Buying a car... How the hell.
30My car buying experience today:
Told the dealer I was looking for a specific used car. They said they could probably bring it in if I agree to numbers. Make an appointment. Go in. They show me a brand new car and not used like I told them I was looking for. We sit and I tell them what I want to spend. I’m pre approved by my bank. They show me a used car without the features I want. I still drive it to see if I like how it handles. They talk pricing. Way out of my league.
Manager comes out. I once again explain what I want and how much I want to spend per month. He tells me I should be looking at a new model because of all the rebates and they’ll get me in my price range. I humor them and they bring out a brand new one, missing the one feature I told them I wanted. Then I’m told that model would be double what I want to spend a month. At this point I’m tired and I just want to go the fuck home. I ask for my key back (they were appraising my car for trade in value) and eventually I get my key.
As I’m trying to leave, the manager comes out and stops me. Asks me what the issue is, etc. I tell him I’m tired and they didn’t have what I wanted, but I told the assistant specialist that if they had something used that matched my description, in my price range, I’d be back. He then starts to once again tell me that I need to buy new. I tell him again, that it is out of my price range. He asks me what my price range is, which we’ve already discussed several times at this point, and the guy actually scoffed at me and told me there was no way I’d get in that price range.
Motherfucker.
How the hell do people buy cars like this? No wonder carmax, carvana, etc are getting more popular.
- 36 comments, 76 replies
- Comment
So what you’re saying is, if you wat a job where you don’t have to listen to people, know what you are selling or be able to do math, you should work for a car dealer! Sweet!
I did pretty well with TrueCar and found this article very helpful before I went through the process:
https://www.findthebestcarprice.com/what-should-i-pay-for-a-new-car-truecar/
Yeah, this has been my experience consistently at car dealers.
Their thinking appears to be “you don’t expect to have a good time, so we have nothing to lose by ignoring you.”
If they’re super lucky, you’ll “fall in love” with whatever they offered you first, and buy something really expensive. If not, maybe they can wear you down and you’ll buy anything so you don’t have to go through this again the next time.
The only way out of it is to leave as soon as they ignore you the first time. You still won’t get to buy a car from them but you’ll have saved several hours of your time.
If you’re feeling really generous, you can tell them you’re going to leave if they don’t offer you the right car first, but you have to mean it, because staying shows that you’re willing to put up with their shenanigans.
i’ve been looking for a truck and omg sticker shock. i thought it would be nice to sell my tiny ranger and jeep grand cherokee and buy a 4 door truck. but the money i’d get for both of those would still only get me a rustly piece of shit. truck prices are insane right now
@spacemart I really wanted a truck when my Jeep spun a rod bearing in 2018 but as you noted even decent used trucks were pricy as heck, even for lower line 6 cylinder ones. The better Jeeps were also very highly priced. We bought a used 2017 Flex for a fair price from Carmax, though it didn’t have a couple features I would have liked, and it has been ok. But I miss having a truck or Jeep.
@duodec @spacemart
I feel for ya! Last year I was looking to trade in my five year old Nissan Rouge for the same thing only newer version to have the back-up camera/screen and it’s crazy rediculous how little the trade in value is. Totally not worth it!!
Ugh. Do you have AAA where you are? The one here will act as a broker and find what you’re looking for - that’s how I got my car and it was great, no interaction with the dealership at all. And you don’t have to be a AAA member! (I have heard that used cars are in short supply right now though.)
@Kyeh Wow, that’s brilliant. How much was their cut? Flat fee or a percent of the price?
@yeppers Hmmm. I just did a little research because I wasn’t sure - it was seven years ago.
I don’t remember a fee but Lending Tree says it’s $225. I also don’t remember having to be a member, but maybe that’s changed?
Evidently it’s not available in every state, but here’s how Lending Tree describes it. Costco has the same kind of service for members, I just found out.
https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/reviews/aaa-car-buying-review/
@Kyeh @yeppers Was going to mention the Costco program, as it is similar to the AAA one. Sam’s has their program as well.
I don’t know if cars count towards the cash back on their respective credit cards (Sam’s Plus Synchrony MC/Costco Executive Citi Visa). Or if paying your car payment on a credit card counts or can be done other than as a cash advance.
@Kyeh
I know chase bank does the same thing if your a member. I’ve been looking for a car since January and haven’t been able to find what I want bc used cars are so short in supply. I refuse to go to a dealership and deal with their shit unless I see something that is exactly what I want. Another thing I hate about dealerships are their markups are so ridiculous.
@Kyeh @yeppers I bought a new car recently through the Costco program. My experience was great. I had been looking/shopping for about 6 months before trying the Costco program, so I had a pretty good idea of a fair price for what I wanted. The Costco price was lower than any I had been offered (including the pre-Costco offer at the same dealer where I ultimately bought the same car that I had test driven earlier). No haggle, just got an email from the dealer with the car details and $ offer, come in, do paperwork, drive away my new car.
@Kyeh I think a lot of credit unions now offer car buying services so that might be an alternative if you don’t want to go the Costco route
@Kyeh @RiotDemon
My mom buys a new car every 5 years and she doesn’t put up with any of those sales people. She calls around from her living room couch to get the best deal she can. The last two cars have come from a couple of states away and she hasn’t been move pleased! They even deliver them right to her! You’d have to know exactly what you’re looking for and I don’t know if i’d do that with a used car. Jus sayen…
@Kyeh
in some states brokers are somewhat limited in what they can do. this is by state law, because the auto dealerships essentially bribed the state legislature (as they did in Texas)
brokers can still do much - exactly what they can do depends on the laws in each state. I think here they can find a car, and negotiate price if the buyer is present, or something. (have purchased all my recent cars from a repair place that is also a used auto dealership on a small scale, so i’m out of date)
i hear brokers are a way to seriously improve the whole experience and price, not to mention finding what you want. the thing to do is check what a broker can do for you in your state.
it might be possible to use an out of state broker. I don’t know the rules here.
@narfcake, do you know anything about this?
I hate car shopping for that reason, but I try to find ways to fuck with them. Last car purchase was a few days b4 my birthday several years ago.
Like you I walked in pre-approved and knew which car on the lot I wanted and what discounts they would have to hit or I would walk. I thought it would be easy but it was like a four or five hour shit show.
At one point I started asking for rediculious discounts/rebates, like a birthday discount or a because you hit on me and I had to listen to it discount. They got upset and I pointed out that when they respect me and my time I would do the same for them. They got the point.
Oh and good luck finding the right car with little hassle
@tinamarie1974
Nice… though it sux you had to go thru all that…
@chienfou nah, I try to make the best of all situations! Also, those situations make for great stories while having a beverage with friends!
@tinamarie1974
but they lied yet again! They didn’t respect your time at time, in fact the entire point of much of the process is to waste your time so that you give in and sign for something.
@tinamarie1974
@f00l Does that tactic work on people though? It just doesn’t work on me. Just makes me mad
One time when the sales guy was “talking to his manager” I got up to walk around and spied him in the shop goofing around with another sales guy. So I walked back to his office and wrote a note telling him I hope he had a good time playing in the garage with his friend. That he knew my limits and if he would like to make a deal he could reach me at xxx-xxx-xxxx after he finished playing. And then I left.
@f00l @tinamarie1974 So did he then call you in the end?
Some years ago I once walked out when the sales person was trying to sell me last year’s car at full sticker price (I had been in a 25 car pileup in a blizzard on a bridge and was totaled out and was only given a rental for 3 days so was in a hurry). I walked out.
He chased me out the door and told me I’d be sorry I didn’t buy from him. I told him I knew for sure what I could get this for as I had just gone with my dad when he bought one; it would be cheaper to fly back home, buy the car and drive back than pay his price (and in the end that is what I did, didn’t pay sales tax in the state I bought it in as it was out of state for me, tried more than once to pay it in the state I lived in and they refused to take it each time so I came out ahead that way too - although I held on to that money for over a year until I was sure they finally wouldn’t come after me over it).
He then told me to come back with my husband (got that shit at a repair shop where I was called - at 5’10"- a “little woman” and told to come back with my husband so he could tell me what was wrong with my car and what he fixed. Nope nope nope. Never used them again.). Umm no. I am the one buying a car, he didn’t even know if I was married or not blah blah blah. I also told him I knew they had a promotion for salesmen right now and even if I bought from that dealership it wouldn’t be from him. I kept walking.
@f00l @Kidsandliz I don’t think so, but I am not certain. The incident occurred either in 1999 or 2000 if I recall correctly. I do know I did not end up buying the vehicle from his dealership.
Last time we shopped for a car (2017? 2018?) we used Edmunds online. Several dealers contacted us, but it was painless to weed out those that weren’t giving what we wanted. YMMV
But back then there was no shortage of used cars
Car dealers were a shit show pre-2020. I can’t imagine how bad they are now because I’m sure they are somewhat hard up for business and I think used cars are not plentiful atm.
Don’t tell them you’re shopping for a monthly payment. Concentrate on the out the door price for the car. You know what you are pre-approved for. You may even give yourself some wiggle room in the budget if you’re looking at dealers in person because they are guaranteed to try to upsell you. If you use online searches (true car, edmunds, cars.com, auto tempest) and deal with the internet salesperson through email you may be able to get something in writing in email and then just go in to do the deal. That something in writing should specify the stock number and price of the car so they can’t try some bait and switch crap.
There are people who specialize in finding cars and setting deals, it may be well worth their fee to skip some of the hassle depending how specific your needs are. Tom McParland on Jalopnik is one of them, just one that I happen to remember his name.
When I went to buy my truck, I knew the dealer had one on the lot. They wanted too much for it, but I went in armed with a stack of printouts of comparable trucks from dealers between here and Dallas, and told them flat out I am here to offer you this price for this truck. You can sell me the truck for that price or I can get in the car and start heading to Dallas and buy the first one of these I see. It still took two plus hours of fucking around and me getting up with every intention of walking out before the salesman got the manager and did the deal. By the time I was done I hated those people with every fiber of my being, and that was after getting what I wanted.
I was just remembering, when I sold that truck was another glorious fuck the dealer moment. They lowballed the hell out of me on a trade offer, less than half what they could sell it for. I told them they were crazy and they said there were literally no comps for it because of how it was equipped (quad cab short bed one ton, single rear wheel, 6 speed manual) and that they wouldn’t offer any more because they didn’t want to be stuck with some oddball truck they couldn’t sell. They finally said if I could find a buyer they would do an in and out for free, but basically good luck trying to find someone to buy that thing.
That was Friday. I went home, took some photos, put it on Craigslist the next day and had a call within a couple of hours. The guy agreed to buy it for my asking price, saying he couldn’t believe I was selling it so cheap. I called the dealer and said hey we’ll be in to do the in and out Monday morning, get the papers ready. They asked what I was selling it for and I told them the same price I’d asked for in trade from them–about 60% more than they offered me. They were not pleased but honored their end of the bargain. I was happy and the guy that bought my truck was happy, so that’s all that mattered. Because they were stubborn they missed out on an extra 4-5k they would have made selling that truck at retail.
@djslack I’m not looking for a needle in a haystack, per se. I’m just looking for a specific color of a very common car in a specific trim. There was actually one a few hours away, but they wouldn’t hold it even with a deposit. I just couldn’t leave work to go check it out in time and they sold it the night before I was going to go. There’s two other ones in Florida, but they aren’t certified pre owned so they don’t come with as long of a warranty. I’m not sure if I want to get a different color or just wait and hope that I can find a CPO one in the color I want.
@djslack @RiotDemon
Can you find a different color model cheap enough to pay to have it repainted in the color you want?
@djslack @mike808 I’ve thought about that as well. I know me though, and I’d never get it painted unless it really needed it. If I get one of the more common colors I’ll just blend in. Probably better against road ragers.
@djslack I was going to mention Tom McParland. Besides his buying service, his Jalopnik columns are full of great info. And sometimes great horror stories.
https://jalopnik.com/author/tommcparland
Have you considered a Tesla? They have used models. The economics of EVs is pretty compelling as pricing has come down in the used market.
Electricity is so much cheaper than distilled dino juice. And no oil changes, no coolant flushes, etc.
You will need the ability to charge it, and an extension cord to the wall ain’t gonna cut it unless you only drive to church on Sundays. So be prepared to add a 30A or better, a 50A circuit to the garage.
Look at your driving patterns. It might surprise you that an EV can make a lot if sense.
Rent a car for long trips 250+ miles one way, though. “Fill ups”, even at a supercharger take an hour or more. But it is doable if you have the time.
And if an EV is not viable for you, then OK. Nothing ventured, nothing lost.
@mike808 out of my price range. I used to have a Prius, but it was totaled. As much as I liked it, when I had to replace the hybrid battery, it was super expensive. The ones that are available right now in my range are too old or have too many miles for me to be comfortable buying.
@mike808 I love my Model 3. Best car I ever owned. But they are spendy. In a few years, when EVs are mainstream, they will be in reach for everyone.
@ACraigL @mike808 The problem with those though is still longer trips. I am used to driving pretty much straight through only stopping briefly for gas. Can’t do the “briefly” part on longer trips. And until the country’s infrastructure is better there is a real problem about where to charge the thing in some areas.
@ACraigL @Kidsandliz @mike808 I went to a retirement/birthday party of a friend/former colleague a couple years ago. One of his old college buddies drove his Tesla all the way from Ohio to NW Oregon for the event. He said he recharged 19 times on the trip there.
@Kidsandliz @mike808 I haven’t had that problem so far. I can get a full charge in less than 40 minutes, but if you stop for lunch during, it’s pretty easy to manage through. Also, with 300 miles per charge, I can easily drive 3 hours without stopping.
@mike808 @RiotDemon If you might be interested in an electric or hybrid check the specifics on rebates. Some models qualify for $7500 federal tax and my state offered an additional $3000 when I bought mine. I also got a manufacture rebate which turned the car into a buy for me. Check all rules before signing if you do go this route.
I hate dealerships.
@RiotDemon @speediedelivery @ACraigL
Tesla doesn’t have dealerships, so there’s that. The price is what it is on the website.
Agree on the long trips, it is almost at the tipping point with charger stations everywhere I will do long trips.
However, the 1-hr charge time for stops is still a challenge. That’s just the reality of battery technology, and can be planned for. It’s just not the 15 minute pit stop for the hardcore cannonball runners.
I am going to get a 3 or an S with FSD before Tesla stops selling that feature to the public.
@ACraigL @mike808 @RiotDemon @speediedelivery My son just bought a used Tesla Model 3, low miles… He loves it…
Yup, typical dealership shenanigans…
I helped a friend buy a dealership car a couple years ago and it was the same 4 square sales paper they used the last time I went to a dealership 20 years ago, lol!
Told them what we’d pay at the start…it took five hours, but, we finally ended up at the same price we offered to start with.
I ended up legit calling the cops on them too as they pulled the “we can’t find your keys for your trade in we appraised” scam. I’m surprised they didn’t do that to you…it’s common.
After that I looked up the corporate executive customer service number and dialed them up. That’s when they got serious and finally agreed to the initial offer we made. It’d been 20 years since I went to a legit dealership…never again.
I have several friends and coworkers that have nothing but good things to say about Carmax. It no hassles, no bargaining…what you see is what you pay. Might be worth a shot if you have one nearby.
@PHRoG I actually started at CarMax and I’m still looking, but they don’t have what I want, yet.
I’ve actually never bought a car. The closest I came was 20 years ago. My dad found a truck for me at one of those small used car lots. We went to the lot together and he asked me if I liked it. Then he did the deal and we signed papers together so we both owned it. The cars I’ve owned since were both my parents cars that I drove after they passed at different times.
I wouldn’t even be looking if the current car was in better shape engine wise and had AC, but it’s finally time to retire it.
And it is 10x worse if you are not a white male.
@Cerridwyn Did you get shown the makeup mirror? I did buying my first car.
@Cerridwyn I agree. BWF (buying while female) is frustrating. The second time he asked what I wanted, I raised my voice, pretending to think he had hearing problems. He did, in a way.
@Cerridwyn @OldCatLady I was told once to come back with my husband so the salesman could talk to him to make sure I got what I wanted within the family’s price range. Yeah right.
Got that at a repair place too once (wanted to discuss with my husband what was wrong with the car). Last time I used that place.
@Kidsandliz @OldCatLady
told a salesman once who was telling a blatant lie about a car that just because I had ovaries didn’t make me stupid, and i said it loud and walked out
The last two cars I purchased (14 years apart) was a night and day experience.
In 2004, I knew EXACTLY the car I wanted down to the color and features. Made a deal with my local dealership and they put in an “order to find” to locate one with my specs. I guess I was too good a negotiator, because three months later they hadn’t yet found one (at my price).
I took matters into my own hands and found the car at another dealership about two hours away from my home. “We’ll match your quoted price” they said when I inquired about the vehicle. So I drive the two hours.
When I got there, they say, “I have no idea who you spoke with, or who ‘Michael’ is, but there is no way we can match that price.” WTF? I spend the next 3 hours haggling down the price of the car that I already was told they would match. Also, they told me no trade in value for my existing car. Double WTF.
After 3 hours of negotiating, I got it down to $600 above the original quoted price, with the original trade-in credit. I’m like, if you just charged me $600 more I would have been out of here in 45 minutes. They just shrugged. That couldn’t have been worth their time. The whole ordeal, including travel, was about 8 hours and one of the worst experiences of my life.
So, fuck you Lynnes Infiniti in Bloomfield, NJ. You guys suck and I hope your ass falls right off your back.
Next car, 2018. Tesla Model 3. Ordered online. Got a call my car was ready for pickup. I picked it up. I love that car more today than when I got it. Short story, much happiness.
I have no stomach for car dealer BS, but my dad was a demon. He would show up at the dealer at the crack of dawn, entire family in tow. Then argue, hem, and haw all day. Around closing time he would start talking about being back in the morning and magically a deal would appear. His favorite was to go on New Years Eve. Once they realized they would be hung over the next day, it was over.
I’m sure the scheme requires his ridiculous personality, ignoring anything you don’t agree with and never giving up any concessions you pick up throughout the day.
As a kid, it was excessively boring. And I intend to never set foot in a dealership again.
I’ve actually had three good dealership experiences, but none were the normal drill.
My '92 Toyota pickup was bought through the Sam’s Club deal. When I went to the dealership the guy told me the Sam’s Club setup was through fleet sales, so their commission was on volume, not sale price. Here’s the out the door price, take it or leave it. I took it.
SWMBO’s 2004 Toyota van was through Costco’s deal. It was the first model year of the bigger Sienna, and they were hard to find, and nobody was discounting. The Costco quote was through a dealer in Salt Lake City, 10-15 miles away, but I figured I’d try the local dealer as well (same place I bought the truck a decade earlier). They started at full list, and I pulled out the printout for Costco/the other dealer and told them if they could match that we had something to talk about. His eyes kind of bugged out, and he asked if that was for real. I told him it was, but feel free to make some calls. He came back and made the deal. There were the usual undercoating, etc. shenanigans to decline, but overall a pretty good experience.
The Camaro was probably the best experience. I knew exactly want I wanted, and found a barely used one at Henderson Lexus, just outside of Las Vegas. I actually found it on eBay, but didn’t buy it through eBay. I called up the dealer and they told me that over half their business was out of state, or even out of the country. They sent me a load of hires pictures, and we agreed on the price. They wanted a $1000 deposit to hold it, and they’d pick me up at the airport. If I decided I didn’t want it after seeing and driving it, they’d give me the deposit back, and all I’m out is the plane ticket & time.
Saw it, drove it, loved it, bought it.
The finance guy was great, he whipped through all of the usual add-ons repeatedly saying: “I have to offer you this stuff, but I know you want to get on the road, so initial there to decline”. We were through the whole thing in 5 minutes or so.
It was kind of funny seeing the Camaro on the marble floor of a Lexus palace, and all of the service techs were drooling over the Camaro. Apparently the first owner traded it in because the didn’t like a the manual transmission. I’m really glad he bought the wrong car and took the depreciation hit for me.
I was grinning & laughing the whole 7 hour drive home.
If you aren’t in the market for a new car shop at used car dealerships. I have had better luck with smaller dealers. They have more incentive to make a deal because they have few customers coming through. A dealers with a 30 car inventory will need to sell half that in a month to cover overhead and bring in a new selection. If they only have a one or two employees they can afford to make less on each sale as well. Don’t tell them you have a trade in until you have settled on the sale price of your new car. If they won’t give you a good price on your trade in sell it yourself.
@dyounghbic My experience is different. The old saying goes “Car dealers have 3 opportunities to screw you: the price of the new car, your trade in, and financing.” So it seems best to let them think they will have multiple opportunities to get the money they want.
I am ambiguous during negotiation and let them assume I’m trading a car in and financing through them, until I can nail down the best final sales price. Then I decide whether to do the trade in or dealer financing, depending on what they will do.
PS. Do your homework before you go. Get a good idea of the worth of the car you want and the one you are trading. They play with numbers to give you what you want. They might give your asking price but raise the price on theirs to give them the profit margin they want. Settle on your bottom line cost before you go to F&I to sign the deal. That’s where they pad the price.
Probably one of the weirdest dealership tales:
https://jalopnik.com/dealership-makes-woman-sitting-right-in-front-of-them-c-1826232532
@blaineg Johnny Five is ALIVE!!!
When you buy from a dealer watch the backend fees. You can ripped off there too (as I was). And you may be getting the female “discount” (see my story below). One way around the female discount is bring a mechanic type guy with you as that tends to remove some of that crap. As others said keep your bottom line to yourself, your monthly payment desires to yourself, that you have a trade in until after the price is settled AND you know the fees (see story below), Make sure they know as little as possible about your circumstances, any urgency, etc. (see my story below). These are all ways you can get ripped off and end up paying a higher price (they have all happened to me).
There are good reasons why car sales people are viewed as the most dishonest sales people out there (of course there are helpful, honest ones too). Buy at the very end of the month as many places have quotas for their sales people and so if they are desperate they will accept a lower commission on your car as the bonus more than makes up for that (although right now with the shortage of used cars right now you are going to pay more than you otherwise would have).
When I had to buy a used car on a time frame (I had been totaled out when a commercial truck backed over my hood) I had printed the price listed online. I had called them close to closing to say I’d buy it (I had had it checked out, etc. earlier) should I come now or tomorrow. When I got there the next day they told me a price 600ish higher. I told them that wasn’t the price. They brought it up on the website and told me I wasn’t “remembering right”. I showed them my printout from the day before. They came down on the price and then jacked up their paperwork fees to get their extra $600. I knew what those fees were as they are pretty standardized around here and earlier I had asked them what, approximately, the fees were. Because I couldn’t afford to walk and unfortunately they knew that (I hadn’t found anything decent in my price range and they knew that and the urgency). As a result I lost all remaining negotiating power.
I would have been better off walking, doing without a car for a while until they dropped the online price further (they had dropped it between when I first saw it and when I went in as they had had it for several months), sent someone else start the sales paperwork on my behalf, have them write up the bill of sale, have that person call me to find out why I was late and when would I get there, show up to a bill of sale they then couldn’t change. Only thought of that after the fact.
You may also experience the woman rip off too. When I had been in a 25 car pile up early January in a blizzard some years ago I went to dealers to buy a new minivan. At one place they told me to come back with my husband so they could talk with him to make sure I got what I wanted. WTF? I told them my money my car deal with me or no sale. So then they tried to sell me the previous year’s car (with the newer ones on the floor) at full sticker price. I turned around and walked. The guy chased me to the door telling me I wouldn’t get a better price anywhere else. I told him why I was leaving, I wasn’t going to be ripped off, was going to go to another state 500 miles away to buy one as I knew the price there and that price plus airfare would be less than he was charging. He was still sputtering at me as I got into the rental and drove away.
I had just gone with my dad when he bought a minivan so he could fit his new scooter in it. He was disabled and I was only there to keep him from falling in the snow. They treat the disabled even worse than women. I had to tell more than one place don’t talk with me my father is buying the car. One place gave him a good look down a short busty woman’s dress as she leaned forward for no apparent reason and everything gapped. Are you kidding me?
Anyway I flew home, went to that dealership, I was the last person the sales person needed to sell a car to that month (it was the end of the month) to make the bonus. I talked him down a bit lower than dad’s price was. They titled it in that state (weren’t supposed to do that but I didn’t know that), didn’t charge me sales tax because I was out of state, my state never charged me it either (I kept that money in the bank for ages since both states said I didn’t owe any despite me trying to pay it in one state or the other, and I was sure one of the two would eventually come after me - never did so saved even more money). I went back to Mr. Asshole in my state with my bill of sale and rubbed in that he had missed a sale and maybe the bonus.
Good luck. I HATE HATE HATE buying cars used or new.
Oh and get it checked out by a place you trust even if you buy from a used dealer. I found problems in several doing that that they hadn’t admitted to.
PS and don’t let them know you don’t need them to finance your car. They often give on the price thinking they will get it back on the financing. You can tell them you will be financing but save by whom until you have ALL parts of the deal price nailed down. This is a case where every shred of information they have about you they will try to use to their advantage.
@Kidsandliz the “woman tax” is the exact reason I went with my friend in my above story, lol. She’s an ex marine that worked in intelligence so def not someone you’re going to trick into anything. None-the-less they still treated her like she was ignorant.
That all stopped when I came along. We already knew the exact vehicle/options she wanted and I had researched the market value beforehand. We offered a reasonable price and told them firmly from the get go that’s all were going to pay and they still dragged it into a 5 hour game.
We prevailed on the exact price we initially offered…but, still, what a nightmare!
@PHRoG Yeah this is one reason why I hung on to the ghetto van (named by my teen) for 25 years and 3 mo. And actually up until the last year and a half or so it was cheaper to keep fixing it than pay car payments and the higher price of tags for a new car. Of course it probably would have won the ugliest van on the road award… I didn’t care but the teen was mortified. And then it was a perverse point of pride at that point just how long I had nursed along a grand caravan. I wanted to drive the thing with an antique car tag (no doubt a horror to all who owned a model T’s, etc.) LOL
And a teen learning to drive in it wasn’t as scary a thought. When she backed into a light post in an empty shopping mall parking lot the dent she made was no biggie as there were already “flaws”. I had a rusting roof I’d sand and spray paint with rustoleum every year, nicks I’d touch up, axe (likely axe anyway) damage to the side (a student damaged every car in the faculty parking lot finals week) that I “fixed” with water proof tub sealer that 7 years later the cut metal under it still hadn’t rusted), a couple of minor dents where people had rear ended me at low enough speeds (at the stop sign in our neighborhood) that it only made very minor dents, faked and peeling paint…
My problem is impulse buying. The last three times I bought a new car, I took a car in for repair and/or oil change and left having bought a new car. The last time-while waiting for the oil to be change on my wife’s car, I decided to take look at their new SUV which had just come out and had only been out for a month. Told the salesman would be ready to buy in about 10 months when my wife’s car was paid off, but could I take a test drive. During the test drive, he asked what would it take to get me to buy today. Started asking for all sorts of crazy things which I knew he couldn’t or wouldn’t agree to, but he said yes to everyone. How could I say no?
Then the craziest thing was that three days after I took the car home, I saw an ad saying that if you bought that car during the last 3 days of Oct, the manu. would give you a 2,500 rebate-called up my salesman and he said he would see what he could do. Called me back and said to come in and they would re-date all the docs so I could get the rebate. When I went back, I thanked him and he said don’t thank me-thank the general manager. Went in to thank him and asked him if the fact that I had bought my three previous cars from them had anything to do with what they did and he said it had everything to do with the re-dating the purchase.
The other interesting aspect is I always check to see what they are selling the car traded in for. I didn’t have time to take the car to Carmax before for a competitive bid as I didn’t expect to trade it in. The gave me 10k for the car plus 800 for the new tires on the car (one of the apple pie in the sky things I asked for and got as the tires were only 2 months old). They had always given me pretty good trade-in value for my cars in the past. Saw they were asking 16k for the car and it was already gone when I came into re-date the papers.
What’s the difference between a used car salesman and a computer salesman?
The used car salesman knows when he’s lying to you.
One thing today, with online reviews, they really don’t like getting negative ones.
On my last car, I had apologies and service credits after laying the BS down in black and white on a review site.
They did buy me lunch, LOL.
I have anxiety just reading this thread. We need to replace our van soon. This truly is hell to me. I despise car dealerships. Death of a billionty paper cuts!
@sillyheathen Don’t wait until it is an emergency to replace. Then you can walk away. Research prices, manufacture rebates both to the customer and to the dealers. Play your cards close to your chest so they don’t know your money side of things or time line unless you can wait until you find the right deal. Letting them know that, and you will buy now if they meet your requirements can help.
@Kidsandliz oh
. That’s why we’re starting to look. I think we have easily another 50-75k before she’s really pushing up daisies. We do routine maintenance etc. I’m guessing fall next year or the following summer. I’m just not looking forward to it. Granted I think one of our friends used to train the sales force for BMW so I maybe just pay him or make him a six course dinner if he’ll go and get all the ish sorted!
@sillyheathen If he’d agree you’d probably do better than any of the rest of us due to his training.
@sillyheathen If you’ve got some time, I would start looking now. First, set up a new gmail account you can use just for car buying. Use this account in all of the things you fill out on your initial visits to dealerships. Go to dealerships, ideally during a slow time (Friday mornings worked best for me). Tell them that you’re “doing research for a future purchase” (Not “Just looking”). Bring a notebook and a pen. Ask about specific models (not just a “Hedwig minivan” but a “Hedwig XQ or maybe XQT minivan”…but with the real model name and trim). Basically do your homework before you get to the dealership and let them know that.
Don’t even talk about pricing the first time you go in. Make notes in your notebook for yourself, what you liked what you didn’t…or just random notes. The idea is to gather information so that you can make an informed decision when you’re not being pressured by the sales people. If they insist on getting you “pricing” or want to talk about finance, tell them that you’re just doing research about different models. When they ask about what else you’re looking at, have a couple of other makes and models that you’re looking at. When they ask before you leave what else they can do for you, tell them they can leave you alone until you contact them.
Once you figure out exactly what you want, contact multiple dealerships (via email). Ask them for their best price, no financing, no trade-in…what is the price you would write on the check to drive the vehicle off the lot…on the specific make and model you want. Do not give them your phone number to talk to the sales guy. Do no go in to talk numbers. Tell them you are doing it all over email. Then either buy from the people who give you the best number or, ideally, take the best number you get to the dealership you want to deal with (who hopefully was the one who really did leave you alone when you asked them to) and tell them you really want to buy from them but XX dealership gave you a better deal. Could they meet YY price (YY being slightly lower than the best price another dealership gave you).
It’s not a lot of fun, takes time and requires you to do your homework, but that’s how I’ve bought my last couple of cars and have gotten what I believe (and what the internets agree) to be a good price.
@gt0163c
excellent.
I would add: plan to purchase by using a broker, a car buying service, or internet only.
can’t emphasize enough: communicate with them only by email.
@riotdemon
read up on the car buying process and on dealership tactics, in detail, repeatedly, until you recognize what they are doing instantly.
everything that happens in a f2f dealership visit is designed to confuse you, wear you down, conceal facts, re-direct you, manipulate you, etc. it’s all a planned and rehearsed process.
everything they say that isn’t on a contract is either a lie or a planned manipulation.
(ok, there are exceptions to the routine massive dishonesty. only, those are kinda rare.)
@f00l @gt0163c I have very much bought a car.
This was back in April that I posted this, lol.
@f00l @gt0163c @RiotDemon
Did you get what you wanted at a reasonable price without too much aggravation?
@f00l @Kyeh that answer is debatable. I did go to a no hassle dealer which was nice. I had to spend more than what I originally wanted to, but I got the car I wanted. I also flew to Texas for it which is a story I need to tell eventually.
@f00l @RiotDemon Wow - so a good result, but not an easy process! I’m glad you got the car you wanted.
We recently decided to replace the wife’s manual Fit with something a bit bigger and to get an automatic since I have had a couple of ortho injuries over the past few years that made a stick hart to drive (both our cars
arewere manuals).I am NOT a new car buyer, so we started looking for a used vehicle thru Cars.com (already mentioned above)
Put in a search for what we wanted in a 150-200 mile range and found a car in the group we were looking for 2 hours away.
We called to be sure the vehicle was on the lot, spoke with someone to arrange them to hold it til that evening. Drove over in 2 cars (one to trade in and one to drive back in if we had any issues). Got there close to closing time and made the deal in an hour. Spent the night in a hotel we Hotwired for <$100 so we could pick up the car the next day after they detailed it, put 4 new tires on it, did an oil change and multiple point inspection that they hadn’t done on it yet as it had just recently come in. The salesman said he told his boss we were buying the car so “why are we spending this $$ on it now”. He told us that is what they do to their cars before they get sold, period.
Bought a 2011 Rav4 (with <60k miles) for $10K minus the $2K they gave us for the 2008 Fit which was , true it’s name… giving us fits… Dealer let us put $3.5k on the Amex…whoohoo Delta FF miles… and took a check for the rest. Vehicle is in good shape cosmetically and mechanically so we are pretty happy (but it was tough going from 33 mpg to 24 mpg at first)
One of the last times we looked at a vehicle we picked out a PT Cruiser convertible in Florida. Car had been on the lot a for a while according to the CarFax so figured they wanted to turn it over. Made the drive and hammered out a deal then left it on the lot when they started to screw with us over the extra fees (docs, etc) I had told them I would drive it off the lot for $xxxx.xx total. Left it there over a $500 difference. We did have a nice vacation in St. Augustine though…
Bottom line:
TL:DR car buying sux!
When I was looking for a vehicle to replace my old truck, I first went to a Dodge dealership to look at the then-new Challengers. I have a 1971 Challenger (not currently running) and I was really considering a new one for a daily driver. I was dressed in work casual clothes. This was after the production cars were coming into the dealership so not just the limited edition first run.
Salesdrones would not let me sit in a car on the display floor or out in the lot. Kinda need to do that to check headroom/legroom thing because there are a lot of cars I can’t drive safely or comfortably. BUt apparently I didn’t meet there criteria (and I am a white male). I wrote to DaimlerChrysler to complain about the dealer, and never went back.
The next two dealer car purchases were a pleasure; both were at Carmax and both went quick and easy.
I did get to sit in and test drive a Challenger at Carmax a few years ago. It has enough headroom and is comfortable but visibility to the rear is not great. Worse than my '71 aside from better side view mirrors.
I have only had one experience with a local dealership, a GM dealership with my dad as an (at the time) GM employee. The thing was, he had been in a GM-internal program for some time that required you to purchase a new GM vehicle every two years, with a company discount. He’d figured the best way to minimize his cost was to drive these things prior to buying them (through another program), rack up a high number of miles, and then get the employee discount plus a discount for the high mileage. Then he’d resell these. I’m digressing.
Anyways, I was the beneficiary of the goodwill generated from an ongoing every-two-years purchase of a new SUV when I got my first and so far only new (used) car.
Dealers seem like thoroughly professional, friendly operations, in my experience. I don’t know what you guys are talking about.
@InnocuousFarmer With your dad’s job you would be treated differently than most of the rest of us. Sure there are occasionally good people in the profession but the odds of honesty and transparency isn’t all that high overall.
@Kidsandliz That was the joke
The following got really long winded…congrats to those who make it though, but you just saved yourself hundreds or thousands, so it will be time well spent.
I have about 15 years of work experience with car dealers, plus a number of cars purchased (not too many, I drive them into the ground, dig them up and drive them some more). My brother is one of those lawyers that likes to negotiate and buy cars…so some of my strategy comes from him and some from personally dealing with dealerships on a professional level. Much of these tactics are found in any google search…but here is my list.
I don’t buy new cars, so these apply to used mainly. New cars have a different set of strategies and more things to account for.
Don’t go to the Dealership with a friend, unless they are ok being there a long time, or with little kids…anything that is rushing you leads to poor judgement. Also don’t let the process once you have selected a car you are going to purchase be more than a couple hours on the very outside. It doesn’t cost them much to have you in a sales cubicle…it costs you a lot in opportunity cost etc. If you go with your significant other, make sure you are 100% on the same page regarding the strategy…and hold each other to it. You can use each other in a good cop/ bad cop way if you are both good at it, but that’s a tough one.
There are 2 parts the car buying process…the salesman and the finance managers. The salesman makes about 45K a year if he is doing fairly good. The finance managers makes 100k+ and know how to sell better than the salesman ever could (they started as salesmen). This is important later.
There are many standard tactics the Salesmen use, mostly to try and out wait you until you give up and pay $600 more than you wanted. Be prepared for them and know the counter and employ it immediately.
** Not being an impulse buyer is a good thing, but there is no reason it should take more than 30 minutes to get a go/no go on a single car once you sit down to discuss the car purchase. Letting them know upfront if you actually have a limited amount of time also helps, but then don’t be afraid to walk away.
** Emotional ploys such as “Your wife likes the car” or “There aren’t many like it” or “The price will be higher tomorrow” are all easy to flow with…“Of course she likes it, would I be considering purchasing it if she didn’t?”…“I know, it’s a unique package, that’s why I am considering purchasing it”…“If the price is too high today, then it sounds like it will be really out of my range tomorrow”. Like a job interview, prep an answer for each tactic where you both agree with them and remove the negotiation point immediately.
** Never give them your keys (do you give the greater at Walmart your keys when you go shopping?). They don’t need to evaluate your trade…see below. If for some reason they do, and they try the “hidden keys” trick then simply produce your other set and have them sign saying they will overnight your keys to you at their expense. They have hundreds of cars on their property, keys don’t go missing. If your car has been relocated, let them know that producing it more in 10 minutes will result in a call to the police to report it stolen, since they again know exactly where it is any can either walk you there or bring it to you. If this tactic is employed, the price of the car just went down $500 or more…
** If each discussion leads to the salesman leaving to check with his manager, follow him the second or third time, if you aren’t close to the deal you want, and let them know it would be so much easier to talk with him directly, since there appears to be a communication problem between them as it takes much longer for that answer than it should. I doubt there are many cases where the manager has to be involved AND has to actually ask someone else. Usually they are just discussing sports, how much they can “pound you” for (yes, real term for how badly they are screwing you) etc.
** If you know the car you want, and you communicate that with them, then the second car they show you that ISN’T the car you want is your opportunity to inform them that the only other car they mention will be the car you want or you are going to leave, since there is obviously a communication problem or they simply don’t have what you need. There doesn’t need to be an Ovary tax etc, you just have to be willing to walk out, and not shy about it. Don’t be mean (ok, maybe a bit) but would you take that from anyone else (if so, please see a counselor). If you don’t know the car you want, leave and figure it out. It’s amazing to me that people will spend months of their Salary on something they didn’t know they wanted 2 hours before.
** Know the car you are buying, and what they are worth. If you just have to have a certain color etc you lose a lot of negotiating power. Trim package is different…leather, gps etc are up to your discretion, but know what the value is of all potential differences. Ideally you know the price you want and understand the cost of Tax, and Title/Registration fees in your state. If you don’t, send me a message, I am an expert in exactly that.
** If you don’t care about an optional feature (premium wheels, speed rated tires, tinted windows, etc) then when pointed out to you, immediately dismiss it…“Yeah, I saw those…not really my favorite wheels but they are ok”. This removes the unwanted extras from being something that drives the value up in their eyes when they are comparing that car to another they may have or another dealer may have.
** Dealers talk to each other, and many of them are under the same umbrella group…it’s good to know if they are competition or sister stores, as using the price quote of another dealer can backfire or work in your favor depending.
** Never trade your car in, unless you do so after ALL other negotiating is done. I always tell them we are keeping the car for a teenage driver or my mother or to carpool in etc. The trade only affects how much you pay in tax on the car you are buying, you are dealing with master car buying negotiators, why give them both transactions? If you do, by setting the price (see next bullet) first, you remove any doubt as to how much they are actually giving for the car.
** Bad credit is your enemy and leaves you with few options. If you have a bad credit score, the car you are buying should reflect it (how did you get a bad credit score if you always make sound financial decisions?). When you get to subprime lenders, the rates are ridiculous.
** Only negotiate the “Out the door” price, including Tax, Title and Dealer Fees. Never ever ever discuss monthly payment. You should know your budget, and it isn’t hard to calculate the monthly payment yourself…plus they are rarely math whizzes and have no liability to a verbally stated amount. Often they use the monthly payment as a starting point, but extend the term…sure pads their pockets nicely if you get stuck on that number. Have this price set before you get to the Finance Manager.
** Never offer to pay cash to the salesman even if you have it in $100 bills on you. Don’t tell them you plan to either before you get to the Finance Managers office. That “Out the Door” price was probably reached because they thought they were getting a kickback. Dealers don’t like cash deals, they get a kickback from the lender they want you to use. Even if you plan to pay cash, or immediately pay the car off, don’t offer it.
** Come in with a pre-approval and the rate for a car in the range you are looking for from a Credit Union. They generally offer the best rates. You don’t have to use that Credit Union, but this prevents them from selling you to their lender at a higher rate than you deserve.
** Do be sure if you plan to pay the car off immediately (don’t be afraid to accept their financing, sometimes they actually will give you a cut in the end price if you do, the Finance Manager really wants you to use the lender) that you make sure there are no hidden fees etc with doing do. You can be honest with them at this point, since the financing is not a negotiation point for them anymore.
** Most items the Finance Manager is selling you are negotiable, especially the Extended Warranty. You can also buy one at any point, from any seller, if you want it. I shoot their offer down immediately by questioning if I should have to buy a warranty on such a great car…maybe it’s not the right car? There are few items they will be selling you that you actually might want, and all of them are overpriced. Think of it like buying food at the Ballpark or Airport…same food you could have bought 2 hours ago, or can buy 2 hours later, so why pay their prices unless the experience of the Ball Park beer is worth something?
** Gap insurance…if you have to buy Gap Insurance because they car you are buying will be worth thousands less than you pay for it immediately after driving off the lot, then clearly you are paying too much. If they offer gap insurance, offer to reduce the “Out the Door” price until the insurance is no longer needed.
** Dealer fees are a complete and utter racket, and they come in various names (Dealer Prep Fees, Doc Fees, etc). Yes, the dealer has to pay a Title Clerk to do the paperwork. That person likely makes $15-$20 an hour and does a dozen deals a day…so the $699 doc fee and $349 prep fee should be labeled “sucker fees”. You will have to pay them (on the Buyers Order) as most states have laws in place that they have to be uniform in charging them…that’s fine, they will just lower the selling price of the car then, what do you care, you negotiated on “Out the Door” remember?
@tightwad VERY GOOD advice. I wish I had known the out the door price/issue when I bought my last used car. I drive them into the ground (unless they get totaled out - never had an at fault accident though) so I don’t buy cars often.
@tightwad thank you very much. This is a lot to consider. I appreciate the long reply.
@tightwad wow, that’s a bunch of great info. One thing I picked up from Ed Bolian that might be worth adding on financing through the dealer’s lender… If you were willing to pay cash but they are giving you a large concession on price to go with that lender because they get a kickback from it, there’s a way to navigate that so that everyone (except maybe the lending bank) is happy. Seems like it makes sense. There may even be a way to navigate this with your own loan from a credit union- for sure you could if it’s a signature loan, not sure if it’s an auto loan because that might get tricky. I’ll let him explain:
@djslack I didn’t say that as well as I could have, but I covered it. For sure be willing to take an additional incentive for financing through their lender but only if the rate is better than yours. Paying a slightly higher rate for what would likely be under $100 cash incentive isn’t fiscally sound unless you plan to pay the car off immediately.
Fwiw, my experience at CarMax was amazing. Super easy, super respectful, I got what I was looking for in my budget. Highly recommended.
@ElRage The two times I went to Carmax my dealers was able to beat their price for my trade-in without me even telling them I even had a competing offer for my car.
@Felton10 carmax is for sure about exchanging some money for less hassle and less friction. You can certainly get more or pay less, but you’re trading that for playing the dealer game or having a relationship with a dealer where you don’t have to play the game. For the average joe or jane off the street, it may be a good value proposition.
Some of us like to spend hours (or days or weeks) getting the best deal, maybe through research, maybe through negotiating, maybe both. I personally have the research brain but not the negotiating personality. Some other people have a best friend or brother in law at a dealership, or have bought new cars from the same dealer every few years like clockwork so they are known to the dealer and treated well. Some people don’t know anyone and want to just go buy a car and be done with it, and for those people Carmax can be very good. They won’t get the most money for their trade, they won’t pay the least money for their car, but they will be out enjoying a ride on a beautiful day far sooner than the one that’s in the finance office at the traditional dealer negotiating to get screwed the least. And there’s value in that too.
@djslack I know when I start the process, the chances are I am going to end of walking out with a car-even the last time when I thought there was no way I was going to buy a car that just came out as I would get the worst possible deal-but being able to buy it through costco at under invoice and getting a $ 700 costco cash card, getting an extra $ 800 in trade in for the tires I had just put on the car I was trading in, getting an extra $ 500 rebate because I didn’t want to pay extra for the premium paint on the car and only paying $ 100 for dealer prep rather than their usual $ 499-everything I asked for convinced me to make the deal. They even let me shop for my own financing after the rate they gave me seemed high to me. I got it lower at my own bank. And what type of dealer was this-Cadillac.
I’ve tried everything over the years including going into a dealership looking at car I was sure I would never buy, knew very little about and quite frankly didn’t want-that is how I ended up with my 1989 Hyundai Sonata-arguably the worst car I ever owned beside the Cadillac Catera.
@Felton10 Probably a good thing you are a man. If you had been a woman, you would have spent 40 years being pregnant.
@djslack @Felton10
I would say that Hyundai (parent of Kia) completely transformed their entire product line in the mid-2000s. They are light years apart in quality and value compared to today’s models or even last decade’s models (like mine).
So don’t count them out. The current Sonata is priced at an excellent value for the money. Mine has lasted 10 years now (1st year of replatform, which was risky at the time, I know) and it is still holding up pretty good. Hyundai even replaced the engine at 100K under warranty. So my experience was quite different than yours from the 90s, just like you are quite different than you were 20+ years ago. Technology has changed a lot since then, so it’s not really fair to hold that against them.
Look at the timing of new platform launches and your appetite for new vs tested. Also, be aware that once a new platform launches or an entire line/brand ends, your car’s major parts are EOL (End Of Life) and could be orphaned going forward. Like trying to get parts for a Saturn or a Scion or a Honda S2000 or an Oldsmobile.
@djslack @Felton10
Speaking of the Cadillac Catera, did you know that it inspired the character of the same name as a joke on ER (after Clooney, I think) because GM/Cadillac was a major sponsor at the time.
@djslack @mike808 Actually bought my wife a 2012 Sonata and at that time had a 2008 Cadillac CTS (best car I’ve ever owned) so at that time could say that I owned 2 cars that were make by the co’s of the two worst cars I had ever owned.
The Sonata I bought was its first year that model was made and I was never so glad to get rid of a car in my life as I was afraid Hyundai was going to go out of business and then the car would be worth nothing. First car I ever bought where it broke down as I was driving it off the deals lot (A/C died).
Didn’t know that about the Catera. And that car was a joke. Was rushed out to compete with the Lexus.
@Felton10 wasn’t the Catera the Chevy Cavalier with a Cadillac badge?
@djslack no-that was the Cimmeron you are thinking of. The Catera was a rebadged Opel from Germany. Great underpinnings but changes for American market made it very unreliable.
@djslack @Felton10
My bad. The show was Chicago Hope. Dr. Catera was played by Stacy Edwards.
“Paging Dr. Lisa Catera”. Get it? LOL.
It was an “inside” joke with the writers and then after a few episodes of hospital pages, they created the new character with the name.
@Felton10 yep, you are correct. I was thinking of the Cimarron. I do remember the Catera being “the Caddy that zigs”, no idea how that stuck with me.
My mom had a Cavalier at the time and a lady at church got a new Cimarron and we parked next to her. My dad was annoyed at me for asking (probably a bit too loudly) why that car just like mom’s car said it was a Cadillac.
One of the worst cars I ever owned was another GM rebadge of an Opel. The Saturn Astra. Looked good and was built like a Mercedes (if they used 80% more plastic), but it was hell to work on and kept going in the shop for electrical problems under warranty, which gave me plenty of chances to survey a lot of the GM lineup through loaner rentals. On the third alternator the service manager told me they wouldn’t be fixing it again so I took it next door directly out of the shop, traded it while it was still running for a Hyundai Veloster, and never looked back.
@ElRage Carmax is great, but their price doesn’t include their add on fees and is going to be higher than what you might be able to negotiate through a standard dealer. Might not be too, so for many it’s a good way to know you didn’t get screwed royally, just kinda
@djslack
I bought the stuffed red duck that was the car’s mascot and kept the stuffed duck for 10 years and stuck it in the back of my 2008 CTS so it could have a good home. Everyone who sat in the back seat asked me what it was doing back there.
Even GM knew how bad the Catera was. Told you that most of the time the Carmax and dealers price was fairly close. Well wanted to trade it in on a Pontiac Bonneville and the dealership would only give me 8k for the Catera while Carmax was offering 10,500. My salesperson at the Pontiac dealer told me to sell it to Carmax which I did.
One time had the Catera in for service and they thought they fixed it, but as they were driving it out from the lot for me take home, the problem re-occurred. Told myself if one more thing went wrong, that was it for the car-was getting rid of it. It did and I did.
Was very disappointed in the car as it was my first “luxury” car and paid over 30k for it. Had never even paid over 20k for any of my previous cars.
My car buying experience is mostly good, likely because I simply refuse to go to any dealership where salespeople are on commission. The last time I dealt with a salesman on commission was over 40 years ago, and it ended with me walking out after telling him, calmly and in my “inside voice”, exactly how he could use that written contract to bugger himself.
Since then, new vehicles have been bought directly from the manufacturer with me paying the shipping to my location, or from a dealership with the sales staff on salary rather than commission. A couple of used vehicles were acquired from small, local used car lots with good reputations. If they didn’t have what I wanted, they knew where to find something, and were pretty up-front about costs. I don’t do trade-ins, as I have found selling the old vehicle locally works out better. If I wanted to do a trade-in, I would not mention it until I had a solid contract on a new vehicle, then bring it up after. Same with financing.
I bought a new vehicle two years ago from a local dealer by researching what I wanted online, then calling the dealer about a specific vehicle. They did the paperwork and delivered it (paperwork and vehicle) to my house the same day. It just doesn’t get easier than that. I have yet to actually set foot on the dealership lot. I should really swing by there after the lockdown ends just to say HI! and see what the place looks like.
Probably about 20 years ago was driving to Atlanta and an ad came on the radio for a new Camry $15k right as we were about to pass that exit. Sounded to good to be true, we had literally been talking about getting a new car moments earlier.
Made the snap decision to pull over and get it.
Walked in, asked the salesperson which car was $15k advertised on radio. She showed us it but Sticker price was $20k something, she said ignore price we could get it down to what was advertised on radio. we test drove it and said “ok we’ll take it”.
Sat down. She tried to sell it us for the 20k. We said no, we said up front we wanted the 15k one that was advertised on the radio. She said she couldn’t authorize that and had to get someone else. This really cocky salesman approached and right from the start acted like an asshole raising his voice at us for not paying the $20k and insisting on the $15k. I said fine we’ll go elsewhere if you’re not willing to back your ads and left. He was a real nasty piece of work.
Walking out the door this other salesperson came chasing after me calling “don’t go, I can get you that price”. He sold it us for the $15k. Why the heck did they make it that difficult and make is go through that game? And how does getting someone to yell at customers help sales?
Would never set foot in that dealership again even after 20 years.
2 years later we sold the car used for the same price we bought it new. So is a happy ending.
I’ve had good luck using Consumer Reports for their review information. In many years, the only lemon I’ve ever gotten was the one time I thought I knew better. If you aren’t a subscriber, your local library probably has the magazines. While they do a few cars every month, their April issue is devoted to cars. They cover both new and used.
@romellex Yes I have used those reports too. Worth reading.
@romellex
CR gave the VW Rabbit glowing praise back in the mid '70s, as I recall. The reality was much grimmer. Recall after recall, all the way into the '80s, and then buy-back programs for the ones that no field fix was going to save. I was in that system at the time; the cars were fun to drive, but OMFG were there problems with them.
be aware that if a person/people are in a dealership cube, often the sales cube is bugged (desk phone or other tech), so that when the salesperson is out of the room, the salesperson/mgr might be listening to any discussions between the buyer party, or listening to the buyer end of any buyer phone conversation.
also, dealerships HATE HATE HATE bad reviews.
they also HATE if you call the US corp HQ of the car manufacturer (such as Ford or Toyota) and complain.
some buyers get a cheap voice recorder or use their phone to record the entire in-dealership experience and conversations.
Please tell me it’s not April again! I don’t want to do this year over.
@blaineg lol!
That is one thing I like about Saturn. No Bull, No Bate & Switch, Just this is the price, with no haggling. I even got a 5 years loan with 0%.
Back in the 1950s, if memory serves, Ford rolled out its high-pressure new car sales system to its dealers. The other manufacturers followed suit swiftly. The behaviors that the OP posted are pretty much straight out of the text for a system house operation, and the abusive environment they create is bad for both the customer and the sales staff. Not all dealerships use that set of misguiding principles now, but far too many continue the horrible tradition today. In the unlikely event that I ever shop for another new car, the first thing I will tell the salesman who walks up is “If you or anyone else asks me what it’s going to take to put me in some specific vehicle today, I’m leaving, and won’t be back. No one will get a second warning or a second chance.”
Anyone here bought a car via Costco’s program?
@romellex See above:
https://meh.com/forum/topics/buying-a-car-how-the-hell#60843a665dd9e30011bba597
@Kyeh Thank you! I missed it before. And really good to know.
@romellex Yeah, I went through AAA, but this sounds very good too.
@romellex About three years ago, bought a Cadillac under the year end program they had. Got the car for a set price which turned out to be a couple hundred dollars over dealer invoice plus I got a 700 costco gift card being an executive member. Since the car (xt4) had only been in the dealership for one month asked for a lot of other things not thinking they would give them to me, but they must have really wanted to sell those cars because they gave me everything I asked for.
Many years ago, the company for which I worked had a car-purchase deal - “$175 over dealer cost”. No negotiating. It was only around for a few years, but I was able to get one car via it. I did a lot of checking to verify it, and it really was the best deal in town.