I thought that the fingerprint needed to be heated to actually have an impact on the home button? The way that the touch to screen effect works as well…
So yes you could use a severed hand but you’d need a way to conduct heat through it first
Without looking, I feel like it needs an electrical charge in order to work (same as a touch screen) that can be provided, so is the “it has to be alive” argument valid?
@joedel263 Touchscreens don’t detect the minute electrical impulses inside your finger, your finger is just a big watery mass that interferes with an electric field they emit.
There are a bunch of different fingerprint sensor techniques, some of which rely on physical properties that are harder to fake in inanimate objects.
Your typical smartphone sensor will still accept a fingerprint on a gummy bear, even though that technique has been around for a decade.
@mollama you’d have to probably make a mould out of the impression. Something like photo -> 3D print mould -> get out you your Creepy Crawlers Kit -> fabricate uninverted prints.
@mollama yep what @InnocuousFarmer said… you can get a pretty good mold by sticking glue to your finger, or print a photo onto a circuit board which is then etched to leave an impression.
Well, from what I remember when people were asking about this, it needs to have warm blood flowing in it or something like that, so you can’t use a severed finger or a lifted print.
But I voted yes because the answer to any question of the form “can security measure X be defeated” is always “yes”.
If I just got out of the shower or washed my hands my own live finger won’t unlock the phone, so if it’s that sensitive I’m going instinctively with no.
This does not contradict @awk’s assertion above that it can be defeated. It just means that I don’t believe a simple severed finger will do the trick.
Most fingerprint scanners open if you put a picture of an acceptable print on them. Seriously, it is sad. A few are good enough to check for body heat, so you’d need your finger behind the picture. In short, go with iris or retina scanners. They have to account for constant micro adjustments the eye makes, so removed eye/contacts trickery won’t work. Ultimately, though, good biometric scanners are expensive, and it is generally better to hide the things I’d put in a safe, than to just leave them in a safe, tempting someone to crack it and rob me.
@simplersimon I can’t get my Pixel phone’s fingerprint reader to read any of my fingers. Same thing with the FBI, I needed to get printed to volunteer with the Wounded Warrior program and after many tries we never got a usable print. My skin is too dry and my fingertips are too scarred from a variety of art media.
@f00l They were going to explore an alternate vetting process, but Simba’s incontinence problems were getting worse so I bowed out and got them another volunteer team who was just thrilled to do it. It’s a locked facility so getting out the door quickly wasn’t going to be possible. I’m going to circle back around to it once I get Zephyr certified. I just sent an email inquiry to the PAWS for Love administrator asking if he could still get certified if he failed the basic obedience components of the evaluation but passed all the social tests. I have him in an obedience class with a trainer that shows giant breeds but I’m just not making any headway. I have to bodily force him into every position, which is exhausting with a 105lb, very muscular dog. I’m glad he doesn’t have the mass of a dane or it would be impossible. Either he just doesn’t get it or he’s an Oscar-worthy actor. Tempest is a very quick study and eager to please, but she’s terrified of everything. She is a long long way from passing the comfort and confidence portion of the evaluation, the parts Zephyr will sail through.
I didn’t realize iPhones had finger print sensors.
I voted based on seeing people swipe to unlock their phones (I don’t have one).
Touch screens can be activated by inanimate objects, can’t they?
(Pretty sure I’ve seen someone do it w/ a pencil eraser.)
@darksaber99999 actually, Apple doesn’t have access to your fingerprints. They’re stored locally on a secure chip on the device itself, and it’s as mixed data, not as an actual photo, so even f you had hardware access to it it’d be difficult to recover.
@ruouttaurmind I’ve seen this… it’s weird. My phone seems happy to unlock always, even when my finger might be a little wet or dirty. Meanwhile, some of my friends can’t get theirs to work under even the most ideal conditions.
Simon Phoenix figured out an eye will work so why not a finger?
Slightly curious about how many people looked up the answer after voting.
Well then, looks like it depends on the particular technology in use.
https://www.engadget.com/2013/09/16/why-a-disembodied-finger-cant-be-used-to-unlock-the-touch-id-se/
@tristin They’re just saying that so we don’t have a rash of fingers getting chopped off to access people’s iPhones.
@tristin Despite the purported advances in finger (not just fingerprint) detection, somehow the trick of using a gummy bear (from the early days of fingerprint sensors) still worked on the iPhone 5s and 6: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/24/iphone_touchid_hack/
@tristin wait, are you telling me I couldn’t use a severed finger as a stylus, either?
… all my plans, dashed.
I thought that the fingerprint needed to be heated to actually have an impact on the home button? The way that the touch to screen effect works as well…
So yes you could use a severed hand but you’d need a way to conduct heat through it first
@legendornothing Nah, just pop it in the microwave for 10-15 seconds, first.
@legendornothing i accidentally scrolled my touch screen with a grape once. it was not heated.
@legendornothing Are you sure the touch screen is done by heat and not by capacitance?
@katylava Heating the grapes is a solid Don’t Try This At Home experiment:
Without looking, I feel like it needs an electrical charge in order to work (same as a touch screen) that can be provided, so is the “it has to be alive” argument valid?
@joedel263 Touchscreens don’t detect the minute electrical impulses inside your finger, your finger is just a big watery mass that interferes with an electric field they emit.
There are a bunch of different fingerprint sensor techniques, some of which rely on physical properties that are harder to fake in inanimate objects.
Your typical smartphone sensor will still accept a fingerprint on a gummy bear, even though that technique has been around for a decade.
@trisk wont the fingerprint on the gummy bear be backwards? Why does tthat work?
@mollama you’d have to probably make a mould out of the impression. Something like photo -> 3D print mould -> get out you your Creepy Crawlers Kit -> fabricate uninverted prints.
@mollama yep what @InnocuousFarmer said… you can get a pretty good mold by sticking glue to your finger, or print a photo onto a circuit board which is then etched to leave an impression.
It didn’t say how long ago it was severed…
@hanzov69 Why not just skin it and wear the fingerprint like a glove?
@caffeine_dude Right? It’s such a simple fix… some people just have to overcomplicate things.
Well, from what I remember when people were asking about this, it needs to have warm blood flowing in it or something like that, so you can’t use a severed finger or a lifted print.
But I voted yes because the answer to any question of the form “can security measure X be defeated” is always “yes”.
If I just got out of the shower or washed my hands my own live finger won’t unlock the phone, so if it’s that sensitive I’m going instinctively with no.
This does not contradict @awk’s assertion above that it can be defeated. It just means that I don’t believe a simple severed finger will do the trick.
@djslack If you’ve just washed your hands, there’s probably leftover water obscuring your whorls.
Well I plan on using my table saw to slice up some planks while downing some brews on Sunday, so I’ll let you all know first hand lol…
@AdmiralDave first hand…lol… Maybe it’s a good thing you’ve got a second hand?
Most fingerprint scanners open if you put a picture of an acceptable print on them. Seriously, it is sad. A few are good enough to check for body heat, so you’d need your finger behind the picture. In short, go with iris or retina scanners. They have to account for constant micro adjustments the eye makes, so removed eye/contacts trickery won’t work. Ultimately, though, good biometric scanners are expensive, and it is generally better to hide the things I’d put in a safe, than to just leave them in a safe, tempting someone to crack it and rob me.
@simplersimon and for all that effort, it’s still worse than a good password.
@simplersimon I can’t get my Pixel phone’s fingerprint reader to read any of my fingers. Same thing with the FBI, I needed to get printed to volunteer with the Wounded Warrior program and after many tries we never got a usable print. My skin is too dry and my fingertips are too scarred from a variety of art media.
@moondrake
Did they let you work on the Wounded Warrior program? Or no?
@f00l They were going to explore an alternate vetting process, but Simba’s incontinence problems were getting worse so I bowed out and got them another volunteer team who was just thrilled to do it. It’s a locked facility so getting out the door quickly wasn’t going to be possible. I’m going to circle back around to it once I get Zephyr certified. I just sent an email inquiry to the PAWS for Love administrator asking if he could still get certified if he failed the basic obedience components of the evaluation but passed all the social tests. I have him in an obedience class with a trainer that shows giant breeds but I’m just not making any headway. I have to bodily force him into every position, which is exhausting with a 105lb, very muscular dog. I’m glad he doesn’t have the mass of a dane or it would be impossible. Either he just doesn’t get it or he’s an Oscar-worthy actor. Tempest is a very quick study and eager to please, but she’s terrified of everything. She is a long long way from passing the comfort and confidence portion of the evaluation, the parts Zephyr will sail through.
If the severed finger is used to enter the lock code, should the phone unlock?
You can use a slim jim as a greasy stylus, so I’d suspect an actual finger, attached or otherwise, would dot he trick.
Microwave the Finger first… mmmmmmm microwave fingers … doh
I didn’t realize iPhones had finger print sensors.
I voted based on seeing people swipe to unlock their phones (I don’t have one).
Touch screens can be activated by inanimate objects, can’t they?
(Pretty sure I’ve seen someone do it w/ a pencil eraser.)
@DennisG2014
Depends on the touch screen.
While some would recognize those presses, others will ignore it.
@DennisG2014
/youtube sausage stylus
It doesn’t matter, because Apple owns your fingerprints once you input them.
@darksaber99999 actually, Apple doesn’t have access to your fingerprints. They’re stored locally on a secure chip on the device itself, and it’s as mixed data, not as an actual photo, so even f you had hardware access to it it’d be difficult to recover.
Mythbusters found a lock that specified it needs to be from a live person but it was defeated quite easily.
My freakin’ iPhone 6 won’t unlock for my ATTACHED finger, I sincerely doubt my disembodied finger would work any better…
/giphy disembodied finger
@ruouttaurmind I’ve seen this… it’s weird. My phone seems happy to unlock always, even when my finger might be a little wet or dirty. Meanwhile, some of my friends can’t get theirs to work under even the most ideal conditions.
it works on TV and everything you see there is true, am i right?