To me, they are about the same, since I mostly vocalize when I read, including different characters’ voices. Doesn’t slow me down as much as most would expect.
The weird part is, I also do it when I write and often hear myself making a mistake which I can then correct. I’ve been accused of having half a brain, but apparently rather have two halves which can self-critique.
@kittykat9180 But what if you are embarrassed by the four-letter words?
Seriously, yours is a good 2nd step, but the first is to turn off auto-correct, if you are on your phone.
@phendrick
Not a chance. A friend of mine refuses to use AutoCorrect and he sends the most unintelligible text I’ve ever seen.
Sometimes it’s so bad I don’t even know what he’s talking about.
I don’t know how somebody can text that poorly.
@kittykat9180@Kyeh
My phone changes some of my typing to the most braindead utterances imaginable.
Or to make a point to your friend, Meh lets you do rot13 or jumble in the / markdown commands. To wit:
Nggragvba sryybj Nzruevpnaf…
Atetntinon fellwow Amrhcieasns…
@Kyeh@phendrick
One time he sent me something and typed shart. I replied “you sharted instead of going to the toilet?”
When I spoke to him on the phone a couple days later, I asked him what he was saying about sharting. He had to scroll up to see what I was talking about. And then he had no clue what he was trying to say in that sentence.
@kittykat9180@Kyeh I figured “likes” as the logical word. Phone with autocorrupt (as @werehatrack has termed it) intervene? That’s what I was referring to above.
@kittykat9180@phendrick@werehatrack
Yes. My phone’s gotten quicker to autosuggest than it used to with the latest upgrades. I find it annoying. It’s a bit like people who try to finish your sentences for you.
@kittykat9180@Kyeh@phendrick
People that do that I think are too impatient and don’t value your message. They are too invested in telling you what they think.
I usually just start talking slo…wer…just like I drive when someone is riding my ass on the highway.
@yakkoTDI this is an interesting argument. I’m quite confident that a good number of students have paid insufficient attention while casting their eyes across a page or screen. Have they read the material?
It counts if your not multitasking like driving, doing housework, etc. Your
entire focus must be on the words. So, your may as well read the damn thing.
I often listen to audiobooks while I run. For the most part, this works well for me but sometimes my mind wanders and I may have to back it up a bit to re-listen to a part. When I finish, I still count it as a book read.
That’s what happens to me, my mind wanders and I have to listen to it again. I just can’t multitask like that.
It’s amazing to me how people’s brains work differently, my guy can do 3 things at once and if tested he’d get 100%!
ME - not so much… I’d probably get a 20%, and that’s on only 2 things! Lol
One gets better at listening to audiobooks after a fair amount of listening practice plus finding the right speed narration speed setting for each book
Too fast and you miss pieces of it
Too slow and your mind wanders
That’s sad
Depending on what I’m doing if I miss a bit, I instantly rewind and go listen to it again
Sometimes there’s something in the way it’s narrated that means I have to listen to it repeatedly because something about the way it was said makes me tune out, and I have to force myself not to
But yet it counts as reading for all, but the most academic or technical applications
—-
Besides young people can’t read books anymore anyway or so I read in the news so we should give them every possible chance to be literate
Easy test, which I’ve done, that proves the point. Take both copies, audio and paper, and then swap off during “reading”. I’ve had some paper books I’ve enjoyed so much, I couldn’t wait to read more of it, so I’d get the audio book and in places where I couldn’t “read” I’d listen, and then when I got back to paper I’d continue on. Zero loss of continuity, zero not understanding what was happening. Audio books count as reading, as long as you aren’t trying to improve your physical reading speed, audio books allow you to enjoy books when you otherwise couldn’t…driving, mowing the lawn or when you don’t have your book with you. You can follow the plot of a movie without physical words right? Audio book is the same. YMMV if its a textbook or something. Also, should blind people not enjoy books that aren’t in braille? What about people who can’t hold books/turn pages? Audio books allow everyone (but the deaf) to enjoy books!
@samuel1613 Good points! I had one book I was “reading” on paper and the whole time I could “hear” the author’s voice so I made it a point to listen to it in audio format as well…so I read this book twice?
Just curious, was there a difference in how you liked one over the other? I mean obviously the story doesn’t change but if you had to choose a favorite just for the all around experience which would it be?
@Lynnerizer@samuel1613 for the book I was referring to, I liked the audio version better. But it’s very rare for me to both read and listen to a book. I think the print version was released first in this case.
If the argument is about understanding what’s in the book: TO ME, it doesn’t, but that’s because I have an auditory processing disorder so half of what I hear people say isn’t really understood as is. Meanwhile, for someone with dyslexia, I would assume, audiobooks would be a better way to “read” a book.
If the argument is about bragging rights, then IDGAF
@nobile I’m the opposite. I can’t read a paragraph without losing my train of thought. I’ll see a word and start thinking about it while still blindly “reading” I can physically read without mentally engaging anything for entire chapters
Audiobooks trigger some ancient oral tradition memory like how the Greek Epics were handed down and I lock into the story and can practically recite them word for word.
It doesn’t matter what medium: words on paper, words on screen, words on fingers (Braille), or words on ears; it counts if your brain gets the words. Some people absorb words better in one form over another.
Harder questions:
Does speed-reading a book count as reading the book?
Does reading an abridged version of the book count?
Does reading a translated version of a book count?
How about a modern language version of an older book?
And when we get to the point where we can just download stuff directly to our brain via chip implant …
Speed reading counts if you have extraordinary comprehension capability.
Reading an abridged version may count, but this depends upon the abridged version. I know of the existence of an abridged version of The Lord of the Rings which improves on it dramatically in my personal opinion. There is at least one Tolkien purist who disagrees violently.
Reading a translated version counts if you don’t know the original language and could not easily learn it. However, there are good and bad translations of everything including at least one widely used volume that was questionably translated through several languages before it reached its final largely incomprehensible form.
Reading a modernized text version of something that was written in a language that has since morphed into something entirely different counts as reading a translated version as far as I’m concerned. Even Shakespeare can be downright opaque to a modern reader. The problem there is maintaining the artistic integrity of it in the process. That’s a much bigger hurdle to get over.
@werehatrack
I took a speed-reading class about 6 decades ago and learned different methods for novels vs history/textbooks. We took our “test” of novels with a 5-minute read of Steinbeck’s The Pearl. While I was forced to read other books by the author, The Pearl is the only plot I remember more than just vaguely. Aside from school, I only read novels for fun and prefer the slow method. Textbook speed-reading was more valuable.
Translations/modernized versions: Had to read a chapter of The Canterbury Tales in the original. I think it damaged some very valuable brain cells. A couple of pages of Don Quixote in the original Spanish finished them off, and I still miss them.
@rockblossom@werehatrack
Anecdotal experience: speed reading can have high comprehension/retention with repeated reads… or, an extended rumination period.
It’s very uncommon to find someone who can intake and retain information (short or long term) at high speeds. More commonly it’s one or the other (or neither). In those situations, I’d ask the student to summarize what they just read. Sometimes this would cause them to re-read the passage, sometimes this took added time to think of what words to cut out. But as a whole, it took an hour for most students to “get through and get something” out of the novella, whether they read through it quickly and took their time writing or they read slowly and knew the answer immediately.
Often a speed-read version is kinda all the personal time and investment a book is worth (a lot of dime-store-rack type nonfiction)
Same with abridged. Much depends on the book
I usually do the entire book. Not speed reading. Either I’m that interested, or I’m not. There is no shortage of inviting books.
I also never do abridged fiction; there’s so much good fiction out there that surely I can find some decent book I’m will to read in full.
—-
Re an abridged version of LOTR:
I’ve never encountered one. I’ve encountered abridged versions of The Hobbit, but only in audiobook form, and specifically targeted to be played for young children.
If there is a decent LOTR abridgment I’d love to take a look. Please give details.
(I’d have some reservations about any abridgment. I believe that Tolkien was writing, in style, a merging of modern storytelling to the customs of an older heroic form of literature. And he, during his lifetime, prob knew as much about the English language and its uses as anyone eise living. I like his writing style, which is not much like that if any other bestselling author).
But … I’d be interested to read what a gifted editor’s result would be, after an abridgment was created.
Blind people use audiobooks because they are faster than doing it with Braille. Plus, there are a great many more audiobooks available then there are Braille copies. On that basis alone, I have to say that listening to an audiobook is equivalent to reading it. Sometimes better, because if the person vocalizing it reads expression into it in a manner that the reader would not have realized was appropriate, it can add to the experience.
To me, they are about the same, since I mostly vocalize when I read, including different characters’ voices. Doesn’t slow me down as much as most would expect.
The weird part is, I also do it when I write and often hear myself making a mistake which I can then correct. I’ve been accused of having half a brain, but apparently rather have two halves which can self-critique.
@phendrick
They say when editing you’re own work that you should read it aloud.
@kittykat9180 But what if you are embarrassed by the four-letter words?
Seriously, yours is a good 2nd step, but the first is to turn off auto-correct, if you are on your phone.
@phendrick
Not a chance. A friend of mine refuses to use AutoCorrect and he sends the most unintelligible text I’ve ever seen.
Sometimes it’s so bad I don’t even know what he’s talking about.
I don’t know how somebody can text that poorly.
@kittykat9180 @phendrick
You should send him back deliberate gibberish and see how he lose it!
@kittykat9180 @Kyeh
My phone changes some of my typing to the most braindead utterances imaginable.
Or to make a point to your friend, Meh lets you do rot13 or jumble in the / markdown commands. To wit:
Nggragvba sryybj Nzruevpnaf…
Atetntinon fellwow Amrhcieasns…
@Kyeh @phendrick
One time he sent me something and typed shart. I replied “you sharted instead of going to the toilet?”
When I spoke to him on the phone a couple days later, I asked him what he was saying about sharting. He had to scroll up to see what I was talking about. And then he had no clue what he was trying to say in that sentence.
@kittykat9180 @phendrick And I just saw that my reply said “how he lose it” and I meant “how he likes it.”
@kittykat9180 @phendrick
That would be perfect!
@Kyeh
But he might lose it too.
@kittykat9180 True! It would serve him right.
@kittykat9180 @Kyeh I figured “likes” as the logical word. Phone with autocorrupt (as @werehatrack has termed it) intervene? That’s what I was referring to above.
@kittykat9180 @phendrick @werehatrack
Yes. My phone’s gotten quicker to autosuggest than it used to with the latest upgrades. I find it annoying. It’s a bit like people who try to finish your sentences for you.
@kittykat9180 @Kyeh
… and get it wrong
@kittykat9180 @Kyeh @phendrick
People that do that I think are too impatient and don’t value your message. They are too invested in telling you what they think.
I usually just start talking slo…wer…just like I drive when someone is riding my ass on the highway.
For some people it can’t. There is no way they are paying enough attention to what the audiobook is saying.
@yakkoTDI this is an interesting argument. I’m quite confident that a good number of students have paid insufficient attention while casting their eyes across a page or screen. Have they read the material?
It counts if your not multitasking like driving, doing housework, etc. Your
entire focus must be on the words. So, your may as well read the damn thing.
I often listen to audiobooks while I run. For the most part, this works well for me but sometimes my mind wanders and I may have to back it up a bit to re-listen to a part. When I finish, I still count it as a book read.
@januarymick
That’s what happens to me, my mind wanders and I have to listen to it again.
I just can’t multitask like that. 
It’s amazing to me how people’s brains work differently, my guy can do 3 things at once and if tested he’d get 100%!
ME - not so much… I’d probably get a 20%, and that’s on only 2 things! Lol
@januarymick @Lynnerizer
One gets better at listening to audiobooks after a fair amount of listening practice plus finding the right speed narration speed setting for each book
Too fast and you miss pieces of it
Too slow and your mind wanders
That’s sad
Depending on what I’m doing if I miss a bit, I instantly rewind and go listen to it again
Sometimes there’s something in the way it’s narrated that means I have to listen to it repeatedly because something about the way it was said makes me tune out, and I have to force myself not to
But yet it counts as reading for all, but the most academic or technical applications
—-
Besides young people can’t read books anymore anyway or so I read in the news so we should give them every possible chance to be literate
@f00l @januarymick
“Besides young people can’t read books anymore anyway or so I read in the news so we should give them every possible chance to be literate”
I agree!
I got really sad reading that statement up there.
First, they stop teaching them to write cursive, and NOW… NO BOOKS EITHER?
What the heck happened to our children’s bright future…
Remember when it was so bright you needed sunglasses?
Easy test, which I’ve done, that proves the point. Take both copies, audio and paper, and then swap off during “reading”. I’ve had some paper books I’ve enjoyed so much, I couldn’t wait to read more of it, so I’d get the audio book and in places where I couldn’t “read” I’d listen, and then when I got back to paper I’d continue on. Zero loss of continuity, zero not understanding what was happening. Audio books count as reading, as long as you aren’t trying to improve your physical reading speed, audio books allow you to enjoy books when you otherwise couldn’t…driving, mowing the lawn or when you don’t have your book with you. You can follow the plot of a movie without physical words right? Audio book is the same. YMMV if its a textbook or something. Also, should blind people not enjoy books that aren’t in braille? What about people who can’t hold books/turn pages? Audio books allow everyone (but the deaf) to enjoy books!
@samuel1613 Good points! I had one book I was “reading” on paper and the whole time I could “hear” the author’s voice so I made it a point to listen to it in audio format as well…so I read this book twice?
@januarymick @samuel1613
Just curious, was there a difference in how you liked one over the other? I mean obviously the story doesn’t change but if you had to choose a favorite just for the all around experience which would it be?
@januarymick @Lynnerizer, I prefer paper, but life is so busy I am often left with audio as my only choice!
@januarymick @samuel1613
Me too, even though audio seems easier, I prefer the real thing!
@Lynnerizer @samuel1613 for the book I was referring to, I liked the audio version better. But it’s very rare for me to both read and listen to a book. I think the print version was released first in this case.
If the argument is about understanding what’s in the book: TO ME, it doesn’t, but that’s because I have an auditory processing disorder so half of what I hear people say isn’t really understood as is. Meanwhile, for someone with dyslexia, I would assume, audiobooks would be a better way to “read” a book.
If the argument is about bragging rights, then IDGAF
@nobile I’m the opposite. I can’t read a paragraph without losing my train of thought. I’ll see a word and start thinking about it while still blindly “reading” I can physically read without mentally engaging anything for entire chapters
Audiobooks trigger some ancient oral tradition memory like how the Greek Epics were handed down and I lock into the story and can practically recite them word for word.
Yes.
Because I so decree.
You’re welcome.
It doesn’t matter what medium: words on paper, words on screen, words on fingers (Braille), or words on ears; it counts if your brain gets the words. Some people absorb words better in one form over another.
Harder questions:
Does speed-reading a book count as reading the book?
Does reading an abridged version of the book count?
Does reading a translated version of a book count?
How about a modern language version of an older book?
And when we get to the point where we can just download stuff directly to our brain via chip implant …
@rockblossom in my opinion …
Speed reading counts if you have extraordinary comprehension capability.
Reading an abridged version may count, but this depends upon the abridged version. I know of the existence of an abridged version of The Lord of the Rings which improves on it dramatically in my personal opinion. There is at least one Tolkien purist who disagrees violently.
Reading a translated version counts if you don’t know the original language and could not easily learn it. However, there are good and bad translations of everything including at least one widely used volume that was questionably translated through several languages before it reached its final largely incomprehensible form.
Reading a modernized text version of something that was written in a language that has since morphed into something entirely different counts as reading a translated version as far as I’m concerned. Even Shakespeare can be downright opaque to a modern reader. The problem there is maintaining the artistic integrity of it in the process. That’s a much bigger hurdle to get over.
@werehatrack
I took a speed-reading class about 6 decades ago and learned different methods for novels vs history/textbooks. We took our “test” of novels with a 5-minute read of Steinbeck’s The Pearl. While I
was forced toread other books by the author, The Pearl is the only plot I remember more than just vaguely. Aside from school, I only read novels for fun and prefer the slow method. Textbook speed-reading was more valuable.Translations/modernized versions: Had to read a chapter of The Canterbury Tales in the original. I think it damaged some very valuable brain cells. A couple of pages of Don Quixote in the original Spanish finished them off, and I still miss them.
@rockblossom @werehatrack
Like, say, the Bible …
@rockblossom @werehatrack
Anecdotal experience: speed reading can have high comprehension/retention with repeated reads… or, an extended rumination period.
It’s very uncommon to find someone who can intake and retain information (short or long term) at high speeds. More commonly it’s one or the other (or neither). In those situations, I’d ask the student to summarize what they just read. Sometimes this would cause them to re-read the passage, sometimes this took added time to think of what words to cut out. But as a whole, it took an hour for most students to “get through and get something” out of the novella, whether they read through it quickly and took their time writing or they read slowly and knew the answer immediately.
@rockblossom
@werehatrack
Speed reading: counts partially. (IMHO)
Often a speed-read version is kinda all the personal time and investment a book is worth (a lot of dime-store-rack type nonfiction)
Same with abridged. Much depends on the book
I usually do the entire book. Not speed reading. Either I’m that interested, or I’m not. There is no shortage of inviting books.
I also never do abridged fiction; there’s so much good fiction out there that surely I can find some decent book I’m will to read in full.
—-
Re an abridged version of LOTR:
I’ve never encountered one. I’ve encountered abridged versions of The Hobbit, but only in audiobook form, and specifically targeted to be played for young children.
If there is a decent LOTR abridgment I’d love to take a look. Please give details.
(I’d have some reservations about any abridgment. I believe that Tolkien was writing, in style, a merging of modern storytelling to the customs of an older heroic form of literature. And he, during his lifetime, prob knew as much about the English language and its uses as anyone eise living. I like his writing style, which is not much like that if any other bestselling author).
But … I’d be interested to read what a gifted editor’s result would be, after an abridgment was created.
Blind people use audiobooks because they are faster than doing it with Braille. Plus, there are a great many more audiobooks available then there are Braille copies. On that basis alone, I have to say that listening to an audiobook is equivalent to reading it. Sometimes better, because if the person vocalizing it reads expression into it in a manner that the reader would not have realized was appropriate, it can add to the experience.
Yes! In the same way picking up takeout counts as cooking your family a meal!
For those who wonder:
Audiobook listening entirely counts as “reading”
Full stop.
Of course
Why?
**Because I’ve spent so much damn money on audiobooks. Thats why **
And I like them.
And I have a lot of them
And all that expenditure had better effing count in terms of “have I read ‘whatever’ book”.
Don’t even think about discussing this conundrum with me as though there could be a different answer.
I’m not in the mood.
I’m right be decree and by fiat.
So there.
—-
(PS: I read, in part to be entertained, in part to learn, and because I want to be open-minded. Or at least to pretend to be.)
; )