Pi Network Cryptocurrency

@Tadlem43 I highly recommend a hardware wallet if you have a decent amount of crypto. They’re super easy to use and worth it for the peace of mind. I use a Trezor.

@sleuth Ive been looking at the Nano S, which is the original, I think. It doesn’t have all the bells and whistles as a lot of them, but does the job… at less than $60. It’s supposed to be super easy, which is something I need.
I won’t have a lot of crypto right off, but I want to make sure it’s safe and that I can get to it, and something I can grow into as I get more later on.
Thanks for your input!

@Tadlem43 I really don’t have that much crypto saved up yet, so I haven’t started looking into hardware wallets. I do have the coinbase wallet since I’ve been using coinbase mainly as my starting point. I’ve also gotten a couple random ones that I don’t use much for nano coin and doge (for the memes!).
@sleuth I appreciate your recommendation for a hardware wallet. I’ll definitely look more into that as I keep learning and earning.

@sleuth @Tadlem43 @thejackalope
I like Exodus. I’ve also tried out Electrum. Nicehash uses their own separate wallet service (although I don’t recommend it as your primary wallet for reasons noted below).

The thing about wallets is if you lose them (or the password - the seed words), whatever was in them is also lost.

Also, online wallets like coinbase are really just you using their wallet. Much like a bank, but with literally none of the regulation.

That said, there are reputable exchanges - Coinbase is the big one in the US. There are others, like Gemini and Uphold.com. While not really for “investing”, more for cross-currency payments - to pay freelancers in their local or preferred currency - including cryptos, Uphold stands out to me.

Also, all exchanges or wallets have a “spread” or may not always discover the best price to match. If you trade often, a Coinbase Pro account will give you lower trade costs than the general Coinbase account.

Remember when there used to be brokerage fees for executing trades? Well that’s where crypto trading is right now. Some bake the volatility and fees into their buy/sell prices. Others separate them.

You can also, for tax purposes, roll the fees into your basis or add the total at the end. TINSTAAFL.

@mike808 @sleuth @thejackalope Thanks for the info!
I’m not familiar with Exodus, but it looks really good! How are the fees with it? Is Coinbase cheaper to start?
Can you move your currency to another wallet? Say, from Exodus to a hardware wallet? (see… I don’t know ANYTHING about this…lol)
I like Atomic, and it has a good rep, but from what I’ve read, the fees are kinda high.
I want to take that step…and I’m all set to do it… I just don’t want to screw this up. (it’s called ‘fear of the unknown’), so thank you for all of the information.

@sleuth @Tadlem43 @thejackalope
Your wallet should not have any fees. The exchange your wallet is tied to, if you are using a hosted/online wallet, is what charges fees to execute a trade on their exchange.

Don’t put more than you can afford to lose in your wallet. Remember devices break. Or get stolen. Or get lost. Standalone wallets will be affected by this. Especially wallets in apps on a cell phone. Cell phones only last 2-3 years.

Online/hosted wallets aren’t. However, if the service gets compromised, or gets shut down, or hacked, you don’t really own your crypto. You only own crypto for keys you own.

If you have to have an online wallet, TURN ON TWO-FACTOR AUTHENTICATION!

If you have enough crypto where losing it all is worth preventing that, you probably need a hardware wallet. If you have enough in an online wallet, that you want to protect it, don’t run online “hot” wallet apps on cellphones, and make sure that whatever desktop/laptop you run your wallet app on, you are up to date on security patching, run anti-malware (Avast, Symantec, McAfee, ESET, Kaspersky, etc.), and run a separate browser profile/instance just for doing your crypto so your other browsing doesn’t install some drive-by zero-day hack.

If you’re sloppy about your device security and internet hygeine and get robbed, then maybe this isn’t for you.

And always make sure you get your wallet software (including upgrades) directly from the source. Never install that kind of app from some software hosting service or gussied up “partner” website, no matter how convincing. And check the checksums if you really have significant amounts of crypto in your wallets.

The protection efforts you apply should be proportional to the risk of loss.

@sleuth @Tadlem43 @thejackalope
Moving crypto from one wallet to another is as easy as sending crypto to an address. Just make sure that the address is actually the address of your wallet. You will have to pay a network fee in most cases - essentially to “publish” your transaction to the blockchain. Your wallet supplier connects their wallet to their own nodes, who take a cut for publishing your wallet’s transactions to the blockchain.

In crypto, there are no reversals or cancellations. There is no “float”. That’s the point of it. Getting paid is guaranteed, and everyone can see that the coins/funds have transferred.

@mike808 @sleuth @thejackalope No, fees for purchases or trades.
The only thing i use my cell phone for are emergency calls, to play games, check the weather, etc. I don’t put ANYTHING on my cell that I don’t want someone else to have access to. EVER.
Computer security should be 2nd nature by now to anyone who has one. I don’t even download things onto my computer unless I am at the original source, or it’s a site that I know is reputable and I went there for a specific download. I never download when something is sent to me. Even emails from my bank, etc., I go to the site, itself, and open it. Never from an e-mail or link.
One thing I like about Atomic, is they have a 12 word recovery system in place, so if you lose your access, you can put those words in and you’re back to your wallet and its contents. I know some others have that, but I was impressed with Atomic’s.
I have gone so far as to set up a separate checking account at a bank different from where my other accounts are located, just to use for crypto when I start to purchase it. I don’t want to leave ANYTHING to chance, and I don’t want my other personal accounts exposed if something should go horribly awry.
Again, thank you for the information. Still learning…

@mike808 @sleuth @thejackalope
I see. I know that some wallets are better at exchanges than others.
I don’t intend on changing wallets, but I like to have the info, just in case.
Thank you for answering that for me.
I guess it’s time I bit the bullet, buy my hardware, and start in on this. I’ve got a couple of currencies that I’ve been watching and want to dabble in before I get too much into it. I think once I actually do it, I won’t be so anxious about it, and it will be easier for me to understand it all. I’m a visual/tactile learner and sometimes that makes it harder for me to get things into my head. You all have helped me so much! I just can’t thank you enough!

@Tadlem43

One thing I like about Atomic, is they have a 12 word recovery system in place,

All offline/cold wallets have this. There’s a standard specification for this recovery feature.

There are physical wallets to store that seed or a passphrase, like cryptosteel.com instead of a piece of paper that is at rusk from fire.

However, unless you’re talking hundreds of thousands of dollars of value, most of that is overkill. You could just spend $1-2K and get a really good safe and put cash/gold in it.

And the bit about a separate bank account is a) more fees/costs to either store or invest your money, and b) part of why bitcoin and cryptos exists is so you don’t need a bank at all.

@mike808 The bank account doesn’t cost me anything, so that’s not an issue.
I don’t want to replace my bank accounts with crypto, I just want to be able to invest some without any possible risk to my existing accounts, or any confusion about investments, earnings, etc., and a separate account is a way to make it easier to track those. It also will protect my active accounts from any problems if something goes wrong with my crypto purchases, etc. Not that I expect anything, but I just don’t want to put my other accounts in any jeopardy.
I didn’t know all cold wallets had that. I knew some did, but not all. I probably won’t use it anyway, but instead will use the Nano S, unless you can give me info on why I shouldn’t use that or why i SHOULD use something else.
Thanks so much for your input! You’ve given me a LOT of very good information. I feel more comfortable about this now and will probably go on an buy the Nano S and start purchasing the currency. Maybe even in the next few days! Kinda of exciting for me. lol (I live a pretty boring life).

@Tadlem43 The Nano S is fine. I like the Trezor T. However, unless you’re talking like $10K+ of crypto, the cost of the HW wallet might not make sense.

Then again, if you want independence from a phone or laptop, then a HW wallet is the way to go. Buy new, direct. That ensures supply chain integrity from the manufacturer to you.

If you wanted a separate account that can hook into your bank account that can also hold crypto, there’s the online wallets of Uphold or Coinbase that can do ACH transfers and still hold real USD. They have strong 2FA controls over any outflows or transfers of crypto or fiat. They also have strong KYC programs, and are US regulated FIs for AML.

Non-US exchanges, not so much. Also, your wallet needs to support the currencies you plan to hold. If it’s the big ones, your fine, but I would say that many of the DeFi tokens and micro-coins are not, and you’ll have a hard time getting support on the big exchanges to do trades. These are all completely unregulated markets with protections for coin owners, unlike what NASDAQ, NYSE, CBOT, the SEC, do for the stock markets.

@mike808 Glad to hear the Nano S is a decent option. I think I’ll go that way. The mfg. is having a 10% off sale, to boot!
Should I buy from someplace like Coinbase and just keep the info in the wallet? I thought I could buy direct with ACH via the Nano S. Yes?

@Tadlem43 Unless you plan to spend what you buy on Coinbase in person or where you can’t get online, that’s not how it works.

Think of Coinbase as your brokerage firm and your wallet as your … wallet or a safe at home. Just like you dont buy stock on Etrade and then have them mail you the actual stock certificates, you don’t typically buy on an exchange (Coinbase) and transfer to your cold wallet.

Unless you plan to buy and hold for a long time (aka hodling) and you don’t trust Coinbase to stick around or have sketchy security. Hint: They’re going public later this month, so probably not.

Your wallet is just an address to send/receive crypto. You need someplace to sell you crypto (send it to your address). So if you’re buying, there’s the problem of getting your dollars to whomever is selling you the crypto. Exchanges congregate buyers and sellers to create a marketplace. They provide you with a hosted wallet with addresses of your own.

So you’d be paying the network fee to send the crypto in your coinbase wallet to your Nano S. And then again when you sell it out of your Nano or to put it back into your Coinbase account/wallet.

If you’re buying something with crypto, the whole point is that every address is equal - it makes no difference if it is from your Coinbase wallet address or your Nano S address.

Also, all modern wallets use HD (Heirarchical Deterministic) addresses. Meaning you can generate new addresses as you need them, but they’re all really the same wallet - yours. A different one every purchase if it suits you. Much like the virtual card numbers you can get from your credit card issuer’s website integrated with Visa/MC wallets, or Google/Samsung/Apple Pay on a merchant website. Newegg is one, for example.

@mike808 I’m sorry, but I don’t see where that differs from what I said…just more detail.
If I have to keep my currency in Coinbase’s wallet, why bother to get a Nano S?
I thought, like most wallets, I could purchase with the Nano S, and it would just go into that wallet (Is that not correct? Give the Nano S my ACH info and buy it there?) That was my question. I have no desire to go through Coinbase, or any other online site.

@Tadlem43 Then you will have find the person who has the crypto you want to buy and is willing to sell it to you. And you will need to negotiate the price with that person.

What is possible and what actually happens are two different things.

It’s like trying to buy stock without broker or going through NASDAQ or NYSE exchanges. Yes, you can. Is it practical or cost effective? Probably not for 99% of investors, and certainly not for inexperienced small investors. That’s why the government regulates those industries.

Remember, whomever is willing to sell you crypto isn’t motivated to “give you a good deal” when they have no competition from other sellers. That is what an exchange does - it literally creates the market for buyers and sellers. For a small fee, of course.

@Tadlem43 As for why bother to get a Nano S, if you walk around with $50K in your wallet or stuff it into your computer, you create an attractive target for theft, but more importantly, for inadvertent loss.

If you dont trust your bank (closed, no ATMs, whatever other risks you think apply) to keep your money safe or available, then that is why you get a hardware wallet.

You also can get one because you’re interested in how the technology works, not because of any other reason. There’s no right or wrong, just different costs. If you’re a pure long-term investor and want to minimize costs, you can buy on an exchange, transfer to a wallet and put the wallet in your safe at home.

For most people, they will want the convenience of an online wallet or even a debit card tied to their crypto account, like Uphold does.

@mike808 No, I don’t think you understood my question…which was sort of rhetorical.
IF…IF… I’m going to buy from Coinbase and use their wallet, (as it seemed you were suggesting), why would I need a Nano S? was my question.
I fully understand the need for a wallet, and for a hardware wallet. My point was that it is redundant to have both.

@mike808 I need to look into this further. I don’t see how buying from Nano S is any different from buying from Coinbase. Don’t they both use exchanges?
Thanks, again, for the info.

@Tadlem43 Coinbase is the exchange. They also host a wallet for their account holders. Their wallet conveniently can hold each crypto they allow on their exchange.

Think of CB as your brokerage account and your Nano as an actual wallet you hold in your hands. CB hosts the “actual wallet” (i.e. your account) they create and (physically) manage for you. Just like your bank has an account for you and a vault with an amount of money equal to the amount of money in your account. You can use the bank’s “wallet” when you write a check. When you deposit money or a check, the bank adds money to your account (the bank’s “wallet”).

One does not preclude the other, nor are they redundant. One is more convenient than the other, depending on what you mean by “convenient” for the thing you want to do with the money.

Just like you don’t think opening another account with another bank is “redundant”, so is having a coinbase account for trading or purchasing convenience, and a cold/offline wallet like your Nano for saving or protecting those funds from theft risk or just to help you not impulse spend it, or to spend/buy crypto in person, privately between you and the other person.

@mike808 lol I know that. I just said that, just different wording. I simply asked if Nano S had an/is an exchange like Coinbase. I’ll check into it on the Nano site.
Thanks, again.

@Tadlem43 The Nano is just a wallet. There is no exchange part of it.

@sleuth Yeah, the MLM part definitely seemed apparent. I was reading up on Pi over on Reddit and their opinions seem kinda all over the place. Some are definitely in the “ignore, it’s just MLM” camp. Others point out that there’s no cost involved, so “not really MLM”.
As far as what I could understand from the whitepaper, the earning team only goes down to who you recruit, so I guess it’s kind of a single LM

as @hoosier said, it is free (I did sign up), so I guess I’ll just sign in everyday to keep earning (I mean, I do sign in here to get my meh face every day…)

I’ll look into Helium, just to keep learning. I have mostly gone after Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Litecoin. Plus all of the rewards that Coinbase gives for learning about other cryptos.

@mike808 Yeah, the tax issues are kind of a long-term worry I have. I already hate taxes enough! So far I have mostly been treating my cryptos more like stock investments. Just hoping to earn then cash out (and pay capital gains).
Haven’t started looking at ways to use crypto specifically as a currency for buying things. All that mess you described seems painful.

@mike808 @thejackalope I’m right there with you on that! I’m looking to use it more for investment, as well. (and maybe a touch of security when the dollar crashes!)

@railek Yeah, I haven’t been on long enough to get much nagging. I signed up too since it seemed easy to get into. We’ll see if it ever goes mainstream and gets worth something. When you were using it, did they have the PC version of the app? I’m thinking if I start getting nagged on my phone, I can just delete the app and use the desktop version, since I can ignore alerts on there more easily.