A question for those slow to anger
7As I have said in the past, I can't stand people, let alone morons.
However, lately I have had to deal with moronic people.
Naturally, I have been getting increasingly frustrated with them.
I'm assuming that people here have more than their fair share of morons.
I'm not talking about dealing with people online, because dealing with them is different than dealing with people in person.
To those who are slow to anger/have more patience:
HOW?!?!
- 43 comments, 44 replies
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I got nothing as I have no patience for stupidity and avoid people in real life at all costs. I'm just jumping in here in hopes of learning something.
@PurplePawprints I'm a reformed social worker. Ain't nothing to learn, people really are stupid and it's incurable.
it's ok.
@Lotsofgoats
Tell that to all the people on the receiving end.
I'm sorry. I don't understand your question 😁
@capguncowboy
Can't tell if you're kidding or not.
@FroodyFrog absolutely kidding. I normally just make fun of them with someone like minded
@capguncowboy
May i please torture you with 10000 questions about the situation?
drugs. lots of drugs.
@clonetek Don't forget liquor. Gallons and gallons...
I work in a program that does mental health services for children and adolescents. Sometimes, it's faking the calm that works. Sometimes it's remembering that assholes don't know they are assholes and idiots don't know that they are idiots.
@MsELizardBeth
It's true that it's not very often assholes or idiots know what they are, and there is seldom anything to gain from pointing it out to them. No matter how satisfying it may be.
Of course, there's also the fact that losing my temper at someone probably makes me the asshole - sometimes it helps to remember that, sometimes not.
I am not slow to anger - I was when I was younger, but working in a bar while going to school ended up changing that... nothing like dealing with drunks every night to shorten your temper.
Since my current boss has asked me not to yell at people anymore (no matter how much they deserve it), when I get the urge to inform them at high volume of their shortcomings, I take a moderately deep breath and hold it for a count of ten while reminding myself that it will only make things less good - no matter how satisfying it is. Normally that helps at least a bit (enough that I haven't offered physical violence to anyone for a couple years now). If it's not sufficient, I might hang up the phone or kick them out of my office.
To me it's like bad weather. Why get po'd if i can possibly help it? Unless that emotion makes my life better, it's just wasting time and energy and messing up my focus and perspective. As for the morons and obstructionists, i just go around them or deal with them if necessary.
In the situation where someone is actively manipulative, destructive, hostile, controlling, etc in a situation i must be involved with: i will set boundaries and communicate to them (often indirectly and nonverbally) that such behavior will tend to result in frustration for them. When i believe someone is abusive i can become incredibly stubborn. Sometimes i will call out the offensiveness directly, not usually. I cant reform them and dont want to escalate with them, as the goal is elsewhere. I just want them out of the way and possibly pacified, to reduce future issues. If possible i will remove either that person or myself from the situation.
I did not know how to do this until my late fifties. Am still an amateur, but improving. One strength - all my life, when i get really irritated or po'd, i become v cold and analytical. Sometimes i have to be careful not to be unpleasant - to focus on the goal, not the irritant. The question is, what is the path to get back on track, assuming the person will continue to be a moron no matter what i do. Like dealing with weather or a punctured tire.
I should mention that i have zero expertise and am not wise. Just learned survival. My family and friends could no doubt give enlightening alt perspectives on my habits that i might need to hear and not enjoy contemplating.
That's it -- I'll build a weather control device! Of course!
@f00l I do exactly this, as much as I can remind myself to. I also take obscene satisfaction in annoying people by staying completely calm, cool and collected.
25 years in IT..makes for plenty of practice in patience!
@mikibell
Works out perfect then since out of all the different computer related jobs I can actually stand, IT is at the top.
May as well start learning now.
Thankfully, i have the other requirements down; namely: antisocialness in real life, and resentment towards society ;)
@f00l
Perhaps resentment was the wrong word. That's just the first one which popped in my head.
I'll probably come up with a better word later.
(Possibly animosity???)
@FroodyFrog
I slightly misread your reply before i wrote mine, which means i mis-replied, which is why i deleted my reply.
I have no psychological expertise, other than once reading the DSM cover to cover, about 25 years ago (cant remember why).
Emotions are built in, neurologocal, biological. They cant be removed. And diff people have diff habits and patterns, likely as a result of combo biology and life history. However we modulate our emotions - the instant ones, both obvious and under-the-surface, the the deeper, more continuous ones, by our beliefs, practices, habits, attitudes.
This is not easy to do, and takes a lot of time and work and awareness and feedback. And has nothing to do with "enlightenment", whatever that is. I suppose it's related to what's called "being an adult". We all know people who are adults, in the sense that they continually show good judgement and practices, and we all know people who, no matter how skilled or intelligent, arent adults. And the ones who "make adulthood" always still have huge blind spots, that seems a built in problem of a one-person perspective.
I suppose i have the normal, intuitive, personality and emotional responses to stuff. On top of that, if there is a prob - work, family, interpersonal, social - the issues for me become: how do i protect myself and my interests, if necessary? How do i not lose ground or waste time and energy? How do i avoid being a jerk? How do i improve the situation and move things forward? Can i improve things so that instead of a prob i have a new ally? Can i do something nice? Can i create greater understanding and is it helpful to do so? Can i ignore the prob remove it, go around it?
None of this is designed to do anything momentous, tho i suppose gifted persons use thinking like this more effectively than whats in my range. I just wanna make life and work better for me, fam, friends, etc. Since continual frustration seems pointless and soul-destroying, i just seek an alternative.
I have a brother who is incredible at this.
@mikibell I work in tech support and the mute button is my friend (and probably why I still have a job haha).
@stardate820926 but as some of my previous coworkers at a previous job found out, don't have too much trust in the mute button. Sometimes light would be on but it wouldn't actually be muted.
@stardate820926 God bless the mute button, but as @brdubb mentioned, it cannot always be trusted. My go-to response when I am frustrated is "I cannot fix stupid".. and just shake my head. Somehow, I have gotten a reputation for being reasonable and fair (not sure how THAT happened!) so I get all the crazy issues.
I'm generally quick to anger. Can't help you here bud :/
@FroodyFrog Why waste energy? They don't matter and aren't worth it.
I try to restrict genuine anger to those who try to kill me (mostly drunk drivers) and those who try to eliminate my job for bureaucratic or back stabbing reasons. [Happily,I have not been killed and have always ended up better off when some SOB corner-cutter has tried to get rid of me.]
my wife says i have enough patience for many people, but when i lose it, time to run and hide.
anyways mine stems to negative reinforcement. I used to be quite quick to anger and let everything get to me, even as far as stressing over how stupid people were. This was a constant battle of never really being happy.
While I was working in a Tier2 Call Center, I began to have neck muscles spasms. So bad that I couldn't turn to my right. I couldn't look right which made driving to and from work quite entertaining. Two days in, finally get into the dr and they give me muscle relaxers and an anti-inflammatory. Over the course of the next few months I would get them at least every couple days but with some pills the spasms would go away. So I began to look at life and look at things. I soon noticed that if I started to stress get overly angry about things, I would start to feel a tinge in my neck. So I would look for ways to avoid the pain that was onsetting. Now 8 years later, I seem to be pretty stress and anger free.
I also have an Ex-wife (who my kids are with) and as much as it pisses my current wife off when my ex does stupid shit (which is weekly) and I don't flinch or react, she respects that I have learned how to not let it bother me. Because all my ex looks to do is to insight anger and reactions.
So I guess there are two negative reinforcement items....
(also I had a very good role model in my father who I don't think I saw get angry but 3 times my entire life).
edit: tl;dr negative reinforcement, painful spasm when anger/stress, don't want that shit anymore..and stupid ex-wife and father good role model..........................
Develop a sense of empathy. I ask myself, why they are being dumb or stupid? Sometimes the answer comes to me and I can help the situation. Also maybe sometimes I'm the one that's being dumb and stupid. If everyone else seems to be dumb and stupid around you maybe you're the one that's triggering it.
@Kevin This comment is triggering my feelings of irritation because I'm pretty sure I'm not the cause of other people's ignorance. (Though I'll admit to occasionally being the dumb one.)
Time for me to scroll up and reread all the other tips. Maybe they'll sink in. Deep breaths and all that.
@PurplePawprints you need to take responsibility for your emotions. You're allowing people's stupidity to alter your emotions. That's a problem you need to deal with. It's not easy, and It's something that can effect me just as well.
Its not easy to think logically in the heat of the moment.
@Kevin While I do need to, and indeed do, take responsibility for my emotions and reactions, I didn't really get irritated at what you wrote. It was just a joke that fell flat.
@PurplePawprints trigger warning!
@Kevin that's so true. Some people get offended by honest things I say. They need to take responsibility for their emotions instead of blaming me. It's their problem and they need to deal with. If they get HR involved, HR should hook them up with counseling to deal with their emotions, instead of trying to convince me to lie or otherwise be less truthful.
I'm a pissed off, old lady, living in a "Stand your ground" state. I dream of getting a license to carry and then just kill stupid people. My excuse, "I'm an old lady. They scared me."
I probably wouldn't do that. Even idiots have a right to live. sigh.............
@Teripie I like you. That is all.
@Teripie Me too! I also understand that in FL, if you shoot somebody, the cops take your gun, and it may be months before you get it back. The moral is, I think, to carry a gun you don't mind losing for awhile. This is FL, they ought to sell them in multipacks, like AMZN did for the Fire tablets before Christmas. Anybody have a recommendation? Or has this conversation gone off track in one quick hurry?
It's you against them, and the world is constantly generating an almost endless supply of morons. They just keep coming. It's like an endless runner video game. You cannot beat them, you just have to shoot for your personal high score. How? It's hard at first but you have to remember that getting angry doesn't really help, and if it doesn't help, its not worth wasting the energy. Pretending to stay calm has almost the same exact effect as actually staying calm. Pretending is like lying. You've probably told a lie before, right? And the more you do it, the better you get at it. (Because lying is like acting, and you can be a better actor if your practice, right?)
By the way, I don't have anything against morons, some of my best friends know morons.
@miko1 some of my best friends ARE morons.....
@miko1 Actually it is pretty satisfying to stay calm if they are trying to push your buttons and make you mad. Doing that frustrates the living daylights out of some people. Heck make it into a game. Can you frustrate them by being reasonable? If you do it that way then they look stupid if they then complain about you to someone else.
My kid, when a teen, used to scream at me on a fairly regular basis, "I hate it when you use your calm voice when I'm trying to make you mad" (often followed by, "Just because you are being reasonable don't think I still don't hate you"). I had to be really careful not to laugh when she'd scream this kind of stuff at me.
Usually I just say fuck it and go home or at least somewhere where they sell chocolate croissants and coffee
Dealing with morons is like clicking the meh button. If you mess up and get angry at one it's like forgetting to click the meh button. If you remember to stay calm (click the button) it won't really make any difference (meh don't care if you click the button) other than you will feel better about it (yourself), if clicking the button every day was your goal (staying calm). If you forget to stay calm and get angry (forget to click the button), it's not really going to matter to the morons (meh does not give an F if you forget to click the meh button) but you will be letting yourself down (wasting your own energy and making yourself feel bad).
Really, the goal here is to keep yourself from feeling bad right?
By the way, I don't have anything against meh buttons. While I don't have any friends who have clicked the meh button, I have personally clicked meh buttons in the past.
I just leave the room and he can yell at his computer all he wants. I used to try to help him figure out what the problem was, but five years later he's having the same problems, not having learned anything. It's so much easier to have someone else do it, than learn to do it yourself.
I learned if I listened to the ranting much longer, I may just have to punch him in the ear, so now I leave the office and it's done wonders for our marriage.
I cannot help you because I do not know you, but I can recommend this:
Assume someone else did something to them earlier that day that pissed them off so they're behaviour now that's pissing you off is part of a chain reaction. In other words, put yourself in their shoes.
Be humble. We're all morons about some things.
No one is perfect and you can't change them. Accept who they are and move on. Do something you enjoy the most. Don't waste your energy on them. That's what I usually do. :)
@galmaegi is the real mvp
@Lotsofgoats yet not good enough to be vmp
In addition, I know that some things are really easy for me to grasp. But other people don't have the same strengths as I do. My husband is a genius when it comes to some things, but something as simple as transferring photos from his camera to his PC is hard for him to do.
To me, things like bluetooth and electricity are nothing short of magic. You can explain them to me a thousand times, and chances are I'll still have a hard time comprehending how they work. Getting frustrated with me won't help me understand any better.
Brian manufactures and sells hydraulic side and top links on the internet. Each widget he sells has tags telling the customer what that connector is, to make it easier for the customer to install. He also sends sheets that the customer is supposed to read to help with the installation. He makes it as easy as he can. Unfortunately, some people still don't understand and he has to walk them through it over the phone. He gets really frustrated when they send pictures of what they've done and it's clear to him what's wrong, but not to them. And he mostly understands that it's not that they're stupid, it's just the first time they've tried anything like this on their own and they're a little scared of breaking something. Well, there are the ones who didn't read the inserts sent. "Oh, gee, duh".
And then there are the people who haven't bought anything, just heard he's the go to guy for information and call wanting his advice on making their own top and tilt sets...where to buy the supplies needed....that's when I tell him he needs to set up technical support pricing.
I have nothing to add.
@marklog liar!
I admit that I have not read through everything here so someone may have said this already, but here is my method. I take a deep breath and then I picture the situation as if it were my grandmother (or someone else I care about) behaving this way...then I try to deal with the person as I would want someone to deal with grammy if she were to have done the same, stupid thing, whatever it was. It works most of the time.
I saw a post on reddit the other day that should help clear this up:
(TL;DR Anyone in IT who didn't upvote @clonetek is lying by omission.)
@Chops
The "large bird of prey-free workplace" comment made me giggle hysterically. Got a lot of people glancing in my direction, then when they saw it was me, they went back to whatever they were doing.
@Chops I forgot to add "and rum" lol
I have a mantra....
Non-reactivity
Non-reactivityNon-reactivityNon-reactivityNon-reactivityNon-reactivityNon-reactivityNon-reactivity
Usually works. I repeat it until I feel better. Most assholes are looking for a reaction
Just before I retired, on a full pension, I got a vicious, evil boss, who kept getting rotated through departments because she was a disaster at everything but she was unfireable because she technically had the qualifications, she had the time, and she fell in a couple of categories which made managers very wary of her. She'd claim that we hadn't done stuff, that we'd missed deadlines, etc. I had about four months to go, so I nodded and promised to do better and asked for details etc. I may have overlooked training her on the finer points of the databases. I published the next year's financial plan, with schedules, and copied everybody up and down the chain, as my final report, and it was lovely, especially where she was the action person for everything. My contacts tell me that she has been through two more departments since I retired. Passive aggressive? You betcha.
@OldCatLady Passive-aggressively is often the best way to deal with intractable morons. And I think it's appropriate.
Others have given some great advice, much of which I agree with. Here's some other stuff, most of it related to morons in the workplace. By other choices, I mostly avoid morons in my personal life (except on the road, where I yell at them even though they can't hear me):
Often, the morons at work want to introduce small talk and distraction.
- See above about being and looking busy.
- It's nice having a big project so that you can say, "Hey, I'd love to chat, but I've really got to work on that big project." It's usually easy enough to turn something into a big project or just invent one out of thin air.
- Perversely and stubbornly introduce meaning--meaning that's likely to annoy a moron--into the conversation. Use vocabulary or make allusions that go over their head. Have fun on your own terms. This drives many a moron away in frustration or from sheer indifference.
- Do something else. If you're sitting at a computer, start typing, perhaps ostensibly in an email. Look at something on the screen. Do something with your phone.
Honestly, I can find something to like about most people, if only for a limited time and to a limited extent. It helps to believe that most people are really smart or really care about something that matters in some small way to me. Find that thing. Focus on it. Get them talking about it.
I firmly believe that anyone is likable and tolerable if only we know them better. I don't have time to do that with everyone and I want to make my choices about the people who get my time. If I'm in a situation where I can't get around being in the presence of someone I otherwise don't like (I don't like morons) for long enough that it starts to get to me, I decide that I'm going to find the thing that makes them interesting, likable and smart. It can be a challenge, but it's usually doable.
@joelmw Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.
@Barney Sometimes I say a thing or two. ;-)
@joelmw
Your tactics are inspired. I try to use "distract, dazzle, get away" or pre-formulated excuse tactics with people who are nice, but love to waste time - and also with most life-sucking types. Those will also work with some of the destructive types, but not all....for those, there are books that deal with difficult-person problems. I havent read amy tho. Learning how to look or sound busy is always a great skill.
I used to be slightly passive-agressive but too often a patsy or too nice to awful people when i was the target - mom pounded me w "be nice" growing up. In a few cases in adult life, it helped - the "problem" came round amd wound up decent.
As i got older, got sick of putting up w abuse too often, and anger drove me to innovate. Now i sometimes confront or discuss, and sometimes just limit contact or dig in heels. Depends on persons or circumstances. For persons older than common working age, anything they wanna do except ouright abuse to others is ok. They paid their way in life. If they wanna abuse me, fine, whatever, i dont care, i will be polite, and not yield to abuse. For most people in work and life, my tactics depend on my read of the person and situation. I look for a win-win option, will settle for no-damage to-my-interests outcome if possible.
If someone is a moron but is nice and wants to learn, i try to give them a little info they can make sense of.
I suppose one necessary ingredient to all this is to not take things personally, see the person's conduct as "their problem" that you have to route around, stall if needed, step back, make a plan. Try to stay uninvolved emotionally.
I actually like or care deeply for many people who provoke me. Im sure i provoke them. In most cases we are happy over decades to share our lives.
@f00l
Many people have mentioned empathy. To me it goes w/out saying. Which does not mean "get sucked in." To me, any of the techniques mentioned, without empathy included, would make for a hollow life. (not claiming to be fabulous at empathy, but i try)
@f00l I'm reminded of a guy who worked next to me who was kind of an obnoxious, opinionated blowhard of an asshole (yeah, I know I am, but his opinions are 180 degrees of mine, so, yaknow, he's just wrong ;-) ). His frequent and loud pronouncements about all manner of shit used to drive me crazy. He's one of the reasons I started wearing headphones all of the time (and, hey, I realized that I like it for other reasons too, so thanks, asshole).
But if I ever needed--maybe just out of common courtesy (we were neighbors after all)--to really be in his presence for an extended period, I'd get him talking about his grandkids and kids, which he was always happy to do. He loves those buggers and is enormously proud of them. And I believe he's a good dad and a great grandpa, despite being such an asshole and being so wrong about so many other things. I genuinely admired him in those moments and actually wanted to be more like him in some ways.
On just about any other subject, he was very likely to very quickly piss me off. But on that subject, he made me happy.
As someone who has a lot of patience, doesn't anger easily, and has worked in customer service / IT for 20+ years, I've got a few general suggestions / comments:
1) Empathy. This isn't something that comes naturally to everybody (especially if you can't stand people), but it's basically "putting yourself into someone else's feelings." If you're dealing with somebody who's not very smart in your area of expertise, you may feel frustrated when explaining it to them... but how do you think they feel? They probably don't feel good for having to ask for help in the first place, plus they're now struggling to understand a new concept. Think about how you felt when you had to ask someone for help on something you had trouble understanding. This helps a lot when I'm answering phones - I just think back to the times when I've had to wait on hold for customer services myself and empathize accordingly.
2) Mirror. This is kind of a physical version of empathy. If you're talking with someone face-to-face, notice their physicality and mirror it. Some people do this subconsciously (i.e., cross their legs when seated across from someone who has done the same). Try to match their energy - people are generally more comfortable with people like themselves. If they're really upset, don't get upset with them, but assure them with similar emphasis that you're there to help them ("That would really frustrate me as well - let me help you fix that!")
3) Don't take it personally. Unless someone is deliberately insulting or denigrating you, they're most likely angry at the situation and not you in particular. Sometimes just letting someone vent can do a lot towards defusing a problem.
4) Snopes.com. Okay, this is more for dealing with stupid people online, but it's still really handy. Just remember - no-one likes to be wrong... so if you're correcting someone, it's best to couch it accordingly ("I can see how that seems right (I've been fooled before), but Snopes showed me otherwise."), preferably in a private message.
And, if all else fails, there are IT jobs that don't require as much interaction with people (Network/System administrators deal more with technology than end-users). Good luck!
I get frustrated quickly and often. Deep breaths are how I survive. In through the nose, out through the mouth. Breathe with your diaphragm (stomach), not with you ribs (chest). A few of those and I'm usually ready to continue.
My mom's philosophy is "kill them with kindness." When a person does something stupid, or frustration, or is just one of the land's natural idiots, be nice to them. Oftentimes the WANT you to get riled up. You win by remaining calm. The nicer you are the more pissed off they'll become. Then they can deal with all the extra stress, and you can float on with your calmfullnessery.
Caffeine.
So you have enough energy to deal with their bullshit.
@legendornothing I feel comfortable filing that under "drugs."
At least until they start making coffee with adderall in it.
Empathy.
I've developed a great skill for listening carefully and thinking hard about where a person might be coming from--turns it into more of a puzzle, the question, "what could they possibly be thinking, and what assumptions and experiences in their life could have possibly driven them to it?" rather than being angry that they're having whatever reaction or idea.
As a last resort, I just imagine that they've been badly sleep deprived over the past year and missed their morning coffee, and that they are simultaneously so used to putting up with idiots themselves that they have forgotten that not everyone other than them are idiots.
I don't think that last sentence was even coherent. I could really use a nap. You get the idea.
I've already left instructions that my headstone is to bear the phrase, "What the hell is wrong with you people?"
Other than that, I got nothing.
I used to anger easily. My friends and family even had a name for my outbursts of rage. Then it occurred to me one day that letting people make me angry was actually allowing them to have a measure of control over me. Looking at it like that, it's relatively easy to say, "nope, not going to let you do that."
@walarney You could say the same thing about people that make you happy.
@hallmike Just wish there were more of those people. :)
One of my favorite quotes:
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
~John Watson
Good words to live by.
Here you go, from one of my most loved films (the original, not the horrid remake) Harvey:
Elwood P. Dowd: Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.
@Shrdlu
I didnt know there was a remake. Thx for warning. That film is too precious for for someone to do a lame imitation.
I almost started a new post, but this seems like the appropriate place to vent. Have you ever noticed how many hours we waste placating assholes who want justification for using a few minutes of their time?
Because living happy is the best revenge.
Just think of how stupid the average person is... then realize that half of them are even stupider.
Idiots are everywhere. If you get upset at even 10% of them it's a full time job. I don't stress unless someone's idiocy directly affects my life.
Maybe it's from so many years in IT, but I can listen to some mega severe dumb-assery and I just ignore it and continue doing what I'm supposed to do.
What's great about this is that no one believes that they are the idiot/asshole. We're all convinced we're the only ones not fucking it up.
@Thumperchick oh I'm well aware I'm the asshole in many situations. And I'm okay with that.
@Thumperchick
I'm a certified "non-idiot/non-moron".
@Thumperchick
I might always be "the asshole", or perhaps "also an asshole", just 'cause i'm convinced i'm not one.
some 20+ years ago, a very wise man gave me this advice....."what kind of man (women) are you, to let those a**holes get to you".....
that being said, when someone does something that could cause me or my family harm through their stupidity, i will call them out on it....but the everyday (office) idiot....they no longer ruffle my feathers...they aren't worth it.....
Have any of you ever looked at the full definition of idiot or moron before tossing it out in casual conversation? It's nowhere near as funny when you have a mentally-challenged person in your family.
@jsimsace
I apologize for using the term moron.
I know what it's like to deal with people with mental disabilities (I deal with some on a daily basis).
However, I refuse to use these terms in association with them, because they are considered offensive. I am careful with how i refer to certain types of people, so when I use these words, I don't associate them with those with who are mentally challenged.
However, most people i know aren't as careful, so i suppose i should have used the term "bonehead" instead.
@jsimsace
Yeah i knew i was in dangerous territory with those terms. I used them in the common street use of today, but perhaps i should have been more sensitive. Apologies.
However, i (and most people i know) no longer ever use those words to describe someone who lives with a lifelong or chronic medical or congenital condition. I suppose i need a word that indicates "blockheaded, willfully obtuse asshole who messes with other people." But i cant come up with quite the right word.
I had a bad supervisor guy who tried to sandbag my job just as he was leaving the company. Happily, another staff member stood up for me and after the creep left, suddenly my work was recognized as essential and valued. When you have a dullard above you, it can be tough.