@shahnm I think you’re gonna need a bigger refrigerator to hold an assortment of these…

@phendrick @shahnm You could use this as backup power for your battery fridge.

@shahnm The creation of battery life may be a miracle to some, but it is really just basic cell biology.

@rpstrong
/giphy I see what you did there

@2many2no Why would you think I don’t already have that?!? With redundancy!!

@Euniceandrich That’s cool. I wonder if the website owner’s collaborated on this.

@Euniceandrich Pairs nicely with most deals here:

(Currently on casemates.com)

@Euniceandrich @yakkoTDI They are under the same umbrella

@xterraguy woosh

@xterraguy @yakkoTDI No, that was “Woot”.

@craigthom Nope. They just have to generate.

@craigthom Yeah, I hate when they call the battery banks “generators” as well. They don’t generate anything, they store.

@hchavers Yeah, it’s dumb. Sometimes they have a DC input and get the even more confusing designation of “solar generator”.

@hchavers I agree that the term ‘generator’ should not be used for these, as they do not have fuel-powered engines and do not emit exhaust…but I struggle to come up with a proper term for them. They’re too large to be accurately called power banks. I’ve seen several companies call them ‘power stations’, which I guess works.

@hchavers @jandrese

Something I’ve always wondered, if a battery pack charged from solar panels is a “solar generator”, then a battery pack charged from a gas generator must be a… “gas generator”?

@hchavers @PooltoyWolf Technically you can argue that “batteries” are “generators”, generating electricity from a chemical process instead of the combustible fuel process, but this usage today probably comes from the (addled) mind of a marketing wonk.

@hchavers @PooltoyWolf These are power storage units. A generator converts kinetic energy from an engine, wind turbine, water turbine, or other mechanical power source into electrical output. These do not do that, they just store and return energy. Solar panels convert radiant energy to electrical energy. They could credibly be called “solar generators”. But using the term “generator” is a misapplication when referring to a battery pack, and there are far too many tech-illiterate people around who will not understand the falsity of the description.

@hchavers @phendrick @PooltoyWolf “Marketing Wonk” aka “Marketing A$$hole.” Like EVERY politician, these folks - among other worthless classes of humans - are all LIARS. (And liars are the only people I HAT8 with a passion. Every one of them needs a 10 gm Pb dose to the brain.

@drz
[ @hchavers @PooltoyWolf ]
LOL.
Whom do you exchange the most Christmas cards with, the ATF, the FBI, or DHS?
Not that I don’t share some of your basic esteem.

@drz @hchavers @phendrick @PooltoyWolf @werehatrack @awk In many applications, this class of device can be used as direct replacements for portable gas powered generators of the same or lesser ratings. Note that some inexpensive gasoline powered generators have a lower mean time to failure, MTTF, than the cycle life of very inexpensive Li-Ion batteries. The MTTF of an unmaintained gas engine can be surprisingly short.

This kind of device are often used as replacements for portable generators that died, were too noisy, or were stolen. These silent maintenance free “generators” can be used inside a tent or in a bedroom without bothering other campers or the neighbors.

These can safely be recharged while in use. It is not recommended to add gas to a running engine.

We tend to have power failures that last for days at my house. The overpriced 50 watt solar panel add-on would need more than a day of sunshine to fully recharge even the smallest unit on sale here today. So I haven’t bothered to compare prices on the other parts.

@hamjudo I am unaware of any gas-powered generator whose documentation states that it is safe for indoor use in a residential setting. All of the ones I’ve checked explicity state that they are for use outdoors or in well ventilated locations. All of the convention centers, without exception, completely prohibit their use, even if run on propane (which has far fewer problematic emissions). Part of the reason is the gasoline itself; the fumes that vent from the tank can build up to an explosion hazard.

@hchavers @PooltoyWolf @werehatrack solar panels can’t be called “solar generators” either, because they don’t generate solar, they collect solar.

@hchavers @jandrese
I might have a couple of those so called “solar generators”.
After sunset we just flip them on and it is bright again. Used to be tungsten, but I got the fancy LED ones.

@werehatrack Pronouns are hard for me to get right. I meant to say that because gasoline powered generators must be used outside their home or tent, they are easy to steal. If someone replaces a gasoline powered generator with a lithium battery bank, they can safely use their new lithium unit inside.

@hamjudo You might be amused to know that one overly enterprising merchant thought that by putting their whisper-quiet gas generator inside the fabric-walled storage area of their booth, they could get away with using that to run their lighting and cash registers during a convention where I was staffing a different booth. It went awry. A fire marshal found out about it, and had them ejected from the event. The same fire marshal inspected my SLA battery setups and pronounced them fully within code, to the annoyance of the convention center folks who wanted to insist on selling me an electrical hookup for the weekend at $275. (That was more than I’d spent on the two SLA setups plus chargers.)

@PooltoyWolf Thanks, fixed!

@troy On my end, I see 7 outlets listed for all of them, but the outlet details in parentheses all add up to 6 (or in the case of the largest one, 5). This is in the description post here on this page.

@PooltoyWolf well darn! Our system seems to be very slpw to update. Will check back in a few hours.

@troy No worries, just something I noticed and figured I’d flag it!

@Kidsandliz that’s sold by us (SideDeal on Amazon), and we don’t comp to ourself.

@Kidsandliz @troy I had no idea you sold on Amazon. That’s neat! (I think.) Do you also go anywhere else, like ebay?

@xobzoo we’re on Walmart too! Maybe some other sites too in the near future.

@troy @xobzoo I didn’t know you did that either. I guess I will need to look at the seller on Amazon in the future. My link says it is the battery biz store, not SideDeal though. Do you create a new store name for each kind of product you are selling?

@Kidsandliz that’s the original store name that was selling these on Amazon. On the right side you’ll see the “SideDeal” as the seller. Do a Ctrl+F if you have trouble finding it

@troy Ah. Ok. I see that now. Didn’t look there, just at the store name. I didn’t know you could be a seller under someone else’s store. I only knew about the see other sellers link.

@Kidsandliz @troy And according to Coleman, that would make Sidedeal an unauthorized reseller

@sfwineguy All lithium-chemistry batteries can be called “lithium ion”, even the polymer type. It’s the most generic and least specific term, which gives the user flexibility in who they source cells from as long as they are not undershooting their promised capacity. (And no one would ever do that, of course. It would be wrong.)

@werehatrack I concur with the general point, but lithium iron phosphate is basically always called out because it’s premium. So you know it ain’t that. I didn’t see any charge cycle info, which would have given it away.

And the power capacity is easy to check - after you’ve bought the battery.

Aren’t these likely to be NMC? Pretty good capacity for size, pretty good C rates, but shorter cycle life and more chance to go “boom” (or whatever sound fire makes) than lithium iron phosphate? I’m not a chemical engineer, just a guy who likes to be able to run his stuff when there’s no power coming in from the wall.

@sfwineguy NMC is possible. Not likely, I hope, but possible. I can safely say that they won’t be using polymer-pillow cells either (which suits me just fine).

@KlfJoat yup-- lazy staff not bothering to double check things

@KlfJoat That’s because it was copied verbatin from sidedeal a few days ago, where the 200W was an option

@narfcake =P2E 500 as well. As of last I checked, all three brands came from the same actual manufacturer. A cursory examination of the Coleman 500 will confirm that it is externally identical to the Duracell and P2E units except for color and branding. There are probably QC differences in the three, however. (Or at least, I hope so.)

@werehatrack Correct, hence including the link to the recent discussion thread.

@narfcake @werehatrack Yes, the P2E “generator” is identical, and the PCBs are likely identical, yet there’s no saying if the cells/battery pack assembly is better or worse. I’d suspect that the Duracell > Coleman > P2E if there was QA ‘binning’ going on before slapping the final cover on.

@phendrick @awk …equal time & opportunity…

@mediocrebot Either you forgot something or i’ve gone completely blind.

@mediocrebot @phendrick Yeah it doesn’t seem operational.

@awk @mediocrebot And no “woman” ! ??

@awk @mediocrebot @phendrick what is a woman anyhow?

@awk @mediocrebot @phendrick @qazxto Looks more like an overcomplicated belt sander.

@alacrity Except for maybe the 1000 and 1500, they don’t, at least not for any of my waffle irons. The ones I have are rated at 1200W continuous, and even the 1000W and 1500W will barf and run out of power quickly under that level of draw. Note that according to their table, a 900W coffee maker will run the 1000W down after 5 pots, and the 1500W will only make two more. Given warm-up time requirements, a 1200W waffle iron (that’s what most full-size ones draw) will likely drain it making less than half a dozen waffles, if the load doesn’t cause it to go into a heat-induced shutdown.

@werehatrack so you’re saying these make shitty waffles?

@ShotgunX “Li-ion” is a generic term that is applicable to all lithium-chemistry batteries. It’s the least specific descriptor, and is likely used to dodge the issue of uncertainty about precisely which chemistry a given cell supplier is employing. Yes, it makes a difference in several areas. But if the batteries are up to the required spec to provide the promised performance, at least they aren’t misrepresenting anything by being vague.

@werehatrack Okay, well, then what is the battery chemistry here?

@ShotgunX Given how most “make this for us” contracts with Chinese industries actually work, the people at this end may not know. And even if a specific chemistry was called out in the contract, the effects of chabuduo mindsets may result in such terms not being closely honored. Firms that have moved their production to China have routinely discovered that if they don’t have their own people present at the factory to do continuous QC, they won’t get what they need. (And a distressing number don’t care. I have no data concerning that about the folks involved here.)

@werehatrack That is an answer that doesn’t really help anyone. Most of these things are made with NMC cells, with iron phosphate being the more “recent” tech. People just want to know if this product is “conventional” lithium ion, or the “safer” iron phosphate version.

Signs point to these units using NMC cells, specifically the operating temperature and the weight.

The product description is insufficient, and this product line doesn’t seem to be popular enough to get quality reviews online. This isn’t good, considering the price.

@ShotgunX @werehatrack The fact that they do not tout 2,000 charge cycles or higher makes me think they are the basic Lithium type.

@ShotgunX @werehatrack The design will require ‘standard’ 3.6V NMC Li-Ion cells of a minimum capacity of, say, 2500mAh, but the cells that will come in one of these things will certainly vary vendors, probably even among the few hundred of these that meh has to peddle.

@bartsimpson Note that the first line in the description says “Brand: Phase 2 Energy”

@jwarner112 search “slick deals solar generator” on a search engine. You’ll fund better. My price point for these no name units is 75 bucks. personally. Go with a big name if you are looking to buy one for hundreds of dollars.

@jwarner112 no, these are not that great. A ps54 or the 720 Whr version from bluetti on Walmart.com are better. They wouldn’t work as a UPS either though, just pass through.

@ohhwell Why? I don’t know much about these to be able to be very discriminating.

@Kidsandliz Just do some comparison shopping on Amazon and you’ll see better deals even for the top brands, especially if you wait for sales.

The one being sold here today doesn’t even have any real online reviews or spec sheets. It would be an acceptable risk as maybe 60% of the cost.

@Kidsandliz battery chemistry is likely older NMC lithium and the cells are likely old as well. Almost everything these days is at least lifepo4. These are rebranded as a few other things so the Coleman branding means nothing.

Bluetti often runs some good deals on wlamart.com. ecoflow as well.

These are just not a good buy at these prices. Maybe 3 years ago…

@CatDust basically anything that will allow charging and discharging at the same time. However, use as a UPS (constantly sitting at ~100%) is probably not great for any Li-Ion chemistry. If you could set the target charge to, say, 80-90% it’d fare better long term.

@caffeineguy @CatDust This is part of the reason why most UPS units still use SLA. The much lower cost and ease of replacement of the SLA battery is another.

@caffeineguy @werehatrack
Not sure about the overall lower cost. SLA batteries just don’t last but 3-5 years for me. I’m thinking the Li-ion should hold out at least 10, maybe longer if the management system does not constantly charge like @caffeineguy suggest many probably do.

@caffeineguy @CatDust @werehatrack The bigger reason for SLA batteries in UPS is discharge current. A 1000VA UPS (8.3A at 120V) requires nearly 42A in a typical 2 battery setup (24V). Smaller LFP batteries are typically not capable of such high discharge currents without damage.

@CatDust many of the slightly higher end models from Anker, ecoflow, bluetti etc. Offer true UPS functionality. They will tout a quick switch over time.

Many cheaper banks will allow for pass through but you don’t really want that as it severely diminishes the battery life.

@longhallowl Know what you mean-bought another battery pack from meh that bit the big one soon after purchase.

Keeping my fingers crossed that buying one from a brand name company that is still on sale other places will guarantee a longer life than other things I have purchase from meh.

@Felton10 @longhallowl it usually does. I bought a ps54 for $205 from Walmart ($248 now) last year and it has been perfect.

I did buy one of those snugmax vickers things from meh like 2 or three years ago and somehow it is still working well so… I guess my anecdotal evidence is kinda meh.

@godainobaka Looked to me like a typical warranty - where’s the wiggle?

@rpstrong the section “unauthorized dealer list and warning,” specifically.

@godainobaka @rpstrong There were toothbrushes, lawsuits, upset buyers… This might be the scandalous product of 2024-- Colemehngate; Will we get a special coin? Commemorative plaque?

@godainobaka If meh is only offering a 90 day warranty, Sidedeal’s Amazon reseller page is likely an unauthorized dealer; Wonder if these are on meh because of the final bullet…

BEWARE OF COUNTERFEIT PRODUCTS
Like many premium goods, COLEMAN battery generator and solar panel products are being duplicated and sold, usually at drastically reduced prices and diminished quality. These products do not meet Battery-Biz, Inc and COLEMAN standards. These products are not covered under Battery-Biz, Inc’s COLEMAN warranty

@caffeineguy We charged $199.99 for the P2E 500W. $229.99 is not quite double…

@troy You charged $99 in 10/2023 for the refurbished 500W P2E one I bought; AFAIC, a new one of these has the same quality and concerns as a refurbished one

@caffeineguy @troy “Refurbished” is not the same as “identical” - regardless of what you C.

@caffeineguy
Yeah, too bad they’re generators. Some campsites prohibit the use of generators. You can still use a battery-bank, but definitively not a generator…

@caffeineguy @formfeed lol

@ShopperX123 Let them know at meh.com/support, they’re the ones who can fix it.