Confirm my biases: discuss your incandescent hatred of the biannual DST/ST clock changes here.

@ybmuG

Who? Me?

I’m not biased. I’m perfect.

/giphy perfectly biased

@f00l New Zealand has three time zones.

The most populated North and South Islands use New Zealand Standard Time (NZST). This is twelve hours before Co-ordinated Universal Time (UTC).

The other time zone is Chatham Standard Time (CHAST), covering the Chatham Islands, about 500 miles east of the main islands. This time zone is twelve hours and forty five minutes before UTC.

Interestingly many locations on Antarctica also use NZST time including the Admunsden-Scott South Pole Station.

The third time zone is for Tokelau, an archipelago in the Pacific and a dependency of New Zealand. It does not observe DST.

@f00l You ask me, there are two kinds of people: night owls and… worm eaters.

I guess we know what kind of person Benjamin Fucking Franklin was, don’t we. Where’s my coffee.

@InnocuousFarmer

Ben was messing with the French. They “got it”. They “bought it”. And they loved him for it.

As for being a night owl …

Ben was a widower at that time in his life. An “active” one. Supposedly rather “in demand” among the female French aristocracy.

And his reputation in France was such that he was “quite busy” and “probably awake” for some fair portions of the night hours.

@f00l How would they get it and buy it simultaneously? Is this one of those things I need to read comprehendingly?

… as opposed to glancing at a few words at random and calling it even.

@InnocuousFarmer

Colloquialisms, I think they call it. That’s why in quotes.
But WTF would I know?

@f00l I have noticed a strange correlation. The more tired and less caffeinated I am, the more confident I am that a man couldn’t make a sick joke about waking people up before noon if he wasn’t himself capable of that kind of mean prank.

@InnocuousFarmer

Waking people up before noon is kinda mean.

Esp if the “people” is me.

Sick jokes have their uses tho. Esp if I am the practitioner.

@tinamarie1974

Will you be excited, come spring, when you have to pay for this current extra hour at usurious rates, biologically speaking?

@f00l so I find everything this time of year exciting. My fav holidays, the weather, changing of the leaves, etc.

The opposite in the spring is sad. Less sleep, hotter weather, etc

@f00l @tinamarie1974 There is an easy solution here: fall back once per week, and never spring forward.

@f00l Don’t be stupid, it’s perfect.

@therealjrn

I’m perfect.

/giphy perfectly stupid

@f00l @therealjrn for some odd reason I’m not buying in to any declarations of “perfect”…

@llangley @therealjrn

I’m perfectly biased and perfectly stupid. And I prove those qualities all the time.

How can you doubt?

/giphy no doubt

@f00l @llangley You’re not stupid @f00l. Quit it, stop it.

What is really stupid is this claim that you’re stupid.

That’s just stupid.

@llangley @therealjrn

But I enjoy being stupid?

You would deprive me of that?

What an empty universe would result from that!

/giphy Empty universe

@RiotDemon

Let’s hope.

Daylight saving time is ending this weekend. These states want to make DST permanent

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/29/daylight-savings-time-2019-what-states-want-make-dst-permanent/2494759001/

@RiotDemon Washington state voted the same.

I don’t understand WITF the federal gummint has any say-so over what the states use as their time zones; that’s a huge mystery to me.
As a Floridiot, I was chuffed to hear my state legislature passed this bill. But then it went to D.C. and died.
The (Federal) Senate and House couldn’t find their own asses with both hands and a flashlight, so why do they have any say-so over what time it is in each state.

@simssj Here is the reason why they have a say
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ditch-switch-call-go-permanent-daylight-saving-time-grows-n1043051
although that doesn’t address why we have a federal statue about that other than the lawmakers at the time passed that law.

@Kidsandliz I’m guessing that the Congress-critters that passed that statute weren’t familiar with the 10th amendment, is what I’m saying.

@Kidsandliz @simssj Exactly. Kinda like medical and recreational marijuana…

@Kidsandliz @llangley @simssj
Funny how the states that bitch the most about states rights suckle at the teats of the federal government the most and impose a burden on their fellow states taxpayers the most. The worst offender deadbeat welfare queen state? Moscow Mitch’s Kentucky.

@Kidsandliz @llangley @simssj
Even funnier is that the Federal Law about DST is very squarely on the States’ Rights side of things.

Congress passed the Uniform Time Act of 1966, requiring daylight saving time, if followed, to be in effect statewide. They basically told the states to get their acts together and put the jackboot of the state more firmly onto the throats of towns and counties adopting whatever-the-fuck-we-feel-like time zones and DST dates.

If you have problem with DST, take it up with your state legislators. I thought it was particularly creative for one state (Delaware?) to adopt Atlantic Standard Time (AST is one hour ahead of EST) and then opt-out of DST, effectively implementing permanent DST.

@stolicat

As I understand it, CA (and other states) can’t adopt year round DST without permission from the feds. From Congress I guess.

CA can adopt year round standard time (as the non-reservation portions of AZ have, as Hawaii has), without permission from Congress.

CA could also opt to kill off DST and then change time zones, moving to year round MST, which would give the same daylight clock profile as being on PT with year round DST.
But I think that also requires permission from Congress.

It’s supposedly a bit complicated to implement, due to various transportation clock issues and other national and international technical matters which are automated based on local time.

But that could be BS. Maybe the US Congress just wants to be lobbied, and get more campaign contributions.

/giphy congrats arizona

@f00l

congrats arizona

On behalf of the great state of Arizona, the Grand Canyon state, the state of painted skies and painted deserts, I thank you.

@f00l @ruouttaurmind I’d be happy with either, but, yes, the ballot measure pased by voters last year to stay on DST requires congressional opinion.
Which brings me to the only reason to keep him for now:
https://www.10news.com/news/trump-making-daylight-saving-time-permanent-is-ok-with-me

@f00l @ruouttaurmind In fact, I’d probably prefer Standard Time - it’s light in the morning, and if I have a couple errands at the end of the day I often get to watch the sunset on the way home.

@ruouttaurmind

If I didn’t have family locally and other local connections , and I had no reasons not to move just anywhere that took my fancy, NM or AZ might be the most serious contenders.

/image Lake Powell

@f00l @ruouttaurmind @stolicat well, you could just move to the eastern most edge of the time zone. I mean there are options short of an act of congress.

@ruouttaurmind @stolicat @ybmuG

I don’t want to move at all tho.

That would be bad timing. My family is filled up with new babies right now. And I enjoy being around this odd phenomenon.

Locally we possess a surfeit of cuteness. This is good.

/giphy cute babies

Besides. I want to be a bad-tempered curmudgeon right now about this.

/giphy curmudgeon

@f00l @ruouttaurmind @stolicat well, at least you’re honest about it.

@f00l If for some reason I was forced to flee AZ, NM is probably the only other place I might be happy. Maybe Las Cruces. Albuquerque is just too damn crowded and has terrible traffic. Like DFW I guess.

@f00l @ruouttaurmind ABQ is actually quite nice and the Sandia Mountains are gorgeous. Haven’t been everywhere there, but never had issues with traffic.

@ybmuG I’ve driven through ABQ 7 times in the past 6 months. After the first two trips I learned my lesson: never exit the interstate. A four mile detour cost 20 minutes to drive it. Excruciating.

@f00l
Ditto!
Would have been there years ago, if it weren’t for my out-laws…
/giphy westward…

@f00l @ruouttaurmind @stolicat

Which brings me to the only reason to keep him for now

Nope, no, nyet…that’s not enough of a reason

@ruouttaurmind 4 miles in 20 min? Have you been to NYC, Chicago, Boston? That could be an hour on a good day.

@ybmuG I was traveling to Boston on a regular basis from 2000 to 2006. Ugh.
/image Boston big dig

@ruouttaurmind @ybmuG

And you survived Boston traffic!

/giphy Boston traffic

@ruouttaurmind @ybmuG I lived n the subs there [Waltham, Watertown, and Brookline] for about a year there in 1984-85, and that was before the Big Dig smoothed out the traffic flow a little.

@PhysAssist I haven’t been back since the dig project was in full swing. My first time there, a year or so after the project began. I made the grievous error of renting a car. I was staying at the Hilton downtown. Squarely in the center of the construction mayhem.

Subsequent trips were a series of relaxing cab rides. No more quickly did I reach my destinations, but I was in better state of mind once I arrived.

@ruouttaurmind It was crazy scary, and traffic backed up sometimes for miles/hours… I was working for Toy-R-Us as a Mgr trainee, and often had to drive a 15-seat window van to the inner city to pick up and drop off seasonal employees through the worst of rush hour traffic. My personal vehicle was a Chevette with MT. I had to have the clutch replaced when I finally got to come home…
I no longer [since that year] have any fear pf driving… ANYwhere.

@PhysAssist @ruouttaurmind Really hardens you, doesn’t it? Nothing like that here!

@ruouttaurmind @ybmuG Yes, but back home now, and I’m very glad it’s not like that here.

@j37hr0 wow - we could have a six day week - that’s very efficient!

@mml666 A better analogy would be moving the blanket down so it covers your feet instead of your head.

@baqui63

Because political institutional changes are so easily accomplished?

Ouch.

/giphy political committees

@mehcuda67

That idea kinda makes me look forward to the next @devastating e-pulse aftermath”.

@f00l @mehcuda67 I think it’s a brilliant idea!

and those people in my dreams aren’t imaginary … are they?

@mehcuda67 @stolicat

Everything is imaginary.

Except your question.

/giphy complex analysis

@mehcuda67 @stolicat

@f00l said:

Everything is imaginary.
Except your question.

@JnKL

The changeover creates genuine physical and medical problems for many.

@f00l @JnKL I never really bought that… IF that’s the case a LOT of people must lead VERY regimented lives. You trying to tell me that you don’t voluntarily stay up an hour later on some days than others? Is that so hard to do?

@chienfou @JnKL

Making a permanent (or many-month duration) change is quite a bit more difficult and damaging than messing with a sleep schedule for one or two days. It’s also worse for people who are already overworked or highly stressed, or who have complex ongoing responsibilities for the care of others, as parents and other caregivers do.

For typical young adults with no kids, it’s often “no sweat”.

The physical and brain effects for most are cumulative over many days. It takes weeks for full recovery. The first day and night usually isn’t the worst; that may come some days hence.

If you doubt this, just talk to anyone who has worked in a cardiac or an ER unit for several years running. Or check accident statistics. Or ask someone who runs stats/risk for an insurance company.

@f00l @JnKL
Actually, I DO work in an ER… for 25 years at this point. I was thinking maybe the fact that my schedule is ‘fluid’ based on census, acuity at end of shift etc. lends me to be more flexible in my response, not less.
In the past 3 months I spent several pay periods working over 110 hours in 2 weeks, consisting of some 8 hours shifts, some 16’s, some dayshift (0645-1515), some evening, (1445-2315), some nights (2245-0715) or any combination of 2 of those. Of course, being an EMT for several years before that may have helped as well. While I do get tired if I do 2 doubles back to back with only <8 hours off between them, staying a few hours late, coming in early etc. have never been an issue.
As always… YMMV

@chienfou @f00l @JnKL I am exhausted reading your post! I don’t know how you do it!!

@chienfou @JnKL

I know people who commonly work schedules as brutal as yours (several work in hospitals) and who adapt to that with relative small damage to themselves.

And others who are so extra-exhausted that they take a long time to recover from even minor day/night changes.

I think the effects if the changeover are highly individual, and highly dependent on health, stress, age, broadness and urgency of life responsibilities, etc.

(One hospital employee i have met who works a crazy schedule like yours gets by Ok. Another, who has youngish kids, even tho having caregiver help with the family, is constantly on the edge of total burnout and constantly in search of even 20 min of extra sleep.)

Obviously, their biologies and personal stress profiles are not identical. Obviously, issues in their lives also factor.

My family members who work in hospitals tell me that the “changeover effect” is noticeable particularly to anyone involved in cardiac care. And the most is the staff they work with claim that they really feel in themselves

I understand that the insurance industry stats (medical and accident) support the notion that this changeover is highly stressful over a fair # of weeks for many in the general population. My source is journalism here. I know one person who works in insurance and says most company employees expect regular measurable increases in claims after the changeovers.

@Limewater

Young children don’t sleep in, they don’t get up early, and they don’t go to bed early.

Young children can’t tell time… bedtime is when the sun goes down. End of debate. Wife and I loved winter in the upper midwest. Bedtime was about 4pm.

@Limewater BTW, One of these two scenarios will happen regardless of which of the systems we keep year round. If you want 12 hours daylight/12 of dark, move to the equator. Otherwise, get used to having seasonal changes.

@chienfou Don’t crow about your magical fairy tale children to me. My four-year-old gave up his nap at 2, when he finally started mostly sleeping through the night, and NEVER sleeps more than nine and a half hours a night.
My daughter is a little better, but she was three or four before she could handle the time change easily.

@chienfou The difference is that, without the time change, these changes happen gradually.

@chienfou The other issue is that Daylight Savings Time really exacerbates the instability of the change in daylight pattern.
In the summer, when the sun sets very late, DST makes it set even later. So your kids have to go to sleep while the sun is still out.
In the winter, when you’re desperate for some sunlight in the afternoon, switching back to Standard Time swipes that hour of daylight and sticks it in the morning when the vast majority of people are indoors. Your kids can’t play outside after you get home because it’s already dark.

@Kidsandliz then, in the summer, it was only dark for 5 hours… I remember those days as well.

@chienfou Where I was: leaves on the trees the third week of June, light snow mid August. Dark about 12:30am, light at 4am. Northern lights so many nights that they became ordinary. Winters the lows at night were 40-60 below F. When it was 20 below it seemed positively tropical.

It was sooo cool when Black Sturgeon lake froze over. Been subzero for days but really windy for days as well. Wind quit one night. In the morning 3" of ice that had Jack Frost forming on it. I stood there on the ice watching it, over a period of about 30 minutes go from completely clear ice to totally opaque white. The spread of the spidery white snowflake like tentacles was something you could actually see happening. One of the more seriously really neat things I have seen in my life. And it was so quiet (snow muffled all noise, well except sled dogs barking) that you could stand outside and hear your heart beat (and freeze your feet in about 30 seconds flat from the cold coming through the bottom of your feet if you stopped while cross country skiing). Amazing.

And as the ice shifted you could hear the sound go zipping along the ice cracks in the lake. Sounded like blowing on a pop bottle but was a low, deep almost groaning pitch. Just amazing. Of course I also decided I really liked electricity, indoor toilets (using outhouses where we had to draw straws to see whose turn it was to knock the pyramid over), running water, indoor heat that did not involve getting up at 4am to put more wood on the fire and regular trips to the roof to plug the chimney (we left a ladder against the building and had a tray hanging from the chimney) to put out chimney fires (um yeah can we say our wood wasn’t seasoned enough? Not to mention pine. We had a real creosote still going - about a number 10 can every 24 hours - also you had to bring the wood inside to thaw or throwing it on the fire would put the fire out)… Gave me a lot of respect for what our ancestors had to do just to take care of their basic needs, never mind trying to accomplish anything.

Something I was incredibly glad I did once but don’t know for sure that I’d like to do twice.

@Kidsandliz I lived in International Falls for a couple of years and can well remember most of those to one degree or another. Days on end when temp didn’t go above 0, Long summer nights and (seemingly) even longer winter ones.
Fun fact: 40 below zero is the same in Fahrenheit or Centigrade.

@chienfou Another fun fact: you can tell how cold it is from about -20 to about +12 (F) by how far up your nose your nose hairs freeze when you inhale.

@Kidsandliz what brought you up into the frozen tundra?

@Kidsandliz and having a beard was just a place for icicles to form.

@chienfou Yup. So was having eyebrows. Was working for outward bound back when they used to have a school up there.

@Kidsandliz …How cool.
/giphy rimshot

@Salanth Aren’t they more of a continual buzzing?

@PlutoIsAPlanet oh yeah…mine is still on Saturday’s time. I remembered that yet again today. Forgot which button, that has a zillion different functions, changes that and didn’t want to screw up the radio. I guess I’ll have to haul out the manual and look rather than just pretend it is on Ohio time (family lives there) on purpose (I live in central time).

@PhysAssist

@JnKL That would be my cats the first morning of this while I was trying to sleep. Umm guys there is food in the dish go eat that. I do not need you in my bed and on my face right now. No it will not make me get out of bed and I’m not petting you either. Go away. They finally gave up but by then I was wide awake. In revenge I waited until the new 7am to feed them. They were not happy with me.

@fogey2017 This has been my thought for many years now, but I fear we are the minority.

@fogey2017 The only problem is that the increased rate of accidents [motor vehicle, industrial, etc.], and cardiovascular events [strokes, heart attacks, etc.], will continue to elevated for weeks afterwards each time the time change occurs.

@jimjammer

And an increase in strokes and other medical issues worth an ER trip.

And uncounted small personal and work errors and crises over the next week or two, due to fatigue or minor disorientation.

@jimjammer It’s not just the change to DST, it’s the change back too, but obviously the change to DST is the more egregious of the two.
…and GOD bless your co-worker.
/giphy GOD Bless

PS: Collision [not Collusion- unless he meant to get hurt…]

@jimjammer There was no collusion

@DrWorm Like he said, no collusion, you’re imagining things.

@thismyusername

I’m thinking of them

.
.
.
Oops. Forgot.

@f00l @thismyusername Per the studies I have read, the changes to and from DST have never really netted any improvement in production or any other useful gains, while costing millions yearly…
In part because farmers get up when they need to regardless of clocks.

@f00l @PhysAssist @thismyusername

because farmers get up when they need to regardless of clocks

Which makes perfect sense!

@PhysAssist yea these days with our artificial suns and self driving mechanical harvesting beasts…

@thismyusername
Also this:
https://www.mdlinx.com/family-medicine/top-medical-news/article/2019/11/05/7584385?uic=ZZ3C71742E68654CFEB6333759FEDFD3EA&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FM Morning Nov6&utm_term=Daily Update Family with Sailthru Activity
Which is a new finding.
Previously the thought was that the ill effects were limited to a short term of impairment and increased risk.
/giphy Uh-oh

@Bandrik

There ya go. Excellent!

@Bandrik I’m just going to tell my boss screw the clock, I’ll be there when I get there.

KuoH

@Bandrik @kuoh

I’m just going to tell my boss screw the clock, I’ll be there when I get there.

I tried that by my wife didn’t find it funny.

@Bandrik @chienfou Well duh, wife time supersedes all clocks and timezones!

KuoH