Does your Internet provider have bandwidth caps?

@Pantheist what provider do you have?

@communist Time Warner. My options are them or FairPoint, which I’ve heard is terrible

@thismyusername The lobby so hard to get the laws changed. I think someday we will lose this battle.

@caffeine_dude don’t worry, in their impossible task of infinitely seeking more and more profit they will succumb to competition with no restrictions eventually.

…but even knowing this inevitable fact doesn’t stop them trying to turn back time and create artificial scarcity.

@KDemo You’ll be fine. We stream a ton in my house, 10+hours a day of HD TV. Plus a fair amount of online games and only use half a TB.

@metaphore - Good to know, thank you. I have cut back on TV a lot since switching to a cheaper cable package, there is often nothing I want to watch. Except I do leave it on at night, it helps me sleep, so happy to know they won’t be further gouging me on the internet side.
Also interesting (and maddening) what @capguncowboy posted below, the bandwidth doesn’t cost the company extra. I was told by a Comcast service person that HBO works like that. Comcast must pay HBO for every house that the signal passes, whether subscribed or not. That’s why it costs them nothing extra to offer it as an incentive.
I hate Comcast.

@walarney Be careful about the promises of future tech. From 2006 http://www.governing.com/topics/technology/WIFI-Free-For-All.html

@walarney
I think it will be the opposite. My guess: Cell and google will decimate cable and fios if they don’t change their ways.

@f00l I don’t know… If there’s a worse deal than cable, it’s cellular data.

@f00l Somehow, that’s not at all comforting.

@Collin1000 using the word “evil” with the phrase “cable company” is redundant…

@capguncowboy I’m not sure about that. It could cost them more as you use more. Maybe one person alone wouldn’t add additional costs but if all customers used more bandwidth, they would have to upgrade their infrastructure with more/faster routers, more data pipes, etc.

@luvche21 speedtest please

at https://sourceforge.net/speedtest/ if possible

@communist I’m only signed up for the 100 mb plan, and I normally get 102-104 (both upload and download).

I’m not at home right now to send proof tho.

It’s an extra $20/month to upgrade to the 1 gig plan, but I don’t really need that (even though I really really really want it)

@luvche21
Envious. Want.

@Pixy With T-Mobile… It’s been much more affordable than I was with AT&T… Plus no contracts.

@Kirgen not arguing for caps, but if you do nothing but internet all day (no sleep, no eat, no…) then that is 720 hours. As a mom, I’d like to suggest you go outside for a bit of fresh air and get 7-8 hours of sleep. Will make you in better health/have more stamina to fight the cable co to get the hours you need, but you may be able to settle for 600 hours or so worth.

@mollama as a person with a degree in information technology, a streamer, and a person who’s livelihood comes partially from online sources… A person that has averaged 3 hours sleep a night for 25 years. Your qualifications and judgments as “mom” are useless. Large downloads are scheduled for the hours in which I am either sleeping or at my other job, which involves more computers but is generally outside, for 8 hours a day. I upload my photography during those hours, download new software, new games (streamer and fun), and watch other streamers for business research, along with audiobook and business publications to keep up on those various jobs.

But thanks for the advice on my life I knew I was going wrong somewhere.

@Kirgen Dude, never argue with a mom. If you got out more you would know that. You’re welcome.

@Kirgen i actually almost didn’t write my post because a) i was guessing you might have stuff going in passive mode so might actually run 24 hrs and b) i am a hypocrite as i don’t get enough sleep or outside time either. But if people like me didn’t say something at least partailly useless every once in a while, the whole meh enterprise might come to a screaching halt.
@therealjrn thank you.

@mollama It’s no problem … I am probably a bit harsher than I meant to be. Yesterday was a horribly long day in the personal life and when I get attacked for personal reasons on a tech topic . . . my overreaction persona goes into effect.

@caffeine_dude wouldn’t I need a 4k TV to care about that? Or would they automatically stream at 4k even though I only have 1080p?

@caffeine_dude I don’t give a fuck about 4K. Right now, I don’t have any fucking “contract” and am somewhat free from the tyranny of the mass media.

The only “entertainment shackles” I have are of my own choosing. You have that choice too, we all do.

@caffeine_dude I think widespread adoption of 4k will still take a few years. The TVs are a lot more common now (my parents have one), but there’s not a lot of content yet. If the cable companies want to compete, they’re going to have to do a lot better than they are now. I’m still getting 720p signals on most of my “HD” cable channels. Give us true, good quality (i.e. not compressed to hell) 4k. Knowing them, the best we’ll get is 1080p at the time that 8k becomes a thing.

@caffeine_dude
I do not care about 4K or about HD for that matter. Not if it means signing in the dotted line. Watch more media on a phone than by any other method, or on a second monitor. A TV is just there for background video stuff at best. Usually it’s off because it’s annoying.

Maybe I’ll change my mind. Or maybe I’ll continue to do tell the cable/fios/satellite tv satanic monopolies to kindly go bankrupt asap. They may miss me. I don’t miss them.

@caffeine_dude Don’t get me wrong, I am still pissed about the cap. It just isn’t a problem for me at the moment. I think it’s still a while before most streaming media will be 4k, and I’m hoping by then either they will rethink caps, someone will step in and tell them they can’t do caps, or I’ll have more than one option for internet and I can go with a provider I don’t despise.

@caffeine_dude I really think the data caps are ludicrous (see @capguncowboy’s post) but we’re stuck with them until a better ISP system comes along.
If I do manage to ditch cable, I may move to a wireless ISP we have here. It’s not as fast as cable, but it’s fast enough for my needs for now with no cap.
I don’t have a problem with companies making money on products that have value, but it does irritate me when they artificially monetize things that basically have no cost to them.

@RiotDemon I went from SD to 1080 because I didn’t care.
That was then. Now when a program plays in 720 I think there is something wrong with my stream.
My point is when 4k happens it happens. I am not throwing a good 1080 tv away for a 4k but 1080 tvs have 5 years in them on average?

@therealjrn Not all people have a choice. I know someone with a 1.5gb limit (satellite, only choice) I know a different person with 1.5mb max download and Comcast wants $6000 to hook them up.

@2many2no who are your wireless ISP?
I need to know for the people I mention above.

@caffeine_dude You don’t see that there still is a choice? If it’s a discretionary entertainment choice, one can choose not to partake. If it’s a needed business tool, then so be it, but if your “business” does not pay for your expenses, then…lots of businesses don’t make it.

Look, this is getting silly. You’re not going to convince me this is a needed commodity.

Namaste my highly caffeinated brother.

@therealjrn
An internet connection is not merely an entertainment choice for most of us, if we wish to do school papers, be informed (legit websites, crackpot sites, whatever), do school papers, and a thousand other tasks.

A wired tv connection (apart from the net) is an entertainment choice.

@f00l So you speak for “most of us?” ha. Bet you don’t, not really. There are countless others like me who have shaken free of the tyranny of the media.

But lets say you have decided that the internet is essential, like water to you. So I would classify that a “business” then. Lets go with that OK? If you can’t or won’t pay what the market is dictating and you are in the majority, then the provider will have to reduce his price after a majority of his customers leave.

If you are underpaid, or “under-earning” then you have some hard choices to make. Food or internet? Medicine or internet? There are other ways to read the websites for free, to do your papers for free. Go to your library or school. Not as convenient? Sure, but that’s STILL a choice.

Look, all I’m saying is that the internet, while a beautiful thing should be making you money if you depend upon it so much.

@therealjrn
I do understand fundamental economics. I also understand that most people starting out in their schooling or careers or midway along are going to have vastly different opportunities and prospect in life if they do not have or cannot afford constant internet access, just as if they didn’t have a safe place to live, a way to get to good jobs, access to tolerable housing, appropriate clothing, etc.

Mere TV access does not have the same game changing and life changing effect as information access.

Yes there are libraries and public resources, and finding ways around not having the net at home or on one’s phone. Many of us have probably used many of these options in a pinch. Those sources do not make up for a lack on always-on internet, tho one might be able to use such public resources to “level up” to a more tolerable life.

You can also have a decent career or education of opportunities if you are homeless, depending on where you live and what personal strengths you have and what other resources are available to you. Personally speaking, if I had to choose between internet access and having a roof over my head, I’d choose internet access. I know that choice would have to be different in many locations and different for many people. However, I have no argument with the common notion that housing is a necessity.

And I do speak from some experience - I know someone who spent a large chunk of time homeless “by choice” early in his career in Silicon Valley - he wanted his opportunities, housing was expensive, he was young and healthy, he chose to do without housing for what he believed was a long term greater good. Obviously, his experiences do not match those of most homeless people, and he had a far greater range of choices. I know other people who have made similar decisions, sometimes for some # of years. It makes life quite difficult enough that it’s a dicey decision, in terms of safety, reputation, readiness, and practical difficulties of common life tasks, esp if one is not a student.

These persons all had certain basics - tolerable school systems growing up, tolerable families, college or the opportunity for college, a relatively tolerable climate, some # of job options.

There are many people - esp those growing up in terrible situations, and those who start out with significant deficiencies who also lack internet access - who are so far behind the standards of adult competence in one area or another when they come of age - that it becomes nearly impossible to make up the deficit even with hard work and dedication. One will always be “behind” and always poor, although some # of exceptional individuals will manage to step past the apparent limits that are common to many.

I am not advocating any economic theory or political stance. Economics is terribly complex, and political statements on any economic perspective made by a politician are normally (to me) just political marketing.

Ideally, yes, one’s life should pay for internet access and a roof and food and other things more optional. Certainly very high-speed internet is optional. Moderate speed - say, notably slower than LTE, starts being less optional. (Imagine your life without it, long term.)

Yes, our jobs and economic corcumstances should enable us to pay for that, for ourselves and our dependants. I meant than internet access is a necessity in a way that tv is not. Imagine being 5 years old and growing up without the net. Then with the net but without television. If the caregivers want a future for the kid, there’s only one choice.

I simply consider reasonable internet access a necessity in my life. Less so than food. More so than a roof. Television (wired or dish or antenna) does not compare - is no more necessary (to me personally), now that I can get news on my phone, than a gaming system or a recreation boat would be.

And then there’s the monopoly aspectof much internet access. Although we all know plenty of “free markets situations” where the actual markets is not competitive or “free”. And then you get into large economic issues, and I’m going to avoid waving a flag on that topic. .

Really, all I meant to refer to was the relative necessity, in an typical educated adult life, of internet access vs the relative necessity of television. One is a necessity, or nearly so. The other is not.

@therealjrn Since you are here it seems like you have internet access.

@moondrake ha ha. This started out as a discussion about the usage caps. Somehow people (or maybe I’m not being clear) think I’m against having Internet. I’m saying one doesn’t need the best, fastest ect.

With all the addicts in here I’m doomed to be burned at the stake. Lol

@therealjrn I put internet at a pretty high priority, but not above food and shelter. I am retired, so no work access to phones or internet. I live midway up the mountain atop which the TV, radio, and neighborhood cell towers are placed, in the broadcast shadow of them all. If you stand at the back corner of my deck and lean over the rail you can usually get a cell connection. Sometimes you can get a radio signal here, sometimes not. No TV at all, I recently ran a channel scan and got nothing. I used to be able to get NBC okay and snowy ABC with a roof antenna, but the high winds generated by said mountain took it off and I never bothered to replace it. I get all my news, entertainment and communication via the internet. Basic internet is vital for me, it’s my only way of calling 911 (a landline costs as much as basic internet and provides far less usefulness). But it is true that the very high speed internet I subscribe to is a luxury. I’m pretty thrifty, but since I stream Netflix, Amazon and other online media probably 6 hours per day on average, the high speed internet is a good use of my resources. I’m an artist and I stream media while I work. If they implement caps which will make this impossible or too costly, I’ll cut back to basic internet and fall back on my DVD/blu ray collection.

@moondrake I stream music. Netflix and Amazon Prime video a lot. I sleep listening to internet radio all night long. My internet provider has a usage meter and I don’t go over 350 MB ever.

I don’t have cable or satellite TV but I do get all the over the air channels

If things got too expensive I still could split my service with a friendly nieghbor. I know my torrent freak caffeine buddy wants to religiously follow the evil cable companies TOS but sharing a network is patently easy and undetectable if done properly.

And I could use my service as a business expense too which would make it “free” to me but billable to the company. If my company could not support the service then it needs to fold anyway…

But I’m rambling now.

@caffeine_dude Hey man, I said that perhaps some people consider it a necessity.

I think you people are piling on the messenger here.

Life’s tough. Your internet too high? Figure it out, pay for it. Or do without.

Do, or don’t, there is no try.

If your job sucks and requires you to have things they don’t pay for, get a better job dude. Your children don’t need super fast internet to do homework, so don’t even.

@therealjrn
I haven’t read any post in this thread written by someone who doesn’t appear to “get” personal economics and have some degree of knowledge of common understanding of macroeconomics.

Yes. Scarcity. Choice. Yes.

We need food and water as biological necessities.
We need clothing in the US in order to fiction is society, attend school, be employable.
Most people need shelter (I mentioned some exceptions in another post) for safety and to be able to effectively manage life.
Most of us would be hard pressed without utilities such as power.
We need to be able to live near work we can do, or be able to arrange some form of transportation to the work location.
Most likely f us need some form of communication.

And then the more optional items come into play.
Religious, spiritual, or philosophical exploration.
Education.
Staying informed.
Seeking out new information.
Interacting with our work, social, financial, educational institutions.
Staying connected to family/friends/work in a manner customary to the group (it can limit one’s opportunities to advance or be accepted if we can’t use normal means.)
Medical care (this is not optional at some points in life for most of us, and for some people is not optional at any time - unless we are ok with average lifespans of less than 40-50 years.)

And then there are strictly optional items.
Sports -participatory or not
Gaming
Entertainment media
Entertainment travel
Other hobbies.
Etc

All of these fit along some scale of necessity or optional expense. People will disagree. Some of them are not necessary for biological life, but are very necessary if one wishes to advance or have financial choice. I’ll leave it to the economists to work out the fine print.

Yes, the thread started out about data caps, and for most of us, expensive, fast, high data usage is hobby, not necessity. Just like tv. But threads wander. To me, that’s cool.

And if there are data caps, we don’t have to like it. And we get to discuss and bitch about it. And we get to complain about limited choice and near-monopolies.

I don’t see anyone here wanting to make a martyr of you. What I don’t quite get is why you appear to believe people here don’t already understand they have economic choice, and that scarcity of resources is a bitch? And wonder why it’s not socially ok to complain a bit?

@f00l Bless you for speaking for the group.

@therealjrn
I am not speaking for the group. And you know that. I just estimate the writer’s intentions and knowledge by reading the post. And I may be wrong regarding my estimations, or antlything else I’ve said.

And there is such a thing as reading or parsing casual conversation too literally. Perhaps I am guilty of that also.

I don’t believe that all complaining is necessarily evil or dysfunctional, tho it can be be that if used as a crutch for failing to move forward. Complaining can be a form or stress relief, and can serve as a platform for all sorts but f social communication and glue and a spur to innovation. And complaining can also be toxic, to the individual, to the group. JMHO.

I don’t quite know why we’re arguing, if that’s what we’re doing. I quite like hearing your point of view.

Regarding “try” vs “do”

My understanding of modern brain research is pretty minimal. But what I get out of what I read from reputedly reputable sources is that “proper trying” (or “deep rehearsal”, which is very very hard) literally is equivalent to “doing”. Even if the person “trying” or “doing” falls flat on their face.

“Whiny trying” is another matter.
“Drunk trying” is yet another matter.

/giphy whiny trying

/giphy drunk trying

@f00l Oh, no, I don’t think we’re arguing, don’t ever forget you were my first here. Didn’t that mean something? Or were you just 'ing me and tossing me aside like all those others?

But I was specifically pinged and somebody tried to tell me why I should care about bandwidth caps and ever since I’ve been trying to explain why a fuck I do not give. lol

@therealjrn
Cool. No, I haven’t tossed you aside like all the others … Yet.

So be vewwwy vewwwy good if you know what’s good for you.

Re: stars.
Sometimes I miss something. Sometimes I star and it doesn’t take. Sometimes I don’t like something - has seemingless expressed excessive hostility, post seems mean-spirited or destructive, or post seems to be obvious and “lecture-y”, miss the point, or be poorly reasoned, or too arrogant - and then on 2nd or 4th reading I change my mind and star it. Or not.

You should never feel secure in my approval.

“Ah, but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp, Or what’s a heaven for?”

@TheMonkeyKing