I hate when companies us AI because they can’t do a simple photoshop. Come on Meh, a 5 minute shoop-da-woop is better than using some garbage AI that takes jobs from artists. You’re better than this.
@joelmw@TimW it’s kind-of appropriate that asshole and ´smells’ in the username go together. i would keep checking this site and SideDeal for the toilet bidet attachments,
@HankB33 Try reading from the end to the beginning. Little trick I learned to better catch missing words and misspellings when proofing my own work. ^_^
@PooltoyWolf the surfboard trademark is just rhe start… Motorola went through a crazy shifting of ownership and breaking up of the company into sections, selling off various things, and yet the different parts often still all say they’re Motorola, but they’re different owners. The cellphone manufacturer is especially confusing because they’re completely unrelated to anything else motorola now, they’re owned by a Chinese company but their entire team is located in the US and apparently run the show pretty independently of the owners, at the threat of said owner losing all said US employees (who know how to make phones, which is kind of the point of owning a cellphone manufacturing company).
@pmarin
I do like it, but it does also look like something Ye’s GF/Fiancée/Wife/Whatever she is currently would [kind of] wear, albeit clearly in lieu of actually being either actually naked or actually covered- which TBH does seem to be her ‘trademark’.
@hchavers Out of curiosity, how large is your house, and how are the intervening walls? We are upgrading our router and I’m trying to gauge expectations. Our current decade and change old Linksys WRT1200 just can’t quite reach the far rooms. Average size single family single floor house, maybe 2,500 square feet?
@hchavers@PooltoyWolf my house is about 2000 sq ft, and I used to have a single WiFi router that barely reached the farthest room from the router. I now have a 2-node WiFi 5 mesh system that does much better in reaching that room. So I would think 2 nodes would work for you. I have no idea if these are any good, though.
@PooltoyWolf this is a cheap enough price point to try. Having said that it looks like reviews hate the mobile app, which appears to be the only way to access these, which is becoming more and more normal for these type of products. Arris is not known for their wifi, they are mostly known for making Cable Modems. I work in telco and run the networks for a small rural ISP with ~4k subscribers.
in the description on meh : the app works works with iOS and Android <14. There is an app update being published within the next 2-3 weeks that will re-enable support for Android 14+
@hchavers@ohhwell We are upgrading the router to a TP-Link Archer AX55 (WiFi 6) and it’s located pretty much centrally (office) next to the cable modem. I’m thinking of mounting the new router high on the wall instead of on a desk.
@PooltoyWolf my router is close to the center of the house. It reaches into the rear garage and out to the mailbox on front, and from one side to the other. But I think it’s the 5Ghz and WiFi 6 that extends the range. An older 2.4Ghz A/G router struggled to reach the garage.
@hchavers As I understand it, the faster/newer the band, the less range. I.e. B has slower speeds but greater coverage than G, then N, and A has the fastest speeds but the smallest coverage.
@gnafuthemeh yeah for this price I’m tempted to see if I can hack the firmware to get openwrt on it… Theeeennn I remember I have a million other things to do… But idk maybe I’ll buy them and wait for someone else to lol
@gnafuthemeh 15 years ago I’d have agreed - but routers have gotten way better for basic use. So unless you need a DMZ (and lots have them now - I know mine does) or some other hack I no longer consider it a must.
@troy I have no intent to cast aspersions on Meh but rather Arris for producing a product and not updating their management S/W for an OS released in October 2023.
Over a year old and there is no update yet? I’d bet lunch that they’re going to slip the date.
And from their web site FAQ
The mAX Router does not have a Web Manager to set up and configure the router.
If I bought this, it would be a paper weight until they publish the update. (I have no intention to buy this.)
@troy no, I meant the promised software update in 1-2 weeks (which is of course not shipped actually but downloaded). I was thinking of something expected that is just lost in limbo for a few weeks.
@pmarin Ah! Whoosh. Yeah, it’s possible it gets further delayed as is typical with software promises, but I’m hoping not! Just passing on what we were told directly (but please don’t shoot the messenger!)
@HankB33 if I’ve learned anything from all my years in IT, it’s to never, ever buy something based on a promise of support or features coming Real Soon Now.
Then again I am currently unemployed, so you could argue I have in fact learned nothing.
@blandoon@HankB33 Here’s best wishes for employment! I’ve a son-in-law who was caught up in Dell downsizing after about 25 years of employment and achieving chief architect level. After a really tough 14 months, he was just hired for an excellent remote position. Hang in there, keep reaching out!
My stepson doesn’t get a good signal in his bedroom & there is just no easy why to get a ethernet cable to his room. He was getting 5 megabit speeds when he could be getting 900 Mb plus with a cable. I get 500 plus wifi right now in the kitchen on the Netgear Nighthawk network.
So I blew $150 on a mesh system with three of these things, set them up strategically as best I could. He is now getting 30 megabit speeds. Right now I only get a bit over 100 on the mesh. Disappointing. I highly doubt these Surfboard things would be any different.
I truly wish I could get a cable up to his room but I just can’t figure a way to go three levels up from where the main router is. Right now he is not complaining, likely because 30 Mb is so much better than 5 Mb.
Based on what? Did your mesh system have comparable specs including a dedicated backhaul channel?
Anyhow, if you have two power outlets on the same leg in your breaker box in both locations you want to extend from and to, powerline network extenders are pretty solid.
@Joedetroit there are so many factors to say “this wouldn’t work”. If you are determined, surely you can get a cable up there. on my buddies brick 3 story house, 20 years ago we drilled out between mortar and ran a cable up the 3 stories on the outside and back in the same way to get a hardline to his dad’s PC.
@ohhwell “I highly doubt” “Based on what?” Based on the layout of this 3 level condo we live in. The router/cable modem is in the bottom level, the room is all the way up. No I it doesn’t look like my mesh system has a dedicated backhaul channel, but it can still be done but I would have to buy another router unit. I guess it would not be “dedicated”. This Arris thing actually comes with two routers, that’s actually kina cool. Not sure if I should buy it though.
We tried the powerline trick with limited success. It actually worked even though it was not on the same circuit. Meaning it worked, but it was slow.
@Joedetroit Is this from the basement to the second floor? If so and the basement and attic are unfinished, it should be possible. Tough, but possible. It would be helpful if you had some long fish tools. But I would recommend connecting that cable to an access point, as that will provide faster service than these will. (An access point is wireless and uses the hardwired connection to go directly to the internet though the router.) Of course, if you can get one wire that far, you can get two, one for the access point and one for something like a TV.
@lickkite I dunno man, I’ve been noodling on this for a few years now. I mean my old condo I ran CAT5 everywhere. But I had a crawl space access. Many years ago I lived in an old house in Detroit & again, I not only ran cable everywhere, I ran new electric with dedicated breakers, all through the cold air return. & yeah to get it all the way upstairs I did run it up the outside of the house.
At the place I am now, none of those solutions are feasible. I could get one down to the utility room through a cold air return but I still have to somehow get over a bathroom, then down the wall to the room with the gateway.
A pro might be able to do it but a hack like me… I would just piss off my wife. She doesn’t actually want to give her 20 something son better Internet. She wants him offline & outside, working/going to school & to stop gaming.
@Joedetroit I hear ya and sounds like you have tried multiple things. Sounds like the best way is just to get a better mesh system, but it doesn’t sound like the desire is actually there. Powerline is hit and miss, my brother was good with one for an area of his house with ~30 mbsp until he got my dad’s hand me down. But I have seen them plenty of times crap out a customer’s location.
We have ran outdoor rated Cat5e through HVAC vents not just the return without issue.
If there is a will there is away, just doesn’t sound like there is an absolute will.
At my telco we do phone, internet and TV, we have multiple ways both hardline and wifi to do all services. Most reliable is obviously hardline and we have done some crazy cabling to do it in some places.
@gwrankin And my Android TV device uses Android 9 - what’s your point, exactly?
Android releases for the last 5 years have been little more than new avenues for Google to crawl up your ass “to keep you safe” and jam ad and tracker revenue into everything possible. I have no issues with older releases.
Can I set this up on a T-Mobile 5G Home Internet Hotspot? The signal is clear in one apartment but we’d like to get it stronger into the second apartment.
@user47204079 That would depend on the hardware they provided, but in general: If it has an ethernet (LAN) port on it, you can connect that to the ethernet WAN port on this (or any) router.
The biggest other considerations in this case are if you’re doing voice over IP communication, trying to do online gaming, or are looking for any sort of remote access into your home network. You’re already at a disadvantage as a result of using cellular internet, and adding a router will complicate those things even further. If all you care about is checking email/streaming video/whatever, this should be fine.
@Aspirant_Fool@user47204079 I use Verizon 5G Home Internet for my wifi. You mentioned online gaming having an issue. Why is that? I frequently use a Meta Quest 3 and would like to improve wifi coverage in my home.
Every device connected to a network has an IP address that identifies that specific device. When you buy internet service, your ‘home’ gets assigned one public IP address by your service provider. Your router’s primary function (other than creating your local WiFi network) is to assign a private IP address to each of your devices, and then to perform ‘Network Address Translation’ (NAT) so that all those devices can share that one public IP.
With a cellular provider (also satellite, and many DSL providers) you don’t get a public IP at all. Your ‘public’ IP is actually a private IP on the cellular provider’s network. That puts you behind ‘double NAT’, because your provider has a ‘router’ on their network doing NAT to get traffic back to your home, and the ‘modem’ (or whatever your carrier calls the equipment they provide) is functioning as a router and doing NAT for the devices connected to it. Adding another router like this without relatively advanced knowledge of proper configuration puts you behind a third layer of NAT. Each of those layers introduces potential issues for services where direct communication between ‘peers’ is required, common examples being participants in a VoIP call, or players joining online games.
Many routers have a ‘bridge’ or ‘passthrough’ mode that can be used in a situation where the carrier-supplied router cannot be replaced, which can eliminate one of those NAT layers, but also usually results in the loss of any more advanced features offered by the router. Even if that mode is used, on a cellular connection you’re still going to be behind a double NAT, and you’re still going to have problems with any game where data is transferred directly between players.
So, if you aren’t having a great experience playing games, your WiFi might not be to blame. For a quick and easy test, stand in the same room as your router, no more than 10-15 feet away. If things don’t get better, it’s safe to assume they won’t get better with a new router/range extender/whatever.
@ajv16@joelmw Me too. I’ve been looking at the Netgear Orbi AX5200, which seems to have the same sort of specs as this one, but at four times the cost. My concern is that I have had great experiences with Netgear, and every time I switched to a different company I’ve had major headaches, often with the setup.
@joelmw@Springbank This. I will just never understand the point of getting a worse product for less, just because it is less. Waste of both time and money to get a lower quality product instead of just going for the more reputable brand from the start.
I can’t speak to this unit specifically, but if you want a mesh system, tri-band should be considered a requirement. Without the dedicated band for backhaul, everything connected wirelessly suffers a big performance hit.
The main thing that people usually do wrong with these systems that guarantees you won’t be happy with performance is satellite placement; If you’ve got crappy signal in one room at the far corner of your house, the satellite does not go in that room. The satellite has to have a strong signal to the main unit, so it goes as close to that ‘dead zone’ as possible while still having strong signal. There are tons of variables that affect signal propagation, so there’s no silver bullet for coverage, but as a (very) general rule your satellite(s) shouldn’t be more than 30 feet or so from your primary router.
@danpritts Whether or not daisy chaining satellites is possible depends on the system, and my assumption for a system like this would be that it’s not, though I can’t confirm.
Even if it is technically possible, it should be avoided, as splitting the airtime for the backhaul channel will have a significant negative impact on throughput for devices connected to every satellite that’s part of the chain, even the one with the link back to the main router.
…from their blurb on Amazon:
"The SURFboard mAX Mesh Difference: As you move around your house or you launch that streaming service - the mesh network will adjust to optimize your experience. Bursting with premium components & technology - we invested in Tri-band (2.4GHz/5GHz/5GHz High) design and Wi-Fi mesh algorithms that ensure your devices and your network are always operating at peak peformance. Significantly reduce buffering, delays on your devices and high ping rate for gamers. Our unique approach to maintain a 1Gbps connection within your system enables you enjoy true gigabit speeds throughout your home.
Tri-Band System Creates 3 Express Lanes: One band for connecting the routers, one for connecting slower 2.4 GHz devices & one for faster 5 GHz devices. We dedicate an express link to maintain your 1 Gbps connection between your routers (nodes). The result: true gigabit speeds throughout your home. Each router has eight Wi-Fi 6 streams, delivering speeds for: audio & video conferencing, HD & 4K video streaming, Alexa Connectivity, online gaming simultaneously at speeds up to 7,800 Mbps & up to 6,000 sq ft of coverage!
@PhysAssist Not really, that’s just describing tri-band systems in general. Without getting overly technical, WiFi works by dividing airtime between devices, and only one device gets to ‘talk’ at a time on a given band. by having a third radio dedicated for router<>satellite communication, you can effectively eliminate the delay that would otherwise get introduced with a basic WiFi extender or dual band mesh system. Once you start splitting that backhaul band, you lose most of the benefit of having it in the first place.
The part about streams is the most relevant, but its impact is generally overstated in marketing. In an environment like a typical house, and especially with self-contained little devices like these where all the antennas are really close together, you’ll probably see some range benefit from multiple streams, but you probably won’t see much per-device throughput benefit, as everything is still probably close enough to everything else that space-division multiplexing alone can’t ensure a robust, low-interference connection. This gets into territory where it’s truly impossible to give even an accurate qualitative answer without deploying the hardware and surveying the site. So while it’s technically possible that you might get sufficient isolation between streams that the ‘middle’ satellite can communicate with the ‘outer’ satellite and the main router simultaneously, in practice it’s much safer to assume that won’t be the case, and instead satellite<>satellite communication will interfere with and delay satellite<>router communication.
If your house is so large that one router and one satellite ~30 feet away can’t provide acceptable coverage for the whole area, you can probably afford a few hundred bucks to have someone pull a few ethernet cables around so that you can stand up wired access points instead of relying on wireless backhaul, and that’s going to be the best move regardless.
We have our current router and modem running about 10 feet from the outside wall of our house and have a metal-walled pole barn somewhere between 35’-40’ away, with a window facing said wall.
My question is whether this MESH system would enable us to access our Wi-Fi from inside the barn?
Currently, we can only get a barely adequate connection to our cellular service either by standing directly next to the window or standing just inside the [open] metal roll-up door. […and no Wi-Fi signal at all >about 10’ from the front of the house.]
I have been considering getting a line-of-sight WiFi extender-set, like this: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/point-to-point-wi-fi-bridging-between-buildings-the-cheap-and-easy-way/ or since our barn has its breaker panel fed from the house service by an above-ground conduit- I also considered running a cable through the conduit to the barn, but I’m not sure if running the network cable in there with the electrical would result in any problems.
Any suggestions from those who know more than my [clearly meager] knowledge base? [or at least think or can pretend they do]?
@PhysAssist This kit is very unlikely to be helpful to you in this scenario, but might work reasonably well if you can place the main router in the window facing the barn, and the satellite in the barn window. Best option by far is to run network to the barn and stand up a separate access point. Ethernet should not be run through the conduit with the power, but fiber would be fine. Equipment for both ends of the fiber connection is a little more expensive, and is generally more complex to configure/maintain/repair. If I was in your shoes, I’d just get some direct-burial ethernet cable and spend an hour or two running it from the house to the barn. Doesn’t have to be deep, you can easily get it 4" or so down by just sticking a shovel straight into the ground, wiggling it a little to open a crack, and packing the cable in as you go.
The window is in the barn wall, and there are none in the house wall facing it, which is why I was skeptical at best, and started thinking of hardwiring or using something like those TP-link bridging units.
I will definitely look into optical or direct-bury ethernet cable.
On re-reading my post because yours caused me consternation, I see that I may have been unclear.
The modem and router are inside the house at a location that is about 10 feet away from the exterior wall nearest the barn, where we’d like to have internet access.
…and no, I’m not Amish, Mennonite, or other Luddite religious fringe.
Rather, I’m a lapsed Evangelical Luthern, Missouri Synod.
Went to Amazon to look at the reviews. When I sorted by new all the recent reviews are poor. The app doesn’t work, doesn’t work with newer versions of phone operations systems, older units in new boxes and the old fashioned poor customer support.
Not trying to dokie on the product, I just know I’m not smart enough to troubleshoot this if I run into problems.
Best of luck to all who buy it and show those Moe-Moes on Amazon up
@prmtt977 Yup - that’s why we discussed with Arris support who confirmed they “are releasing an app update in 1-2 weeks” – we are stating 2-3 weeks.
As most know, the schedule for technical releases is rarely on track. All we can do is hope!
@prmtt977@troy As of today, the Bluetooth connectivity to setup/configure the routers did not work on my Android 14 phone, but I was able to (eventually) get it to work on my older Android phone. [After that, I can “manage” the network on my Android 14 phone.]
So I was going to buy & try this but the fact that the app won’t work with my phone gives me pause. They say they promise to update the app in a few weeks. Hmmmm… if they don’t, would Meh refund my money?
“Purchases that arrive damaged, defective, or DOA may be replaced or refunded at our discretion provided you notify us within 21 calendar days of item receipt. Use our support form to obtain an RMA number for damaged, defective, or DOA items. Items returned without an RMA number will NOT be refunded or replaced.”
@Joedetroit The last time I dealt with Terms and Conditions like that was with a DSL modem - and the cost / fees for shipping (both ways) exceeded the cost of the $80 router in the first place. (this is after the company shipped me a brick to start with - it was DOA)
I live in a 3300 sq ft, two story brick home. Our current WIFI is barely OK. Because of our layout I’ve been told that I should buy a tri-band three node system. At this price I’m considering buying two sets of these. Could I set this up using four nodes? I can see a way that I could place them so that they are spread with about these distances, Node 1 -> Node 2=30 ft, Node 2 -> Nodes 4 & 3=(about 45 ft. Is that reasonable doable? Thanks.
In my box, one of the two units was clearly older than the other. It had a lot of “marks” on the outside plastic (discolorations that looked sort of like grease spots) and it required two firmware updates, while the “good” unit didn’t have any marks and didn’t require any firmware updates.
I had to get an old android phone out to use the app to configure the devices (“Surfboard Central” by “VANTIVA USA LLC”) which was NOT the app name listed in the box directions, but was the app name and icon listed on the online PDF file. (Search for W130, not W30…the entire unit of two is “W130” while the single units have “W30” marked on them).
[My android 14 phone was never able to make a bluetooth connection to the device…but the android 12 device did it (still had some problems, it would lose connection every time the phone screen turned off, so I had to tap my phone screen to keep the app turned on…and it took about 3 tries to get each of the two devices configured correctly with dropped connections or other random error messages.] I eventually did get both units configured.
After that, the app appears to work fine on my Android 14 phone to “manage” the network, so I think the Android 14 problem is just with the bluetooth needed for initial configuration.
Management is simplistic, but they do have the ability to dedicate (“reserve”) specific IP addresses for specific devices, and do port forwarding to specific devices, which is kind of the minimum network management I want.
Wifi Speeds are faster than my last (5 year old) router, which isn’t a surprise, but I would have been disappointed if they had dropped.
Each router has 4 Ethernet ports, but one of those needs to be used to provide internet from your cable modem or DSL modem, so you really have 3 ports available at the main router, and 4 ports on the satellite unit.
Specs
Product: ARRIS SURFboard MAX W130 AX7800 Tri-Band Mesh Wi-Fi 6 System
Model: W130
Condition: New
What’s Included?
Price Comparison
$139.99 at Amazon
Warranty
1 Year Warranty
Estimated Delivery
Friday, Feb 21 - Monday, Feb 24
A surfboard that can’t get wet?
@yakkoTDI
It CAN get wet, but don’t expect it to work thereafter…
SURFboard??
Gnarly Dude!! 
/giphy surfing
I hate when companies us AI because they can’t do a simple photoshop. Come on Meh, a 5 minute shoop-da-woop is better than using some garbage AI that takes jobs from artists. You’re better than this.
@mikesmells (I’m fairly certain they’re doing it in jest…even their usual Photoshop silly pictures are usually low-effort)
@mikesmells @PooltoyWolf Low effort? From a Mediocre company? I am shocked!!
@mikesmells lol you must be new here.
@mikesmells TaKeS jObS fRoM aRtIsTs!
@mikesmells I spent way too long looking for the downvote button…
@TimW eat me asshole.
@TimW
As much as the op might be missing some context, you managed to slide in and be a certified ass. You must be proud.
@joelmw @TimW it’s kind-of appropriate that asshole and ´smells’ in the username go together. i would keep checking this site and SideDeal for the toilet bidet attachments,
@mikesmells
“I hate when companies us AI because they can’t do a simple photoshop.”
“use AI”
FIFY…
I sure know how to use this, I will buy it and definitely use it.
I don’t know about the routers, but the copywriter’s dropping words and letters every-fucking where.
I like the first one and kinda hoped it was the only one, because “so you might have a hard getting a signal up there” sounds kinky.
Is it “up or the job” sounds like someone might have blown it.
So I suppose those work together.
“You definitely know about this than our copywriter does, that’s for sure” is just confusing. I probably do?
@joelmw
Maybe it is a veiled reference to signal drops which would indicate you need to mesh router…
@joelmw Oof, this is embarrassing. Not sure where my head was at when proofing this one, but thanks for the notes. Fixed.
@dseanadams @joelmw I liked the @chienfou idea that it was intentional for spotty wifi in the house.
@dseanadams It happens to us all. I actually kinda liked the original version, but can appreciate the desire to correct it.
@dseanadams @joelmw I don’t know if you proofread your own work or have someone else do it.
I can’t proofread my stuff because I see what I wanted to write, not what I actually wrote.
@HankB33 Try reading from the end to the beginning. Little trick I learned to better catch missing words and misspellings when proofing my own work. ^_^
@dseanadams @HankB33 Yeah, I do that a lot too.
I thought SURFboard was a Motorola trademark? Did they sell it?
@PooltoyWolf yeah, Arris bought Motorola’s cable modem and set top box business over a decade ago
@PooltoyWolf I though Arris was part of Motorola or maybe spun off from them.
@datajosh TIL why the name suddenly stopped appearing a while ago.
@PooltoyWolf the surfboard trademark is just rhe start… Motorola went through a crazy shifting of ownership and breaking up of the company into sections, selling off various things, and yet the different parts often still all say they’re Motorola, but they’re different owners. The cellphone manufacturer is especially confusing because they’re completely unrelated to anything else motorola now, they’re owned by a Chinese company but their entire team is located in the US and apparently run the show pretty independently of the owners, at the threat of said owner losing all said US employees (who know how to make phones, which is kind of the point of owning a cellphone manufacturing company).
/showme polyester network
/showme sweaty polyester network
/showme sweater polyester network
@mediocrebot bet someone (not me) could wear this at a Paris or Milan fashion show and get good reviews.
@pmarin
I do like it, but it does also look like something Ye’s GF/Fiancée/Wife/Whatever she is currently would [kind of] wear, albeit clearly in lieu of actually being either actually naked or actually covered- which TBH does seem to be her ‘trademark’.
@pakopako thank you for the new Zoom background.
OFFICIAL Theme Song for this item:
My dual band WiFi 6 router is enough for this household. Though, that is a really good price for 2.
@hchavers Out of curiosity, how large is your house, and how are the intervening walls? We are upgrading our router and I’m trying to gauge expectations. Our current decade and change old Linksys WRT1200 just can’t quite reach the far rooms. Average size single family single floor house, maybe 2,500 square feet?
@hchavers @PooltoyWolf my house is about 2000 sq ft, and I used to have a single WiFi router that barely reached the farthest room from the router. I now have a 2-node WiFi 5 mesh system that does much better in reaching that room. So I would think 2 nodes would work for you. I have no idea if these are any good, though.
@hchavers @PooltoyWolf I would go with a decent mesh system to be safe. Especially if your modem is on one side of the house.
This particular one seems pretty darn decent for the price especially if it really has a dedicated backhaul band.
@PooltoyWolf this is a cheap enough price point to try. Having said that it looks like reviews hate the mobile app, which appears to be the only way to access these, which is becoming more and more normal for these type of products. Arris is not known for their wifi, they are mostly known for making Cable Modems. I work in telco and run the networks for a small rural ISP with ~4k subscribers.
in the description on meh : the app works works with iOS and Android <14. There is an app update being published within the next 2-3 weeks that will re-enable support for Android 14+
@hchavers @ohhwell We are upgrading the router to a TP-Link Archer AX55 (WiFi 6) and it’s located pretty much centrally (office) next to the cable modem. I’m thinking of mounting the new router high on the wall instead of on a desk.
@hchavers @PooltoyWolf well hopefully it does the trick. If it doesn’t, try the to-link deco x-55.
@PooltoyWolf my router is close to the center of the house. It reaches into the rear garage and out to the mailbox on front, and from one side to the other. But I think it’s the 5Ghz and WiFi 6 that extends the range. An older 2.4Ghz A/G router struggled to reach the garage.
@hchavers As I understand it, the faster/newer the band, the less range. I.e. B has slower speeds but greater coverage than G, then N, and A has the fastest speeds but the smallest coverage.
When it comes to routers: no OpenWrt support, no deal.
@gnafuthemeh yeah for this price I’m tempted to see if I can hack the firmware to get openwrt on it… Theeeennn I remember I have a million other things to do… But idk maybe I’ll buy them and wait for someone else to lol
@gnafuthemeh Unless you just want to use something like this as a mesh WAP.
@ohhwell I still don’t trust long-term support or reliability without an open-source OS.
@gnafuthemeh 15 years ago I’d have agreed - but routers have gotten way better for basic use. So unless you need a DMZ (and lots have them now - I know mine does) or some other hack I no longer consider it a must.
Yeah. Pull my finger.
@HankB33 Support told us 1-2 weeks. We added an extra week for good measure.
@HankB33 @troy Is it being shipped by Pitney-Bowes? (ouch; old wounds)
@troy I have no intent to cast aspersions on Meh but rather Arris for producing a product and not updating their management S/W for an OS released in October 2023.
Over a year old and there is no update yet? I’d bet lunch that they’re going to slip the date.
And from their web site FAQ
If I bought this, it would be a paper weight until they publish the update. (I have no intention to buy this.)
@pmarin Nope! These are being shipped FedEx Smartpost
@troy no, I meant the promised software update in 1-2 weeks (which is of course not shipped actually but downloaded). I was thinking of something expected that is just lost in limbo for a few weeks.
@pmarin Ah! Whoosh. Yeah, it’s possible it gets further delayed as is typical with software promises, but I’m hoping not! Just passing on what we were told directly (but please don’t shoot the messenger!)
@HankB33 if I’ve learned anything from all my years in IT, it’s to never, ever buy something based on a promise of support or features coming Real Soon Now.
Then again I am currently unemployed, so you could argue I have in fact learned nothing.
@blandoon @HankB33 Here’s best wishes for employment! I’ve a son-in-law who was caught up in Dell downsizing after about 25 years of employment and achieving chief architect level. After a really tough 14 months, he was just hired for an excellent remote position. Hang in there, keep reaching out!
My stepson doesn’t get a good signal in his bedroom & there is just no easy why to get a ethernet cable to his room. He was getting 5 megabit speeds when he could be getting 900 Mb plus with a cable. I get 500 plus wifi right now in the kitchen on the Netgear Nighthawk network.
So I blew $150 on a mesh system with three of these things, set them up strategically as best I could. He is now getting 30 megabit speeds. Right now I only get a bit over 100 on the mesh. Disappointing. I highly doubt these Surfboard things would be any different.
I truly wish I could get a cable up to his room but I just can’t figure a way to go three levels up from where the main router is. Right now he is not complaining, likely because 30 Mb is so much better than 5 Mb.
@Joedetroit “I highly doubt”
Based on what? Did your mesh system have comparable specs including a dedicated backhaul channel?
Anyhow, if you have two power outlets on the same leg in your breaker box in both locations you want to extend from and to, powerline network extenders are pretty solid.
@Joedetroit there are so many factors to say “this wouldn’t work”. If you are determined, surely you can get a cable up there. on my buddies brick 3 story house, 20 years ago we drilled out between mortar and ran a cable up the 3 stories on the outside and back in the same way to get a hardline to his dad’s PC.
@Joedetroit @lickkite
I came here to say this in the only context in which I would ever use it:
“Drill baby, drill!”
@ohhwell “I highly doubt” “Based on what?” Based on the layout of this 3 level condo we live in. The router/cable modem is in the bottom level, the room is all the way up. No I it doesn’t look like my mesh system has a dedicated backhaul channel, but it can still be done but I would have to buy another router unit. I guess it would not be “dedicated”. This Arris thing actually comes with two routers, that’s actually kina cool. Not sure if I should buy it though.
We tried the powerline trick with limited success. It actually worked even though it was not on the same circuit. Meaning it worked, but it was slow.
The one I bought a few months ago.
@Joedetroit Is this from the basement to the second floor? If so and the basement and attic are unfinished, it should be possible. Tough, but possible. It would be helpful if you had some long fish tools. But I would recommend connecting that cable to an access point, as that will provide faster service than these will. (An access point is wireless and uses the hardwired connection to go directly to the internet though the router.) Of course, if you can get one wire that far, you can get two, one for the access point and one for something like a TV.
@Joedetroit moca adapters that use your coax are pretty solid.
@lickkite I dunno man, I’ve been noodling on this for a few years now. I mean my old condo I ran CAT5 everywhere. But I had a crawl space access. Many years ago I lived in an old house in Detroit & again, I not only ran cable everywhere, I ran new electric with dedicated breakers, all through the cold air return. & yeah to get it all the way upstairs I did run it up the outside of the house.
At the place I am now, none of those solutions are feasible. I could get one down to the utility room through a cold air return but I still have to somehow get over a bathroom, then down the wall to the room with the gateway.
A pro might be able to do it but a hack like me… I would just piss off my wife. She doesn’t actually want to give her 20 something son better Internet. She wants him offline & outside, working/going to school & to stop gaming.
@Joedetroit I hear ya and sounds like you have tried multiple things. Sounds like the best way is just to get a better mesh system, but it doesn’t sound like the desire is actually there. Powerline is hit and miss, my brother was good with one for an area of his house with ~30 mbsp until he got my dad’s hand me down. But I have seen them plenty of times crap out a customer’s location.
We have ran outdoor rated Cat5e through HVAC vents not just the return without issue.
If there is a will there is away, just doesn’t sound like there is an absolute will.
At my telco we do phone, internet and TV, we have multiple ways both hardline and wifi to do all services. Most reliable is obviously hardline and we have done some crazy cabling to do it in some places.
Android 14 is like 16 months old. No wonder the price of this crap plummeted.
Put more original slim jims up.
@gwrankin And my Android TV device uses Android 9 - what’s your point, exactly?
Android releases for the last 5 years have been little more than new avenues for Google to crawl up your ass “to keep you safe” and jam ad and tracker revenue into everything possible. I have no issues with older releases.
How many devices does the network support?
Can I set this up on a T-Mobile 5G Home Internet Hotspot? The signal is clear in one apartment but we’d like to get it stronger into the second apartment.
@user47204079 That would depend on the hardware they provided, but in general: If it has an ethernet (LAN) port on it, you can connect that to the ethernet WAN port on this (or any) router.
The biggest other considerations in this case are if you’re doing voice over IP communication, trying to do online gaming, or are looking for any sort of remote access into your home network. You’re already at a disadvantage as a result of using cellular internet, and adding a router will complicate those things even further. If all you care about is checking email/streaming video/whatever, this should be fine.
@Aspirant_Fool @user47204079 I use Verizon 5G Home Internet for my wifi. You mentioned online gaming having an issue. Why is that? I frequently use a Meta Quest 3 and would like to improve wifi coverage in my home.
@Stumpy91 @user47204079 That’s kind of a huge and complex topic, but very briefly:
Every device connected to a network has an IP address that identifies that specific device. When you buy internet service, your ‘home’ gets assigned one public IP address by your service provider. Your router’s primary function (other than creating your local WiFi network) is to assign a private IP address to each of your devices, and then to perform ‘Network Address Translation’ (NAT) so that all those devices can share that one public IP.
With a cellular provider (also satellite, and many DSL providers) you don’t get a public IP at all. Your ‘public’ IP is actually a private IP on the cellular provider’s network. That puts you behind ‘double NAT’, because your provider has a ‘router’ on their network doing NAT to get traffic back to your home, and the ‘modem’ (or whatever your carrier calls the equipment they provide) is functioning as a router and doing NAT for the devices connected to it. Adding another router like this without relatively advanced knowledge of proper configuration puts you behind a third layer of NAT. Each of those layers introduces potential issues for services where direct communication between ‘peers’ is required, common examples being participants in a VoIP call, or players joining online games.
Many routers have a ‘bridge’ or ‘passthrough’ mode that can be used in a situation where the carrier-supplied router cannot be replaced, which can eliminate one of those NAT layers, but also usually results in the loss of any more advanced features offered by the router. Even if that mode is used, on a cellular connection you’re still going to be behind a double NAT, and you’re still going to have problems with any game where data is transferred directly between players.
So, if you aren’t having a great experience playing games, your WiFi might not be to blame. For a quick and easy test, stand in the same room as your router, no more than 10-15 feet away. If things don’t get better, it’s safe to assume they won’t get better with a new router/range extender/whatever.
With such terrible reviews on Amazon, who can say no to something like this?
@ajv16 Even the bad reviews acknowledge that the hardware is solid. Seems like it’s just some shitty software, but the system works anyway.
At this price point, I’m tempted.
@ajv16 @joelmw Me too. I’ve been looking at the Netgear Orbi AX5200, which seems to have the same sort of specs as this one, but at four times the cost. My concern is that I have had great experiences with Netgear, and every time I switched to a different company I’ve had major headaches, often with the setup.
@joelmw @Springbank This. I will just never understand the point of getting a worse product for less, just because it is less. Waste of both time and money to get a lower quality product instead of just going for the more reputable brand from the start.
@ajv16 @joelmw I bit the bullet and bought the Netgear. I guess 14 years use from the last one was a pretty good run.
I can’t speak to this unit specifically, but if you want a mesh system, tri-band should be considered a requirement. Without the dedicated band for backhaul, everything connected wirelessly suffers a big performance hit.
The main thing that people usually do wrong with these systems that guarantees you won’t be happy with performance is satellite placement; If you’ve got crappy signal in one room at the far corner of your house, the satellite does not go in that room. The satellite has to have a strong signal to the main unit, so it goes as close to that ‘dead zone’ as possible while still having strong signal. There are tons of variables that affect signal propagation, so there’s no silver bullet for coverage, but as a (very) general rule your satellite(s) shouldn’t be more than 30 feet or so from your primary router.
@Aspirant_Fool or perhaps from another satellite, no?
@danpritts Whether or not daisy chaining satellites is possible depends on the system, and my assumption for a system like this would be that it’s not, though I can’t confirm.
Even if it is technically possible, it should be avoided, as splitting the airtime for the backhaul channel will have a significant negative impact on throughput for devices connected to every satellite that’s part of the chain, even the one with the link back to the main router.
@Aspirant_Fool
Does this mitigate your comments at all?
…from their blurb on Amazon:
"The SURFboard mAX Mesh Difference: As you move around your house or you launch that streaming service - the mesh network will adjust to optimize your experience. Bursting with premium components & technology - we invested in Tri-band (2.4GHz/5GHz/5GHz High) design and Wi-Fi mesh algorithms that ensure your devices and your network are always operating at peak peformance. Significantly reduce buffering, delays on your devices and high ping rate for gamers. Our unique approach to maintain a 1Gbps connection within your system enables you enjoy true gigabit speeds throughout your home.
Tri-Band System Creates 3 Express Lanes: One band for connecting the routers, one for connecting slower 2.4 GHz devices & one for faster 5 GHz devices. We dedicate an express link to maintain your 1 Gbps connection between your routers (nodes). The result: true gigabit speeds throughout your home. Each router has eight Wi-Fi 6 streams, delivering speeds for: audio & video conferencing, HD & 4K video streaming, Alexa Connectivity, online gaming simultaneously at speeds up to 7,800 Mbps & up to 6,000 sq ft of coverage!
@PhysAssist Not really, that’s just describing tri-band systems in general. Without getting overly technical, WiFi works by dividing airtime between devices, and only one device gets to ‘talk’ at a time on a given band. by having a third radio dedicated for router<>satellite communication, you can effectively eliminate the delay that would otherwise get introduced with a basic WiFi extender or dual band mesh system. Once you start splitting that backhaul band, you lose most of the benefit of having it in the first place.
The part about streams is the most relevant, but its impact is generally overstated in marketing. In an environment like a typical house, and especially with self-contained little devices like these where all the antennas are really close together, you’ll probably see some range benefit from multiple streams, but you probably won’t see much per-device throughput benefit, as everything is still probably close enough to everything else that space-division multiplexing alone can’t ensure a robust, low-interference connection. This gets into territory where it’s truly impossible to give even an accurate qualitative answer without deploying the hardware and surveying the site. So while it’s technically possible that you might get sufficient isolation between streams that the ‘middle’ satellite can communicate with the ‘outer’ satellite and the main router simultaneously, in practice it’s much safer to assume that won’t be the case, and instead satellite<>satellite communication will interfere with and delay satellite<>router communication.
If your house is so large that one router and one satellite ~30 feet away can’t provide acceptable coverage for the whole area, you can probably afford a few hundred bucks to have someone pull a few ethernet cables around so that you can stand up wired access points instead of relying on wireless backhaul, and that’s going to be the best move regardless.
@Aspirant_Fool
Thanks for this explanation also!
BTW- isn’t “overstated in marketing” kind of the definition of marketing in general?
We have our current router and modem running about 10 feet from the outside wall of our house and have a metal-walled pole barn somewhere between 35’-40’ away, with a window facing said wall.
My question is whether this MESH system would enable us to access our Wi-Fi from inside the barn?
Currently, we can only get a barely adequate connection to our cellular service either by standing directly next to the window or standing just inside the [open] metal roll-up door. […and no Wi-Fi signal at all >about 10’ from the front of the house.]
I have been considering getting a line-of-sight WiFi extender-set, like this:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/point-to-point-wi-fi-bridging-between-buildings-the-cheap-and-easy-way/ or since our barn has its breaker panel fed from the house service by an above-ground conduit- I also considered running a cable through the conduit to the barn, but I’m not sure if running the network cable in there with the electrical would result in any problems.
Any suggestions from those who know more than my [clearly meager] knowledge base? [or at least think or can pretend they do]?
@PhysAssist This kit is very unlikely to be helpful to you in this scenario, but might work reasonably well if you can place the main router in the window facing the barn, and the satellite in the barn window. Best option by far is to run network to the barn and stand up a separate access point. Ethernet should not be run through the conduit with the power, but fiber would be fine. Equipment for both ends of the fiber connection is a little more expensive, and is generally more complex to configure/maintain/repair. If I was in your shoes, I’d just get some direct-burial ethernet cable and spend an hour or two running it from the house to the barn. Doesn’t have to be deep, you can easily get it 4" or so down by just sticking a shovel straight into the ground, wiggling it a little to open a crack, and packing the cable in as you go.
@Aspirant_Fool
Thank you for the kind response!
The window is in the barn wall, and there are none in the house wall facing it, which is why I was skeptical at best, and started thinking of hardwiring or using something like those TP-link bridging units.
I will definitely look into optical or direct-bury ethernet cable.
Thanks again!
@PhysAssist Are you Amish? Because this set-up is pretty much what every Amish with a telephone has…
@Pufferfishy
On re-reading my post because yours caused me consternation, I see that I may have been unclear.
The modem and router are inside the house at a location that is about 10 feet away from the exterior wall nearest the barn, where we’d like to have internet access.
…and no, I’m not Amish, Mennonite, or other Luddite religious fringe.
Rather, I’m a lapsed Evangelical Luthern, Missouri Synod.
AKA- the 1st church of reformed Catholics.
Went to Amazon to look at the reviews. When I sorted by new all the recent reviews are poor. The app doesn’t work, doesn’t work with newer versions of phone operations systems, older units in new boxes and the old fashioned poor customer support.
Not trying to dokie on the product, I just know I’m not smart enough to troubleshoot this if I run into problems.
Best of luck to all who buy it and show those Moe-Moes on Amazon up
@prmtt977 Yup - that’s why we discussed with Arris support who confirmed they “are releasing an app update in 1-2 weeks” – we are stating 2-3 weeks.
As most know, the schedule for technical releases is rarely on track. All we can do is hope!
@prmtt977 @troy As of today, the Bluetooth connectivity to setup/configure the routers did not work on my Android 14 phone, but I was able to (eventually) get it to work on my older Android phone. [After that, I can “manage” the network on my Android 14 phone.]
So I was going to buy & try this but the fact that the app won’t work with my phone gives me pause. They say they promise to update the app in a few weeks. Hmmmm… if they don’t, would Meh refund my money?
“Purchases that arrive damaged, defective, or DOA may be replaced or refunded at our discretion provided you notify us within 21 calendar days of item receipt. Use our support form to obtain an RMA number for damaged, defective, or DOA items. Items returned without an RMA number will NOT be refunded or replaced.”
No app would be defective as heck, wouldn’t it?
@Joedetroit The last time I dealt with Terms and Conditions like that was with a DSL modem - and the cost / fees for shipping (both ways) exceeded the cost of the $80 router in the first place. (this is after the company shipped me a brick to start with - it was DOA)
I junked it.
YMMV
@Pufferfishy Thanks. Likely not a good idea for me this time. They will likely offer it again!
I live in a 3300 sq ft, two story brick home. Our current WIFI is barely OK. Because of our layout I’ve been told that I should buy a tri-band three node system. At this price I’m considering buying two sets of these. Could I set this up using four nodes? I can see a way that I could place them so that they are spread with about these distances, Node 1 -> Node 2=30 ft, Node 2 -> Nodes 4 & 3=(about 45 ft. Is that reasonable doable? Thanks.
@lomerson2 I believe the max is three nodes with this system.
In my box, one of the two units was clearly older than the other. It had a lot of “marks” on the outside plastic (discolorations that looked sort of like grease spots) and it required two firmware updates, while the “good” unit didn’t have any marks and didn’t require any firmware updates.
I had to get an old android phone out to use the app to configure the devices (“Surfboard Central” by “VANTIVA USA LLC”) which was NOT the app name listed in the box directions, but was the app name and icon listed on the online PDF file. (Search for W130, not W30…the entire unit of two is “W130” while the single units have “W30” marked on them).
[My android 14 phone was never able to make a bluetooth connection to the device…but the android 12 device did it (still had some problems, it would lose connection every time the phone screen turned off, so I had to tap my phone screen to keep the app turned on…and it took about 3 tries to get each of the two devices configured correctly with dropped connections or other random error messages.] I eventually did get both units configured.
After that, the app appears to work fine on my Android 14 phone to “manage” the network, so I think the Android 14 problem is just with the bluetooth needed for initial configuration.
Management is simplistic, but they do have the ability to dedicate (“reserve”) specific IP addresses for specific devices, and do port forwarding to specific devices, which is kind of the minimum network management I want.
Wifi Speeds are faster than my last (5 year old) router, which isn’t a surprise, but I would have been disappointed if they had dropped.
Each router has 4 Ethernet ports, but one of those needs to be used to provide internet from your cable modem or DSL modem, so you really have 3 ports available at the main router, and 4 ports on the satellite unit.