@f00l I generally skip directly to stoned after high as fuck. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. Just proceed directly to seriously stoned. Yes, there is a stoned as fuck level also.
Buzzed
High
Very high
Very very high
Seriously high
High as fuck
Stoned
etc.
We all need to meet up in a state that has liberal recreational sales and chill. I’ll bring snacks and video games.
Omg you are taking me right back to 7th avenue and 1981.
Mick can’t give it away on 7th Avenue? This town’s in tatters? [“Shattered”] He wasn’t trying hard then, was he?
Actually, he was, he could, he did. I have my sources.
I miss those days. You could give - or be given - most things on 7th avenue. Right out in the open at a sidewalk bar table at 11pm Sat night when the whole island was out and about and happy.
You could give or get most things you’re talking about, anyway. And then some.
Go ahead. Take a bite out of the Big Apple! Don’t mind the maggots!
i did go to therapy, and i should go again. but that’s the catch 22 with depression and anxiety…actually getting out of the house and keeping appointments is almost impossible. especially because it’s unlikely you’ll get the therapist for you on the first try.
@jerk_nugget I just can’t imagine they have anything to offer. I’ve thought about going just to get a scrip for anti depressants, but I’ve led a drug free life so far (if you don’t count ibuprofen) and I don’t know at this late date that I want to become dependent on such a thing. Not being judged, I have a friend who says that they’ve saved his life and I’m glad of that. I’ve just never been one to cede control to anyone or anything.
@moondrake Therapy is one thing, getting prescriptions through a psychiatrist is another. Therapy generally focuses on cognitive behavioral changes and techniques that can help ease the load placed by most psychological disorders and make daily life more surmountable. Sometimes they might suggest supplementing the therapy by trying different medications through a psychiatrist, but it is mostly its own thing.
@moondrake yes, what @ThomasF said. a psychiatrist and a psychologist are not the same. going to therapy isn’t about getting medication, for me. (for others the two may go hand in hand, and there may be still more who have found the right cocktail and don’t care for the therapy bit anymore.)
@moondrake
Therapists can differ tremendously in approach. And the “personal fit” between the client and provider can be key. Can you communicate and have empathy for each other? Can you trust each other?
Cognitive stuff can be hugely useful for certain things.
Supportive therapy can also be quite useful.
Both of these kinda aim at educating and training people away from unproductive or harmful patterns, toward much better ones.
I don’t know if anyone but a bare few inquisitive types seek out psychoanalysis anymore. It’s monstrously expensive and time consuming. Hardly anyone is properly trained to provide it. If I ever messed wit th it, my motivation would be curiosity and my life would be made if pure free-time before I started.
As for meds:
the anti-depressants (ssri’s, snri’s, and other new ones) simply boost the levels of certain very-efficient-and-useful-to-have-around neurotransmitters, and you can dump the meds more or less at will if you want. These come with a few hazards but are mostly pretty safe for general use, and can be remarkable for lowering stress, boosting outlook and enabling the sense of having opportunities, and making life a tiny bit easier during hard times.
The older (pre-1988 or so) anti-depressants can be effective, but must be used with a good bit of care and can have quite bad side effects. I’d avoid. There are too many far safer new ones now. I bet hardly anyone prescribes the old ones anymore. No reason to.
Anti-anxiety meds can come with enormous problems and hazards. How many problems with xanax, or with Valium, so far in this world? I would avoid unless there are new meds so safe that they almost shouldn’t require prescriptions. If such new meds exists, I don’t know of them.
Other meds for adults such as anti-psychotic meds (schizophrenia and other psychosis) or mood stabilization meds (for bipolar) can be incredibly useful for the people horribly afflicted. They are not the kind of meds it’s cool to take if there’s any doubt they’re needed. These can be tricky or sometimes dangerous if not monitored. Also side effects. Fortunately, not so many people need these.
ADHD: to the best of my knowledge, I’ve never personally dealt closely with a child who was prescribed these. If I were a parent I would proceed with a lot of caution tho.
As for ADHD drugs for adults: I’ve known adults who claimed to function better while on them. Others around these ADHD persons thought the opposite. I would have some serious doubts.
–
A lot of the need for meds would just vanish if we as a population were taught from beginning as a bunch of students in the public schools onwards, and so somewhat understood as we grew up, how our behavioral and emotional patterns worked, how we learn and “unlearn” things (we don’t “unlearn”, really, but we can override old learning with new learning).
People can self-modify, tho it’s tough. Kids can do it too. In my experience, to do this effectively, it takes more than understanding, intervention, awareness, feedback, creativity. It also takes “hacking the social environment” somewhat. A person has to learn to extract from the environment some of what they need. (Obviously, kids often/usually have little or no control here.)
People can, to a significant degree, “unlearn” or modify our own “imprinted” and self-taught habits. Hard as all fuck to do, tho, sometimes.
Part of the difficulty is that it’s all multi-level feedback, every part touches every other part: social cues, sucess, lack of success, interactions, environments, self-judgments, perceived judgments by others, perspectives, habits, moods, thinking patterns, stress, social integration, and more: everything is influencing everything else all the time. Lots of balls to juggle. So it can be a bit tricky.
At least in the case of traditional ssri anti-depressant meds, there is no “giving up control”. Period. You just get a brain that functions a bit better, and then you do whatever you want with that brain. It can be a bit like a “better cup of coffee”. No more “emotional control” or “mind control” than having a barista handy at all times.
(I wish! Please please! Someone please give me one of these robot-barista-slaves!)
(Not all ssri’s are effectively for everyone, there is a lag before they become effective, some people have side effects to one or another ssri or snri. Blah blah blah.)
–
To me, the most annoying thing about psychologists and psychotherapists is that they can’t, or won’t, explain up front what they do or how they do it or what reasonable expectations are, or what the client’s work consists of. Or if they do offer explanations, it’s a bunch of vague idiocy. Meaningless phrases.
At first this kinda drove me nuts. Then I figured out they kinda barely know how to explain it, if they know at all. I.e. therapy in practice is better and more useful than their explanations of it are.
This is prob because altho they are well trained as psychologists, they would need to be, in addition: logicians, scientists of social feedback, linguistic specialists, scientists of consciousness, of communications, of the brain, and then some. And then after all that fancy education, they would need to learn to explain it on the common tongue their clients use.
They just don’t have the conceptual logistic framework to explain what they are doing in conversations among each other as professionals, let alone explain it to the rest of us.
If a client wants reasons to believe that beginning psychotherapy is not simply a matter of taking up an insurance-approved “faith-practice” somewhat akin to a form of religion; then that potential client should read up on the research into the influences of a highly positive and trustworthy social environment where one can be completely honest without fear. This stuff is evidenced-based and solid (I think). And it matches up with therapy practices, with the additional factor that therapists are trained in how to keep the client’s interests up front, to be tolerant, to he useful, to be focused.
Psychotherapy can be exhausting work. Therapists can and do burn out.
But for all that, they mostly do good things.
If someone gets into therapy, it’s up to the client to drive the therapy forwards and make it work for the client. The therapist can’t “fix” the world or other people at all. The therapist can’t “fix” the client. Ever. No exceptions.
And the therapist can’t help the client with anything the client does not take the lead on. The client not only takes the lead, the client does so every minute, every hour. No sitting back and thinking things will get better. If a client does that, things won’t.
The exceptions to the above are likely to some degree with grief, ptsd, shock, trauma, loss, dislocation, abuse, and similar. Sometimes people gotta just let healing/grieving happen. Or sometimes people gotta grieve things they didn’t know they had to grieve. Eventually tho, no one gets better without working for it.
Like everything else in life that involves self-awareness: therapy works best in the intelligent, the educated, the inquisitive, the self-reflective, the non-defensive, the self-starters. People who would prefer to try and fail and try again and again, rather than not try.
People who live by excuses; who think they don’t have to improve themselves and their approaches to life as they see the means to do so; people who don’t seek and reach out for opportunities; these people don’t do well in therapy.
@moondrake@jerk_nugget If you don’t want to use medicine or cannot afford it or therapy you can also look into medicinal herbs and supplements. For anxiety there’s St. John’s Wort which is an antidepressant herb and is one of the most popular ones among anxiety (but interacts with a lot of things such as other medications which it does in my case) since it is a gentle sedative and helps w/insomnia and and anxiety. Valerian (good to take at night) is actually the plant that Valium was derived from. However, prolonged use is not recommended usually you take it for about 3weeks and go off of it and then when needed, if something else doesn’t work in between, then another round is started. Passion Flower has a tranquilizing effect on your nervous system and is specific for anxiety and insomnia & is non habit forming. Hops is a sedative and is usually combined w/ Passion flower to enhance its action to help w/ nervous tension and insomnia. A German study used Hops and Valerian as an alternative to benzodiazepines but is not recommended for anxiety if depression is part of the reason for anxiety. Lemon Balm can help reduce nervousness associated w/anxiety. It is safe for short-term use and most people can tolerate it. Obviously I looked into herbal remedies for both migraines &insomnia but I’m on a crap ton of meds. You can look into specific herbs for strictly anxiety and/or depression as well as supplements. I just know what I put down while looking into my struggle with sleeping/migraines as well as some depression when I couldn’t work anymore because of my disability but @f00l also hit it right (as f00l usually does) in ref. to having to work on yourself- I’m still trying to get there.
Working on yourself is difficult because what we are is so ingrained. Learned before we could verbalize, let alone try to be semi-removed intellectually from immersion in the immediate emotional events.
You might gets some books on recent developments in brain science, learning, habit formation, and what is called “deep learning” or “deep practice”. (Books about humans, nothing to do with IT or tech).
Ignore the books about classrooms learning. Go for the stuff on individuals and habit formation.
If you start to understand the brain science of learning, (learning basically involves, in physical-brain terms, your brain making certain neurotransmitter, electrical, and and biochemical pathways operate more efficiently thru repeated or intense stimulation. Or through trauma.). you can start to use cognitive principles, knowing your own instinctive reactions and habitual thinking, re-training, etc, much more effectively. once you can sort of do a visual map what the brain is doing, this can take a lot of the guilt, hopelessness, and sense of failure out of the process.
You don’t need textbooks. Certainly not as starters. NYTimes general non-fiction type books are fine. Ok, I have not tried textbooks. They may be even way better. Dunno.
Unfortunately, many people learn to live depressed and anxious lives as children, and that’s the most instinctive ingrained kind of learning. The reactions are so efficient that they happen before conscious thought.
Amd since they are the way we think, we don’t know what’s outside that (or what are alternative states of mind we have little ability to understand in terms of how those states of mind “feel” or are experienced.)
But people can still hack their own emotions and reactions to a decent degree. Over lots of practice and experimentation. One gets better at it over time. More effective, more efficient, more practical, more insightful.
And in some cases meds (or herbs) can really help this along.
Years ago I needed to find therapy for a friend. Who had no heath insurance. I was also looking for other resources (he was recently diagnosed with something serious).
So I called United Ways, local # just to see.
The local number is the “first call for help” number locally. I don’t know if that’s what their number is called nationwide.
Turned out to be a good thing to do. They didn’t do it themselves; they referred one to other organizations. Locally there were more than 20-30. This was more than 25 years ago but perhaps it is the same.
Mostly very low fee sliding scale. (Sometimes near-free). (Catholic and Jewish charities both did this, for the community at large (and they did not care, and did not ask, any questions at all about religion. They just paid for a few regular therapists to do charitable work. The therapists were quite high-quality).
So did the local Women’s Center (for everyone, not just for females).
So did MHMR. (Quality not as good). So did the local med schools. So did not Protestant denominations. (Again, they don’t care about your religion or lack or religion).
The counties did stuff, but that will have changed to matchup with Onanavare now.
So did some other organizations.
Many of them will have waiting lists. Some didn’t.
I don’t know about resources for access to someone who can prescribe. MR, the county hospital, and the local med schools may do that. Also an internist or GP amd family ora titiiner may do that for a patient. Always good to ask.
The other place I found resources was that somehow or other I waylaid a social worker at the county hospital and asked that person. That person (a great and generous human) went beyond the call to look stuff up and give me list of numbers. I called around, and by the time my friend was medically stabilized, I have found something for him.
So it can be worth it to hit the web sites and get on the phone.
The thing is, don’t get discouraged. (Yeah I know I’m saying that to a depressed person. Catch 22. But try not to get discouraged as best you can.). Most may not be available or mesh with a specific person. You just keep trying until you find some resource that will help.
Checking these out is a huge tIme-suck PITA. Be prepared for that.
@f00l I tried a sleep clinic and failed. I tried cognitive behavioral therapy and failed. When I could work I still had problems with insomnia but it was from the adrenaline rush from working at the Sheriffs Office (which at times were in their own right therapeutic by helping others with their lives) but after getting injured and sidelined with what to do next I chose 911. Got back my adrenaline rush and the same therapeutic feeling with dealing with the calls received and dispatching and making sure my responders were safe. After getting sidelined again with my disability (RRMS) the lesions on my brain have killed and/or destroyed certain lobes that make a human being a human. When my MS relapsed this last time I dropped down to 97lbs. and lost the ability to walk. Not being able to walk and hold my husbands hand, go to the movies or social functions because of the noise, missing my oldest sons life in California while in the Navy because I can’t travel (can’t drive, heat, cold, lack of strength and the list goes on) and missing my younger sons events (mostly same reasons as above) sends you straight into depression which I’ve tried to over come. I have a great family and my parents moved close to help us (adds to guilt and not having freedom to do the things a parent (me) should be able to do takes a toll. Because I take 12 different medications that is why I turned to looking into medicinal herbs and supplements that don’t interfere with my prescriptions. I know what’s wrong with me but it’s a day to day challenge. Because I worked so long in public service my disability insurance is pretty good and I’m still on my husbands insurance (waiting to see how badly Trump messes with it) but I draw my disability pay through PERS so I can’t even volunteer for trying to work some place or I risk losing it (don’t worry people I will never touch your social security ). As for your leg work for your friend I love you even more . One other thing @jerk_nugget can try - I use to also work at the helpline. Sure it is for people who want to hurt themselves or are being hurt or tips on drug dealers and children being abused in many forms as well as the homeless needing some place to stay in the winter (surprisingly there are very few homeless shelters in our surrounding counties) but we also assisted in finding therapist and doctors and hospital services for callers. If you have a helpline or hotline in your area also try that. I’m usually not one to share my life story, especially in an open forum, but I sort of felt compelled to if only because it is giving me back the feeling of possibly helping someone as I use to be able to do. I’m thinking I should erase this but I’m not going to.
@WTFsunshine i just wanted you, and @f00l to know that i read all of your replies, and have them saved in my inbox, even. and i thank you very much, and even moreso appreciate you sharing your stories.
one of the things that annoys me most about myself is that i will read something, think “i should reply” (or “i should do this simple task” after thinking of it) and then…nothing happens. i even imagine doing it in my head, usually repeatedly, and it probably takes up more time than actually doing it. then, after [length of time] of inaction, i become anxious that i haven’t done it, and overthink it - including feeling like “well, it’s too late now” but being too embarrassed/anxious to remedy it, and then more time goes on, and then i feel like a dick because i must appear like a dick when someone reaches out and gets nothing from me in return. anyway, i am trying to be better about it, so here i am. this does not warrant a back pat or a medal, i just wanted you both to know how much i appreciated the discussion.
and because ironically/annoyingly, when i bother to reach out and go without immediate response, i start thinking up ridiculous reasons why that is, even though i do the same damn thing. (and because most ‘normal’ people probably have ‘normal’ reasons like they’re busy or they went to bed or they forgot or simply have nothing more to add.)
@jerk_nugget My sweet, sweet man…you are talking to two procrastinators. We pre-, pro- and post- crastinate all the time. Please feel no angst for it. I won’t put words into @f00l s mouth but in reading her comments and posts for the past year I’d have to say neither of us 1. think you are or should feel like a dick 2. harbor no ill will (at least with you but some others might deserve it ) and 3. we all have things that come up or get in the way with our life so when, or if, you get around to it (or not) it’s all good. I just went back to look at the previous sale of the Star Wars replicas because I wanted to see what the two extra items were from when I purchased them before on May 4th and noticed on May 6th someone had typed in a reply. So, let yourself off the hook, from what I can tell there are no rules/timelines here or in regular daily life. Maybe certain obligations if you work or with family/friends and such. My disability gets in the way from things I want to do or think I should do (like writing a thank you note to my husbands fire department when they took me to the hospital when I dropped down to 87lbs. and had a MS relapse where I lost the ability to walk - and that was in late 2015/early 2016 - still haven’t done it) so don’t you worry or apologize. I’m not going anywhere - or at least that’s the plan - who knows what’s to come. Rest your weary mind.
Denial’s not just a river in Egypt.
@2many2no Right? It actually passes through several countries.
Weed works pretty well.
@Skylord123 I came here to say exactly this. I would have been here earlier had I not been really, really high.
@Pavlov Damn, how did you reach that level? I’m only really high.
@Skylord123 Really, really high comes right before “high as fuck”. : )
@Pavlov
But do you ever reach the level of “high as ALL FUCK”?
If so, pls share somma that.
@f00l I generally skip directly to stoned after high as fuck. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. Just proceed directly to seriously stoned. Yes, there is a stoned as fuck level also.
Buzzed
High
Very high
Very very high
Seriously high
High as fuck
Stoned
etc.
We all need to meet up in a state that has liberal recreational sales and chill. I’ll bring snacks and video games.
@Pavlov
Omg you are taking me right back to 7th avenue and 1981.
Mick can’t give it away on 7th Avenue? This town’s in tatters? [“Shattered”]
He wasn’t trying hard then, was he?
Actually, he was, he could, he did. I have my sources.
I miss those days. You could give - or be given - most things on 7th avenue. Right out in the open at a sidewalk bar table at 11pm Sat night when the whole island was out and about and happy.
You could give or get most things you’re talking about, anyway. And then some.
Go ahead. Take a bite out of the Big Apple! Don’t mind the maggots!
Good times.
Again, I just spray Febreze on everything, including my emotional issues
@awk I bet this answer works for 90% of our polls.
I went to aromatherapy once, but most there smelled like they needed a bath.
Yes, sauna therapy. It does the trick every time.
I just keep my feelings nice and suppressed. No worries.
When my therapist’s son graduated from Stanford, I got a “Thank you” card from the doctor’s wife.
meh therapy.
@KDemo
I’d read that, but the dog ate it.
@f00l - I keep meaning to . . .
Aromatherapy can be very relaxing, there’s clinical proof. But yeah, don’t expect it to help you overcome a painful childhood.
@Fuzzalini Mmm… sandlewood. Reminds me of my father’s cologne. Really brings back the memories.
I go to the liquor store and bring home a brown bag all full of therapy.
i did go to therapy, and i should go again. but that’s the catch 22 with depression and anxiety…actually getting out of the house and keeping appointments is almost impossible. especially because it’s unlikely you’ll get the therapist for you on the first try.
and also, i don’t have health insurance, so.
@jerk_nugget I just can’t imagine they have anything to offer. I’ve thought about going just to get a scrip for anti depressants, but I’ve led a drug free life so far (if you don’t count ibuprofen) and I don’t know at this late date that I want to become dependent on such a thing. Not being judged, I have a friend who says that they’ve saved his life and I’m glad of that. I’ve just never been one to cede control to anyone or anything.
@moondrake Therapy is one thing, getting prescriptions through a psychiatrist is another. Therapy generally focuses on cognitive behavioral changes and techniques that can help ease the load placed by most psychological disorders and make daily life more surmountable. Sometimes they might suggest supplementing the therapy by trying different medications through a psychiatrist, but it is mostly its own thing.
@moondrake yes, what @ThomasF said. a psychiatrist and a psychologist are not the same. going to therapy isn’t about getting medication, for me. (for others the two may go hand in hand, and there may be still more who have found the right cocktail and don’t care for the therapy bit anymore.)
@moondrake
Therapists can differ tremendously in approach. And the “personal fit” between the client and provider can be key. Can you communicate and have empathy for each other? Can you trust each other?
Cognitive stuff can be hugely useful for certain things.
Supportive therapy can also be quite useful.
Both of these kinda aim at educating and training people away from unproductive or harmful patterns, toward much better ones.
I don’t know if anyone but a bare few inquisitive types seek out psychoanalysis anymore. It’s monstrously expensive and time consuming. Hardly anyone is properly trained to provide it. If I ever messed wit th it, my motivation would be curiosity and my life would be made if pure free-time before I started.
As for meds:
the anti-depressants (ssri’s, snri’s, and other new ones) simply boost the levels of certain very-efficient-and-useful-to-have-around neurotransmitters, and you can dump the meds more or less at will if you want. These come with a few hazards but are mostly pretty safe for general use, and can be remarkable for lowering stress, boosting outlook and enabling the sense of having opportunities, and making life a tiny bit easier during hard times.
The older (pre-1988 or so) anti-depressants can be effective, but must be used with a good bit of care and can have quite bad side effects. I’d avoid. There are too many far safer new ones now. I bet hardly anyone prescribes the old ones anymore. No reason to.
Anti-anxiety meds can come with enormous problems and hazards. How many problems with xanax, or with Valium, so far in this world? I would avoid unless there are new meds so safe that they almost shouldn’t require prescriptions. If such new meds exists, I don’t know of them.
Other meds for adults such as anti-psychotic meds (schizophrenia and other psychosis) or mood stabilization meds (for bipolar) can be incredibly useful for the people horribly afflicted. They are not the kind of meds it’s cool to take if there’s any doubt they’re needed. These can be tricky or sometimes dangerous if not monitored. Also side effects. Fortunately, not so many people need these.
ADHD: to the best of my knowledge, I’ve never personally dealt closely with a child who was prescribed these. If I were a parent I would proceed with a lot of caution tho.
As for ADHD drugs for adults: I’ve known adults who claimed to function better while on them. Others around these ADHD persons thought the opposite. I would have some serious doubts.
–
A lot of the need for meds would just vanish if we as a population were taught from beginning as a bunch of students in the public schools onwards, and so somewhat understood as we grew up, how our behavioral and emotional patterns worked, how we learn and “unlearn” things (we don’t “unlearn”, really, but we can override old learning with new learning).
People can self-modify, tho it’s tough. Kids can do it too. In my experience, to do this effectively, it takes more than understanding, intervention, awareness, feedback, creativity. It also takes “hacking the social environment” somewhat. A person has to learn to extract from the environment some of what they need. (Obviously, kids often/usually have little or no control here.)
People can, to a significant degree, “unlearn” or modify our own “imprinted” and self-taught habits. Hard as all fuck to do, tho, sometimes.
Part of the difficulty is that it’s all multi-level feedback, every part touches every other part: social cues, sucess, lack of success, interactions, environments, self-judgments, perceived judgments by others, perspectives, habits, moods, thinking patterns, stress, social integration, and more: everything is influencing everything else all the time. Lots of balls to juggle. So it can be a bit tricky.
At least in the case of traditional ssri anti-depressant meds, there is no “giving up control”. Period. You just get a brain that functions a bit better, and then you do whatever you want with that brain. It can be a bit like a “better cup of coffee”. No more “emotional control” or “mind control” than having a barista handy at all times.
(I wish! Please please! Someone please give me one of these robot-barista-slaves!)
(Not all ssri’s are effectively for everyone, there is a lag before they become effective, some people have side effects to one or another ssri or snri. Blah blah blah.)
–
To me, the most annoying thing about psychologists and psychotherapists is that they can’t, or won’t, explain up front what they do or how they do it or what reasonable expectations are, or what the client’s work consists of. Or if they do offer explanations, it’s a bunch of vague idiocy. Meaningless phrases.
At first this kinda drove me nuts. Then I figured out they kinda barely know how to explain it, if they know at all. I.e. therapy in practice is better and more useful than their explanations of it are.
This is prob because altho they are well trained as psychologists, they would need to be, in addition: logicians, scientists of social feedback, linguistic specialists, scientists of consciousness, of communications, of the brain, and then some. And then after all that fancy education, they would need to learn to explain it on the common tongue their clients use.
They just don’t have the conceptual logistic framework to explain what they are doing in conversations among each other as professionals, let alone explain it to the rest of us.
If a client wants reasons to believe that beginning psychotherapy is not simply a matter of taking up an insurance-approved “faith-practice” somewhat akin to a form of religion; then that potential client should read up on the research into the influences of a highly positive and trustworthy social environment where one can be completely honest without fear. This stuff is evidenced-based and solid (I think). And it matches up with therapy practices, with the additional factor that therapists are trained in how to keep the client’s interests up front, to be tolerant, to he useful, to be focused.
Psychotherapy can be exhausting work. Therapists can and do burn out.
But for all that, they mostly do good things.
If someone gets into therapy, it’s up to the client to drive the therapy forwards and make it work for the client. The therapist can’t “fix” the world or other people at all. The therapist can’t “fix” the client. Ever. No exceptions.
And the therapist can’t help the client with anything the client does not take the lead on. The client not only takes the lead, the client does so every minute, every hour. No sitting back and thinking things will get better. If a client does that, things won’t.
The exceptions to the above are likely to some degree with grief, ptsd, shock, trauma, loss, dislocation, abuse, and similar. Sometimes people gotta just let healing/grieving happen. Or sometimes people gotta grieve things they didn’t know they had to grieve. Eventually tho, no one gets better without working for it.
Like everything else in life that involves self-awareness: therapy works best in the intelligent, the educated, the inquisitive, the self-reflective, the non-defensive, the self-starters. People who would prefer to try and fail and try again and again, rather than not try.
People who live by excuses; who think they don’t have to improve themselves and their approaches to life as they see the means to do so; people who don’t seek and reach out for opportunities; these people don’t do well in therapy.
Cue: lightbulb jokes.
@moondrake @jerk_nugget If you don’t want to use medicine or cannot afford it or therapy you can also look into medicinal herbs and supplements. For anxiety there’s St. John’s Wort which is an antidepressant herb and is one of the most popular ones among anxiety (but interacts with a lot of things such as other medications which it does in my case) since it is a gentle sedative and helps w/insomnia and and anxiety. Valerian (good to take at night) is actually the plant that Valium was derived from. However, prolonged use is not recommended usually you take it for about 3weeks and go off of it and then when needed, if something else doesn’t work in between, then another round is started. Passion Flower has a tranquilizing effect on your nervous system and is specific for anxiety and insomnia & is non habit forming. Hops is a sedative and is usually combined w/ Passion flower to enhance its action to help w/ nervous tension and insomnia. A German study used Hops and Valerian as an alternative to benzodiazepines but is not recommended for anxiety if depression is part of the reason for anxiety. Lemon Balm can help reduce nervousness associated w/anxiety. It is safe for short-term use and most people can tolerate it. Obviously I looked into herbal remedies for both migraines &insomnia but I’m on a crap ton of meds. You can look into specific herbs for strictly anxiety and/or depression as well as supplements. I just know what I put down while looking into my struggle with sleeping/migraines as well as some depression when I couldn’t work anymore because of my disability but @f00l also hit it right (as f00l usually does) in ref. to having to work on yourself- I’m still trying to get there.
@WTFsunshine
Working on yourself is difficult because what we are is so ingrained. Learned before we could verbalize, let alone try to be semi-removed intellectually from immersion in the immediate emotional events.
You might gets some books on recent developments in brain science, learning, habit formation, and what is called “deep learning” or “deep practice”. (Books about humans, nothing to do with IT or tech).
Ignore the books about classrooms learning. Go for the stuff on individuals and habit formation.
If you start to understand the brain science of learning, (learning basically involves, in physical-brain terms, your brain making certain neurotransmitter, electrical, and and biochemical pathways operate more efficiently thru repeated or intense stimulation. Or through trauma.). you can start to use cognitive principles, knowing your own instinctive reactions and habitual thinking, re-training, etc, much more effectively. once you can sort of do a visual map what the brain is doing, this can take a lot of the guilt, hopelessness, and sense of failure out of the process.
You don’t need textbooks. Certainly not as starters. NYTimes general non-fiction type books are fine. Ok, I have not tried textbooks. They may be even way better. Dunno.
Unfortunately, many people learn to live depressed and anxious lives as children, and that’s the most instinctive ingrained kind of learning. The reactions are so efficient that they happen before conscious thought.
Amd since they are the way we think, we don’t know what’s outside that (or what are alternative states of mind we have little ability to understand in terms of how those states of mind “feel” or are experienced.)
But people can still hack their own emotions and reactions to a decent degree. Over lots of practice and experimentation. One gets better at it over time. More effective, more efficient, more practical, more insightful.
And in some cases meds (or herbs) can really help this along.
@jerk_nugget
Years ago I needed to find therapy for a friend. Who had no heath insurance. I was also looking for other resources (he was recently diagnosed with something serious).
So I called United Ways, local # just to see.
The local number is the “first call for help” number locally. I don’t know if that’s what their number is called nationwide.
Turned out to be a good thing to do. They didn’t do it themselves; they referred one to other organizations. Locally there were more than 20-30. This was more than 25 years ago but perhaps it is the same.
Mostly very low fee sliding scale. (Sometimes near-free). (Catholic and Jewish charities both did this, for the community at large (and they did not care, and did not ask, any questions at all about religion. They just paid for a few regular therapists to do charitable work. The therapists were quite high-quality).
So did the local Women’s Center (for everyone, not just for females).
So did MHMR. (Quality not as good). So did the local med schools. So did not Protestant denominations. (Again, they don’t care about your religion or lack or religion).
The counties did stuff, but that will have changed to matchup with Onanavare now.
So did some other organizations.
Many of them will have waiting lists. Some didn’t.
I don’t know about resources for access to someone who can prescribe. MR, the county hospital, and the local med schools may do that. Also an internist or GP amd family ora titiiner may do that for a patient. Always good to ask.
The other place I found resources was that somehow or other I waylaid a social worker at the county hospital and asked that person. That person (a great and generous human) went beyond the call to look stuff up and give me list of numbers. I called around, and by the time my friend was medically stabilized, I have found something for him.
So it can be worth it to hit the web sites and get on the phone.
The thing is, don’t get discouraged. (Yeah I know I’m saying that to a depressed person. Catch 22. But try not to get discouraged as best you can.). Most may not be available or mesh with a specific person. You just keep trying until you find some resource that will help.
Checking these out is a huge tIme-suck PITA. Be prepared for that.
@f00l I tried a sleep clinic and failed. I tried cognitive behavioral therapy and failed. When I could work I still had problems with insomnia but it was from the adrenaline rush from working at the Sheriffs Office (which at times were in their own right therapeutic by helping others with their lives) but after getting injured and sidelined with what to do next I chose 911. Got back my adrenaline rush and the same therapeutic feeling with dealing with the calls received and dispatching and making sure my responders were safe. After getting sidelined again with my disability (RRMS) the lesions on my brain have killed and/or destroyed certain lobes that make a human being a human. When my MS relapsed this last time I dropped down to 97lbs. and lost the ability to walk. Not being able to walk and hold my husbands hand, go to the movies or social functions because of the noise, missing my oldest sons life in California while in the Navy because I can’t travel (can’t drive, heat, cold, lack of strength and the list goes on) and missing my younger sons events (mostly same reasons as above) sends you straight into depression which I’ve tried to over come. I have a great family and my parents moved close to help us (adds to guilt and not having freedom to do the things a parent (me) should be able to do takes a toll. Because I take 12 different medications that is why I turned to looking into medicinal herbs and supplements that don’t interfere with my prescriptions. I know what’s wrong with me but it’s a day to day challenge. Because I worked so long in public service my disability insurance is pretty good and I’m still on my husbands insurance (waiting to see how badly Trump messes with it) but I draw my disability pay through PERS so I can’t even volunteer for trying to work some place or I risk losing it (don’t worry people I will never touch your social security
). As for your leg work for your friend I love you even more 
. One other thing @jerk_nugget can try - I use to also work at the helpline. Sure it is for people who want to hurt themselves or are being hurt or tips on drug dealers and children being abused in many forms as well as the homeless needing some place to stay in the winter (surprisingly there are very few homeless shelters in our surrounding counties) but we also assisted in finding therapist and doctors and hospital services for callers. If you have a helpline or hotline in your area also try that. I’m usually not one to share my life story, especially in an open forum, but I sort of felt compelled to if only because it is giving me back the feeling of possibly helping someone as I use to be able to do. I’m thinking I should erase this but I’m not going to.
@WTFsunshine i just wanted you, and @f00l to know that i read all of your replies, and have them saved in my inbox, even. and i thank you very much, and even moreso appreciate you sharing your stories.
one of the things that annoys me most about myself is that i will read something, think “i should reply” (or “i should do this simple task” after thinking of it) and then…nothing happens. i even imagine doing it in my head, usually repeatedly, and it probably takes up more time than actually doing it. then, after [length of time] of inaction, i become anxious that i haven’t done it, and overthink it - including feeling like “well, it’s too late now” but being too embarrassed/anxious to remedy it, and then more time goes on, and then i feel like a dick because i must appear like a dick when someone reaches out and gets nothing from me in return. anyway, i am trying to be better about it, so here i am. this does not warrant a back pat or a medal, i just wanted you both to know how much i appreciated the discussion.
and because ironically/annoyingly, when i bother to reach out and go without immediate response, i start thinking up ridiculous reasons why that is, even though i do the same damn thing. (and because most ‘normal’ people probably have ‘normal’ reasons like they’re busy or they went to bed or they forgot or simply have nothing more to add.)
hope you are having a nice week so far.
@jerk_nugget My sweet, sweet man…you are talking to two procrastinators. We pre-, pro- and post- crastinate all the time. Please feel no angst for it. I won’t put words into @f00l s mouth but in reading her comments and posts for the past year I’d have to say neither of us 1. think you are or should feel like a dick 2. harbor no ill will (at least with you but some others might deserve it
) and 3. we all have things that come up or get in the way with our life so when, or if, you get around to it (or not) it’s all good. I just went back to look at the previous sale of the Star Wars replicas because I wanted to see what the two extra items were from when I purchased them before on May 4th and noticed on May 6th someone had typed in a reply. So, let yourself off the hook, from what I can tell there are no rules/timelines here or in regular daily life. Maybe certain obligations if you work or with family/friends and such. My disability gets in the way from things I want to do or think I should do (like writing a thank you note to my husbands fire department when they took me to the hospital when I dropped down to 87lbs. and had a MS relapse where I lost the ability to walk - and that was in late 2015/early 2016 - still haven’t done it) so don’t you worry or apologize. I’m not going anywhere - or at least that’s the plan - who knows what’s to come. Rest your weary mind.
Massage therapy.
I married a therapist…
/giphy so i got that going for me
