@PocketBrain Are these on the CDC FDA Authorized list. WHo made these what are they. This is a dangerous thing you are doing not providing more information to the public on a device that is meant to protect them.
@shimmertime Not only are you nonsensically replying to a random person, you are apparently unable to read the description that clearly says it’s for pollen and not medical use…
@curtise@einrad The image can be false though for what the actual masks look like as some of the boxes of 50 they post (and many other sites too so not just an issue here) have 2 and 3 different masks shown in the photos so you really don’t know what is actually in the box. Of course the number in a bag, when printed on the bag like this, is more likely accurate.
@katbyter@yakkoTDI I had just recently listened to a well educated doctor talk about how recirculating Co2 within masks promoted anaerobic mouth flora growth, perhaps this whole mask wearing thing is a dentist conspiracy
@katbyter@sp3ar@yakkoTDI Is that the same “well educated Doctor” that said our breath broke down the plastic and people suffocated in moments? Explaining why surgeons and Doctors avoid these like the plague? Because it sounds like something he would say.
@katbyter@sp3ar@yakkoTDI Thank goodness he wasn’t a poorly educated doctor! Sheesh. I wonder if this doctor avoids wearing masks during medical procedures. I wouldn’t be patronizing this nutball.
Who is the manufacturer - Vese or is that the model? Are they on the FDA approved list (I can’t find it even listed there using Vese so that might not be the manufacturer; if not who is)? There are many PN and RN 95 masks that didn’t even come close to passing filtration tests despite their name. I’d like to buy but in order to do so I’d need to know this. Otherwise these are no different than other disposable masks except more expensive.
EDIT - I see you are trying to protect Irk from us (or would that be us from Irk)
@Kidsandliz AFAIK KN95s were only temporarily approved for a little over a month during the initial shortage and the approval was revoked shortly afterwards. They’re from Korea and FDA has refused to certify them due to politics. However, I have a bunch, have been using them for 4+ months and have yet to catch the covid, soooooo. /shrug
@katbyter Well that was my best guess too. They aren’t on the list nor on the counterfeit list so likely not tested so it would be a major crap shoot. Some of the ones that failed only just barely failed (so since it is very hard to actually fit properly ear loop ones likely that doesn’t matter) but some failed by a mile (for example filtration of 30% - and I think I saw on at like 23% or something - instead of 95% or higher to pass) and that would matter. Some of the cloth masks and disposables would be better.
@PHRoG The list gets updated continuously so that is an older one. BUT even if they dumped them from the newer lists due to politics likely (but not always - there are a couple of manufacturers cheapened their product after getting approval and then subsequently got dumped) ones tested aren’t all that different from earlier lists.
@PHRoG Too late to edit. I thought (without clicking) that was the extensive list of those approved and those that failed. That isn’t the link for that. My bad.
Not sure how many people here share my sentiment, but I’m not considering these because of COVID: I already have tons of reusable cloth masks for that.
I’m considering these because the west coast is on fire, it looks like silent hill outside in regards to visibility, and with an AQI around 600, it’s not safe to breathe the air without a respirator, however they’re impossible to find, because there was already a shortage due to COVID.
So, knowing if these actually work to spec is incredibly important to me.
Even if the air clears up before they show up, it seems like these “once in a lifetime” mega fires are now a bi-yearly happening, so having a stash for the inevitable next one is something I’m considering as well.
But only if they’re actually proven to be N95 equivalent.
@Kidsandliz@PHRoG@talv0002 Not exactly true. The N95 has a sealing requirement - how well it seals to the face. As of March, no N95 masks used ear loops, as ear loops don’t usually allow the same quality seal.
KN95 have either no sealing requirement in the specification, or a minimal one, I don’t remember. Thus the use of ear loops, which have other advantages.
The filtration requirement of the two standards are the same.
@katbyter@Kidsandliz@Narwalt i think the approved ones will have two straps around the back of the head, not ear loops. The counterfeit list is if a niosh number is there but is a false number or reused from a different manufacturer. From the picture, these are ear loops without a niosh number. I don’t think they will be on any list.
For smoke use, i think the recommendation is to use a two strap one too, not ear loops.
@katbyter@Narwalt@quimming There is the NIOSH list and then there is the FDA testing of foreign and domestic masks for filtration levels. I was talking about particle filtration testing (which include both ear loop and tie straps masks claiming to be RN or PN 95) not the NIOSH list.
The FDA was testing non NIOSH masks because of the shortage of N95 masks so that if medical facilities were forced to use one of these over having nothing, they at least new which ones were made of materials that matched the filtration level of the N95 AND had consistency in manufacture. Some were all over the map some the results were very close to each other (eg consistent), some were always 95 and better, others tested on both sides of 95…
Ear loop ones are inferior for fitting purposes (eg far more difficult to have them properly fitted) and the majority of ones that have been imported ones have ear loops.
I have read - without a back up of a scientific article that tested this - that adding a tie that goes from the front of the mask attaching to the top side of the earloop and then can be tied on top of the head helps and another one on the bottom tying along the neck end of your head increases the fitting. I also have seen a few clinic people at the local university medical center doing this (and then wearing another disposable rectangular mask over their PN or RN 95 to help keep the outer surface clean) and asked one MD why. That is what he told me. So there may be science behind those extra ties or not. No idea.
BUT if you look at the filtration testing of the mask with respect to the materials used, there is a wide range from acceptable for claiming to be PN or RN 95 and ones with far less filtration than that number implies. Some are so poor that you’d be better off with a cloth mask or other disposable mask.
The FDA list I linked to is the testing of the filtration of the masks regardless of country of origin, and also lists those that failed and counterfeit masks.
The mask being sold here, with the information disclosed, can’t be found on either list. As a result they could be good or suck bricks. We have no idea.
@Kidsandliz The FDA does not certify or approve of respirator masks. Disposable respirators , such as the N95 are approved by NIOSH, a different governmental agency
@TexterTusher Yeah I know. I posted a correction that I was using CDC and FDA interchangeably and shouldn’t have. I didn’t say who NIOSH was other than they approved them. What matters though to me is the lists the agencies create that I linked to with respect to people trying to figure out masks, filtration rates, what is junk and what is not, etc. It would be really nice if there were enough actual real N95’s available that there were enough for all people who both need or want them. Then the junk wouldn’t have much of a market.
I got these off morningsave a while back. Good for when the cloth masks are all in the wash, but I don’t trust them. See those little dashes on them? They’re translucent. I’ll only use them when I’m just popping into the halls of my condo building and back up, not for anything where I think the risk of exposure is higher. (Cases are low in my area, and we’ve had 3 or 4 known cases in my building through the entire pandemic out of a population of ~500 residents.)
@Jamileigh17 I cannot speak specifically about this mask, and I am certainly not a N95 expert, but real, certified N95 masks will also have these same “translucent” “wields” on them. I have some real N95 certified, listed verified N95 (not KN95) masks, and they have this same “feature”. It is where the manufacturing process seals or solidified, or combines, or attaches (cant figure out the correct word!), by using heat, the mask. So, just because a mask does nor does not have those “translucent wields” on them, does not indicate quality or lack of quality.
@BuddTX@Jamileigh17 THIS. As polypropylene mask material is a melt blown fiber, the translucent areas you see are actually solid impermeable plastic melted together to weld the layers.
I wear cloth with an N95 grade filter material in it (made in the USA!) but these might be better than those silly blue paper jobs.
@finalremix the KN95 is the equivalent to the N95 but Chinese certification. The CDC did tests on a bunch of the KN95 and some don’t meet basic standards. I need the manufacture so I can check the CDC research article. Some KN95’s are pretty good.
I have to expect that these are crap, so I resisted buying on morningsave. There is a place on ebay selling them as low as 30 cents each in 1k quantity and it is implausible that those meet real n95/kn95 specs at that price (electrostatic layer etc) since cheap n95’s in that qty were around $1 each before the pandemic. Supposely a simple test is to try to pour water through the mask: if it drips through the mask is no good. I’m trying to work out a more serious test involving a particulate sensor.
@phr Also even more basic is to try to blow out a candle through them (this is a test for disposables) because if you can blow a candle out they aren’t blocking much if any of our breath.
If you cut one apart and put a match to the the filter in the middle it should melt and not flame.
@Kidsandliz@phr, well, you know farts are the sharpest cut in the world! They cut right through a pair of jeans without so much as tearing a seam!! JSYK!!
@jeffreywsnyder that presumes they actually do what they say they do. The FDA has tested numerous masks and found that many don’t filter to the extent that they claim (not to mention some are counterfeit).
@decoratedwarvet@jeffreywsnyder Well yes but then the discussion went down the path of education of folks who knew little about N95’s and non NIOSH ones, the testing of them, the issue of fitting and ear loops vs ties, etc. The entire point of wanting to know the manufacturer (at least with me) so I could look them up on that list to see if they had acceptable filtration levels. So some of this sub part of the thread was more or less why it mattered.
@Kidsandliz Hey, I’ve really gotten a lot of good info from reading this thread, and from your posts. I grok more, thanks. One assertion I’ve read (incl above) is about incorporating these - or even panty hose (?) - as an additional barrier underneath quality cloth masks. I’ve even found some cloth ones with pockets sewn in, to that end. So I’m curious about your take on that (or from the general Meh forum posters). Thanks for reading and thanks for your sincerity.
Regards,
S
@SscoootzZ A number of shop towels have been tested as many of them are made out of non-woven material. The two that tested the best were Toolbox the blue roll and Zep white industrial in a box. Both are cheap.Filtration was nearly as good as a surgical mask. Suggestion was then made to make them as middle layer replaceable filters in masks. I have read adding pany hose over everything, including the sides (eg like a donut and the hole in the middle has your head) blocks a lot of the air leakage in both directions which increases personal protection a bit.
@Drunkenalien@TheMonkeyKing Chet Faker’s video for “Talk Is Cheap”, according to some reverse image searching and some Russian websites with the name “chet” scattered through unintelligible runes, and then a youtube thumbnail:
What the hell, I always need spares when I forget to move the good Star Trek 5-layer ones I got from a skilled corset maker back to the car after washing.
/giphy fantastical-worrisome-tendency
I’ve been using KN95 masks for going out to the more “dirty” public places (Costco, etc). They are more comfortable (wearing and breathing) than cloth masks and I’m sure they are way more effective than generic blue surgical masks.
As others have said, easy to check with the candle or water test.
@socos Add to that the match test. Proper filers melt and don’t burn. Side note - if they melt this still isn’t evidence they filter at 95 of .3 (or smaller) whatever that unit of measure is of particle size, but ALL that passed that will melt and not flame. So flaming tells you it fails no matter what. Melting does not tell you passes no matter what.
@hchavers, the same virus, the SARS CoV-2 virus specifically, is in every nation on earth & JSYK, the coronavirus that hit NYC was from Europe!! Check out where your shirts, ties, and equipment parts are made. Also, ask where your meds are made!!
@aaronshupp@hchavers, I dare say, I know more than you, or at least as much!! You, my friend, don’t seem to under-fn-stand sarcasm!! Has it been Jan since you’ve purchased a shirt, tie, or an automotive/lawn mower part¿? Whether the item is an OEM part, or a brand name item, they All came from [and were ‘handled’] by someone in a country where the SARS CoV-2 virus IS fn Present!! JSYK, the item is only contamin-ated for 2 -4 hrs to 1-5 days, or for a certain period of time; in any case, it is likely over a month B4 you get your clueless hands on the item!! Duuh!!
Furthermore, when I majored in Biomedical Eng, for required credit hrs I took Sanitary Micro-biology, Food Microbiology, Organic Chemistry, Anatomy & Physiology which may [or may not] give me a leg up on this very dabatable subject!! Duuh!! Please, don’t come back with a, “Well, you don’t impress me!” JSYK, That is hardly my intent, nor is it my fukn desire, but you opened the door!! As far as my credintials, “They Are What They Are!!” A fn quote from your leader,…Mr Cheeto! Actually tRumplethinskin said, “It is what it is,” but you know what I mean; it’s just another way of sayin, “Duuh!”
@aaronshupp@hchavers, give yourself some time; your fucking life ain’t over yet!! How about these apples¿ I’ve seen more in 1 day than you have seen in your entire life, and talk about blood curdling cringinous,… there, you are waaay outta your league, Son! Ergo, go back to bed & count your blessings,…then, enter Sandman!!
@decoratedwarvet@Lynnerizer I only found them because I had the idea and then went looking. Like many great ideas I have, I’m always just a little late to the party.
The open holes in these make them as useful as teats on a boar hog.
N95 masks are supposed to keep out particles 0.3 microns (Covid19 is 0.1 microns, but is carried through droplets that are larger).
Hospital grade N95’s are and tested for air quality and leaks.
I can’t see where these would do ANY good with holes in them. Large particles can easily get through them.
HARD pass for me!
@Tadlem43
These aren’t n95’s and they aren’t marketed as such. You can easily web search information about them. And those holes aren’t straight up holes, there’s still a layer it’s just not 5 layers. If you’ve ever used one, you would know.
@riftraft KN95 is the China equivalent to the US N95. Even with one or two layers over the holes, they aren’t even close.
I’m a Respiratory Therapist. I know all about masks. Thank you, though.
@riftraft We haven’t used the term ‘Inhalation therapist’ since the '70’s. I’ve been in the field since 1972. I’m certified and registered and have only recently retired. You don’t have to believe me. It doesn’t change a thing about my career.
Hope that rocket surgeon thing works out for you.
The holes aren’t holes, they’re heat welds, where the layers of fibers are melted together. They’re supposed to be a solid impenetrable piece of plastic at those points, but tiny pinholes can form at the corners of them, so QA is important.
That said, I’m not the most confident in them as respirators, compared to N95s, due to lax to nonexistant Chinese standards, and the lack of a sealing requirement.
@Tadlem43
Why did you reply to the comment I didn’t make? Another user said rocket scientist. Maybe you should get your eyes checked, seeing as how you’re also reading “Korean US equivalent” as also “US approved”
Where is anyone saying these are equivalent to USA n95s?? My point stands, and these masks are not given to health care workers in place of N95s.
@riftraft@Tadlem43, yeah, it does,… at least as much as sarcasm’s suppose to work. In case you’re wondering, I know it’s ‘Rocket Scientist’, but that fuckn sarcastic term hasn’t been used since the 70’s!! Anyway, I had two friends who were fuckn Inhalation Therapists, but haven’t seen them since about 1975, hence the term. So, you say tomato & I say mater; either way, it’s all free speech!! Regardless, I believed you, but I was just fn trying to ruffle your feathers, or rather, your 3M N95 Surgical Mask {I mean, Respitory Therapist Mask}!!
As I mentioneda few weeks back, I purchased Seventy KN95 masks from Wish for $18+$10 shpng, so for $28 I got more than 3Xs what you will pay here should you buy these nose & mouth coverings!! Mine cost 40¢ each; these=$1 ea. They do come from China, so the wait time is close to a fn month. They Are 5 layers & they are FYI white, so even white supremacist can’t whine about the color!!
@PHRoG, I buy atuff from Wish, ebay, Amazon & meh & about 95% of the stuff is great, 2% is okay & 3% is crap!! You just have to be very deligent of what yoy buy, and research an item when you can!!
Unless you’re using a legit hospital grade mask, wearing any mask to stop Covid is like using a chain link fence to stop mosquitos. The best you can hope for is that it reduces your viral exposure so that you only have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic.
The best way to avoid the Covid is don’t sneeze and cough in people’s faces, keep your distance from other people, don’t touch your mouth, nose, and eyes, and WASH YOUR HANDS.
The worst masks you can wear are reusable cloth masks. The woven fabric has holes the size of the Grand Canyon (compared to the size of the Covid).
Unless you’re using a legit hospital grade mask, wearing any mask to stop Covid is like using a chain link fence to stop mosquitos.
While GOOD masks won’t meet the protection of an N-95 that is well fitted, they do decrease the amount of virus that makes it past the mask and thus in the air to breath in. That decreases your exposure.
One layer masks and neck gaiter masks are WORSE than other masks because research has documented that they actually break up the particles that are carrying the virus into smaller particles and stay hanging in the air longer. That makes them dangerous to others. Multiple layer tight weave cloth masks and disposables don’t break up the particles into smaller ones. Some cloth masks have fairly decent filtration and some don’t. Depends on the fabric. As a result it is not possible to make a blanket statement about cloth masks, although it is possible to make one about single layer masks and neck gaiter masks.
@sjk3 If you would read doctor recommendations you would see they say using a mask will “help” but the real benefit is an infected person wearing the mask will keep COVID from spreading from breath particles and their cough. Since you can be asymptomatic (not knowing you are infected) or one of those people who say “It’s my allergies” wearing a mask IS effective.
@sjk3, the best way to avoid COVID-19 is by not fn allowing Others to spit, cough, or spit on You!! FYI, coughing, etc, etc on everyone else isn’t gonna help one iota in sparing you from the said virus!! JSYK!!
@cthobbit Some of the counterfeit ones also have counterfeit certificates. Up higher is a link to tested masks and those that passed and those that didn’t along with counterfeit ones they have found. I didn’t check that particular link for the counterfeit list but most of the time when they update the “passed” list and didn’t pass list and then a separate list of known counterfeit with photos is also included in the list of links. Obviously the list doesn’t cover 100% of what is out there as all sorts of jokers are getting into the manufacture of “95’s” but they have tested a lot of them and continue to to test them as some factories are getting sloppier as time goes on.
@Kidsandliz Yes, but it’s sometimes easy to spot a fake certificate (like certified by a body that doesn’t certify masks, etc). So I’d want to see it before buying.
@cthobbit with masks I think they are just taking stock photos that came from wherever they bought them rather than actually opening a box/bag and taking a photo of what is in there. So many have several different looking masks in the photos (number of lines of weld, patterns of welds along the top, color up the sides even…) that it is clear they are not the same mask. Even boxes can have photos masks that are different than what is in there (noticed that in my local search for masks where the nose piece stayed bent, gap at the sides wasn’t huge, etc.). I sure wish the photos were of the actual product and everything else - especially with masks as there are so many “generic” with ‘random’ branding/rebranding. With some things that involve safety this, to me, is a big issue.
@tinamarie1974 right? I haven’t found the answer to this yet. During the last meherathon I tried it on one of the several items that I bought and the item with “enhanced shipping” arrived last?!?
Like 3 days after the others. Sooo, don’t think I’ll be doing that again! I’m in the PNW too.
@PHRoG@tinamarie1974 I assume it means they send it by a more reliable shipper but it doesn’t go out any earlier. So it would probably come faster than it’s sale mates but not necessarily fast.
@Kidsandliz, I heard dat, but also heard someone say they ordered a few items by Regular Dlvry & one by the Enhanced method & the Enhanced pkg came in last!! It showed up at his delivery address last!! Who Knew!! PAY MORE & GET LESS!! That does sound like a scam that the Chinese dealers would pull off! Those Chinese people are lovely, but the damned Manufacturers & Sellers, Not So Much!! If the items are from the USA, then the same same goes!!
@decoratedwarvet The stuff we buy here are already in meh’s warehouse regardless of who made them. The Chinese have nothing to do with the shipping. The shipper has everything to do with the shipping speed. I had expedited delivery on a box of masks. They came within a week. They were not sent Pitney Bowes. I had some irks take 6+ weeks via PB. It was on meh for using PB to begin with, but it was not on meh for how long PB took.
@Kidsandliz, you successfully read the remarks about China, but selectively [it seems] overlooked the last sentence,… .I assume Your(?) warehouse is in the US. If so, then what I said about the Chinese, also applies to y’all! The member who mentioned the fukn remark about that ‘Enhanced’ delivery did so in this session, but you can scroll the comments to find out who it was, I’m certainly not gonna bother with that ordeal. I would like to know though why it takes about a fn month for some deliveries & 5-7 days for others if they All come from that same warehouse!¿ Why not simply use the fastest & the less expensive Shipper¿? BTFW, I purchased a Clutch w/Pully on ebay, and the Seller shipoed it via Fedex & it arrived from Cal. in three days & I live near Memphis, Tn!! JSYK!! I just recived a set of nice cuff-links from Munster, Indiana via USPS & they took 4 days, so you tell me, What Am I Missing¿?
@decoratedwarvet Seems to me you need to discuss this with meh support. I don’t work there and have no insight into why they do their shipping the way they do.
@Kidsandliz, my bad! I misunderstood your first sentence in your comment. I took it to mean you Were support when you said, “The stuff ‘We’ buy here are already in meh’s ware-house!” In other words, “The stuff [here in the warehouse] we [the staff] buy here are already in meh’s warehouse!” You though meant, “The stuff [for sell] we [the customers] buy [from meh] are already in meh’s warehouse!” I Totally thought ‘Why is a staffer replying to me’ ¿? There’s more than one way to skin a rat & i skinned it the wrong way!! LOL!! Again, My Bad!!
@PHRoG@tinamarie1974 If enhanced shipping is available for an item, you’ll see a $1.99 optional upgrade fee during checkout. This fee is on top of any membership and regular shipping fees.
I recently bought these: https://bonafidemasks.com/Powecom-kn-95/
10 masks for $1.99 each, 20 for $1.70 each, etcetera. Basic shipping is free, and mine came in about 8 days.
The Powecom masks ARE on the September 4 approved list.
@MrNews I have some of these too. Researched the heck out of them (since I have an immune system cancer affecting the part that fights viruses) working backwards from the ones that were consistently on the approved list. Many were only selling to medical facilities, but some, like this company sell to anyone.The link here goes to one of their two distributors/resellers for the USA (I found them listed on the Chinese website where they listed their distributors; there is a west coast distributor too, shipping is quick though for the one linked to) for the Chinese company. The anti-counterfeit stickers checked out as well (have a scan bar you check out on their website).
Here is a link to the CDC list of counterfeit masks (this list is not 100% inclusive because the number of them are growing and they do update it regularly).
Here is the link to the CDC lists of of approved masks - there are multiple lists for different kinds of respirators so pick your link from the list. For example there are ones temporarily approved by the FDA as use of surgical masks (in my earlier posts I have been using CDC and FDA interchangeably and thus less carefully than I should have been doing), ones NIOSH approved at N95’s, etc. (there are a number of lists specific to a specific mask use and kind).
This link (then scroll down and click again) is of the TESTING OF MASKS and is NOT part of the NIOSH approval process, nor can manufacturers use this testing to claim anything. But on these lists you can look up a specific mask and see the results of testing to see how the mask itself filters with respect to particle size (that is NOT the same as testing to see if a mask is properly fitted so don’t confuse the two).
@Kidsandliz And it’s important for people to understand that the EUA is authorizing use as a substitute for an N95 in this crisis where for some utterly insane reason we still aren’t switching over industries to mass production of PPE how the fuck is this nation so fucking stupid.
Fuck.
But I digress.
Even if these aren’t valid N95 substitutes, they may still be of similar value as cloth or other masks, in terms of providing a reduction in the amount of exhaled virus that enters shared space. And, if the issue is the seal (which is a lot of what qualifies N95), you may be able to augment that with better elastic, foam tape, or even double sided fabric tape.
Plus, it will help disguise your identity when you finally break and punch an anti-masker square in their plague-hole.
@urseelye, Just Refuse To Accept The Pkg When It Is Delivered & It Will Return To Sender!! When It Returns To Sender, Then The Seller Who Took Your Money Has To Refund It, Or You Can Get Your Bank To Dispute The Charge!! All of this will take time, but these days, we all have loads of time, so…
Since I don’t really care about C19 (call me stupid but I don’t have any comorbidity factors) how would these be against smoke and pollution? I live in the PNW that is currently burning to the ground and something better than cloth masks might be worth having. Of course, by the time these arrive we’ll probably be dealing with mud slides and floods, but whatever. TIA
@tweezak I’m not going to lecture you on COVID-19 but I’d strongly encourage you to reconsider your stance on this.
That being said… yes, N95 respirators (and similar ones, like KN95’s) are the only kind of mask that actually protect you from the most harmful elements of wildfire smoke. They regularly go out of stock, at least in California, during wildfire season, even when there isn’t a pandemic.
Something you may already know but I think it’s worth emphasizing regardless: These masks only protect you from wildfire smoke effectively if they fit properly. So if you have a beard, for example, then a KN95 respirator is not going to be any more effective than a regular mask, because your beard will prevent the mask from having a good seal.
@d Thanks, D, for the sensible reply. I guess I should say that since everyone has basically said these won’t do anything for C19 I wouldn’t bother with them for that reason. My question was more around if they would help with wildfire smoke when I wanted to be out in my yard/garden (not around others). I should have also said I’m not concerned for myself WRT C19 but I gladly toe the line when it comes to wearing masks and so forth whenever asked to do so even if the ones available to me are likely ineffective (cloth, blue fiber surgical mask).
I do feel strongly about protecting others. I don’t think masks are really effective and for this reason, our church council (of which I am a member) has elected to continue to hold virtual services because so many of our members are older and if infected could easily succumb to the disease and whatever other complicating factors they have (cancer, diabetes, lung disease, heart disease, etc.). If we felt masks, sanitizing and physical distancing were good enough we would have started services back up long ago…but we have decided it’s just not worth the risk.
Thanks again and I hope my position is a little more clear now.
@tweezak Ah that makes so much more sense. I apologize for misunderstanding your perspective on this – especially because it sounds like we’re actually in agreement.
@PHRoG Nice! Are you sure you didn’t just faceplant in the dirt?
Seriously, that’s good to know. I’m right in the heart of the mid-valley and our air quality rating was over 440 this weekend. We stayed inside and watched TV.
Looking at your picture…it’s really interesting that the heat-staked dimples on the right appear really dirty suggesting that they allow more airflow than the mask material in general. The ones on the left are probably not visible from the angle but I bet they are similarly brown.
@tweezak hahaha, yup, no faceplanting here! Regarding the staining, no, those are solid weld points that don’t have any air flow at all. That’s why it’s looks concentrated near them. No air flow means no staining as air isn’t moving through them but instead around them.
@d@tweezak At least that’s better than our church, which seems to be taking the trump line: masks don’t work, covid isn’t that bad, if I die from it, it’s god’s will etc. I think they quietly had in person services for a couple of weeks into it not being allowed. Probably a majority of the membership and nearly all the leadership is elderly, or diabetic, or organ transplant patient or other relatively high risk health factors.
@d@kevinrs I run the church website (immanuelalbany.org) and we’ve been putting services/sermons online in audio format ever since our church was burglarized and all the audio equipment was stolen. Truly a blessing in disguise since we got a much more capable sound board, computer and software out of our insurance. That was when we developed the capability to record and put online.
We realize that people really want to get together and see their friends. But, like Trump, we don’t think masks do much so we fear it’s a false sense of security to bring people together with the implication that they will be safe as long as everyone wears a mask. Even physical distancing is no guarantee. We have some very frail people and if our desire to rush back to live services cost someone their life we would never forgive ourselves. That’s how I presented it to the council and they agreed.
Have a great day and be well.
For those who want confirmation, if you look at the bottom left of the main pic, you can see the back of the package where it says non- medical and “made in china”. I think it’s rather odd that they did not bother to capitalize China, and wonder if these are actually knock-offs of Chinese made filters . . . but who would be making them?
One Final Note that I would like to mention is: I use to be an owner/ operator of an Auto Paint & Bodyshop, or rather co-owned until my Dad passed. When I refinished an auto with acrylic lacquer, or arylic enamel [not a basecoat/ clearcoat, nor a urethane system which require more extensive protective measures] I used a 3M(paint) respirator. These do have [exhalation valves], but they can & are worn more than 1 time before those filters have to be R/R (remove/replace). The 3M Respirator is a great alternative, or even a better alternative to the regular particle masks, the KN95 masks, or even the N95 surgical masks!! JSYG(uys)K!!
@decoratedwarvet The trouble with masks with valves is that apparently they are designed to just protect you and not protect others (obviously with you painting the risk is just to you). One of the points of wearing a mask for covid is to protect others. They’d be good protection for you but they’d do nothing for others who then would be exposed as if you weren’t wearing a mask. Some medical facilities around here have banned them for everyone (employees and visitors) because of that.
@Kidsandliz The fact that this company can’t assemble the mask correctly puts the entire mask quality, design, and effectiveness in question. Besides, I should not have to “fix” something I ordered as a new. I might as well stick a sanitary napkin to my face.
@usabaker Well that’s right, we shouldn’t have to fix something sold as new that is defective. Defective crap shouldn’t be sold even on meh. There is a second, in my opinion, more important problem with these to begin with which is why I didn’t buy.
If the mask hasn’t been tested and isn’t on the CSC list of those that passed, you are likely not getting something of the “fill in the blank on the initials”-95 masks filtration level anyway. You’d hopefully be getting, at the minimum, something better than using a bandana, neck gaitor or one layer of fabric mask. As a result filling in melt holes with super glue would make no practical difference. Yeah crap quality if they melted things too much and you now have holes and even have to buy superglue, again shouldn’t have been sold to begin with. But since these don’t even have enough information on the packaging in English to identify them enough to see if they are even on the “list” of masks that are N-95 equivalent with respect to filtering with the material used, these are definitely of the buyer beware category.
I have found a decent N-95 equivalent masks - Powecom (the Harley on the url right now apparently is NIOSH approved - I haven’t checked that claim though), which have continuously been on the CDC lists of ones that passed since last May. The url is for an approved distributor of the powecom masks (found them on the chinese manufacture’s website of approved distributor’s list) : https://bonafidemasks.com/face-masks/
I bought a bag of 10 of the ear loop kind (all they had in stock at the time I bought or I likely would have bought a bag of 10 with two straps since it is easier to get them to seal better). The one I have used so far appears to be well made, the nose piece holds up well, ear loops have not pulled out and I have had far less glasses fogging than most masks I have tried. Of course it is almost impossible to properly fit ear loop ones without making modifications so we aren’t going to get maximal filtering to protect us like a properly fitted N-95 does rather than just protect others from us like non XX-95 masks do, but since there is relatively little air leakage (you’d need no air leakage for actual N-95 protection when in use) I’d image our own protection is much improved over a regular non-medical blue and white ear loop mask.
Hi @joelberman you can contact support either through the support form or from your orders page by clicking on the “I need help with this” button after you view the details of the order.
Specs
What’s in the Box?
Price Comparison
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Warranty
90 days
Estimated Delivery
Tuesday, Sep 21 - Monday, Sep 27
Voter’s special today!
@PocketBrain Are these on the CDC FDA Authorized list. WHo made these what are they. This is a dangerous thing you are doing not providing more information to the public on a device that is meant to protect them.
@shimmertime Not only are you nonsensically replying to a random person, you are apparently unable to read the description that clearly says it’s for pollen and not medical use…
@Telanis Yes because people really read fine print just another group of scum bags making a quick buck and puting people in danger.
@shimmertime
I apologize and have taken them down; they are no longer for sale.
@PocketBrain @shimmertime
The description says packaged in 4-packs, but the images show four 5-packs. Might be worth checking which is correct.
@curtise 4 packs of 5.
@curtise If in doubt, trust the image. We all know how reliable the meh staff writers are
@curtise @einrad The image can be false though for what the actual masks look like as some of the boxes of 50 they post (and many other sites too so not just an issue here) have 2 and 3 different masks shown in the photos so you really don’t know what is actually in the box. Of course the number in a bag, when printed on the bag like this, is more likely accurate.
@curtise, either way, 20=20, same same!! You get 5 four packs, or 4 five packs! Woopie-do! Most guys here have a lot bigger
to whine about these days!!
@curtise @einrad @Kidsandliz, what box¿?
@decoratedwarvet meant to consistently say bag in that post.
These make my breath stink.
@yakkoTDI Maybe you’re just learning of it?
@katbyter @yakkoTDI I had just recently listened to a well educated doctor talk about how recirculating Co2 within masks promoted anaerobic mouth flora growth, perhaps this whole mask wearing thing is a dentist conspiracy
@yakkoTDI, maybe one’s breath already stunk, but & at least no one else has to fn smell it!!
@katbyter @sp3ar @yakkoTDI Is that the same “well educated Doctor” that said our breath broke down the plastic and people suffocated in moments? Explaining why surgeons and Doctors avoid these like the plague? Because it sounds like something he would say.
@katbyter @sp3ar @yakkoTDI Thank goodness he wasn’t a poorly educated doctor! Sheesh. I wonder if this doctor avoids wearing masks during medical procedures. I wouldn’t be patronizing this nutball.
Who is the manufacturer - Vese or is that the model? Are they on the FDA approved list (I can’t find it even listed there using Vese so that might not be the manufacturer; if not who is)? There are many PN and RN 95 masks that didn’t even come close to passing filtration tests despite their name. I’d like to buy but in order to do so I’d need to know this. Otherwise these are no different than other disposable masks except more expensive.
EDIT - I see you are trying to protect Irk from us (or would that be us from Irk)
@Kidsandliz If Meh admins are seeing this, I wish you could get notifications on someone else’s post because I also want to see the answer to this.
@Kidsandliz something tells me with that packaging it’s not passing any tests.
@Kidsandliz AFAIK KN95s were only temporarily approved for a little over a month during the initial shortage and the approval was revoked shortly afterwards. They’re from Korea and FDA has refused to certify them due to politics. However, I have a bunch, have been using them for 4+ months and have yet to catch the covid, soooooo. /shrug
@katbyter Well that was my best guess too. They aren’t on the list nor on the counterfeit list so likely not tested so it would be a major crap shoot. Some of the ones that failed only just barely failed (so since it is very hard to actually fit properly ear loop ones likely that doesn’t matter) but some failed by a mile (for example filtration of 30% - and I think I saw on at like 23% or something - instead of 95% or higher to pass) and that would matter. Some of the cloth masks and disposables would be better.
@Kidsandliz aaaaaand it looks like they reissued the authorization back in June according to teh Google: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-reissues-emergency-use-authorizations-revising-which-types
@PHRoG The list gets updated continuously so that is an older one. BUT even if they dumped them from the newer lists due to politics likely (but not always - there are a couple of manufacturers cheapened their product after getting approval and then subsequently got dumped) ones tested aren’t all that different from earlier lists.
@PHRoG Too late to edit. I thought (without clicking) that was the extensive list of those approved and those that failed. That isn’t the link for that. My bad.
Sept 4th list (scroll down - has both an approved list and an ones that failed list)
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-emergency-use-authorizations-medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-euas#respirators
@Kidsandliz @PHRoG KN95 is China’s version of N95, the South Korean is KF94.
Not sure how many people here share my sentiment, but I’m not considering these because of COVID: I already have tons of reusable cloth masks for that.
I’m considering these because the west coast is on fire, it looks like silent hill outside in regards to visibility, and with an AQI around 600, it’s not safe to breathe the air without a respirator, however they’re impossible to find, because there was already a shortage due to COVID.
So, knowing if these actually work to spec is incredibly important to me.
Even if the air clears up before they show up, it seems like these “once in a lifetime” mega fires are now a bi-yearly happening, so having a stash for the inevitable next one is something I’m considering as well.
But only if they’re actually proven to be N95 equivalent.
@Kidsandliz @PHRoG @talv0002 Not exactly true. The N95 has a sealing requirement - how well it seals to the face. As of March, no N95 masks used ear loops, as ear loops don’t usually allow the same quality seal.
KN95 have either no sealing requirement in the specification, or a minimal one, I don’t remember. Thus the use of ear loops, which have other advantages.
The filtration requirement of the two standards are the same.
@Kidsandliz @PHRoG
KN-95 is a Chinese standard. The Korean equivalent is the Korea 1st Class standard.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/whats-the-difference-between-n95-and-kn95-masks/
@Kidsandliz, Screw Irk!!
@katbyter @Kidsandliz, I’ve seen worse!!
@bdb @Kidsandliz @talv0002 thanks for the updated info everyone…it’s been awhile since I’ve looked into it.
@katbyter @Kidsandliz @Narwalt i think the approved ones will have two straps around the back of the head, not ear loops. The counterfeit list is if a niosh number is there but is a false number or reused from a different manufacturer. From the picture, these are ear loops without a niosh number. I don’t think they will be on any list.
For smoke use, i think the recommendation is to use a two strap one too, not ear loops.
@katbyter @Narwalt @quimming There is the NIOSH list and then there is the FDA testing of foreign and domestic masks for filtration levels. I was talking about particle filtration testing (which include both ear loop and tie straps masks claiming to be RN or PN 95) not the NIOSH list.
The FDA was testing non NIOSH masks because of the shortage of N95 masks so that if medical facilities were forced to use one of these over having nothing, they at least new which ones were made of materials that matched the filtration level of the N95 AND had consistency in manufacture. Some were all over the map some the results were very close to each other (eg consistent), some were always 95 and better, others tested on both sides of 95…
Ear loop ones are inferior for fitting purposes (eg far more difficult to have them properly fitted) and the majority of ones that have been imported ones have ear loops.
I have read - without a back up of a scientific article that tested this - that adding a tie that goes from the front of the mask attaching to the top side of the earloop and then can be tied on top of the head helps and another one on the bottom tying along the neck end of your head increases the fitting. I also have seen a few clinic people at the local university medical center doing this (and then wearing another disposable rectangular mask over their PN or RN 95 to help keep the outer surface clean) and asked one MD why. That is what he told me. So there may be science behind those extra ties or not. No idea.
BUT if you look at the filtration testing of the mask with respect to the materials used, there is a wide range from acceptable for claiming to be PN or RN 95 and ones with far less filtration than that number implies. Some are so poor that you’d be better off with a cloth mask or other disposable mask.
The FDA list I linked to is the testing of the filtration of the masks regardless of country of origin, and also lists those that failed and counterfeit masks.
The mask being sold here, with the information disclosed, can’t be found on either list. As a result they could be good or suck bricks. We have no idea.
@Kidsandliz The FDA does not certify or approve of respirator masks. Disposable respirators , such as the N95 are approved by NIOSH, a different governmental agency
@bdb @Kidsandliz @PHRoG @talv0002 True.
@TexterTusher Yeah I know. I posted a correction that I was using CDC and FDA interchangeably and shouldn’t have. I didn’t say who NIOSH was other than they approved them. What matters though to me is the lists the agencies create that I linked to with respect to people trying to figure out masks, filtration rates, what is junk and what is not, etc. It would be really nice if there were enough actual real N95’s available that there were enough for all people who both need or want them. Then the junk wouldn’t have much of a market.
5 layers that do what, as compared to 2 or 3 layers? How well do they seal against skin?
I got these off morningsave a while back. Good for when the cloth masks are all in the wash, but I don’t trust them. See those little dashes on them? They’re translucent. I’ll only use them when I’m just popping into the halls of my condo building and back up, not for anything where I think the risk of exposure is higher. (Cases are low in my area, and we’ve had 3 or 4 known cases in my building through the entire pandemic out of a population of ~500 residents.)
@Jamileigh17 I cannot speak specifically about this mask, and I am certainly not a N95 expert, but real, certified N95 masks will also have these same “translucent” “wields” on them. I have some real N95 certified, listed verified N95 (not KN95) masks, and they have this same “feature”. It is where the manufacturing process seals or solidified, or combines, or attaches (cant figure out the correct word!), by using heat, the mask. So, just because a mask does nor does not have those “translucent wields” on them, does not indicate quality or lack of quality.
@BuddTX @Jamileigh17 THIS. As polypropylene mask material is a melt blown fiber, the translucent areas you see are actually solid impermeable plastic melted together to weld the layers.
I wear cloth with an N95 grade filter material in it (made in the USA!) but these might be better than those silly blue paper jobs.
Yes please post the manufacture so I check the CDC site as there are many that don’t pass basic specs.
@meesha71 Aren’t “KN95” the vaguely Asian, and not CDC-certified, specs anyway?
@finalremix @meesha71 Chinese, specifically.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/whats-the-difference-between-n95-and-kn95-masks/
@finalremix the KN95 is the equivalent to the N95 but Chinese certification. The CDC did tests on a bunch of the KN95 and some don’t meet basic standards. I need the manufacture so I can check the CDC research article. Some KN95’s are pretty good.
I have to expect that these are crap, so I resisted buying on morningsave. There is a place on ebay selling them as low as 30 cents each in 1k quantity and it is implausible that those meet real n95/kn95 specs at that price (electrostatic layer etc) since cheap n95’s in that qty were around $1 each before the pandemic. Supposely a simple test is to try to pour water through the mask: if it drips through the mask is no good. I’m trying to work out a more serious test involving a particulate sensor.
@phr Also even more basic is to try to blow out a candle through them (this is a test for disposables) because if you can blow a candle out they aren’t blocking much if any of our breath.
If you cut one apart and put a match to the the filter in the middle it should melt and not flame.
@phr Please post if you work a more serious test out as to what it is?
@Kidsandliz @phr, well, you know farts are the sharpest cut in the world! They cut right through a pair of jeans without so much as tearing a seam!! JSYK!!
@gemgem34 The more serious test would be blow a controlled amount of smoke through the mask and use a dust sensor (like this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4505) to see what makes it through. This article made the news with a fancier approach that I don’t have the resources for: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083.full
Answers?
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/whats-the-difference-between-n95-and-kn95-masks/
@jeffreywsnyder that presumes they actually do what they say they do. The FDA has tested numerous masks and found that many don’t filter to the extent that they claim (not to mention some are counterfeit).
@jeffreywsnyder Here is the most current list
Sept 4th list (scroll down - has both an approved list and an ones that failed list)
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-emergency-use-authorizations-medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-euas#respirators
@jeffreywsnyder @Kidsandliz, the complaint was that the specs did Not mention the brand, nor thy manufacture, Kids!!
@decoratedwarvet @jeffreywsnyder Well yes but then the discussion went down the path of education of folks who knew little about N95’s and non NIOSH ones, the testing of them, the issue of fitting and ear loops vs ties, etc. The entire point of wanting to know the manufacturer (at least with me) so I could look them up on that list to see if they had acceptable filtration levels. So some of this sub part of the thread was more or less why it mattered.
@Kidsandliz Hey, I’ve really gotten a lot of good info from reading this thread, and from your posts. I grok more, thanks. One assertion I’ve read (incl above) is about incorporating these - or even panty hose (?) - as an additional barrier underneath quality cloth masks. I’ve even found some cloth ones with pockets sewn in, to that end. So I’m curious about your take on that (or from the general Meh forum posters). Thanks for reading and thanks for your sincerity.
Regards,
S
@SscoootzZ A number of shop towels have been tested as many of them are made out of non-woven material. The two that tested the best were Toolbox the blue roll and Zep white industrial in a box. Both are cheap.Filtration was nearly as good as a surgical mask. Suggestion was then made to make them as middle layer replaceable filters in masks. I have read adding pany hose over everything, including the sides (eg like a donut and the hole in the middle has your head) blocks a lot of the air leakage in both directions which increases personal protection a bit.
Meh, why not. About the same price as getting them from the local Ace.
/buy
@PHRoG It worked! Your order number is: wailing-grating-engineer
/image wailing grating engineer
@mediocrebot
/giphy wailing-grating-engineer
@mediocrebot @PHRoG You got the KN-1995-Jerry masks
@mediocrebot @PHRoG, is that the late great Jerry Garcia of the Greatful Dead¿?
@decoratedwarvet @mediocrebot yup!
@mediocrebot @phonepole ikr? Talk about a score…wonder how much I can eBay em for?
@PHRoG Very nice random GIF!
Yeah… 5 layers of whut, thoughts & prayers?
Same as the rest - need the company
/giphy mask-of-red-death
@TheMonkeyKing I wanna know where this gif is from?
@Drunkenalien @TheMonkeyKing
Chet Faker, Talk is Cheap
@Drunkenalien @TheMonkeyKing Chet Faker’s video for “Talk Is Cheap”, according to some reverse image searching and some Russian websites with the name “chet” scattered through unintelligible runes, and then a youtube thumbnail:
/buy
What the hell, I always need spares when I forget to move the good Star Trek 5-layer ones I got from a skilled corset maker back to the car after washing.
/giphy fantastical-worrisome-tendency
@guyfromhawthorn What, skilled corset maker? How can I get some of those?
@Lynnerizer apparently she even has some newer pins and designs…when I ordered, she only had TOS style designs and pins.
https://www.facebook.com/corseted/posts/3271853796234724
5-layer face masks? But I only have a 2-layer face.
I’ve been using KN95 masks for going out to the more “dirty” public places (Costco, etc). They are more comfortable (wearing and breathing) than cloth masks and I’m sure they are way more effective than generic blue surgical masks.
As others have said, easy to check with the candle or water test.
@socos Add to that the match test. Proper filers melt and don’t burn. Side note - if they melt this still isn’t evidence they filter at 95 of .3 (or smaller) whatever that unit of measure is of particle size, but ALL that passed that will melt and not flame. So flaming tells you it fails no matter what. Melting does not tell you passes no matter what.
I don’t trust anything coming out of China concerning this virus (and many other things).
@hchavers, the same virus, the SARS CoV-2 virus specifically, is in every nation on earth & JSYK, the coronavirus that hit NYC was from Europe!! Check out where your shirts, ties, and equipment parts are made. Also, ask where your meds are made!!
@decoratedwarvet @hchavers duuuuh were all my of my existing shirts and ties manufactured / handled DURING the pandemic?
You really don’t understand a difference?
@aaronshupp @hchavers, I dare say, I know more than you, or at least as much!! You, my friend, don’t seem to under-fn-stand sarcasm!! Has it been Jan since you’ve purchased a shirt, tie, or an automotive/lawn mower part¿? Whether the item is an OEM part, or a brand name item, they All came from [and were ‘handled’] by someone in a country where the SARS CoV-2 virus IS fn Present!! JSYK, the item is only contamin-ated for 2 -4 hrs to 1-5 days, or for a certain period of time; in any case, it is likely over a month B4 you get your clueless hands on the item!! Duuh!!
Furthermore, when I majored in Biomedical Eng, for required credit hrs I took Sanitary Micro-biology, Food Microbiology, Organic Chemistry, Anatomy & Physiology which may [or may not] give me a leg up on this very dabatable subject!! Duuh!! Please, don’t come back with a, “Well, you don’t impress me!” JSYK, That is hardly my intent, nor is it my fukn desire, but you opened the door!! As far as my credintials, “They Are What They Are!!” A fn quote from your leader,…Mr Cheeto! Actually tRumplethinskin said, “It is what it is,” but you know what I mean; it’s just another way of sayin, “Duuh!”
@decoratedwarvet @hchavers Soooo just an FYI… this has to be the single cringiest thing I have ever read in my entire fucking life.
@aaronshupp @decoratedwarvet @hchavers Maybe but he has a point.
@aaronshupp @hchavers, give yourself some time; your fucking life ain’t over yet!! How about these apples¿ I’ve seen more in 1 day than you have seen in your entire life, and talk about blood curdling cringinous,… there, you are waaay outta your league, Son! Ergo, go back to bed & count your blessings,…then, enter Sandman!!
I still want one of these
@tweezak, Silence of the Lamb masks are sooo awesome!!
POPSOCKETS! ROAD ROCKETS! SONNY CROCKETT! AWESOME!
@mediocrebot, Don Johnson, Scarlett Johanson, Road Kill Possum, Fart Blossom, Face Mask Fantacy Kingdom, how you like me & my johnson now!!
@decoratedwarvet @tweezak
First time seeing one, I must not be lookin in the right places!
@decoratedwarvet @Lynnerizer I only found them because I had the idea and then went looking. Like many great ideas I have, I’m always just a little late to the party.
So, are these made in … China?
/giphy duck and cover
@mike808 Isn’t everything?
The open holes in these make them as useful as teats on a boar hog.
N95 masks are supposed to keep out particles 0.3 microns (Covid19 is 0.1 microns, but is carried through droplets that are larger).
Hospital grade N95’s are and tested for air quality and leaks.
I can’t see where these would do ANY good with holes in them. Large particles can easily get through them.
HARD pass for me!
@Tadlem43
These aren’t n95’s and they aren’t marketed as such. You can easily web search information about them. And those holes aren’t straight up holes, there’s still a layer it’s just not 5 layers. If you’ve ever used one, you would know.
@riftraft KN95 is the China equivalent to the US N95. Even with one or two layers over the holes, they aren’t even close.
I’m a Respiratory Therapist. I know all about masks. Thank you, though.
@riftraft @Tadlem43, yeah, right,… & I’m a Rocket Surgeon & Plastic Scientist, plus, a part time Inhalation Therapist!!
@riftraft We haven’t used the term ‘Inhalation therapist’ since the '70’s. I’ve been in the field since 1972. I’m certified and registered and have only recently retired. You don’t have to believe me. It doesn’t change a thing about my career.
Hope that rocket surgeon thing works out for you.
The holes aren’t holes, they’re heat welds, where the layers of fibers are melted together. They’re supposed to be a solid impenetrable piece of plastic at those points, but tiny pinholes can form at the corners of them, so QA is important.
That said, I’m not the most confident in them as respirators, compared to N95s, due to lax to nonexistant Chinese standards, and the lack of a sealing requirement.
@Tadlem43 Those aren’t open holes.
@decoratedwarvet @riftraft @Tadlem43 professional idiot apparently.
@riftraft @Tadlem43 I didn’t inhale.
@Tadlem43
Why did you reply to the comment I didn’t make? Another user said rocket scientist. Maybe you should get your eyes checked, seeing as how you’re also reading “Korean US equivalent” as also “US approved”
Where is anyone saying these are equivalent to USA n95s?? My point stands, and these masks are not given to health care workers in place of N95s.
@riftraft @Tadlem43, yeah, it does,… at least as much as sarcasm’s suppose to work. In case you’re wondering, I know it’s ‘Rocket Scientist’, but that fuckn sarcastic term hasn’t been used since the 70’s!! Anyway, I had two friends who were fuckn Inhalation Therapists, but haven’t seen them since about 1975, hence the term. So, you say tomato & I say mater; either way, it’s all free speech!! Regardless, I believed you, but I was just fn trying to ruffle your feathers, or rather, your 3M N95 Surgical Mask {I mean, Respitory Therapist Mask}!!
As I mentioneda few weeks back, I purchased Seventy KN95 masks from Wish for $18+$10 shpng, so for $28 I got more than 3Xs what you will pay here should you buy these nose & mouth coverings!! Mine cost 40¢ each; these=$1 ea. They do come from China, so the wait time is close to a fn month. They Are 5 layers & they are FYI white, so even white supremacist can’t whine about the color!!
@decoratedwarvet my kiddo has bought a ton of stuff from wish and… well…it’s been allllll crap or counterfeit. Not sure I’d trust those?
@PHRoG, I buy atuff from Wish, ebay, Amazon & meh & about 95% of the stuff is great, 2% is okay & 3% is crap!! You just have to be very deligent of what yoy buy, and research an item when you can!!
WOW! That was an exhausting read!!
Unless you’re using a legit hospital grade mask, wearing any mask to stop Covid is like using a chain link fence to stop mosquitos. The best you can hope for is that it reduces your viral exposure so that you only have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic.
The best way to avoid the Covid is don’t sneeze and cough in people’s faces, keep your distance from other people, don’t touch your mouth, nose, and eyes, and WASH YOUR HANDS.
The worst masks you can wear are reusable cloth masks. The woven fabric has holes the size of the Grand Canyon (compared to the size of the Covid).
@sjk3
While GOOD masks won’t meet the protection of an N-95 that is well fitted, they do decrease the amount of virus that makes it past the mask and thus in the air to breath in. That decreases your exposure.
One layer masks and neck gaiter masks are WORSE than other masks because research has documented that they actually break up the particles that are carrying the virus into smaller particles and stay hanging in the air longer. That makes them dangerous to others. Multiple layer tight weave cloth masks and disposables don’t break up the particles into smaller ones. Some cloth masks have fairly decent filtration and some don’t. Depends on the fabric. As a result it is not possible to make a blanket statement about cloth masks, although it is possible to make one about single layer masks and neck gaiter masks.
@sjk3 If you would read doctor recommendations you would see they say using a mask will “help” but the real benefit is an infected person wearing the mask will keep COVID from spreading from breath particles and their cough. Since you can be asymptomatic (not knowing you are infected) or one of those people who say “It’s my allergies” wearing a mask IS effective.
@sjk3, the best way to avoid COVID-19 is by not fn allowing Others to spit, cough, or spit on You!! FYI, coughing, etc, etc on everyone else isn’t gonna help one iota in sparing you from the said virus!! JSYK!!
Can we please have the certificate of conformity/compliance on these? There are a lot of counterfeit masks.
@cthobbit Some of the counterfeit ones also have counterfeit certificates. Up higher is a link to tested masks and those that passed and those that didn’t along with counterfeit ones they have found. I didn’t check that particular link for the counterfeit list but most of the time when they update the “passed” list and didn’t pass list and then a separate list of known counterfeit with photos is also included in the list of links. Obviously the list doesn’t cover 100% of what is out there as all sorts of jokers are getting into the manufacture of “95’s” but they have tested a lot of them and continue to to test them as some factories are getting sloppier as time goes on.
@Kidsandliz Yes, but it’s sometimes easy to spot a fake certificate (like certified by a body that doesn’t certify masks, etc). So I’d want to see it before buying.
@cthobbit with masks I think they are just taking stock photos that came from wherever they bought them rather than actually opening a box/bag and taking a photo of what is in there. So many have several different looking masks in the photos (number of lines of weld, patterns of welds along the top, color up the sides even…) that it is clear they are not the same mask. Even boxes can have photos masks that are different than what is in there (noticed that in my local search for masks where the nose piece stayed bent, gap at the sides wasn’t huge, etc.). I sure wish the photos were of the actual product and everything else - especially with masks as there are so many “generic” with ‘random’ branding/rebranding. With some things that involve safety this, to me, is a big issue.
Wait, standard vs enhanced delivery? When did this start?
@tinamarie1974 right? I haven’t found the answer to this yet. During the last meherathon I tried it on one of the several items that I bought and the item with “enhanced shipping” arrived last?!?
Like 3 days after the others. Sooo, don’t think I’ll be doing that again! I’m in the PNW too.
@tinamarie1974 @thumperchick able to provide some context or link to a post about this?
/giphy thanks in advance
@tinamarie1974, I was wondering about that, too. Does ‘enhanced’ cost more, or what¿?
@decoratedwarvet yes it costs more
@PHRoG @tinamarie1974 I assume it means they send it by a more reliable shipper but it doesn’t go out any earlier. So it would probably come faster than it’s sale mates but not necessarily fast.
@Kidsandliz, I heard dat, but also heard someone say they ordered a few items by Regular Dlvry & one by the Enhanced method & the Enhanced pkg came in last!! It showed up at his delivery address last!! Who Knew!! PAY MORE & GET LESS!! That does sound like a scam that the Chinese dealers would pull off! Those Chinese people are lovely, but the damned Manufacturers & Sellers, Not So Much!! If the items are from the USA, then the same same goes!!
@decoratedwarvet The stuff we buy here are already in meh’s warehouse regardless of who made them. The Chinese have nothing to do with the shipping. The shipper has everything to do with the shipping speed. I had expedited delivery on a box of masks. They came within a week. They were not sent Pitney Bowes. I had some irks take 6+ weeks via PB. It was on meh for using PB to begin with, but it was not on meh for how long PB took.
@Kidsandliz, you successfully read the remarks about China, but selectively [it seems] overlooked the last sentence,… .I assume Your(?) warehouse is in the US. If so, then what I said about the Chinese, also applies to y’all! The member who mentioned the fukn remark about that ‘Enhanced’ delivery did so in this session, but you can scroll the comments to find out who it was, I’m certainly not gonna bother with that ordeal. I would like to know though why it takes about a fn month for some deliveries & 5-7 days for others if they All come from that same warehouse!¿ Why not simply use the fastest & the less expensive Shipper¿? BTFW, I purchased a Clutch w/Pully on ebay, and the Seller shipoed it via Fedex & it arrived from Cal. in three days & I live near Memphis, Tn!! JSYK!! I just recived a set of nice cuff-links from Munster, Indiana via USPS & they took 4 days, so you tell me, What Am I Missing¿?
@decoratedwarvet Seems to me you need to discuss this with meh support. I don’t work there and have no insight into why they do their shipping the way they do.
@Kidsandliz, my bad! I misunderstood your first sentence in your comment. I took it to mean you Were support when you said, “The stuff ‘We’ buy here are already in meh’s ware-house!” In other words, “The stuff [here in the warehouse] we [the staff] buy here are already in meh’s warehouse!” You though meant, “The stuff [for sell] we [the customers] buy [from meh] are already in meh’s warehouse!” I Totally thought ‘Why is a staffer replying to me’ ¿? There’s more than one way to skin a rat & i skinned it the wrong way!! LOL!! Again, My Bad!!
@PHRoG @tinamarie1974
Generally, standard shipping is Pitney Bowes/Newgistics and enhanced is Fedex SmartPost. (Not always, but usually.)
This started a few weeks back.
@PHRoG @Thumperchick I haven’t purchased anything with the option. So is there a different fee structure/choice? Is that how it works?
And thanks
@PHRoG @tinamarie1974 If enhanced shipping is available for an item, you’ll see a $1.99 optional upgrade fee during checkout. This fee is on top of any membership and regular shipping fees.
@PHRoG @Thumperchick thank ya ma’am!
I recently bought these: https://bonafidemasks.com/Powecom-kn-95/
10 masks for $1.99 each, 20 for $1.70 each, etcetera. Basic shipping is free, and mine came in about 8 days.
The Powecom masks ARE on the September 4 approved list.
@MrNews I have some of these too. Researched the heck out of them (since I have an immune system cancer affecting the part that fights viruses) working backwards from the ones that were consistently on the approved list. Many were only selling to medical facilities, but some, like this company sell to anyone.The link here goes to one of their two distributors/resellers for the USA (I found them listed on the Chinese website where they listed their distributors; there is a west coast distributor too, shipping is quick though for the one linked to) for the Chinese company. The anti-counterfeit stickers checked out as well (have a scan bar you check out on their website).
Here is a link to the CDC list of counterfeit masks (this list is not 100% inclusive because the number of them are growing and they do update it regularly).
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/usernotices/counterfeitResp.html
Here is the link to the CDC lists of of approved masks - there are multiple lists for different kinds of respirators so pick your link from the list. For example there are ones temporarily approved by the FDA as use of surgical masks (in my earlier posts I have been using CDC and FDA interchangeably and thus less carefully than I should have been doing), ones NIOSH approved at N95’s, etc. (there are a number of lists specific to a specific mask use and kind).
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/default.html
This link (then scroll down and click again) is of the TESTING OF MASKS and is NOT part of the NIOSH approval process, nor can manufacturers use this testing to claim anything. But on these lists you can look up a specific mask and see the results of testing to see how the mask itself filters with respect to particle size (that is NOT the same as testing to see if a mask is properly fitted so don’t confuse the two).
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/NonNIOSHresults.html
@Kidsandliz And it’s important for people to understand that the EUA is authorizing use as a substitute for an N95 in this crisis where for some utterly insane reason we still aren’t switching over industries to mass production of PPE how the fuck is this nation so fucking stupid.
Fuck.
But I digress.
Even if these aren’t valid N95 substitutes, they may still be of similar value as cloth or other masks, in terms of providing a reduction in the amount of exhaled virus that enters shared space. And, if the issue is the seal (which is a lot of what qualifies N95), you may be able to augment that with better elastic, foam tape, or even double sided fabric tape.
Plus, it will help disguise your identity when you finally break and punch an anti-masker square in their plague-hole.
I was hoping to cancel my orders, a page on meh said the forums were where to post. For the love of all that’s holy, someone please cancel my order!
@urseelye You need to contact support and flag someone like @thumperchick if you are posting on the forums.
@Kidsandliz @Thumperchick Where is support located, is it this forum or somewhere else?
@Kidsandliz Also, how do I flag someone? Is that the @ symbol?
@urseelye go to the top of this page, go under “what is meh” and you will find the support link.
@urseelye, Just Refuse To Accept The Pkg When It Is Delivered & It Will Return To Sender!! When It Returns To Sender, Then The Seller Who Took Your Money Has To Refund It, Or You Can Get Your Bank To Dispute The Charge!! All of this will take time, but these days, we all have loads of time, so…
Lotta crazy in the comments today.
@apLundell, it’s China’s fault!! As for us, we’re always crazy,… on purpose!! JSYK!! WAAHA, HA, HA, HA, HA!!
More Crap from China !!
Since I don’t really care about C19 (call me stupid but I don’t have any comorbidity factors) how would these be against smoke and pollution? I live in the PNW that is currently burning to the ground and something better than cloth masks might be worth having. Of course, by the time these arrive we’ll probably be dealing with mud slides and floods, but whatever. TIA
@tweezak stupid
@tweezak It’s not just about you and your comorbidities. It’s about infecting others.
@tweezak I’m not going to lecture you on COVID-19 but I’d strongly encourage you to reconsider your stance on this.
That being said… yes, N95 respirators (and similar ones, like KN95’s) are the only kind of mask that actually protect you from the most harmful elements of wildfire smoke. They regularly go out of stock, at least in California, during wildfire season, even when there isn’t a pandemic.
Something you may already know but I think it’s worth emphasizing regardless: These masks only protect you from wildfire smoke effectively if they fit properly. So if you have a beard, for example, then a KN95 respirator is not going to be any more effective than a regular mask, because your beard will prevent the mask from having a good seal.
@d Thanks, D, for the sensible reply. I guess I should say that since everyone has basically said these won’t do anything for C19 I wouldn’t bother with them for that reason. My question was more around if they would help with wildfire smoke when I wanted to be out in my yard/garden (not around others). I should have also said I’m not concerned for myself WRT C19 but I gladly toe the line when it comes to wearing masks and so forth whenever asked to do so even if the ones available to me are likely ineffective (cloth, blue fiber surgical mask).
I do feel strongly about protecting others. I don’t think masks are really effective and for this reason, our church council (of which I am a member) has elected to continue to hold virtual services because so many of our members are older and if infected could easily succumb to the disease and whatever other complicating factors they have (cancer, diabetes, lung disease, heart disease, etc.). If we felt masks, sanitizing and physical distancing were good enough we would have started services back up long ago…but we have decided it’s just not worth the risk.
Thanks again and I hope my position is a little more clear now.
@tweezak Ah that makes so much more sense. I apologize for misunderstanding your perspective on this – especially because it sounds like we’re actually in agreement.
@tweezak also in the PNW and I can vouch for KN95s working very well in the current 350+ particulate hazardous air we’re having.
This was from yesterday working outside for a little over an hour:
@PHRoG Nice! Are you sure you didn’t just faceplant in the dirt?
Seriously, that’s good to know. I’m right in the heart of the mid-valley and our air quality rating was over 440 this weekend. We stayed inside and watched TV.
Looking at your picture…it’s really interesting that the heat-staked dimples on the right appear really dirty suggesting that they allow more airflow than the mask material in general. The ones on the left are probably not visible from the angle but I bet they are similarly brown.
@tweezak hahaha, yup, no faceplanting here! Regarding the staining, no, those are solid weld points that don’t have any air flow at all. That’s why it’s looks concentrated near them. No air flow means no staining as air isn’t moving through them but instead around them.
@d @tweezak At least that’s better than our church, which seems to be taking the trump line: masks don’t work, covid isn’t that bad, if I die from it, it’s god’s will etc. I think they quietly had in person services for a couple of weeks into it not being allowed. Probably a majority of the membership and nearly all the leadership is elderly, or diabetic, or organ transplant patient or other relatively high risk health factors.
@tweezak, try the Enhanced Delivery!! Yeah, that’s the ticket!!
@PHRoG So those “weld points” are the same brown color on an unused mask? It just seems like the wrong color for fused synthetic fibers.
@d @kevinrs I run the church website (immanuelalbany.org) and we’ve been putting services/sermons online in audio format ever since our church was burglarized and all the audio equipment was stolen. Truly a blessing in disguise since we got a much more capable sound board, computer and software out of our insurance. That was when we developed the capability to record and put online.
We realize that people really want to get together and see their friends. But, like Trump, we don’t think masks do much so we fear it’s a false sense of security to bring people together with the implication that they will be safe as long as everyone wears a mask. Even physical distancing is no guarantee. We have some very frail people and if our desire to rush back to live services cost someone their life we would never forgive ourselves. That’s how I presented it to the council and they agreed.
Have a great day and be well.
In for a set. Thanks, everyone, for the dialogue in the forum today. Stay safe
portable-bulbous-grasshopper – I went with my own find, I didn’t understand the Giphy random one
Why does Irk look like he has a duck bill under that mask?
For those who want confirmation, if you look at the bottom left of the main pic, you can see the back of the package where it says non- medical and “made in china”. I think it’s rather odd that they did not bother to capitalize China, and wonder if these are actually knock-offs of Chinese made filters . . . but who would be making them?
@Thumperchick I’m sorry, I don’t know how to contact support and was told you could assist - I’ve been trying to cancel my order
@urseelye I see you were able to get that order canceled.
Thank you to the staff!
They can be worse than the crap 250
Masks I got from Meh. The elastic tears off of every single one.
One Final Note that I would like to mention is: I use to be an owner/ operator of an Auto Paint & Bodyshop, or rather co-owned until my Dad passed. When I refinished an auto with acrylic lacquer, or arylic enamel [not a basecoat/ clearcoat, nor a urethane system which require more extensive protective measures] I used a 3M(paint) respirator. These do have [exhalation valves], but they can & are worn more than 1 time before those filters have to be R/R (remove/replace). The 3M Respirator is a great alternative, or even a better alternative to the regular particle masks, the KN95 masks, or even the N95 surgical masks!! JSYG(uys)K!!
@decoratedwarvet The trouble with masks with valves is that apparently they are designed to just protect you and not protect others (obviously with you painting the risk is just to you). One of the points of wearing a mask for covid is to protect others. They’d be good protection for you but they’d do nothing for others who then would be exposed as if you weren’t wearing a mask. Some medical facilities around here have banned them for everyone (employees and visitors) because of that.
Absolute garbage. Where the heat seal the mask together some are melted too much and as a result are holes
@usabaker Cover/fill the holes in gel superglue. Not the most elegant solution out there but that at least creates an air leak proof solution.
@Kidsandliz The fact that this company can’t assemble the mask correctly puts the entire mask quality, design, and effectiveness in question. Besides, I should not have to “fix” something I ordered as a new. I might as well stick a sanitary napkin to my face.
@usabaker Well that’s right, we shouldn’t have to fix something sold as new that is defective. Defective crap shouldn’t be sold even on meh. There is a second, in my opinion, more important problem with these to begin with which is why I didn’t buy.
If the mask hasn’t been tested and isn’t on the CSC list of those that passed, you are likely not getting something of the “fill in the blank on the initials”-95 masks filtration level anyway. You’d hopefully be getting, at the minimum, something better than using a bandana, neck gaitor or one layer of fabric mask. As a result filling in melt holes with super glue would make no practical difference. Yeah crap quality if they melted things too much and you now have holes and even have to buy superglue, again shouldn’t have been sold to begin with. But since these don’t even have enough information on the packaging in English to identify them enough to see if they are even on the “list” of masks that are N-95 equivalent with respect to filtering with the material used, these are definitely of the buyer beware category.
I have found a decent N-95 equivalent masks - Powecom (the Harley on the url right now apparently is NIOSH approved - I haven’t checked that claim though), which have continuously been on the CDC lists of ones that passed since last May. The url is for an approved distributor of the powecom masks (found them on the chinese manufacture’s website of approved distributor’s list) :
https://bonafidemasks.com/face-masks/
I bought a bag of 10 of the ear loop kind (all they had in stock at the time I bought or I likely would have bought a bag of 10 with two straps since it is easier to get them to seal better). The one I have used so far appears to be well made, the nose piece holds up well, ear loops have not pulled out and I have had far less glasses fogging than most masks I have tried. Of course it is almost impossible to properly fit ear loop ones without making modifications so we aren’t going to get maximal filtering to protect us like a properly fitted N-95 does rather than just protect others from us like non XX-95 masks do, but since there is relatively little air leakage (you’d need no air leakage for actual N-95 protection when in use) I’d image our own protection is much improved over a regular non-medical blue and white ear loop mask.
My shipment was not delivered and seems to have gone back to TX. Can you advise?
Hi @joelberman you can contact support either through the support form or from your orders page by clicking on the “I need help with this” button after you view the details of the order.
These are terrible. Visible open holes in the seams on all of them.
Wore one the other day and as others said there are open holes where it is fused together. I checked the other masks and they are all that way.
The order I got had many of the thin membrane per mask were just holes. Made this a useless purchase