I know a lot of people that have earned a bachelor's and master's program online. Many state schools (California) offer them. I have been looking at one particular one as of late. BTW, I work in education and no one I know has ever had their degrees questioned because the were online. In every case I have ever known, it does not say "online" on the degree, only the school name. The only thing I would advise, like @lotsofgoats mentioned, make sure they are an actual physical university.
@conandlibrarian it's slightly frowned upon in my field (library science), although not officially. It's much easier to get a job if you went to the campus.
When applying for jobs, they know which schools tend to be online, and can easily tell when you were working in California but got your degree in Texas, for example.
But, that totally depends on your situation too though.
I would not have gotten my current job if I went to an online masters program.
@luvche21 really? I am in library science as well, and I have two co-workers that got their MLIS online. Both did San Jose State University's 100% online program. I am in higher ed. Not saying you are not right in certain situations, it's just not my experience.
@conandlibrarian Well, I know plenty here that have online degrees - most of them were already working here since they were students, or have been waiting for a job much longer than me. I'm at an academic institution as well.
I'll have to think more on it, but I don't think any of the faculty librarians here (at least in my department) have a degree from an online institution - the ones that I know of are all staff. I'm also pretty new here, so I don't know everyone.
I just know that if I would have had an online degree going up against another candidate who had gone to an actual school, I likely would not have received the job I did when I did.
What's your position? I'm a music cataloger, and luckily snagged a faculty position, so I get to do music/technical services research, which is loads of fun. I always thought cataloging would be the most horrible job, but I absolutely love it!
Every time I see your username I think of this lovely image:
@luvche21 I am on the staff side of things, as it is something I love to do. We have a very small staff considering the school size (15,000 students, 3 FTE librarians, 4 PT), and we all try to pitch in where needed. We are part of a three school district. The easiest way to explain my position, is that I manage several areas and employees. I do deal with our reserves collection and have to do some "on the fly" cataloging. I like it as it keeps my skills up. I can't imagine becoming faculty, I see what they go through on our campus and think it is way too much of a headache. The job you are doing sounds very interesting though, I would love to learn more about it.
@conandlibrarian It sounds like you have your finger in about every pie there!
My library is pretty fascinating, and is quite large for the size of my university. There are somewhere between 10-15 faculty catalogers alone (in different specializations).
For music cataloging, there are 2 faculty catalogers, plus 1 FTE, 1 PTE, and about 15 students. Since I'm not the only music cataloger, I focus on non-religious music scores, and books about music. I've just started a project to catalog our backlog of old LPs.
My library is pretty famous in the library world (for training, being on the bubble of new rules/techniques, and for writing handbooks in cataloging. ...is it even ok to say that we're famous in cataloging? Being famous in something so niche isn't really famous, right?
I always thought cataloging would be horribly boring, but really all I do is play with music all day and get paid for it, so that's pretty cool!
I completed my Masters in Teaching utilizing a state college's online program. About 90% of my coursework was online and I had a few classes that I actually had to attend in person.
Here's the rundown from conversations I've had with others in my field (Education)
In the end...what you need is the piece of paper, most places don't care where you got it from. The educational field anyway, is heavily focused on qualifications (license) but most of the actual hiring is done through conversations and an analysis of your skill set you bring to the table.
Online programs are usually cheaper than their in person counterparts. With that cheap price tag, typically comes difficulties with ease of access to your professor, a lack of true content engagement, and a lack of availability to networking with others in your area. BUT, they are usually more flexible with academic expectations and I could complete coursework while sitting at home.
In person courses usually provide more opportunities to meet other professionals and develop stronger relationships with them. You are able to have conversations with professors instead of emails (unless you include Skype/Zoom/Google Hangout).
Certain fields are probably better suited for in person programs, while others could easily be obtained online. It really depends on what you want to get out of the program and how much money you are willing to part with.
@studerc I feel education is a lot different than business. My wife is a teacher and her Masters was an online masters from a college with a physical presence. With the teachers union it doesn't matter where the degree is from. They are all seen the same on the pay increase scale. So from an economic standpoint in teaching the cheapest way is the best because it is just a piece of paper in the contract.
What do you expect to do with your MBA? Others have already mentioned that you should only consider online universities that have physical locations as well, which I certainly agree with.
However, an MBA is a different thing, and in most cases, not only does it matter as to whether or not the school has a physical presence, but even what the school is. They don't call an MBA from Harvard a golden ticket just to be clever.
If the pursuance of the MBA is to further yourself in your current employment, or to provide expertise and gravitas in a new business (whether yours, or in partnership with others), then it's less important as to where the degree comes from. The granting university (or college) is more important in some fields, and less in others, and more important in some locales than others as well.
@Shrdlu more so for the "gravitas in a new business." Looking into an MBA with a certificate attached. Either MBA with Project Management or Finance or Entrepreneurship. Also, super pumped that it will delay my student loan payments ;-) add to the mountain of government debt.
Looking into a few Cal-State programs, a school in Texas, SNHU (thanks for the brainwashing commercials on adult swim), and a couple random mid-west schools.
I am making sure to check their accreditation, general street cred, and statistics.
@connorbush I see that others have suggested you try the physical school first, and you may find that to be better. You might also consider visiting a couple of them, as well. Cal State Fullerton used to have a good business program (it's been YEARS since I cared, but I'd imagine it was still pretty decent).
Are you a CA resident? That would help (of course). I used to keep a list of which online programs were worthy, but that was when I still cared (I've been retired since Feb 1, 2006). You might find a mix of physical school and online studies works out best.
You also must investigate the school, and the onus is on you, here. Many for profit universities make promises about their programs that are just not backed up in reality. A campus that is only online is bad, and you should not consider any of them. Check for graduation rates, employment in the field statistics, and outside reviews.
Yes, I saw above you said that you were doing this, but I'm emphasizing it anyway. There's nothing makes me so sad as someone who is paying off thousands of dollars in student loans, and working at someplace like Starbuck's to do it (because their degree is worthless).
@connorbush Have little insight into online MBA or other programs, esp compared to what others have mentioned. However, i hate to see someone go back to school, esp in an expensive program, taking on mountains of additional debt, partly to put off current repayment of existing student debt. I know that temptation.
If i were in your situation, i would not only consider all the perspectives offered here, but whether an additional degree was likely to ever pay for itself. If you are currently employed with opportunities, or have some business ideas, you might be better served by doing something from edx or cousera that you can use this second. Unfortunately, part of what one learns from being in school is "how to be a student," not all that helpful in biz.
(Among the wealthier people i know is one who operates auto junkyards. Started from scratch. Community college. Smarter and way way richer than me.)
Also consider if you can meet people/engage in discussions that offer the same sort of stimulation an mba program can give, without paying for school. The social and f2f interactions are particularly important in mba and law programs, and the "standing" of a program matters. If you cant do a "good" one (by whatever measure), do you wanna spend the time/money?
I know some people who have gone to good on-campus mba or executive mba programs (SMU, UT) and who, decades later, wondered if they had really gained so much as opposed to working in their fields and taking single selected courses. Hard to say. If you can do something like Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, whatever, go now!
But the extra debt....shit. fwiw, altho WGU is online only, it's accredited, state-supported, not-for-profit, and is an incredible bargain. If you just need to power your way thru an mba syllabus and coursework for your own benefit, WGU is an option you might not owe on forever. If you need a program's prestige and potential for social and intellectual connections, take your time to prepare and decide.
And remember, once you have the degree, so, it might seem, will everyone else.
@connorbush Another thought...my younger brother has a successful legal practice in real-estate and contracts. He went to a night/weekend law school in KY, because he was working, and married w 2 toddlers at that time. His career went well in the early years, in part, due to his undergrad degree from Yale.
When he is asked about Yale, he says it's gold for friendships and connections, and instant rep. People look at the name and grant him cred. The quality of the education is variable by department (you have to work at flunking out). It's that aura that sells. "He must be awesome, he went to Yale."
If you can attach to a name university, great. The hardest parts may be getting in and paying. If not - well i know nothing of employment demographics, but suspect there are too many lawyers and mba's for all of them to be getting back what they put in. Not to say you can't get you $ worth, just make sure you do.
I have heard that online MBA classes are a serious pain in the ass. You're required to do group projects, which means you all have to be online at the same time. Which makes it easier for students to not participate.
Also, you have to meet a quota for participation. There's an online forum and you have to reply and make posts.
For me, I'd rather just sit in a class room. From my understanding, there is more work to do for online courses.
@Kevin@connorbush I received my MBA online through CTU. It worked for me for a number of reasons - working full time for part of it and then not working for 6 months due to breast cancer and a lot of surgeries. I was able to do the coursework without having to be anywhere at specific times, which was good. The information received was quite good and I feel like I learned a great deal. The group projects, however, sucked ass. If you end up going this route, I suggest immediately taking charge of any and all group projects so that you can have some control over timing, direction, and work quality.
@AnnaB I absolutely agree about taking control of the group projects.
@connorbush, you don't have to be online at the same time as the group, it can easily be coordinated with assignments and deadlines, just like any type of project management. However, if you want it done and to get a good grade on it YOU being the project manager is always a good thing. If you can, find someone to track with - take the same classes at the same time, then you have a buddy for those team situations.
@zahita459 yeah especially if the person you track with is actually local and you can sit down and hammer out projects in person. Much easier than trading crap back and forth in drop box or whatever - although that is doable especially if you spend sometime on the phone.
The more real world experience you have the less important where the degree is from. If you are going into a MBA program directly after you receive your undergraduate degree then it may matter. A college with a physical preference will always have more weight vs an exclusive online college.
Also depends where you want to work. Typically the larger the company the more it matters. Mediocre Corp may be more willing to accept a guy with an online MBA degree than Google would. Bigger companies can be more exclusive and more selective.
Regardless it will be better than not having one. Even if it only helps you get in the door in a position that the minimum requirement is only a bachelor's.
@rokamortis@connorbush But a fuku MBA (hey @hollboll can you guys send him one? - MBA certificate, I know the fukus are sold out) would only have credibility if @snapster signed it and his signature was both legible and verifiable as head octopus at Meh University LOL
(1) Many top MBA programs virtually demand you have real world work experience - in other words that you're not straight out of undergrad. The exceptions are exceptional students.
(2) Related to (1) - that work experience is what makes you a valuable resource to the program and a wiser vessel for the learning (you'll get a lot more out of it).
(3) Related to (1) again - In a great MBA program you learn as much from your peers as you do from your professors.
(4) Earning an MBA is not a solo experience. I suppose it might be done well with the right technology and professors. But it is an inherently interactive, teamwork thing - much better suited to face to face experience.
(5) If you want a job in a firm that recognizes and value of an MBA then it can lead to good things. However, an MBA can be a highly analytical thing... to fault. If you hanker for entrepreneurship (not something to be taken lightly) - then very carefully choose your MBA program. One that has a record of good results in that area.
(6) (Only half-jokingly) They say "if you want to ruin an entrepreneur, send them to MBA school." Another variant if you might be a professional student... "If you want to go into the skilled practice of business, get an MBA. If you want to ruin an MBA, get a PhD (in business)."
I have mixed feelings about my MBA. Not so much about the MBA itself (from a top 10 program). Rather that it might not have been the ideal match for my interests.
An MBA can be very expensive. Be sure you are doing it for the right reasons. Talk to employment recruiters. Talk to people who have an MBA. There are plenty of people who have been plenty successful without an MBA. It can bring a nice set of skills and tools, but as noted above, after several years your performance and experience will be far more important.
@RedOak Hey I resemble that comment about MBA's and PhD's LOL (in my defense though I also started an NGO in 1999 that is still going strong, ran some outdoor adventure programs, saved one from almost certain demise in and it is still going strong 25+ years later, prior to going back to school so that has to count for something - right?)
@Kidsandliz there's an exception to every rule, right? ;-)
But you can't honestly tell me you have not heard that MBA-->PhD crack, right? ;-) (A variation that also appears not to apply to you: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach") Clearly unfair to the teaching profession, apologies, could not resist. And I sheepishly realize there are several acknowledged teachers here on Meh. Folks who make these cracks are clearly jealous of the great and fulfilling life that appears to be teaching.
But seriously, by far I learned the most (and more importantly, that knowledge was cemented in my brain) from professors who had practiced their discipline. As matter of fact, now that I think back, I'm having trouble recalling a single B-school professor who had not worked in "the real world".
I teach MBA's - in the past face to face and right now online as an adjunct while I am looking for full time tenure track employment again - was fired for having several cancers in one year - illegal and lawsuit filed (have taught online MBA programs at 2 schools now - one sucked and one is OK). I echo what several others have said.
1) Why do you need it? If you just need the piece of paper to get promoted then (other than staying away from the for profits) won't matter much where you get it. If you need it for the knowledge then it matters. If you need it for future job hunting and your work experience isn't stellar then it matters.
2) Get it from a school that somehow won't differentiate you from their on ground program. Some do some don't. Now is someone is paying attention they will notice that you are taking classes in FL but live in Seattle, but maybe not.
3) Get it from a school that has a respected on ground program and make sure that it will come from the college of business, not continuing education or extension. There are many good state schools that have them as well as private ones. UCLA, for example, has an online MBA program and their on ground one is reasonably high in the rankings. Florida Institute of Technology (private and originally set up for NASA so heavy on the engineering) does too. Many more than there used to be
3) Depending on how busy you are watch out for the 5-8 week terms. You tend to get fire hosed. If you are really busy that may not work well.
4) If you are mid career an executive MBA would likely be better. Each term I have a handful of students who would be better served in an executive MBA program. I love having them in my class because of what they can offer, but they'd learn more personally themselves if they were with mid career peers.
5) As someone else said, the peer connections you make and out of classroom things in ground MBA programs offer is not duplicated online. Those out of classroom things generally are some of the things MBA's say were the more important long term benefits that came from their program. Online generally doesn't do internships either. Many people then have job offers from those internships. Gives them an inside track.
6) If you are not area bound, know where you want to work and try to get into the best MBA program there is in that area. Recruiters tend to do less cross country recruiting except, perhaps at select schools.
7) If the MBA program does not require the G-MAT they can be of the if you are breathing and have a BA/BS from somewhere credible we will admit you. The online program I currently teach for does not require the G-MAT, but they are also picky about who they admit so I seldom get loser students in my class. They also fire hose students in the two course intro sequence and flunk people out. Unfortunately for me I teach the second course in the sequence so I am part of that weeding out process. Thankfully I am not teaching the first course in the sequence because then I'd be fire hosing people trying to figure out how the online platform works, adjusting to being a student again (and you tend to lose adult status as a student), etc.
8) If they require the G-MAT for Pete's sake study for the stupid test. It is an achievement test of high school algebra and geometry with plenty of "trick" questions and questions that have short cut answers if you know the shortcuts (which the study classes will teach you - either by books to study from or actual classes depending on what you can afford), story problems, logic, English use (including esoteric vocab words), etc. Put aside 3-4 months, spend around 10-12 hours a week reminding yourself of the subject matter. If you are rich take a Kaplan (or other) review class and then use the online practice materials a bunch of hours a week. Likely you can bring your score up a good 100 points if you are a bit rusty on some of this stuff prior to studying.
9) MBA programs are strong in different areas. Make sure you go to one that is strong in your area. If you are interested in project management and they only offer one course that is not going to do much for you. If you want SIx Sigma or be able to sit for the HR certification test, CPA exam, etc. make sure they offer the courses that will allow you to do that. Where I teach heaven help the person who wants general management or HR. The place is so full of engineers and geeks that the focus is more on IS, project management, finance, and accounting. Look at that carefully.
10) If you are going for online ask about where the faculty got their PhD degrees (and online is often mostly taught by adjuncts. Washington State, for example isn't - they just have adjunct grade for them, but many places most of the online faculty are adjuncts). If it includes online for profits you are likely to get a watered down education.
11) In many online programs the faculty do not control the syllabus, assignments, book, projects, discussion questions. In the course I teach right now I am shaking my head why we are teaching the finance portion with a financial calculator with the recorded lectures but the cases require them to do it in excel. Makes no sense. Some of what you might have to do is petty BS, sometimes discussion questions are inane. Deal with it. Likely the faculty member teaching the class did not design it and can't change it. You will likely have a head count of posts in the weekly discussions. If you post early in the week then the "good and obvious" comments aren't yet taken (there often is a limit to the number of different ways someone can respond - I solve that problem by asking additional questions in the discussions so people have things to say but not all faculty do that).
12) Internet going down, computer problems, work responsibilities are generally not accepted as excuses to get extensions (often school rules) because you "had all week to do it". Think that through with your projected workload, family life, personal life over the course period. I find it takes more time to teach an online class than a face to face one and likely the student will find it takes more time to take one. You are largely doing the content independent study helped out by video lectures and then asking questions for things you don't understand of the faculty member, often in an online forum. It might take a day or two to get your question answered. That drives some people insane and depending on the question may result in you having less time to get something done. Faculty are not required to check the class daily (that being said I do even though I am only required to check in once every 48 hours).
Online programs are one extreme. Only in the on ground classroom is the other. There are hybrid programs too - A 3 day weekend every 3 weeks and the rest online (a typical executive MBA program format), an evening in the classroom every other week and the rest on line, some you can switch at will which classes you take online and which you take on ground. Some programs are designed for the part timer, some for the full timer. Some do not use group projects online others do. Check into all that stuff so you aren't blindsided by something you do not want and can get into a setting that you think you will be more successful.
@Kidsandliz hey @thumperchick could you please go into my post above and reduce that oddly bold and large type to something in line with the rest of the post. No idea how it got like that. Thanks
I got my BS in CS from a state school (in the state I'm in) but the campus is 2-3 hours away. I spoke with the Dean of the CS program and she worked out so I could be an online student (they really didn't have many in my group, maybe 4 or 5). I did a lot of online and skype type meetings for that, attending classes via skype and presentations via skype. I was actually part of an on ground class for the majority of my major classes. It was an interesting experience. My associates was from a Comm College and it was all online (but the degree doesn't say online).
I am actually looking into getting my MBA as well. It will be an online MBA as getting into a classroom between work, kids, and kid activities doesn't lend itself well. I would love to do an in class, but I don't want to risk missing events with my kids.
Anyways here are some questions and brief answers I have asked various different schools. Depending on which state you are in, I may already have answers for state schools there. My company is located in a few states so I have looked in each of those as going to campus for a visit could be combined with a work trip (cheaper for me that way).
My questions I have about the program up front: What is the full cost? Some had flat costs and others were per degree.
Does it require any time away from home (either on campus or trip)? This was an interesting item for a lot of the online programs. This solves some of the on ground networking issues faced by online. One of the programs, you spent a week at the very beginning on campus for orientation. Another you spent the first week of each year on campus. A few others had learning trips around the world that you had to take 2 or 3 of them for a week at a time.
How are the classes laid out and structured? Some are you take as many classes as you can each term (term is 5, 8, 10, or 16 weeks). Others you take classes in certain orders at certain times.
How long does it take to complete? Most seem to be about 2 years at my pace.
What focus's are available? Or are there any dual degrees available online with the MBA (whatever field you are in)? If so, what would that potentially add to cost/time? Some do this and you can add two or three classes for a double Masters.
Does it require the GMAT/GRE? Depending on time spent in the career field and Bachelors, some waive this.
Is there any financial aid/scholarships available?
Does it require any pre-reqs? Since my associates is a CIS (business) but my BS is CS (science), some colleges require extra classes as preregs.
I have worked with a few very influential HR Directors all of them told me that although the degrees are more similar now than in the past anything with the strictly online or majority online (the school not specific program) like SNHU, Phoenix, WGU, etc. tend to get looked down upon. Brick and Mortar is definitely the way to go.
@brdubb@connorbush Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the AACSB - that is critical. Those programs went through major flaming hoop jumping to meet criteria to be considered quality and then to survive the re-accreditation every 5 years (I have been on committees twice that that had to deal with the re-accreditation at the schools I was teaching at. Major PITA). There are online programs associated with on ground programs that have that accreditation. There is an alternative accreditation out there but it really doesn't count for anything.
SNHU (which does have some on ground) and WGU don't have high academic standards. WGU is more independent study than anything else and your mentor gets paid a bonus if you graduate (in my view that is a conflict of interest with quality). U of Phoenix is for profit, is having problems and doesn't have high academic standards. Several very large for profits have bit the dust recently - this has been happening without much in the way of warning and the students are then left hanging in the breeze. Also it is generally far more expensive to get a degree through a for profit (although likely Penn, Harvard, Stanford, etc, would top those fees), they don't have career placement services...and their collective reputations are in the toilet. People often mistake for profit with diploma mills. While some are, many are not but with most their standards are so low that you can get a degree without getting much of an education and be only marginally literate.
I did my MBA at a school in my city. I'd highly recommend doing the same if at all possible - interactive class discussions are where I got the most value out of my program, and that's so much easier to do in person than it is to do online.
@PhotoJim I would agree - and that is from the point of view of someone who teaches/has taught both online and face to face. There is far more valuable discussion, etc. in the face to face classroom than online for likely a number of reasons, although occasionally there are exceptions but unfortunately they seem to be few and far between -even if you ask the same questions online that you'd ask in class on the same material or case. Certainly one biggie is far too many online students make the minimum required superficial posts (some just minutes before the thread closes) and then never check back in to read what anyone else has posted, let alone respond to them - that does not help discussion either (faculty can track student online behavior in most LMS's)
no to all internet degrees unless they're from an actual physical university, and even then I'd probably pass anyway
@Lotsofgoats Got it. Thanks!
I know a lot of people that have earned a bachelor's and master's program online. Many state schools (California) offer them. I have been looking at one particular one as of late. BTW, I work in education and no one I know has ever had their degrees questioned because the were online. In every case I have ever known, it does not say "online" on the degree, only the school name. The only thing I would advise, like @lotsofgoats mentioned, make sure they are an actual physical university.
@conandlibrarian Thank you, I appreciate your perspective.
@conandlibrarian it's slightly frowned upon in my field (library science), although not officially. It's much easier to get a job if you went to the campus.
When applying for jobs, they know which schools tend to be online, and can easily tell when you were working in California but got your degree in Texas, for example.
But, that totally depends on your situation too though.
I would not have gotten my current job if I went to an online masters program.
@luvche21 really? I am in library science as well, and I have two co-workers that got their MLIS online. Both did San Jose State University's 100% online program. I am in higher ed. Not saying you are not right in certain situations, it's just not my experience.
@conandlibrarian Well, I know plenty here that have online degrees - most of them were already working here since they were students, or have been waiting for a job much longer than me. I'm at an academic institution as well.
I'll have to think more on it, but I don't think any of the faculty librarians here (at least in my department) have a degree from an online institution - the ones that I know of are all staff. I'm also pretty new here, so I don't know everyone.
I just know that if I would have had an online degree going up against another candidate who had gone to an actual school, I likely would not have received the job I did when I did.
What's your position? I'm a music cataloger, and luckily snagged a faculty position, so I get to do music/technical services research, which is loads of fun. I always thought cataloging would be the most horrible job, but I absolutely love it!
Every time I see your username I think of this lovely image:
@luvche21 I am on the staff side of things, as it is something I love to do. We have a very small staff considering the school size (15,000 students, 3 FTE librarians, 4 PT), and we all try to pitch in where needed. We are part of a three school district. The easiest way to explain my position, is that I manage several areas and employees. I do deal with our reserves collection and have to do some "on the fly" cataloging. I like it as it keeps my skills up. I can't imagine becoming faculty, I see what they go through on our campus and think it is way too much of a headache. The job you are doing sounds very interesting though, I would love to learn more about it.
@conandlibrarian It sounds like you have your finger in about every pie there!
My library is pretty fascinating, and is quite large for the size of my university. There are somewhere between 10-15 faculty catalogers alone (in different specializations).
For music cataloging, there are 2 faculty catalogers, plus 1 FTE, 1 PTE, and about 15 students. Since I'm not the only music cataloger, I focus on non-religious music scores, and books about music. I've just started a project to catalog our backlog of old LPs.
My library is pretty famous in the library world (for training, being on the bubble of new rules/techniques, and for writing handbooks in cataloging. ...is it even ok to say that we're famous in cataloging? Being famous in something so niche isn't really famous, right?
I always thought cataloging would be horribly boring, but really all I do is play with music all day and get paid for it, so that's pretty cool!
I completed my Masters in Teaching utilizing a state college's online program. About 90% of my coursework was online and I had a few classes that I actually had to attend in person.
Here's the rundown from conversations I've had with others in my field (Education)
In the end...what you need is the piece of paper, most places don't care where you got it from. The educational field anyway, is heavily focused on qualifications (license) but most of the actual hiring is done through conversations and an analysis of your skill set you bring to the table.
Online programs are usually cheaper than their in person counterparts. With that cheap price tag, typically comes difficulties with ease of access to your professor, a lack of true content engagement, and a lack of availability to networking with others in your area. BUT, they are usually more flexible with academic expectations and I could complete coursework while sitting at home.
In person courses usually provide more opportunities to meet other professionals and develop stronger relationships with them. You are able to have conversations with professors instead of emails (unless you include Skype/Zoom/Google Hangout).
Certain fields are probably better suited for in person programs, while others could easily be obtained online. It really depends on what you want to get out of the program and how much money you are willing to part with.
@studerc thank you!
@studerc I feel education is a lot different than business. My wife is a teacher and her Masters was an online masters from a college with a physical presence. With the teachers union it doesn't matter where the degree is from. They are all seen the same on the pay increase scale. So from an economic standpoint in teaching the cheapest way is the best because it is just a piece of paper in the contract.
What do you expect to do with your MBA? Others have already mentioned that you should only consider online universities that have physical locations as well, which I certainly agree with.
However, an MBA is a different thing, and in most cases, not only does it matter as to whether or not the school has a physical presence, but even what the school is. They don't call an MBA from Harvard a golden ticket just to be clever.
If the pursuance of the MBA is to further yourself in your current employment, or to provide expertise and gravitas in a new business (whether yours, or in partnership with others), then it's less important as to where the degree comes from. The granting university (or college) is more important in some fields, and less in others, and more important in some locales than others as well.
Details. I need them.
@Shrdlu more so for the "gravitas in a new business." Looking into an MBA with a certificate attached. Either MBA with Project Management or Finance or Entrepreneurship. Also, super pumped that it will delay my student loan payments ;-) add to the mountain of government debt.
Looking into a few Cal-State programs, a school in Texas, SNHU (thanks for the brainwashing commercials on adult swim), and a couple random mid-west schools.
I am making sure to check their accreditation, general street cred, and statistics.
@connorbush I see that others have suggested you try the physical school first, and you may find that to be better. You might also consider visiting a couple of them, as well. Cal State Fullerton used to have a good business program (it's been YEARS since I cared, but I'd imagine it was still pretty decent).
Are you a CA resident? That would help (of course). I used to keep a list of which online programs were worthy, but that was when I still cared (I've been retired since Feb 1, 2006). You might find a mix of physical school and online studies works out best.
You also must investigate the school, and the onus is on you, here. Many for profit universities make promises about their programs that are just not backed up in reality. A campus that is only online is bad, and you should not consider any of them. Check for graduation rates, employment in the field statistics, and outside reviews.
Yes, I saw above you said that you were doing this, but I'm emphasizing it anyway. There's nothing makes me so sad as someone who is paying off thousands of dollars in student loans, and working at someplace like Starbuck's to do it (because their degree is worthless).
@Shrdlu I am most certainly not considering for profit schools. I like your idea of blended studies. I think that university of La Verne offers this.
@connorbush
Have little insight into online MBA or other programs, esp compared to what others have mentioned. However, i hate to see someone go back to school, esp in an expensive program, taking on mountains of additional debt, partly to put off current repayment of existing student debt. I know that temptation.
If i were in your situation, i would not only consider all the perspectives offered here, but whether an additional degree was likely to ever pay for itself. If you are currently employed with opportunities, or have some business ideas, you might be better served by doing something from edx or cousera that you can use this second. Unfortunately, part of what one learns from being in school is "how to be a student," not all that helpful in biz.
(Among the wealthier people i know is one who operates auto junkyards. Started from scratch. Community college. Smarter and way way richer than me.)
Also consider if you can meet people/engage in discussions that offer the same sort of stimulation an mba program can give, without paying for school. The social and f2f interactions are particularly important in mba and law programs, and the "standing" of a program matters. If you cant do a "good" one (by whatever measure), do you wanna spend the time/money?
I know some people who have gone to good on-campus mba or executive mba programs (SMU, UT) and who, decades later, wondered if they had really gained so much as opposed to working in their fields and taking single selected courses. Hard to say. If you can do something like Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, whatever, go now!
But the extra debt....shit. fwiw, altho WGU is online only, it's accredited, state-supported, not-for-profit, and is an incredible bargain. If you just need to power your way thru an mba syllabus and coursework for your own benefit, WGU is an option you might not owe on forever. If you need a program's prestige and potential for social and intellectual connections, take your time to prepare and decide.
And remember, once you have the degree, so, it might seem, will everyone else.
@f00l Unique and appreciated perspective. Necessary questions to ask myself.
@connorbush
Another thought...my younger brother has a successful legal practice in real-estate and contracts. He went to a night/weekend law school in KY, because he was working, and married w 2 toddlers at that time. His career went well in the early years, in part, due to his undergrad degree from Yale.
When he is asked about Yale, he says it's gold for friendships and connections, and instant rep. People look at the name and grant him cred. The quality of the education is variable by department (you have to work at flunking out). It's that aura that sells. "He must be awesome, he went to Yale."
If you can attach to a name university, great. The hardest parts may be getting in and paying. If not - well i know nothing of employment demographics, but suspect there are too many lawyers and mba's for all of them to be getting back what they put in. Not to say you can't get you $ worth, just make sure you do.
Save yourself the time and money. Just put that you have an MBA from a mid-range school on your resume and play the odds.
@DaveInSoCal Hmm.. On a strictly odds basis, this might be completely worth it.
@connorbush I'm sure you're joking on this. Just in case anyone is considering it, it works out very badly when someone checks, down the road.
@Shrdlu I was joking, so your certainty is confirmed.
I have heard that online MBA classes are a serious pain in the ass. You're required to do group projects, which means you all have to be online at the same time. Which makes it easier for students to not participate.
Also, you have to meet a quota for participation. There's an online forum and you have to reply and make posts.
For me, I'd rather just sit in a class room. From my understanding, there is more work to do for online courses.
@Kevin hmm, interesting perspective. I will have to look into this. Thank you.
@Kevin @connorbush I received my MBA online through CTU. It worked for me for a number of reasons - working full time for part of it and then not working for 6 months due to breast cancer and a lot of surgeries. I was able to do the coursework without having to be anywhere at specific times, which was good. The information received was quite good and I feel like I learned a great deal. The group projects, however, sucked ass. If you end up going this route, I suggest immediately taking charge of any and all group projects so that you can have some control over timing, direction, and work quality.
@AnnaB
I absolutely agree about taking control of the group projects.
@connorbush, you don't have to be online at the same time as the group, it can easily be coordinated with assignments and deadlines, just like any type of project management. However, if you want it done and to get a good grade on it YOU being the project manager is always a good thing. If you can, find someone to track with - take the same classes at the same time, then you have a buddy for those team situations.
Good luck!
@zahita459 Thanks!
@zahita459 yeah especially if the person you track with is actually local and you can sit down and hammer out projects in person. Much easier than trading crap back and forth in drop box or whatever - although that is doable especially if you spend sometime on the phone.
@Kevin That's true in some, and you don't have to all be online together. Asynchronous works really well if you have a good group.
The more real world experience you have the less important where the degree is from. If you are going into a MBA program directly after you receive your undergraduate degree then it may matter. A college with a physical preference will always have more weight vs an exclusive online college.
Also depends where you want to work. Typically the larger the company the more it matters. Mediocre Corp may be more willing to accept a guy with an online MBA degree than Google would. Bigger companies can be more exclusive and more selective.
Regardless it will be better than not having one. Even if it only helps you get in the door in a position that the minimum requirement is only a bachelor's.
Read The Personal MBA and you may be satisfied.
Maybe you will get an MBA in a fukubukuro.
@rokamortis @connorbush But a fuku MBA (hey @hollboll can you guys send him one? - MBA certificate, I know the fukus are sold out) would only have credibility if @snapster signed it and his signature was both legible and verifiable as head octopus at Meh University LOL
Some random MBA thoughts...
(1) Many top MBA programs virtually demand you have real world work experience - in other words that you're not straight out of undergrad. The exceptions are exceptional students.
(2) Related to (1) - that work experience is what makes you a valuable resource to the program and a wiser vessel for the learning (you'll get a lot more out of it).
(3) Related to (1) again - In a great MBA program you learn as much from your peers as you do from your professors.
(4) Earning an MBA is not a solo experience. I suppose it might be done well with the right technology and professors. But it is an inherently interactive, teamwork thing - much better suited to face to face experience.
(5) If you want a job in a firm that recognizes and value of an MBA then it can lead to good things. However, an MBA can be a highly analytical thing... to fault. If you hanker for entrepreneurship (not something to be taken lightly) - then very carefully choose your MBA program. One that has a record of good results in that area.
(6) (Only half-jokingly) They say "if you want to ruin an entrepreneur, send them to MBA school." Another variant if you might be a professional student... "If you want to go into the skilled practice of business, get an MBA. If you want to ruin an MBA, get a PhD (in business)."
I have mixed feelings about my MBA. Not so much about the MBA itself (from a top 10 program). Rather that it might not have been the ideal match for my interests.
An MBA can be very expensive. Be sure you are doing it for the right reasons. Talk to employment recruiters. Talk to people who have an MBA. There are plenty of people who have been plenty successful without an MBA. It can bring a nice set of skills and tools, but as noted above, after several years your performance and experience will be far more important.
@RedOak Thanks!!!!! I love that your answer stems from personal experience.
@RedOak Hey I resemble that comment about MBA's and PhD's LOL (in my defense though I also started an NGO in 1999 that is still going strong, ran some outdoor adventure programs, saved one from almost certain demise in and it is still going strong 25+ years later, prior to going back to school so that has to count for something - right?)
@Kidsandliz there's an exception to every rule, right? ;-)
But you can't honestly tell me you have not heard that MBA-->PhD crack, right? ;-) (A variation that also appears not to apply to you: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach") Clearly unfair to the teaching profession, apologies, could not resist. And I sheepishly realize there are several acknowledged teachers here on Meh. Folks who make these cracks are clearly jealous of the great and fulfilling life that appears to be teaching.
But seriously, by far I learned the most (and more importantly, that knowledge was cemented in my brain) from professors who had practiced their discipline. As matter of fact, now that I think back, I'm having trouble recalling a single B-school professor who had not worked in "the real world".
@RedOak Actually I hadn't heard that one, but I have heard that a PhD = piled higher and deeper... (grin)
I teach MBA's - in the past face to face and right now online as an adjunct while I am looking for full time tenure track employment again - was fired for having several cancers in one year - illegal and lawsuit filed (have taught online MBA programs at 2 schools now - one sucked and one is OK). I echo what several others have said.
1) Why do you need it? If you just need the piece of paper to get promoted then (other than staying away from the for profits) won't matter much where you get it. If you need it for the knowledge then it matters. If you need it for future job hunting and your work experience isn't stellar then it matters.
2) Get it from a school that somehow won't differentiate you from their on ground program. Some do some don't. Now is someone is paying attention they will notice that you are taking classes in FL but live in Seattle, but maybe not.
3) Get it from a school that has a respected on ground program and make sure that it will come from the college of business, not continuing education or extension. There are many good state schools that have them as well as private ones. UCLA, for example, has an online MBA program and their on ground one is reasonably high in the rankings. Florida Institute of Technology (private and originally set up for NASA so heavy on the engineering) does too. Many more than there used to be
3) Depending on how busy you are watch out for the 5-8 week terms. You tend to get fire hosed. If you are really busy that may not work well.
4) If you are mid career an executive MBA would likely be better. Each term I have a handful of students who would be better served in an executive MBA program. I love having them in my class because of what they can offer, but they'd learn more personally themselves if they were with mid career peers.
5) As someone else said, the peer connections you make and out of classroom things in ground MBA programs offer is not duplicated online. Those out of classroom things generally are some of the things MBA's say were the more important long term benefits that came from their program. Online generally doesn't do internships either. Many people then have job offers from those internships. Gives them an inside track.
6) If you are not area bound, know where you want to work and try to get into the best MBA program there is in that area. Recruiters tend to do less cross country recruiting except, perhaps at select schools.
7) If the MBA program does not require the G-MAT they can be of the if you are breathing and have a BA/BS from somewhere credible we will admit you. The online program I currently teach for does not require the G-MAT, but they are also picky about who they admit so I seldom get loser students in my class. They also fire hose students in the two course intro sequence and flunk people out. Unfortunately for me I teach the second course in the sequence so I am part of that weeding out process. Thankfully I am not teaching the first course in the sequence because then I'd be fire hosing people trying to figure out how the online platform works, adjusting to being a student again (and you tend to lose adult status as a student), etc.
8) If they require the G-MAT for Pete's sake study for the stupid test. It is an achievement test of high school algebra and geometry with plenty of "trick" questions and questions that have short cut answers if you know the shortcuts (which the study classes will teach you - either by books to study from or actual classes depending on what you can afford), story problems, logic, English use (including esoteric vocab words), etc. Put aside 3-4 months, spend around 10-12 hours a week reminding yourself of the subject matter. If you are rich take a Kaplan (or other) review class and then use the online practice materials a bunch of hours a week. Likely you can bring your score up a good 100 points if you are a bit rusty on some of this stuff prior to studying.
9) MBA programs are strong in different areas. Make sure you go to one that is strong in your area. If you are interested in project management and they only offer one course that is not going to do much for you. If you want SIx Sigma or be able to sit for the HR certification test, CPA exam, etc. make sure they offer the courses that will allow you to do that. Where I teach heaven help the person who wants general management or HR. The place is so full of engineers and geeks that the focus is more on IS, project management, finance, and accounting. Look at that carefully.
10) If you are going for online ask about where the faculty got their PhD degrees (and online is often mostly taught by adjuncts. Washington State, for example isn't - they just have adjunct grade for them, but many places most of the online faculty are adjuncts). If it includes online for profits you are likely to get a watered down education.
11) In many online programs the faculty do not control the syllabus, assignments, book, projects, discussion questions. In the course I teach right now I am shaking my head why we are teaching the finance portion with a financial calculator with the recorded lectures but the cases require them to do it in excel. Makes no sense. Some of what you might have to do is petty BS, sometimes discussion questions are inane. Deal with it. Likely the faculty member teaching the class did not design it and can't change it. You will likely have a head count of posts in the weekly discussions. If you post early in the week then the "good and obvious" comments aren't yet taken (there often is a limit to the number of different ways someone can respond - I solve that problem by asking additional questions in the discussions so people have things to say but not all faculty do that).
12) Internet going down, computer problems, work responsibilities are generally not accepted as excuses to get extensions (often school rules) because you "had all week to do it". Think that through with your projected workload, family life, personal life over the course period. I find it takes more time to teach an online class than a face to face one and likely the student will find it takes more time to take one. You are largely doing the content independent study helped out by video lectures and then asking questions for things you don't understand of the faculty member, often in an online forum. It might take a day or two to get your question answered. That drives some people insane and depending on the question may result in you having less time to get something done. Faculty are not required to check the class daily (that being said I do even though I am only required to check in once every 48 hours).
Online programs are one extreme. Only in the on ground classroom is the other. There are hybrid programs too - A 3 day weekend every 3 weeks and the rest online (a typical executive MBA program format), an evening in the classroom every other week and the rest on line, some you can switch at will which classes you take online and which you take on ground. Some programs are designed for the part timer, some for the full timer. Some do not use group projects online others do. Check into all that stuff so you aren't blindsided by something you do not want and can get into a setting that you think you will be more successful.
@Kidsandliz Wow, thank you.
@Kidsandliz hey @thumperchick could you please go into my post above and reduce that oddly bold and large type to something in line with the rest of the post. No idea how it got like that. Thanks
@connorbush You are welcome
I got my BS in CS from a state school (in the state I'm in) but the campus is 2-3 hours away. I spoke with the Dean of the CS program and she worked out so I could be an online student (they really didn't have many in my group, maybe 4 or 5). I did a lot of online and skype type meetings for that, attending classes via skype and presentations via skype. I was actually part of an on ground class for the majority of my major classes. It was an interesting experience. My associates was from a Comm College and it was all online (but the degree doesn't say online).
I would definitely make sure whereever you get it from, is a brick and mortar school. Also make sure they have aacsb accreditation.
http://www.aacsb.edu/accreditation/accredited-members/global-listing
I am actually looking into getting my MBA as well. It will be an online MBA as getting into a classroom between work, kids, and kid activities doesn't lend itself well. I would love to do an in class, but I don't want to risk missing events with my kids.
Anyways here are some questions and brief answers I have asked various different schools. Depending on which state you are in, I may already have answers for state schools there. My company is located in a few states so I have looked in each of those as going to campus for a visit could be combined with a work trip (cheaper for me that way).
My questions I have about the program up front:
What is the full cost?
Some had flat costs and others were per degree.
Does it require any time away from home (either on campus or trip)?
This was an interesting item for a lot of the online programs. This solves some of the on ground networking issues faced by online. One of the programs, you spent a week at the very beginning on campus for orientation. Another you spent the first week of each year on campus. A few others had learning trips around the world that you had to take 2 or 3 of them for a week at a time.
How are the classes laid out and structured?
Some are you take as many classes as you can each term (term is 5, 8, 10, or 16 weeks). Others you take classes in certain orders at certain times.
How long does it take to complete?
Most seem to be about 2 years at my pace.
What focus's are available? Or are there any dual degrees available online with the MBA (whatever field you are in)? If so, what would that potentially add to cost/time?
Some do this and you can add two or three classes for a double Masters.
Does it require the GMAT/GRE? Depending on time spent in the career field and Bachelors, some waive this.
Is there any financial aid/scholarships available?
Does it require any pre-reqs?
Since my associates is a CIS (business) but my BS is CS (science), some colleges require extra classes as preregs.
I have worked with a few very influential HR Directors all of them told me that although the degrees are more similar now than in the past anything with the strictly online or majority online (the school not specific program) like SNHU, Phoenix, WGU, etc. tend to get looked down upon. Brick and Mortar is definitely the way to go.
@brdubb I like the work-trip idea!!
@brdubb @connorbush Oh yeah. I forgot to mention the AACSB - that is critical. Those programs went through major flaming hoop jumping to meet criteria to be considered quality and then to survive the re-accreditation every 5 years (I have been on committees twice that that had to deal with the re-accreditation at the schools I was teaching at. Major PITA). There are online programs associated with on ground programs that have that accreditation. There is an alternative accreditation out there but it really doesn't count for anything.
SNHU (which does have some on ground) and WGU don't have high academic standards. WGU is more independent study than anything else and your mentor gets paid a bonus if you graduate (in my view that is a conflict of interest with quality). U of Phoenix is for profit, is having problems and doesn't have high academic standards. Several very large for profits have bit the dust recently - this has been happening without much in the way of warning and the students are then left hanging in the breeze. Also it is generally far more expensive to get a degree through a for profit (although likely Penn, Harvard, Stanford, etc, would top those fees), they don't have career placement services...and their collective reputations are in the toilet. People often mistake for profit with diploma mills. While some are, many are not but with most their standards are so low that you can get a degree without getting much of an education and be only marginally literate.
I did my MBA at a school in my city. I'd highly recommend doing the same if at all possible - interactive class discussions are where I got the most value out of my program, and that's so much easier to do in person than it is to do online.
@PhotoJim I would agree - and that is from the point of view of someone who teaches/has taught both online and face to face. There is far more valuable discussion, etc. in the face to face classroom than online for likely a number of reasons, although occasionally there are exceptions but unfortunately they seem to be few and far between -even if you ask the same questions online that you'd ask in class on the same material or case. Certainly one biggie is far too many online students make the minimum required superficial posts (some just minutes before the thread closes) and then never check back in to read what anyone else has posted, let alone respond to them - that does not help discussion either (faculty can track student online behavior in most LMS's)