Banned Books Week 2014

@joelmw I have to say, I think banning books is different from removing them from a curriculum. I'm not a fan of censorship in general, but I do think parents should have a say in what their children are exposed to at school and especially what they are required to read

@Kleineleh I disagree. A large part of education is exposing kids to things that they may not have come across at home. If it is age appropriate and part of the curriculum, I think kids should read it. Hiding books or information only ever dumbs down a population.

@Thumperchick I agree. I just think parents should have a say in determining what is age-appropriate for their children. That said, there are a lot of parents out there who need to take a more active role in their children's educations. But again, just because it isn't required doesn't mean it's not available

@Kleineleh No one was being forced to read anything: "If parents object to a book, they can request another option for their child." The action is in fact about removing the books from what is allowed in class.

@Kleineleh I can appreciate both the need to provide age-appropriate (and otherwise appropriate) material for kids in school. The age group referenced is teenagers. Honestly, this is exactly the sort of material that I would expect my child to be discussing in class at that age, and I much prefer it to the nonsense (i.e., about these same topics) she might hear and see elsewhere. As is usually the case, these parents want these much-lauded books removed (for everyone, not just their kids) because of a few "objectionable" passages and precisely for their disturbingly realistic subject matter.

@Kleineleh Finally, banning books is exactly about limiting access. The fact is that any attempt to limit access will only ever be partially be "successful." There is a continuum and this may not be at the extreme end of that continuum, but IMO it crosses a line.

@joelmw Children are not allowed, by law, to watch movies with graphic sex scenes in them, why should books containing the same be part of their curriculum? Is there something about the printed word that is somehow less effective than a movie?

@Kleineleh That being said, I don't mean to be obnoxious. I've got plenty of friends who feel the same as you. And, of course, I fully support your right to express your opinion openly. :-)

@tightwad I don't think I ever implied that we should expose kids to pornographic reading material, and in fact I very specifically said that I think it's proper that books be evaluated according to their age-appropriateness.

@tightwad But, now that you mention it, I do think that most of how we censor film and television in this country is Victorian, arbitrary and nonsensical. The presence of difficult subject matter or exposure of flesh don't IMO in themselves constitute inappropriate viewing material for teenagers. But even in that there's room for parents to make decisions about their own kids, in terms of what they do and don't them to watch. If I judge an R-rated film appropriate for my teenager, the whole point is that I can make that choice--and as a matter of fact if they're in the custody of another adult who's okay with it, they have access through that adult.

@tightwad Part of why I want this sort of material in the classroom is because I think it not only tolerable but necessary that we expose kids to the reality of the world around them. If anything, folks who are concerned should be grateful that this exposure takes place in a controlled environment, with responsible adults and with quality literature. As a parent, I always was always mindful of the sorts of potential misinformation my child might receive in the classroom (or elsewhere). Mere exposure to "graphic" material was the least of my concerns. And, yes, reactionary religion and politics were among the greatest (seeing as she attended high school in Texas).

@tightwad The PG13 rating, however, allows for sexual content, breasts, violence, and cursing. Yet some parents believe that written material containing this content should be pulled from the shelves. No one is advocating for a XXX section in the school library.

@joelmw I certainly don't disagree that kids need to understand the world they live in and it's dangers. I do however question that English class is the place to teach that. There are many thousands of well written books that can be used to demonstrate correct writing etc. @Thumperchick PG13 doesn't allow for the depiction/description of Rape, that actually requires an NC-17 rating.

@tightwad I'm not a parent so maybe my opinion would be different if I was, but unless you homeschooled your kid or kept them extremely sheltered there's a good chance they already know much more than you think, especially about the things that parents typically try to shelter their kids from. I think it’s better for kids to be exposed to as many different ideas as possible and have conversations with their peers and teachers about them. You would think that parents who are involved enough to push to ban books at a school are involved enough to want to discuss these books and their ideas with their kids, even if they lead to difficult conversations.

@tightwad If only that were true. Sucker Punch (PG 13,) Girl With the Dragon Tattoo (R,) just to name two.

@tightwad To add here; are we acting like rape isn't something teenagers are aware of? Is murder okay? Or torture? All of which are part of their history class. Yes, some books go into uncomfortable detail. Yes, it's scary, sad, devastating. That means the book has done its job. English class is not just the exploration of sentence structure. It's the study of the art that people create with words. The history of human story telling. That history is beautiful, rich, filled with love and hate, war, poetry, and darkness. What benefit is there to hiding the darker part of humanity from teenagers?

@tightwad The reason classes are the place for literature isn't so simply to expose students to ideas but to be able to react to them and discuss them with their peers in a culturally secure context with an adult who can fill in context the student peers lack. If a parent is preventing that and not doing it himself or herself -- again, with that child's peers -- they're actively preventing the healthy development of that child.

( tl;dr What @JonT said. Last night, I guess. Thanks for making me be so redundant, @studerc.)

@editorkid It's cool, I thought what you wrote added a lot and is what I was going for.

@JonT Oh. Well. Um. So I guess I have to thank @studerc less sarcastically. takes deep breath, sucks it up Thanks, @studerc!

@Thumperchick I get outraged reading the list of banned books. Who would ban Bridge to Terabithia?! I had to take a walk and think about life after reading that book. Why would we deprive our children of these books?!? *shakes fist in the air

@Thumperchick Very well said. Of course as I recall from the story about your username, you have always been a smart-alecky troublemaker. :-)

@joelmw A well read smart-alecky troublemaker! There was never a "that's too old for you" book in our home. If I could read it, I was allowed to. I read Stephen King at 9/10, Victor Hugo at 11. Any time that sensitive subjects came up and I had questions, I just asked my parents what it was. Well read kids make for successful adults.

@joelmw I read that in high school and I am not sure I understood all of it then...

@joelmw That really is a fantastic book. I didn't read it until I was past school age but I remember being surprised that it was banned (the title is so scary I guess) and what an outstanding book it is. I've read other Rushdie books and enjoyed them, but there's a feeling associated with this one that has not been matched. I wish I didn't have such a large stack of books to read, I'd reread this next.