How to handle the east coast gas panic.

@ybmuG Yes please do I doubt the Owner will mind!

@ybmuG I’m curious about their plan to get the fuel out of the storage. Hold the bag over a funnel and punch a hole in the bottom?

(While smoking a cigarette?)

(Assuming they even reach their destination before the gas dissolves the plastic…)

@phendrick you use this word “plan”…

@narfcake I keep waiting for “natural selection” to do it’s thing, but apparently evolution is orders of magnitude slower than virus mutation.

@narfcake @phendrick I think the problem is that they have already procreated before natural selection individually gets them.

@Kidsandliz @narfcake @phendrick “Natural Selection” says that nature selects what it selects. Clearly y’all and Nature have some sort of disagreement.

@Kidsandliz @Limewater @narfcake @phendrick
Arthur C. Clarke’s Law:
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.

@blaineg @Limewater @narfcake @phendrick

Arthur C. Clarke’s Law:
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.

However the reverse may be true - that lack of intelligence leads to more deaths by idiocy if the stars don’t align right. Might not be one continuous variable. Might be two variables.

@Kidsandliz @Limewater @narfcake @phendrick To be fair to Clarke, he was specifically addressing atomic weapons.

@Star2236 Yep, the Toilet Paper too!

@mycya4me @Star2236 can we mix the TP and the gas in the back of a car while shooting off fireworks???

@mycya4me @Star2236 @tinamarie1974 Self- throwing Molotov Cocktail?

@earlyre at least she’s following the rule to put your gas container on the ground while filling…

Not that she’ll ever be able to lift it.

Like that’s the biggest issue with this

@earlyre @ybmuG
Where are the gas station people and why are they not shutting off the pumps for these people? Like they have a problem selling gas. Around where I live there a lot more observant and would shut that shit off.

@earlyre @Star2236 @ybmuG
White privilege?

@earlyre @ybmuG

Not that she’ll ever be able to lift it.

HAHAHA - when my kid was in grade school she filled the canoe with water in the back yard. I told her if she fills it she is going to be the one to empty it; water is heavy. She informed me no problem, she will just flip the canoe over. She was bailing for several hours over several days (I helped out with that but didn’t tell her) before she could flip it.

@Kidsandliz ooooh missed a super opportunity to demonstrate the siphon effect though

@Kidsandliz @replicacobra
And model “work smarter, not harder” problem-solving skills. Gravity works 24x7 and harder than your muscles can.

@replicacobra Actually I wasn’t going to make it easy for her based on what went on before she filled it and the discussion we had on the subject prior. I, actually, did some siphoning behind her back to keep the consequence of her choice to only last a reasonable amount of time.

She was a hard headed kid who struggled with rules and anticipating consequences of actions (for actions that didn’t have natural consequences like bailing the water out, the “other” consequence was take away everything she valued for 1-3 days depending on what it was she did). As a result we had discussion after discussion about consequences of choices; if you don’t like the potential consequence of a choice, make a choice that has a consequence you will like.

Learning for her could be slow and painful. One time she told me it was worth the consequence to do something. I told her then maybe the consequence wasn’t severe enough. She looked horrified. LOL

@Kidsandliz @replicacobra
Having raised four kids to adulthood, my wife and I used to call this “Teenage Brilliance.” We figured if we could bottle it and sell it we’d make a fortune!

@replicacobra @TrophyHusband I used to joke that if I had a jury of my true and actual peers that if I followed Mark Twain’s advice and put her in a pickle barrel and sealed up the knot hole I’d be found innocent of cruel and unusual punishment. Mark Twain said that at 13 you put them a pickle barrel and feed them through the knot hole, at 16 you seal up the knot hole. He did not say when you take them out. Based on my experience not any time soon after turning 16. Of course I only got her at almost 10 so she had a running head start on me.

@earlyre @mike808 @Star2236 @ybmuG

White privilege?

Stupid privilege?

@Star2236 Well, it’s a Wawa so it’s most likely here in PA. That means the odds are there’s no attendant around to pay any attention to her. It’s either pay at the pump or go inside to pay.

@cinoclav @Star2236 We have Wawas in Virginia now. I love them, especially when my tires need air.

@cinoclav @sammydog01
Why?

@cinoclav @Star2236 They have really nice free air pumps with pressure gauges. Just set the pressure you want and hold the handle. The lines get really long first cold day of fall.

@Kyeh back in the 70s, we just waited in long lines. Now i have to worry about idiots like these on the road, too??!!!

@Kyeh @ybmuG Remember odd and even days? Damn I’m old.

@Kyeh @sammydog01 @ybmuG Those were some glory days for me - I bought a gas-gulping muscle car for peanuts, I worked at a gas station and never had to wait in line and I let my girl friend’s dad sneak in after hours for gas, collecting mucho brownie points.

@Kyeh @ybmuG I still remember the time I was two cars away, and I ran completely out and had to be pushed to the pump.

@Kyeh You called it.

https://www.live5news.com/2021/05/14/woman-hoarding-gas-burned-fire-after-chase-car-crash-sc-deputies-say/

@smigit2002 I’m just glad nobody else got hurt or killed! If only idiots could be stupid without endangering anyone else, including those they put at risk to save their sorry arses.

@narfcake So these people have hundreds of dollars to buy this extra gas, but not enough for proper fuel-rated containers…

@mike808 @narfcake I’m sure that fuel-rated containers were all gone from the shelves by Tuesday night.
Not that I expect most of these people to be able to work a modern gas container.
I once stopped and helped two women on the side of the road. One had run out of gas and the other had brought a gas can, but they couldn’t figure out how to worth the new EPA container.

@Limewater @mike808 @narfcake the new epa approved fuel rated containers are pretty nasty pieces of government heavy-handedness. We did family wide buys on Scepter MFCs and NATO jerry cans when the bans on cans that worked well, were resistant to ‘glugging’ and spilling, sealed properly, didn’t need three hands or precarious nozzle-presses, and didn’t generally leak went into effect.

If we had external safe storage (which we don’t currently) I’d probably keep them full and rotate them to do some cost averaging and buffering; kind of expecting $5/gallon or more in the not too distant future, and possible spot shortages due to truck/transport shortfalls.

There were stories in the days before the Colonial pipeline shutdown about stations running short or out of gasoline…

@Limewater @mike808 @narfcake yeah I can’t use those gas cans myself… asked friends to show me so many times, finally got an electric trimmer and mower to avoid dealing with them.

@brasscupcakes @Limewater @mike808 @narfcake @duodec I was at a drift race today, and the announcer’s microphone was running off a generator. The gas ran out and some guy ran to fill it. He had a 5 gallon gas can with a black nozzle and some sort of green safety latch on it. Couldn’t get the latch open. So he pulled off the nozzle and tried to fill the tank but the gas spilled instead of going in. Other guys came to help him and couldn’t figure it out either.

So they used a traffic cone as a funnel. That nozzle totally made the whole procedure much safer.

@brasscupcakes @duodec @Limewater @mike808 @narfcake @sammydog01 i have one of those cans and I had to break the nozzle to get the gas out. It is redic

@mike808 is it bad if i root for the bag to break, just as she gets it into her car?

@ybmuG It doesn’t. She is a double-bagger.

@mike808 @ybmuG I think she should use the more environmentally friendly option of paper bags.

@mike808 Looks like this was 2019.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hoarding-gas-plastic-bags/

@Limewater @mike808 yes, but I did see that the CPSC has issued current warnings against using bags, so it’s either happening currently (my expectation) or they expect it will, especially if all the actual gas containers are sold out.

And the video clearly shows that the first bag did break! Made me chuckle a bit, I have to admit. And unless she is putting the bag inside something that will keep the tied opening on top, it won’t all stay in the bag on the trip home. Imagining the conversation when she got home.

“Why the $@*&^# does the car smell like gas???!!!”

@PooltoyWolf Or this legendary tale.

http://web.archive.org/web/19970209064552/http://www.progress.demon.co.uk/Fun/Trouble-with.html

@blaineg Oh no…

@mike808 Well sure, how you gonna put electricity in a bucket?

Don’t forget all those clips of genius Tesla drivers trying to figure out where to put the gas pump hose.

@blaineg I think these idiots outnumber those idiots by a couple orders of magnitude. Which is sad for the gene pool.

@KENSAI The only trouble with electric is if I want to drive 1000 miles in 2 days it is going to make those 2 days way longer waiting to charge up.

@KENSAI @Kidsandliz That is the only thing holding me back from going EV. I have a couple of trips every year of 1500 miles, and I am hoping battery charging tech improves to the same time to “fill up” as distilled rotted dino juice. It’s close, but still about a 30-50 percent longer. A 15-minute pit stop is about 45 minutes. And when you’re talking a do-able 1-day 10 hour drive in ICE, that makes for a 15 hour drive and a hotel overnight someplace mandatory for an EV.

One day it will happen. I’m patiently waiting for now.

@Kidsandliz If you get a Tesla and there are Tesla Superchargers along the route you’re driving, you can charge pretty fast: if the battery is below 40% I’ve seen 778 miles per hour charging speeds (and I have the slowest charging Tesla, other models take in power even faster). It slows down as the battery gets fuller, but the thing is no one charges to 100% at a supercharger. You charge for 10-15 minutes, enough to get you to the next charger (if you need it). So, yes, there is some additional time. I estimate on my last 1300 mile trip it was about an extra hour in total.

(If I drove a Nissan Leaf or another vehicle other than a Tesla, road trips are kind of impossible unless you like stopping for an hour every time. Hopefully that will change in the next couple of years.)

I’m not the guy who drives for five hours straight, stops for gas in 5 minutes then hits the road. My body can’t take that kind of punishment anymore, I enjoy stopping every two hours. I arrived at my destination more well-rested and stress free than any previous trip going the same way, largely because the car was so fun to drive (and it drove itself some of the way, which is a whole other thing).

But here’s the thing I’ll flip around on you: how much time did you spend getting gas in 2020? Think about every tank refill, every broken pump, every line up, every credit card machine not working so you had to pay in person, etc. over the course of last year. Now total up all that time. Betcha’ it’s 6+ hours at least.

My time spent having a full tank every morning? Zero minutes. My “gas station” is in my garage.

@Kidsandliz @mike808 Tesla makes it really easy to understand how often and where you’d need to charge: https://www.tesla.com/trips (just remember to compare that to getting gas at a pump, not to zero minutes, and also factor in time you’d be stopping for food and bathroom breaks anyway).

Everything I said in the other post applies. You’re right, it’s not as quick as refilling at a gas station. But it’s also not as bad as many people think - I was pleasantly surprised on my first trip how nice it was. The only time it sucked was when it was raining hard, we forgot to pack an umbrella, and the charger was a 5 minute walk from the restaurant. So we sat in the car for 20 minutes to charge, then drove to the restaurant.

I’m not sure where you’re getting the 30-50% longer metric, that’s wildly off from anything I’ve read/experienced. Really depends on the vehicle and the charging network. Maybe if we’re talking a Nissan Leaf stopping at level 2 chargers every 45 minutes. I honestly wouldn’t recommend someone do a road trip in anything BUT a Tesla right now. The US desperately needs a vast high-speed open charging network for all vehicles. It will happen, but we lost four years of progress on it.

And the cost savings vs. gas cars is crazy! I’ve owned my Model 3 SR+ for almost two years now and do you know how much money I’ve spent on maintenance? $3 for windshield wiper fluid, and $35 for tire rotation.

@Kidsandliz Plug in your 1000 mile trip here and tell me what is says, I’m curious: https://www.tesla.com/trips#/

@KENSAI Says 235 minutes of charging and that doesn’t count charging once I get there. Also two of the charges they say are 60 min, one is 40 or 45 or or something. It also adds about 10 miles to the trip (eg same trip on google maps) but I’d imagine that is finding a charging device if they aren’t right on top of the highway.

@KENSAI @mike808 I’d believe the gas savings BUT I also think once there are more of them it will cost money to charge because gas stations, etc. can’t afford to be paying for your travel. As long as there aren’t that many electric cars they are floating it, but I’d suspect there will be an eventual tipping point.

@Kidsandliz Interesting. That means the route you’re going is sparsely populated by Tesla superchargers so it needs the car to get to full charge to make it to the next one. Some of the shorter trips we take are along routes with lots of superchargers and we never have to charge more than 10-15 minutes. Tesla has a lot of superchargers in the USA, but still many more are needed.

Some neat info here:
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

@Kidsandliz @mike808 Oh, Tesla charges now at Superchargers. 21 cents per kW I think. Costs about $4 to “fill up” enough to get to the next station. There are some destination (L2, slow) chargers that are free at shopping malls and whatnot.

Charging at home is where the savings are; road trips in a Tesla is cheaper than gas, but not by a whole lot. However, there’s no wear and tear on other fluids such as oil, transmission, etc. that you get with a gas car. So overall it ends up being cheaper.

Some interesting info here on the total savings of buying an EV over time. Quite a chunk of money: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/owning-an-electric-car-really-does-save-money-consumer-reports-finds/?utm_source=pocket-app&utm_medium=share

@KENSAI @Kidsandliz @mike808

Oh, Tesla charges now at Superchargers. 21 cents per kW I think.

I sure hope that’s 21 cents per kWh and not per kW…

@KENSAI @Kidsandliz
Duration: 14 h 15 min (768 mi) (Route #1)
or
Duration: 15 h 18 min (821 mi) (Route #2)

Normally it is a 10 hour drive with a pit stop for lunch in Memphis and another in Pearl, MS.

So, 4 more hours on top of 10 is a 40% additional time. And 5 pit stops vs 2.

Start, Saint Louis, MO.
Stop #1, Miner, MO, 30 min charge
Stop #2, Memphis, TN, 15 min charge
Stop #3, Grenada, MS, 25 min charge
Stop #4, Pearl, MS, 15 min charge
Stop #5, Hattiesburg, MS, 30 min charge
Destination, Orange Beach, AL.
Duration: 14 h 15 min (768 mi)

The other way we go, goes through Montgomery, AL, and that trip is almost 15 1/2 hours, or a 50% additional travel time:

Stop #1, Miner, MO, 30 min charge
Stop #2, Memphis, TN, 15 min charge
Stop #3, Tupelo, MS, 30 min charge
Stop #4, Birmingham, AL, 25 min charge
Stop #5, Greenville, AL, 30 min charge
Destination, Orange Beach, AL.
Duration: 15 h 18 min (821 mi)

When we’re talking 15 hour drive times, that’s a deal breaker because it almost certainly means an overnight pit stop, and for apples-to-apples cost, the hotel blows the savings from EV vs ICE. On top of the extra 4 hours you’re spending not being at your destination.

With a 10-hour drive, it is tolerable to leave at 9am and arrive around 7pm for check-in and places are still open for dinner. A 15 hour drive makes that a midnight check-in, and the prior pit stop in Greenville, AL, is around 9pm, also very late with limited dinner options. The only reasonable dinner-time pit stop is Birmingham, AL at the 10 hour mark. But it is still a 15-hour long-ass driving day where you don’t get in until midnight. Unless you add in hotel costs for an overnight pit stop.

So, yes, it is very close to that tipping point, but not quite there yet for me. Soon, I hope.

And I hope that the insurrectionist GQP congressional incubator super-spreaders can see past shitting all over their voters interests and getting behind Biden’s infrastructure plan, which I am sure includes renewable energy infrastructure (like open charger networks - maybe even single payer, just like Healthcare-4-All needs to be) and paying for it by rolling back those utterly failed and crack-smoking trickle-down corporate giveaway that screws the middle class of the Trump/McConnell tax cuts that never paid for themselves, and never will.

@KENSAI @Kidsandliz @mike808

And the cost savings vs. gas cars is crazy! I’ve owned my Model 3 SR+ for almost two years now and do you know how much money I’ve spent on maintenance? $3 for windshield wiper fluid, and $35 for tire rotation.

That’s not really all that crazy. For the first two years my wife had her (ICE) Corolla we paid $0 in maintenance because Toyota covered oil changes and tire rotations.

@KENSAI @Kidsandliz I just picked up an EV on Saturday. The battery charge was pretty low on delivery (equipment problem at the dealership), so I stopped at a Chargepoint fast charge station. It took ~40 minutes to add 100 miles of range. Cost was about $3.
The EV is for local day-to-day use - we also have a gas-powered vehicle for longer trips. (PNW, no gas shortage here - yet.) I did a lease on the EV rather than buy because the tech is changing so fast. I think of my friend who bought a Leaf with 75 mile range just a few years ago…

@KENSAI waiting for electric grid to be hacked and then we all screwed but I’m with some of the other commenters, i do road trips and thats not conducive for it. Am excited for the subaru EV though. In several years when i replace mine, i’m hoping it’s advanced enough for roadtrips considering subaru is all about outdoor camping etc. no ev stations in the wild! They would be most motivated to get it right for their clientele base!

@Kidsandliz @mike808 Thanks for the breakdown - I can see now why an EV wouldn’t quite work for you yet. I’ve got two kids and would tend to do a drive like that over two days, but I get that some people are the “drive it all in one day” types and EVs don’t yet have the range or rapid charging to make up for it. Billions are being poured into solving this problem, so I hope you won’t have long to wait.

This might sound mildly odd, but I’ve read about more and more people buying an EV for 99% of their day to day driving, and simply renting a gas vehicle for the few times a year they do a road trip where an EV isn’t a good option. Sounds counter-intuitive, but logically should 1% of your driving dictate your choice of car when 99% of the time an EV would tick all the boxes? Something to think about.

@Kidsandliz @macromeh Congrats on getting the EV! 40 minutes to get 100 miles of range is quite a slow charge, but I don’t have much experience with Chargepoint chargers and it depends on the type of vehicle charging and what % your battery was at. I know Chargepoint is building out DC fast chargers so I hope within a few years every vehicle will be able to easily charge 100 miles in 10 minutes.

Right now having an EV and a gas vehicle is a good compromise - that’s what we have as well, though truth be told if I had $50K to spare right now I’d just to buy a Model Y and be done with gas vehicles forever.

The Leaf is such an interesting case - on the one hand, it was an important early step in EVs and someone had to go first, but on the other it almost single-handedly created the entire range anxiety phenomenon. The small battery and their choice to use air cooling really created some bad impressions of EVs in many people.

@placecm So if the electrical grid were hacked you don’t think we’d all be screwed anyway? Being able to drive a car is less important to me than having light, heat, hot water, etc.

I didn’t honestly consider an EV a reasonable choice for a road trip until I sat in one in a showroom and put in where I wanted to go and it mapped it out for me, told me where I’d need to stop, how long I’d need to charge for, and told me what % of the car battery would be used by each stop. It changed my perspective on road trips in an EV.

@Limewater Nice for you, but not typical. This is worth a read: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/owning-an-electric-car-really-does-save-money-consumer-reports-finds/

@Kidsandliz @Limewater @mike808

Yes, I screwed that up. It’s per kWh. More here on supercharging costs:

https://screenrant.com/tesla-charging-cost-superchargers-home-prices-explained/

@KENSAI @Kidsandliz @Limewater @mike808 my only experience was with a Leaf. One of my co workers “rented” the company electric car to drive from one plant to another. I was following, as I had to head to the airport after our site tour.

Halfway back he turned on his hazzard lights and pulled over to the side of the highway. It was out of juice, just dead and no way to recharge. I had to grab him and get him back to the office nearly missing my flight.

In theory I think an EV is a great idea, but I don’t think our infrastructure has developed enough for me to take the plunge. There needs to be more charging stations for those long haul trips.

Btw, the above trip was like hrs roundtrip.

@tinamarie1974

The Nissan Leaf has done almost more harm than good because it is so severely limited in range, charge speed, and overall technology.

If you want to see where real state of the art EV technology is at, go to your nearest Tesla showroom and do a test drive. Even the cheapest Tesla ($39K, the one I have) makes the Leaf looks like a Model T.

@KENSAI

Nice for you, but not typical. This is worth a read: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/owning-an-electric-car-really-does-save-money-consumer-reports-finds/

Yeah, I read your post the first time. I’m super thrifty, so I’m definitely going to buy a Tesla Model 3 over a BMW 330i. Those are definitely what I’ll be choosing between when I’m trying to save money.

And of course I’d never keep a vehicle more than seven years…

But my point about maintenance costs was that the first two years are the cheapest maintenance years your car should ever have. If you are paying anything significant in maintenance on a car in the first two years you either:
A) bought a specialized vehicle for atypical usage
drive like a maniac
or
C) something is wrong.

It’s not particularly weird that Toyota covers routine maintenance for 2 years. That’s a pretty common offer, and Corollas are an extremely common vehicle. I’ll be more impressed when there are more examples of fifteen-year-old electric vehicles with 200,000 miles. That is a comparison that is relevant to me. I would like to see more real-world battery life examples and replacement costs.
Our next vehicle purchase may well be an electric car, but I don’t expect that to be for another eight years or so.

@Limewater Your sarcasm is so strong it’s practically splashing out of my screen and onto my keyboard.

Yes, the Model 3 is still a luxury car at $40K and not broadly affordable for everyone. I get that. Yet compared to three years ago when the cheapest Tesla was more like $70K, it’s a huge improvement. There should be a sub-$30K EV from Tesla in the next 2-3 years. And soon used Model 3s and Ys will start to become more common, further expanding the available price points for everyone. More EVs will be made by more companies, and as batteries get even cheaper, you’ll see a $20K EV that doesn’t completely suck and still gets 200 miles of range.

Point taken about the maintenance period of vehicles in the first two years. I was coming off owning a ten year old GMC Acadia that was costing me $3-4K a year in maintenance/repairs, so going from that to only having to put in new windshield wiper fluid was a nice change.

Wanting to see data on EVs 15 years old is kind of a high bar to clear, but I can point you to this Model 3 that got 100K miles on it in two years:

https://electrek.co/2020/09/26/tesla-model-3-high-mileage-extreme-low-cost-minimal-battery-degradation/

You may be interested in doing some research on the number and complexity of parts in gas vehicles vs. EVs. It’s rather eye opening!

@KENSAI the Leaf is horrible! They have another hybrid car (cannot remember what it is) that is better and I will use. I feel safer knowing I can switch to gas should the cars charge deplete and not have charging nearby

@KENSAI @Limewater @Kidzandliz
Hmm. Power here is about $0.12/kWh, so charger stations are doubling the price. I also noticed that the first thing our “We Don’t Need No Gubmint Regulations!” Republican city council did was slap a shitload of regulations around anyone wanting to offer up a charging station to the public, even for free.

I’ve also weighed the “rent-an-ICE” for vacations. The problem for me is that I have to pay rental for the 10 days of the vacation when I only need it for 2 (1 day driving each way). And of course, the 1-way charges are more expensive than the round trip with the 8 days in between.

Like I said, it’s really close. I know it will get here. Just not right now.

My real worry is that the clock is running out on the FSD (Full Self-Driving) option for Teslas. I think there is significant risk that Tesla will actually exit the retail sales business and simply make money cars for themselves and eat Uber and Lyft’s lunch when FSD goes full-on live (after jumping through all of the regulatory hoops). They will still service existing vehicles, but only the FSD models will be able to generate revenue for their owners. Either everyone will upgrade to FSD and an instant fleet of car service vehicles will be live, or they will service existing non-FSD vehicles until battery replacement (and then buyback, upgrade, add FSD and put it into service as a Tesla-owned vehicle. That makes some sense, because it means they can give the finger to all those states captured by car dealer interests that shut them out of selling via a dealer network and forced Tesla to sell direct.

It will be interesting, and I hope I have my FSD ER by then.

@KENSAI @mike808

Hmm. Power here is about $0.12/kWh, so charger stations are doubling the price.

That’s probably a pretty good rate given the infrastructure costs of installing charging stations.
Tesla has incentive to expand their SuperCharger network and keep rates low. I’m sure they have no near-term hope of recovering the cost of the station with energy charges, but they’re probably betting (safely) that expanding the charging network will sell more vehicles.

@KENSAI

Wanting to see data on EVs 15 years old is kind of a high bar to clear…

Yes, it is, but I don’t mind waiting.

@Limewater @mike808 Yes, Tesla has to pay rent for the charging stations (they’re always in someone else’s property), and the build-out. Tesla says they don’t look at the charging stations as a profit center, they simply try to recoup their costs.

As for the “FSD robotaxi future” - as much of a Tesla fan as I am, I believe there’s about a 1% chance of it happening. I don’t have FSD and have no plans to buy it anytime soon. It’s still a few years away from being what Musk says it is…but no one has nearly the amount of machine learning data that Tesla has to continue to improve it. Tesla is a decade ahead of anyone else in that regard.

@KENSAI @Limewater I wasn’t implying Tesla is profiteering on chargers, or Tesla in particular. I think $0.12/kWh might be a reasonable margin, because they do have to rent the space, manage the billing, monitor the vehicle while charging, and now, comply with a bunch of nonsense on over-regulation by hypocritical politicians that like to bloviate and crap on their constituents to seem busy.

If anyone can realize FSD robotaxis, it is Tesla.

I’m pretty happy with my plugin hybrid (honda clarity). Most of my daily commute is covered by an overnight charge, and unless I decide to go on a road trip, I’m probably at least another 2-3 weeks from running low on gas.

@rinrinrin You just need to find a job closer to home then you’ll be all set.

@KENSAI @Limewater @mike808 My one data point on EV charging stations (so far) was with a ChargePoint unit in the parking lot of my local electric PUD. The rate was $0.09/kWh. For comparison, my residential rate from the same utility is $0.0719/kWh (land of cheap hydropower). I wouldn’t be surprised if the PUD is giving ChargePoint a good rate, since the PUD is promoting EVs to its customers.

@KENSAI @Limewater @mike808 It’s when you can make these things last 25 years, like my grand caravan did, that it will be looking good. Well and when you have something that takes no longer to fully charge than it now takes to get gas.

@Kidsandliz @Limewater @mike808 It’s too early for anyone to know for sure yet about EVs lasting 25 years, but there’s one thing that all EVs have going for them: they are fundamentally simpler in terms of the mechanics. The average drivetrain in an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle contains 2000 parts. The drivetrain in an EV? About 20 parts. Less to go wrong means easier repairs and greater longevity and lower costs. No oil, no transmission fluid, etc.

More here: https://www.ameinfo.com/industry/tech-and-mobility/ev-vs-internal-combustion-engine-vehicle-icev-electric-cars

Even the brakes are used about 90% less than in our ICE car. The regenerative braking is so effective you learn to do one-pedal driving and only touch the brakes now and then.

The most expensive part is the battery, but every year costs come down and because they are cell-based you’re never going to replace them all at once. Some manufacturers like Tesla have built their cars in such a way that many parts can be easily replaced by a mobile tech.

@KENSAI @Limewater @mike808 Honestly, it’s all about people buying what suits their needs. Many people couldn’t make an EV work even if they wanted to, and the infrastructure just isn’t there (yet) to depend solely on an EV, especially if you don’t have at-home Level 2 charging options available to you.

In my case, I own an EV (older Spark EV which I enjoy driving every time I get behind the wheel) but if it were my only vehicle I would have never bought it. My commute round trip is about 25 miles, so I’m easily able to recharge it every night - even with only L1 (110V) charging.

My wife owns a gasoline powered hybrid… so it’s hard to complain about getting 50+MPG while having the freedom to just drive it wherever without needing to “plan out” charging stops.

@Limewater @mike808 @mOONmOON

Honestly, it’s all about people buying what suits their needs.

I’ve been trying to focus on all the benefits and great parts about EV ownership, but your comment above summarized most of this discussion thread: “their needs”.

I’m trying to say this in the kindest way possible: all throughout this thread there are people who will only get an EV when they have zero compromises to make and they are not inconvenienced in any way. So as long as the product is a perfect fit for their needs, and they have to change nothing at all, they might consider it. This is problematic.

As someone with two kids who is deeply concerned about the wrecked husk of a planet they are being given unless things change, I believe some compromises are in order. Some inconveniences should be put up with in order to stop creating pollution every time we drive our cars. We all need to do our part to reduce the pollution we put into the air.

(sidebar: given the number of people I see sitting in parking lots with their cars idling when the temperature is a pleasant 65F, I often despair at the selfish stupidity of our species. )

So here’s a bold statement: if someone can afford to buy an EV (which I know not all can, prices need to come way down) and if someone has a reasonable way to charge it at home (which I know is a big issue for people in apartments, etc. and needs to be addressed) I believe they have a moral imperative to do so. And I’ll go one further: the people who can afford a $40K+ EV should buy one to help drive down the future costs for everyone else. We need to help pave the way for others.

@KENSAI @mike808 @mOONmOON

I’m trying to say this in the kindest way possible: all throughout this thread there are people who will only get an EV when they have zero compromises to make and they are not inconvenienced in any way.

I’m actually willing to compromise quite a bit to purchase an electric vehicle when and if it makes sense.
But replacing a vehicle that doesn’t need replacing to do so isn’t really doing the environment any favors. Every analysis I have ever seen has said that you are better off in terms of environmental impact driving your existing fuel-efficient vehicle into the ground rather than replacing it when you don’t need to.
Right now I drive a small vehicle and average 40MPG. Years ago, when I bought it the choice was between a small, simple, fuel-efficient 4-door or an electric sports car. I’m going to keep this car a lot longer than you kept your last SUV.
But, go on, Reverend. You’re certainly getting your money’s-worth out of that Tesla.

@KENSAI @Limewater @mOONmOON
I am also actually willing to compromise, and am doing my best to support the decision for my next vehicle to be an EV. I wasn’t presenting my discussions as excuses, but laying out the challenges that remain for me, and I don’t think I’m unusual or an outlier in the features I’m looking for to make it a no-brainer choice.

As you said, there are other factors. My existing vehicle, as Limewater notes, will be run into the ground, because the longer I use it, the pace of innovation and addressing the challenges I noted will only improve. I have power issues that factor into my cost - I will need an upgrade to 200A service, and install a Level 2 charging circuit to the garage from the panel (Level 1 charging is 110V wall outlet). I’m also OK with the premium for a Tesla, because I want the FSD and the potential revenue stream that may portend.

With all of that, it is very, very close. And hopefully soon, the remaining conditions (my travel charging needs) will resolve themselves and I’ll be happy in my EV and no reservations.

@KENSAI @Limewater @mike808 @mOONmOON

And I’ll go one further: the people who can afford a $40K+ EV should buy one

Makes me want to go buy one of these
/image ford f-650

@KENSAI @Limewater @mOONmOON @ybmuG
Fuq dat. Get a Canyonero!
/giphy Canyonero

@KENSAI @Limewater @mike808 @mOONmOON
I almost went with the Family Truckster

@mbersiam Or worse, spouse can’t go to work so you’re stuck with HIM all day!

@mbersiam

@Kidsandliz @mbersiam
Or worse, you can’t go to work so you’re stuck with HER all day.

@sammydog01 That should earn him the nickname “Flash”.

@sammydog01

Just saw it here:

@mehcuda67

This is the way:

Safety Siphon

@Kabn I bought a new vehicle at the end of Dec. 2019. I drove it to work (~300 miles per week) until mid-March when I started working from home. It now has about 5200 miles on it. A tank of gas usually lasts me about 2 months.

@mike808 I would normally call photoshop, but these days I’m just not sure.

@mike808 There’s no WAY this one wasn’t staged. Please tell me nobody is actually THAT dense.

@mike808 @PooltoyWolf Given there have been folks who tried to refuel a Tesla with gas, anything is possible.

Rich is excluded, of course.

@narfcake @PooltoyWolf As for actually that dense, I’m pretty sure Senators Hawley, Cruz, Johnson, Reps Greene, McCarthy, Jordan, and the other insurrectionist congresscritters and GQP’ers who just can’t believe their guy lost his job and the majority in both houses fair and square make my list.

@mike808 @narfcake @PooltoyWolf if real I would assume she’s got a trash bag down in there that she’s filling which the laundry basket will help support/protect. Which while also very stupid is better than the bag people.

@mike808 @narfcake @unksol ‘The bag people’ sound like something out of a B-movie.

@mike808 @narfcake @PooltoyWolf @unksol

@Kyeh @mike808 @narfcake @PooltoyWolf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bag_people is what wikipedia finds. Obviously does not apply as survival vs stupidity.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a few idiots hoping to resell cause that’s what hoarders/scalpers do in America. Heaven forbid everyone had behaved like adults and bought gas as normal. But Americans just can’t. Bet you all those people in line left it running with the air on… Why would any even want to sit in line… Mob stupidity

@Kyeh @mike808 @narfcake @PooltoyWolf @unksol the crazy reselling/scalping thing didn’t really start until about a year ago. I think a critical mass of people were out of work and bored, and saw an opportunity.
Why are people waiting in line? Most of them probably because they have to. At the time, they need to get gas to get to work for the next week. The main problem is a lot went and topped off their tanks right when it started, boosting sales 20%, and draining the gas station’s supply.

@kevinrs @Kyeh @mike808 @narfcake @PooltoyWolf
Morons went and topped up their tanks and anything else cause morons. That overloaded the supply. If people had behaved like normal. No big deal. But that is not how people work.

Past that is pathetic a critical pipeline could be hacked and that critical infrastructure and utilities are so vulnerable. The US has a long history of letting this shit slide and it’s not just trump. Do even half our senators know what the internet is?

@kevinrs What are you talkin’ about?

@kevinrs @mike808 is it sad that i can’t convince myself that that is not real?

@kevinrs @mike808 @ybmuG I read that some stations have water for car washing using nozzles like that- that’s why it’s yellow instead of green.

@kevinrs @mike808 @sammydog01 one can only hope…

@kevinrs @mike808 @sammydog01 @ybmuG If you are really concerned just look at the hose. Have you ever seen a legit gas nozzle with a hose that long and coily? I sure haven’t.

@Limewater @mike808 @sammydog01 @ybmuG and in california and probably other states, non-diesel nozzles look like https://www.whitetucker.com/shop/product/43-emco-wheaton-short-spout-vapor-recovery-nozzle-rebuilt-unleaded-call-for-core-return
The pump cuts off if the black part isn’t pushed up the nozzle, and probably if free flow is detected too.

@djslack I just wish the people too dumb to live would confine their risky behavior to themselves and not involve innocent bystanders.

@djslack @Kyeh The consequences of the risky behavior of others are a part of nature.