@OldCatLady You’re just asking for a bunch of not-that-awesome responses. I respect the unique challenges dependents have to overcome, but you don’t get to claim you were in because your spouse was.
@OldCatLady That was what I came here to ask. We are in a way signed up when they do. So while I would never claim I was actually in, I will always mention I was/am a spouse.
@OldCatLady Hell yeah! The families of those of us who serve(d) are just as important to the overall mission as we are(were). You can’t do the tough work it takes to meet your mission requirements without the support of your family – who often face serious challenges unique to the military way of life.
@msklzannie I’d personally still say he’s a veteran since he actually served. The deployment part of my post was really just to highlight how incorrect it is for a dependent to claim veteran status. That isn’t to negate the very unique and challenging situations dependents have to deal with, but I (and many veterans like me) dislike hearing spouses claim veteran when they haven’t been through the actual experiences we have.
I tried twice. The first time was when I was graduating from high school, circa 1988. Was about to join the Marines, and my parents said, “Uh…Never mind, I guess we can afford to send you to college.”
Second time was two or three years into college 1991-ish, when I was listless and wanted to drop out. Tried to join the Air Force, went through a lot of paperwork and tests, only to be told that a medical condition (thalassemia minor…really not that big a deal) blocked me from any military service.
Looking back on these stories now with 25+ years of experience is weird. I can scarcely recognize the young fella that wanted to join the military…twice! I mean, I know it was me, I know it happened…But how can that have been me? How can my life almost have taken those turns?
Maybe because it is a little after 2AM but I originally read the question as ‘have you screwed in the military?’
Anyhoo, I was wondering, should you be appreciative of anyone who serves even if you’re really opposed to what they are/were fighting for? I am not referring to any recent conflicts, I was just thinking about all the Confederate soldiers during the Civil War. I am not so sure I will ever be appreciative of their sacrifice.
@elimanningface huh, I assume nearly no one appreciates the service of Axis WW2 vets, either. This brings up some interesting questions. I mean, should we only appreciate the victors? Or is it based on morality? Should our aid to soldiers be affected by our appreciation of them and their cause? Am I the only one who misses his college ethics class?
@simplersimon Victors write history, but I do find I do think there would be some cognitive dissonance if people I knew and respected were drafted to fight for something I believed was wrong
@elimanningface I think it’s possible if you separate the cause from the person. I have a lot of respect for military on either side, because I understand that they are, in their mind, fighting for their country, and even if the cause is evil, not all of them may support or be aware of the cause outside of “duty to country.”
@nickiwhite The definition of “evil” sometimes depends on which flag you salute, or which party you support. Even so, we veterans generally respect the military service of those on the other side because, both literally and figuratively, they fought the same battles we did: service, separation, following orders both brilliant and absurd, and everything else. We don’t see them as brothers in arms, but we see their military service as worthy of respect in most cases. This, of course, does NOT apply to guerrillas having no popular support or command structure, anarchists, or terrorists.
@DocBJ I definitely get the subjectivity of “evil” and probably should have put it in quotes to reflect that, but I was thinking of the German forces during WWII when I wrote that. The majority of the wehrmacht were fighting for their country and following orders, and I respect all of those who did; however, the SS troops were fully indoctrinated into the Nazi agenda (Exterminating “lesser races” was a primary tenet that basically everyone can agree is evil) and, even as a veteran, I have no respect for any of them.
In 1894, Virginian and former Confederate soldier John S. Mosby, reflecting back on his role in the war, stated in a letter to a friend that “I’ve always understood that we went to war on account of the thing we quarreled with the North about. I’ve never heard of any other cause than slavery.”[33][34]
If I understand my family’s history correctly, we had partisans on both sides of the Civil War, in both armies. But the ones who are closer relatives of mine were in the Confederate States Army. Some of them were well-known and admired, and attained high rank, sometimes very high rank.
They saw themselves as honorable and patriotic. My family was, as far as I know, not for the most part farm or plantation owners - rather, doctors, reverends, lawyers, officers, and other professionals, sometimes politicians. I do not know how many owned enslaved persons; it is documented that some did, and about at least one individual a great deal is known.
The percentage of Confederate States soldiers who actually owned enslaved persons as personal property was small (these tended to be soldiers of high rank); but many more soldiers came from slaveholding families, though the number may be nowhere close to half.
From Texas then % of slaveholding soldiers is said to be less than 2% by some sources; with soldiers from Texas who came from slaveholding families coming to perhaps 10-15% of total recruits.
Why did the rest of the soldiers - whose families had never owned slaves and never expected to - go to war, sometimes eagerly?
A lot of romance and notions of Southern Honor and Southern Homeland covers the ugly truth:
They told themselves and each other:
“They’re on our land.”
“They mean to tell us how to live.”
“We have the right to go our own way.”
“We have the right to decide how to live without their interference.”
And they did not publicly discuss exactly who was telling whom how to live, by law, and sometimes in real chains.
And so the war was cast for public consumption in romantic notions of the defense of the homeland and its culture. Publicly, Southerners saw themselves as victims of Northern interference and Northern aggression. Privately, the discussions and letters are said to take a different tone: the Confederate soldiers couldn’t stand the idea that they would have to share their culture and economic opportunities by African Americans; that African Americans would be free; or be their social, moral, and political equals. They couldn’t stand they idea that someone would take away their “privileges” of ownership of other persons.
Certainly the “high ideals” of homeland and honor and comradeship and call to arms played an enormous emotional and public-relations role. The pulpits and open-air speeches rang with “righteous values”. The soldiers could act on both their uglier private beliefs (not acknowledged to the outsider “who wouldn’t understand”), and their idealistic notions of defending “the South” and its culture and ways at the same time.
It was all hideous.
Does a soldier who acts honorably and courageously in war, when the purpose of the war is to sustain or perpetrate evil, deserve honor?
To me, it’s all horribly sad. These people believed they were decent, good, credits to their church, their God, their heritage, their families, their community. They chose to look away from all the ways in which they shamed and debased their own ideals, morals, and religious values every day, while profiting from indefensible evil whether they owned enslaved persons or not.
I don’t have to find a final answer to that, because it was a long time ago. If they did good in their lives, I’m glad of that. I am repulsed by the horror that was their daily world, that they chose to go along with, defend, participate in, or profit from. I can’t parse every moral detail of the past or of their lives. I am just very very glad they lost. I am very glad we are a long way from that, even if we still have a very long way to go.
Had I been born then, raised in that world, normalized to its values and its hideous practices, what courage or vision or determination would I have possessed? If I had been raised in a “good family of the South”, would I have possessed the ethical compass to walk away, or to struggle against slavery, or to be a hero? To oppose obvious evil that everyone and the law approves of and defends? Or would I have looked the other way and conformed?
I don’t know. How can anyone know? I am so far from faultless and courageous in my current life.
I think the final answer for me is to acknowledge truth and acknowledge present and past fault, to acknowledge moral debt, and move forward with what we have now.
@elimanningface I’m glad I held off posting my response because when i first read it at 2 a.m. I didn’t quite read it correctly. But I think my thinking is in line with @f00l’s. I’m born and raised in the South, with ancestry going back to colonial times. Somewhere along the family tree I must have family that fought for secession and slavery, but that’s a cause I personally find abhorrent. On the one hand, I do find it strange to have an agreement, a union that can never be terminated, and with the United States, the original 13 colonies entered as 13 independent nations and agreed to cede some of their national authority to a new country of the United States. Things change and ends come to arrangements that seemed permanent. Even marriages often say “'til death do us part” but they often end much sooner with a divorce. But in the case of Southern secession, what a horrible reason to secede! A “state’s right” to decide that some people are less valuable, subhuman almost, and therefore are worthy of being owned and treated as property, little better than livestock, in a sense. A system that really only benefited the wealthiest, and harmed even many of the people who fought to keep it in place. A rebellion that caused many to commit acts of treason, and yet many were celebrated after the fact. How many in the army swore to defend and uphold the constitution, then broke that oath to fight for secession? Men who claimed to be men of honor, men of their word? There are even military bases named after men who fought against the very army now housed in the bases that bear their names. It makes no sense to me. I think the very horror of it all can be spoken to by the great lengths its descendants go to whitewash history (no pun intended). I think they have to do that, because otherwise they have to confront the fact that their forebears did something terrible, perhaps even committed atrocities in the name of a cause of terror. It boggles my mind to see people say how much they love this country, then go waving a flag that represents the greatest act of treason this country has ever seen (and I’m not just referring to current politics, this goes back for decades). Even today, stating an opinion like this can anger some of my fellow Southerners. It’s not a phenomenon unique to the South; you can look to other countries, such as France, where some people of certain political persuasions are more likely to defend The Terror as a necessary part of the French Revolution. But until people are willing to confront the past, to recognize the horrors of what happened yet were actively supported by many, those same horrors will continue to echo through time and hold back the descendants of both the victims and the perpetrators. For myself I try to do better, to treat people with dignity and respect no matter what their background is, and recognize that I probably have some inbuilt biases, largely from the society I have been raised in, a society built to give some people an advantage at the expense of others, even if none of the people who did it realized that was what they were creating. It is good to look at history, to appreciate and learn from what was done. But how do you reconcile honoring and respecting your ancestors when they did something terrible?
@jqubed
What state are you in? What state did you ancestors live in? Any idea when they came over, and from where?
I know kinda exactly what my family - or some of my family - did during the Civil War, because they were soldiers of high rank whose actions and battles were logged.
@oldCatLady also grew up with the weight of this sort of heritage. She pointed me to a wonderful book about the strangeness of Southern assumptions and conduct in modern times, written by a true and hilarious curmudgeon.
Everyone has ancestors who did terrible, horrible things. Some of them are well documented, or the actions are recent and still reverberate in the present.
Other actions were never noted. And others are so far off in history that we see them as having happened in a world a bit disconnected from ours, so that we don’t feel it.
The “Lost Cause” reverberated strongly in some members of my grandparents’ generations. Everyone younger than that just tolerated their attitudes. You don’t tell people who are past 70 to remake themselves, and these family members alive for much of my life were not evil - far from it - just a bit retro. It became kind of a running family source of mild humor. “There she goes on and on again about history”.
We can’t undo the past. And how to we know what we would have done under the circumstances, had we been there during that time.
I have come to terms (I hope) with what I know of their lives - good things, bad things, terrible things. I can’t reach back in time and change the assumptions, the practices, and evil of that culture. I have no more wish to blame anyone in perpetuity than I wish to be blamed for my own failings for decades or centuries after I am gone.
Never have, hoping I never will. I am a weak, little coward. I will snap like a twig and get myself, and hopefully no one else, killed. Or I will survive and end up a drain on my family as they face my psychological issues, likely having to pay for my treatment, or abandon me and face the guilt. Either way, bleak.
I have loads of respect for those of you who face that life, and inexpressible appreciation for the sacrifices you make, but it is better for all of us if I don’t get in the way.
@simplersimon They do have essential jobs in the Military that don’t require schlepping automatic weapons through swamps. Examples: Nuclear reactor operators, electronics technicians, operations specialists, radiomen, etc.
I am far too volatile. I tried to sign up for a civilian job supporting the Navy that required a security clearance. I passed the interviews- twice (HR said it wouldn’t hurt to have a second position pending in case a time limit was instituted in the future). Four years and 3 interviews with ex-CIA later, my clearance is still “pending”.
edit: on the plus side, my not getting a clearance in a reasonable amount of time led to me going back to school, which has already gotten me a much better job.
edit2: while I don’t always agree with everything American politicians get us into, I have the utmost respect for those who volunteer to defend the country. If no one did, we wouldn’t have the amazing opportunities we often take for granted.
Word of warning: Unless you set your profile info to private, people can see your poll responses. Take heed not to reveal too much about yourself lest the identity thieves will gitcha.
@PocketBrain I say the same. As eager as I was to get out, especially after nine years, I’m leaps and bounds further (financially, skill set, and experientially) than I would have been had I done the typical college thing straight out of high school.
US Army, Heavy Anti-Armor Weapons Crewman, mid-80’s. We were told (obviously not by a recruiter) that we had a combat life expectancy of about 16 seconds. One of our squad leaders, the ironically-named Sgt. Friend, loved to point out that our post in West Germany was only 8 minutes by Russian MiG from the East German border. He couldn’t have been more of a hoot if he’d come from an owl’s beak.
Nope, it was definitely not for me. But I do want to say thank you to all that have served. While I don’t always agree with the reasons we’ve sent our military personnel into battle, I have the utmost respect for those who fight for our country. (On that note, I feel the need to add this: And the utmost disrespect for those who use daddy’s wealth and fake bone spurs to avoid military duty…)
I would prefer to think I had served, since all of you taxpayers are funding my military retirement check each month. But when I was at the Pentagon, it was interesting to move through the halls where someone was leading a tour group (and I felt a certain kinship with zoo animals) when a tourist inevitably asked: “So, how many people actually work in this building?” - to which the group leader inevitably replied: “About half of them.”
I signed up in the late '90’s and then Gingrich and Clinton came up with the balanced budget plan that caused the military to drop anyone who had the tiniest issue. All because we were coming out of Iraq. They discovered that I’d had surgery in 5th grade, so they gave me the boot…
Tried again after my degree. Got 97th percentile in the ASVAB for Nuclear Engineering and still got turned away because - you guessed it - we were coming out of Iraq. Therefore, technically I was military for just over a week… but I don’t consider myself a vet.
Yes, I participated in the Southeast Asia War Games in 1969. We took 2nd place due to poor coaching and bad management decisions in the home office. This was one case where there were indeed too many chiefs and not enough indians. The position coaches were just fine, sometimes even outstanding. The GM in DC was an idiot.
@Poppadon My father was there at that same time. One of the most interesting things he told me was that he was listening on the radio to the president telling the country “we are not in Cambodia” as he was (you guessed it) in Cambodia.
Does being an Army wife for a few years count?
@OldCatLady no
@OldCatLady You’re just asking for a bunch of not-that-awesome responses. I respect the unique challenges dependents have to overcome, but you don’t get to claim you were in because your spouse was.
@OldCatLady I say you should get honorary status. Pollmaker! Add one more option!
@OldCatLady That was what I came here to ask. We are in a way signed up when they do. So while I would never claim I was actually in, I will always mention I was/am a spouse.
@OldCatLady No, but being military husband - yes.
@OldCatLady Hell yeah! The families of those of us who serve(d) are just as important to the overall mission as we are(were). You can’t do the tough work it takes to meet your mission requirements without the support of your family – who often face serious challenges unique to the military way of life.
Great respect for those who do, but never did myself. Never would have made it with my asthma, anyway.
Supporting a spouse through a military career makes you a military veteran.
@cshaw nope. Serving in the military during wartime makes you a veteran. With all due respect, unless you deployed, don’t call yourself a veteran.
@cshaw - If your military ID card says dependent on it then that doesn’t mean you are a veteran.
@nickiwhite So you’re saying that my dad, who was drafted and served in the Army, is not a veteran because he did not get sent to Vietnam?
(He was in the very last bunch of draftees; by the time he was finishing his training, troops were beginning to be brought back.)
@msklzannie I’d personally still say he’s a veteran since he actually served. The deployment part of my post was really just to highlight how incorrect it is for a dependent to claim veteran status. That isn’t to negate the very unique and challenging situations dependents have to deal with, but I (and many veterans like me) dislike hearing spouses claim veteran when they haven’t been through the actual experiences we have.
Served 6 years in the Air Force and deployed to Iraq. Stationed in Alaska and in DC. I am proud to call myself a VETERAN of the USA
Is the “Yes, I played Command And Conquer” option like “I stayed at the Holiday Inn last night”?
I tried twice. The first time was when I was graduating from high school, circa 1988. Was about to join the Marines, and my parents said, “Uh…Never mind, I guess we can afford to send you to college.”
Second time was two or three years into college 1991-ish, when I was listless and wanted to drop out. Tried to join the Air Force, went through a lot of paperwork and tests, only to be told that a medical condition (thalassemia minor…really not that big a deal) blocked me from any military service.
Looking back on these stories now with 25+ years of experience is weird. I can scarcely recognize the young fella that wanted to join the military…twice! I mean, I know it was me, I know it happened…But how can that have been me? How can my life almost have taken those turns?
Maybe because it is a little after 2AM but I originally read the question as ‘have you screwed in the military?’
Anyhoo, I was wondering, should you be appreciative of anyone who serves even if you’re really opposed to what they are/were fighting for? I am not referring to any recent conflicts, I was just thinking about all the Confederate soldiers during the Civil War. I am not so sure I will ever be appreciative of their sacrifice.
@elimanningface huh, I assume nearly no one appreciates the service of Axis WW2 vets, either. This brings up some interesting questions. I mean, should we only appreciate the victors? Or is it based on morality? Should our aid to soldiers be affected by our appreciation of them and their cause? Am I the only one who misses his college ethics class?
@simplersimon Victors write history, but I do find I do think there would be some cognitive dissonance if people I knew and respected were drafted to fight for something I believed was wrong
@elimanningface I think it’s possible if you separate the cause from the person. I have a lot of respect for military on either side, because I understand that they are, in their mind, fighting for their country, and even if the cause is evil, not all of them may support or be aware of the cause outside of “duty to country.”
@nickiwhite The definition of “evil” sometimes depends on which flag you salute, or which party you support. Even so, we veterans generally respect the military service of those on the other side because, both literally and figuratively, they fought the same battles we did: service, separation, following orders both brilliant and absurd, and everything else. We don’t see them as brothers in arms, but we see their military service as worthy of respect in most cases. This, of course, does NOT apply to guerrillas having no popular support or command structure, anarchists, or terrorists.
@DocBJ I definitely get the subjectivity of “evil” and probably should have put it in quotes to reflect that, but I was thinking of the German forces during WWII when I wrote that. The majority of the wehrmacht were fighting for their country and following orders, and I respect all of those who did; however, the SS troops were fully indoctrinated into the Nazi agenda (Exterminating “lesser races” was a primary tenet that basically everyone can agree is evil) and, even as a veteran, I have no respect for any of them.
@elimanningface
from wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_Army#Morale_and_motivations
If I understand my family’s history correctly, we had partisans on both sides of the Civil War, in both armies. But the ones who are closer relatives of mine were in the Confederate States Army. Some of them were well-known and admired, and attained high rank, sometimes very high rank.
They saw themselves as honorable and patriotic. My family was, as far as I know, not for the most part farm or plantation owners - rather, doctors, reverends, lawyers, officers, and other professionals, sometimes politicians. I do not know how many owned enslaved persons; it is documented that some did, and about at least one individual a great deal is known.
The percentage of Confederate States soldiers who actually owned enslaved persons as personal property was small (these tended to be soldiers of high rank); but many more soldiers came from slaveholding families, though the number may be nowhere close to half.
From Texas then % of slaveholding soldiers is said to be less than 2% by some sources; with soldiers from Texas who came from slaveholding families coming to perhaps 10-15% of total recruits.
Why did the rest of the soldiers - whose families had never owned slaves and never expected to - go to war, sometimes eagerly?
A lot of romance and notions of Southern Honor and Southern Homeland covers the ugly truth:
They told themselves and each other:
“They’re on our land.”
“They mean to tell us how to live.”
“We have the right to go our own way.”
“We have the right to decide how to live without their interference.”
And they did not publicly discuss exactly who was telling whom how to live, by law, and sometimes in real chains.
And so the war was cast for public consumption in romantic notions of the defense of the homeland and its culture. Publicly, Southerners saw themselves as victims of Northern interference and Northern aggression. Privately, the discussions and letters are said to take a different tone: the Confederate soldiers couldn’t stand the idea that they would have to share their culture and economic opportunities by African Americans; that African Americans would be free; or be their social, moral, and political equals. They couldn’t stand they idea that someone would take away their “privileges” of ownership of other persons.
Certainly the “high ideals” of homeland and honor and comradeship and call to arms played an enormous emotional and public-relations role. The pulpits and open-air speeches rang with “righteous values”. The soldiers could act on both their uglier private beliefs (not acknowledged to the outsider “who wouldn’t understand”), and their idealistic notions of defending “the South” and its culture and ways at the same time.
It was all hideous.
Does a soldier who acts honorably and courageously in war, when the purpose of the war is to sustain or perpetrate evil, deserve honor?
To me, it’s all horribly sad. These people believed they were decent, good, credits to their church, their God, their heritage, their families, their community. They chose to look away from all the ways in which they shamed and debased their own ideals, morals, and religious values every day, while profiting from indefensible evil whether they owned enslaved persons or not.
I don’t have to find a final answer to that, because it was a long time ago. If they did good in their lives, I’m glad of that. I am repulsed by the horror that was their daily world, that they chose to go along with, defend, participate in, or profit from. I can’t parse every moral detail of the past or of their lives. I am just very very glad they lost. I am very glad we are a long way from that, even if we still have a very long way to go.
Had I been born then, raised in that world, normalized to its values and its hideous practices, what courage or vision or determination would I have possessed? If I had been raised in a “good family of the South”, would I have possessed the ethical compass to walk away, or to struggle against slavery, or to be a hero? To oppose obvious evil that everyone and the law approves of and defends? Or would I have looked the other way and conformed?
I don’t know. How can anyone know? I am so far from faultless and courageous in my current life.
I think the final answer for me is to acknowledge truth and acknowledge present and past fault, to acknowledge moral debt, and move forward with what we have now.
@elimanningface I’m glad I held off posting my response because when i first read it at 2 a.m. I didn’t quite read it correctly. But I think my thinking is in line with @f00l’s. I’m born and raised in the South, with ancestry going back to colonial times. Somewhere along the family tree I must have family that fought for secession and slavery, but that’s a cause I personally find abhorrent. On the one hand, I do find it strange to have an agreement, a union that can never be terminated, and with the United States, the original 13 colonies entered as 13 independent nations and agreed to cede some of their national authority to a new country of the United States. Things change and ends come to arrangements that seemed permanent. Even marriages often say “'til death do us part” but they often end much sooner with a divorce. But in the case of Southern secession, what a horrible reason to secede! A “state’s right” to decide that some people are less valuable, subhuman almost, and therefore are worthy of being owned and treated as property, little better than livestock, in a sense. A system that really only benefited the wealthiest, and harmed even many of the people who fought to keep it in place. A rebellion that caused many to commit acts of treason, and yet many were celebrated after the fact. How many in the army swore to defend and uphold the constitution, then broke that oath to fight for secession? Men who claimed to be men of honor, men of their word? There are even military bases named after men who fought against the very army now housed in the bases that bear their names. It makes no sense to me. I think the very horror of it all can be spoken to by the great lengths its descendants go to whitewash history (no pun intended). I think they have to do that, because otherwise they have to confront the fact that their forebears did something terrible, perhaps even committed atrocities in the name of a cause of terror. It boggles my mind to see people say how much they love this country, then go waving a flag that represents the greatest act of treason this country has ever seen (and I’m not just referring to current politics, this goes back for decades). Even today, stating an opinion like this can anger some of my fellow Southerners. It’s not a phenomenon unique to the South; you can look to other countries, such as France, where some people of certain political persuasions are more likely to defend The Terror as a necessary part of the French Revolution. But until people are willing to confront the past, to recognize the horrors of what happened yet were actively supported by many, those same horrors will continue to echo through time and hold back the descendants of both the victims and the perpetrators. For myself I try to do better, to treat people with dignity and respect no matter what their background is, and recognize that I probably have some inbuilt biases, largely from the society I have been raised in, a society built to give some people an advantage at the expense of others, even if none of the people who did it realized that was what they were creating. It is good to look at history, to appreciate and learn from what was done. But how do you reconcile honoring and respecting your ancestors when they did something terrible?
@jqubed
What state are you in? What state did you ancestors live in? Any idea when they came over, and from where?
I know kinda exactly what my family - or some of my family - did during the Civil War, because they were soldiers of high rank whose actions and battles were logged.
@oldCatLady also grew up with the weight of this sort of heritage. She pointed me to a wonderful book about the strangeness of Southern assumptions and conduct in modern times, written by a true and hilarious curmudgeon.
Southern Ladies & Gentlemen
by Florence King (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Southern-Ladies-Gentlemen-Florence-King-ebook/dp/B007PRZLT6/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1489640105&sr=1-2
Everyone has ancestors who did terrible, horrible things. Some of them are well documented, or the actions are recent and still reverberate in the present.
Other actions were never noted. And others are so far off in history that we see them as having happened in a world a bit disconnected from ours, so that we don’t feel it.
The “Lost Cause” reverberated strongly in some members of my grandparents’ generations. Everyone younger than that just tolerated their attitudes. You don’t tell people who are past 70 to remake themselves, and these family members alive for much of my life were not evil - far from it - just a bit retro. It became kind of a running family source of mild humor. “There she goes on and on again about history”.
We can’t undo the past. And how to we know what we would have done under the circumstances, had we been there during that time.
I have come to terms (I hope) with what I know of their lives - good things, bad things, terrible things. I can’t reach back in time and change the assumptions, the practices, and evil of that culture. I have no more wish to blame anyone in perpetuity than I wish to be blamed for my own failings for decades or centuries after I am gone.
I suppose I do what I can here and now.
Never have, hoping I never will. I am a weak, little coward. I will snap like a twig and get myself, and hopefully no one else, killed. Or I will survive and end up a drain on my family as they face my psychological issues, likely having to pay for my treatment, or abandon me and face the guilt. Either way, bleak.
I have loads of respect for those of you who face that life, and inexpressible appreciation for the sacrifices you make, but it is better for all of us if I don’t get in the way.
@simplersimon They do have essential jobs in the Military that don’t require schlepping automatic weapons through swamps. Examples: Nuclear reactor operators, electronics technicians, operations specialists, radiomen, etc.
I am far too volatile. I tried to sign up for a civilian job supporting the Navy that required a security clearance. I passed the interviews- twice (HR said it wouldn’t hurt to have a second position pending in case a time limit was instituted in the future). Four years and 3 interviews with ex-CIA later, my clearance is still “pending”.
edit: on the plus side, my not getting a clearance in a reasonable amount of time led to me going back to school, which has already gotten me a much better job.
edit2: while I don’t always agree with everything American politicians get us into, I have the utmost respect for those who volunteer to defend the country. If no one did, we wouldn’t have the amazing opportunities we often take for granted.
Army child for a small portion of my life
No it was presented as not an option when I was young. I wish I had however and i tried to join in 30s but too old.
Thanks to those who served
Word of warning: Unless you set your profile info to private, people can see your poll responses. Take heed not to reveal too much about yourself lest the identity thieves will gitcha.
US Navy, 1982 to 1987. Glad I did it. Glad I got out when I did.
@ratman LOL, I always say that: “Glad I did it, glad I got out.”
@PocketBrain I say the same. As eager as I was to get out, especially after nine years, I’m leaps and bounds further (financially, skill set, and experientially) than I would have been had I done the typical college thing straight out of high school.
U.S. Navy from 1988 to 1994. Thought we won the cold war, but the Bear was just hibernating.
US Army, Heavy Anti-Armor Weapons Crewman, mid-80’s. We were told (obviously not by a recruiter) that we had a combat life expectancy of about 16 seconds. One of our squad leaders, the ironically-named Sgt. Friend, loved to point out that our post in West Germany was only 8 minutes by Russian MiG from the East German border. He couldn’t have been more of a hoot if he’d come from an owl’s beak.
Nope, it was definitely not for me. But I do want to say thank you to all that have served. While I don’t always agree with the reasons we’ve sent our military personnel into battle, I have the utmost respect for those who fight for our country. (On that note, I feel the need to add this: And the utmost disrespect for those who use daddy’s wealth and fake bone spurs to avoid military duty…)
I would prefer to think I had served, since all of you taxpayers are funding my military retirement check each month. But when I was at the Pentagon, it was interesting to move through the halls where someone was leading a tour group (and I felt a certain kinship with zoo animals) when a tourist inevitably asked: “So, how many people actually work in this building?” - to which the group leader inevitably replied: “About half of them.”
I bought a West Germany military coat from Hot Topic in the 90s.
I signed up in the late '90’s and then Gingrich and Clinton came up with the balanced budget plan that caused the military to drop anyone who had the tiniest issue. All because we were coming out of Iraq. They discovered that I’d had surgery in 5th grade, so they gave me the boot…
Tried again after my degree. Got 97th percentile in the ASVAB for Nuclear Engineering and still got turned away because - you guessed it - we were coming out of Iraq. Therefore, technically I was military for just over a week… but I don’t consider myself a vet.
Yes, I participated in the Southeast Asia War Games in 1969. We took 2nd place due to poor coaching and bad management decisions in the home office. This was one case where there were indeed too many chiefs and not enough indians. The position coaches were just fine, sometimes even outstanding. The GM in DC was an idiot.
@Poppadon My father was there at that same time. One of the most interesting things he told me was that he was listening on the radio to the president telling the country “we are not in Cambodia” as he was (you guessed it) in Cambodia.
Told you the GM (LBJ) in DC was an idiot.