Anyone else think HR 1865 is frightening?
8Maybe it’s just because I live in a cave, but I haven’t seen too many people talking about this. It has a name that sounds like a good thing (Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act of 2017), but I don’t see it actually doing what the name implies.
What I do see it doing is holding creators of tools that have wide-reaching positive uses liable when someone misuses them. Seems like a dangerous road to start down.
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Craigslist thinks so too.
https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA
@Cythwulf Makes sense. The precedent it sets is what I really don’t like.
@Cythwulf damn. I used to read those when I was bored.
@Cythwulf @Seeds Reddit also shut down a number of their “adult” communities.
@Cythwulf @RiotDemon
Riiiiiight
@therealjrn craigslist is the absolute last place I’d look for someone.
@RiotDemon
Really? You can’t think of even ONE worse place?
@PlacidPenguin I don’t know. I don’t know dating sites. I’ve been with the same person for a while.
@PlacidPenguin @RiotDemon How about the dumpster behind a strip club?
@PlacidPenguin @RiotDemon @Seeds
@PlacidPenguin @Seeds I meant more like online places. Didn’t really think of IRL connections. I’ll skip the dumpster.
@Seeds You speak from experience?
@gregormehndel I’ve never been to a real strip club. The whole thing is just unappealing to me. Now the dumpster behind Trader Joe’s- that’s more my scene.
Never heard of this. I pretty much live in a cave also.
@RiotDemon When life hands you
lemonsa cave, makelemonadecheese.@gregormehndel
/image cave cheese
I heard about Craig’s List discontinuing the ads, so I went to my local list to check and immediately felt a sense of loss when they were gone, although I never read them.
A “friend” told me about Backpage though…are they still up?
@therealjrn
Prob not for long.
Here’s a view from the Electronic Frontier Foundation:
How Congress Censored the Internet
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/how-congress-censored-internet
@aetris That link should be shared everywhere.
This is a form of censorship without a doubt, but the various websites already self censor anyway. YouTube has announced they will change their policy on any content about gun sales, gun accessories, and gun instructionals. I have had videos taken down that I took myself, but that had music playing that I don’t own. Google, Facebook, Twitter, and so on, frequently block certain content or search results. These are all censorship, and in the case of what news, politics, and opinions that get featured or blocked, the censorship can be pretty insidious.
The problem here is that it is government censorship, and any form of that is a slippery slope. One of the last things we need is more laws and regulations (unless Congress wants to pass laws to reign in its own avarice.) On the other hand, if these internet companies want to avoid regulation, perhaps they should do a better job of self-policing. I never use Craigslist, because around here, it’s just a way of attracting victims that are carrying enough cash to buy something. I know that’s not the intent, but it’s the result of the wild west attitude that “it’s not our responsibility to monitor our users.” How is it that eBay is not that bad?
I really worry about the shitstorm that’s coming over the supposed inability to recognize that foreign government sponsored bots were attempting to influence the election. Whether it was successful or not isn’t the issue, it’s really about the free rein the (Russians, or whoever we’re blaming next) had to try to do it. If a company wants to have a respectable site, they need to verify the source and content of posts. With very little effort, I could be Ariana Grande and sell Canadian Xanax, but that wouldn’t make it right.
@2many2no
Thoughtful post. Thx.
However
Demo this please. We all wanna watch.
YouTube will want to see this, surely.
@f00l Uh…
The actual visual scares me too.
@2many2no
Because eBay takes 3%, so they have a profit incentive that overwhelms any near-zero risk they bear, and disclaim the rest in their TOS. In addition, they hold the money, and its easier to steal the seller’s money when the seller is committing fraud or money laundering themselves.
The criminals among the sellers can’t complain. And they will freeze & sieze seller bank accounts because allowing them to do so is required for sellers.
Like a guy selling empty gift cards on ebay is going to complain about getting ripped off when ebay drains his bank account
@2many2no If you were Ariana Grande with Xanax…call me.
I would even bring the donuts.
@mfladd
/giphy mmmm… donuts
@2many2no @mfladd
It’s been a LONG while since this was posted:
Related:
Longer clip:
This is a bragging rights law to celebrate shutting down backpage[/url], with the MO AG Chris Koster leading the charge in 2010.
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2010/09/22/attorney-general-chris-koster-goes-after-backpagecom
This was proposed by none other than Rep. Wagner, Ann [R-MO-2], my district, the heartland of St. Louis Great White Flight to the ‘burbs. She’s in it because women should be home-makers and raisin’ babies, not hooking on Backpage/CL. Nothing says ‘I’m a Republican’ more than taking away opportunities for women that aren’t white and rich. Too bad she didn’t give up her house seat to go after Claire McCaskill and lose both.
My senator, Claire McCaskill [D-MO] is up for election in the mid-terms in a deep red state. Claire was a state prosecutor and handled sex trafficking cases. She’s in it for the ‘save the children’ and ‘Christian family values’ angle for her campaign. Not particularly because she’s a Dominionist, but because lots of her voters are. I’d still take her over the turd Roy Blunt, Mr. ‘MO, MO, & MO NRA gun money’ hizzef.
Censorship will not create public safety nor will it rid the world of exploitation.
@mike808
^⭐️
@mike808 well, looks like they got backpage http://time.com/5231687/fbi-backpage-shut-down/
Anyone who actually knows and converses with sex workers would know that this sort of shit does nothing to fight sex trafficking, and does everything to harm consensual sex work. Note that, the female homicide rate, generally, decreased enormously with Craigslist’s Erotic Services page. That is, the homicide rate of sex workers decreased so dramatically that the homicide rate of women in general took an enormous hit. Public forums allow sex workers to vet their clients. They give law enforcement an in as far as actual trafficking is concerned. There’s just no upside here, and pink collar workers are going to be forced into shadier corners as a result of this, and the end result won’t be pretty (assuming you care about human lives).
P.S.
P.P.S.
@brhfl So maybe the wise choice for adult consensual sex trade would be to legalize, regulate, and tax it like any other business. How has this worked in the parts of Nevada that have it? Would pulling it up out of the underworld make the illegal activities (like underage, slave trade, etc.) less likely, more glaring, and/or easier to enforce? I don’t think buying or selling sex is a good idea, but I don’t believe it can ever be made to go away.
I wonder how it has worked out in the states that have legalized recreational marijuana. Does it reduce the demand through illegal drug channels? Maybe there’s not enough data yet to really know.
@brhfl
^⭐️
@2many2no @brhfl I’ve always said that the surest way to eliminate underage prostitution is to legalize it for adults. No adult sex worker is going to put up with competition from a teenager, take the threat of prosecution for their own business away and they’ll report underaged kids in a heartbeat. Get rid of the pimps and replace them with ordinary legal business models. Implement rigorous health checking and make condoms required by law. Make it safe and legal. I feel the same way about recreational drugs. I personally wish people didn’t desire these things, but they do, and some of them are willing to do literally anything to get them. So create an environment where they can be attained in a way that is least likely to get anyone hurt. And make it as mundane and boring as possible, and you’ll cut out a staggering number of thrillseekers.
Yeah, pretty much anybody paying attention thinks this is terrible.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/02/fosta-would-be-disaster-online-communities
Anyone know if the unconstitutional retroactive part (called out by the DOJ even) made it into the final bill that passed?
The catch also will be if this is the first step down a slippery slope where people who own/run forums are then held responsible for what people say on them regardless of the topic. That will shut down many of them which would be unfortunate.