And as tradition holds, I will say that summer absolutely sucks if you’re an adult, or at least a young adult. Most of us don’t get to work any less than usual, but have to deal with the heat which we can’t do anything about because we can’t afford air conditioning, and listening to shitty boomers brag to anyone within earshot about their vacations.
@ShotgunX You may have found the biggest boomer advantage.
We are old enough to have gone to school before the price of college skyrocketed. University of Texas resident tuition is more than 100 times what it was when I went there, and I imagine the numbers are similar everywhere else.
New graduates don’t get paid more than me, although pay has gone up about 8 fold since I graduated. Going to college was a no-brainer in the 60’s and 70’s, but now has become a much more difficult choice.
@2many2no@tinamarie1974 Fine, I guess I’ll go and kill another industry to take my mind off of this. What will it be this time? Shredded cheese? Seersucker suits? Red Solo cups? The possibilities are endless!
@ShotgunX@tinamarie1974 No silver spoons here. Most of us started out making around 80¢ to $1 an hour. Life is always tough when you’re starting out.
And inflation’s a given, it’s never going away. Everything goes up. 20¢ gas is $3. The first new car I bought was $3000, just bought one for wifey, it was $30,000 (and that’s still less than the median price of about $35,000.) Paid $50K for my house, the one across the street just went up for sale at over $200K.
But I can’t think of anything else that’s (legally) gone up a hundred fold in 50 years. Not even healthcare. Colleges are taking advantage of the increase in financial aid and jacking the price so that you now need massive loans. They’re gaming the system, but pricing themselves way above market value.
@2many2no@tinamarie1974 Don’t get me wrong, I do agree about colleges. That’s why, when I felt I was being rubed in private school (which seemed to be intentionally not teaching well to keep students behind and repeating classes), I transferred to a cheap local school, and finished my degree there.
But college is selective, while things like food and healthcare aren’t. When I broke a bone last year, the 90-minute surgery to put a few ounces of plates and screws inside cost $50,000. The 325mg Tylenol they gave me in the emergency room before that had a distinct figure on the bill: $217. Fortunately, I was insured.
Then we can look at food. A loaf of decent bread is four bucks. Seven bucks a pound for chicken breast. Want some fish? Salmon is $12.99 a pound. And that’s if you have the time and/or strength to cook at home - most people my age don’t. What’s the alternative? A bare minimum of $10 per pound at a buffet. You can chase it with an $8 happy hour beer, which comes out to an even $10 after tax and tip. Or you can race to the bottom of the casket by shoving canned Goya beans down your gullet.
But all that aside, here’s the kicker: where I live, a tiny studio apartment in an unsavory part of town costs at least $1,600 to rent, which is almost $20,000 a year, which is way above 50% of net income for an average ~30-year-old.
Someone broke these markets, and it wasn’t the people who just came of age.
@2many2no@ShotgunX@tinamarie1974 the first car I bought was from my dad for $500 after replacing the headgasket. I did the work then some asshole totalted me and I swapped the engine into the parts car . the only car I’ve bought from a dealer was In 2004. Was 1999 Saturn SL. It was $1650. And she’s still running at 240K. And I’m not even 35.
@ShotgunX omfg… Where the hell does your crazy ass live???
“Then we can look at food. A loaf of decent bread is four bucks. Seven bucks a pound for chicken breast. Want some fish? Salmon is $12.99 a pound. And that’s if you have the time and/or strength to cook at home - most people my age don’t. What’s the alternative? A bare minimum of $10 per pound at a buffet. You can chase it with an $8 happy hour beer, which comes out to an even $10 after tax and tip. Or you can race to the bottom of the casket by shoving canned Goya beans down your gullet.”
@unksol Big city. I do acknowledge that it’s not like this everywhere (especially with housing), but employment opportunities elsewhere would also be lower.
@ShotgunX they doc your pay if you work from home cause cost of living. But it’s better than paying. $4 for bread you can make or $7 a lb for chicken breast when the norm is $2
@ShotgunX@tinamarie1974 If you follow the money, the most broken markets are those where someone else pays. Healthcare is the prime example. The providers attempt to get the best reimbursement, hovering around 16¢ on a $1, so they bill exorbitant amounts for everything. The insurers, who claim to be on your side, actually make a cut off the top (kind of like casino gambling profits) so their incentive is to maximize the size of the pie. The patient’s view is, “I’m not paying, so give me the best.” These factors combine to drive up the cost of everything.
As a result, healthcare costs almost always rise faster than inflation. Similar forces are at work whenever the consumer and payer are separated. Even paying with a card instead of cash insulates cost enough to subtly increase spending. And of course, marketers know all the social and psychological tricks to drive up perceived value. (“Location, location, location.”)
But if boomers broke the system (doubtful) they are fixing to pay the price, because they are now retiring, typically on an income that will no longer rise with the prices of things.
@ShotgunX - don’t worry medicare will kill the boomers pretty quickly since it is only the illusion of good coverage. Over and over research has documented that outcomes are best for private insurance (umm duh), then medicaid and then tied for last medicare and the uninsured. Now I am sure they have partly screwed up the dependent variable as there are many combinations people have with respect to medicare, some people have paid for B, gap and drug (although drug doesn’t help people much as goodrx coupons tend to be cheaper according to some research I have seen) and I’d guess their outcomes would be a bit better than the uninsured, but those with just A and maybe A&B (certainly B with no gap and cancer wouldn’t do well) would be about on par with the uninsured for sure. So yeah medicare is actually a plot to kill the elderly sooner rather than later all while deluding them into thinking they have good coverage. So you will have your wish without sullying your hands with murder.
@ShotgunX Where on earth big city do you live? Silicon Valley? Bread here is $1.00 to maybe $3/loaf at the high end (most around $2 to about $2.50). Your rent gets me a 2000sf house in a decent part of town here. Chicken is around $3-5/pound depending on what you buy although 4 big chicken breasts run around $5. Blueberries currently are $2.50/pint and cherries $2.99-3.99/pound. I eat on around $120-150/mo and right now that includes some blueberries and cherries (although I do not eat out).
@2many2no@ShotgunX@tinamarie1974 whiplash! First I had to listen to fucking George fucking thorough fucking good, but then I got to rewatch that hilarious SNL skit about boomers and millennials.
I’m GenX, and I feel like I can be a calm, dispassionate voice of reason in this arena, by saying that America has fully entered its Late Imperial Flab Era, that we are all spoiled babies who have no idea what ungodly levels of economic, social, political and climate fuckery is about to start pounding down our collective door.
But we’re all in this together! And if we treat our neighbor as our friend, we’ll all do better during the fuckstopalypse.
(Also: boomers got an insane free ride and blithely destroyed all possibility of a good future, so they should be hunted down an exterminated like cane toads.)
@Kidsandliz Medicare might not be so great, but an important factor that generally gets overlooked is that boomers have pretty hefty savings. Sure, some of them are struggling to make ends meet like the rest of us chumps, but it’s not as bad for them. Plus, many of them own a lot of property. It is this wealth that will be tapped to pay off their medical bills, instead of being passed on to their children and grandchildren. At least, what remains after their trips to Atlantic City and falling for Nigerian prince scams. We’re seeing an increasing trend of medical and nursing home providers using legal means to drain these savings. For example, it’s becoming quite a hassle to get nursing home care without emptying your bank accounts and selling off your residence these days. And many more procedures are starting to become labeled as “cosmetic,” which insurance doesn’t cover.
The corporations won’t let these people die that easily, no, not until they’re done squeezing them for every dime they have. They’ll be hooked up to machines, eating liver’n’onions in liquid form through tubes in their noses, while the rest of us work three shifts to be able to afford to buy back our childhood homes from the banks after the repossessions.
Meanwhile, I’m eating kale and doing 5-mile runs, not because I’m trying to be pretty enough to get laid (no, that’s pointless anyway, since all of us are too tired after coming home from work at 11 PM to go out on dates), but because I’m terrified of catching the same shit that these burger-guzzling fuckers have by age 50, and know that there won’t even be anyone to drive me to the hospital, forcing me to die on the floor of my dystopian, Japanese capsule hotel-sized room, because paying for a first-class airline ticket price-level ambulance ride would postpone my retirement by another three decades.
@ShotgunX You need to get your facts straight. Read the stats on what boomers have saved for retirement. Average is $158,000 when it is projected they will need $280,000 for medical care alone. BUT 42% have nothing saved and a total of 64% have nothing to $100,000 saved (as many companies don’t even offer retirement programs, let alone pensions)… those folks will be mostly or completely living off of an average of $1400/mo social security. Also that is the first generation where most will not have a pension. Running out of money will be a real problem. Then paying for drugs and medicare B (doctor visits) and gap insurance will be an additional problem.
It is the government that has set the rules for medicare and their incentive is to keep the costs of medicare A (no premiums) and social security down. If people die younger the government pays out less for those. Medicare does not cover nursing homes or assisted living so those folks will not be kept alive (research documents that outcomes are worse - eg die sooner - for those on medicare who are tied with the uninsured). Medicaid paid for nursing home care requires almost no assets NOR income. There is also a limit to the number of days medicare lets people even stay in the hospital. Not to mention that there is no pre-existing condition protection past when you have to first sign up. Let gap lapse and people have to pass medical underwriting to get it back. Most won’t pass that. Chemo for my cancer #3 was (in 2011) a bit over $176,000 negotiated rate. Fortunately I had good employer insurance. Had I had medicare and no gap it would have cost me a bit over $35,200. Doesn’t take much to exhaust resources when things like that happen to people. As it is the drug insurance has limited formularies and doesn’t save people much. Research has documented that coupon programs like goodrx actually mean drugs cost less than via medicare.
The boomer bubble tends to wreck things in every cycle of life they pass through due society not planning ahead for that. You can blame WW2 for all those babies born - it is not the fault of the boomers that they are in a huge generation. Right now there already isn’t enough senior HUD, assisted living nor inexpensive retirement centers. They aren’t being built very fast either because the government has cut back on that. Of course at the other end of the boomer bubble some things will be over built because the baby bust generation won’t fill all those facilities. Due to no pensions for 3/4 of the boomers (the first generation mostly without that) and insufficient in retirement (many companies do not offer retirement programs and the limit on what can be invested in IRA’s means you can’t put in enough) many will run out of money and there will not be enough HUD to house them. The problem of homelessness in the elderly, especially the really old elderly is projected to grow significantly since many elderly try to stay in their own homes until their late 70’s.
Boomers relying on their house for their retirement will be in for a shock. There aren’t enough in the generations under them who buy those sizes of houses. Thus the value will go down because there will be an over supply. In addition many of those are post 1968 homes and many of them have major structural components that only have a 50 or so year life span and thus will need expensive repairs. Good bye more home value. There will be competition between boomers and new home buyers for the starter homes that either have a bedroom on the first floor or are ranch homes (the rich boomers can build what they need). Actually in some markets that has already started to happen.
Most boomers aren’t wealthy, don’t go on expensive trips. Many work well past 70 as they can’t afford to retire. This, of course, is harder for those who do manual labor and those who have major medical issues. 11% of retired seniors get food stamps. Far more than that just barely miss qualifying. These folks have less money than you do. Look here for median income of 3 different generations. https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-income-millennial-gen-x-baby-boomers-every-state-us-2018-7#arkansas-4 The difference isn’t as great as you’d think between the boomers and the generation below them (not to mention it takes time to be promoted). Most folks in any generation aren’t wealthy.
@Kidsandliz But if it’s that bad for boomers, what does it say for everyone under them if recent research is showing that they’re still comparatively wealthier today, and were comparatively wealthier at different points throughout their lives? Having some savings by retirement is still better than having no savings by retirement, which is how most of my manifesto-thumping compatriots will wind up. They’re saying stuff like “most millennials don’t have enough in reserve to be able to cover a $400 emergency,” when boomers (and to a lesser extent Gen-Xers) did at the same age. We can’t just say “oh, it’s okay, millennials will figure out how to catch up financially later.” Having a house that you can’t sell to anyone because they don’t have the money to buy it is still better than spending over 1,000,000 lifetime dollars on rent, with zero equity to your name, because it’s financially impossible to make a down payment or pay a mortgage while still being able to afford to eat. Right?
@ShotgunX Look at the average income by generation link I gave you. Not much difference between what the median boomers are earning and the generation under them - on average only $4-6000 a year more than the generation under them. Of course the youngest generation is going to earn less as they are just starting out and haven’t worked long enough to have more promotions/seniority raises.
But again you are making assumptions about the easy life and tons of money boomers have. Read this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/21/financial-mistakes-baby-boomers-dont-have-emergency-funds/39589709/
and you will see there are a ton of boomers with no savings, not enough savings, not enough in retirement and not because they spent it all on opulent lifestyles either… Tons of boomers have working class jobs earning not that much more than their younger co-workers and then only earning more due to seniority. In fact more boomers have blue collar jobs than the Generation X and Millennials. Those two generations have more education than the boomers and so those two generations are going to have more of the more highly paid jobs, more supervisor jobs…
Heck I was 28 before I felt I could afford a used car. But that was also a choice because I chose to do something for a living that was a lot of fun but paid like shit. My sisters saw what I was doing without (in a material sense) and missed what I had (experiences) and so chose different career paths. And yes I finally went back to school to go into a different career to earn more money because I realized if I didn’t I’d be living in poverty in retirement (due to 3 major cancers and the financial toxicity of that I will be living in poverty in retirement anyway - best laid plans blah blah blah).
But I also knew how to save and so no matter how little I was earning I always had some money in the bank. That has severed me well though job loss due to cancers, layoffs… Twice I have lived below the poverty line (am living that way right now). I chose to live in a shed in someone’s back yard once to save money when I was really broke (HUD has a long waiting list). I could have gone through my savings and lived in a nicer place but my priority was conserving cash. Again, a lot of this is about choices. Don’t buy an expensive phone, get a flip phone and cheaper phone card. Don’t buy a new car, buy a 8-10 year old used one. Use an antenna instead of paying for cable… It is, of course, worth making sure you have something decent if your income depends on it, but there are plenty of things that don’t require “good” or even require that you own it all.
I think it is also perhaps related to expectations for what you will own, how long you will hang on to it… (my daughter called our van that died at 25 years and 3 mo the ghetto van because of what it looked like but hanging on to that saved me major bucks, made it easy to find in a parking lot and I could care less what people thought of it or me driving it. I was more focused on saving money). Many boomers have/had parents who lived through the depression and so felt it important to be frugal - which rubbed off on many of the boomers, and so they lived below their means. It is all about choices in that respect (of course for those living at or below the poverty line there are other issues involved too).
I think your complaints/envy are/is misplaced with respect to blame and/or what you presume other generations have… or from your point of view apparently handed to them - these folks worked their butts off for what they have - they weren’t handed things any more than those in any other generation were handed things - only the rich can afford to hand their kids stuff and all generations have some rich folks. With the boomer generation many were drafted against their will and fought in wars they didn’t want to fight in which interrupted plans, came with other costs… of course each generation has its own share of “bad stuff”.
You said yourself you live in a very expensive part of the country. Of course that is going to make life harder; make it harder to save. So apply for jobs elsewhere and move once you get one. I have lived (and currently live) in some areas of the country that suck bricks for a variety of reasons. I have stayed away from some jobs I’d have really like to have that were in really expensive parts of the country. Given better choices I wouldn’t have lived in some places I did (others were nice), but I lived in those places because it was a good balance between salary, cost of living and the job. Perhaps not my first choice of location, but based on a balance of priorities those choices seemed like good ones at the time (although with 20/20 hindsight I made a few mistakes).
One of the things I see in the traditional aged (though the late 20’s) college students I teach is that many of them don’t feel they should have to “pay their dues”; they expect they will walk into supervisor jobs with mid career pay without having to work their way up to those things and actually have worked long enough - worked long enough while also having for that length of time the right credentials - to even be mid career at that level. It comes as a great shock to them that life doesn’t work that way. I am not saying this is you as I know little about you, your circumstances, etc., but I do think it contributes to some of the entitlement attitudes that some of the younger people have.
Life is not easy for most people in all generations. There are costs and benefits with choices. There are consequences of choices (both intended and unintended). Bad shit falls into many people’s lives that can upend even best laid plans. We have to make choices to do things we don’t want to do, or given a choice (which we may or may not have) wouldn’t in this life time ever choose to do. It sucks. But then again it is what it is. Boomers have always had too many people and not enough of X (be it too few promotional opportunities per worker, competition to even get into careers - for example during boomer times 1 in 6 who wanted to go to med school got in, now it is 1 in 3…). In the long run each generation has its own set of challenges to deal with. They aren’t necessarily harder, they are just different.
@ShotgunX PS the biggest problem with respect to retirement is the demise of pensions for most people. The folks currently in the generations above the boomers are the last generations where a large number had pensions. Boomers will be the first generation where most don’t. Something like 26% will have pensions, most of those are government employees, public school teachers…
Research has documented that millennials are saving more for retirement than boomers are http://money.com/money/5640466/this-chart-shows-how-much-millennials-gen-x-and-baby-boomers-have-saved-for-retirement-see-how-you-compare/ millennials and boomers both save 10% of their income, but millennials started sooner so that will result in a bigger pot of money in the end. Of course many boomers started out with the promise of pensions that were then turned into non-pension retirement plans which would have affected that some. Millennials will have saved less total in comparison to boomer because they are younger and saved for fewer years.
Big city. I do acknowledge that it’s not like this everywhere (especially with housing), but employment opportunities elsewhere would also be lower.
So apply for a job you’d like in cheaper cities and when you finally get one then move. That way the fewer employment opportunities won’t matter as you will already have a job. If you hate that job or area in the end you can repeat the process (hunt for job then move). Since you said you are going to die alone with no one you won’t have dual career issues to deal with nor issues of kids and not moving them too many times while they are in K-12.
@Kidsandliz@ShotgunX I mean no one wants to buy a home they don’t intend to stay in. Unless they are super sure they can sell it quickly to move to a new job. I don’t want to move. So close to options can matter. But if you paying 1600 for a hole in wall when you could buy a nice house for $600 a month and get equity. Yeah you need to change your approach. Cities suck
@Kidsandliz@unksol Well yeah, we’re saving what we can since a younger age (and not everyone is even able to do this, but I digress), but that’s only because we can see just how bad things are going to get. Also, just because we’re saving more, doesn’t mean that we’ll have more money in the end. Our piece of the pie will be affected by smaller SS payments, especially since we’re not having any kids, who will be the ones paying into the system once we start retiring.
Personally, while I’m very frugal, I genuinely don’t expect to continue living past about 50 or so, ± a few years depending on health factors. I’m trying to live a very healthy life style so that I can stretch my 30s for as long as possible, but once that starts going, I’m checking out. I won’t miss it. I don’t even miss it now. It’s just a daily cycle of eat work sleep eat work sleep and nothing else. It’s a meaningless existence in my eyes.
The cheapest rents I’ve seen when browsing real estate were about $500 for sharing a single <200 ft² room with another person. And that comes with all the dangers of not having a contract. Otherwise, studios start at about $1,200, but at that price, they would be really bad and/or in really bad neighborhoods.
@Kidsandliz@ShotgunX I’m 34. I’m not thrilled with my job or my pay. I should probably look for better work. I should get paid way more But I don’t totally hate it. I could probably work at Walmart for less than half what I make and still pay the mortgage if there was an emergency. There are better things out there if you get out of the hell of nyc. Where even working at a gas station gets you a decent place.
@Kidsandliz@ShotgunX there’s one large factor that everyone avoids discussing. The Post-War economy for the USA was extremely strong cause all the competition from Europe and Asia was in ruins. Everyone on earth was ‘buying american’ because their countries were destroyed.
Secondly, the only other large advanced economy, the USSR, was embargoed in the west. So even though Soviet labor was much cheaper (like China in the modern day) they could not legally sell anything to the west, once again maximizing the USA’s economic advantage.
Nowadays, with free trade, you have Asian sweatshops and robotics. So, yes, Boomers (in this country) DID have it easy. Everything is cyclical though.
@Doggo19@ShotgunX And now the low interest rates that benefits younger generations over those close to or in retirement. House mortgage rates were really high years ago (up to 16+% and for years hovering 8-13%), now they are low (in the 3-4% range). That difference is huge with respect to monthly payment rates. The interest rate longer term drops affects boomers in a different (negative) way as it lowers the value of their retirement at a point it becomes risky to have a lot in the stock market as there is less time to recover from a crash. So interest rates favor the younger generations and is a determent to boomers.
@Doggo19@Kidsandliz What good is a low interest rate if the cheapest place for sale is half a million dollars, when fifty years ago it was a fifth of that, adjusted for inflation?
Also, all the real estate around here is owned by banks, massive developers, and dynastic old Jews, none of whom have to worry about “making ends meet,” though of course they’ll feed you that line with every yearly 15% rent increase.
Sorry, I just can’t feel pity for boomers. No matter how you look at it, they are comparatively more well-off than any generation after (or even before) them, and are projected to be more well-off than other generations when they hit the same age. And saying that millennials or whatever aren’t going to be behind in the end if they just apply some elbow grease, do some heavy lifting, and accept a different quality and style of life is fundamentally unfair.
I don’t think anyone asked anyone for pity.
Pity or don’t pity. Whatever.
The economy has already changed far beyond what common conversations seem to assume it to be.
Housing healthcare education banking/$ communications food etc are all gamed now.
These are no longer trad businesses offering products or services for money. These are gamed industries that are manipulated as far as possible by big $, nickel-and-$ their way to becoming increasingly beneficial only to the already-wealthy.
For everyone else: you work, you pay, you lose.
Rich people (really really rich people) gain.
I suspect that soon we will be at the point where housing (either owned or rented) will be considered “optional” and a “luxury item” by much of the middle class, even in the Midwest and deep South. Already that way in some places. Like wherever @ShogunX lives. Like Silicon Valley and Seattle and NYC etc.
Yes, the baby boomers are guilty of various generational financial and character sins.
So are the GenX, the millennials, and everyone else over 18. Our personal internal casual econ models are just way out of date. (Same with the big fancy academic models)
If we define middle class the trad nostalgic oft- unspoken way of having:
savings, and a retirement plan,
affordable healthcare, (yeah sure)
access to decent food (who knows what is in lots of current food)
tolerable housing (ha ha ha)
affordable edu and continuing education adequate to the middle class challenges (again ha ha ha)
reasonable survival knowledge to meet modern challenges
ability to raise educate and care for children
ability to care for the elderly
some time off to breathe
some opportunities for community and commonality
good affordable opportunities for econ self improvement
Etc
Guess what’s going going gone?
Furthermore were doing such a bad job of this, that we’re practically begging China to “win”.
But over here it’s so very important to let big $ interests of all kinds do what they want without asking too many serious questions.
And it’s so important to let foreign and domestic trollers hijack serious conversation.
And it’s so important to blame one generation or another. Right?
I’d prefer we (as a culture) got serious, turned down the volume a bit, cranked up the quality of discourse and conduct, and tried to find a way forward.
I’m not betting on that happening in the US in 2019 or 2020.
@Doggo19@f00l@Kidsandliz@ShogunX I wasn’t even alive when the decisions were made (or the neglect had happened) to let the world turn into this nightmare. So I’m not sure how I’m supposed to not blame the responsible generation(s).
I live my life with as small a footprint as possible. I don’t have credit card debt. I don’t gorge myself on salt and sugar, knowing that there’s going to be someone to pick up the health care bill down the line. I recycle all my plastics, paper, and metals (I even recycle used aluminium foil). Why should I take the high road, and attempt to have “discourse” about these problems? I’ve already tried that anyway, and the boomers don’t give a shit. When I ask them why they’re dumping Coke cans or clean cardboard into the trash, when the recycling bins are right fucking there, the responses I’ve received were either “oh it doesn’t matter it all just goes to the same place anyway” or “I’m old, I don’t care because I’m too busy, leave me alone.”
No, “discourse” is inconsequential at this point. The world would be much better off if I helped drag these fuckers out into the town square for their public beheadings.
@ShotgunX News flash - for some people in each generation life is unfair. It is what it is. What goes on “globally” in our country is generally more in the hands of the wealthy than the rest of us and so on a fundamental level, as individuals, we have little we can change on our own. We can vote and hope whomever wins acts in the best interests of those who are not wealthy a bit more than what is currently going on. We can get involved with groups that work to get things changed. We can help those with closed minds open them a bit to how we might begin to solve some of the issues this country has that is hurting those who are not rick, the environment, the economy, the vulnerable, etc.
I’ve had a pile of “unfair” things happen to me (as have so many others - just read the different threads on this forum to get a sampling of some of the really, really bad shit that has hit the lives of some of the forum members here). In my case major cancers 3x, one with no cure that, collectively, have eaten much of my money and caused me to lose my job (and no I don’t have disability as I can still work but after the gap in my vitae having trouble finding permanent employment - lots of temp jobs). Bought a house at the very, very beginning of the housing crash (in a small, cheap college town or I wouldn’t have been able to do that) before we knew that was happening, then was under water and sold low after nearly 3 years on the market in the recession with me living 2500 miles away. Lost a wad. Living in around 450sf apt in HUD with food stamps at the moment. Then my 25 year old car permanently died. My 13 year old used replacement got backed over by a commercial truck with no rear bumper and totaled out. My current nearly10 year old used car needs nearly $3000 in stuff from tires to a hood cable to a transmission flush and more. Don’t have the money right now for any of that. Then (this is lucky actually) my car missed being one of the 9 broken into not so long ago where I live. The car 2 cars over was stolen a couple of months before that. A shooting a block away at the gas station around a week ago. Day time muggings. Nice neighborhood. Not. Who would have thought I’d be living like this after returning to school and getting a PhD and then getting a good college teaching job? ROI on that is now big time negative. School loans from that are still around though. My list is a lot longer than that… My 2 sisters have done quite well for themselves (well their husbands have anyway - they don’t have to work for a living, although they both do on and off) and so far the big bad shit that fucks with your life nearly wrecking it has missed them both. So far anyway.
All of that crap was stuff that I either couldn’t have anticipated or had no control over. But it hasn’t stopped me from doing things that make my life a bit more pleasant. I do volunteer work with cats and hospice (and the chronic fatigue I have from the one cancer and damage from chemo means sometimes it takes some will power to get my ass out the door to do it but it is worth doing; worth being “needed”; makes me happier). Dumpster diving has helped me stockpile, more or less, several years of clothing for the kids (although the boys not so much so as less boys clothes get donated) until they put in a trash compactor not so long ago. Because I sold something I found in the dumpster right at the same time someone else’s need was greater than mine (homeless guy who dumpster dived there who was robbed of all his stuff including his tent) I bought a $25 tent at walmart for him. Then when he found a little kid spiderman 2 wheeler with training wheels bike in the dumpster he gave it to me instead of selling it. Bingo! A birthday present I didn’t have to buy. I was thrilled. The kid was thrilled. Stuff comes back to you in unexpected ways. Life can still be grim, and I can still be discouraged and have anxiety about my financial future, but there are unexpected pleasures that come from forcing myself to get out of my own misery and take control over what I can control.
Sucks. All of it (well not for my sisters). But that isn’t going to change anything and so it is my responsibility to deal with the hand life has dealt me, make the best of it and do what I can to keep my head above water. Sure it can get discouraging at times and some of the choices I am forced to make stink… like sleeping in my car instead of renting a motel room when headed to the cancer center or my mom’s, selling things I saved a long time for to own - but I need the money so bye bye stuff, not being able to afford to take the 3, 5, and 6 year old to the zoo, go on the train and merry-go-round there, and to the little kid water park there sucks. They’d love it, but for the 4 of us it would cost at a minimum $49 and that is beyond my budget right now. So we go to the outdoor shopping mall and they play in the fountain (allowed) or to the huge fancy playground in another local park. They have fun. Spending my time being envious of my sisters’ lives doesn’t solve my problems (although at times I am envious) and makes me feel worse. Yes there are times I pull out the violins but I try not to as that, in the end, keeps me focused on the parts of my life that suck and ultimately, if I dwell on it too long, makes me unhappier and more worried about the future. Took me a while to get to this point though. Not easy lessons to learn (and I am sill relearning some of them over and over LOL).
Instead of blaming your lot in life on the boomers (some/many of whom are upset that the generation above them cut off the pensions so retirement for many of them will suck since way more than half don’t have even remotely enough saved; some of whom also blame the big bubble of people for preventing them from getting the promotions they deserved, thus the pay raises they deserved, etc.) it might be worth thinking about the things you can control and try to do something about that. Doing so isn’t going to make most of your problems go away, but you might be surprised about things you can do, even if they are small things, that will make the life you do have somewhat better (even if it is in little ways), thus make you a bit happier. Blaming the boomers, being envious of the boomers, or whatever isn’t going to do about your life or make it better. Unfortunately. And there may be nothing you can do about some things, but in my opinion, trying to direct efforts at things I can control, however small, getting outside of myself to try to help others, does help my attitude which then affects my happiness, even if it doesn’t change the underlying issues that got me into this situation to begin with.
@Doggo19@Kidsandliz@ShotgunX is not cause the cheapest place for sale is sub 50K and"normal" for most of the country is below 200K. High population centers and cities mess it up but why on Earth do people want to live there
Re recycling:
You either know some really lame boomers or they are giving you troll responses. I dunno.
Why not blame an entire generation for that behavior? Whatever’s fun. Do it.
Commonplace enough argumentative tactic at the moment.
Around here boomers are the reason recycling exists, and they visibly, and by city council blather, are the most avid recyclers.
I wasn’t even alive when the decisions were made (or the neglect had happened) to let the world turn into this nightmare.
No one I’m aware of blames you personally for the sick state of the world. Yes some people do bitch about millennials. They’re mostly wrong, but it’s all turned into a vaguely humorous cultural meme and bitch-habit, so the bitching will be around for a while.
So I’m not sure how I’m supposed to not blame the responsible generation(s).
[[[Aside: (And how, exactly, does that help anything?)
Nevermind.]]]
Hate to say this, because I think you do try, and you work hard at it.
But people are not supposed to “blame the [alleged, and to some degree true] [so-called] ‘responsible generations’” because that’s very simplistic and totally pointless. And because it comes off as trolling, due to the pointlessness.
And because adult well-read people are supposed to have a far better grasp of how history and progress and social mores and human understanding and political and personal conduct change do and don’t likely happen. So that what people say is useful to the forward movement of the conversation, and, one hopes, to the issues.
Of course no conversant participant has to buy into that set of purposes if they don’t want to.
And diff peeps have different senses of what needs to be brought into the conversations and how complex the understandings need to be.
And there is Ye Olde Saw:
“you can’t argue with fools”.
If you think a given selection of people likely are fools, it’s prob a waste of good time and energy to talk with them. (Including me).
@ShotgunX Each generation inherits problems from the previous generation - no generation had a fresh, clean, no problem start in this world. Each generation inherits advantages too. The 98 cent calculator that was $100 in the early 1970’s, powerful computers that help with the development of so much, new drugs that cure 90+% of childhood leukemia… None of which was available when the boomers were young or even for the oldest of that generation, younger middle aged.
It is, in my opinion, our collective, multi generational responsibility to try to fix what we can and try to prevent what we can. Because problems and solutions are complex, are embedded into a complex interrelated context, have intended and unintended consequences, not everything is predictable. In addition there are some high functioning sociopaths, etc. who achieve positions of power who aren’t interested in solutions - rather are interested in personal gain (some CEOs and VPs of companies, some politicians, etc.)… As a result this isn’t always easy.
@Kidsandliz It’s a bit tangential at this point, but I kind of want to say that a portion of those problems were self-made. No, I don’t blame you for that, because I know that mistakes are normal, and sometimes you expect your choices to lead to a certain outcome, and then a different thing happens, etc. But children, for example, are a good example of that. You might love them, but they aren’t exactly sustainable in your current circumstances (as you’ve described them), and it’s not a good idea to have them if you can’t properly provide for them.
I personally know a bunch of people who had/got trapped with kids they never intended or wanted to have, and all of those people exhibit the same destructive focus on short-term gratification. How does my generation deal with this? We either eschew romance entirely, or take extreme precautions to ensure we don’t have them. And that’s the generational juxtaposition I’m trying to highlight here; that the older ones have been able to get through life on impulse, while the new ones have to be more careful, plan harder, and compensate for the mistakes of others. That’s where the unfairness lies, and not in an individual’s issues with getting a promotion here, buying a house there, et cetera. The former is the cause of the latter, anyway. Carelessness, ignorance, and selfishness caused our systemic issues. Boomers are the ones who have sat in their castles and in their managerial roles for the last few decades, and they are the ones who drove housing costs to incomprehensible levels, and made it so you need an advanced degree and five years of experience to apply for an entry-level job scanning documents and licking envelopes.
It sounds like you’ve been dealt a really bad hand in life, and that sucks. But I’m sure that your life would be better today if our social structure wasn’t screwed up by these locusts. Letting things get this bad through inaction is no less a crime than actively working to make them this way. Anyway, I just want to reiterate that I’m not complaining how bad things are for myself (I’ve actually been fairly lucky so far, and can even afford to drop some cash on this site occasionally), but how bad they are for everyone. I’d be willing to send you a few bucks or a gift card or whatever so you can take your kids somewhere fun - let me know if you’re interested.
@unksol It’s a combination of having lived there for a long time (so your roots are already planted so to speak with friends and family), better employment opportunities overall, and difficulties with committing to reset your life from scratch. For example, my skill set revolves around finance and IT; it would become worthless if I were to move to Anytown, USA. Sure, housing would cost half as much, but I would also be making half as much after downgrading myself to a warehouse worker, or an Arby’s assistant manager, or whatever.
@f00l Nah, they’re not trolling. They’re not self-aware enough to know how to troll.
@f00l@Kidsandliz@ShotgunX I said you could make it work at a lower paying job if you wanted or needed to. I didn’t say you should be a warehouse worker or work at McDonald’s. I work from home as as a technical programming lead for a major company. my pay grade is pretty much guaranteed to be lower than someone required to be on site in California for a client but the cost of living makes up for it.
@unksol That still sounds like a fairly privileged situation that not everyone would be able to work their way into. And there’s also a lot of risk attached. What if the job is lost? You might not necessarily be able to get another one just like that, and then it’s off to fast food you go, since bills still need to be paid. Would it be wise to risk the relative security someone has for an extra few hundred dollars in the pocket every month via housing cost savings?
Re not self-aware enough to troll. Don’t be too sure. The most primitive and least educated peoples everywhere know how to troll. Seems to be built in. And are sly about it.
As for the generational thing: I guess blame the boomers if that makes you happy. It’s a (to me) quite primitive analysis of how practices and policy happen. Besides, much of what you object to was done by pre-boomer generations
Econ and “corp practice” history are pretty complex breasts in themselves, and are blown by strong political winds. And “greatest generation” members, not boomers, implemented most of that policy and sharpened and sold most of the various econ arguments that formed the basis of polical economy philosophy and political party econ philosophy for the last 70 years.
And much of that was based on “what was saleable”.
And have you ever noticed that even professional big-name econ people are often kinda clueless in their overall high perspective?
Perhaps the boomers should have challenged and overthrown all that.
But the last election should tell is that what wins elections are calls to myth, anger, basic national philosophy, and the associated fundamental beliefs and emotions.
For better or for worse, that.
(since many of the big “academic political POV arguments” turn out to look very much like just so much fancy bullshit after a few decades of perspective.)
Political change is a damned hard slog. Sometimes it’s easier to hand out blame than to try to make things improve.
And reading deeply in history is a worthy thing. As long as the reader varies the sources, goes for plenty of “firsthand” and HQ, distrusts anyone who “knows they are right”, and maintains high scepticism.
@ShotgunX So people should emotionally traumatize kids and put them in the foster care system just because they are poor? Do you even realize the damage done to kids who are abandoned by the parents they love? Are you aware of the damage the chaos in the foster care system does to many of them? DHS in this state has been taken over by the feds because it was so bad - not that there is much improvement now though. FYI kids are not removed from their homes for poverty reasons alone. Also in many states if you voluntarily abandon your children to foster care you then have a felony child abuse charge on your record. Try finding a job with that on your record.
My child, by the way, is 27, adopted at 10 and was severely damaged by what she went through prior to when I adopted her (although I was not informed of most of her problems before I adopted her).These are her kids. I am trying to keep them going down the same rabbit hole. There is not one legitimate reason to remove them from their home because several of us are plugging the holes.
You might not necessarily be able to get another one just like that, and then it’s off to fast food you go,
I live in flyover America. Housing far more cheap than the coasts by far.
If someone has a good resume history in tech, they will be in a decent tech job market and be able to get something decent unless they are just a newbie. Or are rural or in a small town.
It isn’t the coding or IT job apocalypse here.
No it won’t pay like Silicon Valley. Yeah it will pay quite enough for a housing purchase in flyover country if it pays well anywhere.
Housing costs distortions based on location are far more extreme than some other location based econ distortions. (such as income)
How does my generation deal with this? We either eschew romance entirely, or take extreme precautions to ensure we don’t have them.
Ummm… the number of kids born to single parents is higher than in the boomer generation; also the number of kids in poverty is much higher than it was with the boomers. The boomer generation only had 10% born out of wedlock and that number has steadily risen over time. That number is now around 40%.
Don’t think your generation is using as much birth control as the boomers were, although the average age of being a first time parent is higher than it was.
@ShotgunX it’s not. But I worry about that. Lots of people have been laid off over the years. Major companies treat their workers like shit. That’s why I said that I COULD probably pay the mortgage working at Walmart in an emergency is an advantage. While I interview at other places. Remote or having to drive 2 hours. I don’t want to do any of that. But id rather drive 2 hours both ways than live in a crappy place. I worked this job before the pay caught up. which is salary and on call. Plus another 30 hour night shift weekend job for years. There are better places to live and if you insist on staying in a shitty place. Well you have the right to bitch but… Don’t expect much sympathy
@stolicat just wanted to come here to say DS is what I call the new stray kitty. When I’m being polite. But she really can be a dumb shit. And she seems to come to both that and Coco… But I very much like her and if you could just ship her back… Oh. Uh… Never mind… There she is…
@stolicat apparently they now clone cats AND boxes. I’d post a pic but you’ve already seen her. Here I thought she snuck in some random box I mailed out.
@stolicat maybe she teleported back… ignore her. She’s a total bitch about when I pick up her shit or refill the food or water fountain. DS isn’t going to starve. She probably does whine
This should be my theme song this year. In early June I hurt my back and was in pain and pretty useless until the end of July. Now I feel like I missed the best part of the season and all those grand (but probably mostly unrealistic) plans I started with are but gauzy wisps of cloud dreamily dispersing in the August breeze. Shit.
In California, the weather is great until the end of October, and in recent years, into November. My favorite time of year is September-October. It’s warm, the kids are back in school (not that I have them, but they’re out of the venues I go to) and generally things are less busy.
Summer around here isn’t almost gone. It was 97 today with a heat index of over 100. I was up north at my mom’s until a couple of days ago. Pleasant where she lives and the first two gas fill ups, including when filling up the gas in southern IL late afternoon/early evening (can’t remember but the sun was out). Then at 11pm in Memphis doing the same thing and opened the car door to a blast furnace. Wasn’t any better when I got home after 2am.
@Kidsandliz That’s always been my thing…
“You can put clothes on until you get comfortable… I can only take off so much until I get arrested… and I’ll still be hot!”
I was sitting on an American Airlines flight last weekend, and this song randomly got stuck in my head when a dad told his son “summer’s almost gone”.
I’ve been humming and singing it since.
And as tradition holds, I will say that summer absolutely sucks if you’re an adult, or at least a young adult. Most of us don’t get to work any less than usual, but have to deal with the heat which we can’t do anything about because we can’t afford air conditioning, and listening to shitty boomers brag to anyone within earshot about their vacations.
@ShotgunX
/youtube get a haircut and get a real job
@2many2no But I already work two, and all the hair fell out a long time ago, when my tuition loans became due…
@ShotgunX You may have found the biggest boomer advantage.
We are old enough to have gone to school before the price of college skyrocketed. University of Texas resident tuition is more than 100 times what it was when I went there, and I imagine the numbers are similar everywhere else.
New graduates don’t get paid more than me, although pay has gone up about 8 fold since I graduated. Going to college was a no-brainer in the 60’s and 70’s, but now has become a much more difficult choice.
@2many2no That, and housing. And health care. And everything else.
Can we start dragging you silver-spoon fuckers out into the streets and executing you yet?
@2many2no @ShotgunX nope. Chill a little. Just blame the scapegoat
@nolrak bleat bleat.
@2many2no @tinamarie1974 Fine, I guess I’ll go and kill another industry to take my mind off of this. What will it be this time? Shredded cheese? Seersucker suits? Red Solo cups? The possibilities are endless!
@ShotgunX @tinamarie1974 No silver spoons here. Most of us started out making around 80¢ to $1 an hour. Life is always tough when you’re starting out.
And inflation’s a given, it’s never going away. Everything goes up. 20¢ gas is $3. The first new car I bought was $3000, just bought one for wifey, it was $30,000 (and that’s still less than the median price of about $35,000.) Paid $50K for my house, the one across the street just went up for sale at over $200K.
But I can’t think of anything else that’s (legally) gone up a hundred fold in 50 years. Not even healthcare. Colleges are taking advantage of the increase in financial aid and jacking the price so that you now need massive loans. They’re gaming the system, but pricing themselves way above market value.
@2many2no @tinamarie1974 Don’t get me wrong, I do agree about colleges. That’s why, when I felt I was being rubed in private school (which seemed to be intentionally not teaching well to keep students behind and repeating classes), I transferred to a cheap local school, and finished my degree there.
But college is selective, while things like food and healthcare aren’t. When I broke a bone last year, the 90-minute surgery to put a few ounces of plates and screws inside cost $50,000. The 325mg Tylenol they gave me in the emergency room before that had a distinct figure on the bill: $217. Fortunately, I was insured.
Then we can look at food. A loaf of decent bread is four bucks. Seven bucks a pound for chicken breast. Want some fish? Salmon is $12.99 a pound. And that’s if you have the time and/or strength to cook at home - most people my age don’t. What’s the alternative? A bare minimum of $10 per pound at a buffet. You can chase it with an $8 happy hour beer, which comes out to an even $10 after tax and tip. Or you can race to the bottom of the casket by shoving canned Goya beans down your gullet.
But all that aside, here’s the kicker: where I live, a tiny studio apartment in an unsavory part of town costs at least $1,600 to rent, which is almost $20,000 a year, which is way above 50% of net income for an average ~30-year-old.
Someone broke these markets, and it wasn’t the people who just came of age.
@2many2no @ShotgunX @tinamarie1974 the first car I bought was from my dad for $500 after replacing the headgasket. I did the work then some asshole totalted me and I swapped the engine into the parts car . the only car I’ve bought from a dealer was In 2004. Was 1999 Saturn SL. It was $1650. And she’s still running at 240K. And I’m not even 35.
@ShotgunX omfg… Where the hell does your crazy ass live???
“Then we can look at food. A loaf of decent bread is four bucks. Seven bucks a pound for chicken breast. Want some fish? Salmon is $12.99 a pound. And that’s if you have the time and/or strength to cook at home - most people my age don’t. What’s the alternative? A bare minimum of $10 per pound at a buffet. You can chase it with an $8 happy hour beer, which comes out to an even $10 after tax and tip. Or you can race to the bottom of the casket by shoving canned Goya beans down your gullet.”
@unksol Big city. I do acknowledge that it’s not like this everywhere (especially with housing), but employment opportunities elsewhere would also be lower.
@ShotgunX they doc your pay if you work from home cause cost of living. But it’s better than paying. $4 for bread you can make or $7 a lb for chicken breast when the norm is $2
@ShotgunX @tinamarie1974 If you follow the money, the most broken markets are those where someone else pays. Healthcare is the prime example. The providers attempt to get the best reimbursement, hovering around 16¢ on a $1, so they bill exorbitant amounts for everything. The insurers, who claim to be on your side, actually make a cut off the top (kind of like casino gambling profits) so their incentive is to maximize the size of the pie. The patient’s view is, “I’m not paying, so give me the best.” These factors combine to drive up the cost of everything.
As a result, healthcare costs almost always rise faster than inflation. Similar forces are at work whenever the consumer and payer are separated. Even paying with a card instead of cash insulates cost enough to subtly increase spending. And of course, marketers know all the social and psychological tricks to drive up perceived value. (“Location, location, location.”)
But if boomers broke the system (doubtful) they are fixing to pay the price, because they are now retiring, typically on an income that will no longer rise with the prices of things.
/youtube no rose garden
@ShotgunX - don’t worry medicare will kill the boomers pretty quickly since it is only the illusion of good coverage. Over and over research has documented that outcomes are best for private insurance (umm duh), then medicaid and then tied for last medicare and the uninsured. Now I am sure they have partly screwed up the dependent variable as there are many combinations people have with respect to medicare, some people have paid for B, gap and drug (although drug doesn’t help people much as goodrx coupons tend to be cheaper according to some research I have seen) and I’d guess their outcomes would be a bit better than the uninsured, but those with just A and maybe A&B (certainly B with no gap and cancer wouldn’t do well) would be about on par with the uninsured for sure. So yeah medicare is actually a plot to kill the elderly sooner rather than later all while deluding them into thinking they have good coverage. So you will have your wish without sullying your hands with murder.
@ShotgunX Where on earth big city do you live? Silicon Valley? Bread here is $1.00 to maybe $3/loaf at the high end (most around $2 to about $2.50). Your rent gets me a 2000sf house in a decent part of town here. Chicken is around $3-5/pound depending on what you buy although 4 big chicken breasts run around $5. Blueberries currently are $2.50/pint and cherries $2.99-3.99/pound. I eat on around $120-150/mo and right now that includes some blueberries and cherries (although I do not eat out).
@2many2no @ShotgunX @tinamarie1974 whiplash! First I had to listen to fucking George fucking thorough fucking good, but then I got to rewatch that hilarious SNL skit about boomers and millennials.
I’m GenX, and I feel like I can be a calm, dispassionate voice of reason in this arena, by saying that America has fully entered its Late Imperial Flab Era, that we are all spoiled babies who have no idea what ungodly levels of economic, social, political and climate fuckery is about to start pounding down our collective door.
But we’re all in this together! And if we treat our neighbor as our friend, we’ll all do better during the fuckstopalypse.
(Also: boomers got an insane free ride and blithely destroyed all possibility of a good future, so they should be hunted down an exterminated like cane toads.)
Oh sorry! I mean: kumbayah, my lord. kumbayah.
@carl669
@ShotgunX @tinamarie1974 @UncleVinny If you eliminate all the boomers, all you kids will need to find a new place to live…
@2many2no @ShotgunX @UncleVinny I literally snorted I laughed so hard. Thanks for that!
@Kidsandliz Medicare might not be so great, but an important factor that generally gets overlooked is that boomers have pretty hefty savings. Sure, some of them are struggling to make ends meet like the rest of us chumps, but it’s not as bad for them. Plus, many of them own a lot of property. It is this wealth that will be tapped to pay off their medical bills, instead of being passed on to their children and grandchildren. At least, what remains after their trips to Atlantic City and falling for Nigerian prince scams. We’re seeing an increasing trend of medical and nursing home providers using legal means to drain these savings. For example, it’s becoming quite a hassle to get nursing home care without emptying your bank accounts and selling off your residence these days. And many more procedures are starting to become labeled as “cosmetic,” which insurance doesn’t cover.
The corporations won’t let these people die that easily, no, not until they’re done squeezing them for every dime they have. They’ll be hooked up to machines, eating liver’n’onions in liquid form through tubes in their noses, while the rest of us work three shifts to be able to afford to buy back our childhood homes from the banks after the repossessions.
Meanwhile, I’m eating kale and doing 5-mile runs, not because I’m trying to be pretty enough to get laid (no, that’s pointless anyway, since all of us are too tired after coming home from work at 11 PM to go out on dates), but because I’m terrified of catching the same shit that these burger-guzzling fuckers have by age 50, and know that there won’t even be anyone to drive me to the hospital, forcing me to die on the floor of my dystopian, Japanese capsule hotel-sized room, because paying for a first-class airline ticket price-level ambulance ride would postpone my retirement by another three decades.
@ShotgunX +1 for “burger-guzzling fuckers”
@ShotgunX You need to get your facts straight. Read the stats on what boomers have saved for retirement. Average is $158,000 when it is projected they will need $280,000 for medical care alone. BUT 42% have nothing saved and a total of 64% have nothing to $100,000 saved (as many companies don’t even offer retirement programs, let alone pensions)… those folks will be mostly or completely living off of an average of $1400/mo social security. Also that is the first generation where most will not have a pension. Running out of money will be a real problem. Then paying for drugs and medicare B (doctor visits) and gap insurance will be an additional problem.
It is the government that has set the rules for medicare and their incentive is to keep the costs of medicare A (no premiums) and social security down. If people die younger the government pays out less for those. Medicare does not cover nursing homes or assisted living so those folks will not be kept alive (research documents that outcomes are worse - eg die sooner - for those on medicare who are tied with the uninsured). Medicaid paid for nursing home care requires almost no assets NOR income. There is also a limit to the number of days medicare lets people even stay in the hospital. Not to mention that there is no pre-existing condition protection past when you have to first sign up. Let gap lapse and people have to pass medical underwriting to get it back. Most won’t pass that. Chemo for my cancer #3 was (in 2011) a bit over $176,000 negotiated rate. Fortunately I had good employer insurance. Had I had medicare and no gap it would have cost me a bit over $35,200. Doesn’t take much to exhaust resources when things like that happen to people. As it is the drug insurance has limited formularies and doesn’t save people much. Research has documented that coupon programs like goodrx actually mean drugs cost less than via medicare.
The boomer bubble tends to wreck things in every cycle of life they pass through due society not planning ahead for that. You can blame WW2 for all those babies born - it is not the fault of the boomers that they are in a huge generation. Right now there already isn’t enough senior HUD, assisted living nor inexpensive retirement centers. They aren’t being built very fast either because the government has cut back on that. Of course at the other end of the boomer bubble some things will be over built because the baby bust generation won’t fill all those facilities. Due to no pensions for 3/4 of the boomers (the first generation mostly without that) and insufficient in retirement (many companies do not offer retirement programs and the limit on what can be invested in IRA’s means you can’t put in enough) many will run out of money and there will not be enough HUD to house them. The problem of homelessness in the elderly, especially the really old elderly is projected to grow significantly since many elderly try to stay in their own homes until their late 70’s.
Boomers relying on their house for their retirement will be in for a shock. There aren’t enough in the generations under them who buy those sizes of houses. Thus the value will go down because there will be an over supply. In addition many of those are post 1968 homes and many of them have major structural components that only have a 50 or so year life span and thus will need expensive repairs. Good bye more home value. There will be competition between boomers and new home buyers for the starter homes that either have a bedroom on the first floor or are ranch homes (the rich boomers can build what they need). Actually in some markets that has already started to happen.
Most boomers aren’t wealthy, don’t go on expensive trips. Many work well past 70 as they can’t afford to retire. This, of course, is harder for those who do manual labor and those who have major medical issues. 11% of retired seniors get food stamps. Far more than that just barely miss qualifying. These folks have less money than you do. Look here for median income of 3 different generations. https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-income-millennial-gen-x-baby-boomers-every-state-us-2018-7#arkansas-4 The difference isn’t as great as you’d think between the boomers and the generation below them (not to mention it takes time to be promoted). Most folks in any generation aren’t wealthy.
@Kidsandliz But if it’s that bad for boomers, what does it say for everyone under them if recent research is showing that they’re still comparatively wealthier today, and were comparatively wealthier at different points throughout their lives? Having some savings by retirement is still better than having no savings by retirement, which is how most of my manifesto-thumping compatriots will wind up. They’re saying stuff like “most millennials don’t have enough in reserve to be able to cover a $400 emergency,” when boomers (and to a lesser extent Gen-Xers) did at the same age. We can’t just say “oh, it’s okay, millennials will figure out how to catch up financially later.” Having a house that you can’t sell to anyone because they don’t have the money to buy it is still better than spending over 1,000,000 lifetime dollars on rent, with zero equity to your name, because it’s financially impossible to make a down payment or pay a mortgage while still being able to afford to eat. Right?
@ShotgunX Look at the average income by generation link I gave you. Not much difference between what the median boomers are earning and the generation under them - on average only $4-6000 a year more than the generation under them. Of course the youngest generation is going to earn less as they are just starting out and haven’t worked long enough to have more promotions/seniority raises.
But again you are making assumptions about the easy life and tons of money boomers have. Read this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/21/financial-mistakes-baby-boomers-dont-have-emergency-funds/39589709/
and you will see there are a ton of boomers with no savings, not enough savings, not enough in retirement and not because they spent it all on opulent lifestyles either… Tons of boomers have working class jobs earning not that much more than their younger co-workers and then only earning more due to seniority. In fact more boomers have blue collar jobs than the Generation X and Millennials. Those two generations have more education than the boomers and so those two generations are going to have more of the more highly paid jobs, more supervisor jobs…
Heck I was 28 before I felt I could afford a used car. But that was also a choice because I chose to do something for a living that was a lot of fun but paid like shit. My sisters saw what I was doing without (in a material sense) and missed what I had (experiences) and so chose different career paths. And yes I finally went back to school to go into a different career to earn more money because I realized if I didn’t I’d be living in poverty in retirement (due to 3 major cancers and the financial toxicity of that I will be living in poverty in retirement anyway - best laid plans blah blah blah).
But I also knew how to save and so no matter how little I was earning I always had some money in the bank. That has severed me well though job loss due to cancers, layoffs… Twice I have lived below the poverty line (am living that way right now). I chose to live in a shed in someone’s back yard once to save money when I was really broke (HUD has a long waiting list). I could have gone through my savings and lived in a nicer place but my priority was conserving cash. Again, a lot of this is about choices. Don’t buy an expensive phone, get a flip phone and cheaper phone card. Don’t buy a new car, buy a 8-10 year old used one. Use an antenna instead of paying for cable… It is, of course, worth making sure you have something decent if your income depends on it, but there are plenty of things that don’t require “good” or even require that you own it all.
I think it is also perhaps related to expectations for what you will own, how long you will hang on to it… (my daughter called our van that died at 25 years and 3 mo the ghetto van because of what it looked like but hanging on to that saved me major bucks, made it easy to find in a parking lot and I could care less what people thought of it or me driving it. I was more focused on saving money). Many boomers have/had parents who lived through the depression and so felt it important to be frugal - which rubbed off on many of the boomers, and so they lived below their means. It is all about choices in that respect (of course for those living at or below the poverty line there are other issues involved too).
I think your complaints/envy are/is misplaced with respect to blame and/or what you presume other generations have… or from your point of view apparently handed to them - these folks worked their butts off for what they have - they weren’t handed things any more than those in any other generation were handed things - only the rich can afford to hand their kids stuff and all generations have some rich folks. With the boomer generation many were drafted against their will and fought in wars they didn’t want to fight in which interrupted plans, came with other costs… of course each generation has its own share of “bad stuff”.
You said yourself you live in a very expensive part of the country. Of course that is going to make life harder; make it harder to save. So apply for jobs elsewhere and move once you get one. I have lived (and currently live) in some areas of the country that suck bricks for a variety of reasons. I have stayed away from some jobs I’d have really like to have that were in really expensive parts of the country. Given better choices I wouldn’t have lived in some places I did (others were nice), but I lived in those places because it was a good balance between salary, cost of living and the job. Perhaps not my first choice of location, but based on a balance of priorities those choices seemed like good ones at the time (although with 20/20 hindsight I made a few mistakes).
One of the things I see in the traditional aged (though the late 20’s) college students I teach is that many of them don’t feel they should have to “pay their dues”; they expect they will walk into supervisor jobs with mid career pay without having to work their way up to those things and actually have worked long enough - worked long enough while also having for that length of time the right credentials - to even be mid career at that level. It comes as a great shock to them that life doesn’t work that way. I am not saying this is you as I know little about you, your circumstances, etc., but I do think it contributes to some of the entitlement attitudes that some of the younger people have.
Life is not easy for most people in all generations. There are costs and benefits with choices. There are consequences of choices (both intended and unintended). Bad shit falls into many people’s lives that can upend even best laid plans. We have to make choices to do things we don’t want to do, or given a choice (which we may or may not have) wouldn’t in this life time ever choose to do. It sucks. But then again it is what it is. Boomers have always had too many people and not enough of X (be it too few promotional opportunities per worker, competition to even get into careers - for example during boomer times 1 in 6 who wanted to go to med school got in, now it is 1 in 3…). In the long run each generation has its own set of challenges to deal with. They aren’t necessarily harder, they are just different.
@ShotgunX PS the biggest problem with respect to retirement is the demise of pensions for most people. The folks currently in the generations above the boomers are the last generations where a large number had pensions. Boomers will be the first generation where most don’t. Something like 26% will have pensions, most of those are government employees, public school teachers…
Research has documented that millennials are saving more for retirement than boomers are
http://money.com/money/5640466/this-chart-shows-how-much-millennials-gen-x-and-baby-boomers-have-saved-for-retirement-see-how-you-compare/ millennials and boomers both save 10% of their income, but millennials started sooner so that will result in a bigger pot of money in the end. Of course many boomers started out with the promise of pensions that were then turned into non-pension retirement plans which would have affected that some. Millennials will have saved less total in comparison to boomer because they are younger and saved for fewer years.
@ShotgunX
So apply for a job you’d like in cheaper cities and when you finally get one then move. That way the fewer employment opportunities won’t matter as you will already have a job. If you hate that job or area in the end you can repeat the process (hunt for job then move). Since you said you are going to die alone with no one you won’t have dual career issues to deal with nor issues of kids and not moving them too many times while they are in K-12.
@Kidsandliz @ShotgunX I mean no one wants to buy a home they don’t intend to stay in. Unless they are super sure they can sell it quickly to move to a new job. I don’t want to move. So close to options can matter. But if you paying 1600 for a hole in wall when you could buy a nice house for $600 a month and get equity. Yeah you need to change your approach. Cities suck
@Kidsandliz @unksol Well yeah, we’re saving what we can since a younger age (and not everyone is even able to do this, but I digress), but that’s only because we can see just how bad things are going to get. Also, just because we’re saving more, doesn’t mean that we’ll have more money in the end. Our piece of the pie will be affected by smaller SS payments, especially since we’re not having any kids, who will be the ones paying into the system once we start retiring.
Personally, while I’m very frugal, I genuinely don’t expect to continue living past about 50 or so, ± a few years depending on health factors. I’m trying to live a very healthy life style so that I can stretch my 30s for as long as possible, but once that starts going, I’m checking out. I won’t miss it. I don’t even miss it now. It’s just a daily cycle of eat work sleep eat work sleep and nothing else. It’s a meaningless existence in my eyes.
By the way, here’s what $600 currently gets you in NYC: https://nypost.com/2019/08/16/condo-owner-busted-for-building-being-john-malkovich-like-4th-1-2-floor/
The cheapest rents I’ve seen when browsing real estate were about $500 for sharing a single <200 ft² room with another person. And that comes with all the dangers of not having a contract. Otherwise, studios start at about $1,200, but at that price, they would be really bad and/or in really bad neighborhoods.
@Kidsandliz @ShotgunX I’m 34. I’m not thrilled with my job or my pay. I should probably look for better work. I should get paid way more But I don’t totally hate it. I could probably work at Walmart for less than half what I make and still pay the mortgage if there was an emergency. There are better things out there if you get out of the hell of nyc. Where even working at a gas station gets you a decent place.
@Kidsandliz @ShotgunX there’s one large factor that everyone avoids discussing. The Post-War economy for the USA was extremely strong cause all the competition from Europe and Asia was in ruins. Everyone on earth was ‘buying american’ because their countries were destroyed.
Secondly, the only other large advanced economy, the USSR, was embargoed in the west. So even though Soviet labor was much cheaper (like China in the modern day) they could not legally sell anything to the west, once again maximizing the USA’s economic advantage.
Nowadays, with free trade, you have Asian sweatshops and robotics. So, yes, Boomers (in this country) DID have it easy. Everything is cyclical though.
@Doggo19 @ShotgunX And now the low interest rates that benefits younger generations over those close to or in retirement. House mortgage rates were really high years ago (up to 16+% and for years hovering 8-13%), now they are low (in the 3-4% range). That difference is huge with respect to monthly payment rates. The interest rate longer term drops affects boomers in a different (negative) way as it lowers the value of their retirement at a point it becomes risky to have a lot in the stock market as there is less time to recover from a crash. So interest rates favor the younger generations and is a determent to boomers.
@Kidsandliz @ShotgunX lol imagine actually owning a house to mortgage
@Doggo19 Well it affects your rent too. The landlord has to make ends meet too.
@Doggo19 @Kidsandliz What good is a low interest rate if the cheapest place for sale is half a million dollars, when fifty years ago it was a fifth of that, adjusted for inflation?
Also, all the real estate around here is owned by banks, massive developers, and dynastic old Jews, none of whom have to worry about “making ends meet,” though of course they’ll feed you that line with every yearly 15% rent increase.
Sorry, I just can’t feel pity for boomers. No matter how you look at it, they are comparatively more well-off than any generation after (or even before) them, and are projected to be more well-off than other generations when they hit the same age. And saying that millennials or whatever aren’t going to be behind in the end if they just apply some elbow grease, do some heavy lifting, and accept a different quality and style of life is fundamentally unfair.
@Doggo19 @Kidsandliz @ShotgunX
I don’t think anyone asked anyone for pity.
Pity or don’t pity. Whatever.
The economy has already changed far beyond what common conversations seem to assume it to be.
Housing healthcare education banking/$ communications food etc are all gamed now.
These are no longer trad businesses offering products or services for money. These are gamed industries that are manipulated as far as possible by big $, nickel-and-$ their way to becoming increasingly beneficial only to the already-wealthy.
For everyone else: you work, you pay, you lose.
Rich people (really really rich people) gain.
I suspect that soon we will be at the point where housing (either owned or rented) will be considered “optional” and a “luxury item” by much of the middle class, even in the Midwest and deep South. Already that way in some places. Like wherever @ShogunX lives. Like Silicon Valley and Seattle and NYC etc.
Yes, the baby boomers are guilty of various generational financial and character sins.
So are the GenX, the millennials, and everyone else over 18. Our personal internal casual econ models are just way out of date. (Same with the big fancy academic models)
If we define middle class the trad nostalgic oft- unspoken way of having:
savings, and a retirement plan,
affordable healthcare, (yeah sure)
access to decent food (who knows what is in lots of current food)
tolerable housing (ha ha ha)
affordable edu and continuing education adequate to the middle class challenges (again ha ha ha)
reasonable survival knowledge to meet modern challenges
ability to raise educate and care for children
ability to care for the elderly
some time off to breathe
some opportunities for community and commonality
good affordable opportunities for econ self improvement
Etc
Guess what’s going going gone?
Furthermore were doing such a bad job of this, that we’re practically begging China to “win”.
But over here it’s so very important to let big $ interests of all kinds do what they want without asking too many serious questions.
And it’s so important to let foreign and domestic trollers hijack serious conversation.
And it’s so important to blame one generation or another. Right?
I’d prefer we (as a culture) got serious, turned down the volume a bit, cranked up the quality of discourse and conduct, and tried to find a way forward.
I’m not betting on that happening in the US in 2019 or 2020.
@Doggo19 @f00l @Kidsandliz @ShogunX I wasn’t even alive when the decisions were made (or the neglect had happened) to let the world turn into this nightmare. So I’m not sure how I’m supposed to not blame the responsible generation(s).
I live my life with as small a footprint as possible. I don’t have credit card debt. I don’t gorge myself on salt and sugar, knowing that there’s going to be someone to pick up the health care bill down the line. I recycle all my plastics, paper, and metals (I even recycle used aluminium foil). Why should I take the high road, and attempt to have “discourse” about these problems? I’ve already tried that anyway, and the boomers don’t give a shit. When I ask them why they’re dumping Coke cans or clean cardboard into the trash, when the recycling bins are right fucking there, the responses I’ve received were either “oh it doesn’t matter it all just goes to the same place anyway” or “I’m old, I don’t care because I’m too busy, leave me alone.”
No, “discourse” is inconsequential at this point. The world would be much better off if I helped drag these fuckers out into the town square for their public beheadings.
@carl669
@ShotgunX News flash - for some people in each generation life is unfair. It is what it is. What goes on “globally” in our country is generally more in the hands of the wealthy than the rest of us and so on a fundamental level, as individuals, we have little we can change on our own. We can vote and hope whomever wins acts in the best interests of those who are not wealthy a bit more than what is currently going on. We can get involved with groups that work to get things changed. We can help those with closed minds open them a bit to how we might begin to solve some of the issues this country has that is hurting those who are not rick, the environment, the economy, the vulnerable, etc.
I’ve had a pile of “unfair” things happen to me (as have so many others - just read the different threads on this forum to get a sampling of some of the really, really bad shit that has hit the lives of some of the forum members here). In my case major cancers 3x, one with no cure that, collectively, have eaten much of my money and caused me to lose my job (and no I don’t have disability as I can still work but after the gap in my vitae having trouble finding permanent employment - lots of temp jobs). Bought a house at the very, very beginning of the housing crash (in a small, cheap college town or I wouldn’t have been able to do that) before we knew that was happening, then was under water and sold low after nearly 3 years on the market in the recession with me living 2500 miles away. Lost a wad. Living in around 450sf apt in HUD with food stamps at the moment. Then my 25 year old car permanently died. My 13 year old used replacement got backed over by a commercial truck with no rear bumper and totaled out. My current nearly10 year old used car needs nearly $3000 in stuff from tires to a hood cable to a transmission flush and more. Don’t have the money right now for any of that. Then (this is lucky actually) my car missed being one of the 9 broken into not so long ago where I live. The car 2 cars over was stolen a couple of months before that. A shooting a block away at the gas station around a week ago. Day time muggings. Nice neighborhood. Not. Who would have thought I’d be living like this after returning to school and getting a PhD and then getting a good college teaching job? ROI on that is now big time negative. School loans from that are still around though. My list is a lot longer than that… My 2 sisters have done quite well for themselves (well their husbands have anyway - they don’t have to work for a living, although they both do on and off) and so far the big bad shit that fucks with your life nearly wrecking it has missed them both. So far anyway.
All of that crap was stuff that I either couldn’t have anticipated or had no control over. But it hasn’t stopped me from doing things that make my life a bit more pleasant. I do volunteer work with cats and hospice (and the chronic fatigue I have from the one cancer and damage from chemo means sometimes it takes some will power to get my ass out the door to do it but it is worth doing; worth being “needed”; makes me happier). Dumpster diving has helped me stockpile, more or less, several years of clothing for the kids (although the boys not so much so as less boys clothes get donated) until they put in a trash compactor not so long ago. Because I sold something I found in the dumpster right at the same time someone else’s need was greater than mine (homeless guy who dumpster dived there who was robbed of all his stuff including his tent) I bought a $25 tent at walmart for him. Then when he found a little kid spiderman 2 wheeler with training wheels bike in the dumpster he gave it to me instead of selling it. Bingo! A birthday present I didn’t have to buy. I was thrilled. The kid was thrilled. Stuff comes back to you in unexpected ways. Life can still be grim, and I can still be discouraged and have anxiety about my financial future, but there are unexpected pleasures that come from forcing myself to get out of my own misery and take control over what I can control.
Sucks. All of it (well not for my sisters). But that isn’t going to change anything and so it is my responsibility to deal with the hand life has dealt me, make the best of it and do what I can to keep my head above water. Sure it can get discouraging at times and some of the choices I am forced to make stink… like sleeping in my car instead of renting a motel room when headed to the cancer center or my mom’s, selling things I saved a long time for to own - but I need the money so bye bye stuff, not being able to afford to take the 3, 5, and 6 year old to the zoo, go on the train and merry-go-round there, and to the little kid water park there sucks. They’d love it, but for the 4 of us it would cost at a minimum $49 and that is beyond my budget right now. So we go to the outdoor shopping mall and they play in the fountain (allowed) or to the huge fancy playground in another local park. They have fun. Spending my time being envious of my sisters’ lives doesn’t solve my problems (although at times I am envious) and makes me feel worse. Yes there are times I pull out the violins but I try not to as that, in the end, keeps me focused on the parts of my life that suck and ultimately, if I dwell on it too long, makes me unhappier and more worried about the future. Took me a while to get to this point though. Not easy lessons to learn (and I am sill relearning some of them over and over LOL).
Instead of blaming your lot in life on the boomers (some/many of whom are upset that the generation above them cut off the pensions so retirement for many of them will suck since way more than half don’t have even remotely enough saved; some of whom also blame the big bubble of people for preventing them from getting the promotions they deserved, thus the pay raises they deserved, etc.) it might be worth thinking about the things you can control and try to do something about that. Doing so isn’t going to make most of your problems go away, but you might be surprised about things you can do, even if they are small things, that will make the life you do have somewhat better (even if it is in little ways), thus make you a bit happier. Blaming the boomers, being envious of the boomers, or whatever isn’t going to do about your life or make it better. Unfortunately. And there may be nothing you can do about some things, but in my opinion, trying to direct efforts at things I can control, however small, getting outside of myself to try to help others, does help my attitude which then affects my happiness, even if it doesn’t change the underlying issues that got me into this situation to begin with.
@Doggo19 @Kidsandliz @ShotgunX is not cause the cheapest place for sale is sub 50K and"normal" for most of the country is below 200K. High population centers and cities mess it up but why on Earth do people want to live there
@Doggo19 @Kidsandliz @ShogunX @ShotgunX
Re recycling:
You either know some really lame boomers or they are giving you troll responses. I dunno.
Why not blame an entire generation for that behavior? Whatever’s fun. Do it.
Commonplace enough argumentative tactic at the moment.
Around here boomers are the reason recycling exists, and they visibly, and by city council blather, are the most avid recyclers.
No one I’m aware of blames you personally for the sick state of the world. Yes some people do bitch about millennials. They’re mostly wrong, but it’s all turned into a vaguely humorous cultural meme and bitch-habit, so the bitching will be around for a while.
[[[Aside: (And how, exactly, does that help anything?)
Nevermind.]]]
Hate to say this, because I think you do try, and you work hard at it.
But people are not supposed to “blame the [alleged, and to some degree true] [so-called] ‘responsible generations’” because that’s very simplistic and totally pointless. And because it comes off as trolling, due to the pointlessness.
And because adult well-read people are supposed to have a far better grasp of how history and progress and social mores and human understanding and political and personal conduct change do and don’t likely happen. So that what people say is useful to the forward movement of the conversation, and, one hopes, to the issues.
Of course no conversant participant has to buy into that set of purposes if they don’t want to.
And diff peeps have different senses of what needs to be brought into the conversations and how complex the understandings need to be.
And there is Ye Olde Saw:
“you can’t argue with fools”.
If you think a given selection of people likely are fools, it’s prob a waste of good time and energy to talk with them. (Including me).
@ShotgunX Each generation inherits problems from the previous generation - no generation had a fresh, clean, no problem start in this world. Each generation inherits advantages too. The 98 cent calculator that was $100 in the early 1970’s, powerful computers that help with the development of so much, new drugs that cure 90+% of childhood leukemia… None of which was available when the boomers were young or even for the oldest of that generation, younger middle aged.
It is, in my opinion, our collective, multi generational responsibility to try to fix what we can and try to prevent what we can. Because problems and solutions are complex, are embedded into a complex interrelated context, have intended and unintended consequences, not everything is predictable. In addition there are some high functioning sociopaths, etc. who achieve positions of power who aren’t interested in solutions - rather are interested in personal gain (some CEOs and VPs of companies, some politicians, etc.)… As a result this isn’t always easy.
@Kidsandliz It’s a bit tangential at this point, but I kind of want to say that a portion of those problems were self-made. No, I don’t blame you for that, because I know that mistakes are normal, and sometimes you expect your choices to lead to a certain outcome, and then a different thing happens, etc. But children, for example, are a good example of that. You might love them, but they aren’t exactly sustainable in your current circumstances (as you’ve described them), and it’s not a good idea to have them if you can’t properly provide for them.
I personally know a bunch of people who had/got trapped with kids they never intended or wanted to have, and all of those people exhibit the same destructive focus on short-term gratification. How does my generation deal with this? We either eschew romance entirely, or take extreme precautions to ensure we don’t have them. And that’s the generational juxtaposition I’m trying to highlight here; that the older ones have been able to get through life on impulse, while the new ones have to be more careful, plan harder, and compensate for the mistakes of others. That’s where the unfairness lies, and not in an individual’s issues with getting a promotion here, buying a house there, et cetera. The former is the cause of the latter, anyway. Carelessness, ignorance, and selfishness caused our systemic issues. Boomers are the ones who have sat in their castles and in their managerial roles for the last few decades, and they are the ones who drove housing costs to incomprehensible levels, and made it so you need an advanced degree and five years of experience to apply for an entry-level job scanning documents and licking envelopes.
It sounds like you’ve been dealt a really bad hand in life, and that sucks. But I’m sure that your life would be better today if our social structure wasn’t screwed up by these locusts. Letting things get this bad through inaction is no less a crime than actively working to make them this way. Anyway, I just want to reiterate that I’m not complaining how bad things are for myself (I’ve actually been fairly lucky so far, and can even afford to drop some cash on this site occasionally), but how bad they are for everyone. I’d be willing to send you a few bucks or a gift card or whatever so you can take your kids somewhere fun - let me know if you’re interested.
@unksol It’s a combination of having lived there for a long time (so your roots are already planted so to speak with friends and family), better employment opportunities overall, and difficulties with committing to reset your life from scratch. For example, my skill set revolves around finance and IT; it would become worthless if I were to move to Anytown, USA. Sure, housing would cost half as much, but I would also be making half as much after downgrading myself to a warehouse worker, or an Arby’s assistant manager, or whatever.
@f00l Nah, they’re not trolling. They’re not self-aware enough to know how to troll.
@f00l @Kidsandliz @ShotgunX I said you could make it work at a lower paying job if you wanted or needed to. I didn’t say you should be a warehouse worker or work at McDonald’s. I work from home as as a technical programming lead for a major company. my pay grade is pretty much guaranteed to be lower than someone required to be on site in California for a client but the cost of living makes up for it.
@unksol That still sounds like a fairly privileged situation that not everyone would be able to work their way into. And there’s also a lot of risk attached. What if the job is lost? You might not necessarily be able to get another one just like that, and then it’s off to fast food you go, since bills still need to be paid. Would it be wise to risk the relative security someone has for an extra few hundred dollars in the pocket every month via housing cost savings?
@Kidsandliz @ShotgunX @unksol
Re not self-aware enough to troll. Don’t be too sure. The most primitive and least educated peoples everywhere know how to troll. Seems to be built in. And are sly about it.
As for the generational thing: I guess blame the boomers if that makes you happy. It’s a (to me) quite primitive analysis of how practices and policy happen. Besides, much of what you object to was done by pre-boomer generations
Econ and “corp practice” history are pretty complex breasts in themselves, and are blown by strong political winds. And “greatest generation” members, not boomers, implemented most of that policy and sharpened and sold most of the various econ arguments that formed the basis of polical economy philosophy and political party econ philosophy for the last 70 years.
And much of that was based on “what was saleable”.
And have you ever noticed that even professional big-name econ people are often kinda clueless in their overall high perspective?
Perhaps the boomers should have challenged and overthrown all that.
But the last election should tell is that what wins elections are calls to myth, anger, basic national philosophy, and the associated fundamental beliefs and emotions.
For better or for worse, that.
(since many of the big “academic political POV arguments” turn out to look very much like just so much fancy bullshit after a few decades of perspective.)
Political change is a damned hard slog. Sometimes it’s easier to hand out blame than to try to make things improve.
And reading deeply in history is a worthy thing. As long as the reader varies the sources, goes for plenty of “firsthand” and HQ, distrusts anyone who “knows they are right”, and maintains high scepticism.
@ShotgunX So people should emotionally traumatize kids and put them in the foster care system just because they are poor? Do you even realize the damage done to kids who are abandoned by the parents they love? Are you aware of the damage the chaos in the foster care system does to many of them? DHS in this state has been taken over by the feds because it was so bad - not that there is much improvement now though. FYI kids are not removed from their homes for poverty reasons alone. Also in many states if you voluntarily abandon your children to foster care you then have a felony child abuse charge on your record. Try finding a job with that on your record.
My child, by the way, is 27, adopted at 10 and was severely damaged by what she went through prior to when I adopted her (although I was not informed of most of her problems before I adopted her).These are her kids. I am trying to keep them going down the same rabbit hole. There is not one legitimate reason to remove them from their home because several of us are plugging the holes.
@ShotgunX @unksol
I live in flyover America. Housing far more cheap than the coasts by far.
If someone has a good resume history in tech, they will be in a decent tech job market and be able to get something decent unless they are just a newbie. Or are rural or in a small town.
It isn’t the coding or IT job apocalypse here.
No it won’t pay like Silicon Valley. Yeah it will pay quite enough for a housing purchase in flyover country if it pays well anywhere.
Housing costs distortions based on location are far more extreme than some other location based econ distortions. (such as income)
@ShotgunX
Ummm… the number of kids born to single parents is higher than in the boomer generation; also the number of kids in poverty is much higher than it was with the boomers. The boomer generation only had 10% born out of wedlock and that number has steadily risen over time. That number is now around 40%.
Don’t think your generation is using as much birth control as the boomers were, although the average age of being a first time parent is higher than it was.
@ShotgunX it’s not. But I worry about that. Lots of people have been laid off over the years. Major companies treat their workers like shit. That’s why I said that I COULD probably pay the mortgage working at Walmart in an emergency is an advantage. While I interview at other places. Remote or having to drive 2 hours. I don’t want to do any of that. But id rather drive 2 hours both ways than live in a crappy place. I worked this job before the pay caught up. which is salary and on call. Plus another 30 hour night shift weekend job for years. There are better places to live and if you insist on staying in a shitty place. Well you have the right to bitch but… Don’t expect much sympathy
@stolicat just wanted to come here to say DS is what I call the new stray kitty. When I’m being polite. But she really can be a dumb shit. And she seems to come to both that and Coco… But I very much like her and if you could just ship her back… Oh. Uh… Never mind… There she is…
@unksol Glad she made it back, she was eating us out of house and home but kept complaining about the “quality of the servants” here …
@stolicat apparently they now clone cats AND boxes. I’d post a pic but you’ve already seen her. Here I thought she snuck in some random box I mailed out.
@stolicat maybe she teleported back… ignore her. She’s a total bitch about when I pick up her shit or refill the food or water fountain. DS isn’t going to starve. She probably does whine
This should be my theme song this year. In early June I hurt my back and was in pain and pretty useless until the end of July. Now I feel like I missed the best part of the season and all those grand (but probably mostly unrealistic) plans I started with are but gauzy wisps of cloud dreamily dispersing in the August breeze. Shit.
@macromeh ugh. Sorry to hear that. I feel your pain! Literally.
In California, the weather is great until the end of October, and in recent years, into November. My favorite time of year is September-October. It’s warm, the kids are back in school (not that I have them, but they’re out of the venues I go to) and generally things are less busy.
@Fuzzalini This 100%. September and October are the best months.
@Fuzzalini yes… But then you are in California… So
I wrote July 16 on a check today w/o thinking. After I was nearly leaving I thought, HANG ON A SEC. Sucks, man.
Summer around here isn’t almost gone. It was 97 today with a heat index of over 100. I was up north at my mom’s until a couple of days ago. Pleasant where she lives and the first two gas fill ups, including when filling up the gas in southern IL late afternoon/early evening (can’t remember but the sun was out). Then at 11pm in Memphis doing the same thing and opened the car door to a blast furnace. Wasn’t any better when I got home after 2am.
@Kidsandliz heat is anti-civilization, it should be banished
@Kidsandliz welcome back to the SE.
(Motto: It’s not the heat… it’s the humidity")
@chienfou Yeah right. It’s both. I prefer snow to blast furnace. You can always put clothes on. You can’t take your skin off.
@chienfou @Kidsandliz this implies you take it all if down to the skin to start
@Kidsandliz That’s always been my thing…
“You can put clothes on until you get comfortable… I can only take off so much until I get arrested… and I’ll still be hot!”
@chienfou @Kidsandliz
@chienfou @Kidsandliz @macromeh idk he’s probably right about the arrested part
I won’t miss summer cause it’s too hot and I work all year anyway