@Pavlov Thank you. End the redundancy. We've nearly wiped out "ATM machine" and "PIN number" is starting to fade. Someday, maybe, I won't have people look at me weird when I correct them for "irregardless." Actually, they'll always look at me weird because it is my rage button. But I want them to stop because they sound like a moron, and not out of a strange fear of me.
@simplersimon I think the above remark was my first use of "irregardless" ever, written or spoken; that i can remember, anyway.
But your first remark oh-so-tempts me to make a festival of use. I won't, because i would find it impolite to employ cheap pranks and teasing if i knew someone present had a thing about it.
I just don't get the sensitivity. What's the point? No one will change. Everyone will think it's strange that someone cares so much, or feels s/he has a license to offer correction. And it's socially quite weird to get involved, unless the person using the trigger word/phrase is a very close family member, possibly a best friend, or you are in class, or you are a boss at work, (and then only in select work settings).
Those cited redundancies, however awkward, do not create confusion, and do not waste much time and energy for most of us, as user or listener, either.
Redundancies can cost time and create inefficiencies. They can also, in technology, systems, conversations, language, practical life, game theory and practice, and elsewhere, be extremely useful. In many biological systems they are intrinsic. Pointless quick conversational redundancies usually offer little advantage. But they don't cost much either.
Conversations, esp casual social conversations and street talk, are intrinsically disorderly, messy, free-form to a degree, sometimes to the edges of intelligibility. They're supposed to be. Conversations in more formal settings have less social tolerance for casual errors, depending on the setting and social norms and what is to be accomplished.
Even so, "PIN number" might be a redundancy, but the usage not a notable social issue in any setting i can think of, and i have traveled a wide range. "Irregardless" is a little worse, but not much so, unless one works in the degreed professions. Neither example is, per se, an example of seriously sloppy thinking...just a casual, habitual, tiny imperfection. Spoken language is largely a matter of plugging thought/feeling/info into habitual language use for most people most if the time, and it encapsulates so many levels of communication, and accomplishes or fails to accomplish so many possible conscious and unconscious goals...those small redundancies you mention are pretty microscopic potatoes, unless the setting obviously calls for greater precision.
For instance, i would expect those redundancy uses to be uncommon among aerospace engineers. I would not be startled to hear them in the supermarket. And tho the engineer group may have higher or more precise skills sets for certain tasks than the supermarket group, that hardly indicates that the engineers are more useful or accomplished persons.
If i were present at a redundant-use/subsequent-correction type conversation, then, depending on tasks/contexts, it prob wouldn't be the redundancy-user i'd be worrying about. Having been the party who made the correction (and i have been, more than once, to my later mortification at the incidents), afterward, i thought this of my conduct: "Rude, much? Interfering, much? Obsessive, much?" and wondered WTF was wrong with me. (I get that your situation need hardly mirror mine.)
Since the logical content of everyone's (i mean everyone's) natural language conversation contains massive logical unfilled holes and happy jumping over all sorts of assumed content, unless you happen to be in a math grad class or engineering conference or similar (with tightly bounded content and scope), why worry about such very small things? Or why interfere with another's speech patterns unless you have an appropriate relationship or setting and are pretty sure the corrective info is welcome? Are these tiny redundancies that good a cause for stress and high blood pressure and strange looks, when we all have lots of problems and stress already?
Or do i misunderstand what upsets you and what you are trying to accomplish? (If so, mea culpa.)
@blaineg I wrote that garbage. Something about ongoing insanity and 3am and feeling a bit wired and letting the ocd run free. Apologies, unless it is hilarious. Then extra amends.
Briefs, but only if I have normal pants on top of them and the leather is supple enough that it doesn't make fart sounds. This way only my terrible case of swamp ass and I will know I'm wearing such a ridiculous garment.
If only jacket was on here, we'd have a very clear winner. I just wish I had more opportunities to wear mine. Northern Minnesota has a very narrow band of fitting weather just at the start of Fall, about a week before the snow flies. You never get it in Spring thanks to the slush storms.
@jqubed Somewhere there a photos of me in lederhosen. But it's not ridiculous only because I was about 6 years old at the time, and my uncle who had lived in Germany for two years brought them home for me and my little brother. Mom though we looked darling in them.
@f00l@baqui63@blaineg Before my cousin's wedding she taught English for two years in Vienna and my brother and I went to visit her twice after our spring semester finished. The second time she was getting ready for her wedding later that summer. Instead of leaving immediately for her honeymoon, the plan was to have a second, German-themed party at her parents' house the day after the wedding. She and her friends from the German camp she attended growing up, eventually becoming a counselor there, would wear dirndls they had, but she wanted her groom to wear lederhosen, so we went to Salzburg to buy them. She figured my brother at the time was about the same height and build, so she had him try them on in place of her then-fiancé. He liked it enough that he bought a pair himself. I instead bought some used clothes from a thrift store and suspenders and a hat in Salzburg. I spent maybe €40 or €50 total, he spent over €300 on his. I think he's worn it a total of 3 times.
A fellow motorcyclist wore chaps. (Chaps on a motorcycle seem pointless to me because there's no butt protection, but whatever.)
He said that once he was gassing up, and there were two white-haired little old ladies at the next pump. One of them said quite loudly to the other: "Look Myrtle, that young man is wearing crotchless leather panties!"
chaps, but only if they were assless.
@annwat All chaps are "assless" . . . From Wikipedia: "but unlike trousers they have no seat and are not joined at the crotch".
@annwat
Chaps are only designed to protect the front and outside of the leg from brush while riding.
They are not designed to protect the crotch and butt at all.
Who's playing horsie here anyway?
@Pavlov Thank you. End the redundancy. We've nearly wiped out "ATM machine" and "PIN number" is starting to fade. Someday, maybe, I won't have people look at me weird when I correct them for "irregardless." Actually, they'll always look at me weird because it is my rage button. But I want them to stop because they sound like a moron, and not out of a strange fear of me.
@simplersimon
So, that remark kinda makes me wanna use "irregardless".
Did i use it correctly in that sentence, ya think? Or no?
@f00l see, using it jokingly doesn't bother me. It's when people seriously think it is a proper word. Then I snap.
@simplersimon
I think the above remark was my first use of "irregardless" ever, written or spoken; that i can remember, anyway.
But your first remark oh-so-tempts me to make a festival of use. I won't, because i would find it impolite to employ cheap pranks and teasing if i knew someone present had a thing about it.
I just don't get the sensitivity. What's the point? No one will change. Everyone will think it's strange that someone cares so much, or feels s/he has a license to offer correction. And it's socially quite weird to get involved, unless the person using the trigger word/phrase is a very close family member, possibly a best friend, or you are in class, or you are a boss at work, (and then only in select work settings).
Those cited redundancies, however awkward, do not create confusion, and do not waste much time and energy for most of us, as user or listener, either.
Redundancies can cost time and create inefficiencies. They can also, in technology, systems, conversations, language, practical life, game theory and practice, and elsewhere, be extremely useful. In many biological systems they are intrinsic. Pointless quick conversational redundancies usually offer little advantage. But they don't cost much either.
Conversations, esp casual social conversations and street talk, are intrinsically disorderly, messy, free-form to a degree, sometimes to the edges of intelligibility. They're supposed to be. Conversations in more formal settings have less social tolerance for casual errors, depending on the setting and social norms and what is to be accomplished.
Even so, "PIN number" might be a redundancy, but the usage not a notable social issue in any setting i can think of, and i have traveled a wide range. "Irregardless" is a little worse, but not much so, unless one works in the degreed professions. Neither example is, per se, an example of seriously sloppy thinking...just a casual, habitual, tiny imperfection. Spoken language is largely a matter of plugging thought/feeling/info into habitual language use for most people most if the time, and it encapsulates so many levels of communication, and accomplishes or fails to accomplish so many possible conscious and unconscious goals...those small redundancies you mention are pretty microscopic potatoes, unless the setting obviously calls for greater precision.
For instance, i would expect those redundancy uses to be uncommon among aerospace engineers. I would not be startled to hear them in the supermarket. And tho the engineer group may have higher or more precise skills sets for certain tasks than the supermarket group, that hardly indicates that the engineers are more useful or accomplished persons.
If i were present at a redundant-use/subsequent-correction type conversation, then, depending on tasks/contexts, it prob wouldn't be the redundancy-user i'd be worrying about. Having been the party who made the correction (and i have been, more than once, to my later mortification at the incidents), afterward, i thought this of my conduct: "Rude, much? Interfering, much? Obsessive, much?" and wondered WTF was wrong with me. (I get that your situation need hardly mirror mine.)
Since the logical content of everyone's (i mean everyone's) natural language conversation contains massive logical unfilled holes and happy jumping over all sorts of assumed content, unless you happen to be in a math grad class or engineering conference or similar (with tightly bounded content and scope), why worry about such very small things? Or why interfere with another's speech patterns unless you have an appropriate relationship or setting and are pretty sure the corrective info is welcome? Are these tiny redundancies that good a cause for stress and high blood pressure and strange looks, when we all have lots of problems and stress already?
Or do i misunderstand what upsets you and what you are trying to accomplish? (If so, mea culpa.)
@f00l Irregardless, that TL;DR reply really chaps my ass.
@f00l Boilerplate? Or did you really write that? If so, Bravo!
@f00l maybe it triggers @simplersimon like "Niagara Falls" was a trigger for Larry.
@blaineg
I wrote that garbage. Something about ongoing insanity and 3am and feeling a bit wired and letting the ocd run free.
Apologies, unless it is hilarious. Then extra amends.
@Pavlov said:
"@f00l Irregardless, that TL;DR reply really chaps my ass."
Cool! Congrats! Got pix?
This freebie's on me.
@f00l For generations it was people not persons irregardless of their chapped asses.
@Kidsandliz
People who need people.
I look quite nice in my chaps, if I do say so myself... And damn, do they feel nice on a cold ride.
I own leather pants they look sexy. Although my leather corset is the best looking uncommon leather item I own.
@CaptAmehrican Same here. Throw in a leather waist cincher, too.
@CaptAmehrican @LaVikinga
Briefs, but only if I have normal pants on top of them and the leather is supple enough that it doesn't make fart sounds. This way only my terrible case of swamp ass and I will know I'm wearing such a ridiculous garment.
If only jacket was on here, we'd have a very clear winner. I just wish I had more opportunities to wear mine. Northern Minnesota has a very narrow band of fitting weather just at the start of Fall, about a week before the snow flies. You never get it in Spring thanks to the slush storms.
@simplersimon But a leather jacket is not ridiculous.
I'm assuming lederhosen isn't on here because it's not ridiculous.
@jqubed
Perhaps lederhosen is too ridiculous.
@jqubed Somewhere there a photos of me in lederhosen. But it's not ridiculous only because I was about 6 years old at the time, and my uncle who had lived in Germany for two years brought them home for me and my little brother. Mom though we looked darling in them.
Ok, it's probably still ridiculous.
@blaineg Yep.
@baqui63
@jqubed
@blaineg
Everyone voluntarily wearing lederhosen should be forced to sing cheery folk songs non-stop.
@f00l @baqui63 @blaineg Before my cousin's wedding she taught English for two years in Vienna and my brother and I went to visit her twice after our spring semester finished. The second time she was getting ready for her wedding later that summer. Instead of leaving immediately for her honeymoon, the plan was to have a second, German-themed party at her parents' house the day after the wedding. She and her friends from the German camp she attended growing up, eventually becoming a counselor there, would wear dirndls they had, but she wanted her groom to wear lederhosen, so we went to Salzburg to buy them. She figured my brother at the time was about the same height and build, so she had him try them on in place of her then-fiancé. He liked it enough that he bought a pair himself. I instead bought some used clothes from a thrift store and suspenders and a hat in Salzburg. I spent maybe €40 or €50 total, he spent over €300 on his. I think he's worn it a total of 3 times.
A fellow motorcyclist wore chaps. (Chaps on a motorcycle seem pointless to me because there's no butt protection, but whatever.)
He said that once he was gassing up, and there were two white-haired little old ladies at the next pump. One of them said quite loudly to the other: "Look Myrtle, that young man is wearing crotchless leather panties!"
Hmm, a leather tie. I've got wood ties (three of them), a Lego tie, and many oddball fabric ties, but no leather tie. Time to go looking.
If I have to wear a noose, I don't have to take it seriously!