Save Geoffrey! (Need Some Advice/Support)
21So I made a thing:
https://shirt.woot.com/derby/entry/108582/toys-were-us
Woot already told me it’s C&D fodder (see the thread) and even if it wins it won’t be able to be run as a daily. Yet, it can be considered for a side sale next Monday. Hmmm.
Any legal-minded folk around here have any input? I understand it’s entirely woot’s decision but if there’s grounds/precedent/whatever, and perhaps with additional support in the entry thread maybe they’ll reconsider the decision?
I’m probably grasping at straws here, but any advice or support you’re willing to make for in the shirt thread (above) would be very much appreciated. I’ve never been in this position before. Thanks team. 
- 21 comments, 44 replies
- Comment
Aaaawwww I
it. You did an A-meh-z-job!
I can’t help you with the legal stuff but that’s a great shirt! Best of luck!!
I do agree it’s a tough and unprecedented position, but if I have to guess, it’s preemptive damage control. While they’re willing to take the chance of getting a C&D, they’re not daily-prize willing to. Taking it on as an EC minimize their potential economic risk.
I am not anywhere close to a lawyer but although the company went bankrupt I think someone technically still owns the copyright and if they wanted could still send a C&D or sue.
I am not a lawyer, but in this article, the bankrupt Toys R Us mentions they are going to auction off the rights to the mascot. Someone will end up owning the rights to Geoffrey, and that person could sue. So Woot is probably right.
Might I suggest reconfiguring the use of the giraffe? You can’t get away with showing his face, but you probably could do something clever, like a silhouette of a sad giraffe walking away…there has to be some way of not blatantly using the character but still getting the message across.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/15/17355928/toys-r-us-domain-names
@wishlish @acraigl and whoever buys the rights, will have just paid actual money, so they’ll be more likely to protect their investment with C&D.
@ACraigL @kevlar51 Bingo. Someone who buys the logo is going to do that with an eye for re-associating the brand with their business.
+1
This makes me sad. I drive by Toys R Us every day. They ripped the name off the building, but left their old trailer sitting facing the street.
Parody is protected under copyright and trademark law. Of course the company can choose to err on the side of caution, but it seems to me (Not a lawyer) that it fits.
https://corporate.findlaw.com/intellectual-property/parody-use-of-trademarks.html
@moondrake The argument would be that this really isn’t parody. If you were doing a political cartoon about Trump, say, Trumps R Us, you’d be protected. This is selling a shirt with the mascot and the fonts, and isn’t parody.
@moondrake @wishlish Wait, it was Trump’s fault we lost TRU? Man, that guy…
@moondrake OTOH, saying parody/fair use wouldn’t stand up well in court. Claiming such is an acknowledgement that you knew you were using someone else’s intellectual property already.
@moondrake @therealjrn It’s a whole bunch of people’s fault, but honestly, after reading tons of articles about why TRU fell apart, my gut feeling is that we didn’t really need TRU anymore in society. Other retail avenues replaced it, and the idea of one central place for all the toys no longer appeals. Although buying exclusive Marvel action figures at Walgreens still feels weird.
@wishlish Parody doesn’t have to be political. That’s how Honest Trailers and CinemaSins are able to show 10-20 minutes of copyrighted films on You Tube.
@narfcake That’s kind of the point of fair use. You aren’t denying the use, you are claiming the allowance for parody under copyright/trademark law. The problem is that fair use is like pornography. There’s no black line, it’s judicial discretion. So even though parody is protected, there is still risk involved.
@moondrake Yeah.
@acraigl More reading material:
https://www.michaelessek.com/parody-fair-use-mash-ups-copyright-info-t-shirt-designers/44
Can I get the buy it now link?
@sohmageek With any luck it will be in a side sale. I’ll keep you posted.
Cyanide & dynamite?
/giphy cyanide and dynamite
@eonfifty by far, this is the biggest let down I’ve experienced all day.
I reckon you’ll need to change that backwards R. That’s straight up stolen.
@medz its called parody. Also the Toys R Us never went after people using the “R”, but they did go after people using the “R Us” But by the time someone purchases the brand, there won’t be enough time or energy to sue.
@makhay Other way around. Someone just spent $$$$ buying the brand. They will care.
@makhay @narfcake And their kinky side names to boot!
https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/15/17355928/toys-r-us-domain-names
Why isn’t this a mediocritee.com exclusive?
@makhay
/giphy does not compute
It’s less likely to be seen/reported in a side side than on the front page, with the winner getting significant reimbursement on what could be considered copyrighted material. It’s also much easier to pull one side sale shirt (out of 15) than a main page daily. They’re mitigating potential damage. Sorry Craigy. Cute shirt, though.
Thanks all, appreciate the feedback. I was obviously a little disappointed, but it helps reading through this stuff. Also, really grateful for the support I get in this community.
@ACraigL - The design is really cool.
Here, have some more support from me.
Really like this shirt.
Good news! Woot was willing to work with me to alter the design to make it less of a takedown target. Here’s the updated version:
And for good measure, the voting URL:
https://shirt.woot.com/derby/entry/108582/toys-were-us
I think they’re in the process of updating the derby artwork. I also have a S’mores design up there too if you haven’t seen it:
https://shirt.woot.com/derby/entry/108587/the-smores-you-know
Yay!
@ACraigL I hate to say, but I totally would’ve bought the original but I’m just not digging this one. The backwards R is so essential to it’s meaning. I can imagine if I was wearing it, every person would question why isn’t the R backward. Regardless of my taste, hope it wins and does well for you!
@cinoclav I get it. It clearly wasn’t my first choice. But the difference between not being able to win and having a chance to is worth it to me.
I’m going to see if it doesn’t place, if they’d still run with the original.
@ACraigL I support it either way…let us know…cause I dont pay attention much to woot anymore unless they throw a coupon at me…but I did go vote!
@ACraigL You persuade them to print the original and I’m totally in.
@cinoclav I discussed it with them. If it places, they’re going to go with the backwards F version. If not, they’ll run it as a side-sale with the backwards R as originally designed. It’s win-win for me this way ($1000 if I win, intended design if I don’t), and less exposure for woot.
We’ll know this weekend either way!
@ACraigL So I took my vote back on the lame-o backwards F version. Where can I vote for the original?
@therealjrn I want you to be joking, but I feel like you’re serious. The original version can’t win – they won’t run it as a feature. I didn’t have a lot of choice here.
@therealjrn Vote for it as is…you can’t vote for the original…if @ACraigL loses we get the original design…still a win
@ACraigL @amehzinggrace I want to be joking too. :sigh: I’ll go back and put a vote on your super-lame submission @ACraigL…
@therealjrn Thanks! Sorry I disappointed you.
@ACraigL Not you…that tarnation Woot dun did it.
Too bad they made you change it as the original version was so perfect. At least you can now have a greater chance of it selling (I hope anyway).
We did it! Yay! Thanks everyone.
/wootstalker shirt
Toys Were Us
Price: $15.00
Condition: New
@ACraigL Congrats and bummer!
Now can we somehow sneak a print of the original?
@cinoclav Probably not; it’s not up to @ACraigL to decide.
@ACraigL @narfcake I know that. I didn’t mean through woot. I’m going black market here.
@ACraigL @cinoclav You mean like on Amazon?
(FWIW, Woot’s lawyers regularly has to send takedown notices to Amazon because design thieves are listing shirt.woot designs there.
)
@ACraigL @narfcake I mean some printer in a back alley.
@cinoclav @narfcake You guys are funny. I have the art, of course, but woot really worked with me to allow this (sales are quite good, BTW), so I don’t want to shit on them by just turning around and putting it on some other site.
@cinoclav Yeah, not likely.
/giphy back alley printer.
@ACraigL my idea to remove the backwards R. I’ll take 20%.
@ACraigL @medz
benjaminleebates
quality posts: 18 Private Messages
Find out if Woot would be cool with modify the final print file; FLIP THE F, instead of the R... if the R is really at the root.
@ACraigL @narfcake that was days after:
https://meh.com/forum/topics/save-geoffrey-need-some-advicesupport#5b51e95c7b4420008b6d5ff0
@ACraigL @medz
ApeLad
quality posts: 70 Private Messages
Maybe there's a safe middle ground somehow? Sharp edges on the letters, no star in the R, a more generic giraffe? I'm no lawyer, but it seems worth a shot with such a great idea.
I do seem to remember about 20 years ago they came after any and all businesses with a backwards R in the name, but you're not even using it as the word "are."
@medz You can have the R. I’m not using it anyway.
@ACraigL @medz
I want the ‘r’. Gotta protect it before @narfcake steals it!
@ACraigL @medz @PlacidPenguin
/giphy R thief
@ACraigL @medz @narfcake
Wow. What a jerk.
I like the modified version. It’s still clear what it is, but it avoids any potential service mark issues. Good job!
/wootstalker https://shirt.woot.com/offers/toys-were-us
Toys Were Us
Price: $19.00
Condition: Probably New
@narfcake Wow! Can’t believe you got it already. I still have to pick up my copy. Or two. Probably tomorrow. Any guesses where it places in the top 20?
@ACraigL Yeah. I don’t know why they shipped it next day air, but I’m not complaining!
I’m guessing it’ll debut in the top 5 and end next Monday in first or second. It doesn’t take much these days versus the days of yore in which a design ends up 27th because it sold <1500 on debut and “only” sold an additional 170 in the following week.