@yakkoTDI and I was hoping it would go the other way — go back to normal human time and stay there!
But I heard that the politicians couldn’t decide and commit to any plan, so I don’t see a change coming either way to the mess we now have. And by that I mean both annoying time changes and annoying politicians.
@pmarin@yakkoTDI I agree. Medically it is better to stay on standard time because savings time in the winter screws up our circadian clock and that creates a number of medical issues over time.
@Kidsandliz@pmarin I will take my extra hour of daylight after work so I can ride my bicycle longer without dragging lights along. Also, I sold my circadian clock years ago and just get my few hours of sleep between 00:30 and 04:30.
@yakkoTDI I want my extra hour of afternoon productivity when the temps get lower; DST makes me wait later in the day before I can get the shop and equipment up to a temp that makes production possible. With a 5PM cutoff for shipping, if I can’t start printing until 1PM, I have only three hours to run the press, allowing an hour to sort and pack what’s going out. With standard time, I’d start printing at noon.
@Kidsandliz@Kyeh@pmarin Well I am no longer young and I don’t ride as much bicycle as I used to so I sleep more. A sit on your butt all day job doesn’t help either.
I used to only sleep about 2.5 hours a night but that was back when low calorie days were around 6000 calories.
@Kidsandliz@Kyeh@pmarin@yakkoTDI
The amount of sleep a person needs is not universal, and highly affected by genetics (as well as lifestyle). Apparently some people get by with just a few hours of sleep per day, while others need more than the typical 7-8 hours.
Of course, I can’t comment on whether yakkoTDI is getting enough sleep, but I find it very plausible.
Tangent:
Although it doesn’t sound like it applies here, getting your sleep in the right pattern around the clock (e.g. 20-minute naps on the right schedule) can let you be healthy with significantly less total sleep than if you get it in just one lump. This is commonly called “polyphasic sleep” and I found it really awesome the time I tried it.
(I was theoretically sleeping 3.5 hours in early morning, and 3 naps during the day, for a total of about 4½-5 hours … but in practice it was at least an hour more than that. Getting into the routine was a bit difficult, and I never really got completely there, but the naps made me feel great. Unfortunately, “real life” often interferes, especially with work schedules, and I found it difficult to maintain.)
Anyway, my point was that — from what I learned about polyphasic sleep — some people are able to remain “healthy” on significantly less sleep per day than the rest of us. (but there are also others who suffer greatly from it)
I thought I could quickly find some references, but they weren’t as easy to find as I thought. Too deep of a rabbit hole, I guess. Or else I’m too lazy or something.
Ultimately, the research still very limited and opinions vary greatly. And, as always, YMMV.
@Kidsandliz@Kyeh@pmarin@xobzoo Additionally it is quality of sleep. Over the years I have figured out things to make me sleep better.
Friday night/Caturday morning I sleep a little different and thus a little longer. This is mainly to fight back against how early I wake up for my job during the week.
Caturday night/Sunday morning is determined by the Formula 1 and/or the mountain biking with friends schedule.
Lastly if I need more sleep then I just sleep more. I rarely try to fight falling asleep as long as I am not in the office.
@xobzoo Excellent write up. In my early 20s I had a midnight to 8:00 am job. My sleep pattern was come home and sleep for about 2 hours, get up and hang out with friends all day and then around 9:30 pm I would just go in my room and turn off all the lights and listen to music. I didn’t always sleep but I did rest until I had to get ready for work.
A tangential note; the Fitbit app fails to account for the time change; it calculates sleep time based on the clock readings, not the actual elapsed period. As a result, it thought I slept an hour less than I actually did. Conversely, I’ve had phone alarms go off an hour late on spring-forward morning because they went by a miscalculated elapsed time instead of monitoring the phone’s clock, and there’s often no way to know in advance if a given phone alarm app is going to misbehave that way. A dumb clock set by a smart human is going to produce more reliable results when an alarm is needed on time change days.
@werehatrack We recently took a road trip that crossed into a different time zone. We stopped for lunch in a town in the same state but just over the time line. We noticed that my wife’s phone had auto-adjusted to the new zone, but mine had not. I dug down in the settings and found that there was an option to track time zones or not and the two phones had different settings. Both phones are from the same maker and only slightly different models; both had the same Android version installed. Neither of us had ever touched the setting. Weird.
I just wish it was as easy to reset the pets to the time change as it is to reset the clocks. Stupid cat was outside the bedroom door meowing for breakfast at 6:00 this morning, soon followed by the dog woofing his request for AM outside time.
OH HELL NO, I just read that they want to make daylight savings time permanent and that means in my area (metro Detroit) the sun wouldn’t rise till 9am. That’s fucking bullshit. How are parents supposed to put little kids on the bus in pitch black and that totally fucks up all our industries that rely on the sun as a workday. Death to daylight savings time being permanent
@Star2236 It’s a conspiracy being pushed by the southern states, right? “…
Florida has more sunshine in winter and less in summer than the Northern States. In Florida the shortest day in the year is only about three hours shorter than the longest day, but along the northern border of the United States there is a difference of nearly eight hours.” (https://fcit.usf.edu/florida/docs/f/florid07.htm)
@OldCatLady@Star2236 I think more it’s due to demand from people who want to go hiking, bicycling or golfing when they get home after work. And I wouldn’t doubt that there is considerable lobbying money going to politicians in support of this, since the “leisure” industries are big business.
Who lobbies for kids? I think not many. Not much money in getting kids to the bus in daylight.
This should be the last fallback for us. We are springing forward next year and leaving that shit alone.
@yakkoTDI and I was hoping it would go the other way — go back to normal human time and stay there!
But I heard that the politicians couldn’t decide and commit to any plan, so I don’t see a change coming either way to the mess we now have. And by that I mean both annoying time changes and annoying politicians.
@pmarin @yakkoTDI I agree. Medically it is better to stay on standard time because savings time in the winter screws up our circadian clock and that creates a number of medical issues over time.
@Kidsandliz @pmarin I will take my extra hour of daylight after work so I can ride my bicycle longer without dragging lights along. Also, I sold my circadian clock years ago and just get my few hours of sleep between 00:30 and 04:30.
@yakkoTDI I want my extra hour of afternoon productivity when the temps get lower; DST makes me wait later in the day before I can get the shop and equipment up to a temp that makes production possible. With a 5PM cutoff for shipping, if I can’t start printing until 1PM, I have only three hours to run the press, allowing an hour to sort and pack what’s going out. With standard time, I’d start printing at noon.
@Kidsandliz @pmarin
@yakkoTDI You sleep only 4 hours a night?
@Kidsandliz @Kyeh @pmarin Well I am no longer young and I don’t ride as much bicycle as I used to so I sleep more. A sit on your butt all day job doesn’t help either.
I used to only sleep about 2.5 hours a night but that was back when low calorie days were around 6000 calories.
@Kidsandliz @pmarin @yakkoTDI
Yikes - I’ve never heard of anyone being able to get by on 2.5 hours a night!
@Kidsandliz @Kyeh @pmarin @yakkoTDI
The amount of sleep a person needs is not universal, and highly affected by genetics (as well as lifestyle). Apparently some people get by with just a few hours of sleep per day, while others need more than the typical 7-8 hours.
Of course, I can’t comment on whether
yakkoTDIis getting enough sleep, but I find it very plausible.Tangent:
Although it doesn’t sound like it applies here, getting your sleep in the right pattern around the clock (e.g. 20-minute naps on the right schedule) can let you be healthy with significantly less total sleep than if you get it in just one lump. This is commonly called “polyphasic sleep” and I found it really awesome the time I tried it.
(I was theoretically sleeping 3.5 hours in early morning, and 3 naps during the day, for a total of about 4½-5 hours … but in practice it was at least an hour more than that. Getting into the routine was a bit difficult, and I never really got completely there, but the naps made me feel great. Unfortunately, “real life” often interferes, especially with work schedules, and I found it difficult to maintain.)
Anyway, my point was that — from what I learned about polyphasic sleep — some people are able to remain “healthy” on significantly less sleep per day than the rest of us. (but there are also others who suffer greatly from it)
I thought I could quickly find some references, but they weren’t as easy to find as I thought. Too deep of a rabbit hole, I guess. Or else I’m too lazy or something.
Ultimately, the research still very limited and opinions vary greatly. And, as always, YMMV.
MEALS! DEALS! EELS! AWESOME!
@Kidsandliz @Kyeh @pmarin @xobzoo Additionally it is quality of sleep. Over the years I have figured out things to make me sleep better.
Friday night/Caturday morning I sleep a little different and thus a little longer. This is mainly to fight back against how early I wake up for my job during the week.
Caturday night/Sunday morning is determined by the Formula 1 and/or the mountain biking with friends schedule.
Lastly if I need more sleep then I just sleep more. I rarely try to fight falling asleep as long as I am not in the office.
@xobzoo Excellent write up. In my early 20s I had a midnight to 8:00 am job. My sleep pattern was come home and sleep for about 2 hours, get up and hang out with friends all day and then around 9:30 pm I would just go in my room and turn off all the lights and listen to music. I didn’t always sleep but I did rest until I had to get ready for work.
@Kidsandliz @pmarin @yakkoTDI Um. “Standard Time” is the winter one.
Which is just 4 months.
Makes you wonder why that would be “standard”.
Myself, I like to think of it as Daylight Losing Time. Because that’s what’s happened to my afternoon.
@brainmist @Kidsandliz @yakkoTDI it used to be longer than 4 months. Then the damned politicians and you Summer-lovers kept chipping away at it.
I actually like it bc it gets dark so early in the winter and that extra hour really makes a difference.
@Star2236
A tangential note; the Fitbit app fails to account for the time change; it calculates sleep time based on the clock readings, not the actual elapsed period. As a result, it thought I slept an hour less than I actually did. Conversely, I’ve had phone alarms go off an hour late on spring-forward morning because they went by a miscalculated elapsed time instead of monitoring the phone’s clock, and there’s often no way to know in advance if a given phone alarm app is going to misbehave that way. A dumb clock set by a smart human is going to produce more reliable results when an alarm is needed on time change days.
@werehatrack We recently took a road trip that crossed into a different time zone. We stopped for lunch in a town in the same state but just over the time line. We noticed that my wife’s phone had auto-adjusted to the new zone, but mine had not. I dug down in the settings and found that there was an option to track time zones or not and the two phones had different settings. Both phones are from the same maker and only slightly different models; both had the same Android version installed. Neither of us had ever touched the setting. Weird.
@werehatrack I’ve got one clock that will auto-adjust for DST.
A few days late.
I can’t ever remember which one, so it always winds up two hours off.
I just wish it was as easy to reset the pets to the time change as it is to reset the clocks. Stupid cat was outside the bedroom door meowing for breakfast at 6:00 this morning, soon followed by the dog woofing his request for AM outside time.
@macromeh well clearly the cats know what time it is and are wondering what’s wrong with us.
OH HELL NO, I just read that they want to make daylight savings time permanent and that means in my area (metro Detroit) the sun wouldn’t rise till 9am. That’s fucking bullshit. How are parents supposed to put little kids on the bus in pitch black and that totally fucks up all our industries that rely on the sun as a workday. Death to daylight savings time being permanent
@Star2236 It’s a conspiracy being pushed by the southern states, right? “…
Florida has more sunshine in winter and less in summer than the Northern States. In Florida the shortest day in the year is only about three hours shorter than the longest day, but along the northern border of the United States there is a difference of nearly eight hours.” (https://fcit.usf.edu/florida/docs/f/florid07.htm)
@OldCatLady @Star2236 I think more it’s due to demand from people who want to go hiking, bicycling or golfing when they get home after work. And I wouldn’t doubt that there is considerable lobbying money going to politicians in support of this, since the “leisure” industries are big business.
Who lobbies for kids? I think not many. Not much money in getting kids to the bus in daylight.
[leisure? What happened to "i before e, except…]