Meh exchange this year???
10Is someone gonna plan a meh exchange this year? I would do it but I’m not good with that type of stuff. Other than that I got like 2 box’s full of stuff I’ve been saving all year and need to know if I should donate it or hold for the exchange? Not putting any pressure on anybody, if no one wants to plan it then we won’t do it.
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I’m down though a little nervous about getting ghosted.
I’m not sure how it’s handled here but I LOVE making boxes of stuff for people. Just ask @carl669! I still think I could’ve done a bit better with the orange theme. I really should’ve painted his box methinks. Do y’all use Elfster? I’ve seen the thread in the past but have been too unsure and busy to partake previously.
@sillyheathen we did do one with elfster! I believe @djslack ran the last one.
Unfortunately there’s always someone that ghosts… So it’s best to pick people that maybe actually chat in the forums? I dunno. Luckily there’s always someone that wants to give and not receive so they end up taking care of the ghosters.
@djslack @RiotDemon I’ve done exchanges with different forums and some require people to be active or have participated in others if they want to join.
@djslack @RiotDemon oh! Do y’all get to participate???
@RiotDemon @sillyheathen I did run one on elfster last year. Wow, does that seem like a long time ago now. It ran a bit past the new year because things just take longer than one would think.
We had a couple of issues with people letting their fellow mehtizens down. I think I documented them all.
There are a lot of readers who don’t post regularly on Meh who like to participate. It makes it hard to establish a participation level to qualify (although maybe I’ll just drop a hint, if you want to be in an exchange I would recommend getting active posting). I messaged everyone who didn’t sign up with their meh username and asked them to identify themselves. Most did, a few failed that check and didn’t make it any further. We have had participation in previous exchanges be a qualifier to do more than one box in the past. I only allowed one because I believe elfster only supported doing one (that might not be the case though?) And because it would keep it as simple as possible. I know it disappointed some people who are hardcore exchange players.
At least with elfster the real work started after the exchange boxes were supposed to be received. Running down people who had not sent, not received, or not posted on Meh (elfster makes this more confusing as I think some people thought posting a thank you on elfster was a completion). And then summoning the heroes to save the day for people whose sender ghosted them.
It’s an ordeal but rewarding to do. I had a great time overall, but I’ve got way too much going on to try to commit to anything like that this year. That said I would love to see it happen again, elfster or not.
@sillyheathen some Mehtizens stepped up for anyone that was ghosted. Still amazes me that people ghost…people suck sometimes but for every one that sucks, there are a dozen that step up.
@sillyheathen Also as @djslack said the initial work isn’t much - I think it took me (not using elster) maybe 3 - 5 hours tops to deal with applications, matching, sending initial emails… I agree that what takes far more time is keeping track of who posted their boxes with sending reminder emails, emails from senders who are being ghosted by receivers and vise versa…
@sillyheathen You can run it and those of us who have run it in the past can walk you though it, give advice, pass on the ghoster names…
@djslack @RiotDemon @sillyheathen I did it For the first time last year. It was enjoyable. I’d be glad to do it again this year
@cbilyak @sillyheathen
Yeah, I don’t understand that either! I really don’t understand how anyone could ghost someone else. Doesn’t everyone have that little voice inside their head that nags away at them when their actions go rouge? You know, a freakin conscious!!
For real, how on earth DO people live with themselves when they’re being a crummy human? I just don’t get it! 
As far as the whole gift exchange goes in general, I’M IN! I had a fun last year, it was my first time participating in something online like that. It was exhilarating! My favorite part was reading about everything in the comments, and the pictures, loved seeing the pics! (Just like a 2 year old child!
)
I think it would be great to have a gift exchange mid year, a nice little distraction from the heavy stuff that goes on in day to day life. Jus sayen.
@djslack @sillyheathen I participated last year. Since it’s Unofficial™ and I don’t work for meh, it’s fine.
Since it’s Unofficial™ that also means meh doesn’t back us up if something goes wrong, like jerks not sending.
I’ve run a handful of them here and used excel’s random number generator to match, taking into account some people didn’t want to send 3000 miles with postage costs. While all of us have encouraged a box that is a medium priority mail box, some people send half the contents of their attic and have much bigger boxes.
There typically are about 2-5 who ghost and a couple who send really crappy boxes. Some ghost sending, some ghost posting their goodies. Those of us who have run this keep track and send that info on to whomever is running it next.
As others have said, there are generally 4-8 people who want to send and not receive or do the exchange but want to send more than they receive. Those folks are greatly appreciated!!
@Kidsandliz well I’m happy to help out if needed. I definitely want to participate. I think maybe we consider a limit on participants and or previous exchange participation/activity in the thread?
@sillyheathen The number of people and boxes is manageable. I keep track of everything in a spreadsheet so that isn’t hard and keeps thing organized. It’s the nagging I hate. Cripes why sign up and then stiff people? Seriously?
@Kidsandliz I’m just not that kind of person so I’ve never understood. I like Elfster because you can chat with them anonymously and get to know them a bit better. Helps with building a box. We would have people complain that their matches weren’t talking enough even though it was a few times a week. Or people that said it was too much.
The ghosting just irritates me beyond belief though.
@Kidsandliz @sillyheathen Previously I had volunteered to run the next exchange or help someone run it. Last year, @djslack used elfster and it seemed to work pretty well and the list of the ones that ghosted have been passed on to me as well. I do like the suggestion of only allowing regular chatters on the forums participate. Not guaranteeing that would eliminate ghosts but hopefully keep them down to a minimum.
@djslack @ironcheftoni @Kidsandliz I’m happy to help if you want any to run it @ironcheftoni. I think between us we could absolutely make a go of it.
@djslack @ironcheftoni @Kidsandliz @sillyheathen
I initially had been ghosted by my first (2?) people last year and the person I was sending to was a ghost also. So I get the confusion. I had a lot of conversation with @djslack of trying to get ahold of people. Like I said I have quite a bit of stuff laying around and definitely could have an extra box waiting to go if needed.
@djslack @Kidsandliz @sillyheathen @Star2236 I ended up sending to a ghost as well and I helped out to send to someone that was ghosted. Which is why I’m suggesting that you at least get a ping from your recipient in elfster. I should have realized I was going to be sending to a ghost when I sent a message via elfster about likes and dislikes and got no response
@ironcheftoni @Kidsandliz @sillyheathen @Star2236
Some people said they weren’t getting the elfster emails which made communication hard if they didn’t go check the site. This was a minority, only a few people out of over 100.
/giphy nah
@medz
/giphy missing out
@medz But I already got your gift picked out.
https://www.poopsenders.com
@yakkoTDI
/giphy dont
@medz @yakkoTDI
OMG I love it!! I don’t believe I’ve never seen this before! It’s hilarious!
I would I love to exchange this year as last year was my first time and it was enjoyable.
I’ve participated in most of the exchanges. I think they’re a lot of fun. If someone does put one together this year, I’d be into it. Elfster did seem to work pretty well last year.
I wasn’t able to do the last one but did the one before that, and we had a lot of fun putting the box together and getting one in return with some pretty cool stuff - the closets are bulging so I’d be up for another one for sure!
The only catch with Elfster is the inability to have geographical limits for people who request that (as a handful have done each year) due to their box being (typically) bigger than the medium priority mail box and postage costs. That would need to be taking into consideration - especially since postage is going up. A Maine to SanDiego match of a big box would be really expensive if a priority mail box isn’t used. It isn’t really much of a pain to use the random number generator on excel to match. After the random match I checked geographically for the handful that requested it and for really long distances in matches and just did a search on nearby states and swapped people out.
Also I don’t think elfster allowed people to send more than one box and we have a fair number who want to exchange 2 or 3 of them. Consistantly. When I randomly match I then also go through to make sure the multibox senders don’t get themselves or the same “other” with the multiple boxes sent.
Other than checking for those two things the random generator matches aren’t touched. It takes, maybe, 15 min tops to go through to adjust for distance issues/requests and making sure multiple box senders happen OK.
The one thing elfster does that does save time is that it generates the emails and using excel I have to. That only takes about a half hour to do so. When you use google docs for people to sign up it downloads as an excel file so no need to re-enter anything.
I do think, because of the multiple box thing and the requests (I got multiple each time) to send in a more geographically limited area due to cost would be good arguments not to use that program unless it is no longer limited in that arena.
If the person organizing the exchange on Elfster doesn’t adjust the privacy policy everyone participating can see everyone else’s address. So if this is being used be sure to lock down that.
Also their privacy policy requires that you allow cross site tracking to access all the “features” of their site, if you use social media to log in they pull info from that,They say they, personally, don’t sell your info, but clearly they need to make money somehow and there are enough weasel words in there I am not sure what, exactly, they do.
https://www.elfster.com/privacy/
Trying to look to see how they make money with a “free” service…
“How do you make money? Our revenue model is through advertising, partnerships, and the programs and services we provide for our retail partners.”
https://www.zdnet.com/article/elfster-secret-santa-now-web-enabled/
And, “It’s all part of the company’s big strategic vision to be an alternative customer acquisition engine for brands hoping to be less reliant on leading social media platforms.”
https://www.modernretail.co/platforms/how-elfster-is-capitalizing-on-digital-gifting-to-entice-retail-brand-partners/
As a result I, personally, would not sign up on Elfster or use it to run this, despite its advantages with respect to doing the matching (outside of the limits I mentioned) and sending the match emails. Of course the things that bother me may not bother others but I do think if this platform is used again whomever runs this needs to make sure people know how they make their money, and the limits with respect to the two issues I can deal with using excel.
@Kidsandliz
Re elfster and privacy/other issues:
If elfster has enough advantages, people can just download another browser to use only for elfster. As long as the browser is only for elfster, cross-site tracking and other social media embedded browser crap don’t get additional info (unless elfster already has additional info on that person)
(altho the sign up process on elfster will provide info that elfster will likely then pass along)
When the exchange is completed, delete all browser data including cookies in that browser. Possibly delete browser.
To further preserve privacy, people can create and use specific gmail or other free email addresses only for the exchange. That way the email address used doesnt get linked to sites where the user has accounts using other email contact info.
However … If using elfster means handing out real names and physical addresses to elfster as well as to the admin and the exchange partners, elfster will almost certainly (thru their back-end biz contracts) pass/sell that info on to the big database companies.
Those big data companies already know everything there is to know about everyone who has ever touched a computer or smart phone. But, participating using elfster would add a little more data to the big data collections.
So … How do possible participants feel about this privacy aspect?
@f00l @Kidsandliz You also have the ability to create an ID and password on Elfster instead of using a social media login which I don’t like using social media logins so that is what I did. I didn’t notice any additional spam. Since the wish lists hook into amazon and other companies, that’s one way of them making their money.
I did it last year and would up for it again this year, especially since reddit gifts shut down. I had like 45 or 50 credits built up on that thing - I love doing exchanges.
I would be interested in participating. I did one a few years back when studerc (I probably got that wrong) was still running them. I certainly have a box of stuff and I promise not to send 1 person all of the macbook air cases I have.
@remo28 As I promise not to send anyone all the iphone7 cases I have. (fingers crossed!)
Are folks sending each other all the meh stuff they purchased over the year?
@edsa If it’s like last year, it’s essentially like sending a personalized (or not so personalized) IRK.
Is there a price limit / target?
@zinimusprime 2 Covid licks per item
Admin thoughts from a non-participant:
(Elfster or not elfster)
Re people who want to send/receive more than one box:
I think in the past, that option was only available to those who weren’t first-timers, and who had been problem-free in past exchanges.
Perhaps this could be done with elfster (maybe) by having the exchange admin allow multiple signups for a short list of pre-approved “multiple box” participants.
Anyone not already in that list would have to not be a first-timer, and also have no history if needing reminders etc (ie no probs in the past) in order to get onto the multiple-box list.
But this would only work (using elfster) if elfster allows manual adjustment of the matches, so that multiple-box folk don’t draw themselves as matches.
I don’t know if elfster allows manual match adjusting.
If elfster allows manual adjustment of matches by the admin, then that could also fix the prob of needing location proximity matches for those who don’t want to do long-distance non-fixed-rate shipping.
What does elfster allow in terms of the ER admin approving sign-ups before those go forward?
(IE weeding out those who aren’t know on meh, unapproved multiple sign-ups, etc?)
If elfster is used, I suggest everyone be required to provide a meh uid within the elfster exchange info setup.
Perhaps another req (whether elfster is used or not) is that persons in the exchange be required to be active during the entire event in the exchange topic on meh. That might help some with communication and ghosting.
The admins could also ask for those wonderful folk who are willing to step-up and send out an additional box to “ghosted recipients” to get in touch.
Perhaps there ought to get a public list of those who have indicated they want to send/receive more than one box?
@kidsandliz, since you know what system you used for signups and keeping track etc, and you may still have a spreadsheet template for this, perhaps you could send that along to the new admins?
How hard was it to do not using elfster?
What setups did you use, did you create a special email to make it easier to manage, how did you track of everything at each step?
What were the events you tracked?
How did you keep track of things like non-response? Did you require shipping notices, and track those? Or just wait for problems to be reported?
Did you post public or send email reminders about “hey people, we are at this stage, please follow thru”? Etc.
Did you use any specific simple project-tracking /email-tracking or template system?
Those who do all the work for this are doing a genuine bit of public service. Much admiration to @ironcheftoni and @sillyheathen for being open to taking on the job.
There are always a lot of small details.
Volunteering always seems to involve this. : )
I’m happy to see this happen, I love that people love it.
However, I’m not taking part. I’m terrible at sending mail, terrible at picking up mail, excellent at procrastination, and out of town a lot right now.
@f00l from what I remember, it seems like so long ago:
Admin can remove people from elfster prior to match day (close of RSVP period).
Admin I think can manually adjust pairings. I know there is a “cannot pair” feature to block certain people from being automatically paired. IIRC the pairing was a process where it generated, could be tweaked, and then sent out?
Admin can flag people as bad eggs.
Requirement of the meh username is strongly recommended, although I used that first message as a quick ping to test for responsiveness as well. When people signed up with their real name I messaged them on elfster and asked for their meh username. Some people failed this and were removed.
I thought about multiple signups as a workaround for multi box senders but it seemed like a hassle.
I did handle angel senders outside the system, just asked people to volunteer and kept a list, then assigned them recipients and whispered them here as needed.
Things I liked about elfster: prebuilt system for tracking and assignment of an exchange, people management features, an anonymous messaging system.
Things I didn’t like: not friction free fit with a meh exchange because we also have the forum, multiple clicks necessary to reveal the recipient for x user (had to use quite a bit to answer questions), the amount of emails it generated from an admin standpoint, people claiming not to have gotten emails.
I will say from the privacy standpoint, any free service of course the customer is the product. They clearly get affiliate income with all the shopping and wishlist integration they have. But I have not seen any emails or junk mail that seem to be related to my use of elfster. I did the myname+elfster Gmail address trick so anything that did originate from them would come to that address, unless shady marketers are hip to that and strip it out I haven’t seen anything.
@f00l I just searched to confirm. I haven’t had anything not from elfster sent to that address, and I haven’t had an email from elfster since January 26. So they seem ok with not turning my email loose.
@djslack @f00l
It wasn’t much of a hassle to do it using excel.
First timers were only allowed to do one box
user names were required to be included (the form had that as a required to submit so it wouldn’t submit without it.
For user names I didn’t know I checked them. I also checked against the username list (didn’t keep the rest of that data past the exchange, just usernames) to see if names I didn’t recognize actually did do the exchange in the past. There are a number of people who read the forums and participate in the exchange but don’t post much on the forums. I didn’t see any difference between boxes they sent, ghosting levels, etc. and what frequent forum participants did or did not do.
Names used for people’s addresses just had to be a name that meant USPS would deliver and some used their meh username or other things that clearly were not their “real” name. Doesn’t matter to the exchange (well if excel and google docs are used) as long as the post office will deliver. I did make sure email addressed didn’t have typos as I sent a mass (addresses BCC) email to everyone to see if someone bounced because of a typo (on my end copy/paste) and announced in the thread if you didn’t get an email let me know. It was clear some folks created an email just for the exchange (eg username.exchange@whatever) and that doesn’t matter as long as they actually read it, or put a forward on it to send to an email they do read.
If someone wanted to send a tracking number (most did not) to the receiver they sent it to me and I forwarded it on (I had a dedicated exchange yahoo email which I would strongly suggest).
As one of the original intents was to keep your sender a surprise that isn’t going to work all that well with elfster if emails are given out as some folks use ones with their actual names in them.
I tracked the reveal thread and marked in excel the results of that. I sent reminders if the sender contacted me to say it was received (eg from the tracking number) and not posted or if a receiver said they hadn’t gotten theirs yet and it was far enough out it should have been sent. If someone didn’t post what they got I put them on a list for the future. Do it twice and you are banned. Don’t send and you are banned. After a certain point I contacted senders and receivers to see what was up if nothing was on the thread. A couple of times the sender replied that they had an issue/family emergency, etc. and then I contacted someone willing to send an extra to send to their person. Sometimes a receiver replied with an apology, more often though they then posted.
We have had fakers who created an account, clearly had no intention of sending. Won’t divulge here how I knew some of them (will tell people who run it). They were removed. Funny I never heard from them that they never got anything.
The front end is less time consuming than the back end where you are dealing with the inevitable issues/problems that can and do arise. Most of the time procrastination is the issue and folks just need a reminder (or two or three on occasion).
Ghosted people do get boxes. And there are always 4-8 who want to send extras, most of whom are not even exchanging boxes.
Another problem is sometimes senders forget to put in the box who they are. I then could look it up on the list and post under the reveal who the sender was to flag them their box was posted.
There is probably more, but all this is just off the top of my head. I did share info with the person who did it after the 4 or 5 (or however many) times I ran it just as the person who started it shared info with me. I have a full list of banned folks as the person who did it last shared their problem people with me and I added it to the list. I presume they have a full list too.
I am more than glad to give advice to someone if they were to want it and would certainly share a few things I did not on the list here.
Omg this is so awesome! This is my first full year as a Mehtizen so I never knew you guys did exchanges. I would absolutely love to participate this year!
LEGOS! EGGOS! STRATEGO! AWESOME!
@nonlion only if you promise to send your match a spider!
and by your match I mean me…… 
/giphy jk
@sillyheathen Lol ask and you shall receive!
I’d be interested in participating this year.
Y’all want a box of drone parts, right?
did anyone step up to run this? (yeah, I am being lazy tl;dr)
Can’t volunteer to run it this year… sorry…
@mikibell yes, look for announcement soon
@ironcheftoni Your service to meh universe is greatly appreciated.
I would love to participate this year! sign me up
@josegarciajr the new exchange topic is broadcast at the top.
https://meh.com/forum/topics/2021-unofficial-holiday-mehrican-exchange
Gonna be OOT Thanksgiving and Christmas weeks, but will make sure I get this done!
And I can attest to the efficacy and cost savings of Pirateship.
@star2236 @ironcheftoni I didn’t get on board quick enough this year and coming in a bit late, but I would be very very very happy to be a gift-giver for anyone who gets ghosted
@kerryzero thank you for stepping up to be a possible future hero.
@ironcheftoni Yay I am more than happy to help