So how was your day?
35My day started around 10:55 CT time last night. My phone began to ring…what could it be?..Surely it’s my Meh alarm reminding me of tonight’s new item. Wrong. My mother finally built up the courage and strength to tell me she was fully diagnosed with brain cancer and may live for another two years. After working through that conversation I nended a chance to decompress and checked Meh. Sure enough…a fukobukuro. Welp…things can’t get much worse, undefeated streak cast asunder.
Then, I saw it…the circuit breaker. A glimpse of light.
But, life can be fucked up.
Fast forward to 6:00am. My sister was found dead in her apartment by her roommate. Committed suicide after finding out that mom had cancer. Serious? Unfortunately yes…pretty devastating stuff, even for a guy like me who shows such little emotion.
Then I saw it…the circuit breaker. A waning glimpse of light in the worst day ever.
But…the streak isn’t worth it. I drove home to be with my family. Put the phone away all day until my dad finally said that I should distract myself with something. I came here…because this is also my family. I hate sharing bad news, but this is a place I feel comfortable venting my saddness.
Today was the fucking worst. Losing the streak was enough to ruin my day. But nope…lets just light it on fire and send it to hell.
Mulligan?
- 49 comments, 31 replies
- Comment
OMG.
Thank you for trusting us and bringing some real life stuff here that is as serious as it gets.
Your Mom - I lost my Mom to cancer. But you at least have the opportunity for some of the most precious times you may ever get to share.
Your sister? I don’t know what to say - that my heart goes out to you beyond everything - that my heart goes out to your Mom who must experience this tragic event, with all the terrible (if erroneous) implications that somehow your Mom’s illness or other relationship complications played a role in ending her child’s life.
And to your Sister who is gone, who felt she could not face whatever she thought she had to face - who did not know how, in that moment, to reach out, to give and receive sustenance and comfort and strength.
You will all need so much strength. I hope you find much of what you need in your family, your friends, here, anywhere.
Please don’t hold back and not ask, sometimes companionship will get one thru a bad night.
To your parents, I just wish I could send comfort - but at this moment they may not be able to experience that, not from anyone.
Sometimes things are just so terrible that all you can do is just endure, until the you find the path back to a place where things feel like they have a point. That path back does usually come - but the wait for it to appear, or the search for the way to any sort of belief that things can be decent and good and worthwhile can be a long and dark seeking.
Such good things as I can send are yours, and your families’.
I hope you and your parents and other family members can be there, meaningfully, for each other - I mean in the sense that you are all able to feel each other’s presence and love as meaningful and healing.
I am so terribly sorry, and I’m so terribly sorry for your mother who has to contend with the courage to tell you and your sister of this terrible thing she has to deal with, only for it to cause her to lose one of her own children. As if it wasn’t bad enough they’ll have to bury her too soon, she’ll have to bury one of them herself. This kind of stuff is almost surreal in the way that it bursts our bubbles - the way we detach ourselves from the horrors people face a daily basis, to stay discontented within our own corner life. But so quickly it is shattered. I have often wondered how my own mother dealt with the very early death of her mother (lung cancer), while my mom was home with three young kids. Anyways, rambling. There aren’t words, but I’m glad there’s a community you can share what I’m sure is a viciously complex set of feels with. And hopefully in a small way it helps.
They say grief-immersion after a major loss is 2 years. In my own life, that has felt about right. This is a very biological thing as well as an emotional one - reduced resistance to illness, poorer cardiovascular markers; flare ups of other problems; lowered energy, friendliness, ability to look forward, creativity; increased likelihood of illness; withdrawal from friends and activities; reduced performance under stress. Or just reduced performance period.
Not much you can do about the impairment except forgive yourself and others for going thru this - because wishing one was less impaired is just another source of helplessness and frustration. It doesn’t speed things up.
If there are complications like unresolved issues like anger, resentment, tragedy that loom strong, it all gets more difficult and more complicated and more fraught. Like your situation.
I fear for your Mom, who may have enormous emotional problems dealing with all kinds of feelings about her daughter when she is also trying to face the end of her own life. She may feel, simultaneously, terrible guilt, and anger, and guilt about the anger, in addition to the enormous burden she already carries. She may second guess much of her life and think it had no value.
And your Dad, who has lost his child who he believed would be there for years and decades - at the same time he is losing his wife. And what energy will he have left for anything when this is done? But I hope he can find a way.
It may just be so terrible for both of them, and they may both become horribly isolated, emotionally, in parallel but solitary darkness.
And no one can just fix any of this. There is no fix.
But you can be there for them, with them, tho you have your own limits and you must also keep something of yourself for yourself. And I hope you have lots of help. Other family, other friends, community, whoever might be willing.
And counseling for any or all of you can really really help. It will fix nothing, so often people get fed up with it. But it’s another, different way of being connected, not being alone. It offers an emotional space apart for normal obligations. Has its uses, esp if you stick it out with a counselor you connect to.
I hope you all - aggressively - use every possible resource. For anyone to say it’s going to be incredibly tough for many years - well, understatement squared.
But people and families survive even things as bad as this. And people find meaning and relationships and connections even when your brain/mind doesn’t acknowledge those are realistic possibilities in this life.
Remember that the darkness you all must now endure is - seriously - body as well as mind. Please take care of yourselves. Please lean on whatever/whoever can be leaned on, just whenever.
I’m so incredibly sorry to hear your news. I know this in no way possible helps with any of your awful day, but meh.com people, @hollboll, @shawn, @matthew or whomever, will you please send my Fuko to @studerc?
@AnnaB a kind gesture, i thank you. But i do not feel comfortable accepting this from you.
Instead, a gift i would appreciate from any of you would be to simply call your family and tell them you love them…i never truly appreciated the impact of this until today.
@studerc I wish you would, but I understand.
@studerc i am calling my 88 year old parents tomorrow and telling them i love them, but first i am going to tell them i am their youngest child - just kidding, they should still remember that, i am blessed
i hope you and your family are well, at least considering what you are all going through, peace, ciao, vous êtes les bienvenus
I am so, so sorry to hear this @studerc. I am thrilled to see you on the forums again, but I wish (as surely you do as well) that it was under happier circumstances.
You are a wonderful person and a great presence on the forum.
I’m not sure what I can do to help you, but if there’s anything I can do, please reach out here or on my email account.
Dude. I really don’t know what to say, so I apologize if these are inappropriate. They aren’t meant that way.
My mother died from brain cancer after at least a year of suffering from its symptoms (I say it this way, because she was diagnosed about 11 months before she died, but was probably feeling the cancer’s effects for several months before that). This is not meant as a “I know how you feel” cliche. (Only totally clueless assholes use that cliche.) I meant it only as, “Shit, it sucked for me and I hope it sucks less for you.”
I too missed today’s fuko and I too finally know what it feels like to not get one. This also sucks (not really, not at all in fact) but I really wish you’d missed your first one for better reasons.
On the sister side of things… wow. I have nothing for that, other than I’m so sorry.
I really have nothing to offer you, but I’ll read and reply to your posts if you want. Or not. Might be better if I just stop typing now.
@studerc i’m very sorry to hear of your mother’s cancer and the loss of you sister, memory eternal
Oh, my god, @studerc, I’m incredibly saddened by your news. There is nothing that I can say that will make it better, and I know how hard the next months will be, and I can only say that I, and the rest of your Meh friends, will be here.
I started reading this on the bus ride home and started tearing up. My heart goes out to you and your family, @studerc. Stay strong and know that we’re here for you.
I am so sorry for what you and your family are going through. Hugs from an internet stranger.
Hang in there man, sorry for your loss and news.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I lost my father to brain cancer. Losing someone to this is a terrible thing.
I can’t even begin to imagine the hurt you must be feeling to lose your sister.
Is your mom going to do surgery or chemotherapy or anything? Whatever she chooses, I hope for the best.
Oh, lord. I am so sorry. I have no words.
@studerc - I am deeply pained and words are of no help in expressing the sorrow which I feel at this moment. Please do know you and your family are in my thoughts. I was going to send you an email, but I have no fucking idea what to say - and for my verbose ass that’s saying something - and I did not want to intrude at this delicate time, so I thought I would leave this note here for you when you checked in next. I want you to know that if you or your family is in need of anything that I may provide, it is yours upon asking. You are just a short drive up I-35, and I have a lead foot. You have my personal email address, please do reach out if I may have the privilege to help you during this time in any way.
Peace.
@studerc as he said, if there is anything we can do - truly just let us know.
Love and light! We’re all here for you!!
My eyes are wet after reading this. I’m so sorry to hear.
@studerc - I don’t know you as well or personally as some of the others on here do, but you’ve always been a person who is there for everyone else on here. Without trying to sound trite, I hope you and your family can find the strength to carry through this god-awfully trying time. Nothing any of us can say will make this better, but I hope what will undoubtedly be an outpouring of support from many of us here.
Not trying to speak for everyone, but we are here to provide what distractions we can, for what little solace that may bring you.
My thoughts are with you and your family.
@studerc we don’t know each other beyond being passing acquaintances here on Meh so I quite honestly can’t think of any words that feel appropriate, everything I can think of to say feels either empty or cliche. I can’t even begin to imagine the emotional turmoil you must be experiencing right now but I am glad you felt you could share with us, a bunch of strangers on the internet. My thoughts are with your and your family. You have a rocky road ahead and I cannot even begin to fathom dealing with so much tragedy and loss all at once. If there is anything we can do for you and your family I hope you won’t hesitate to reach out.
Adding my 2 cents to the group. Take care and hug your wife, daughter and parents an extra time from us. Your sister’s roommate needs some extra support right now too.
Remind yourself and those around you that you did nothing wrong and nothing can change the past. I am having difficulty putting my thoughts to words here. I will just send good thoughts your direction.
@studerc I am so sorry for your family. My step-mother had brain cancer, too. It was very hard on my father. A couple of years later he was very sick. Too proud and lonely to tell anyone, he wanted to be with my step-mother. At the time he lived 9 hours from me. We talked often but he never let on that he was sick. He had amyloidosis. It was treated like cancer. I took care of him his last six months or so.
Not quite 18 months later my sister committed suicide. That was 6 years ago. It still hurts.
I pray that your family can get through this terrible pain and confusion. The pain of losing family eases but unfortunately doesn’t go away, at least not for me, yet. The confusion about why your sister did what she did will eat at you if you let it. Please, try not to let it.
I know you said you don’t show emotion but please don’t hold it in. Talk to someone, punch a heavy bag, scream to high heaven, please don’t hold it in.
cahuston, San Antonio
I have no words to describe how my heart hurts for you. Please take care of yourself so you can stay strong for your loved ones.
So, so sorry.
@studerc I’m so so sorry. If there is anything that you need that I can provide, let me know. You have my contact info.
On another note… How’s that baby? Getting big and less baby every day right?
/giphy dreadful
So incredibly sorry. Wishing you and your loved ones strength to get through this difficult time.
Aw, honey… (((((((((BIG HUGS)))))))))
I’m just so sorry for you loss and your mom’s health. There are no words…
A brief update for those of you following along at home.
Found my sisters will today. Quite a shock to my parents to discover that she was a closet atheist and did not want a funeral service. I’ve known for years but it was never my place to tell them. They are struggling with wanting to hold a funeral service anyway…mom hasn’t slept for two days now.
Seems that everyone is walking on egg shells…not sure if that’s normal but things seem more uncomfortable right now than sad…
Sister had a massive amount of credit card and student loan debt…that’ll be rough on the family as the co-signed everything for her. (Anybody know about programs to alleviate debts left behind fromantic loved ones??)
Spaced off today and the wife asked what I was thinking about. She was a bit shocked when I mentioned that my lost fukobukuro streak was weighing heavily on my mind. Told me that trivial things like that shouldn’t bug a normal person…well…I’m not normal
Will end by expressing my absolute love and appreciation for all of the kind words and thoughts you have given. Communities like this provide us with so much more than an avenue to buy random goods. I’m thankful for this community and the bonds I’ve developed with all of you.
P.S. noticed I didn’t use a single curse word throughout this entire comment…well better change that, too out of character.
You all fucking rock.
@studerc A brief suggestion concerning your sister and a funeral service. A service is meant to help those left behind to heal. Unless you or your parents would find it disturbing, I’d hold some sort of memorial. It would help bring closure to this particular sadness.
Yes, we already knew you were not normal, just in case there was a doubt.
@studerc
@Shrdlu
Re funeral service, agree.
Do what you need to do.
@studerc As stated above, a service is for the living, perhaps to fulfill a variety of needs: closure, healing, honoring the memory of the lost loved one. It need not be a particularly religious affair in order to meet your sister’s wishes, but balanced with the needs of the survivors.
I’m very sorry for your pain - my thoughts go out to you and your family
@studerc
Forgive me for being blunt, but your sister isn’t here to complain. And she did what may be the most selfish act that any person who is loved by another can possibly do . . . I can understand their wanting to respect their daughter’s wishes, but they need to consider their needs and the needs of others now . . . A memorial service, as suggested, would be a good middle ground and might be just enough without being too much - I’ve been to many a moving memorial that allows the living to begin to heal and not once was there a mention of a higher power in the service. In fact, some of the most moving memorials I have attended were for people that were atheists.
From experience, I’d expect such for some time.
One word: ATTORNEY - and don’t skimp, get the best shyster your family can afford. It’ll pay off in the long term. Interview several and find out if they’ve dealt with this kind of thing before and ask them in the first appointment for specifics on how they (if hired) would proceed on behalf of the family to mitigate exposure on these matters.
Choose wisely.
And fuck anyone that says or thinks that using the system to one’s advantage in this type of situation is cheating or unethical, etc. - It isn’t. If anyone even looks at your parents crosswise at coffee or at church you look back at those judgmental pricks and tell them @Pavlov said they can go fuck themselves in the ass with a buffalo dick. And twice on Sunday.
A bad shrink would say you’ve got an adjustment disorder or you’re in shock. A GOOD shrink would say that the loss of the fuku streak is a loss you’re grieving at the same time that bad shit happened. And frankly, it might be doing your soul a world of good to think about that loss right now instead of all the other shit on your plate.
If my sister died and I’d have missed the fuku I might be light years more upset about the fuku for a brief while.
But, I’d know that it would quickly pass, and when I am ready my brain and my heart will let me deal with other things.
Sometimes we protect ourselves by perseverating on somewhat more trivial things when really terrible things happen. It’ll pass. And you can always start another streak . . .
Dude, we get it, and you’re completely fucking normal in this regard. Sorry to burst your bubble and shit.
You’re not too bad yourself, fucker.
@Pavlov
@studerc
^what @Pavlov said
@Pavlov You had better be careful or people are going to start figuring out you’re a much better kind of asshole than the asshole you play on the internet.
@MrsPavlov
@MrsPavlov @Pavlov We already know. We get to see a little of how you 2 are with each other. And it’s good
/giphy and it was good
@studerc
Consulted mom who’s a CPA on this. The biggest issue here is that they co-signed the debts so they’re not inherited, co-signing means they were equally as responsible for paying those debts back as she was regardless of whatever personal arrangements there were between them regarding the debts. Without knowing a whole heck of a lot more about your family’s finances she couldn’t address specific solutions but she did present some options.
If your parents own their house they should set up a Homestead Exemption to protect the house from creditors, this is something they should do regardless of any other option to protect the home for the future. This prevents things like nursing homes and the like, for example, going after the value of the house to get paid.
With the caveat that making payments on these debts would be a hardship your parents could file for personal bankruptcy. It’s a messy process and they’ll have to involve a bankruptcy attorney but it’s basically the only way to get a debt outright forgiven.
Alternately, if your parents aren’t in a position where making payments on the debt would be a hardship and they’ve got assets they want to protect they can set up an irrevocable living trust to protect those assets. What this does is to remove the direct ownership of the assets from your parents by putting them into a trust to their kids or whoever else would inherit them while allowing your parents to still receive the income (interest, dividends) while protecting the assets from creditors.
It basically comes down to whether the goal is to protect existing wealth or to get rid of debts that can’t be afforded.
@jbartus
Was hoping someone here had this kind of knowledge.
@studerc like the previous caller, i am wanting to ship you my fuko, so you can keep that streak alive, and just get it out of your mind.
@hollboll - do it!
/veiled threat “if you do not accept my offer, 100 fuko shipments will arrive on your doorstep”
/giphy "if you do not accept"
@studerc oh yea, you owe me $5, but only currencies other than USD are accepted
@Yoda_Daenerys I’m a thinking that it’s not the fuko that @studerc is missing so much (because let’s face it, his fukus/fukos are always the crappiest of the crappy), but the breaking of his streak. And even if Meh were to reinstate his streak, that silly *asterisk would be staring at him for all eternity. It haunted Roger Maris (who’s Roger Maris?) and I wouldn’t want it to haunt @studerc. There are always new streaks to be made.
@studerc, you and your family are in my prayers. God bless.
@studerc I wouldn’t feel too badly about obsessing over the fukuboro. In times of great stress it’s normal for your mind to try to find something else to focus on. If gives your mind and heart something mundane to chew on for a break from the personal tragedy.
i know things aren’t better today. I know you all go back and forth between numbness, grief, stabbing pain, fatigue.
And it will be that way for a while.
…
Regarding the debt: your parents are the co-signers on her student loans and their debts? Are the student loans really really high $?
I think you all may need to talk to serious experts about this. Internet people as backup resources only.
Perhaps a student loan specialist who acts on behalf on the borrowers. Student loans have special provisions.
About the the other debts, also various specialists. Do you have a family attorney or a relative or friend who is an attorney? If so, first stop when you are ready. Possibly not for several weeks. But don’t wait forever.
And consider who ought to go, at least to an early consultation. Possibly not your Mom, unless she wants to. Possibly not your Dad either. Cousins, uncles, siblings, very close friends, who are in an emotional place to present facts and listen? Decisions can be made later.
…
This complication of the debts just makes it all so much worse. The emotional stuff, the sense of being on the brink of losing everything; And the complicated feelings about what happened, and the inevitable and unstoppable, yet pointless, “Why?” and “How could?”
I believe you all are strong. And if you all are, and the guts and resilience and connections and community can be called when needed; well, I believe those things can be called.
All our thoughts…
Regarding your sister: nothing that anyone here thinks matters. She was what she was; no undoing her choice.
Surely someone choosing to take his/her own life when that person is loved is about as incredibly, utterly selfish a decision as there is. And it often just about destroys everyone who ever cared for that person.
But in case this helps some of you come to a state of peace or forgiveness or whatever someday:
Persons who are in that state of thinking of ending their lives, or near to that state, are often in a headspace that is locked-down, tunnel vision. The person can lose the ability to see any other solution, or option, or have awareness outside their own black box; can actually come to believe the world is better off without them: can get to a place where the person can’t think, feel, comprehend anything else. And the idea of a “end it all” solution to a person in that state can become all s/he can think about.
I will never know your sister, and how any of that might apply to her or not. Some people in that state are obviously distressed, others not. Some selfish, others generous. Some life-of-the-party, others sociable, others withdrawn. Some dramatic and histrionic, others silent and stoic.
There’s no simple pattern and no single reason. But someday, perhaps, you can all be at peace with her devastating and destructive choice. For me, if I were anywhere near a situation like yours, that might be the hardest hurdle of all. It would be very raw, and would cost me some time.
@f00l you’re not as dumb as your username might lead some to believe
I’m really bad at saying Things in these situations, because I search through my Closet of Things to Say and… nothing fits anymore? I guess (or I hope?) the Things are ultimately noise, and the signal is just the voice. The signal is just — somebody else is here who cares, and who is terribly sorry to hear of your loss and what you’re going through. So, I suppose that should just be my noise as well. Really very sorry, and I think you know how to reach me if you’re ever looking for someone to listen but not say many Things.
@brhfl well said
I’m very sorry for both the news you are digesting regarding your Mom and the reality you are facing about your sister. I can’t stop thinking about you and your family, my heart goes out to all of you.
Wow. Just wow. There are never quite words that express one’s sympathy, sorrow, or compassion to the degree with which we feel them in our hearts. It’s quite obvious, many of us who have been here for quite some time truly care about and appreciate you. You and your family are in my thoughts and (wonky agnostic kinda) prayers. Stay strong, or at the very least, come back to us when you’re not feeling so strong. Much
to you friend and if it’s any consolation, I didn’t land a fucking Fuko either and I had the displeasure of trying all three times.
Just saw this, don’t even know what to say @studerc. My heart goes out to you and your family. Missed the fuko as well, but I feel much worse that you missed it.
I wish you strength in family.
I know you do not know me, but I just saw your post. I am truly sorry and will say prayers for you and your family (if that is appropiate) I am at a loss.
This thread makes me feel empty inside.
Jesus fucking Christ, @Studerc. I am so sorry for your loss. If you need anything, please don’t hesitate to let me know.
I don’t even know what else to say, except that life is a real bitch sometimes.
/giphy hugs
@studerc
We’re all still here thinking about you and your family, if/when you feel like coming around, and have the mood and energy for it.
Update 2:
Had a small service yesterday for my sister. After some back and forth with my parents I convinced them that they should absolutely hold a service even if it didn’t involve a full Catholic ceremony. There was a great turn out but still a significant amount of shock from the suddenness of it all.
Overall the family appears to be holding up well emotionally. I had to return to teaching today and it was easily the roughest day I’ve ever taught. I’m now out of personal days for the school year which sucks a bit financially…but whatever, in the past.
Mom’s new treat plan plan starts in a few weeks and the doctors are very optimistic that it will yield some great results. Dr. went so far to say that their initial reading of the scans and tests may have been a bit preemptive and things MAY lead to significant extension of life…from 2 years to 15+. This good news however was a difficult pill to swallow in that my sister likely would still be alive had this information been known…yeeeaaa.
Parents hired an attorney to look deeper into her finances and payment strategies for her loan debts. The debt will be slightly curved by selling off some of her possessions which will ease that burden for a decent chunk of time. Enough time to get the affairs in order at the least.
On a more personal note, my wife, Lottie, and myself are starting to get back into the swing of things. Trying to get a sense of normal after a whirlwind few days. Wife told me to stay away from the fuko threads in hopes that I don’t bring up negative memories of missing out. Little does she know that those threads typically show how much people don’t actually miss out on. Not to mention the fact that after 11 I never got one of the fukobukuros of high value anyway.
Again, I do want to thank all of you again for your kind words, thoughts, and prayers. They do not go unnoticed and have meant the world to me and my family. The fact of the matter is sometimes we experience some pretty fucked up moments in our life and sometimes we just have to get the fuck over it and move forward.
What a stellar fucking community.
@studerc glad to see you are in a pretty good state of mind
I am late reading this thread… Way too much for your family to deal with at one time… I am so sorry for what is happening in your family and wish you all strength.
Bankruptcy of student loans - possible provided your parents’ finances are grim but it is hard (have to pass the Bruner test in some states and something only a bit less rigid in others), otherwise they are out of luck with respect to getting out of them (as someone else said, look into how they can protect their assets). I know a lot about that having looked into it with my own finances due to 3 major cancers (email me at my user name yahoo if you want some urls, more info, some pdfs about the student loan issue). If you are very, very lucky only your mom signed them. Then with her cancer, if she is applying for social security disability that then automatically cancels them if she gets SSD (not sure if taxes are due when they are canceled due to disability, but if they are due then taxes are due - she can get out of that provided she can show hardship). One tactic might be to see if the cosigning can be transferred over just to her if it is your dad who signed (keeping the cancer information out of it, so would need to try that before doing anything else). Do not let them default - the government can (and does) take, without a court case, 25% of wages and social security regardless of what level of poverty that then throws people into…
Suicide in the family: We thought my brother had committed suicide at 26. Turns out he was murdered by his wife, but we didn’t know that until a bit more than 10 years later. One of the things my sisters. mom and I concluded is that due to how he died (we had this conversation several years after his death, before we found out it was murder) we found we now had to reject suicide as a choice in the same way we had to reject every other choice we weren’t picking. By him doing this and us having to come to terms with how he died, it somehow broke a barrier concerning suicide. We were pretty pissed at him over this. While you and your family may not experience this, it is, apparently, pretty common.
Suicide is a hard death to come to terms with, research says one of the hardest. I found around 6 mo after my brother died that is when I really fell apart - had trouble getting things done, didn’t laugh for months… and of course grief takes its own path for each person. For me (and at least my mom and one of my sisters) I found that the periods of intense grief finally started to not last as long and were further and further apart over the months although the intensity didn’t decrease all that much. Now, many years later, I can still cry about my brother (and dad) if I think about their deaths in just the right way and still have that momentary flash of grief. It does get easier over time - but it takes time. Lots of time. For me about 2 years.
Try not to get caught up in the “what if’s”. 20/20 hindsight is so much clearer than when you are looking into a crystal ball trying to see the future. My brother’s death influenced my father as he committed assisted suicide. As someone with a cancer with no cure I have found that both of their deaths (despite that we later learned my brother was murdered, the “damage” was already done as we struggled to come to accept how he died - we had to change how we thought about it, and be aware that you may not get the same kind of support for your sister dying from suicide rather than, say a in car accident - all the crap and judgement that surrounds suicide) create struggles in me when things get rough, especially when I was homeless, felt like crap with chemo, look at my finances and know there isn’t enough money… (have her fill in the blank with whatever causes the most stress at the time). Your mom, in particular, may struggle with that if her treatment does not go as intended. I know one thing dad said was he wanted to die before his medical issues bankrupted the family, he wouldn’t get dental care, etc. for the same reason - all of which upset the rest of us. We didn’t care. Life>money.
Cancer: Make sure your mom gets a second opinion for treatment from one of the national cancer institute designated cancer centers if she isn’t already using one. I use MD Anderson Cancer center and in the end decided to have them direct my treatment, although I had it done locally (I live about 450 miles from them) and go there periodically for check ups. Several studies have documented that on average, outcomes are better when an NCI comprehensive cancer center is involved.
The hospital, oncologist or american cancer society or many online organizations (some might be for her kind of cancer), can hook her up someone who has had that kind of cancer if she wanted to talk with someone about it. A cancer diagnosis, especially one with no cure (as one of mine is) is qualitatively different than the potentially curable ones. It is an emotional earthquake and can be a (said only sort of jokingly) a psychiatric emergency - not only for her but for all of you. With breast cancer (I have had it on both sides) I think it took me 4 years before I didn’t think about it every single day, often multiple times. My incurable lymphoma I am not there yet and it has been a bit over 5 years. I think it took me about 18 mo to come to terms with the incurable part. She may try to stay strong for you and your family and you guys for her. Sometimes what everyone needs is a good cry together. And there will be some days she won’t want to think about it. Actually many of us with incurable cancers have found that during treatment we are distracted by all of that and it isn’t until after the initial chemo is done that we really fall apart emotionally over all of this (well beside the initial panic, despair, stress, fear…). The cancer gig sucks.
Your dad (and the rest of you) are going to need your own support system to deal with emotions that you don’t want to stress out your mom about (although I know I really worried about my kid when I was in the middle of two major cancers in one year and chemo into the next one) and often put her first when all I really wanted to do was curl up in a ball and cry. I also tried to hide my fears from her. Not saying your mom will do this, but it is, apparently a common “mom” response. Try not to take that away from her if that is what is holding her together. If her friends ask how they can help - give them tasks as otherwise most of them will do nothing as they don’t know what to do - for example: bring meals, clean, laundry, do the grocery shopping, drive her chemo, just come over and talk if she isn’t too tired, take her on (energy and walking easy) outings to get her out of the house and to distract her…etc. Treasure the people who hang in there after the first couple of weeks. Some people will stay away because they don’t know what to say or do, then they feel embarrassed because they have stayed away and won’t initiate contact. Unfortunately if she (or you guys) value the friendship she/you guys will need to initiate contact with that person (happens over death too - especially suicide so in some respects your family has a double hit with this). It is worth making the effort as hurt as you/she might be. Once those folks get over the awkwardness of their avoidance behavior they can often be a real support - especially if you give them practical things to do initially (then they usually can figure out how to fit in with the current situation once they get over that hump - yeah I know shouldn’t be that way).
If there is any way she can get a shingles vaccination (if she had chicken pox) prior to chemo (if there is enough time for it to have time to work that is) I can tell you for sure she does not want to get shingles in the middle of chemo - that happened to me and that pain is exquisite. Also if she gets neulasta shots for low counts that causes incredible bone pain for several days (including in the breast bone - no that is not a heart attack - wish someone had told me that) that surprisingly extended release Claritin D can mostly prevent (day before the shot you take one pill in the morning, one 12 hours later, repeat the day of the shot, repeat the day after). Cancer patients often can give her lots of tips and she may feel more comfortable discussing some things with people who have/have had her kind or a similar cancer than with her family because they know first hand the cancer crap.
I am so sorry your family is going through this… life can be hard and really unfair at times.
@Kidsandliz
i know that was written for @studerc. but it is, and i suspect will be, useful to me also. so thanks for taking the energy to do it.
when my Mom had terminal cancer, she was fortunate in some ways - her best friends - she had a lot of friends - mostly did not have jobs. and they just fucking stepped up. they knew what to do. a Mom thing i guess. and they were fearless about figuring out what she or we might need and not know we needed; or might not be willing to ask for.
they just did it. drove my Mom back and forth to treatment. got her out every single day she was up to it, even if just for a short walk. made sure the fridge was stocked, and a buncha cooked meals were in the freezer. took an inventory of the yard and houseplants (Mom was a gardener), and worked out a care schedule for it, and worked out who would help Mom when with the gardening she wanted done but didn’t feel like doing. made book runs and prescription runs. called. talked about stuff other than being sick.
after Mom was gone, Dad told me he was in awe of her friends; but they weren’t done. they made sure he wasn’t isolated. they just dragged him out to stuff where he wouldn’t feel like the 5th wheel. and they didn’t do too much. they just somehow knew. where do you go to learn that? and they didn’t try to “find someone for him”. they were just stellar friends.
i think in part it helped them too - not just in the bonding, and doing that sort of genuine good - but number of them were at the stage where the kids had gotten married or moved to another part of the country.
so it worked out for all of us i guess. i know it worked amazingly for Mom and Dad.
@Kidsandliz, i knew from what you’ve posted here that your life has been pretty tough. but your brother! and you losing him, and thinking he had chosen to end it - and then 10 years later finding out he was murdered! i cannot imagine the emotional cost.
i guess the best of us just have, or grow into, the ability to face the worse of it without being corrupted, or numbed - and not losing the capacity to still reach for the best things can be along the way.
Thank you.
@studerc
shingles
For my Dad, the worst things in his life have been losing my Mom, losing his parents, losing his much much older brother, some stuff during wars - and having shingles. the pain caused by shingles is insane; i have heard that trad painkillers don’t really work that well. if someone get shingles when they are elderly or otherwise frail, the physical and emotional cost of living with it can knock someone back so deeply that they don’t fully recover, ever, after it is done.
if someone gets the shingles immunization, there is a chance they can still get shingles, but the case will supposedly not be nearly as severe.
shingles shots can be given without prescription to anyone over a certain age. 55? 60? you just walk into a drugstore that does shots. altho in your Mom’s case, don’t do that - coordinate with her oncologist or whoever. if someone is younger, a prescription will be required.
@f00l Sorry, I’ll wade in here re shingles vaccine. The current one is about 50% effective for people >50 and gets less effective for older people. Not only that, it wears off after 5 years. (I got mine 5 years ago.) Yes, I know, we were told it’s good for a lifetime and ‘most’ people benefit from it. It isn’t. However there is a new one in clinical trials which is >96% effective for everyone, and it truly is good for a lifetime. Glaxo Smith Kline is expected to put it on the market possibly next year. One of my doctors told me about it. @studerc may want to talk about this with his mom. I know this is a very small thing to worry about for a heartsick family, but if the new vaccine is a choice, it’s worth pursuing. http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/blog/phase-3-trial-recombinant-shingles-vaccine-shows-promise-older-adults
@OldCatLady You wouldn’t happen to know if it is live vaccine or not? Often cancer patients can’t have live ones (I can’t). I had heard about how much better the new vaccination was. What I wonder is if you can get the vaccine after you have had shingles (And how long having had shingles protects you before you are at risk again) since you can get shingles more than once. I forgot to ask my oncologist that when I was there a couple of weeks ago.
@f00l Also with shingles getting the antiviral within the first 48 hours of coming down with shingles tends to also decrease the severity and length of time you have it along with decreasing the odds of pain, etc. after it has healed. Unfortunately I missed that because at first they thought it was a port problem (well until the rash showed up and so they wasted time investigating that first). I had pain for around 6 mo, and still have itching and partial numbness 5 years later.
@f00l Your mom was lucky. I drove my own sorry self to chemo and then often had to go from chemo to work (I had to work full time through chemo as I couldn’t afford to take unpaid time off and had no sick days). My kid, in high school, regressed and became less helpful rather than more (of course I had 2 cancers in one year and dealt with chemo for 18 mo and she was panicked about only having one parent and that parent was sick; I had had gone through this earlier with the other cancer when she was in 4th grade and so that I had cancer again was really tough on her), ended up having very little help from anyone. Nice she had such great friends to help as that would have made a huge difference. I occasionally had some help but for the most part didn’t. I think people figured since I was working it wasn’t as bad as it was.
@Kidsandliz
i knew someone who had shingles in, i think, her thirties? no idea what triggered it. there was no vaccine then. she has gotten the current vaccine every 5 years i think, since it became available. she is not into being denied that sort of thing. i think she told me that you could talk with your physician about getting the current vaccine starting about a year after an occurrence? and then you could get re-do’s, as long as you were willing to be an enormous PITA non-stop about it. i am not certain.
but she doesn’t have cancer. and this is the current vaccine, not the new one.
(hearsay hearsay hearsay)
@Kidsandliz
yeah, Mom was in a lucky place, socially and financially, and in her marriage and support system.
i have known of people with cancer who, as you, dragged themselves thru treatment, jobs, family, parenting, often with little understanding from others, co-workers having only the barest understanding; heard about one - a teacher - who just kept going until weeks before she died. what really bothers me most, thinking about it, was the isolation. a fellow teacher said that no-one really understood, in part, because the teacher who was ill was so tired, she just didn’t have the energy to talk about it.
so you go on because you just do.
@Kidsandliz The study description doesn’t mean much to me. 'The vaccine contains varicella zoster virus (non-live) with a subunit antigen system. The vaccine, known as HZ/su combines glycoprotein E, a protein found on the virus that causes shingles, with an adjuvant system, known as AS01B to enhance the immunological response. ’ Searching for simpler descriptions just gives me ‘general public’ press releases. PubMed says the phase 3 trial for patients 70+ has been completed but nothing about market. https://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01165229
@studerc I see there is flooding in your area. Are you guys okay? Geez, this is NOT what you need added to everything else. Worrying about you.
@Barney Paying attention to the middle of nowhere Iowa, I see.
Yea…things have been pretty terrible here. In Waverly we got lucky and lots of preemptive measures taken after the devastating flood in 08 have paid off for significant parts of town. We got about 6 inches of water in our basement which was insanely bizarre as we are out of the flood plain. The water destroyed all of our carpeting and ill have to rip out chunks of drywall that the water wicked up. All in all probably about $1,500 in damages. It sucks and is financially devastating to our already weak financial state. Still though…many others are far worse off than we are.
Many of the surrounding towns lost major chunks of business and residential neighborhoods. Wife and i dropped off Lottie with her grandparents so we could dedicate our time towards sandbagging and helping people clean out destroyed stuff. Then i spent most of the nights ripping out carpet, padding, and drywall. Again…it sucks but it has done wonders of distracting me from family stuff.
When it rains…it pours…literally i suppose.
Perhaps it was good that i missed the fuko…flood probably would have taken it away
Fucking sucks.
@studerc Hey, I’m glad to hear from you. Six inches of water in the basement sounds familiar. We’ve had a lot of rain here in the middle of nowhere Kansas and Mom’s sump pump broke and I didn’t discover it until just about six inches of rain accumulated in her basement.
I feel your pain. Mom’s basement carpeting, her paneling and stuff of Grandma’s, Mom’s, and mine was destroyed. AND we had a shortage of replacement sump pumps in our area. I finally found a plumber who had one. Hand pumping a basement is no fun.
Guess I’m going to rent one of those big dumpster thingies and everything will go to the dump. -sigh-
I’ll be thinking of you as I haul and pitch.
I just read about your loss and was in shock that both your sister and mom in one day. I am very sorry for your loss but happy to hear your mom has many more years than expected. I feel awful for you and have tears in my eyes.
Everything has been said to you from everyone here, me I am just speechless, anytime someone thinks they are having a bad day, they should read this and think before they speak.
God Bless, Stay strong and remember, this community is here for you.
I am exhausted, I am waiting for these weekend to have a good sleep
@studerc
I hope your family is able to be together today. I suspect many of us will think about you and your family in stray moments.
Wow. After reading this, I will not complain or bitch again that I.Don’t have thanksgiving this year. (Letting the ex have the boy, the man is Ruth family and it hit me hard as a semi the other day how I’ve lost that sense of family and together for holidays, no matter how dysfunctional)
I will instead count the good. And think of you and yours and send you good thoughts
@studerc - just letting you know I am thinking of your family and hope that your mom is doing OK with chemo. I know nothing we can say or do will remove the pain of what your family is going through… but I just wanted you to know that I am thinking of you and your family and wishing you the best that can be under the circumstances.
Thinking about your family and holidays coming. I know that will be harder than hard… How is your mom doing with her chemo? How are you doing?