Maybe it bothers me more than it should: Star Trek
9We recently finished watching Star Trek Picard and started watching Star Trek Discovery (I just call it STD) and I am disappointed in both of them.
A large part had to do with their TV-MA ratings. Why in the world would you want to take something as universal as Star Trek and add garbage to it just to give it a TV-MA rating?
I don’t know… Maybe it bothers me more than it should.
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
Apart from the MA rating: how good is it?
@f00l not who you asked, but I generally enjoyed both STD and Picard. I’d say I had issues with the general premise of the first season of STD, but second was entertaining.
In general, much like the recent batch of Star Trek movies, they’re moving away from the brainy thoughtfulness that the previous series have been known for, and more towards shoot-um-up action. Not that it’s necessarily a BAD thing, but it isn’t what someone who grew up on TNG would expect.
Then again, I will watch pretty much anything sci-fi and be entertained, so I might not be the best person to answer.
@f00l I haven’t watched STD past the first season, but that was decidedly meh. Lots of fluffy space laser pew pew nonsense and character drama, not much Star Trek soul if that’s your thing. Plenty of blue lights though. Just get blue LEDs on everything. Point them directly at the camera. More blue!
I didn’t watch enough Picard to judge it, yet.
I say this as someone who grew up watching TNG and DS9. Watched Voyager later and liked it. TOS was before my time, and when I got around to it, it was too much of a stretch.
@InnocuousFarmer
TOS was a part of its time. Late 60’s. So it’s often bombastic and over-the-top, and also somewhat simplistic all too often; as it was I think kinda the first American created SF series to “hit” to a degree.
If you go back and look at other stuff from that era, you’ll see some similarities in flavor.
If you choose to watch TOS, maybe watch it as “historical tv”. And it was quite daring, in its way, during a white-bread-TV era.
@f00l Discovery season 1 was ok, if you can get past Yet Another Klingon Redesign, and some horribly bad bits like Klingon sex. We didn’t need to see that. The second part of the season is better than the first. And there’s a reason something seems off about Captain Lorca.
Season 2 is great, Christopher Pike is my favorite Starfleet Captain now. I’m thrilled he’s got his own show!
Picard was great up until the last bit of the last episode. They’ve done that fakeout WAY too many times for it to be of any interest, or have any dramatic impact. And we already know there’s a second season.
Wonderful to see old friends again!
@f00l For reference, I grew up on TOS. I even saw a few minutes in prime time first run. Then grandma changed the channel “because it’s too scary, and you’ll have nightmares”. (It was the Talosians and their pulsing heads.)
I’m still trying to forgive her.
I’m guessing the writers didn’t want their storytelling to be limited by a lower rating, but in general I agree that they’ve been moving more in the direction of flash and trash since the rebooted movies.
@smigit2002 I think it’s spelled flesh.
@katbyter @smigit2002
not flesh so much, per se
Recently read an article about the late William Ware Theiss, who did all the costumes for TOS and I believe at least early TNG.
He tried to put women in pants in TOS, and was over-ruled. Producers wanted a mini- so we had all the females in mini-dresses. Go back and look at how much skin there was, how much kissing their was (all that network TV allowed back in the TOS day). And Kirk shot everything that moved.
I haven’t seen much ST-D, but in Picard, it’s not a single episode story line. The arc’s are 10 hours long and all about one side wanting to murder an entire group of people…
I have heard to expect another TV series that will be episodic and more like TOS and TNG. Captain Pike. Time will tell where it will go.
Wish I felt I could binge watch something, but doesn’t go with my brain anymore
@Cerridwyn I would believe they wanted pants in TOS because they were hoping that in the future we’d be beyond the wardrobe double standard. Nope. Troi got to wear pants sometimes in TNG. But not Uhura. Minis all the way.
@Cerridwyn @katbyter I’m pretty sure I rember Troi also wearing a nearly see-through negligee at some point. I absolutely did not go searching for that scene just now and learn that it’s Season 6, Episode 3.
@Cerridwyn @katbyter @Limewater
There was one ep where they put Troi in some sort of Starfleet uniform that was practically a ballgown fit for Cinderella at the palace.
Assymetrical neckline if I remember.
Got lots of commentary and re-watching, due to “Wow, cleavage!” factor.
@Cerridwyn @f00l @katbyter @Limewater Then there’s 2 of 36. I mean 7 of 9.
@Cerridwyn @katbyter @smigit2002 Are you sure he was overruled? He is known for the “Theiss Titillation Theory”: "The sexiness of an outfit is directly proportional to the perceived possibility that a vital piece of it might fall off.
@blaineg @katbyter @smigit2002
on pants yes
the rest… leave it to a gay man, LOL
https://www.startrek.com/news/william-ware-theiss-in-out-of-uniform
@blaineg @Cerridwyn @katbyter @smigit2002
A potential example; unfortunately, not a part of ST costume history:
@Cerridwyn @katbyter @Limewater
Here’s the “Troi ballgown uniform” outfit I remember.
Have no idea what ep, but think it kay have been during the earlier seasons.
@blaineg @f00l @katbyter @smigit2002
I was a trekkie from the original letter writing campaign in the 1960’s
attended FAN run star trek cons in the 70’s and remember one fashion show quite well. It was a time when the hotels would book non-convention guests elsewhere if they complained…
but one couple came as an orion slave trader and his merch.
the only thing she was wearing was green skin paint.
Shuts the kids out from watching it. At least mine, anyway. Which means it doesn’t get watched in our house because I don’t take the time to watch stuff without the kids. Family shows only.
My disappointment is with the story and how it has become a soap opera for both Discovery and Picard. You used to be able to watch an episode by itself and understand what’s going on. Now you must watch them in order and really pay attention because you could miss something important.
By the time I finish watching one episode and then have time for the next, I usually forgot major parts of the previous one already. The only way to watch them is to watch the entire season in one or two days in a binge.
Another show like this was Westworld. Now that they finally released Season 3, I’m not sure I remember enough from Season 1 and 2 to start watching it again.
@cengland0
There is a new series coming that will be episodic again. So stay tuned.
Haven’t seen enough Picard yet but I don’t remember anything particularly MA in Discovery. Probably there was some rougher violence. And language I bet. Maybe the odd “disturbing” scene. Ok, so, everything except sex.
TV ratings are weird. The stories are fundamentally the same, just with bowlderized distortion.
If you go back and look at some of the TOS costumes, a lot of that was, how much side boob can there be without incurring the wrath of the networks? They weren’t even in the spirit of the thing. You know there was some sartorial technician there with a scale and a protractor.
At least with Discovery, I don’t think your kids are missing much.
@InnocuousFarmer So the trauma of it has blocked the memory of Klingon sex? Lucky you.
@blaineg squints
Oh yeah! Huh. That was mostly, implied though, wasn’t it? That’d have been an adult kind of scene but I imagine mostly for err, thematic reasons.
This is all I could think of as I read the thread
Fuck CBS.
They took their most prestigious property and put it behind a pay wall.
And didn’t even make it worth paying for.
I watched all of Picard and a few episodes of Discovery on a free trial and, unlike several other shows on other services, I will not be paying to see more.
@DennisG2014 Interestingly, it’s on Netflix in countries other than the USA.
I watched a few episodes of Picard and Discovery but I just couldn’t get in to them. I used to watch all the Star Trek shows but these just don’t do it for me. I do enjoy The Orville. It feels like it fits in more with the spirit of Star Trek.
@BadTouchRobot Once they got the fart jokes out of their system, Orville turned into a good show.
The short treks are nice “side trips” and are more of the self-contained format, since it is an anthology.
Just starting STP, and after that STD S2. The disco episode from S1 was particularly memorable.
@mike808 Is Modern Major-General a requirement for every SF show?
@blaineg @mike808
/youtube modern major general
@f00l @mike808 Babylon 5 did it too.
Whenever I think about the original series I am immediately reminded of the send up SNL did back in the old days, (The Last Voyage) with Belushi as Kirk, Chevy Chase as Spock and Ackroyd pulling double duty as Scottie (off screen) and Bones. A worthwhile 11 minutes, check it out on YouTube.
@ajdillon
That’s (to me), one of the greatest of SNL bits. It gets referred to in the forums here every so often.
As always, the SNL writers had probs figuring out what to do with Garrett Morris.
Here ya go
Amen!
Unpopular opinion here, but I do enjoy the serial format of both shows. It took some mental resetting to realize these are not just dusting off the old stuff and remaking the same scripts with new cast. I love ST, and having a breakthrough to a different perspective after years of often formulaic “Picard finds a problem, makes a speech, problem solved and zooms away” is mentally challenging. Who are the bad guys, who are the good guys, what problems end badly?
I am drawn in, I ponder and chew what has happened, I bounce theories off of my friends. I never did that with any other ST series, as you had the answers before the episode was done.
Nope, it is not for everyone and that is fine. I am glad there are hundreds of TV watching options with different series frameworks. You can dislike the new series, that’s expected. I may dislike something you love.
@Pamtha I don’t know, I don’t think anyone’s too fired up in this forum, except about them not being child-friendly.
What I’ve seen so far are good enough examples of recentish sci-fi, if you don’t walk in with expectations (edit: well… I don’t know about STD’s first season. It was… eh.). As long as you don’t start extolling the virtues of time travel plots – I WILL CUT YOU!
I mean, uh, everyone’s entitled to their opinions.
I should get around to watching the rest of these series I guess.
@InnocuousFarmer Agreed. The shift away from PG-13 can be jarring if you focus on ST:TNG (but cut out the sex ghost) and Voyager as the gold standard of ST.
DS9 has very deep arcs that may be lost on the kiddos, yet is generally child safe if not really “engaging” for them, as much of the bad things are implied, not shown. Enterprise, well, has some deep dark stuff in the open – suicide, the mirror universe torture of the Tholian, drug addiction. We just don’t talk about Enterprise for good reason.
Honestly, if you look back at TOS, that was not child friendly at that time. I am trying to rewatch it, and the pandering sexuality and chauvinism towards the women makes it uncomfortable for me. Seeing the pretty women in the skants coming on the bridge to deliver coffee, then lean into Kirk for a cuddle while the ship is in danger of being destroyed is…surreal.
@Pamtha That “… holy shit, really?” culture shock is one of the fun parts of watching old TV, you ask me. TOS might be ground zero for that, Roddenberry being all about open relationships in the 60s, and it being a vision of the future…