Shoddy Goods 002: WTemuF
20I’m Jason Toon and this is Shoddy Goods, a newsletter from Meh about the stuff people buy, sell, and make. Ever wondered “what’s the deal with Temu?” Good question.
“If I could talk to Congress, I’d tell them to forget about Tiktok. Temu is gathering much more sensitive data.”
I’d called a friend of mine to get his thoughts on how enshittification plays out in ecommerce. The conversation took some turns. And we never even got around to Temu’s body-horror nightmare ads for bondage-like “face exercisers” and trypophobia-inducing foot pads.
I’ve never seen the Saw movies but now I feel like I get the gist.
This friend is an ecommerce executive I’ve known for years. Online marketplaces are his thing. He’s set up, run, and consulted for a bunch of them on several different continents. He’s still deeply involved in the industry, which is why I’m not naming him in this piece. He knows his stuff.
He hadn’t heard the term “enshittification”. It was coined by author and activist Cory Doctorow to explain why all your favorite apps and websites seem to suck harder every day until you finally stop using them. As Doctorow put it: “first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.” You can trace the same arc for everything from Facebook to Etsy to Snapchat.
Enshittification by any other name would smell as bad
But if the word itself is unfamiliar, this friend of mine recognizes the process all too well. Right now, he says, big marketplaces like Amazon and eBay are focused on squeezing sellers to drive prices down and offer fast, cheap shipping. For those of you following at home, that would be Doctorow’s next-to-last stage of enshittification: the platforms turning against their vendors.
It’s been accelerated by the impossibly low prices and shipping charges of Chinese competitors like Temu and Shein. I asked him if Temu et al. could possibly stay in business with a model where they’re clearly losing buttloads of money - $30 per order, according to a report on Wired last year.
“Oh, that’s not their goal,” he says. “Temu doesn’t plan to make money with retail, nor have they, ever. It’s all about customer acquisition. They want the data.”
OK, sure, they’d hardly be the first online platform to lose gobs of cash harvesting data. What’s the big deal? Two things, my source says.
First, what could Temu be planning to do with that data that’s worth $30 per order? Maybe nothing more alarming than selling it to the usual third parties, or using it for, say, their own AI-generated micro-targeted Tiktok flash sales. “These sellers have an endless ability to produce and ship, whether it’s one million units or one,” my source says.
But… we don’t really know. Temu’s losing money on an unprecedented scale, to where it’s hard to see any future data play paying off - at least, in strictly financial terms. And that brings us to the murky question of what influence the Chinese government has over Temu.
What Greek-letter level of masculinity is this? I can’t keep up anymore.
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not following you
My former colleague isn’t the only one raising the question. A report released in May by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute details how Temu’s parent company, PDD Holdings, has a data-sharing agreement with People’s Data, the data arm of the Chinese Communist Party’s state-owned newspaper, People’s Daily.
Exactly what data is shared isn’t publicly known. But we do know that the state-owned People’s Data’s remit includes monitoring public opinion. Which makes it an unsettling partner for an ecommerce app that can access your social media photos, posts, and messages.
Earlier this month, Arkansas Attorney General Tim Griffin called Temu “a data-theft business” that is “functionally malware and spyware” in a lawsuit filed against PDD Holdings. Griffin’s complaint cited everything from Temu gaining access to users’ texts, calendars, and wifi and Bluetooth networks, to misleading trade practices like false discount pricing and counterfeit goods.
Yes, of course, when politicians do things, politics are involved. But you don’t have to be a frothing Sinophobe to be skeptical that there’s such a thing as a Chinese company that’s totally independent of home office in Beijing.
Billionaire Alibaba founder Jack Ma found that out the hard way when he was mildly critical of some Chinese state enterprises. The Chinese government cancelled his company’s IPO and Ma, a fixture of the international conference circuit, disappeared from public view for several months.
After the Temupocalypse
But OK, let’s say it’s the best-case scenario. All those concerns are just New Cold War paranoia. Temu turns out to be the Pets.com of the mid-2020s, just a silly misguided ecommerce folly that collapses under the weight of its staggering losses, only with more lead in its products. Indeed, my source thinks it’s more likely than not that the Temu (and Shein etc.) bubble will burst before too much longer. They’re already losing users and market share in South Korea.
The second, maybe even bigger thing he’s worried about is what Temu will leave behind after it passes its peak. He’s seen the effects before with one-time discount sensations like AliExpress and Wish. “I call them wave marketplaces,” he says. “They come in, flood everything, then go away - but suck everything out to sea with them.” Temu and Shein are doing it on a vastly bigger scale.
What that means is that even if Amazon stops feeling the pressure of Temu’s low prices, they’re never going back to their old arrangements with sellers. As for the rest of us, the next ecommerce race to the bottom will demand even lower environmental, labor, and quality standards.
Local supply chains for entire retail categories could be driven out of business, making whole national economies vulnerable to supply disruptions and shortages. When nobody else can make a profit selling product X because of Temu’s low prices, eventually Temu will be the only place to buy product X. Are we OK with them having that much power?
“Honestly, it should be raising alarm bells,” my friend says.
And this brings us back to enshittification. Cory Doctorow nailed the process by which online services make their customer experiences worse to ultimately profit their shareholders.
But what happens when a marketplace’s customer experience is a trivial expense, a loss leader? What happens when the choice for other retailers is to enshittify or die?
For as long as Temu is willing to lose money, they could more or less preserve their own customer experience while enshittifying the rest of ecommerce. Any marketplace that survived would get more ruthless, more focused on the short-term squeeze for every penny from customers and suppliers rather than longer-term quality, and even less socially responsible.
And personally, I find that more disturbing than a tray full of teeth.
A note from Jason: my unnamed source in this story has never worked for Meh’s parent company Mercatalyst or, as far as either of us know, any company that has done business with Mercatalyst.
- 25 comments, 29 replies
- Comment
/showme clowns brandishing wieners
Something went terribly wrong. Please try again.
@lonocat Ugh this RTE editor drives me crazy sometimes.
/showme wieners being brandished by clowns
@mediocrebot Oh that is horrifying on multiple levels, from multiple angles.
@mediocrebot I’m relieved that the AI has strong constraints on Hotdog/Not Hotdog, especially in this particular instance.
@mediocrebot @pakopako At least the finger count is improving.
I was favorably impressed by one of the presenter chefs on Sorted Food when he explicitly called out Temu’s ultralow prices as evidence that workers producing the goods were being exploited. Counterpoint: There are places in much of Asia where subsistence conditions and wages are so meager as to beggar the imagination, and the people there often regard the exploitative wages as generous by their standards. The problem is not simple, and capitalism is designed to make it worse. The bigger problem is that all systems can be corrupted, and history demonstrates that we have never been free of the unscrupulous people who will do the corrupting.
This is good stuff. For a moment, I enjoyed reading something I received in an email again…
Like it’s 1993 again…!
The newsletter is pretty much unreadable on my phone, fwiw. The font is itty-bitty and I can only zoom in so far.
@mikey I agree it was difficult to read, but it really was a good newsletter. I knew Temu was an odd company that advertises all over the web, but I’ve never bought anything from…
@mikey had to turn my phone sideways, but I did notice the same. I think it was the big pictures.
@mikey Here’s what a normal email looks like:
And here’s the newsletter:
@mikey @daveinwarsh @Cerridwyn Just this issue, or all of them so far? I’m thinking it’s the wider images we used this time.
@Cerridwyn @dave @daveinwarsh I didn’t notice it with 001 because I read it on my desktop with my giant-ass screen but opening it up on my phone, it’s still pretty tiny.
@dave @daveinwarsh @mikey I don’t remember the first ones being this bad. And the other one that wasn’t Mikey that just posted when I made it bigger it didn’t blur so bad. But that was his image not yours
@Cerridwyn @dave @daveinwarsh @mikey
On my iPhone in Outlook it was fine, just like any other email.
@Cerridwyn @dave @mikey Just this newsletter I think…
@mikey I agree. I had trouble reading on my laptop a well in Gmail. The text was wider than the Gmail window. And horizontal scroll bar is at the bottom of the page. I solved the issue by creating a draft reply, that put the scroll bar in the window and I was able to scroll as I read. Still annoying but at least readable.
And the content was really good.
I never thought of temu as anything but wish.com with a super bowl ad budget. I thought their items must be super shitty, but I have seen some known brand things advertised there.
Never really thought of what nefarious purposes might be behind their behavior. And now I also wonder how much our data is actually worth. It seems like it may be a lot more than I thought.
@djslack I can say that the quality of the items at Temu is measurably higher than what Wish is pimping, though there are still some very definite duds. Delivery speeds are FAR less random as well, with a fair portion of the stuff sourcing from warehouses in the US. If I had to rank Meh, Wish, and Temu, then Temu would be in the middle and Wish a distant last. It’s not a fair comparison, of course, because Meh and Temu don’t have all that much overlap. On the other hand, if Meh goes on another Hell+Bowell binge, that ordering could swap. (This Is A Hint.)
Actually got the newsletter in my email and it’s totally unreadable sorry guys the font looks like it’s about a two-point and it doesn’t scale if you try to make the page bigger so I don’t know what you want to do with it but it’s not viewable or readable as it was sent
@Cerridwyn and what is posted here just gets blurry when you make it bigger. Someone didn’t do very good with the Imaging
@Cerridwyn This may be device-dependent. On my Pixel 7 Pro, I can embiggen without loss of detail if the source image was high res to begin with. If it was never more than a thumbnail, nothing will help. Embiggening text makes a lot of scrolling necessary in portrait mode, less in landscape.
@Cerridwyn @werehatrack a perfectly cromulent statement
@Cerridwyn I read it on my Yahoo! (!!) mail app on iPhone just fine. I tried to access via the iOS mail app and yeah it rendered really small font.
What is the plastic thing placed over the beard??
@EdR my guess is a trimming template, but if you add a plastic bag it becomes a torture device
@djslack @EdR a compact, plastic torture device. Like a speculum for your facial hair.
Meh are you trying to get my data by putting out this newsletter? It was quite the interesting read but that’s time I will never get back!
leave my TEMU alone… we all know its a loss leader for their parent company but dang it who isnt???If youve never bought from them…dont fear the reaper. Its got everything…cheap! same stuff you pay $$ for in the gift shops. NOT as fun as WOOT tho and yep Amazons a little faster.
@samnsara I’ve gotten a lot of good stuff for free on the app by feeding fish and watering plants in these sort-of games they have. LMK if you want an invite to try it. You can get the stuff without buying anything, but purchases speed things up.
Enshittification is now my favorite word. Thank you.
Great article. Keep em coming.
so, where do I get these pseudo-bondage STFU devices for my co-workers??
Please use a larger font for mobile phones.
Let’s talk about the article’s subject, not the font. (Go home and use your laptop!) Anyway, I felt the same way about Amazon having worked 25 years in brick & mortar retail. Drive them out of business, put those employees on the street, then raise the prices. The vendors have no choice but to cave. In order to make money and stay in business something has to give: Quality, employee wages, healthcare, etc. But today’s consumer doesn’t care, they want it cheap and fast. They don’t care about child and forced labor in China. Will we ever wake up?
@tandkfanley I watched a documentary years ago about Walmart and how desperate sellers were to get them to carry their products, so that’s nothing new.
Awesome newsletter - I’m looking forward to the next one!
POPSOCKETS! ROAD ROCKETS! SONNY CROCKETT! AWESOME!
I have 12 units of those teeth. I… have my reasons…
@scorpyo72 A dozen is Ok. But if you had a Dozen Dozen, that would just be Gross.
@scorpyo72 I’m gonna need to know more about these teeth. Are they connected? What does one do with them?
@lisagd they are individually separate and full tooth shape. You can use them to create anatomically accurate special fx pieces.
@scorpyo72 Thanks.
In love with these articles, and want to know more. However, it gives getting high, taking a crap, and reading the dr bronner’s bottle.
I’m just spitballing here… But a soapbox online is a money pit isn’t it?
Same with a real life physical soapbox (e.g. Speakers Corner in London) which has a certain degree of cost to maintain and keep clean, leaving moderation to the masses (“you’re taking too much time/when is it my turn”). Internet discussion forums reserve space that could be spent on advertisement machines… Thus everyone who owns one wants to monetize the space (by selling ads). Yes, even stores have ads nudging you to buy more. But places of discussion/ranting really have less and less purpose in this odd possibly overcrowded dystopia where more words are added to the new speak dictionary, yet it gets thinner and thinner.
I find it odd, refreshing, and also a little worrisome that there’s a Speaker’s Square (of sorts) blooming in a shopping center. But it does keep my spirits up whenever I pass by, and I assume it does for others. And aren’t happier people happier to shop?
I avoided that hellish place because I never saw a single thing I wanted, but uts good to be vindicated for that
I’ve fallen under the Temu spell. I shop on the site all the time. Most things I get aren’t bad. In fact some are pretty cool. But, truthfully, I never spend more than $30-40 an order. And when I did buy something that was $42 and it broke within a week, they refunded me and said keep the item. Another time the delivery time was 9 days past the expected and they refunded my package and said when I get it just keep it. So, my data would just be a little old lady buying gadgets and socks. Anything else, if I didn’t want anyone to know it, I wouldn’t put it on social media to begin with.
Absolutely fantastic read! Love Meh and love you Jason! - Jenna in St. Louis
Deeply unsettling. Great read. Yikessssss.
I will note that the cephalopodic nature of the beast increases daily; items ordered from Temu now sometimes get fulfilled and delivered by Amazon.
The Borg is real, and you have already been assimilated.
oh come on…leave my temu alone. I am a loyal customer and so far they have delivered all they promise 100%…and who isnt mining data these days?