I'm 6'5" tall. Reclining chairs on airplanes are my nemesis.
The person in front of me has a right to recline. I also have a right to repeatedly bash my knees into the back of their seat until they sit upright again.
One solution is to have chairs "recline" by sliding forward. That way, it is the reclining party who loses the space, rather than the poor, unfortunate soul who is sitting behind said reclining party.
@curtise While this sounds like a good idea, it would result in the airlines just scooting the seats 2" closer together so they could squeeze in another 6 seats...
@Ignorant not on a meh budget - we are lucky there are seats at all on a meh budget. Even Freddy Laker airlines, party airline that did not offer food or beverages between the USA and the UK (bring your own everything except the seat) had more room between the seats than today's cattle class.
It's bad when I read this poll and all I want to do is change the last question to read "Tearing our Nation apart, Lisa!" Stop me before it's too late.
I hate people who recline all the way. Really, I wish people (especially the person it front of me) wouldn't recline at all, but if you feel you MUST recline, for the love of God, only recline part way. Don't take ALL my knee space away. I'm 6'3", my knees are already awkwardly pressed against the seat-back. I only recline if I'm reclined into, and even then, only part way.
You know what I hate? When the guy in front of me reclines, reducing my amazing foot space and cramping my caviar-eating space. I almost want to stab him with my silver-plated flatware or wrap my hot towel around his face unexpectedly. Fortunately, at that moment I realize I can recline my own sumptuous leather and Alcantara seat back and rest in the precious bosom of first class luxury.
@bbycrts What airline are you flying? All first/business seats I've been on have little pod walls so no matter what happens in the seat in front does not affect me.
I've been flying a lot recently. I am only 5'4 and small and can't imagine being any bigger and fitting in a seat.
The last flight I took, I actually told the guy in front of me to please not recline or I would bang on the back of his seat the entire flight. Ok. I was sitting next to his wife ( I did not know her ) But they were kinda joking who should sit where since they were split up. I guess I could of swapped but it was a crammed xsmall plane and lots of isle traffic and no room to really make the swap. Anyways, somehow something about reclining was said and that's when I chirped in w/ a smile and tongue firmly in cheek. Everything in context ! But the great thing is that he didn't recline : ) And I helped her solve the crossword she had been working on all weekend and was completely frustrated with.
Can I just mention that knees being smooshed seems like a minor occurrence as you FLY at super crazy speeds at 40k feet in the AIR in a giant magic 100,000lb bus that can take you all over the planet in this fashion?
I'll take a little smooshage if I get to start my day in Pennsylvania and can eat dinner in Japan, but I'm just sayin'
@jsh139 Agreed as well and I even lived on a tall ship in Atlantic City. Tall ship thumbs up. Atlantic City thumbs down. In PA my grandmother's farm is 5 miles or so from where the 9/11 plane went down. The mountains around there are nice.
@djkittn NW PA here. It took me almost two days to get from here to Japan with a couple long layovers and flight delays. Too long for smooshage in my opinion.
I had actually never thought about this before. It's always inconvenient when the person in front of me reclines, but then I just pay it forward. Or backward, rather.
While normally when people recline it doesn't really bother me (and I am 5'10" with long legs so I just angle them) it does bother when the seat in front of me reclines if the person someone sitting next to me takes up all of his/her seat plus half of mine and half of my leg space, and is draped over the arm rest as well, if in fact it can even be kept down - especially if I am in the middle. The airlines needs a few seats in cattle class that fit these folks. If there aren't any people who need it then heck, make that seat an upgrade perk or something.
@Kidsandliz Ditto! Nothing worse than getting asphyxiated by fat rolls that aren't being held back by arms rests. I once lost half my seat once this way.
@Kidsandliz I'm a pretty small person (5'2") and I was once seated next to someone who was basically sitting on half of me as well as their own seat. I couldn't believe it. Fortunately, there was an empty seat elsewhere I was able to steal, but I couldn't imagine anyone bigger than me being able to sit next to them at all.
With my back problem the only way I can survive a flight is to recline the seat. If your legs are hitting the seat in front of you, complain to the airline, not to me! Just like if you are too fat for your seat you should complain to the airline, not take MY seat space.
@tightwad you can recline all you want, you will feel my knees in your back throughout the flight.. I make sure to continually tap my feet to keep a beat with my knees as well~
@devexityspace In my view (having not put excess thought into this) the seat and it's functions are what I paid for with my ticket. Similar to a little kid hitting my seat, if you did the same I would complain, as I paid for the seat regardless of how you feel about the location in relation to where you put your knees. Again the complaint should be from you (the person without enough room) to the airline. It isn't my fault that the seat causes you inconvenience. @Kidsandliz I often bring a pillow for lumbar support...why the seat has to curve is beyond me
@tightwad I paid for my ticket as well and I enjoy tapping and moving my knees/legs/foot throughout the flight. If someone is to recline to the point that the chair meets my knees, they either have to deal with my tapping, or not recline anymore.
I always recline. Maybe it's just the flights I'm on, but the seats recline literally 2 inches back nowadays. I don't see the harm. If I'm on one of those really old airplanes where full recline puts you in the person behind you's lap, then I will be respectful and only recline half way. Most of the time I'm in an exit row and a lot of times those seats don't recline at all.
They got little hands Little eyes They walk around Tellin' great big lies They got little noses And tiny little teeth They wear platform shoes On their nasty little feet
Well, I don't want no short people Don't want no short people Don't want no short people `Round here
And they recline their seats on itty bitty planes!
@DrCrankn I think it's an empathy thing. Those of us who are tall can appreciate the pain of the person in back of us. The wee folk haven't a clue (this is what I hope). Either that or they're evil.
@medz Yep. Me too. IMO opinion, folks 6'6" and taller should be given priority access to the exit row seats, just as a matter of basic decency and civic-mindedness.
@jqubed And that's kind of a tricky one, no? On the one hand, I'm not sure if I expect decency from humans in general. On the other, if I don't hope for it, the cause is in many ways lost and if I don't look for it I might miss it (and, worse, misunderstand it as perhaps its opposite) when it does occur. Kind of a damned if you do or don't scenario. I choose to believe.
@jqubed Damnit, you made me get all reflective there. I stopped myself before it got too far out of hand though. You might not believe the cheesiness I was headed into.
I typically recline about a third or half the way (if at all), always slowly and paying attention to any resistance. If I feel resistance, I usually scoot back up--unless the person in back of me has already demonstrated that they're an extraordinary asshole (hey, I'm human). I'm 6'7".
Speaking of assholes, what I hate is when the person in front of me throws himself back when reclining (happens a lot actually), as if to say, "Hey there, unfortunately tall, already cramped, big, goofy guy's knees in back of me, fuck you." Yeah, and, idunno, this is admittedly anecdotal, but it seems like the folks under 5'9"--you know, the folks who don't really need the space--do this more often.
Y'all may think it unkind of me to make "resistance" an issue. What you might not realize is that my knees begin touching the seat of the person in front of me, so I've little sympathy for those who insist on "wiggle room." I'd just like to not have so much pressure, thanks.
@joelmw As a 5'8" person, I don't need the space...but then reclining isn't about space, it's about the posture the seat forces. I would gladly have my seat slide forward when it reclines if possible.
@tightwad Agreed. I don't like the angle of the seat. I am used to reclining when I work; when I drive; when I watch TV, etc. Having to sit on a 6-hour flight is murder on my back without a little recline.
@tightwad New twist. Just got progressive lenses. So now my glasses don't support my slouchy preference either ('cause things are out of focus when I don't tilt my head just so).
I think we're forgetting the real problem. We should make the airliners lower the amount of seats or make bigger planes so we can have more space. We're letting them make us fight amongst our selves!
@ddmneo Damn right! But you know they've been doing the exact opposite, closing them in. Until AA recently figured we'd had enough and started making degrees of extra space, now that we're desperate enough to pay for it. That's some strategery right there.
My current flying pet peeve is the checked bag fees. To avoid the fees people are stuffing the largest carry-on possible and lugging it onboard. Then it seems like you get to the gate and they will check your bags for free because there is not enough room for the bags. I am guilty of this offense myself but blame @marklog and the airline for causing the hassle.
My Aunt and I were last to board one flight. We were told they would store our carry-ons because there was no room. Three hours later my Aunt's bag was lost and could not be found. It was delivered 8 hours later but nobody fessed up to what happened to it.
I have only ever flown economy, so I have never seen a seat that reclines more than 2" back. If this is enough to make you do something you would yell at your kids for... the recline isn't the issue. If you are one of the crazy tall people in this thread, perhaps saying, "hey man, I know it sucks, but my long ass legs are already barely fitting here, would you mind not reclining for this flight? Thank you." would be more appropriate.
I'm 5'9", which shouldn't be an issue, but my legs are as long as most 6' people. I feel some of the pain of no leg room while flying. It's not the fault of the person in front of me that my legs are uncomfortable, it's my fault for not paying for a seat with more legroom. If you recommend a "cattle" section, or buying extra seats for obese passengers, how about you buck up and pay for the legroom you need?
@Thumperchick Should people with disabilities have to "buck up" and pay more to accommodate their individual situation? One could argue that girth is a choice while height is not. You're saying because god cursed me with long legs, I should be forced to pay more for the same flight as a person of average height. Seems like discrimination.
@Thumperchick In this scenario, yes. Folks with a disability get handicap parking spots because it may be more difficult for them to make it safely to the store. It's more difficult for long legged folks to fit in an airline seat without injuring themselves. Airlines only catering to people of average height is essentially discrimination. Edit: TL:DR fingered: when it comes to fitting in a plane, being tall is a handicap.
The whole thing is a lose-lose situation. You either have people that are uncomfortable because they can't recline, or people that are uncomfortable because they're being reclined "on". The only solution is more legroom between the seats which equates to less seats on the plane which then equates to higher ticket prices and more pissed off customers. We just can't win!
@Thumperchick Hells to the yeah. I also find it funny that they have to tell you that tampering with a lavatory smoke detector is a crime and punishable by law!
Here's what the airlines should do: Have sections with different legroom and assign seating based on height. If you wanted to sit with your shorter family members for no additional charge, then you have to go with the smaller rows. If you want your shorter friend to sit with you in the tall row, they have to pay a fee. This way, every person is guaranteed a certain amount of space that is the same percentage of their height.
This is the airlines fault. They do everything to choke competition and never ran themselves right. Now they have a formula for profits I guess and basically at the expense of the passenger. Deep vein thrombosis. If you build a dangerous product don't you bare some accountability?
@LA_hillbilly What you say is true for US airlines in general, but not the world. I keep hearing about airlines like Etihad airlines, where the experience is simply wonderful. However, that comes with a downside. One US airline made more profit last year than practically all the non-US airlines combined.
This was a hotly debated topic and I dealt with it myself on the flight back as the guy in front of my immediately reclined.
I'm going to have to disagree with the recliners in this thread. We should all recognize that the comfort you receive from reclining isn't more than the discomfort you're causing the person behind you.
I just finished with a lot of flying, returning from a month-long trip to Europe on Sunday. These are my freshly reinforced opinions on reclining seats. I try to be polite but I do use my recliner on long flights. I have a cracked disc and sitting in any one position for more than an hour kills me. So I sit up a while, recline a while, half recline a while, use a lumbar pillow, take it out, sit on it, lean forward with my forehead on the seat in front of me, etc. If I could turn a bit sideways in the seat it would help a lot but with the tiny seats we get in cattle class that's impossible. The only time when I have been upset with a recliner in front of me was when one threw himself backward, knocking over my tablet and very nearly knocking my drink into my lap. Another observation, it's not only overweight people who take up more than their seat. My best friend and traveling companion has broad shoulders, and he takes up about 1/3rd of my seat with them. We are about the same height sitting down (I have a long torso), so in order to sit next to him I have to sit leaning sideways, which is hell on my back. I would trade the reclining option, though, for the head rests that raise and lower and have the arms that come down to support your head. I flew on 6 different airlines on this trip and British Airways was the best, no contest.
@moondrake Yes. Shoulder width is a huge problem. I have to sit with one shoulder forward as it basically overlaps the person next to me. Huge problem at conferences too when they jam those seats so close together. My arse might fit on the seat, but my shoulders are extending well beyond the edge of the chair and into the next person's space.
@barnabee I did, thanks. 12 countries, 2 cruises, 6 planes, and countless trains, busses, automobiles and small boats. It was the 5hr train Venice to Rome that killed my back the worst.
@moondrake Always a bummer to have issue that hurts, and for that I am truly sorry. But I feel no pity for your travel pain. I think your trip sounds like it was more than worth it !
@ceagee LOL. Other than the train it was all quite nice, but hauling around heavy luggage with my back out of whack was no walk in the park. Okay, parts of it were literally a walk in the park, but no picnic. I think the seats were designed by the Marquis de Sade.
@moondrake Turns out the first studies done to set seat widths on airplanes (way long ago), made a very basic incorrect assumption: that people are the widest at the butt. Wrong. Shoulders are the widest.
@SIMBM This is where mine and my husband's issues occur. He's built like a linebacker, and my shoulders are broad, too. We alternate arm position. It's a pain.
As soon as we leave the ground, I cross my legs and brace a knee against the back of the seat in front of me. I'll suffer through a couple of shoves and watch the person try to figure out why their seat isn't working. Usually, they'll look behind them and see that they are hitting my legs. If they apologize for banging my knees, I'll usually strike a deal and reposition to let them recline a little. If they just ignore it and stop, I relax and reposition so I'm comfortable. If, at some point, they flop backwards and recline, I'll make a point to annoy them with bumping, leaning as I get up, etc until they've had enough. And no, I do not recline mine unless there is nobody behind me.
Totally did not help the cause of you non recliners. Some choice examples:
U.S. airlines prohibit use of the Knee Defender, but the devices are not illegal.
"I put them in maybe a third of the time. Usually, the person in front tries (to recline) their seat a couple of times, and then they forget about it," Beach said. The device comes with a courtesy card to tell passengers that you've blocked them, but he doesn't use it.
"I'd rather just kind of let them think the seat is broken, rather than start a confrontation," he said.
So, totally passive aggressive.
Beach complained, saying that he couldn't work like that, but the flight attendant informed him that the woman had the right to recline. Both passengers were sitting in United's Economy Plus section, which offers 4 more inches of legroom than the rest of coach.
His reply: "You asked me to let her recline a few inches, and she just took 100 percent of it."
That's when Beach's anger boiled over. He said he pushed the woman's seat forward and put the Knee Defender back in. The woman stood up and threw a cup of soda — not water, as previously reported — at him.
Yeah, not sure this worked out so great for that guy.
@editorkid From the kneedefender ad: "because Knee Defenders™ are adjustable, you can generally set them to provide only as much protection as you need." Sounds like there was a built in compromise but none of the parties were willing to use it. They are both lucky the other passengers didn't punish them for getting their flight diverted.
@patti Yes, but it only came to the attention of the flight attendant when the woman complained. If he'd set it so that she could recline halfway in the first place, instead of completely blocking her, then she may have never complained. Both of them took an "all or nothing" stance. The "right to recline" versus the "right to use your tray" is a thorny issue.
@moondrake You're coming at it from a place where you feel like the woman should have asked him before reclining. It's her right to do so per the airlines. That said, the fellow behind her decided the right was no longer hers. Rather than asking her not to recline he put a prohibited device in. The airlines have built the seats to recline for a reason.
@JonT The thing that I find so hilarious about it is the seats with extra leg room actually have plenty to allow reclining. I usually fly in those seats as I am a tall girl that is mostly legs. This dude was just being a jerk.
@editorkid No doubt, that said...for lack of a better expression, he started it. If a flight attendant is telling you that it is another passenger's prerogative to recline and she's asked you to put the knee defender device (which is prohibited by the airlines) away what do you do? If you read the article the asshole in question states he is embarrassed by the way he handled the situation. It was on him to ask rather than simply take the right away from her.
@editorkid No, no one said that it was OK that she attacks him. I'm just pointing out that the entire situation could have been avoided if the guy hadn't used a prohibited device on the aircraft and that she had the right to recline without him stopping her, he could have asked her not to as a courtesy.
@editorkid@patti - We're all adults who should keep our hands, knees, and soft drinks to ourselves. He did start the physical altercation by forcing her seat back up - imagine if you were in that seat! She made a stupid decision by responding and throwing her drink.
@patti Not at all. I have never asked permission to recline, nor have I ever been asked. I am coming from the position that if he'd started out more reasonably, either by asking her not to recline or setting the device to allow her some recline then the whole thing might well not have occured. Both were in the wrong, first he used a prohibited device to completely deny her something she was entitled to, then he shoved her (albeit through the seat) and she threw a drink at him. Both of them were acting like a two year old having a tantrum and they both needed a good spanking. Instead, everyone else on the flight was punished by having hours stolen from them when the plane diverted.
Actually, what bothers me way more than reclining are the assholes who close the windowshades. And who reach past my seat from behind me to try to close mine. I don't pay for a window seat so I can not see a fucking thing. It's bad enough the wings get in the way of the view sometimes, but I haven't figured out a good solution there.
@Ruger9mm Yeah. I haven't been in a helicopter since I was a kid, but my dad was really into air shows and got to know pilots who'd take us up in those and in four-seaters. Always loved both of those and I still love to fly. Just last week I found a company here that does helicopter tours and I think I'm going to book one soon.
I just got home from the West Coast. Changed planes in LV. Got on a brand spankin' new SWA 737-800. Shockingly large amount of leg room, and just room in general. Big guy on the aisle seat agreed w/ me. Person in front didn't recline, but they could of w/ no problem from me. ( I was on 5 or 6 planes this trip and this was by far the most room and the nicest in general. Most of the rest would of been very uncomfortable if the person reclined) I stuffed my large tote under the seat in front of me and still had lots of room for my feet and legs. It was a comfy nice jet. Maybe they are catching a clue ?
PS I do not have any affiliation w/ SWA, except as frequent flier.
The person in front of me should never be able to recline, but I should be able to recline if I wish.
I'm 6'5" tall. Reclining chairs on airplanes are my nemesis.
The person in front of me has a right to recline. I also have a right to repeatedly bash my knees into the back of their seat until they sit upright again.
@capguncowboy: You kneed Knee Defenders! http://www.kneedefender.com/goods/kneedefender.html
@capguncowboy This is why I always get the "poor people +" seating with just a bit of extra legroom. It helps.
If you're upset with the person in front of you reclining, then you should just recline, too. Problem solved.
@denton that doesn't help your knees
@denton Until you get to the back row tht doesn't recline...
@denton Your a midget aren't you?
One solution is to have chairs "recline" by sliding forward. That way, it is the reclining party who loses the space, rather than the poor, unfortunate soul who is sitting behind said reclining party.
@curtise While this sounds like a good idea, it would result in the airlines just scooting the seats 2" closer together so they could squeeze in another 6 seats...
Don't you all get the lay flat seats?
@Ignorant not on a meh budget - we are lucky there are seats at all on a meh budget. Even Freddy Laker airlines, party airline that did not offer food or beverages between the USA and the UK (bring your own everything except the seat) had more room between the seats than today's cattle class.
It's bad when I read this poll and all I want to do is change the last question to read "Tearing our Nation apart, Lisa!" Stop me before it's too late.
@The_9th_Sage oh hai Mark.
I hate people who recline all the way. Really, I wish people (especially the person it front of me) wouldn't recline at all, but if you feel you MUST recline, for the love of God, only recline part way. Don't take ALL my knee space away. I'm 6'3", my knees are already awkwardly pressed against the seat-back. I only recline if I'm reclined into, and even then, only part way.
The only seats that should recline are those on flights longer than 8 hours. Otherwise airlines should disable the ability to recline.
@wisenekt What about red eyes?
You know what I hate? When the guy in front of me reclines, reducing my amazing foot space and cramping my caviar-eating space. I almost want to stab him with my silver-plated flatware or wrap my hot towel around his face unexpectedly. Fortunately, at that moment I realize I can recline my own sumptuous leather and Alcantara seat back and rest in the precious bosom of first class luxury.
@bbycrts What airline are you flying? All first/business seats I've been on have little pod walls so no matter what happens in the seat in front does not affect me.
Future Airbus seating p.a.f.-- Recline ?? Hell No
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BskifpHCUAAoj5N.png:medium
@Zebra What fresh hell is this?
@Thumperchick What you don't see is while sitting on the bike seat you have to peddle to keep the plane in the air.
I've been flying a lot recently. I am only 5'4 and small and can't imagine being any bigger and fitting in a seat.
The last flight I took, I actually told the guy in front of me to please not recline or I would bang on the back of his seat the entire flight.
Ok. I was sitting next to his wife ( I did not know her ) But they were kinda joking who should sit where since they were split up. I guess I could of swapped but it was a crammed xsmall plane and lots of isle traffic and no room to really make the swap. Anyways, somehow something about reclining was said and that's when I chirped in w/ a smile and tongue firmly in cheek.
Everything in context !
But the great thing is that he didn't recline : )
And I helped her solve the crossword she had been working on all weekend and was completely frustrated with.
Can I just mention that knees being smooshed seems like a minor occurrence as you FLY at super crazy speeds at 40k feet in the AIR in a giant magic 100,000lb bus that can take you all over the planet in this fashion?
I'll take a little smooshage if I get to start my day in Pennsylvania and can eat dinner in Japan, but I'm just sayin'
Well sure, people will endure all manner of physical punishment if it means escaping Pennsylvania
@matthew Hey- as a resident of PA, I take offense to that- people want to leave NJ, but not generally PA.
@dashcloud Agreed! PA is a paradise compared to NJ.
@jsh139 Agreed as well and I even lived on a tall ship in Atlantic City. Tall ship thumbs up. Atlantic City thumbs down. In PA my grandmother's farm is 5 miles or so from where the 9/11 plane went down. The mountains around there are nice.
@djkittn NW PA here. It took me almost two days to get from here to Japan with a couple long layovers and flight delays. Too long for smooshage in my opinion.
@jsh139 Consider again that you just compared PA to NJ; of course it will seem better.
(Actually I visited central PA last year and it seemed nice)
I had actually never thought about this before. It's always inconvenient when the person in front of me reclines, but then I just pay it forward. Or backward, rather.
While normally when people recline it doesn't really bother me (and I am 5'10" with long legs so I just angle them) it does bother when the seat in front of me reclines if the person someone sitting next to me takes up all of his/her seat plus half of mine and half of my leg space, and is draped over the arm rest as well, if in fact it can even be kept down - especially if I am in the middle. The airlines needs a few seats in cattle class that fit these folks. If there aren't any people who need it then heck, make that seat an upgrade perk or something.
@Kidsandliz Ditto! Nothing worse than getting asphyxiated by fat rolls that aren't being held back by arms rests. I once lost half my seat once this way.
@Kidsandliz I'm a pretty small person (5'2") and I was once seated next to someone who was basically sitting on half of me as well as their own seat. I couldn't believe it. Fortunately, there was an empty seat elsewhere I was able to steal, but I couldn't imagine anyone bigger than me being able to sit next to them at all.
With my back problem the only way I can survive a flight is to recline the seat. If your legs are hitting the seat in front of you, complain to the airline, not to me! Just like if you are too fat for your seat you should complain to the airline, not take MY seat space.
@tightwad you can recline all you want, you will feel my knees in your back throughout the flight.. I make sure to continually tap my feet to keep a beat with my knees as well~
@devexityspace Ooh Ooh lower back support then.
@devexityspace In my view (having not put excess thought into this) the seat and it's functions are what I paid for with my ticket. Similar to a little kid hitting my seat, if you did the same I would complain, as I paid for the seat regardless of how you feel about the location in relation to where you put your knees. Again the complaint should be from you (the person without enough room) to the airline. It isn't my fault that the seat causes you inconvenience. @Kidsandliz I often bring a pillow for lumbar support...why the seat has to curve is beyond me
@tightwad I paid for my ticket as well and I enjoy tapping and moving my knees/legs/foot throughout the flight. If someone is to recline to the point that the chair meets my knees, they either have to deal with my tapping, or not recline anymore.
I always recline. Maybe it's just the flights I'm on, but the seats recline literally 2 inches back nowadays. I don't see the harm. If I'm on one of those really old airplanes where full recline puts you in the person behind you's lap, then I will be respectful and only recline half way. Most of the time I'm in an exit row and a lot of times those seats don't recline at all.
@jsh139 No harm, no harm at all, ^&*%$@!
@joelmw Yeah that's definitely more than a couple inches
@jsh139 When my knees start pressed against your unreclined seat, this is how 2" feels. It's a metaphor.
@joelmw Gotcha. I'll be sure and ask the guy sitting behind me on my next flight if his name is joelmw :)
@jsh139 Thanks! :-) I'll say "hey."
@joelmw Maybe you shouldn't put your knees up in the air. Just a thought.
I think this is the real reason they don't allow weapons on planes.
@parodymandotcom I fly with my firearm.. unfortunately it's in the checked luggage, and not on my person or in my carry on
To quote Randy Newman!
Short people got no reason
To live
They got little hands
Little eyes
They walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
`Round here
And they recline their seats on itty bitty planes!
@DrCrankn I think it's an empathy thing. Those of us who are tall can appreciate the pain of the person in back of us. The wee folk haven't a clue (this is what I hope). Either that or they're evil.
@joelmw As a short person, I'll own up to being somewhat malevolent.
@DrCrankn Then they want help putting their bags in the overhead cause they can't reach. Check it buck-o!
@DrCrankn I LOLed. Well, okay, I chuckled softly but sincerely.
@joelmw We could also encourage them to climb into the overhead and save some room! I'm thinking 6' and shorter
@joelmw
@DrCrankn We had a Southwest attendant--she was a tiny little thing--do that once for fun. It was scary how easily she fit up there.
I always try to get a seat in the emergency exit row since the seats in front aren't allowed to recline into the exit row.
@medz Yep. Me too. IMO opinion, folks 6'6" and taller should be given priority access to the exit row seats, just as a matter of basic decency and civic-mindedness.
@joelmw Yup. When it comes to flying, being tall is a handicap that you have no control over. It's discrimination, really.
@joelmw
> just as a matter of basic decency and civic-mindedness.
I'm sorry, you're expecting basic decency and civic-mindedness from airlines?
@jqubed We fly Southwest as often as we can. You might be surprised how decent they are.
@jqubed And that's kind of a tricky one, no? On the one hand, I'm not sure if I expect decency from humans in general. On the other, if I don't hope for it, the cause is in many ways lost and if I don't look for it I might miss it (and, worse, misunderstand it as perhaps its opposite) when it does occur. Kind of a damned if you do or don't scenario. I choose to believe.
@jqubed Damnit, you made me get all reflective there. I stopped myself before it got too far out of hand though. You might not believe the cheesiness I was headed into.
I typically recline about a third or half the way (if at all), always slowly and paying attention to any resistance. If I feel resistance, I usually scoot back up--unless the person in back of me has already demonstrated that they're an extraordinary asshole (hey, I'm human). I'm 6'7".
Speaking of assholes, what I hate is when the person in front of me throws himself back when reclining (happens a lot actually), as if to say, "Hey there, unfortunately tall, already cramped, big, goofy guy's knees in back of me, fuck you." Yeah, and, idunno, this is admittedly anecdotal, but it seems like the folks under 5'9"--you know, the folks who don't really need the space--do this more often.
Y'all may think it unkind of me to make "resistance" an issue. What you might not realize is that my knees begin touching the seat of the person in front of me, so I've little sympathy for those who insist on "wiggle room." I'd just like to not have so much pressure, thanks.
@joelmw As a 5'8" person, I don't need the space...but then reclining isn't about space, it's about the posture the seat forces. I would gladly have my seat slide forward when it reclines if possible.
@tightwad Agreed. I don't like the angle of the seat. I am used to reclining when I work; when I drive; when I watch TV, etc. Having to sit on a 6-hour flight is murder on my back without a little recline.
@tightwad New twist. Just got progressive lenses. So now my glasses don't support my slouchy preference either ('cause things are out of focus when I don't tilt my head just so).
I think we're forgetting the real problem. We should make the airliners lower the amount of seats or make bigger planes so we can have more space. We're letting them make us fight amongst our selves!
@ddmneo Damn right! But you know they've been doing the exact opposite, closing them in. Until AA recently figured we'd had enough and started making degrees of extra space, now that we're desperate enough to pay for it. That's some strategery right there.
My current flying pet peeve is the checked bag fees. To avoid the fees people are stuffing the largest carry-on possible and lugging it onboard. Then it seems like you get to the gate and they will check your bags for free because there is not enough room for the bags. I am guilty of this offense myself but blame @marklog and the airline for causing the hassle.
My Aunt and I were last to board one flight. We were told they would store our carry-ons because there was no room. Three hours later my Aunt's bag was lost and could not be found. It was delivered 8 hours later but nobody fessed up to what happened to it.
Screw you all who hate on recliners, you can bet your ass I am reclining as soon as I can on that plane.
Congratulations - YOU are the problem.
@Stallion Oh, we picked that up. And fuck you for saying "screw." ;-)
@Stallion Great, another midget...
I have only ever flown economy, so I have never seen a seat that reclines more than 2" back. If this is enough to make you do something you would yell at your kids for... the recline isn't the issue.
If you are one of the crazy tall people in this thread, perhaps saying, "hey man, I know it sucks, but my long ass legs are already barely fitting here, would you mind not reclining for this flight? Thank you." would be more appropriate.
I'm 5'9", which shouldn't be an issue, but my legs are as long as most 6' people. I feel some of the pain of no leg room while flying. It's not the fault of the person in front of me that my legs are uncomfortable, it's my fault for not paying for a seat with more legroom. If you recommend a "cattle" section, or buying extra seats for obese passengers, how about you buck up and pay for the legroom you need?
@Thumperchick Should people with disabilities have to "buck up" and pay more to accommodate their individual situation? One could argue that girth is a choice while height is not. You're saying because god cursed me with long legs, I should be forced to pay more for the same flight as a person of average height. Seems like discrimination.
@medz are you saying that having fully functional, long legs is comparable to being disabled? How silly.
@Thumperchick In this scenario, yes. Folks with a disability get handicap parking spots because it may be more difficult for them to make it safely to the store. It's more difficult for long legged folks to fit in an airline seat without injuring themselves. Airlines only catering to people of average height is essentially discrimination. Edit: TL:DR fingered: when it comes to fitting in a plane, being tall is a handicap.
@medz No, it really isn't. It's an inconvenience, not a handicap.
@Thumperchick Tell that to my cramped legs and sore knees.
The whole thing is a lose-lose situation. You either have people that are uncomfortable because they can't recline, or people that are uncomfortable because they're being reclined "on". The only solution is more legroom between the seats which equates to less seats on the plane which then equates to higher ticket prices and more pissed off customers. We just can't win!
@jsh139 I think we can all agree it's a good thing that they no longer allow smoking on a plane, though, right?
@Thumperchick Hells to the yeah. I also find it funny that they have to tell you that tampering with a lavatory smoke detector is a crime and punishable by law!
Here's what the airlines should do: Have sections with different legroom and assign seating based on height. If you wanted to sit with your shorter family members for no additional charge, then you have to go with the smaller rows. If you want your shorter friend to sit with you in the tall row, they have to pay a fee. This way, every person is guaranteed a certain amount of space that is the same percentage of their height.
This is the airlines fault. They do everything to choke competition and never ran themselves right. Now they have a formula for profits I guess and basically at the expense of the passenger. Deep vein thrombosis. If you build a dangerous product don't you bare some accountability?
@LA_hillbilly What you say is true for US airlines in general, but not the world. I keep hearing about airlines like Etihad airlines, where the experience is simply wonderful. However, that comes with a downside. One US airline made more profit last year than practically all the non-US airlines combined.
This was a hotly debated topic and I dealt with it myself on the flight back as the guy in front of my immediately reclined.
I'm going to have to disagree with the recliners in this thread. We should all recognize that the comfort you receive from reclining isn't more than the discomfort you're causing the person behind you.
I just finished with a lot of flying, returning from a month-long trip to Europe on Sunday. These are my freshly reinforced opinions on reclining seats. I try to be polite but I do use my recliner on long flights. I have a cracked disc and sitting in any one position for more than an hour kills me. So I sit up a while, recline a while, half recline a while, use a lumbar pillow, take it out, sit on it, lean forward with my forehead on the seat in front of me, etc. If I could turn a bit sideways in the seat it would help a lot but with the tiny seats we get in cattle class that's impossible. The only time when I have been upset with a recliner in front of me was when one threw himself backward, knocking over my tablet and very nearly knocking my drink into my lap. Another observation, it's not only overweight people who take up more than their seat. My best friend and traveling companion has broad shoulders, and he takes up about 1/3rd of my seat with them. We are about the same height sitting down (I have a long torso), so in order to sit next to him I have to sit leaning sideways, which is hell on my back. I would trade the reclining option, though, for the head rests that raise and lower and have the arms that come down to support your head. I flew on 6 different airlines on this trip and British Airways was the best, no contest.
@moondrake Hey, hope you had a great vacation!
@moondrake Yes. Shoulder width is a huge problem. I have to sit with one shoulder forward as it basically overlaps the person next to me. Huge problem at conferences too when they jam those seats so close together. My arse might fit on the seat, but my shoulders are extending well beyond the edge of the chair and into the next person's space.
@barnabee I did, thanks. 12 countries, 2 cruises, 6 planes, and countless trains, busses, automobiles and small boats. It was the 5hr train Venice to Rome that killed my back the worst.
@moondrake Always a bummer to have issue that hurts, and for that I am truly sorry. But I feel no pity for your travel pain. I think your trip sounds like it was more than worth it !
@ceagee LOL. Other than the train it was all quite nice, but hauling around heavy luggage with my back out of whack was no walk in the park. Okay, parts of it were literally a walk in the park, but no picnic. I think the seats were designed by the Marquis de Sade.
@moondrake Turns out the first studies done to set seat widths on airplanes (way long ago), made a very basic incorrect assumption: that people are the widest at the butt. Wrong. Shoulders are the widest.
@SIMBM This is where mine and my husband's issues occur. He's built like a linebacker, and my shoulders are broad, too. We alternate arm position. It's a pain.
An interesting article about what it's like to be the fat person on the plane:
http://jezebel.com/heres-what-it-feels-like-to-be-a-fat-person-on-a-plane-1488750726
All of this talk about girth in the seating area. Here's the bottom line.
As soon as we leave the ground, I cross my legs and brace a knee against the back of the seat in front of me. I'll suffer through a couple of shoves and watch the person try to figure out why their seat isn't working. Usually, they'll look behind them and see that they are hitting my legs. If they apologize for banging my knees, I'll usually strike a deal and reposition to let them recline a little. If they just ignore it and stop, I relax and reposition so I'm comfortable. If, at some point, they flop backwards and recline, I'll make a point to annoy them with bumping, leaning as I get up, etc until they've had enough. And no, I do not recline mine unless there is nobody behind me.
This guy:
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2014/09/03/passenger-speaks-out-about-airline-seat-dispute
Totally did not help the cause of you non recliners. Some choice examples:
So, totally passive aggressive.
Yeah, not sure this worked out so great for that guy.
@patti The airline's at fault here for handing out canned ordnance to these ruffians.
@editorkid From the kneedefender ad: "because Knee Defenders™ are adjustable, you can generally set them to provide only as much protection as you need." Sounds like there was a built in compromise but none of the parties were willing to use it. They are both lucky the other passengers didn't punish them for getting their flight diverted.
@editorkid The airline is only at fault for creating the situation. It's that guys own fault for behaving like an asshole.
@moondrake No compromise, passengers are allowed to recline on flights and regulations prohibit use of knee defenders. Sorry.
@patti Yes, but it only came to the attention of the flight attendant when the woman complained. If he'd set it so that she could recline halfway in the first place, instead of completely blocking her, then she may have never complained. Both of them took an "all or nothing" stance. The "right to recline" versus the "right to use your tray" is a thorny issue.
@patti You might see it that way, but I see it as the tale of a man pushed too far by the insanity of recliners.
@patti Actually, they were both assholes! I hope this isn't a surprise ending.
@moondrake You're coming at it from a place where you feel like the woman should have asked him before reclining. It's her right to do so per the airlines. That said, the fellow behind her decided the right was no longer hers. Rather than asking her not to recline he put a prohibited device in. The airlines have built the seats to recline for a reason.
@JonT The thing that I find so hilarious about it is the seats with extra leg room actually have plenty to allow reclining. I usually fly in those seats as I am a tall girl that is mostly legs. This dude was just being a jerk.
@patti Then again, so was she.
@editorkid No doubt, that said...for lack of a better expression, he started it. If a flight attendant is telling you that it is another passenger's prerogative to recline and she's asked you to put the knee defender device (which is prohibited by the airlines) away what do you do? If you read the article the asshole in question states he is embarrassed by the way he handled the situation. It was on him to ask rather than simply take the right away from her.
@patti You keep saying "the asshole" as if there were just one.
I find it highly disturbing that otherwise normal people are advocating for what is mild assault, over a seatback position.
@editorkid Just referring to the one that caused the situation.
@Thumperchick And that it's OK that she attacks him.
@Thumperchick Is anyone advocating for throwing drinks?
@editorkid No, no one said that it was OK that she attacks him. I'm just pointing out that the entire situation could have been avoided if the guy hadn't used a prohibited device on the aircraft and that she had the right to recline without him stopping her, he could have asked her not to as a courtesy.
@editorkid @patti - We're all adults who should keep our hands, knees, and soft drinks to ourselves. He did start the physical altercation by forcing her seat back up - imagine if you were in that seat! She made a stupid decision by responding and throwing her drink.
@Thumperchick Yeah she did, enormously stupid. That throwing a drink move is straight up out of the drama queen playbook btw.
@patti Not at all. I have never asked permission to recline, nor have I ever been asked. I am coming from the position that if he'd started out more reasonably, either by asking her not to recline or setting the device to allow her some recline then the whole thing might well not have occured. Both were in the wrong, first he used a prohibited device to completely deny her something she was entitled to, then he shoved her (albeit through the seat) and she threw a drink at him. Both of them were acting like a two year old having a tantrum and they both needed a good spanking. Instead, everyone else on the flight was punished by having hours stolen from them when the plane diverted.
@moondrake Fair enough, I think I misunderstood then as I was trying to make the same point!
Just got my first class upgrade confirmation from US Airways for my flight on Sunday. You bet your ass I'll be reclining!
Actually, what bothers me way more than reclining are the assholes who close the windowshades. And who reach past my seat from behind me to try to close mine. I don't pay for a window seat so I can not see a fucking thing. It's bad enough the wings get in the way of the view sometimes, but I haven't figured out a good solution there.
@editorkid fly in a helicopter wings don't block much of the view. You are at a higher risk of dying, but that's a view to die for.
@Ruger9mm Yeah. I haven't been in a helicopter since I was a kid, but my dad was really into air shows and got to know pilots who'd take us up in those and in four-seaters. Always loved both of those and I still love to fly. Just last week I found a company here that does helicopter tours and I think I'm going to book one soon.
@editorkid Reaching past you to close your window shade is just rude. If they want it dark, they can wear a sleep mask.
I just got home from the West Coast. Changed planes in LV. Got on a brand spankin' new SWA 737-800. Shockingly large amount of leg room, and just room in general. Big guy on the aisle seat agreed w/ me. Person in front didn't recline, but they could of w/ no problem from me. ( I was on 5 or 6 planes this trip and this was by far the most room and the nicest in general. Most of the rest would of been very uncomfortable if the person reclined)
I stuffed my large tote under the seat in front of me and still had lots of room for my feet and legs.
It was a comfy nice jet.
Maybe they are catching a clue ?
PS I do not have any affiliation w/ SWA, except as frequent flier.