@DrWorm ha, I hear you… that bed area makes me want to take deeeeeep breaths, I cannot imagine sharing with someone. Add in kids?? My head would explode.
Right now- no- just too much stuff.
If there was internet there, possibly- although it would suck giving up beer and switching to just liquor (beer bottles take up vastly more room than a liquor bottle).
We’ve talked about it and it would be a no-go for living but for a vacation retreat, or a short term rental in a place we want to go anyway, it would be ok.
But the loft ‘bedrooms’ where you can’t stand up, or sometimes can’t even sit up straight on the mattress? No.
@Shrdlu Wow! Your home sounds palatial! Mine (which once housed three of us) is 784 sq.ft., not counting a detached garage and an 8x12 screened porch, which is not especially useful in Florida.
[ Add usual boilerplate of uphill both ways barefoot in the snow…)
@PantHeist The wood board over the tub reminds me of an invention of mine- “tub desk”. It was way too fucking hot, I worked from home, and there was no A/C. I filled the tub with cold water and took a thick piece of styrofoam, balanced it on the rim of the tub, and put my laptop on top to work.
@PantHeist We often watch the ‘house hunter’ type shows and occasionally some insular New York City types actually experience illumination as they visit America and find ordinary houses, or even condos, with kitchens and master bedrooms as large or larger than their entire, very expensive, NYC apartment.
It is fun. I expect to see some NYC’r who is actually upgrading to a tiny house on those shows at some point. “Wow, its so big!”
People not in NY City don’t understand life there. So much more of life does not happen in your apt. And all the resources you might want are around the corner or a subway/cab ride away. People who are incredible experts on every subject or are astonishingly creative are all around.
Unless you are rich or have a special hobby/vocation or similar - or children - you don’t need space the same way.
You’ll be out all the time.
Tourists and visitors never experience the best part of Manhattan life. Which is that once you’ve been there a while, if you have the skills to get to know people at all, within 6 weeks you’ll already know a more geographically concentrated group of brilliant souls that you can find outside an excellent university or amazing corporation or very unusual community. And that’s just the beginning. No, better than a uni or a google. And concentrated, and there are more, everywhere you look. Hard to believe. But real. Google can’t yet afford the concentrated brilliance and energy that is Manhattan.
After several years you won’t believe the people you know. And everyone is everyone else’s resources. It works like that. You are always bouncing everything off people who bounce everything off you, and it just makes s richer and more creative mix.
People are always out. 24/7. Life doesn’t happen in the home the same way. The good stuff comes from some of the best encounters and conversations you could conceive of, all while the people respect you and your space and your time. They don’t wanna cling or grab or waste you time because they have too much going on, and they don’t want you wasting theirs, so bring your best.
The street energy and people have to be felt and experienced and interacted with to be believed. No place like it anywhere. Not even London.
The small size of most housing is one reason Central Park matters so much. And it’s huge.
People who move there try to go without sleep for the first half decade. They want to. At any age. There’s just so much. And I’m not talking about plays or restaurants or clubs or concerts or tourist stuff or famous or guidebook stuff. That’s extra. It’s actually hard to find time to get to the famous tourist stuff if you live there, even if you’re retired. Because you keep getting offered better every day.
Funny how many people visit for the “attractions”. The city’s best and finest attractions are reserved for the residents, because the incredible part is the people you actually get to know. And you gotta live there to do that.
You gain energy by just being, living there. Just go out on the streets and breathe.
Also New Yorkers have energy because everyone walks miles amd miles every day, even the rich. And they walk fast. and they avoid horrible food. The good stuff is the norm, not processed garbage. Good food is affordable and everywhere. Manhattanites are, as a group, kinda healthy.
Not that you can’t get this elsewhere. You can. But not in the same intense concentration.
Yeah a lot of people. But also a lot - a lot - of privacy. They don’t intrude without an invitation. Once you learn to navigate the privacy thing vs the social thing, you will have all the privacy you want. New Yorkers respect privacy better than many other places.
People can be a bit brash. They speak their minds but don’t expect you to agree. But they are mostly nice, friendly, helpful, honest. once you get the feel of them.
Solitude? Not like in a true rural area, no. But more solitude than you would find in public in most cities, because NYkers cherish solitude and respect it.
If you are a decent person, have even a little people savvy, and enough money, it’s incredible and basically you’ll be very happy
$$$ is the prob. Cheap when I was there. So damned expensive now it’s becoming an island only for the rich.
It’s like the best intellectual resource and playground and skunk-works all in one.
It’s kinda hard to explain. If you ever live there, you’ll figure it out.
@KDemo I’m not possessive of books. To look at the couple of hundred I keep you’d never guess I was a reader. But those couple hundred are favorites I go back to and reread every couple of years. And a handful of autographed volumes. Books I expect to only read once are turned into fresh books at the used book store or donated to transitional living centers.
@moondrake
Need to weed out hardbacks and paperbacks this spring.
Do have some rare ones, and photography or art books, or vintage kid’s books, and a bunch that have never been e-published.
Need to winnow again. Clear ones I can purchase or borrow easily as e-books or books that I like but don’t love.
At least once a decade have to give away or sell lots of books.
At those times I find I’m very popular suddenly. Don’t mind that. Book lovers.
Incidentally, the laws are changing. Upgrading if you will. In many states you can, or will, be able to bestow your digital items in a valid will just as you can physical ones, and an executor will be able too disburse according to your wishes.
Good to know someone will wind up with my audiobooks someday.
too embarrassed to tell the size of my audible library …
We’ve talked about doing something like this as a transitional thing. But I think we like designing, strategizing, and dreaming a lot more than we would enjoy actually doing it.
My house is technically 1190 Sq ft, but about 1/3rd of it is in the semi basement lower floor which is just the game room and laundry room. The actual living area of the house is about 800sq ft I don’t think I could live anywhere smaller, especially with a giant breed dog. His bed is the size of the living room in that place.
Well I lived on a ship for five years and all the personal space I really had was my rack (called a coffin to give an idea of space) and the head I was currently using (if the stall doors weren’t broken off), and I honestly got used to it. The whole space thing isn’t make or break for me.
@djslack I don’t see a tv, and those chairs don’t look very comfortable. The only comfortable place in the house I see is the bed, and I don’t spend much time there. It looks heavily dependent on use of the outdoor space, so if it was someplace really temperate, yet also mosquito free, it could work. Anyone know of a place like that?
@lisaviolet I thought you were just outside of San Diego. The area is has micro-climates, so a few miles can already be the difference between lightweight-longsleeve and shorts-and-tank weather.
In my crazier moments I think The Spouse and I could do it if we pared down to the bare bones. Problems arise when we look at the “bedroom” options, anything that requires steep stairs or [groan] a ladder is totally out of the question. And he’d rather ditch a living room in favor of book storage. Oh, and we’d have to find space for the two dogs; fortunately they’re both smallish.
Although could also live in 10000 of them connected together. I would need to collect a cult of worshippers to do the housekeeping in the later instance.
Wife and I shared 500 ft2 apartment with one bathroom with another couple for six months when the four of us were all broke and outta’ work. Surprisingly, we’re still friends with the other couple. I absolutely could live in 500 ft2. My wife could not.
In terms of living space, I could deal with something like that, though I do not like a low ceiling over a bed and see no point in a king sized bed anyway.
I would need a bunch of storage space and a small workshop tho. Fortunately that tiny bit of living space has plenty of room next to it for a 40’ intermodal container to get a storeroom of ~320 sq ft with an 8’+ ceiling. In fact, maybe two of them… might as well use one as part garage and part storage.
My condo is officially 760 sq ft but this does not count space below grade. The fully finished basement with 7’ ceiling is ~680 sq ft and a separate storeroom with 6.5’ ceiling is 48 sq ft. No garage or parking space, so I have ~1450 sq ft total.
@baqui63 I had a king sized bed for many years when I let the dogs sleep with me. They’d snuggle up, snuggle up, snuggle up till I was hanging off the edge, I’d get up to pee and get back in on the empty side. I switched it for a twin day bed and regained a lot of square feet of my large bedroom. The dog bed is almost the size of the daybed but I move it around during the day to meet my space needs.
@katylava Well my apt is around 425sf and it is cramped unless you own about nothing. Of course it only has one closet and without all those clever space saving designs.
I lived in a 400sqft cottage for 2 (school) years (18mo) while our house was being built. It was my fresh/soph years of HS; shared the space with my parents & brother. The key, as others have said, is to spend a LOT of time in other places. I was on football, swim, & tennis teams (plus studying @ library) so besides normal classes there was a TON of time at school.
In the summer was outside mostly, riding bike around town w/ friends & goofing off. Spent a lot of time at construction site, too.
Cottage time was mostly eating & sleeping.
Hope to spend much of the winter seasons traveling between ski resorts in an RV (or trailer) once I retire, so a tiny space would be the norm. Ski, read, surf the web.
Looking to remodel a barn or such (or even scratch-build something) for living space & workshop the rest of the year. We’ll see how the health and $$ hold out
@RiotDemon Very long. Very rambly. I have a 2 minute and 27 second attention span, apparently. 18 minutes and change is more time than I’m willing to give up. Claustrophobia!!
@RiotDemon I rented a hotel room in Yokohama. There was a tiny bed, only about 2/3rd as wide as a twin . By the head of the bed was a small table with a drawer and a small tv. That took half the floor space, so there was about 3’X3’ open space, just enough to open the door. At the head of the bed was a box about 3’×4’ which contained a toilet, a shower and a sink in the shower. There was a plastic curtain which somewhat kept the water off the toilet. The door had a rack for hanging clothes, the suitcase went under the bed or you couldn’t open the door. I’d make the whole place including bathroom at about 10’×6’. It was so claustrophobic that I’d pull out my suitcase to hold the bathroom door open while showering. When we cruise the cabins are usually around 400 Sq ft including bath, tight quarters for two friends, and I sure wouldn’t want to live in it. But we don’t spend much time on the cabin.
No. I don’t have rich enough parents or relative where I could park it at. Seriously you can’t park them anywhere.
Also I’ve seen the show a few times, it mostly seems to be a trendy thing to do among the mid to upper class level kids. One was built at their parents concert venue, or something.
Anyways, outside of the fact you can’t park them anywhere. No I couldn’t do that. Especially with two little kids.
I have one. My Travel Trailer. We stay in it a few weeks a year.
Otherwise, I stay in my 2460 sq ft house & have a 1700 sq ft workshop. Also a large barn, a greenhouse & a chicken coop.
@compunaut I pull it with my farm truck.
It’s a 2014 Dodge Ram Laramie 2500, Cummins turbo diesel. A fantastic truck with torque to spare. It really doesn’t know that little trailer is there. I’m driving up I-5 ‘Grapevine’ towing the trailer at 70MPH & it doesn’t need to downshift… (I do pop it out of overdrive though). I’ve had a pallet of cottage stones loaded in the back with other stuff & she loves it. Loads of gravel are nothing… I do hate shoveling gravel though.
Camp Dogs:
@f00l Yes.
We were worried about hoards of squirrels attacking us while we relaxed with a few beers. The dogs won’t let a single squirrel get through their defenses.
@compunaut Skip the Rialta. The early ones were powered by the 110hp 2.5 inline-5, middle years by a 138hp 2.8 VR6, and the latest (2002-2005) by a 201hp 2.8 VR6. That’s not much to move 8,000+ lbs. Add to the aspect that the VW T4 (EuroVan) it’s based off of is not exactly known for its reliability and you’ve got a money pit – especially since even many VW dealers don’t/can’t work on them because of its larger size.
If price is a consideration, you’re much better off with a smaller class-C built off a Ford E-series cutaway. If size is the consideration, maybe a class-B instead?
@narfcake Needs to be small enough to legally park in std spots; 21-22ft is really max. No slide-outs. Toilet + shower (though Rialta tanks are so small they need emptying after every shower) :
Not too many out there that small. Older (90s, I think) Fleetwood Tioga w/E350, maybe. 2000-ish Gulfstream BT w/Econoline. There’s a new Freelander but it’s based on Transit (I doubt it’s much better than VW).
Most of the van conversions w/ toilet are tiny + expensive. Sigh…
@f00l Yeah, but ya can’t just park those trailers anywhere when going grocery shopping or to a concert or what-have-you. A small Class Bs is just a tiny rolling condo…
@f00l We’ve had a Tioga class C and now this travel trailer. It’s nice to park the trailer, unhook the truck & then be able to go to town without unhooking the sewer, power, water every time we want to leave the area to sight-see. The Class C & the travel trailer were both 1 or 2 years old (used) when we bought them. Also they were purchased in winter, when the salesmen were very hungry. We name a very low price & get in the car to leave. We tried driving around to those listed on Craigslist but that was a pain-in-butt.
(ps… I listed my truck as 2015, it’s a 2008. When I noticed it, I couldn’t edit…)
@compunaut My mistake. I thought it was more a B+ given its a custom chassis-cab job.
Have you also looked into some of the older Roadtrek models? They typically used GM vans for a base vehicle, though they did have some built on the older Dodge B-series and in more recent years, Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter vans and others. Higher floors due to them being body-on-frame instead of unibody, but more durable (being a cargo van at its heart), much more torque/power (at the expense of fuel economy) and much much easier to get serviced.
@narfcake Well IMO, the Winnebago-designed Rialta layout & shell is superior. It’s officially a Class B; chassis based on EuroVan (not sure how much customizing WBgo did). They are usually available for $25K or less. I might just have to buy one to see how limiting its power is…
Most Roadtrek & Pleasure Way units look pretty nice, tho I do NOT like the std opening rear doors. Older models don’t seem available; new-ish ones for sale are at least $50K
@compunaut AFAIK, Winnebago took the VW cab/powertrain and built the rest behind it, akin to the LeSharo back in the 80’s. Those were built off a Renault and had like 58 hp.
The regular doors on the Roadtreks are because they mostly just use the stock van body. It’s all a compromise, I guess.
@narfcake@compunaut@daveinwarsh@f00l Also the toyota and nissan class C’s are 17-23 feet depending on the model. Some people live in them although that would be seriously cramped. The 4 bangers are under powered a bit, V6 on the toyotas had a head recall and are fine after that problem has been fixed, nissans are more rare but their V6 has no problems. Need to be sure that the axles are 6 bolt as the 5 bolt were recalled (Toyotas only as Nissan never went 5 bolt) and not everyone took care of that. You can buy these from about $3000-8000 with some totally redone ones going for 10k plus, especially if 4 wheel drive. I owed an 88 nissan sunrader V6 which I sadly had to sell to pay for health care/insurance bills. There is a yahoo group minitruckcampers that discuss these and help people find them (mostly sold on craigslist).
@Kidsandliz Aren’t most of those Class C Toyota & Nissans 30+yr old? I’d be worried about all the mechanicals wearing out w/ no way to replace them
Family had one of those Toyota pickups when I was in HS (right after the Civil War ). Those mini-trucks were pretty good at hauling lightweight stuff; a load of bricks or lumber - not so much. We also had one of these Sun Lite truck campers.
@compunaut Yes they are old, but there are a ton of parts around both for the trucks and for the campers as the trucks were very popular for a long time and there are still a lot of them around. The ones to get would be the mid to late 80’s (last made in 1993) as the older ones (they were made as far back as the 70’s) it is a bit harder to find parts for the truck. The camper not so much so as most of the parts are basic RV things like 3 way fridges of standard size, propane stove of standard size, etc. The best of them are 2 piece fiberglass (sunrader).
@moondrake Or one foot on each one without zig zagging since we walk up stairs with one foot only on a given step and each foot isn’t like we were walking on a balance beam (eg heel to toe) anyway.
@Kidsandliz@moondrake It’s called an alternating-tread stair. Certain designs save beaucoup space cuz they can be steeper without feeling (as much) like a ladder
Alone? Absolutely…
@mikibell Yeah, in my single days I could have handled that, but with a family, that is just untenable.
@DrWorm ha, I hear you… that bed area makes me want to take deeeeeep breaths, I cannot imagine sharing with someone. Add in kids?? My head would explode.
No. Unless I give up most of my hobbies and my pets.
Would probably be nice for a vacation.
Right now- no- just too much stuff.
If there was internet there, possibly- although it would suck giving up beer and switching to just liquor (beer bottles take up vastly more room than a liquor bottle).
@dashcloud that wouldn’t suck too bad
@dashcloud 2 words. Root cellar.
We’ve talked about it and it would be a no-go for living but for a vacation retreat, or a short term rental in a place we want to go anyway, it would be ok.
But the loft ‘bedrooms’ where you can’t stand up, or sometimes can’t even sit up straight on the mattress? No.
I already do. It’s barely over 2200 square feet (not counting the attached garage, of course). I’d really prefer it to be a bit larger.
Could I live in that nightmare of a pretend house you showed pictures of? Um, no? No thank you? Nuh-uh?
Nope Nope Nope!!!
@Shrdlu Wow! Your home sounds palatial! Mine (which once housed three of us) is 784 sq.ft., not counting a detached garage and an 8x12 screened porch, which is not especially useful in Florida.
[ Add usual boilerplate of uphill both ways barefoot in the snow…)
@magic_cave my apt is less than 500sf, 2 rooms. Could stand a loft and for that matter some decent storage.
Me too, @magic_cave. 790 sq ft, carport but no garage or porch. Two little bedrooms, one little bath. Big enough for me, but not for my stuff.
I’ve lived in a 400 square foot apartment, and no- I could not. Never again.
@PantHeist The wood board over the tub reminds me of an invention of mine- “tub desk”. It was way too fucking hot, I worked from home, and there was no A/C. I filled the tub with cold water and took a thick piece of styrofoam, balanced it on the rim of the tub, and put my laptop on top to work.
@PantHeist We often watch the ‘house hunter’ type shows and occasionally some insular New York City types actually experience illumination as they visit America and find ordinary houses, or even condos, with kitchens and master bedrooms as large or larger than their entire, very expensive, NYC apartment.
It is fun. I expect to see some NYC’r who is actually upgrading to a tiny house on those shows at some point. “Wow, its so big!”
@duodec
People not in NY City don’t understand life there. So much more of life does not happen in your apt. And all the resources you might want are around the corner or a subway/cab ride away. People who are incredible experts on every subject or are astonishingly creative are all around.
Unless you are rich or have a special hobby/vocation or similar - or children - you don’t need space the same way.
You’ll be out all the time.
Tourists and visitors never experience the best part of Manhattan life. Which is that once you’ve been there a while, if you have the skills to get to know people at all, within 6 weeks you’ll already know a more geographically concentrated group of brilliant souls that you can find outside an excellent university or amazing corporation or very unusual community. And that’s just the beginning. No, better than a uni or a google. And concentrated, and there are more, everywhere you look. Hard to believe. But real. Google can’t yet afford the concentrated brilliance and energy that is Manhattan.
After several years you won’t believe the people you know. And everyone is everyone else’s resources. It works like that. You are always bouncing everything off people who bounce everything off you, and it just makes s richer and more creative mix.
People are always out. 24/7. Life doesn’t happen in the home the same way. The good stuff comes from some of the best encounters and conversations you could conceive of, all while the people respect you and your space and your time. They don’t wanna cling or grab or waste you time because they have too much going on, and they don’t want you wasting theirs, so bring your best.
The street energy and people have to be felt and experienced and interacted with to be believed. No place like it anywhere. Not even London.
The small size of most housing is one reason Central Park matters so much. And it’s huge.
People who move there try to go without sleep for the first half decade. They want to. At any age. There’s just so much. And I’m not talking about plays or restaurants or clubs or concerts or tourist stuff or famous or guidebook stuff. That’s extra. It’s actually hard to find time to get to the famous tourist stuff if you live there, even if you’re retired. Because you keep getting offered better every day.
Funny how many people visit for the “attractions”. The city’s best and finest attractions are reserved for the residents, because the incredible part is the people you actually get to know. And you gotta live there to do that.
You gain energy by just being, living there. Just go out on the streets and breathe.
Also New Yorkers have energy because everyone walks miles amd miles every day, even the rich. And they walk fast. and they avoid horrible food. The good stuff is the norm, not processed garbage. Good food is affordable and everywhere. Manhattanites are, as a group, kinda healthy.
Not that you can’t get this elsewhere. You can. But not in the same intense concentration.
Yeah a lot of people. But also a lot - a lot - of privacy. They don’t intrude without an invitation. Once you learn to navigate the privacy thing vs the social thing, you will have all the privacy you want. New Yorkers respect privacy better than many other places.
People can be a bit brash. They speak their minds but don’t expect you to agree. But they are mostly nice, friendly, helpful, honest. once you get the feel of them.
Solitude? Not like in a true rural area, no. But more solitude than you would find in public in most cities, because NYkers cherish solitude and respect it.
If you are a decent person, have even a little people savvy, and enough money, it’s incredible and basically you’ll be very happy
$$$ is the prob. Cheap when I was there. So damned expensive now it’s becoming an island only for the rich.
It’s like the best intellectual resource and playground and skunk-works all in one.
It’s kinda hard to explain. If you ever live there, you’ll figure it out.
If i was to live in a place that small it would be a boat
I think I would love it. It would make me spend more time outside, which I don’t do enough of.
@lisaviolet That’s what happened to us with books.
@PantHeist
Is 10,000 books too many, ya think? (Not including e-books).
@f00l No.
@f00l “If you have enough book space, I don’t want to talk to you.” --Terry Pratchett
The man was wise.
@Pixy
@f00l @PantHeist - Maybe you could get rid of just the bad-smelling books?
@KDemo The old ones are the best ones though
@f00l
@KDemo I’m not possessive of books. To look at the couple of hundred I keep you’d never guess I was a reader. But those couple hundred are favorites I go back to and reread every couple of years. And a handful of autographed volumes. Books I expect to only read once are turned into fresh books at the used book store or donated to transitional living centers.
@moondrake
Need to weed out hardbacks and paperbacks this spring.
Do have some rare ones, and photography or art books, or vintage kid’s books, and a bunch that have never been e-published.
Need to winnow again. Clear ones I can purchase or borrow easily as e-books or books that I like but don’t love.
At least once a decade have to give away or sell lots of books.
Don’t mind that.
Book lovers.
At those times I find I’m very popular suddenly.
Incidentally, the laws are changing. Upgrading if you will. In many states you can, or will, be able to bestow your digital items in a valid will just as you can physical ones, and an executor will be able too disburse according to your wishes.
Good to know someone will wind up with my audiobooks someday.
too embarrassed to tell the size of my audible library …
@PantHeist - I saw those Maurice Sendak interviews on Colbert Report - they were great.
@KDemo for sure. Just watched em again today
/image Bender’s apartment
@narfcake I’d prefer the closet.
KuoH
@kuoh
Lived in a closet for a bit. Grad school. Had an apt already, but it was not to be vacant for a first few months.
When I read Harry Potter I felt instant kinship.
@thismyusername i didn’t watch the video, but that’s just funny
Nope. Not wheelchair accessible in the least. None of those seem like they’ve ever even heard of ADA building codes.
@Jamileigh17 ADA codes don’t apply to private single family dwellings, AFAIK.
We’ve talked about doing something like this as a transitional thing. But I think we like designing, strategizing, and dreaming a lot more than we would enjoy actually doing it.
My house is technically 1190 Sq ft, but about 1/3rd of it is in the semi basement lower floor which is just the game room and laundry room. The actual living area of the house is about 800sq ft I don’t think I could live anywhere smaller, especially with a giant breed dog. His bed is the size of the living room in that place.
Well I lived on a ship for five years and all the personal space I really had was my rack (called a coffin to give an idea of space) and the head I was currently using (if the stall doors weren’t broken off), and I honestly got used to it. The whole space thing isn’t make or break for me.
@nickiwhite The Spouse did 20 years in the USNavy, and knows all about those living arrangements. You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din.
@nickiwhite
One grandfather was in the navy around 1900.
Somewhere a family member has the wooden chest for his possessions.
Approx
15" across
12" high
10" deep
That’s it.
In the 1960’s at a naval tour, he told a group of admirals: “We had wooden ships and iron men.”
Of course I could. Just put it behind my house. I’d live in the tiny house and use my other house for storage.
So when you say live… you mean visit, like a tree house when we were kids, right???
No. That’s stupid.
I suppose I could, but I’m not sure I’d want to. This makes you think about what you consider living to be.
@djslack I don’t see a tv, and those chairs don’t look very comfortable. The only comfortable place in the house I see is the bed, and I don’t spend much time there. It looks heavily dependent on use of the outdoor space, so if it was someplace really temperate, yet also mosquito free, it could work. Anyone know of a place like that?
@moondrake Maybe San Diego, CA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_San_Diego
@narfcake
She didn’t specify pricing.
San Diego $$$$$
@narfcake nononononononono! mosquitos! the weather warms up a little and BOOM! Mosquitos!
There was one in my bathroom yesterday and I saw them flying through the house last night.
@f00l Well practically anywhere in CA is $$$$$.
@lisaviolet I thought you were just outside of San Diego. The area is has micro-climates, so a few miles can already be the difference between lightweight-longsleeve and shorts-and-tank weather.
@narfcake Yeah, we’re about fifteen miles east. Hotter and drier out here.
@narfcake I lived close to the coast in La Jolla. We had skunks- I saw them nightly in mating season. Too many skunks to be living outside.
In my crazier moments I think The Spouse and I could do it if we pared down to the bare bones. Problems arise when we look at the “bedroom” options, anything that requires steep stairs or [groan] a ladder is totally out of the question. And he’d rather ditch a living room in favor of book storage. Oh, and we’d have to find space for the two dogs; fortunately they’re both smallish.
yes, without qualms, or wait…
without palms?
/youtube without psalms
@Yoda_Daenerys
Actually that recording is pretty pleasant.
(This is not a reference to any particular set of religious affiliations.)
@f00l Psalms are beautiful poetry, regardless of religious affiliations.
It would be an improvement over what I live in. The risk would be someone would tow it off. I read about a couple that lost their home that way.
There are a lot that are prettier though (inside and out). I saw one that the roof raised and had those RV slide outs which made it bigger.
One catch is whether or not you’d have to rent a storage unit to move from where you are into something that size. Then you don’t save any money.
They are way nicer though than some/many apartments.
A friend of my kid built the tree house equivalent in their backyard. Bedroom, kitchenette and living area. Their oldest lived in that.
Yes.
Although could also live in 10000 of them connected together. I would need to collect a cult of worshippers to do the housekeeping in the later instance.
Wife and I shared 500 ft2 apartment with one bathroom with another couple for six months when the four of us were all broke and outta’ work. Surprisingly, we’re still friends with the other couple. I absolutely could live in 500 ft2. My wife could not.
In terms of living space, I could deal with something like that, though I do not like a low ceiling over a bed and see no point in a king sized bed anyway.
I would need a bunch of storage space and a small workshop tho. Fortunately that tiny bit of living space has plenty of room next to it for a 40’ intermodal container to get a storeroom of ~320 sq ft with an 8’+ ceiling. In fact, maybe two of them… might as well use one as part garage and part storage.
My condo is officially 760 sq ft but this does not count space below grade. The fully finished basement with 7’ ceiling is ~680 sq ft and a separate storeroom with 6.5’ ceiling is 48 sq ft. No garage or parking space, so I have ~1450 sq ft total.
@baqui63 I had a king sized bed for many years when I let the dogs sleep with me. They’d snuggle up, snuggle up, snuggle up till I was hanging off the edge, I’d get up to pee and get back in on the empty side. I switched it for a twin day bed and regained a lot of square feet of my large bedroom. The dog bed is almost the size of the daybed but I move it around during the day to meet my space needs.
@mfladd
You have owned up to being a one-celled organism in the Super Bowl thread.
What you need space for anyway?
Dancing.
@mfladd
They’re playing your song.
@mfladd And yoga.
/giphy tiny yoga
no, i moved out of an apartment last year and just this weekend i was marveling at how great it was to have a garage to put my workshop in.
i think the pictures make them look a lot bigger and more comfy than they really are.
although, those tiny display rooms at ikea seem all right.
@katylava
/youtube ikea 270 sq.ft.
@narfcake
It could be accomplished. Wow would have to minimize minimize minimize.
@katylava Well my apt is around 425sf and it is cramped unless you own about nothing. Of course it only has one closet and without all those clever space saving designs.
/giphy hell no
I lived in a 400sqft cottage for 2 (school) years (18mo) while our house was being built. It was my fresh/soph years of HS; shared the space with my parents & brother. The key, as others have said, is to spend a LOT of time in other places. I was on football, swim, & tennis teams (plus studying @ library) so besides normal classes there was a TON of time at school.
In the summer was outside mostly, riding bike around town w/ friends & goofing off. Spent a lot of time at construction site, too.
Cottage time was mostly eating & sleeping.
Hope to spend much of the winter seasons traveling between ski resorts in an RV (or trailer) once I retire, so a tiny space would be the norm. Ski, read, surf the web.
Looking to remodel a barn or such (or even scratch-build something) for living space & workshop the rest of the year. We’ll see how the health and $$ hold out
Just move to Tokyo.
/youtube tokidoki traveler tiny apartment tour
Long rambly video… But damn. Probably one of the smallest places I’ve seen.
@RiotDemon Very long. Very rambly. I have a 2 minute and 27 second attention span, apparently. 18 minutes and change is more time than I’m willing to give up. Claustrophobia!!
@Shrdlu definitely a video to skip around when you’re short on time. Essentially she lives in a hallway. Insane.
@RiotDemon That still looks bigger than the “shoebox apartments” in Hong Kong …
/image HK shoebox apartment
@narfcake I had no idea it was so bad. That’s depressing.
@RiotDemon I rented a hotel room in Yokohama. There was a tiny bed, only about 2/3rd as wide as a twin . By the head of the bed was a small table with a drawer and a small tv. That took half the floor space, so there was about 3’X3’ open space, just enough to open the door. At the head of the bed was a box about 3’×4’ which contained a toilet, a shower and a sink in the shower. There was a plastic curtain which somewhat kept the water off the toilet. The door had a rack for hanging clothes, the suitcase went under the bed or you couldn’t open the door. I’d make the whole place including bathroom at about 10’×6’. It was so claustrophobic that I’d pull out my suitcase to hold the bathroom door open while showering. When we cruise the cabins are usually around 400 Sq ft including bath, tight quarters for two friends, and I sure wouldn’t want to live in it. But we don’t spend much time on the cabin.
Oops, 150 Sq ft. For two singles they divide the queen bed to two twins and move them apart to the walls with the nightstands in between.
@RiotDemon
That vid.
She has some charm but needs to learn to self edit or get someone to help her.
I gave up at the concert tickets or whatever they were. Under 3 min.
[[ note: “self edit”: I should talk. hypocrite alert! ]]
No. I don’t have rich enough parents or relative where I could park it at. Seriously you can’t park them anywhere.
Also I’ve seen the show a few times, it mostly seems to be a trendy thing to do among the mid to upper class level kids. One was built at their parents concert venue, or something.
Anyways, outside of the fact you can’t park them anywhere. No I couldn’t do that. Especially with two little kids.
I could, but my wife has made it abundantly clear that she could not. So that’s that.
I wanted to point out that not only are actual people living in tiny houses, but that they are providing a benefit to the community.
https://www.fastcoexist.com/3055771/change-generation/this-village-of-tiny-houses-is-giving-seattles-homeless-a-place-to-live
I have one. My Travel Trailer. We stay in it a few weeks a year.
Otherwise, I stay in my 2460 sq ft house & have a 1700 sq ft workshop. Also a large barn, a greenhouse & a chicken coop.
@daveinwarsh that’s a huge workshop!
@RiotDemon Yup. 24’x36’ two story.
@daveinwarsh totally jealous.
It’s bigger than my house!
@RiotDemon The Travel trailer is just 19’. Just enough room for 2 people & 2 dogs.
@daveinwarsh What vehicle do you use to pull the trailer?
I’ve been looking at
/image Rialta
@compunaut
I don’t know about modem VW engines.
I can tell you that the Ford Econoline/E150’s have great engines. @narfcake knows more about this.
@compunaut I pull it with my farm truck.
It’s a 2014 Dodge Ram Laramie 2500, Cummins turbo diesel. A fantastic truck with torque to spare. It really doesn’t know that little trailer is there. I’m driving up I-5 ‘Grapevine’ towing the trailer at 70MPH & it doesn’t need to downshift… (I do pop it out of overdrive though). I’ve had a pallet of cottage stones loaded in the back with other stuff & she loves it. Loads of gravel are nothing… I do hate shoveling gravel though.
Camp Dogs:
@daveinwarsh
Your camp dogs look ferocious. I’m glad they keep you all safe.
@f00l Yes.
We were worried about hoards of squirrels attacking us while we relaxed with a few beers. The dogs won’t let a single squirrel get through their defenses.
@compunaut Skip the Rialta. The early ones were powered by the 110hp 2.5 inline-5, middle years by a 138hp 2.8 VR6, and the latest (2002-2005) by a 201hp 2.8 VR6. That’s not much to move 8,000+ lbs. Add to the aspect that the VW T4 (EuroVan) it’s based off of is not exactly known for its reliability and you’ve got a money pit – especially since even many VW dealers don’t/can’t work on them because of its larger size.
If price is a consideration, you’re much better off with a smaller class-C built off a Ford E-series cutaway. If size is the consideration, maybe a class-B instead?
@narfcake
Again you save the day.
@narfcake Needs to be small enough to legally park in std spots; 21-22ft is really max. No slide-outs. Toilet + shower (though Rialta tanks are so small they need emptying after every shower)
:
Not too many out there that small. Older (90s, I think) Fleetwood Tioga w/E350, maybe. 2000-ish Gulfstream BT w/Econoline. There’s a new Freelander but it’s based on Transit (I doubt it’s much better than VW).
Most of the van conversions w/ toilet are tiny + expensive. Sigh…
Note: Rialta is a Class B
@compunaut
I priced those converted vans once for grins. OMG.
Can get a decent travel trailer for next to nothing in comparison.
@f00l Yeah, but ya can’t just park those trailers anywhere when going grocery shopping or to a concert or what-have-you. A small Class Bs is just a tiny rolling condo…
@f00l We’ve had a Tioga class C and now this travel trailer. It’s nice to park the trailer, unhook the truck & then be able to go to town without unhooking the sewer, power, water every time we want to leave the area to sight-see. The Class C & the travel trailer were both 1 or 2 years old (used) when we bought them. Also they were purchased in winter, when the salesmen were very hungry. We name a very low price & get in the car to leave. We tried driving around to those listed on Craigslist but that was a pain-in-butt.
(ps… I listed my truck as 2015, it’s a 2008. When I noticed it, I couldn’t edit…)
@compunaut My mistake. I thought it was more a B+ given its a custom chassis-cab job.
Have you also looked into some of the older Roadtrek models? They typically used GM vans for a base vehicle, though they did have some built on the older Dodge B-series and in more recent years, Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter vans and others. Higher floors due to them being body-on-frame instead of unibody, but more durable (being a cargo van at its heart), much more torque/power (at the expense of fuel economy) and much much easier to get serviced.
@narfcake Well IMO, the Winnebago-designed Rialta layout & shell is superior. It’s officially a Class B; chassis based on EuroVan (not sure how much customizing WBgo did). They are usually available for $25K or less. I might just have to buy one to see how limiting its power is…
Most Roadtrek & Pleasure Way units look pretty nice, tho I do NOT like the std opening rear doors. Older models don’t seem available; new-ish ones for sale are at least $50K
@compunaut AFAIK, Winnebago took the VW cab/powertrain and built the rest behind it, akin to the LeSharo back in the 80’s. Those were built off a Renault and had like 58 hp.
The regular doors on the Roadtreks are because they mostly just use the stock van body. It’s all a compromise, I guess.
@narfcake @compunaut @daveinwarsh @f00l Also the toyota and nissan class C’s are 17-23 feet depending on the model. Some people live in them although that would be seriously cramped. The 4 bangers are under powered a bit, V6 on the toyotas had a head recall and are fine after that problem has been fixed, nissans are more rare but their V6 has no problems. Need to be sure that the axles are 6 bolt as the 5 bolt were recalled (Toyotas only as Nissan never went 5 bolt) and not everyone took care of that. You can buy these from about $3000-8000 with some totally redone ones going for 10k plus, especially if 4 wheel drive. I owed an 88 nissan sunrader V6 which I sadly had to sell to pay for health care/insurance bills. There is a yahoo group minitruckcampers that discuss these and help people find them (mostly sold on craigslist).
@Kidsandliz Aren’t most of those Class C Toyota & Nissans 30+yr old? I’d be worried about all the mechanicals wearing out w/ no way to replace them
). Those mini-trucks were pretty good at hauling lightweight stuff; a load of bricks or lumber - not so much. We also had one of these Sun Lite truck campers.
Family had one of those Toyota pickups when I was in HS (right after the Civil War
@compunaut Yes they are old, but there are a ton of parts around both for the trucks and for the campers as the trucks were very popular for a long time and there are still a lot of them around. The ones to get would be the mid to late 80’s (last made in 1993) as the older ones (they were made as far back as the 70’s) it is a bit harder to find parts for the truck. The camper not so much so as most of the parts are basic RV things like 3 way fridges of standard size, propane stove of standard size, etc. The best of them are 2 piece fiberglass (sunrader).
My upright bass immediately vetoed the idea. The amps, speakers, and electric basses concurred.
Yes!
These tiny houses are mostly lovely.
http://www.zylvardos.com/photo-galleries/
and they have inside tours here
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvbQHNpCl0aF9uDW0lAOgNw/videos
Here is a link to one I like
http://tinyhousetalk.com/moondragon-tiny-house/
@Kidsandliz “Moondragon”? It must be mine! What is with those stairs? They look like each step is knee high.
@moondrake I think that is why they have those drawers on the right side of them. I think they are part of the step system too.
@Kidsandliz I thought of that but you’d have to zigzag, and no railing.
@moondrake Or one foot on each one without zig zagging since we walk up stairs with one foot only on a given step and each foot isn’t like we were walking on a balance beam (eg heel to toe) anyway.
@Kidsandliz @moondrake It’s called an alternating-tread stair. Certain designs save beaucoup space cuz they can be steeper without feeling (as much) like a ladder
