonna have to deal with at some point in time.
@Lynnerizer I think that @mediocrebot needs turned off. The snarky things the “bot” is saying aren’t appropriate in a thread like this.
I don’t much give a fuck. I can only assume you’re dealing with something though and if that’s the case I’m sorry.
I do hope I’ll be old enough my organs won’t be much use.
@unksol
Thanks! Yes, I am going through something, the death of my father in law. He didn’t really make things easy and in turn he has not been given any kind of services, or even a obituary. Just a creamation and I truly believe if it wasn’t mandatory it probaly wouldn’t have happened! Unfortunetly my husband and I had our hands tied on this one, it wasn’t in our power to handle any arangements. I’m okay with what hasn’t been done, its the emotional stuff thats tough, the anger I have with the lack of concern and the state that he left his wife (of 67yrs) in. Not enough money and a house thats almost ready to be condemed and torn down. Like bring in the wrecking ball!!
I’m in the DGAF group. I am a registered organ donor. But our family is slowly getting parked at the columbarium at the church. My parents and one of my brothers are there already. I guess I could bunk with him, if his ex is OK with that. If all the inside niches get filled up, they can put me in the garden. I don’t much care one way or another, I won’t be there.
Am also an organ donor. After that, it is either cremation (sorry about the lack of carbon sequestration) or donation to a local medical school for anatomy classes.
Keep your list (your will’s “cheat sheet” attachment) of banks, account numbers (checking, savings, 401k, IRA, investments), lenders and loan IDs (student, car, home, credit card), insurance policies and policy benefits, and real estate property in a safe place with multiple copies sealed and shared with trusted relatives and the executor of your will and successor trustees. Update the package every couple of years.
@mike808 Yes. Only in a safety deposit box is not a good choice as that gets sealed after someone dies.
@Kidsandliz
Correct on the safe deposit box. Also, since the bank doesnt know what’s in them, they’re not liable if the items go “missing”. Read the horror stories from banks closing down branches and just emptying and moving everything into bulk storage if you didn’t get your stuff out or claim the box (with a probate order) after the owner dies.
And forget about wanting multiple people to have access - everyone with access has to sign the lease at the same time in person.
The safe deposit box/vaulting is a money loser for banks and they are loath to do it - and make it the biggest PITA they can.
And data vault services are expensive because their customers are businesses. They also don’t die, and people do.
I eventually opted for a fire/data/burglary safe and instructions to drill it (and the safe company to call) when I die. The relatives and the lawyer have a sealed thumb drive (password protected - see VeraCrypt software) with digital documents and a cleartext export of my password manager). And a copy of the YubiKey I use for 2FA, mainly to access my password manager.
The password for each copy is unique, separate, and sent to a different person sealed along with the sealed packet. Each person with a packet has the sealed password for one of the other person’s packets.
Scan all your documents or get PDFs and put it on a thumb drive. Make copies for relatives, trusted persons. If you password protect it, make sure there is a way to get them the password when you die. And include instructions on how to use the decryption program in a non-encrypted plain text file. Note that electronics don’t fare well in fire and floods. Smoke damage is ahuge issue - the smoke particles mix with water (used to put out the fire) and become acidic and destroy the curcuitry.
@mike808 And add to that passwords to computers, phones, etc. not just files so people can locate important files and photos if you haven’t updated them recently and can find your contact list on the phone so they can pick through that and decide who to contact (or leave a list with contact information). Might want to leave the passwords with the attorney who drew up your will with instructions to only give those out after you are dead. Of course if your computer is full of, um, “interesting” files that might not be a good idea…
On safes
Fire safes are not designed for protecting electronics. Or burglary. And burglary safes are not designed for fire or electronics protection (called a “data safe”). For that magical combo, you’re looking at ~$1,000+ and about the size if a dorm fridge. Gun safes are not document or fire safes - they are burglary protection. So shop carefully to actually protect against that threat. They usually only protect against one and only one.
A starting point: safeandvaultstore.com
/youtube Dye the Safe Guy
Another important aspect of this is a living will and talking about this WELL in advance of when this would likely be needed. While on the one hand it is hard to have conversations like this when a family isn’t in the middle of a crisis (I know we didn’t want to hear about it when dad had that conversation with us about 2 years before he died), it is far worse having it when there is an active grief overlay (like what happened with my dad’s sister).
My aunt (dad’s sister) only told me she wanted to die at home (said I’d understand the conversation about death - she had stage 4 cancer and had stopped treatment, I have had 3 cancers on with no cure but a longer life span and and I had already gone through this with dad), didn’t tell her kids as she didn’t want to upset them (I encouraged her to tell them and her doctor; and we all knew she was going to die of her cancer unless a bus hit her first), didn’t tell her doctor - and he didn’t bring up hospice at home (and I fault him for not having a hospice of any kind conversation with her).
She was only brought home from the hospital a couple of days before she died and only because my cousin called me to tell me she was dying. I then had to be the one to tell my cousin what she wanted. That then hurt my cousin that her mom didn’t discuss that with her. She felt guilty that she didn’t know so that her mom could have spend the final several weeks of her life at home rather than just the few she was in the middle of active dying.
With my dad he had discussed assisted suicide around 2 years before he died (this was well before it was legal anywhere - he and a different aunt who also died of cancer at home belonged to the Hemlock Society). After he was in the hospital for 4 months, had a breathing tube in, had 2 hospital induced antibiotic resistant infections… I finally asked him if he wanted me to ask about assisted suicide. He wrote yes. So I asked a nurse to find out if the facility would allow this and let him know if they would help with that or whether he had to make “other” arrangements.
He wrote (some of this was 20 questions) that he hasn’t asked mom to ask as he didn’t want to put that burden on her (dad tended to do what others wanted even if he if this was at his expense); he didn’t ask since none of us had brought up his wishes and he didn’t want to upset us. I only asked because I knew how strongly he felt about this (I was not ready for him to die nor was the rest of the family even though he was). It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. And it caused family strife as I was blamed for his “early” death (by likely a couple of weeks only) by a couple of family members even though ALL of us knew what his wishes were, he was the one who actually made the decision after much back and forth, meeting with various people, a “cooling off” period, etc. and all of us were dancing around this anyway prior to me asking.
As a result make sure everyone, including your doctors know your wishes and have them in writing so that you don’t put the burden on one of your family members to “be the one” to initiate things. And, if you are capable of this at the time, you be the one to bring it up with the rest of the family and/or doctor (so s/he can bring it up with the rest of the family if you can’t bring yourself to do so - that was the problem in my dad’s case as he knew how that would upset us) so that you are the one initiating the conversation and not putting another family member in that position.
@Kidsandliz
You are SO right, the guilt can be overwhelming! In my family we made both of my grandmothers passing so much easier with the help of a morphine drip once we knew their time was here. No quilt, no worries. With my father in law things have gone VERY different. Not only did he hang on for a extra 2 years with absolutly NO quality of life, he insisted that he stay at home and refused any outside help other than a visiting nurse to come every 3 months and check his vital signs. This left his care on my husband (& myself), not even his 2 other brothers stepped in to help. That was because their mother, who is in early stages of alzhiemers w/dementia, told the brothers they weren’t getting either of the 2 houses their dad had built. I never saw people act like this although I have heard of it. My husband even breathed life back into his dad not once but 3 times, CPR is a automatic responce when a loved ones in need. I found myself wishing and praying for a quick, painless passing! God forbid I shared those feelings with my husband, he would say I was wishing his dad dead! Maybe I was, IDK? I was/am pretty upset about the fact that we’ve been tied to this dump of a house for the past 2 years. Especialy since we just bought a new, CLEAN, forever home just 4 years ago right down the street yet have not been staying there for the past 2 years while caring for both my in laws. What happens now? My mother in law is healthier than both my husband and I and she is 84! She’ll probaly out live both of us!! Of course she doesn’t want to go to a home, we hear it all the time. She doesn’t even realize the horrible, discusting state that her house is in. Since she refuses to flush the toilet she have no clue that you need to dump a bucket of water in to make it flush. Nevermind that the bathtub is ready to fall through the floor into the basement! …or the fact that there is no hot water in the kitchen. There is however a whole lot of love and a roof over our heads, unfortunetly the bills dont get paid with love…
Also on the “be prepared” aspect - if you have prepared a “how to access my paperwork and recover my passwords after I am gone” plan, it is critical that you sit down and go through the procedure so that when the survivors need to do this for real, they have practiced it and know what to do. This is especially critical when you expect them to run certain software or follow specific instructions.
It is practicing disaster recovery for yourself instead of for a company.
Remember, you won’t be there to answer questions or to help or guide them. Written step-by-step instructions printed out in their packets are working the best for me.
Do not put up a video on youtube! Derp.
I tried to create a free will online once, but you have to like pay somebody to file it somewhere or something…lame.
For my remains: donate organs and whatever is cheapest
For my money/stuff,100% Goes in this order if they’re still alive: spouse > kid > my siblings (split) > grandkids(split) > siblings kids(split)
Hardest part is deciding who will take care of our minor child if both spouse and I die before kid is grown…
There are more and more places throughout the country that allow for bodies to be buried without embalming or even a coffin. (yes, i know Jewish cemeteries have allowed simple pine boxes without embalming, but few others do.)
There are even ‘mortuaries’ who will help families with simple shrouds and making arrangements for these. In So Cal, there is place up in Joshua Tree.
So if you don’t want to hassle with cremation or donation there are other options if you seek them.
My father requested to be buried at sea (he was a Navy employee both active duty and civilian for many years.) He has repeatedly asked me if that’s okay, and I yes dad, that’s fine (he’s 90).
I wish families would not make an expensive production of this because most cannot afford it, and simple is better for everything.
When I go to wander the summerland awaiting rebirth, I don’t want my daughter to go into debt dealing with it all.
I have shared my wishes many times, especially this last year (so much family death), although I do not think they will be honored.
I requested a simple evening at a pub/bar where my friends and family can gather to drink and share happy memories. No need for laying me out for everyone to stare at and cry. One last hurrah
@tinamarie1974 Of course funerals are for the living and giving them what they need…
Our family is not big on funerals. Cremation. Then a life celebration at a later time that is convenient for all.
Lesson (that was already commonsense) from my in-law parent deaths - if you want to make your kids trustees, put one in charge. Never, ever make your kids co-trustees. Unless you wish to rip your family apart.
@RedOak In the same vein, I keep asking my dad to not leave the house 50/50 to my brother and me. I don’t want to be in business with my brother! Leave it to him… Whatever makes dad feel ok… But don’t make it so we have to agree with or buyout the other. I am in charge …ugh… And have authority over medical decisions, if my mom is unavail… Heavy stuff.
@mikibell I’d expect, if dad’s goal is to leave the house to you two 50-50, it would be relatively straightforward to add some language in the trust… (seems like an exceedingly common scenario)
“If one of my sons wishes to keep the home and the other would prefer to receive the home’s value in cash, an independent market value appraisal will be funded by the trust. The son wishing to keep the home would then buy out the other son for 50% of the appraised market value.”
“If agreement cannot be reached on the market value for whatever reason, the home will be sold and the net proceeds will be divided equally.”
I’d ask your dad if he really wants to potentially create a conflict situation. A well-crafted trust seeks to minimize conflict, even if in some cases conflict cannot be completely eliminated.
@mikibell in our case, one of the siblings tends toward more warm and fuzzy whilst another tends toward more analytical.
Our parents leveraged those tendencies by giving Medical Power of Attorney to the warm and fuzzy sibling and Financial Power of Attorney as well as First Successor Trustee (actually, Second, after the other spouse since both parents had their own trusts) to the analytical sibling.
And most importantly, everyone knows everyone’s role ahead of time - and has a copy of the trust.
@RedOak exactly… The being prepared part! My parents only have one child active in their life so everything is left for the big hearted, brainy kid to decide
totally a bone of contention with my mom… I don’t care about the 50/50, it is their money and I don’t expect a dime; great if I get it, but they worked hard for everything they have, they should enjoy it!!
@mikibell
I long ago lost count of the times I’ve said that to my parents. Especially when my mom (dad is now gone) says something like “I’m not sure I can afford that trip/whatever, I want to leave something to you kids”. “It’s your money, enjoy life!”
I am sorry for your struggle. My fil drove me batshit crazy earlier this year. He and his family never had these conversations! So when he was admitted with the flu (while having radiation treatments on his lung and a copd sufferer) I, his dil, had to discuss DNR and DNI with him. He made it through the intubation, but I struggled with balancing his wishes with not torturing his poor soul. He would tell the nurses he was still ok with the intubation or resuscitation …then when they would leave the room, he would say just let me go quietly…ugh. Told him, since HE told them it was ok, I had no say really (his daughter had poa) … I had to tell my sil to ready herself for this decision, which would have destroyed her. Finally, it was time and he did decide to let go, but man oh man, that stubborn old man made me crazy for quite awhile.
A good friend’s family is already set up for post parent death conflict - and both parents in law are still alive.
The in-law, fairly well-off, parents have a nice “family” cottage on an island where most but not all family spends time each summer.
There are three daughters and a son.
The daughters are all fairly passive about the future even if their husbands clearly see the future.
The FIL uses a “strong arm” managing family events. The MIL has Parkinson’s and is gradually heading down hill.
The son is clearly the FIL favorite and has 3 kids. The other siblings have 1 or 2 kids.
The trust says the cottage goes to the FIL grand kids in equal per kid shares.
The FIL wants the family to continue to enjoy the cottage after he is gone.
But this is clearly an untenable situation - the favored son will have the largest control. Everyone else, unless they “band together” and gang up, will be left in the cold.
What happens when major maintenance is required? How are property taxes and other routine expenses divided?
Since the parents have the wealth, a relatively straightforward solution would be to put the cottage in a trust or LLC and fund the trust with enough $ to maintain it. And include conflict language as well as beneficiary exit rules.
But the FIL won’t listen and the daughters remain passive. Heads in sand. Sad.
My family knows my wishes. They know where I want my body or ashes placed and even what music I want played at my funeral. When my husband’s mom died he and his brother were in their 20’s. (I don’t say mother-in-law because she died before we were married) His father held no funeral and no memorial service. There was no “gathering of the family” because his Dad said it’s a waste of money.
I’ve seen the hurt it causes when you don’t allow someone to grieve and have some sort of closure. Those two young men were never allowed a place a time to grieve and it has affected them for the rest of their lives. Several years later we were visiting at Christmas (as a married couple) and my husband was putting his coat in the closet when a cardboard box fell off the shelf. He told his Dad a box had fallen and he needed a stepstool to put it back up (couldn’t reach the shelf). His Dad told him “That’s just your Mom’s ashes - just toss it back up - damn thing is always falling down.”
I held him that night as he cried.
Do make your wishes known so they can be honored and remember that those you left behind need a time and space to grieve. Even if its tossing ashes into the ocean or burying them under their favorite tree.