What do you do if you can't sleep?
8I’ve always been an eight or nine hours a night sleeper. However, for the last couple of months, my sleep pattern has been completely thrown off.
I go to bed exhausted and then wake up after a couple of hours. I’m then up for five or six hours and then sleep for another hour or two. I then rinse and repeat the next night.
I’m exhausted. I’m dragging around all day and not getting much done. And I’m grumpy.
Do any of you have any suggestions on how Barney can get a good night’s sleep?
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Do you think you might have developed sleep apnea?
I was a great sleeper but it changed and did a sleep study and was shocked to learn I had the apnea. It wasn’t severe and I just need to sleep on my side to fall and stay asleep. If you don’t already sleep on your side you could try this to see if it helps.
@fjp999 I sure hope I don’t have sleep apnea. I’ve always been a side/stomach sleeper, so I’ve got that going for me, I guess.
@Barney sure hope you don’t either. Hoping you figure it out… restless sleep can be awful.
Is it the anniversary of anything traumatic? My mother and I both start quietly freaking out at the end of September, because that when bother her father and ex-husband (my grandfather and father) took turns for the worse that ended with their deaths, and her mother died in October, so the whole fall/beginning of winter season is SUPER stressful. And then there are anniversaries of various cancer diagnoses/surgeries. We used to joke that there was a couple-week OK stretch in August, but since our massive flood in July '17 that’s no longer the case. She’s never been a good sleeper, but it gets worse.
My point is, if something is going on, anything new and/or stressful, that could be causing or complicating your mood, sometimes putting a name on it helps.
@mossygreen Well, I have been tearing out paneling in my Mom’s basementI’ – I’m getting ready to sell her house. It’s turning out to be a bigger job than I thought it would be and, yes, it’s kind of stressful.
Also, I got this ugly green blanket from Meh…
@Barney Yeah, it’s probably the blanket.
@mossygreen That was what I thought of first.
Stimulate the release of prolactin, oxytocin, and vasopressin within my body.
or
/giphy box of wine
@medz Lady might enjoy boxed wine, but I’m not sure that it would do me much good.
@medz Wine is fine, but liquor is quicker.
I start an audio book. That always puts me to sleep so that I miss some of it and have to rewind and figure out the last thing I heard. I use the sleep timer so I don’t have to go too far back.
Or I start doing a New York Times crossword and wake up with the tablet next to me.
@craigthom I always fall asleep listening to my clock radio set to an oldies station. Does this date me?
have you changed your diet recently?
Iron deficiency can act that way, also harder to concentrate and when you wake up you’re still exhausted.
I’d look into that first, not just iron but all malnourishment. Lack of carbohydrates can also make you exhausted but usually won’t interrupt sleep. That’s my guess.
Get a few good meals, a nice steak see if you feel better.
@mwgm Are you buying?
Actually, I just had my yearly physical with blood draws galore. I think they would have found something, although now I could be anemic due to lack of blood.
@Barney Actually it usually doesn’t show up in standard tests, but if everything looks good then I’m probably barking up the wrong tree :0)
@mwgm Since these aren’t standard blood draws, I’m pretty sure they would have found something. However, I’ll still take you up on that steak dinner.
@Barney LOL. I’m willing to pay.
Messed up neurotransmitters can do what you describe. SSRI’s tend to help and have (for most) few side effects, but are prescription.
The pattern you describe us characteristic of depression among other things. Not saying that’s the cause. Just a possibility.
If messed up neurotransmitters are the cause, sometimes fixing the sleep prob in a non-forced, non-heavy-duty way also fixes the neurotransmitters orobs.
The prob can be self-perpetuating. So hope it gets dealt with.
For non-prescription remédies I use melatonin. Super cheap at Walmart. About zero side effects. You can take a lot, it won’t hurt you. Very little in the way of next-day hangovers that some sleeping pills trigger. And seriously non-toxic.
Melatonin is the same stuff you make in your body. The young have lots. Old farts have less. So it’s all good.
It’s not a sleeping pill. You may still wake up or have trouble getting to sleep but it will help. It will help much if you take as much of it as you need to get back to sleep.
I start with 2 or so when I need it. More every 15-30 minutes or so if i am still awake.
Eventually I sleep if I use this method.
Otoh perhaps you just need some college basketball, and then you’ll be fine after you get your fix.
@f00l Basketball might help.
@Barney @f00l
Having recently awakened from an 11 hour nap, I’m probably in the wrong thread. But ironically SSRIs made my sleep-weirdness even worse — I couldn’t get to sleep until 4 am, and then I spent the afternoon struggling to stay awake. Finally when everyone else went home I could take a nap. And this was every damn day.
I won’t say how many units of time I spent looking for something to counteract that side effect (the only side effect that mattered, really). Except I already knew of one that did just that — the downside being that it had a bus load of side effects of its own.
Eventually I gave in and learned to live with those side effects, because being perpetually jet lagged is no way to live.
Did this problem start when you got your new phone? There are studies linking phones and difficulties sleeping. Turn on your blue light filter at night.
/google blue light filter cell phone
How to Use a Blue Light Filter on Your Phone | Digital Trends
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-use-blue-light-filter-phone/
@jst1ofknd Honestly? I’m using my phone very little. However, this is good info to have if I ever go crazy and can’t pry myself away from it.
I lay there with one eye on the clock, dying a little inside each time the clock ticks away another minute of sleep I won’t be getting.
@ruouttaurmind Maybe you should count Vector robots.
@Barney Maybe Vector could read me a bedtime story…
@ruouttaurmind Time’s running out.
Doing it right now.
I tend to read stuff on Reddit. A lot of the time I can’t sleep because my mind is overwhelmed with stuff. Reading the answers on askreddit will take my mind away from my own problems so I don’t have that anxiety over my head anymore.
I also stay away from caffeine most of the time.
If I do wake up in the middle of the night, I’ll stay in bed unless I have to pee. Even if I have to get up, I’ll get back into bed without turning the lights on. If I feel wide awake, I’ll go back to reading stuff on the internet.
I watched a video the other night about “how to fall asleep in two minutes courtesy of the Navy” or something like that. Basically they suggest to lay on your back, arms at your sides, palms flat against the mattress. Relax your body completely. If you feel like you can’t relax, tense your body and try again. I’d tell you what the rest of the video said, but I was too bored, and fell asleep.
When I have a trouble sleeping, a little background white noise helps. I use a small fan set on low. Before that I tried drinking, worked for the first few nights but then, for the next decade or so, the side effects got to be ummm rather bothersome.
I can tell you what not to do. Sleep with cats. I have 3 in bed with me right now. At my feet, knee and shoulder. They think they own the bed and I am a pillow/heating pad/3am toy (well not a toy to the 17 year old, but the younger ones).
Here I am at 0105 reading the Meh forums because I cannot sleep. Haven’t had more than 5 hours of continuous sleep since surgery on the 2nd. Still ‘sleeping’ in a recliner and I will shift and stress my shoulder and wake up. Then it is an hour or more until the discomfort eases to where I can sleep.
Normally, I follow the navy regimen, which was taught to me back in ROTC thirty years ago. Except those few years where family life was extremely disrupted and anxiety and insomnia were never ending. Then I experimented with melatonin, ambien, or Benadryl…
Not offering suggestions cuz clearly I am a wreck.
@JnKL what is your navy regime for sleepless night?
@CaptAmehrican lay flat, legs together, arms tightly along your side. Without changing position, flex each set of muscles starting with your calves, then relax them. Next flex thighs, relax, glutes, relax, and so on up your body. By the time you are done, if you have done it right, you should be focused and relaxed enough to drop off to sleep.
Well, there’s a lot going on. Just had the clocks turn back, the holidays are coming up and you’re working in your mom’s basement, not to mention what else I don’t know. I found that when I reached a certain age, the clocks changing did affect me. Is your mind full at night? For myself, if I were to go to any message boards or the like, that would just keep me awake longer. A lot of good advice above. Try some melatonin, try to stay relaxed, stay away from caffeine as much as possible, if on a phone or laptop definitely use a blue light blocker (iris mini is good and free). And, no idea what your beliefs are but, if my mind is busy I find if I lay there in bed and pray for others and focus my mind off myself, I fall asleep easier and hopefully I stay asleep. Or read something. Nothing too riveting, that might just keep you awake. Maybe some sort of self help book. Sometimes I just play solitaire or freecell on my phone (with a blue light blocker). Hope you find an answer. Spinning your wheels at night not sleeping really sucks! Good thing is, it usually passes at some point.
Usually when I can’t sleep, I read. (Some very nice people on this forum bought me a Kindle and I use it all of the time.) But reading just hasn’t been working for me lately; I find myself reading most of the night.
So, keep thinking, mehtizens. If anyone comes up with a super good, sleep inducing idea, please let me know.
@Barney Ambien.
The best thing that puts my wife back to sleep in the middle of the night is my “monotonous voice” telling her a “boring story.” The side effect is by the time she’s back to sleep, I’ve woken up to tell a story and I can’t get back to sleep.
Barney, I could tell you a story.
Or, there’s a podcast called “Sleep With Me.” My wife has discovered that this guy who tells rambling stories in a monotonous voice, often interrupting himself going down rabbit holes, is an excellent substitute for me and my stories.
If you’ve never listened to a podcast, it’s really simple to access and listen to them. My source is Radio Public: https://radiopublic.com/SleepWithMe
But you can use iTunes or Stitcher or others.
My wife also uses melatonin, sometimes.
One other thought: when I was in my twenties, jobless, and alone, feeling like a winner and not sleeping, I tried something I read about, and it worked: reset your internal clock by staying awake a full 24 hours. Just don’t do anything potentially dangerous, like driving, during that time.
Good luck. Lack of sleep can bring you down. Just remember that it is temporary, this, too, shall pass, and look forward!
Tell us a(nother) story, @gregormehndel !
I usually fall asleep within 5 minutes of getting in bed. Then I wake up at 3 or 4am and lay awake, usually for an hour or more (I try not to look at the clock because that makes it even harder to go back asleep). If I do manage to fall asleep again before I have to get up, it is not restful and I get up feeling exhausted. I found that a combination of benadryl and melatonin extends my initial unbroken sleep period before waking enough that I actually feel rested. Unfortunately, if I take the benadryl too often, I get some unpleasant side effects.
@macromeh I tried benadryl once. It seemed like I was pretty listless most of the next day.
@Barney @macromeh I had benadryl with my chemo to counteract potential allergic reactions. Made me sleep through about the first 4 hours of it and then I’d drag (of course some of it was the chemo, but I am positive some was the benadryl fuzzy head effect).
@Barney @macromeh
Most Benadryl I find over the counter is time release. (This means capsules where the active ingredient is coated to variable thicknesses in order for the coatings to dissolve over time at variable times.)
The time release aspect is why people feel hungover the next day. The benadryl is still releasing or is recently released into the system.
Try to find non time release Benadryl. Hopefully pills not capsules. And chew it crush them when taken.
Or else just completely crush the capsule ingredients in a pill crusher (a few $ at any drugstore). This gets rid of the time release coating.
Then since the benadryl will hit all at once, start with a smaller amount. Only a portion of a capsule. Take more of the crushed stuff after a while if you need it.
One should then not feel nearly so sedated the next day.
I have Alexa play rainstorm. It’s soothing.
@sammydog01 Every night I have her playing either forest, rain, or thunder sounds.
Ask her to play “ocean surf with distant thunder” - one of my favorites.
Shock your sleep cycle. When scheduling allows, either stay awake or sleep through one day.
/image sleep one day
Samuel L Jackson to the rescue…
Drink more coffee
Try Noisli with the following settings:
Just those two… set a time for like 45-60 minutes and see how it works. Knocks me out pretty fast… but you know you might find a better combo for you.
website (free):
https://www.noisli.com/
app ($2 try the website to see if you like first) :
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.noisli.noisli
there is also an ios version, but you’re and android person I think.
@thismyusername I think I’ve discovered that I’m not an android person.
@Barney awww did you already give up on fi? oh well Noisli works in a web browser and there is a chrome browser extension as well.
by the way, fi now has even stronger network security…
https://blog.google/products/project-fi/project-fis-enhanced-network-brings-faster-more-secure-connections/
@thismyusername I’m still on Fi. It’s cheaper than going back to my landline.
On a good day it takes me an hour to fall asleep, and sometimes it seems to drag on forever.
Things I do to try and force the issue:
Footnote: If I find myself waving my arm in the air, it means I’m fucked for at least another hour or two. Sleep just ain’t happening.
I’m a huge fan of a LectroFan device.
It also happens that Woot has them on a rare sale for $30 (normally always $50 everywhere).
Woot! $30 LectroFan White Noise Machine
They are on sale because they have some newer designs now (evo, kinder, and micro models).
Worth it because you can put it in the bathroom or run it off a battery without having to power on your phone. Many “white noise apps” are ad based and want access to your contacts the network (use data) or location (wtf?) for no real reason to require it.
I have lifelong insomnia. I have a long list of tricks to get myself to go to sleep. Staying asleep is whole different challenge. But here are some of the things that help me. 1. Specific routine preparing for bed, checking locks, getting a drink of water, using the bathroom, everything always exactly the same. No sugar within 2hrs of bedtime. 2. I have an ocean sound maker, my brain associates that sound with sleepy time. 3. I tell myself a story. I take a book or a movie and just imagine new scenes, or a continuation after the film ended, or I add in characters from other material that I think would be interesting in that setting. It’s sort of the same idea as an audiobook, except for I’m the one telling the story. Sometimes the story follows me into my dreams which is pretty cool. This is a useful trick as I can also use it when I wake up and have trouble going back to sleep. I don’t permit myself to think about any real world matters, just stick to exploring my story. 4. When this doesn’t work, usually because I’ve allowed myself to become upset or anxious before sleep, I have herbal drops that are valerian and melatonin and that sort of thing that usually will quiet my mind. And when it’s really really bad I turned to Unisom chewable sleep tabs. But that’s a complete last resort. Unisomn doesn’t give me a sleeping pill hangover.
Don’t know if any of this’ll be useful to you, but, here:
I tend not to have trouble sleeping if I let myself stick to an inappropriately late, possibly revolving, schedule. When I try to go to bed early, or when I force myself to get up at the same time every day, I run into these weird patterns that sound like what you describe.
The way I usually get out of them is by whacking at my sleep schedule until it is looser, and then only allowing myself to go to bed slightly earlier from one night to the next and allowing myself to go back to bed for an hour or two in the morning after waking.
I’ve found this site useful for developing a mental model of my own sleep processes. (Accurate or otherwise…)
As far as interventions, every once in a while I will drug myself a little for one or two nights and then stop. 1 mg of time-release melatonin – as opposed to the usual kind – can be fantastic for sleeping longer and having cool dreams, and if anything, seems to tend to make it easier for me to get up in the morning (depending on when in the evening I take it – seems best maybe an hour or so before sleep). I’ve found 1-2 mg of non-time-release melatonin will help me get to bed half an hour or an hour earlier, but then I’ll tend to wake up early. Benadryl (same drug as unisom or zzzquil, a first-generation antihistamine, diphenhydramine hydrochloride) knocks me out, even at 25 mg (sleep dosage is usually 50, vs. 25 for allergies), but it’s still with me the next morning (makes sense, given the drug’s half life). I think I’ve found 200 mg of L-Theanine useful as a lighter-weight thing I can take to sleep earlier without overall disruption. Could be placebo, but, whatever.
Never taking drugs for anything other than brief shifts of maybe a half hour or an hour at a time makes it a lot easier to at least keep my schedule from getting way too late (the natural tendency), and avoids building a tolerance to whatever drug, which happens, in my experience, over the course of 2-3 nights of taking anything sleep-related (at least OTC).
In my own experience, alcohol, caffeine, and benadryl are all bad for the quality of my sleep in a way that is dramatic and noticeable, and a TV’s big glowing light will make me go to bed one or two hours later than I would have. Going to bed significantly early backfires about 90% of the time, and sleeping in is always a good idea. That’s just me though. Dim yellow lights and tired thoughts seem to make get more tired earlier (now that I got some Hue lights that can change the whitepoint and get dim).
(Edit) Since I’ve got all those dosages above, I’m a man, about 150 lbs, 30s. YMMV, of course – but don’t be afraid to take it easy on the melatonin, maybe in the 1-3 mg range. It’s a hormone, and you don’t want to downregulate your body’s own production of it. Even after taking it maybe 3-4 nights and stopping, it takes a while for me to get back to equilibrium.
Reading a book and/or listening to music on shuffle can help me get into a sleepy state of mind. But if the book grabs me too fast it can backfire.
This just occurred to me - sometimes I have to stay AWAKE overnight, and one thing I tried for a while was standing up and doing yogic breathing, i.e. long slow breaths where you completely fill and completely empty your lungs. I thought it might give me some restful energy, but instead I kept falling - literally - asleep! Might be worth trying, if you can fall into bed…
Sadly I medicate. Because if not, there’s zero sleep for days.
Yep. Self medicate - lotsabongs. Sucks for the memory though, at least in the short term…
@llangley I’m not sure about that, I can’t recall any problems in my memory
I’ve seen some articles on this sort of thing.
This Is the Best Sleeping Position, According to Science | @curiositydotcom
https://curiosity.com/topics/this-is-the-best-sleeping-position-according-to-science-curiosity?utm_source=androidapp
For Deeper Sleep and a Stronger Memory, Listen to “Pink Noise” | @curiositydotcom
https://curiosity.com/topics/for-deeper-sleep-and-a-stronger-memory-listen-to-pink-noise-curiosity?utm_source=androidapp
For Better Sleep, Banish Your Smartphone From the Bedroom | @curiositydotcom
https://curiosity.com/topics/for-better-sleep-banish-your-smartphone-from-the-bedroom-curiosity?utm_source=androidapp
The 4 Qualities of a Good Night’s Sleep, According to Sleep Experts | @curiositydotcom
https://curiosity.com/topics/the-4-qualities-of-a-good-nights-sleep-according-to-sleep-experts-curiosity?utm_source=androidapp
The 4-7-8 Breathing Technique Will Help You Get to Sleep Faster | @curiositydotcom
https://curiosity.com/topics/the-4-7-8-breathing-technique-will-help-you-get-to-sleep-faster-curiosity?utm_source=androidapp
And finally this one. Just for the fun of it.
Sperm Whales Sleep Very Strangely | @curiositydotcom
https://curiosity.com/topics/sperm-whales-sleep-very-strangely-curiosity?utm_source=androidapp
@jst1ofknd That pink noise is still way too high pitched for me. All these white noise generators have an almost nails on chalkboard effect for me. I use the ocean waves setting on my sound generator, on a setting just loud enough to hear it. This is pretty close although it’s still more high pitched, my device is more bass. I have a very low tolerance for high pitched sound. Of course the actual ocean is the very best, comes with that nice rocking motion.
I started a thread on this one some time ago. I regularly wake between 3-4am every night, and often can’t go bacl to sleep. Unfortunately I’ve still struggled with consistent sleep, so not sure what I can offer that’s not already here. Mine is definitely stress/anxiety related as I generally sleep through the night when I’m away (i.e. in a hotel).
Most advice/aids are around falling asleep, which I do very well, I just can’t stay that way. FWIW, the best things I’ve found to cope are:
/wootstalker https://home.woot.com/offers/lectrofan-white-noise-machine-11
LectroFan White Noise Machine
Price: $29.99
Condition: New
You’ve likely heard all of this before, but these are the strategies that bring me occasional success. Hope that helps!
@ACraigL Look up what bodily functions are attributed to what time of night. I did the same thing because my digestive was messed up. Changed some habits, and now sleep better.
@ghostinrags If you’re asking me if I get up to poop or pee, not usually unless I’ve been out drinking. I usually don’t eat past dinner and try not to drink anything after then as well.
Noise machines are a deal of the day on Amazon.
Also last night I perforce remembered a trick for going back to sleep when you’re wakeful in the middle of the night, at least during cold weather. You should always sleep with your room as cold as reasonably possible, as it discourages that subconscious (or conscious) desire to get up and do stuff. If you’re wakeful in the middle of the night, it can be very helpful to push off the covers and lay there and get chilled. Then pull the covers back over you and snuggle into the warmth. That really helps me go back to sleep.
@moondrake I do get my best sleep when it’s cold. I turn off the heat at night, throw an extra blanket on Lady, and snuggle down in my bed. So wonderful!
Really after a tiring day if you can not sleep is the worst struggle I was doing. like my brain just keeps thinking and I was wondering about the sleep. after a lot of research, I found many posts like maybe you have insomnia or any other issues but I think you must have good sleep routine and proper diet. Some foods will really help you to get proper sleep. there are some yogas you can prefer sleeping. Etc. The information which I found helpful. I would like to share. I hope it will help you too: Sleeping Tips
There are lots of suggestions for helpful meds on here, that usually work for a lot of people. I share your sleep pain, I have PTSD and sleep is not easy. I’m on meds for that, and my psych doctor has also tried lots of sleep meds for me (without success unfortunately). He also highly recommended doxycycline succinate, which is about $6 for 95 of them on Amazon, but to be honest I haven’t ordered them or tried them, though he swears by them. I’m kind of skeptical of meds, so if you’re like me in that regard, I have some cheesy ways to relax mentally at night, that sometimes help me. So, I will be super duper weird and cheesy and share some of the things I do:
-Go through the alphabet in your mind and think of a girl’s name that starts with each letter. When you get through, start with boy’s names. If you find your mind wandering from the task, bring it back to this and don’t allow yourself any other thoughts.
-While you are laying with the lights off as you would for sleep, close your eyes. Think about the room around you. Start with a corner of the room and work up, down, or to the side from there. As you see an item in your mind, change it into a shape. Completely replace whatever it is with a shape. What color would it be? What texture? Temperature? Weight? Would it make noise? Etc, etc. Once you have finished with an item, move to another and repeat the process.
-Pick a simple, common song that everyone knows, like the national anthem, or three blind mice, or take me out to the ball game. If you know a simple nursery rhyme or something similar by heart, that works also. Spell each word, slowly, and picture the letters in your mind, one at a time.
If all else fails, you can pretend you’re one of those creepy people on children’s CDs! But with a fun spelling twist, helping kids to both have nightmares about the alphabet AND torture their parents since 2018! Omg there is something wrong with me
But really, good luck. Not sleeping effects so many facets of your life, from health, to your disposition, to appetite, and so much more. Hope you get some rest!!
@LemonTheCat You are my kind of weird.
@Barney aw, I love you too, Barney!
Incidentally, although I don’t use a white-noise generator myself, we got a plug-in air purifier for a visit from my brother one time, and he said the white noise off the thing helped him sleep! I should find the name of the thing - GermGuardian? I unplugged it and now I’m not sure WHERE it is.
I guess I’m the opposite of just about everyone here. No white noise or any other kind of noise for me. If I put in earplugs (snoring husband) and block out all noise, I sleep like a baby. Thru storms, etc. I’ve used them every night for about 30 yrs or so up until now, since I"m by myself I’m trying to not use them. Figure I should be aware if Mr. S&W or Mr Glock need to make an appearance in the middle of the night.
As much as I like the sound of rain and surf, it would aid in keeping me awake.
I have difficulty sleeping most nights. Once, I decided to try soothing background noise to see if it helped. I used my phone to record a 60 second clip of a nearby babbling brook. Then I used some audio software to loop it into an hour of soothing sound to listen to when I go to bed. It worked great for a couple nights, but then I noticed that I had also caught a few seconds of a bird chirping in the recording which, of course, repeated with each loop. Then I found myself waiting for the bird as I tried to get to sleep, which kept me awake. Stupid OCD brain.
@macromeh That’s a common complaint with noise machines – no matter how subtle, you can pick up on the looping. That’s why I like the lectrofan I mentioned above. It’s electronically generated sounds so there is no looping, ever.
A glass of kefir works bestest for me.
Melatonin is my personal favorite. There will be those who are for and against it. Still my favorite - so fuck them.
@mfladd
/google Correct way to use melatonin
When and How to Take Melatonin for Insomnia Sleep Aid
https://www.verywellhealth.com/how-to-take-melatonin-3015192