How to shop for a “nice” camera?
2I know this group has a lot of collective experience (and opinion) in a lot of things, including cameras and photography. A recent forum post affirms that.
Pointless backstory
I grew up with film cameras, including my parents’ SLR. (I don’t remember the brand/model, but pictures of the Pentax K1000 look exactly right.) I got a little automatic camera for Christmas as a [pre-]teen, and it stayed with me for a lot of years. Eventually everyone transitioned into digital cameras, and I had a run-of-the-mill something-or-other for a while.
Cell phones happened, and gradually their cameras became less crappy. Now it’s pretty normal for everyone to use their phone cameras for everything, including professional movies.
During that transition time I was somewhat aware of what was happening with cameras, but now I feel out of place. My wife would like a “nice camera” and I’d like to find one for her. But I’m not made of money (it would be gross if I was), so my plan is to find something used. I hope.
My wife’s “nice camera” experience that I know about:
- she used to be a part-time photographer at JCPenney’s or something — she understands the artistic parts, but didn’t have to do any of the studio setup, so will probably only ever use the auto settings
- about 15 years ago we borrowed a DSLR for the weekend — it had all the automatic settings and stuff, and had a zoom lens (I think), but I don’t remember the model
- my wife’s brother (& wife) brought his nice camera to the extended family Christmas party, where they also took some family portraits. After this my wife mentioned that she’d like a nice camera like that. (I don’t think she has anything specific in mind, just one that is highly capable and easy to use.)
Oh, and she’s often annoyed at how slow our phone cameras are to react. It’s hard to get just the right picture when there’s so much delay in the phone. So that’s at least part of her motivation for wanting a dedicated camera.
What I’m looking for
I think I know basically what I should be looking for (at least what my wife would consider successful), but it’s still mostly “I’ll know it when I see it.”
I thought I should search for DSLR, because SLRs used to be that good spot between cheap Instamatics and expensive professional equipment. But my early research indicates maybe I’ll be finding mirrorless cameras now. I have no idea if everybody (particularly eBay sellers) will be using correct terms, or if everyone still just calls them “DSLR” out of habit.
I know there used to be brand loyalty in photographers, with each having his or her own favorite brand, either because they had better bodies, or better lenses, or whatever they cared most about. But my knowledge is from back in the dark ages, when each manufacturer had their own lens mount system. Somebody please tell me that’s been standardized by now…
(actually, what’s probably happened is that professional cameras are still brand-segregated, and amateur cameras don’t have swappable lenses)
Speaking of lenses, are they removable anymore? It used to be that zoom lenses were extra expense, so most people didn’t have more than a normal and a telephoto lens. But I think most nice cameras I’ve seen in the last 20 years have zoom lenses. And they must be pretty good optical quality, because I haven’t heard anybody complaining (though I might be hanging with the wrong crowds).
I haven’t watched anybody remove their lens, and I haven’t seen lens filters being applied. I know I’d like to use a polarizer, and other things can be fun, but maybe I’m expecting too much from affordable equipment.
Summary (questions)
So this is my exhausting-but-not-exhaustive list of questions. Some of them are stupid, but I’m asking anyway so I can know for sure.
- is eBay a safe place to buy used camera equipment, or is somewhere else better?
- should I maybe avoid buying used entirely?
- do I look for DSLR, DSLM, MILC, or something else altogether?
- is there a brand/model to look for?
- is there a brand/model to avoid?
- is a zoom lens standard, or do I need to search for that specifically?
- are lens filters (e.g. polarizer) common/standard, or is that a specialty item? (I don’t need filters right away, but I’d like to use them eventually.)
- at some point I’m sure it’ll be used as a video camera — I have assumed that’s a standard ability for modern digital cameras; is it?
- I’d like to stay in the low 3-digit prices. Is that at all reasonable? (probably not) How much should I expect to pay for something like this?
- oh, do I have to worry about what memory cards they use, or what kind of battery? What else am I completely forgetting to consider?
I guess… I think I want a professional-style camera, but hopefully without the professional camera price.
TL;DR
I want to buy a “nice camera” for my wife’s birthday soon, but I no longer have enough domain knowledge to trust my self to it on my own.
I’m not 100% certain I know what she wants, but neither is she. 
- 12 comments, 13 replies
- Comment
/showme the nice professional camera that I can afford on my self-imposed budget
@mediocrebot Yeah, that looks pretty good. Definitely a classic style to it. And a lot more realistic/believable than your second guess:
Ahh, yes. The world renowned “Affordability” brand.
@blaineg Except this is the Chinese knock-off of it: the Affordaility PM-HST.
It’s like it tried to fit “daily” in the middle there like a messed up portmanteau.
I haven’t needed to order from them since 2016, but keh.com used to be the best place to buy used camera equipment. I would still check with them first. Prices are good and their condition grading system is to very tight specifications.
I have never bought camera equipment from ebay. I am sure there are great sellers, but you really don’t know who you are dealing with on a first-time purchase.
Zoom lenses are not standard. If you’re buying a DSLR, unless you are buying a full kit, you’re probably just buying the body with no lenses. You will need to buy lenses separately, and they tend to hold their value.
I still use an old Nikon D90 and am very happy with it. Chasing the latest updates is an expensive hobby. Lenses are one of the most expensive parts of it, unfortunately. You can save considerable money if you’re willing to buy an older camera body.
For Nikon, at least, the batteries are proprietary, but they really aren’t crazy expensive. I think most modern cameras just use SD cards now.
@Limewater
Battery: aftermarket/third party batteries are readily available for many styles, as well as extra chargers.
SD card: Most any SD card will work in a modern camera. I generally shoot about a 64GB card with at least a class 10 rating. This has been plenty fast and large enough for my needs. I keep a couple of spares in my camera bag of both battery and SD card.
Ok, first off, I’m no expert. You should narrow down what you are looking for before you start looking.
If you want a basic camera kit with multiple lenses, buy one of the Canon DSLR kits from Sams, Costo, etc and start there. You usually get the camera body which is decent, two lenses, one is a zoom, a bag, a battery, and a charger. No filters are included but you have to get those based on the lens size and they normally screw on. Most consider this entry level but they are pretty good. Used one for years. You can upgrade the lenses later, just have to buy canon mount. Yes they still keep proprietary mounts. You also can buy an external flash for more fun / effects.
My wife preferred a point and shoot before cell phone camera were popular. I don’t mean the $19.95 K-mart special, shop at best buy or similar. Ease of use, no lens swapping, good zoom, quick shots, and smaller than a DSLR.
Both use SD cards. Don’t buy the cheapest one. Stick with brand names.
Last time I looked the mirrorless big advantage was silence and speed, disadvantage was price.
I would recommend new only at this point. If you were to buy used you need to check the photo count and you don’t know if somebody left the camera body laying around open so debris got into the camera. Dust is your enemy for a DSLR.
As for settings, the canon kit cameras usually have an automatic setting that works ok, and manual that you can learn later.
So thats my two cents which probably isn’t worth that LOL.
@nasman6
Nope … all valid points
@nasman6 I went looking on the Costco website and found only dashcams and drones. Sam’s Club website had twice as many of those, but also two “real” cameras:
They use different lens mounts (EF vs RF), though an adapter exists for one direction but not the other. As I’m learning, this seems to be due to a basic difference between SLR and mirrorless focal points…
Anyway, I don’t think we’ll go that route, but it gives us a good baseline price for new entry-level cameras, complete with 2 lenses.
Also, I was surprised that Costco doesn’t seem to be in the camera business anymore. (unless dashcams count)
@xobzoo that is surprising. Pretty sure that there are a couple of other places that you can find the canon kits, excluding Amazon.
The three main things I recommend considering are 1. How much bulk you can comfortably lug around without a problem, 2. How much zoom you need, and 3. Where you will be taking pictures.
Let’s take #3 first. If you will be shooting outdoors in full sun at all, you will want a camera with an eyepiece viewfinder because all of the rear screens are worthless in those conditions. This greatly reduces the range of choices.
As for point #2, If most of your subject matter is family shots, and you don’t intend to do a lot of wildlife photography or candids taken from a distance, then zoom range is not a huge factor. But if your expected range includes everything from vast landscapes to birding, then you need as much a zoom as you can get, and probably interchangeable lenses as well.
And then there’s #1, the size factor. DSLR cameras offer the greatest versatility, but they are large. Bridge cameras with a long zoom and a viewfinder offer most of what the typical user needs, in a more compact package, at the expense of not permitting lens swapping. Mirrorless cameras with a viewfinder and swappable lenses are less bulky than a DSLR and offer most of the same features, but they’re pricey. High end pocket cameras like the Canon SX series offer reasonable zoom capabilities in a compact size, and there is a workaround for the lack of a viewfinder in the form of a light but bulky attachment that gives you a hood over the screen and an eyepiece to view it from, like this:
I have examples of each of these categories, and I use the one appropriate to the task at hand. My older brother, on the other hand, went for the Nikon P950 bridge camera with a zoom level that makes interchangeable lenses pretty much irrelevant, and it’s an excellent choice for all-around versatility. And I will readily admit that I get as much use from my Canon PowerShot ELPH115is pocket camera as from any of the others.
Like werehatrack, I have/have had several cameras over the years.
Points to consider:
Once you pick a brand for your DSLR you are pretty well committed to using their lenses or third-party lenses with their mount. It is precisely for that reason that I currently shoot a Canon DSLR.I have several decent lenses that are from my old SLR days.
One of the frequent complaints for long zoom point and shoots is the lack of a viewfinder. As mentioned above full sun can be a bit of a challenge depending on your camera, and some people complain it’s hard to use the zoom at maximum range without a viewfinder. I find both those are things that don’t give me much trouble. My current Canon SX740 has a movable screen which generally allows me to use it even in the brightest sun, and once you get used to handling it zooming is not that big a deal. Plus having an articulated view screen allows you to take group family pics while still using the camera flash which is handy for taking pictures that you need to fill flash. It is also nice being able to take pictures directly overhead without having to crane your neck or lay on your back. I found this very handy when I was taking pictures of the inside of domes in the cathedrals and basilicas in Italy recently.
I have bought used cameras off eBay before and have generally had pretty decent luck. My last one held up for several years before it finally bit the dust. I must admit I did decide to buy new this time because I thought it was worth the investment and I now have more disposable income than I used to. I’m also not expecting any major improvements in the capacities of P&S cameras at that price point anytime soon.
Picking a camera brand to be loyal to is sort of like the Apple/Windows, or iPhone / Android wars. You will find Fanboys and proponents/detractors on either side of all those equations.
Being able to handle the camera in a store is very practical because it gives you an idea of the feel and heft as well as layout of important buttons etc. Some cameras just feel more comfortable in your hands.
So all that being said, I find that I use my point and shoot much more frequently than I do my DSLR due to ease of carrying, not having to change out lenses to go from landscape to telephoto, small format to lug around, and the excellent results I can get from mine. There are plenty of controllable options which allow you to push your artistic capabilities.
Good luck…
Whatever choice you make, you’ll be greatful you stepped up from depending on your phone’s camera to take pictures. Having a dedicated camera with good glass is an important step towards improving your pictures.
I echo the sentiments of “pick your poison and stick with it”. Because you don’t have a choice. Every manufacturer has their own exclusive lineups of accessories (Fuji, Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc.) which has their own trademark buzzwords (MILC, as an example, is Sony’s term for mirrorless; Sony also uses Zeiss lenses compared to Leica which is Panasonic’s exclusive optics provider).
I would say eBay is nice to go to if you know what you’re looking for (specific models, specific conditions, quirks you can live with like dead pixels), but since this is going to be a present from the heart as a hobby… buy from a store and keep the receipt in case you need an exchange or return. It would probably be best to get an entire kit, at which point I second Keh.com for some good deals.
At the very least, the time spent using it will acclimate you and your wife to deciding on how far down the rabbit hole of the hobby she wants to go. (Like do you want to get flash diffusers, softbox umbrellas, green screen, etc. for an at-home studio.)
Personally, I would recommend this to start with: a 2014 model, but it’s mirrorless (fast, quiet) and more importantly, cheap (these machines don’t really devalue).
It’s no longer a standout: “regular” cameras are about as powerful, but it’s still a “professional” camera (you get to carry a bag of gear) and the overall size of everything is relatively compact. (You can still attach the gregarious-sized zoom equipment the big brother SONY units use, and buy a grip extension like those that turn your phone into a video game controller, but the recommended pancake lenses should suffice.)
https://shotkit.com/sony-a6000-review/ (contains a link to a kit sold on Amazon for $750, which is probably a bit more expensive than buying the lens and body and SD cards separately, but it sure is convenient)
https://www.keh.com/shop/blog/best-sony-e-mount-pancake-lenses
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_α6000
@xobzoo @pakopako I was scrolling down here to write about the a6000 myself. They have retained value amazingly well for 10 year old cameras but there are plenty to be found at reasonable prices. With a little patience and searching on used marketplaces like eBay, mercari, and offerup you can get a full kit with body, battery, and the kit 18-55mm lens for around $300. You can get one under $500 all day. Maybe even one with the 18-55 and the something like 35-105 longer zoom lens. There are some very high end lenses for this platform as well but the kit lenses are really not bad.
I was a Nikon person with a couple of their entry level dslr’s, including a d3200 kit from here. But I never took them with me because of bulk so they were rarely put to good use.
I was looking for a camera for video shoots, and the a6000 hits a couple of sweet spots (like 1080p, I don’t need 4k). Turns out it’s nice and compact and takes damn fine photos. I once swore off of Sony but this camera has drawn me back in.
Their other a6xxx series and the full frame a7 series are also amazing but the step up in price is steep. If you don’t need 4k video or a full swing out screen, the a6000 gives you lots for the least money. There are a5000 series and older alpha cameras (and NEX) out there for cheap but I have no idea how well they compare.
My opinion would be to go with a new bridge camera from a reputable brand, unless you absolutely need the interchangeable lenses. You can get a bridge camera with a good quality sensor and 30x zoom for the price of a used, older DSLR camera. In my opinion, the quality is more than good enough, and you never have to worry about swapping lenses and getting junk inside the camera body. It also just keeps things simpler and neater in general (less to carry and/or lose). Most of these cameras use SD Cards for memory, and either rechargeable NiMH AA batteries or a proprietary lithium ion battery pack.
For what it’s worth, modern smartphones really do have very good cameras in them. You’re basically set for everything EXCEPT zoom, which phones just cannot physically do.
Look for a used Pentax X 5 bridge camera. Not strong in manual settings, but a great 16 MP camera I use when I don’t want to spend time fussing with so many options.
BTW, I have written two books for beginners, wrote for two photo magazines and taught a newbie class for camera beginners at an area college.
Definitely get a camera with a finder as well as a screen.
My site needs an overhaul, but more at acpress.com.
PS, Fuji’s made tons of bridge cameras and they go cheap. eBay has your back. Check completed auctions to see what stuff sold for.
John
5
On the compact side of things, I bought a Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS80 30x zoom 5 years ago, and have been quite happy with it. Got some great photos on an Africa trip.
For my use, being able to stick it in a pocket was a big thing.
I’m sure there’s a newer model out now.
@blaineg
That’s exactly why I like the current ultra zoom point and shoots. On board software has improved dramatically over the last few years. Pocketability is a must for me. I generally carry a belt mounted case but find I slide it in and out of my jacket pocket regularly if I’m taking pictures sequentially in an area. The case allows me to carry an extra battery and SD card for times when those are needed.
I see nothing to disagree with in any of the opinions expressed above, as everybody’s experience is a little different and everybody’s needs are a little different. But as guidance for somebody who is confused by all of the stuff that’s out there, all of these perspectives taken together constitute a pretty good body of knowledge.
I will plant my flag that DSLRs are obsolete; mirrorless cameras (either interchangeable- or fixed-lens) are the present and future.
I personally am a pack mule, and I haul my Sony a7R II with lenses (including my 2-pound Tamron 35–150) on hikes, but most people don’t want to go to that much trouble. I bought my wife a Sony HX99, which is about the size of a pack of cards, and I recommend it as a pocketable compact for something under $500. You can connect it to your phone to transfer pictures and do remote shutter. Some of the similar ones recommended here are probably just as good; I got the Sony so that the controls would be similar to my Big Camera. (Get a sturdy case and the accidental-damage plan with one of these.)
The RX10 IV is an interesting beast; it has a very wide zoom and the speed is fantastic (it can take 20fps bursts and 960fps video), though it’s a little older. It’s available used-excellent for $1200.
Unfortunately, neither the compacts nor the bridge cameras are filter-friendly or have the ability to get the very shallow depth of field that looks great in portraits, and there’s no substitute for sensor size. However, even with a Big Camera, there are lots of times it’s great to have something more portable.
Overall, my recommendation would be either a new compact like the HX99 (if she usually carries around a sizeable enough bag to fit it) or a used bridge like the RX10 IV from a reputable place like LensRentals or KEH. If she decides that she wants to upgrade, that will give her a better sense of what she’s looking for, and it will still be useful as a have-it-with-her option.
@chrylis
Uh-oh… I was all set for “bridge camera is probably the path for us” until that. Umm. I guess that’s just another detail for us to consider. Ultimately I’m okay without filters, but this is the first I’ve heard (or thought about) about depth of field limitations.
I like to capture the scenery, but my wife does pictures of the people. Not necessarily “portrait-style”, but I think the shallow depth of field probably fits in with her intended style. We’ll need to talk it over and see how much it matters (and maybe try to find more detailed examples online).
@xobzoo The long and short of it is that the ability to blur the background depends on the absolute size of the lens aperture, so a full-frame lens at f/2.8 will have more separation than a compact lens at f/2.8. (Additionally, most compacts only go down to about f/3.5.)
The RX10 IV does accept 72mm filters, by the way, and it goes down to f/2.4 at the wide end, but its f/2.4 is only equivalent to about an f/4 on a full-frame. But there is a lot to be said for compactness.
Thanks for the input, everybody!
No decisions have been made yet, and in some ways they’re farther away than when I first asked here, but in a good way (“ignorance is bliss” … but not very useful).
Things I’ve collected from this, in no particular order:
I had originally considered trying to make it a birthday surprise, but rather early on decided the best (and safest) thing to do would be to make the research a surprise, then say “hey, I found this camera; do you like it? Or maybe this other one, which different in these ways.” So my newer goal is to come up with a very short list of good options, and know their associated prices.
@xobzoo
Way to leverage a diverse group’s communal knowledge!