Dilemma
5Ok. I need advice.
My best friend just told me today that her boyfriend gave her a promise ring.
She’s been dating him for two weeks. They dated previously for 3 weeks and he broke up with her because she didn’t call him and text him all day while she was trying to get a specialized medicine for her dog. He didn’t call or text her either. So, two way street.
I was happy when they broke up because he’s been in jail for the last four years or so because of fighting and one count of hitting a child. I tried to hold back any judgement but it was a relief at the end. He’s still married. He told her he loved her from the moment they met. She even told me that she was overwhelmed and he was mad that she didn’t love him back right away. He has two kids. One with his wife and then one with another woman. She met the nonwife and that woman was fucking pissed because she didn’t have any warning that my friend was with her kid.
I’m trying to be a supportive friend but now she just told me that they are talking about marriage once he gets divorced.
I just see red flags everywhere. My friend just jumped into this relationship because she had a few deaths in the family and she didn’t want to be alone.
After the first break up she went out with a guy that she was fighting with several times before they even met and I told her he was not worth her time. After that shit fell apart.
I just feel like she’s being completely self destructive and it scares the shit out of me.
I don’t know how to be a supportive friend when I think this dude is just love bombing her and taking advantage.
He doesn’t have a steady job. He just works side jobs. He lives in an apartment that his parents own. After they broke up I told her that I think he’s not trying to get a real job because the state will garnish his wages for child support. She even agreed with me.
Anytime I tell her any concerns she says “I don’t let him take advantage of me.”
How do I be supportive when I’m worried as hell?
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The only thing you can really do is be there for her when her world falls apart. Unfortunately, if you keep trying to push her away from him it’s gonna drive a wedge between you and her. She has to find out everything for herself. Just be a supportive friend, be their for her when she needs a friend, don’t bad talk him constantly bc she will say that your not supporting her relationship. That’s all the advise I can really give.
@Star2236 thank you.
@RiotDemon I completely agree with @Star2236. I had a similar situation w a gf YEARS ago and decided to talk to her about it. Not only did it drive her to him, it ended our friendship.
Just be as supportive as you can when she needs it.
If you value her friendship, very carefully. There isn’t much you can do when someone gets into a situation like this. Just be there if and when the pieces fall apart.
I also see a parade of red flags.
No easy answers as you can’t control other adults. That said I would not be willing to socialize with him . I would be clear that you disapprove. That you have her back and will help her when they break up (likely in next few weeks)
@CaptAmehrican I am afraid of when I meet him that it’ll be clear that I disapprove. I was hoping that maybe some of my bad feelings would go away but I have a feeling that it’ll just confirm my suspicions.
@CaptAmehrican @RiotDemon this is a tricky road fraught with pitfalls on all sides. You’re completely right, but no she will never hear you until she has learned it firsthand. Here’s my opinion, not even two cents worth but I’ll share what I think:
Honesty is a big guiding factor here. You have to be able to let your friend know you support her overall without enabling her on this. So don’t try to fake liking the guy, but maybe do your best to bite your tongue and try to be cordial if you all hang out.
Bad people and users thrive by isolating the object of their use, so chances are you won’t all hang out much anyway. And anything you do to try to show her this guy is bad news will just help push that along. So when you are around your friend, be genuine, be supportive, and try to encourage good choices without badmouthing the guy. It ought to be clear enough if you are naturally excited about other things y’all do and very meh neutral whenever this guy comes up without you having to say anything directly. And even if it might feel clingy, try to check up on her or do things so the two of you can stay connected and decrease the chances of him isolating her completely.
And then, like everyone else says, be there to help pick up the pieces when it does go where it’s going.
Thanks all. She could see there was something going on and I ended up breaking down and crying in front of her telling her that I was afraid. I didn’t get too much into details but she kept telling me all these issues and I flat out told her that there is huge red flags waving and she kinda laughed it off.
I just knew it was bad news because as soon as they started dating she dropped me like a hot potato. She was supposed to come see me on Halloween and he basically convinced her there was no point since I was going to be dressed up. I wanted her to see that. He took her to play pool instead. I told her the next day that I was mad at her for cancelling last minute for him. She told her man that I was mad and he was like “oh, tell her I’m sorry! We have to make it up to her, etc.”
I’m kicking myself because a couple of weekends after they had broken up, I had this weird nagging feeling that maybe I should call her. I told myself that I was being too clingy. We work together and we both had the same weekend off. I figure I’d leave her alone for a few days. Sure enough, she called him up because the shit went south with the other guy and she called the ex and they got back together.
@RiotDemon That sucks. I’m sorry.
Sounds like a no win situation where your friend is eventually going to get hurt and there isn’t likely much you can do to stop it.
At a point that is appropriate (as in, unless there is an opening, do this once she has broken up again) maybe talk with her about why she is willing to go out with a man who cheats and doesn’t treat her very well, has few prospects, is a people user - or whatever you notice that you can generalize in to behavior types - blah blah blah. Maybe talking about what she wants from a man and how she might/where she might go/etc. to actually have a better chance of meeting a man that will really make her happy, she won’t have to worry about cheating, will be her best friend…or whatever, for her, are the important things she is looking for and wants from some one.
He is meeting some need(s) of hers or she wouldn’t go back (your mention of the deaths in her family, as you say, likely has a chunk to do with it) and finding other ways to try to help her meet some of those needs might help keep her from being with him. It might be just not being alone is a big thing. Or doing something that distracts her from all the losses she has suffered. Or she might be lonely… In talking with her you might be able to figure it out what is driving her to be with this loser and so instead of pointing out the issues (which you say on some level she knows), do things with her that also fill some of those holes and that might naturally get her to drop him and not go back.
If you think he is an abuser, or behaves in ways consistent with some of the controlling, etc. behavior that abusers use to manipulate someone, maybe read about how you can help people get out of, stay out of, not get back involved, etc. in relationships like that.
And as others have said there is such a fine line between supporting your friend and driving her away trying to protect her from what you so clearly see as you are being a good friend.
Good luck. Not easy and its hard to watch a friend head down a path you know will end in disaster with no real sure fire way to stop them.
Hey RD. Sounds like you are a good friend, and have done all you can to help mitigate the situation before it blows up and the shit hits the fan. At this point I suggest you need to keep in contact (should be easy if you work together) and let her know you are there for her if/when she needs you. Meanwhile I would certainly try to pull back a bit so you can maintain your distance and not encourage (or at least make it seem like you are encouraging) her relationship with a guy who:
You can’t blame yourself for her failings, nor can you prevent her from making bad choices. All you can do is try to (gently) point out the bad choices (you’ve already done that) and then step back and let her be her.
The advise that Kidsandliz gave above about trying to fill some of the gaps she appears to have is good if you can do that without involving the new beau yet not seeming to diss her actions.
I feel for you and am concerned about your friend. Anything I could say would only mirror 99% of what has been shared here. You are lucky to have this forum of intelligent and caring people. Indirectly, so is your friend. Try not to dwell on the situation so much that it affects you. You know, the old “God grant me the serenity” thing. Keep us posted about any significant events, though. We care.
From the post and all the comments I’ve read and everyone’s responses to you, I think that they’re right that you can’t intervene. If you feel that you cannot trust her to make the wrong decision right now, it might be easier to shift her views by asking questions––not ones that are pointed or that obviously are trying to influence her but ones that would still subtly shift her perspective as she responds. Pointing out her bad choices is something she might already be doing to herself in the few minutes she makes eye contact with herself in the mirror, rationalizing it to herself before she breaks her gaze. But gentle questioning forces her brain to make the extra leap itself to comprehend what she deserves and what’s wrong with her situation. I’ve seen a lot of friends hit rock bottom and although the final choice to actually change is their own, there are a few ways to not feel helpless as their friend. If their path of least resistance is avoiding something else they’re dealing with, you either have to make that seem less appealing or make the path to a healthier place seem easier to achieve (like faking it to make it). Gentle questions in moments of vulnerability might be your ‘in’ to getting her mind right. really sorry about your situation hope everything turns out alright
There’s not much more for me to say except +1 to pretty much everything that everyone has said here.
Stay strong, and I hope the best for you, and your friend, and that things turn out the best with the least amount of woe.
Ask her to make a list of the pros and Cons of being with this guy in any form of a relationship, whatsoever. Ask her to be honest. Don’t help, let her do it. Maybe a gentle suggestion, if asked.
Also, what everyone else said.
Be prepared to lose her, since “your warnings are what caused everything to go wrong!”, or some bullshite.
God bless this meh-ress.
Honestly though, don’t get tied up in your “friends” stuff this much.
Live your life unless you are the friend you happen to be writing about.
Life can be hard and cantankerous.
Love yourself first before anything or anyone and then help others when you can. If your own self worth is wanting then focus on you and then others.
I had a similar situation … a deadbeat dad with anger issue, (ex wife and 3 little girls) started dating my friend. He owed 100k in back child support. I couldn’t stress enough to her that this guy was bad news. He couldn’t hold down a decent job. She had money. She bought a screen print business for him to run ($60k loans for the machines and supplies) and she told me one day he hit her. I said all those supportive friend things, and that please don’t have a kid with this guy.
I couldn’t make her see what I saw. They got married. Had a son. Defaulted on the loan, instances of dm, he was a huge jerk to her, isolated her from friends and family, stopped getting bids on work, they lost the house, the business, and she is now living 10 states away from him trying to build her life back. It took years but she said she finally saw enough with her own eyes.
@Colbyone21 this is what I’m terrified of. He was in jail for four years and he owes all that back support… And then when he gets divorced, that’ll be a new child support payment.
I’m just flabbergasted. If I was dating a guy for a week and found out that he has just gotten out of jail, I’d be like, “sorry, bye. Take some time to get your shit together.”
Not much you can do. Just support her. Let her know you’ll be there for her if she needs you.
And she will.
Try not to say things that could lead to “I told you so” situations in the future. She’ll feel shitty enough at that point.
As an aside, a promise ring after just two weeks? Two weeks? That’s scary fast.
@lisaviolet that’s what I was screaming! I mean they dated for 3 prior, but still, it’s not even two months.
@lisaviolet My question would be what kind of commitment is he expecting you to feel for a promise ring that a marriage vow didn’t hold for him?
@tightwad Well, yanno, you see it every day.
Somewhere along the line the feelings of “this is what I want it to be” override the reality of the situation. Anything to the negative is justified as “he won’t do that to me, I’m special”, because they really want to believe this time will be different.
Cognitive dissonance?
@rd
Everyone seems to have all the good stuff to say here it all makes sense. We all know you can’t control what other adults do and they’re going to do what they want and if they’re driven to do destructive or damaging things to themselves, except an extreme legal circumstances we can’t stop them and we probably can’t talk them out of it
So there you are and that leaves you feeling shitty and helpless. Not fun.
The one thing I would give some thought to
You may have to control how close you get to this friend on a daily basis
she won’t listen to you about her poor choice and it’s going to drag her life down and tear it apart if she goes forward
If you get involved every single day in the ups and downs of it it’s just going to exhaust you and there’s nothing you can do
the best way to be a good friend to a person like this is probably to step back offer to help in what our sound weighs when the person is willing to listen but don’t let them tangle you up in all the mess when they’re not willing to listen
Protect yourself and your own emotions because you can’t protect her and you need to be strong for your own life and possibly be strong for her if she ever decides to see sense
You can’t get involved in other people dragging their own lives down it will just drag yours down with them so a certain distance might be appropriate
What that might work out to be is up to you it’s something people do by feel and what’s appropriate at one time might not be what’s the best at another time
I’m actually more worried about you than about her because I don’t know her and there’s nothing I can do about any of that but I don’t want to see you torn apart by what might be inevitable
So do the best you can for her as a friend which won’t be much because she won’t let you and do the best you can to maintain your own quality of life
I’m glad you brought this up it’s always good to air things out and find out that people support you don’t forget that if this or other problems tear at you
Update for the curious.
They broke up again two nights ago. I went to her house yesterday to pick up the pieces. I spent all day there. She told me some more terrible shit about him and I told her how relieved I was that they weren’t together anymore.
Within a few hours of me leaving, she called him and they got back together.
I found out this morning. I told her that I was mad. We still went out to lunch after not talking the rest of the morning. I said some not very nice things basically about how I wish she had some self worth and realizes that she is worth more than that piece of shit and I said I would say no more on the subject.
Later she said something about how he got yelled at by someone for something we did while dropping off his stuff somewhere for him to collect and I basically said, “I don’t give a shit anymore. He deserves whatever nasty shit he gets.”
So basically I’ve been in a terrible mood all day and just don’t know what to do. I was supposed to meet him for her birthday in a few days but now that they broke up again and got back together… I don’t know if I could go and not chew him out. Let’s be real, I didn’t really want to meet him before this last situation anyway.
@RiotDemon I think it’s really unfair of her to put you through all that turmoil and upheaval and then just go back to him, wow. I’d be disgusted and furious too. I think you should protect yourself because you’ve already been there for her, leveled with her, and done what you can. How sad for you, though. I’m so sorry.
@RiotDemon It sounds like the situation is tearing you apart. I’d think for your own sanity you probably need to figure out how to back out of the middle of that mess. Maybe find some sort of short, appropriate for the situation, statement to make each time she tries to drag you into it… There are probably far better ways to say this, but something that makes these points might help: “I value your friendship, you know what I think about X (whatever is appropriate for the context, him, what he is doing, whatever), and I would prefer if we didn’t discuss this right now. I find it upsetting as I care about you.”
I know you will still worry because she is your good friend, however the level of your involvement in what is going on with the boyfriend crap needs to be at a level/in a way that doesn’t threaten your own emotional well being. It is clear she isn’t ready to step away, listen to reason… and unfortunately her choices are, as you can clearly see and she is blind to, going to eventually bring her a lot of pain. And even more unfortunately it doesn’t sound like you can influence her behavior at this point in time.
It’s hard when this kind of thing happens in a good friendship and I am so sorry you are suffering because of it.