@lonnyzone your missing the whole point.

@Enigma Explain to me how those items will abate the Corona Virus?

@Enigma @lonnyzone Wondered when tRump’s lemmings were going to weigh in-and just like tRump-say something that has nothing to do with the subject and totally useless

@Enigma @lonnyzone well, that does seem to be the point of the bill Pelosi tried to ram through in the name of a relief package. All that and more was in it. You want to talk playing politics with people’s health…

@Enigma Oh, I see your point now. OMB. Got it.

@Enigma @lonnyzone @ybmuG Oh so the Orange Skidmark wasn’t playing politics when the first called it a Democratic hoax and minimized its seriousness because it would hurt his re-election chances.

@Enigma @Felton10 @lonnyzone so you’re defending Pelosi’s bill?

@lonnyzone @ybmuG the bill is supposed to help healthcare and the keep the economy from failing. Drs., nurses, and medical research and supplies to try to keep us alive and find a cure or antidote are a necessity! And of course people still need to eat. Manufactures still need to produce those things we need. Since you’ve taken it to politics. Did you think it’s fair to just hand over billions to be distributed for CEO’s to get a large chunk of that money and the small business’s get peanuts? Those who desperately need the help shouldn’t get it? And even worst for the cheeto ConMan in charge, and his swamp monsters to pick and choose which states he wants to help? Many or most possibly being states he needs to win the election. We’ve seen over and over his he operates. It’s ALL about HIM and the 1% not the American people.

@Felton10 @lonnyzone @ybmuG No, I’m saying they need to go back to the table and focus on this crisis.

@Enigma @lonnyzone happy to discuss civilly the differential benefits of aid to individuals, aid to small businesses, aid to big businesses, aid to health care, etc as essential components of an economic stimulus package at this moment in time. But the original question was about things that have nothing to do with the virus or the economic impact of it that were packed into a bill that was supposed to be about helping the American people who are losing their jobs right now.

@lonnyzone @ybmuG on that i agree. Hence why I said they need to focus on the crisis. They reason its not passing is because both sides are trying to control and include things in the bill that had nothing to do with the crisis.

@Enigma @lonnyzone we can hope, but not holding my breath.

@lonnyzone @ybmuG neither am i. Just staying in. Praying for the health providers and researchers to find a cure.

@lonnyzone https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-that-pelosi-withheld-coronavirus-funds-over-abortion/

@Enigma @Felton10 @lonnyzone @ybmuG

He didn’t call it a hoax, even Snopes says that was fake news. You need to try to find reliable sources instead of believing the idiots on tv.

@kdemo That’s a BIG stretch…These poor people were not told by anyone to ingest this stuff…I am sure they also thought their essential oils were keeping their Chakra clear…

They ate something that literally said on the label NOT to eat it. It would be like blaming the Surgeon General because I ate a phone battery after hearing him say Lithium was a possible treatment for alleviating the constant crippling depression caused by posts like this.

@lonnyzone

if you feel superior by blaming Orange Man Bad for stupid behavior

I can tell you this. If I were in his position, I wouldn’t go on TV and run my mouth about crap I am woefully ill-informed about. I would probably defer to the experts. Does that make me superior? In that regard, yeah, I think it does.

@lonnyzone - Stupid behavior? Okay. The people in question took what the resident recommended. He should stop with the lies, many of his followers aren’t smart enough to know the difference.

@kdemo @lonnyzone he recommended drinking aquarium cleaner? Must have missed that.

@kdemo @lonnyzone @ybmuG This is what he said. Full of the same ignorance as he is, some of his followers are stupid enough to take his word as gospel. So yes, he essentially recommended it as a cure.

Now, a drug called chloroquine — and some people would add to it “hydroxy-.” Hydroxychloroquine. So chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine. Now, this is a common malaria drug. It is also a drug used for strong arthritis. If somebody has pretty serious arthritis, also uses this in a somewhat different form. But it is known as a malaria drug, and it’s been around for a long time and it’s very powerful. But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody.

When you go with a brand-new drug, you don’t know that that’s going to happen. You have to see and you have to go — long test. But this has been used in different forms — very powerful drug — in different forms. And it’s shown very encouraging — very, very encouraging early results. And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. And that’s where the FDA has been so great. They — they’ve gone through the approval process; it’s been approved. And they did it — they took it down from many, many months to immediate. So we’re going to be able to make that drug available by prescription or states.

They’re not the only ones either.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/africa/chloroquine-trump-nigeria-intl/index.html

@cinoclav @kdemo @lonnyzone And just before that quote, he was clear that the drug was approved for “Compassionate Use”. A fact which was further substantiated by the head of the FDA a few minutes later.

Clinical trials are already underway for many new therapies and we’re working on scaling these to allow many more Americans to access different drugs that have shown really good promise. We’ve had some un- — really good promise. We will do so in a way that lets us continue to collect good data, to know which medicines are safe and which medicines are working the best. We have a couple that we’re — we’re in really good shape on. And that’s for immediate delivery — immediate — like as fast as we can get it.

The FDA has also approved compassionate use for a significant number of patients. You know what that means. We’re also reviewing drugs that are approved abroad or drugs approved here for other uses.

Here’s the entire transcript:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-6/

That people are taking any hopeful news about a possible cure and running to self-medicate instead of consulting a physician is more a consequence of the desperation they feel. It’s terrible that they would see some mangled news report saying the “Donald Trump says it cures Coronavirus” (which he did not say) and then go out and procure it for themselves and take it unsupervised by a medical professional. But it’s also not Donald Trump’s fault.

@kdemo @lonnyzone @ybmuG Technically, right before that quote he touted the Right to Try act, which he had claimed would save hundreds of thousands of lives. That act has provided for a grand total of two people to be admitted into experimental treatments. It’s just another example of his relentless lying. This is what I don’t understand. @ybmuG, I really like you. I enjoy your posts and you’re obviously of above average intelligence. I am simply unable to see how you could you defend him. I don’t believe you’re not aware of the level and quantity of proliferating lies. Help me out here, explain your point of view.

@cinoclav @kdemo @lonnyzone if you saw one of my other posts, you’d know that I think he is trying to deliver as positive a message as possible, not a little because he can’t rely on the press (his frustrations with the press have pushed him to taking them on more publicly which I think is a mistake, at least in the way he has done some of it like with Alexander the other day, but that is another issue).

The issue, however, especially with things like healthcare which you are correct that he does not have deep knowledge of, is that he gets ahead of himself and, unfortunately, the experts. Which is why I think he should step aside more often than he does. He wants to be seen by the American people as the deliverer of good news. But I think that can be better done by those like Dr. Fauci.

This does not however, IMHO, rise to the l level of deserving the kind of vilification heard here and elsewhere. Not that one does not have the right to such expression, but rather that I think what we are discussing here is not deserving of it.

Nor are those that support what he is doing. What you and others said below, which I will not quote, was offensive. I appreciate your willingness to have a civil conversation, but your statements would indicate otherwise. I hope that was more the heat of the moment than your true feelings - toward me or anyone else.

I probably won’t respond again. I have lots of work to do and, frankly, I’m tired of this discourse. It’s not healthy. Besides, I need to find someone with paper towels. Got a whole 6-pack of TP the other day, so we celebrated (damn hoarders).

@ybmuG I’ll mail you a few rolls if you get desperate.

@sammydog01

@cinoclav - I so agree, it breaks my heart. Their guy berates factual news sources so they’re mistrusted, it plays perfectly into his agenda. The vitriol is stunning.
I suggest something like CSPAN to see actual unedited proceedings with no added interpretation. And an open mind.

@cinoclav @kdemo @lonnyzone @ybmuG I can’t listen to people try and defend The Orange One, just like I can’t stand listening to his lies anymore. He’s getting way too dangerous and will cost people their lives. No doubt about that.

@mick But he also turned down a half a million test kits from the world heath organization when we had few of them… and I could go on but won’t.

Sorry, @mick; this has been proven false more than once. I wish it were true; it makes a great story. But, sadly, not…
PS: The tests you refer to were fewer than 10,000 and – hate to say it – they’ve been proven to be ineffective anyway.

@mick Thank you.

@mick

MOST of them have been pretty good

Name 3 that directly benefited you or someone you care about.

@mick https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html

@medz the tax cut did give us a little more money in each check and the same refund after filling taxes. so not bad.

most of the other stuff is for the USA in general.

I want my president to put American citizens well being and our country well being as the most important.
not sending tons of money saving or intervening in the whole world. I want most of our tax money spent here to fix our problems…

I would like for all American citizens if they don’t have private health insurance to be eligible for a low cost or free government option. never can happen if we let lots of people in and if we are spending tons of money everywhere else.

I don’t like illegal immigration.
it is cruel to the folks who play by the rules and wait in line to immigrate here.
so I want stronger immigration rules and border protections.

I like that he his being tougher on trade deals, deals that benefits American interests.

the supreme court and lots of the lower courts were being not actual constitutional courts. we needed more constitutional judges.

but him being president as revealed how bias and utterly filled with left leaning folks the media is.

I got more but…
I am getting old and tired… lol

anyways… do I love everything he says or does? no. has he accomplished all the things I want… yeah…no. but he is inching me a little closer to them. yup.

so try to be kind.
In the yelling and screaming and swearing at me how wrong and stupid I am.

@PhysAssist paywall… could not read.:(

@mick

1. Unfortunately, the tax cuts (which are only temporary for the people, BTW) did not benefit me any bit at all. My income is low-middle class, and yet I ended up paying more taxes than before.
2. Healthcare … that he wanted to dismantle, but couldn’t because even the rest of the party couldn’t come to terms in offering something acceptable to the people. The Affordable Care Act was already a compromised plan to begin with.
3. The negotiated trade “deals” didn’t favor the US any one bit; it just salvaged what was left. Creating the trade war with China only further benefitted them as they stopped buying from multiple major tech firms, equipment manufacturers, and left the farming industry absolutely decimated. Not only did the US industries lose big time, but it gave China even greater incentive to build up and expand their own industries. Boeing? Sorry, they have Comac building airplanes now. Intel? Zhaoxin has x86 CPUs too. Caterpillar? Zoomlion will supply the equipment now. The commodity crops they used to buy is now supplied from other nations now. And in that interim, any US manufacturers that relied on components from China (because why by local when we can close the factories and pay 1/3rd the price by importing?) got screwed with the tariffs.
4. Why in a booming economy was the US deficit spending even more than before? Fiscal conservative? Business smarts? That sure didn’t sound like it.

The very departments that were to have helped the US deal with the current pandemic was cut in this administration. The supplies we need? In the name of profits, US companies source them from China. And out of all this, it’s the people who will end up suffering.

America has always been great – looked up upon by the other leaders of the world. In these past few years, America has been turned into the laughing stock – because of one person’s ego.

@mick I had less withheld from each check, but a smaller refund.

@mick @narfcake The tariffs hit us. We had to raise our prices. Twice. Once because of the original tariffs that we had to pay, the next time because our US suppliers had to raise their prices.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

This was a little graphic I made for the kids in the back of the room. They still don’t get it. “Trump said, Trump said”…(trump is full of shit.)

@lisaviolet @mick @narfcake that is how tariffs are intended to work. This promotes sourcing from other places (that hopefully have better records on human rights, the environment, intellectually property, etc.) Heck, it might even have us buying from a country that likes and v respects us and is deserving of “most favored nation status”!

@mick @narfcake @scout13fox But donnie kept repeating that China was paying for the tariffs. They were not.

@scout13fox Oh, yes, that “might even” happen, as the probability is higher than zero. What does happen is usually one of three things:

1. Importers will still buy from the same source but raise their prices to cover the added cost of the tariffs.
2. Importers will find another source that is more expensive than the original one, but less expensive than the original price + tariff. This may be from a “better” country, or from a worse one. The product may be equivalent, or better, or more shoddy than the original source. The one thing it will be is more expensive than the product was before the tariffs.
3. Importers will find a new source for the product that is not subject to the tariffs. These are highly likely to be companies that simply (for example) import the product from China into Canada, change the labels, then sell it to the US importer sans tariff but with a markup that is a bit less than the tariff. The price to the end-user is still higher than the original product before the tariff.

@mick @narfcake
How Trump Is Worsening the Current Viral Pandemic Now:

Medical shortages are his responsibility.

By David Leonhardt
Opinion Columnist
March 22, 2020

At a private New York meeting in October of 1940, William Knudsen made a desperate plea to the automobile industry’s top executives. Knudsen himself had been the president of General Motors until a few months earlier. But he had stepped down to help oversee military production at President Franklin Roosevelt’s request. The position paid $1 a year.

Knudsen told the executives that American military officials surveying the Nazis’ bombing of England had concluded that the country with the strongest airpower was going to win the war. And the United States was badly behind. So Roosevelt and his military advisers wanted the car companies to forget about making cars, Knudsen said. They needed to begin making warplanes.

It was a radical request. It also matched the urgency of the situation. The car executives said yes, and the overhaul of Detroit became crucial to winning the war.

The current coronavirus pandemic is not an actual war, but it does threaten modern society and human life in ways that nothing has in decades. More than two million Americans could die. Many will do so alone, separated from their family and friends. Funerals will often be impossible. Stores, schools and entire neighborhoods are shutting down. In the second quarter of this year, which starts next week, forecasters predict that the economy could shrink at the most rapid rate since the Great Depression.

This is a moment that calls for the urgency that Roosevelt and Knudsen summoned in the fall of 1940 — when, it’s worth remembering, the attack on Pearl Harbor was still more than a year away.

President Trump, however, has chosen a different response.

He has repeatedly decided not to get out in front of the virus. Instead of taking aggressive steps that public-health experts were urging, he has moved slowly, presumably in the hope that things would somehow work out for the best. Only when it became clear that they weren’t working out for the best, has he followed the advice that experts had been offering for weeks. He has since tried to rewrite recent history and is claiming that his response has been aggressive from the start.

The first example, of course, was his effort to play down the virus for almost two months, starting in late January. He called it a Democratic hoax, and then falsely said that the number of cases was falling and that the virus might just go away, “like a miracle.” Even as medical experts were warning about the lack of testing, Trump did nothing to fix the situation, and the United States fell badly behind other countries, and the upsurging viral contagion.

The biggest current example of Trump’s relaxed response is his refusal to use his authority — from a 1950 law, the Defense Production Act — to order a sweeping mobilization of medical supplies. It could resemble the old overhaul of Detroit, with companies directed to produce millions of masks, ventilators, gowns, inhalers, prescription drugs, virus tests and more. He keeps saying that he is using it, but it takes a minimum of research to prove that premise false.

If you spend any time talking with doctors, nurses and other front-line workers, you will hear how badly they need these supplies. You will also hear them explain, sometimes in tears, that the lack of supplies will have deadly consequences. Patients will die needlessly, and so will doctors and nurses.

Esther Choo, an emergency-room doctor in Oregon, started an online campaign called #GetMePPE (which refers to personal protective equipment), and it has led to an outpouring of anguished stories. Vidya Kumar Ramanathan, a Michigan doctor, has had to reuse the same mask all day, which makes it impossible to cleanse herself of the virus while working. Jessica Varga, a New York-area anesthesiologist, had to buy her own eye protection on Amazon. Amy Silverman, a Colorado nurse, says some of her colleagues have had to use the same single-use mask for weeks.

The federal government has lamely suggested that doctors and nurses use bandannas or scarves to shield their faces “as a last resort” — even though those items offer minimal protection [proven to be 1/50th as efficient as N95 level masks]. It’s a far cry from the can-do spirit of 1940.

Some private companies, to their credit, are increasing production of medical equipment. But it’s not happening quickly enough. It’s also not happening in any organized way: Caregivers have had to create Google spreadsheets to do their best to match supplies and need. The only way for a national mobilization to happen quickly and efficiently is with presidential leadership.

Instead, Trump has taken to the White House lectern to boast that he has invoked the 1950 Defense Production Act, which is technically true. He has then made vague and often incorrect claims about all the good it is doing. On Sunday, he tweeted that Ford, G.M. and Tesla had “the go ahead” to make ventilators, a statement that appears to have little meaning, since they don’t require his permission to produce them. His advisers, in anonymous interviews, have admitted the truth: He doesn’t want to direct companies to produce medical supplies because doing so would violate the administration’s free-market economic views.

I want to emphasize that blaming Trump for the appearance of coronavirus would be deeply unfair. No matter who was president, the virus would likely have created a crisis, just as it has in Europe.

But it’s also important to be clear about the responsibility that does fall on Trump. His months of denial — and his acceptance of the testing fiasco — meant that the United States has and is failing to isolate people with the virus, as South Korea and Singapore did. His refusal to fix the medical-supply crisis means that the virus is unnecessarily spreading in hospitals and that Americans will unnecessarily die.

The severity of the virus, in turn, will make the economic downtown worse and longer lasting. And Trump will be partly at fault. A reality-based response in January and February would have produced a different economy in April and May.
[…and God forbid the social distancing restrictions are relaxed too soon, as he has expressed being in favor of- because the curve will very likely steepen drastically- again increasing the number of deaths…]

There is still a lot of uncertainty about the next few months. Maybe coronavirus will turn out to be much less virulent than now seems likely. If so, that would be wonderful. If not, the president will deserve significant responsibility — for the human toll, for the depth of the recession, all because of his refusal to act when he could have.

@Willijs3 They do make White Cheddar Cheetos.

@DrWorm @Willijs3 the white cheetos are for orange skidmark’s Charlottesville base…

@cjester66 That may be. I wouldn’t place a bet either way, but I can’t imagine Joe being worse than the Donald in any regard, except possibly – he might give even worse speeches. Or die. (Hope he picks a good VP.) I wish the Dems had gone with Klobuchar, myself.

@InnocuousFarmer it would be good to have a president that you can be proud in instead of embarrassed by.

@Stumpy91 Trump doesn’t really embarrass me. He makes me despair for the human species. But once you’re there, the world basically makes sense. People are idiots on purpose, most of them, even the “good” ones. Exceptions are rare and mostly irrelevant. That’s the ball game. That’s all you get.

I hope you get to feeling better @Felton10.

@Felton10

@DennisG2014 My dad always said that Congress was a good example of “poly-ticks” - as in “many blood-sucking parasites.”

@DennisG2014 Nope, All of the Democrat Senators voted no. Get the facts straight.

@DennisG2014 Thanks, Dennis - this is my biggest frustration over the last couple of decades. The devolution of civil political discourse with the rush to polarization. I’ve had really smart people whom I highly respect tell me when I stated an opinion on a particular policy that I “support everything XXXX does” or “reject everything XXXX stands for”. It’s nuts.

@DennisG2014 @Sugaree1956 $500 Billion earmarked for corporations – with no accountability? What could possibly go wrong right? Trickle down economics has proven NOT to work on multiple occasions. What makes you think it’s going to be different this time?

In 2008, Republican senators were chanting “let them fail” in regards to the auto industry bailouts – which were loans. They were citing fiscal responsibility for corporations.

Well, what is it?

@Sugaree1956
Here’s where I give you the complete facts that provide a balanced view-point that shows that both sides are acting in bad-faith.
Then you reject any such facts that portray your side as doing anything wrong and the other side as doing anything right.
Then I summon every ounce of self-control I have to try to remain civil, appeal to reason and not attack your intelligence.
Then you paint me with a broad brush and characterize me as a part of some nonexistent, monolithic, brainwashed cabal trying to destroy everything this country has ever stood for.
Then I remember the futility of debates like this, disengage and wish you the best of luck with your beliefs.

I’ve resolved to just skip to the last step and avoid all the frustration and ill-will.
It’s not always easy to do, it takes a good measure of self-awareness and self-control, which I can’t always summon, but always end up regretting it when I don’t.

Good luck with the way you see the world. I hope it all works out for you.

@narfcake See my post above.
We as a society have been so effectively divided into opposing teams that reasonable, rational, fact based discussions are just not possible any more.

EVERYONE believes the other side is delusional, indoctrinated, brainwashed, stupid and wrong.

As certain as anyone is that they are the ones who are right and dealing in facts, the person on the other side is just as certain and no one will budge.

I don’t know what the answer is to this dilemma but I know that discussion and debate have become utterly futile and it’s not at all worth engaging with someone whose mind will not be changed. Which is all of us right now.

@DennisG2014 I think I disagree. It’s a minority, is all. Most people who are interested in politics have gotten sucked in, and confuse it with football, sure. Their only motive in a forum with strangers is to win. And the people you could talk to aren’t interested, mostly, but there do still remain exceptions.

I think for a conversation, you need shared motive, a shared agreement on basic facts, and, at least ideally, a preference for means over ends – don’t worry about keeping score, only try to believe what is true, especially if it involves the painful process of revising your own opinions. If you find that all first (in yourself and your partner), you can have a conversation about anything.

The people who support Trump and his political allies don’t agree with the rest of us on basic facts, that is exactly the problem.
And they feel the same way about those of us who don’t support him.

Trump is their Tom Brady and the Republican party is their team. Some of them have even only started rooting for that team since he was elected, even though they never have before - because they love the quarterback.

You know how Patriots fans felt about deflate-gate and the other allegations of cheating?
I live in MA, so I do know…
“Fuck you. Brady and the Pats are the GOAT. They didn’t cheat, they don’t need to cheat to win. You have to accuse them of cheating because your team sucks and you’re jealous and can’t handle the fact that the Patriots always win and your team always loses. Your team loses because they suck; they always have and always will and the same goes for you for supporting them and not the Patriots.”

As someone who doesn’t give a rat’s ass about sports and which team wins, I know that they most likely did cheat and that every other team almost certainly does exactly the same stuff but doesn’t get caught because they’re not making themselves a target of scrutiny by winning so much.

Anyway - I believe it is the internet that has enabled such extreme polarization.
Not only is there more information at our fingertips than ever before, there’s also more mis- and disinformation than ever before.
Anyone, with any belief or opinion, can find and cherry-pick a wealth of “evidence” to support their position, or create it and spread it if necessary.
The surge in people who are willing to believe the Earth is flat is a prime example of this.

Trump and his administration inflamed the problem by inventing and promoting the notion of “alternate facts”.
People have been given permission and validity to choose what is “true” according to what they want to believe.
Once they’ve made that choice, the only valid “facts” are the ones that reinforce what they’ve decided to believe, the rest is fake news.

If someone gets their “facts” from a person like Alex Jones - believing anything he says even after he has claimed he is a “performance artist” prone to episodes of “psychosis” in order to avoid charges of defamation - that person is not capable of being reasoned with or having their mind changed as to what is real and what is not.

@DennisG2014 I posted elsewhere in this thread about my experiences and one of the things my husband repeatedly asked me when I sent him links (that he would actually read).

Him: How can these people lie like this when it’s so easily disproven?

Me: You tell me.

When he listened to the hate radio, I would tell him “you know those guys are just trying to get people stirred up, right? So more people listen and the stations can charge more for advertising? They’re laughing all the way to the bank. They’re just entertainers, nothing else.”

@cinoclav
And I hope you and your mother stay safe. Mine is in assisted living and they let someone who returned from vacation abroad return to work immediately without getting tested because she doesn’t have a temperature. She is in and out of my mother’s room multiple times a day on her shift. Dumb fucks. They should know better. I am glad your mother can recover at home. That, hopefully, will keep her safer.

@Kidsandliz Thank you. Wishing you and your mother the very best, not just during this crisis but forever after.

@cinoclav Praise Jesus!
You’re telling the righteous truth here!
/giphy preach

@cinoclav @PhysAssist amen, and thank you for your deep dedication and courage. We owe all medical professionals our profound gratitude…

@robson Aw shucks…

@Sugaree1956 keep in mind that the comments here are from users, not staff. Staff has a flask icon next to their name.

@Sugaree1956 I’m with you. There are no simple answers. Someone needs to watch out for mental health too. I would be surprised if there isn’t a suicide spike with this as well. Pointing fingers won’t help anyone.

@sammydog01 @Sugaree1956 Sammy - you have nailed it. Most of the work I am doing right now is with those who provide support services to folks with mental health and/or substance use issues. Talk about organizations in a crisis. Gives new meaning to the term “essential services”. I would go so far as saying finger pointing actually makes things worse as it adds to the feeling of despair.

@Sugaree1956 Doing all they can? They’ve pushed away Dr. Fauci, the one intelligent voice to have spoken during all those pressers. Now, against the advice of the professionals, he’s talking about reducing the stay-at-home restrictions, believing that’s the answer to improving the economy. The only thing he’s trying to keep safe is his and his cronies bank accounts.

@Sugaree1956 I will never reconsider my disrespect for this piece of shit. He is trying to disregard the recommendations of health care professionals re social distancing. All he cares about is his reelection chances. So fuck him, fuck the Republicans in Congress who have their lips firmly attached to his ass, and fuck the idiots who still support this piece of human garbage.

@Sugaree1956 no, I have plenty of respect (and Empathy) For the Doctors and Specialists, esp the ones working face to face WITH the President.
HE (the President) has EARNED every bit of my lack of respect for him, by repeatedly, Bald Faced LYING about the situation, then getting mad when the actual experts contradict him minutes later.

these hours long daily “briefings” (which are anything but brief), would be much better, more concise, and frankly, FACTUAL, if he didn’t attend them, and just let the members of the task force have their say. Pence would still be there to tow the party line, but lately he’s sounded much more “presidential” than Trump.

as an example. the whole Debacle with Peter Alexander the other day.

a bit later in the conference, a similar question was asked of mike pence, and he gave a calm, sensible, presidential sounding response.

(not that I am in anyway endorsing Mike Pence, most of his speeches you can hear him climbing up trumps ass…stopping short of calling him “My Prince”)

@earlyre @Sugaree1956 you do bring up a good point on the amount of time the President is in front of the mic vs. the others, especially the medical folks. I think he’s trying to fight a second battle of PR, using these briefings to speak directly to the American people. But especially because he has become such a polarizing figure, and because his penchant for giving good news often leads him to get ahead of the experts, this may be a time when less from him is more.

@Sugaree1956 I respect the office, but not the man whatsoever.

@earlyre 50th District of California reps: Duke Cunningham (prison). Duncan Hunter (on his way to prison).

We have no rep at this time.

Now, Darrell Issa is running for that seat.

God save us all.

@shahnm Folks are entitled to post their opinions here. Just know that we [the moderators] have been watching to make sure that it doesn’t devolve into a thread of pettiness.

@shahnm Agreed.
I don’t care which “side” you’re on.
This conversation never ends well.
This is not the public square, this is a privately hosted forum and the owners have every right to moderate and engage in censorship in order to maintain a community that is civil and enjoyable for everyone.

This community has done a very good job, up to this point, of steering clear of these kind of inevitably polarizing discussions.

Conversations that encourage criticisms of another’s political or religious beliefs should be discouraged and avoided.

@shahnm Yeah, I just read this this morning, and honestly? I’ve lost a little respect for some. Others I don’t know, so I haven’t lost anything there.

I’d sure like a mute/ignore function.

@BadTouchRobot I like how Biden is always so crystal clear and never slurs or screws up what he says.

@therealjrn I never mentioned Biden. Our Vice President is Pence.

@BadTouchRobot Yeah, you did not. Mea culpa. My press agent @f00l will be along shortly to clear things up.

@therealjrn You do realize that Joe Biden has a fought a lifelong stuttering problem, right? That’s why he so often seems to stumble over his words or change what he’s saying mid-sentence.

@cinoclav Yer a lying dog faced pony soldier.

@cinoclav I knew better than to post here. It’s like throwing a pork chop into a bunch of snarling dogs.

I hereby rescind my Biden comment.

@cinoclav @therealjrn I’m staying out of politics other than asking people to be nice but that post was hilarious.

@therealjrn Lol - You wouldn’t be the first to not know it and think that he’s completely demented. (He’s only partially demented.)

@cinoclav Thanks for understanding

@Kyeh EXACTLY!!!

I think we may just be…sisters from different misters! (and Moms)

@llangley Haha, I think you may be right! I sent my (birth)sister a link to the chat we had about your quilt and our moms, and she thought it was pretty amazing too.

@Kyeh but…but…but… I DO. I DO have to click on it. The voices tell me “click…click…you know you want to…”

The only way to hush them is to click and see all of these names I’ve never seen before…

@lisaviolet No, don’t do it, don’t do it - and DON’T TOUCH YOUR FACE!!! (I know what you mean though - I can’t resist either. Kind of the way I can’t resist watching those awful presidential press conferences out of morbid curiosity, and hoping somehow to hear something worthwhile, but usually that only happens when the actual experts like Dr. Fauci are allowed to speak!)

@chienfou How could anyone miss it…?!?

@Felton10 So much hate in you. You sound very scared and helpless.

I hope you get to feeling better soon. And I mean that, human to human.

@therealjrn You are correct. I will feel better when that toilet floater and all the shit that surrounds him is flushed down toilet and this country can return to normalcy. I feel sorry …

{VMod edited.}

@f00l … that’s good, right?

@InnocuousFarmer

/youtube eve of distruction

@f00l @InnocuousFarmer
/youtube love and rockets eve of destruction remix

@f00l @InnocuousFarmer
/youtube red rockers eve of destruction

@InnocuousFarmer @mike808

/youtube fortunate son

@f00l
/giphy this one goes to eleven

@mike808

These sorts of topics are, I guess, good for venting or trolling or insulting or bravely proclaiming whatever one is convinced of.

I doubt much opinion is moved even .00001% tho.

Serious discussion of hot button, strongly felt topics involves a notable degree of civility, respect, trust in the other participants’ basic intellectual honesty, and a universal willingness to listen and to seriously consider other POVs.

There are places where those sorts of discussions still happen, I suppose. But at least recently, rarely do productive discussions on hot button topics happen within public fora.
At least, not that I’ve observed.

@f00l
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge. —— Isaac Asimov

@f00l Eve of destruction (grin)

@f00l @mike808 I’m pretty sure I’ve mentioned this before, but I married a Republican.

What can I say, he treated me like a queen, he respected my genius (lol) and quirks. He was quiet and sweet and I swear I hit life’s jackpot with him.

The political differences didn’t hit until the Bill Clinton years (we got married in 1985). There were times he had me in tears with his lack of empathy for those with less (glass contractor, he worked in high end homes - check out https://www.redfin.com/CA/Coronado/631-Ocean-Blvd-92118/home/5795358 - his little company did the glasswork, even the stairway. I have pictures of the skylights being installed).

Anyway, the bush recession hit and his company took a huge hit. He ended up closing that and starting a little one.

The upside of the little company, the one he has now, is he spent a lot less time on the road listening to hate radio. You know what I mean. And when he’d come home and blather on about what this guy said or that guy said and I just sent him links to articles that pointed out the fallacies in what those guys were spewing (I’d learned that trying to talk to him about it just got him defensive).

For me, the turning point was when Romney was running and had that 47% comment about they don’t count, they didn’t pay taxes anyway. Because people who don’t pay taxes are lazy and suck.

I stopped him and kinda sorta set him straight on that. I told him “you know that 47% who doesn’t pay taxes? We’re in that group. We didn’t pay taxes last year.”

Like I said, his glass business was hit, money wasn’t coming in, I had my gall bladder out and shit insurance, so that cost us quite a bit of money and more went out than came in (thank God for his mom, who lent us enough to get out of the hole).

He didn’t go on as much after that and back in 2016, when all but one of the Republican candidates was personally called by God to run (we are NOT religious) and the one left standing was trump, with his bankruptcies and bad business practices (maybe not so bad for him, but HORRIBLE for those who did the work, we’ve been there with those types of customers and Brian’s feelings where “this guy can’t run a business, he’ll do a horrible job running the country”), well, that was it for him and the GOP.

He switched parties in May 2016.

@f00l @lisaviolet @mike808 I know this is kind of tangential, but I never took that 47% comment as anything other than a sleep-deprived man trying to schmooze with rich people about how rich they were together, the better to beg for money.

The comment was too stupid to be sincere. Obviously lower income brackets include Republican voters. I mean… obviously.

That’s a perfect fit for the category of “Wait what did I just say? Crap, maybe nobody will notice.”

@InnocuousFarmer

Obviously lower income brackets include Republican voters. I mean… obviously.

And PT Barnum said there’s one born every minute. Some people are just too ignorant and bigoted to realize they’re voting against their own self-interest, and in the case of healthcare and the ACA, their own lives. If Darwin is what it takes to evolve beyond eye-for-eye tribalism, then sucks to be a Republican.
/image Matt Goetz gas mask

@f00l @InnocuousFarmer @mike808 Well, the thing (at the time) was my husband agreed with the idea that people who don’t pay taxes are lazy and don’t want to work and they have no problem sucking at the public tit (my words, not his). You see that right now with Lindsey Graham saying that on unemployment under this thing they’re working on, that nurses will make $24 an hour on unemployment and won’t want to go back to work.

It may have been “just words” on Romney’s part, but a big segment of society truly believes that. Maybe he doesn’t. But people do. My husband did.

And he has to be one of the hardest working people I’ve known in my life. This was one time I had to throw a little reality into his face.

@mike808 That sentiment has always bothered me as being intellectually dishonest Democratic spin.

I don’t think people should consider self-interest first when voting. That so many people don’t, and maybe have (perhaps, partially misplaced) faith that diligence and effort will pay off, speaks well of them. Honestly, it’s one of the things I like best about conservatives.

@narfcake I don’t mind the cat pics. I’m allergic to cats and cannot have real ones…

@JnKL
/image cat allergies

Watch as the lies unfurl while medical experts (including his own) ATTEMPT to tell the truth.

Doing all he can!

@Pufferfishy Trump occasionally does tell the unvarnished truth but somehow his supporters don’t hear him when he does.
This is all anyone needs to know about what concerns him during this crisis:

He wanted to strand sick American citizens on a ship, not allow them back onto U.S. soil.
Not because he thought it would keep anyone safer but because he thought it wouldn’t be “fair” that those people would have to be counted in the tally of sick people on U.S. soil.
“The numbers” is what concerned him, not the people.
He didn’t think it would be fair to add (what was it, 21 people? I can’t find the number atm) a couple of dozen to the number of sick people in the U.S. because “it wasn’t our [his] fault”.
He acknowledges that it wasn’t the fault of the people on the ship but, if he could have it his way he’d say fuck 'em anyway.

Now - that is what he said in the video above - there’s no debating it, he stated it clearly; he would rather have kept those people on that ship because he liked where the numbers were and didn’t want to have to double the numbers by being forced to count them by letting them come home.

I don’t believe he has said out loud what I am about to claim, but I think it can easily, fairly and reasonably be inferred by what he said about the cruise ship passengers and how he handled the viral outbreak in the early days (up until only a week, or maybe two, ago):

President Donald Trump did not want to make Covid-19 testing available because more testing would mean more confirmed cases.
More confirmed cases would mean that all important number would rise.
Trump considers that number his personal global pandemic score.
Like golf, the lowest score wins. And just like many people who’ve played golf with him have reported, Trump is perfectly willing to lie about his score so that he can continue to call himself “winner”.

And this isn’t unique to the pandemic, he has approached his entire Presidency the same way; all that matters are the numbers - his score - and his numbers can only be “the best”. Only the best numbers count. Anyone who reports any bad numbers is the enemy of the American people.

Trump has told the truth about himself on many occasions, you only have to know where to look.
He has admitted, many times, that the key to being successful is to never admit when you’re wrong, never admit when you’ve made a mistake. Losses only exist for losers. Winners are those who do not admit defeat, ever.

His ego is the most important thing to him and he will sacrifice anything and anyone to protect it.

Here’s a fairly complete timeline of “Doing the best he can”.

https://thebulwark.com/warnings-ignored-a-timeline-of-trumps-covid-19-response/

@Brasssong

No need to respond? Dude! It’s meh!

@Brasssong given the subject line, WTF did you expect? I didn’t realize you were here, so I probably won’t realize that you are missing… BUT I do hope you have a good day. And thanks for letting us know.

I can’t believe no one has posted this yet.

@cinoclav I’m kind of a newbie so haven’t seen this before - love it !

@therealjrn Still trying to relitigate the 2018 election? “Elections have consequences” I heard a bunch of people say. Smart people. Very fine people. Lots of them. Sad. It’ll be fantastic.
SO MUCH WINNING!

That wasn’t the election I was talking about @mike808

@therealjrn Why would it be suspended? This will all be over on Easter Sunday.

@therealjrn Don’t worry. When all the hypocritical evangelicals attend Easter Services at Trump’s urging and infect each other and if the election is postponed and finally held and Trump won’t get enough votes for him to be elected dogcatcher.

@Felton10 You didn’t read. The 2020 presidential election will have to be suspended silly.

@lisaviolet Well, they can’t have it both ways. All I have seen is ridicule about the Easter date. Yeah…looks like it’s going to be on later, right? So not out of the realm of possibility that we’re going to have to push the election back a bit.

@therealjrn Will the 2020 election be suspended?

/8ball
My reply is no

@lisaviolet :grumble: Foiled by the 8ball again. Heh

@therealjrn Just out of curiousity (and while I wait for the dollar font/design special to start on fontbundles.net) I did a little looking and found this website.

Pretty interesting.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

@lisaviolet Interesting to see everything ranked like that.

@therealjrn Numbers are actually skewed due to a severe lack of testing supplies. America had opportunities to obtain them before hand … but well, you know.

@Trinityscrew can you put that to music?

@Trinityscrew REALLY sensational counterpoints to the dozens of facts posted above. (and absolutely what every Supporter is saying, because there’s really nothing else to day)

Well done - free MAGA hats for your whole fam.

@Pufferfishy @Trinityscrew Those red caps made in China?

@Trinityscrew I mean, there’s far more evidence to support that claim than to support the claims from the previous 8 years that “BLACK MAN BAD!!”

Actually, it wasn’t just those 8 years. You all are still saying it.
“ORANGE MAN GOOD!! BLACK MAN BAD!!”

@Pufferfishy That’s just rude…(laughing hysterically, though).

@Pufferfishy I think this pic is photo shopped. Now if it was of Malaria Tramp, I could believe it. That is how she made a living before she married tRump.

@Trinityscrew Now that you have …

{VMod edited.}

@Felton10 @Trinityscrew @Pufferfishy
wait… maybe I missed something, but it seems to me that he is voicing the same opinion you are… so what’s the beef?

@chienfou @Pufferfishy @Trinityscrew That might be true, but no one cares what I say, but there are a lot of misinformed people out there who hang on his every lying word and believe everything he says.

@Felton10 @Pufferfishy @Trinityscrew
/giphy true dat!

SWIDT?

@therealjrn And who owns the WSJ?

(I really don’t trust most of the news sites. Every single one has an agenda.)

@lisaviolet @therealjrn I cannot be bothered to look. Who does own the WSJ? I assume Disney?

@JnKL @therealjrn Nope, Fox didn’t sell off the news portion of the company. Rupert Murdoch owns it.

@JnKL @lisaviolet @therealjrn

WSJ is usually a v good source for hard financial and other related news reporting, as long as one understand what they do and don’t focus on in their reporting.

Their opinion section, not so much.
Sometimes you get serious thought or serious quality in an opinion section.

But, often these section essays (WSJ and NYT and other “quality” sources) contain the same v predictable, not comprehensively studied or reasoned, opinions one might see/hear elsewhere.

Opinion essays are kinda often not worth the reading time:
unless the writer is a fairly non-partisan (as much as possible), genuine, expert; makes his/her limitations openly clear to the reader; and brings a quality perspective that could use more attention.

@f00l @JnKL @lisaviolet I thought the above opinion piece was spot-on, considering.

@JnKL @lisaviolet @therealjrn

You got a non-paywall linky?

I “subscribe” to WSJ thru Apple News. But sometimes finding a specific WSJ article that way (the Apple app) is a pain.

@f00l @JnKL @therealjrn Not me.

@f00l @JnKL @lisaviolet
https://www.wsj.com/articles/private-industry-mobilizes-against-the-coronavirus-11585091775?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

@f00l @JnKL @lisaviolet @therealjrn Agree!! @f00l opinion pieces are usually spot on!!

@f00l @JnKL @lisaviolet @llangley
So much of the “news” is just disguised opinion pieces I like it when they label their opinion pieces as such.
Cheers (I don’t drink, but enjoy yours and your doggy and the sunshine)

@therealjrn thanks, I am. It’s a little early for drinking but the skies are blue, dogs are snoozing and I have my meds. PLUS I scored some TP just as I was breaking out the paper towels

@JnKL @lisaviolet @llangley @therealjrn

True pure political objectivity in reporting and in debate doesn’t currently exist and is prob not currently possible. From any source.
It may never be possible.

So the kinda best we can do at present us “moré objectivity” as opposed to “less objectivity”.

So, what are the guidelines for that?

How comprehensive are their conclusions?

Does the news source state, discuss, and attempt to account for, its own biases and limitations? (This is rare)
If not, then do they therefore limit the scope of their conclusions?

Is the source prone to exaggeration/straw man/extreme worst yet unlikely case arguing?

Does it attempt to weigh facts and info fairly?

Does it attempt to concede to “the other side” when “the other side” clearly has a good point?

Does it use linguistic and rhetorical tricks to skew the presentation? Or not?

Is it respectful to “the other side” as long as “the other side” is represented by civilized people?

Do the writers attempt to include and weigh all the facts they can possibly manage?

If they are leaving stuff out, do they acknowledge the limitation?

Many/most news sources don’t do all that well with these and similar criteria; but some are markedly worst than others.
Some aren’t anywhere close to “news”. They are just sales pitches.

Re the comment that “straight news” is not purely objective:
Of course it’s not.
There is a serious “world enough and time” problem with a report attempting to be purely objective. Not to mention the limits of individual and traditional institutional POVs.

But … some sources are consistently better. And other sources are consistently worse.
Amd some reputable sources can occasionally screw up big time; some less reputable sources can surprise the reader with a “gem”.

I find a taking at least a look at variety of wide spectrum sources to be the usual “best bet”. It’s not perfect.

(When one has the free time)

And in a “straight news” article, there may be useful info which can be evaluated by the reader, apart from whatever the news source says about it all.

Straight opinion pieces are less likely to have this extra reason for at least skimming the article, and more likely to be deliberately skewed and narrow, or to use rhetorical techniques to drive a particular conclusion to the exclusion of other possibilities.

So, I usually prefer “straight news”. From a variety of sources. Even with its limitations and lack of pure objectivity.

Reading critically, reading with an eye for biases, rhetorical tricks, straw men, and critical omitted facts, info, and arguments, etc, is my preferred way.
(to the limit if my time, energy, and capacities, of course.)

And that practice, to the limits of our abilities, does NOT yield objective opinions. Ever.
Tho it may yield better or improved opinions.

We all have limits. And even if we all read critically, there is still be much unknown, and much we have no handle on. And much we will disagree on.

@f00l Try http://mediabiasfactcheck.com/
You can use the search window to look for specific publications. Of course, someone will ask about the bias of the bias checkers. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I dunno - maybe there’s a group for that somewhere.

@rockblossom
Yeah, sites like that are good. Esp re confirmable facts and omissions.

But they don’t really cover larger intrinsic “biases of overall perspective” and what could be called ”zeitgeist biases”.

For instance, most of what we get all hot over right now (self included) will look quite quaint and “old-timey politically illiterate” in 100 years, let along a longer stretch.

Esp, I suspect, re issues of economics, and issues of social conduct. We will just know that much more, and we will have worked a lot of stuff out over time.

Or not. It’s possible to go in really bad long term directions. I hope it’s unlikely.

The US has shown substantial resiliency thru all sorts of stress and horror. I hope we still have plenty of both decency and grit left for today and tomorrow.

I hope.

/youtube Beatles here comes the sun

“The WHO is fake news”… in 3… 2… <cough> 1…

@Kyeh Yikes!!! I’d LOL but…yikes!!!

@llangley I thought it was one of the cleverest Photoshop jobs I’ve ever seen!

@Felton10 This reads like something Donald Trump would say about House Democrats or members of the media, except not as clever.

(No, I did not vote for the President.)

@Limewater I know-sorry I have to sink to his level, but obviously insults, name calling, stupid threats and intimidation are the only things his low information base understands.

@Felton10 I’m going to abstain from sarcasm for fear that is won’t come across.
This is bullshit. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, and you clearly were not attempting to communicate with Trump voters by starting a thread about “The orange cheeto prov[ing] his stupidity.”
You say you’re “sinking to his level,” but you’re just not as good at it as he is. He’s been dunking on people for decades.
If you’re going to do this, practice and up your game. I’m sure you can be funny if you try.