If we aren't our thoughts, what are we?

@therealjrn
LOL

@Fuzzalini I don’t buy the theory that other people can “make” you feel anything, particularly negative feelings. You and only you have the power to choose your feelings.

If others are responsible for your negative feelings, then they must also be responsible for your positive feelings as well. But that never hapoens, does it? If I can make you mad or depressed or feel used, then how is it that I can’t make you feel serene or happy or loved?

Other people influence our experiences, but how one interprets them to form emotions around those experiences is entirely self-selected.

I think this is related to the notion that an all-powerful “God” is responsible for all the good/wonderous things in life, like a long life, success, surviving - called “miracles” or “blessings”, while at the same time, rejecting that same omnipotent “God” is not the cause of and is powerless to stop the bad/terrible things in life.

We are just afraid to admit uncomfortable truths about ourselves (e.g. failure), so we blame others as a psyche self-protection mechanism.

@Fuzzalini @mike808

If others are responsible for your negative feelings, then they must also be responsible for your positive feelings as well. But that never hapoens, does it? If I can make you mad or depressed or feel used, then how is it that I can’t make you feel serene or happy or loved?

This is a false premise. People attribute their positive emotions to others all the time.

The prevalence of that notion in popular music should be sufficient evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You've_Made_Me_So_Very_Happy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Kiss_(Faith_Hill_song)

or the stereotypical marriage proposal:

“Would you marry me? And make me the happiest man in the world?”

@Limewater @mike808 I never said other people make you feel things. In fact, we are all responsible for how we react to anything. I don’t know why you said this in response to my post.

@Fuzzalini @Limewater I’m saying the whole premise that other people are somehow responsible for your feelings is complete hogwash. The only person responsible for your feelings is you.

People attributing their feelings to someone else is pure projection and transference. Which is why they tend to be negative feelings. We don’t like to admit responsibility for our part in their making.

@Fuzzalini @Limewater I was replying to Fuzzalini’s post, not commenting on yours directly.

@Limewater @mike808 I agree with what both of you are saying, but the response from limewater to my post doesn’t have anything to do with what I said, making it look like perhaps what I said promoted blaming others or depending on others for our feelings. He just hijacked my post.

@Fuzzalini @mike808 I quoted a block from mike808’s post as the start of my post. I thought it was pretty clear that I was responding to what he wrote, not what you wrote.
I don’t know why this would be considered a “hijacking.”

@Fuzzalini @mike808

I’m saying the whole premise that other people are somehow responsible for your feelings is complete hogwash. The only person responsible for your feelings is you.

But so far the only argument you have made for this position is the claim that people never attribute positive emotions to other people, which is demonstrably false.

I’m not saying your conclusion is wrong. I think it’s pretty clear that individuals bring something to their own emotional state. Otherwise everyone would react the same way to similar circumstances, which is also demonstrably false.

@Fuzzalini @Limewater @mike808

@mike808 has a decent philosopher’s perspective on this.
But when we are involved in day to day stress, we aren’t the Buddha or Socrates at those moments. And I would guess that Socrates and the Buddha had to deal with all this “human stuff” also.

Emotions are complex beasts. And are slower and less malleable than “pure thoughts” are”.

No one is in full control of their emotions, in the sense of being able to switch them in and off or entirely direct their course.

And some events (such as the extremes of sudden and unexpected stark danger, or humiliation, etc) produce the same emotional response in just about every human when viewed by medical/neurological monitoring.

However, what is seen as “danger” or “humiliation” or some other “provocative event” can vary widely, according to the perspective of the person involved. Persons who develop better, more evolved, and more complex mental maps of their own experiences/reactions and of personal/social relationships tend to have better personal and emotional outcomes.

We are, or ought to be, in full control of how we express our emotions and what actions we take under emotional duress.

Emotions aren’t excuses for horrid conduct. Esp if the person who committed the conduct never owns the it, makes amends, or deals with the underlying problems.

Having healthy emotional responses is far easier for some than others. The brain (including emotional tendencies) is potentially quite malleable for the very young. In a healthy and positive-growth environment, with healthy adult caregivers, these children will likely grow to be emotionally complex and competent adults who make good decisions and who handle stress fairly well.

Children whose brains are wired differently, or children who grow up in chaotic or emotionally damaging environments are often pushed into repeated extreme, unpleasant emotional responses when quite young, and these repetitions seem (afaik) to become a form of brain/neurological hard-wiring. The unhelpful/damaging reaction get automated status and get labeled “instant emergency response” by the brain. .

These persons, grown to adulthood, can learn to moderate their thinking/responses in better directions, and become more emotionally strong, but it’s very tough getting there. For starters, a limited perspective on what’s going on can get in the way for some.
Others have terrible times learning to not be in painful states of being all the time, sometimes because they can’t really conceive of any alternative. They’ve never experienced safety and goodness as something to be expected. They have no ideal it could be real.

And there is no sure path or prescription toward improvement, and often a lot of anxiety, depression, or other dysfunction comes along the way.

This is the instant pop version of what little understanding I have. And my understandings are somewhat out of date.
It’s a huge topic that needs more examination.

@f00l I am this old.
/image popeye the sailor

@f00l Back in the dinosaur ages when Jiffy Pop was a thing, they had a special offer for a shirt, less than five bucks.

A Popeye shirt with him saying “I yam what I yam”.

That was one of my favorite shirts.

@lisaviolet I was waiting for that… thanks!