This is Why I don't buy VMP.

@somf69 I like both Deb and Nancy. For the Record.

@Pavlov maybe @legendornothing lives in a scorpion infested area?

@Stallion
:snarkyOn
i've got a quiz tomorrow, what's 5x6?
:snarkyOff

@fury According to @unixrab, VMP is a gateway drug to impulse shopping.

(Is he okay? I haven't seen him posting much recently...)

@narfcake it's surely a good theory. But there's also free stuff for bring a member. Granted, it's only been a pair of socks so far, but it also supports Meh, which are some pretty neat folks.

I've made enough purchases of stuff that I actually wanted/use to justify it for myself, and I guess that's what matters to me. I may go a month or two without making a purchase, but if I make 2-3 in a month, it pays for itself. All about perspective, I guess.

TL;DR "vmp is a gamble, you don't really get free shipping, and it tempts you to buy things you don't need, but if you like it; cool "

@narfcake @fury It breaks down like this:

1. I have enough hassles to want to remember to cancel VMP - if it auto-canceled, that would be harder to resist. However...
2. ...Just by having VMP - the clock starts ticking for that particular month always aware that to get the benefit of VMP you really have to buy something else, which opens you up to marginal purchases that you may or may not need...but the "lack" of shipping charges (see next point) sways you to make the purchase - as @narfcake illustrates in the the "gateway drug" example. It's a good example.
3. Here's the thing... you DON'T GET FREE SHIPPING FROM VMP - your first purchase you lay out $5 and you get your shipment... granted you are now "in" VMP, but you paid $5 to get your purchase shipped to you... Now when (not if ) you make your 2nd purchase, your first purchase shipping costs go from $5 to $2.50 BECAUSE: You've paid $5 for the month for shipping... as of your second purchase, you've now had 2 things shipped to you for $5 (or $2.50 per shipment) and so the snowball keeps rolling, the more you purchase, the less you've paid per shipment - the caveat is that meh.com is not selling these things for a loss... they've given you an incentive to purchase more things for more profit by the VMP lure. .. BUT!
4. ... Not everything costs exactly $5 to ship... some of the crap that people snag because it's VMP bait (things they wouldn't buy if they had to pay an additional $5 shipping) some of those things are small trinkets, light stuff like shirts or a small battery-powered 1Lumen lantern etc...those things are a.) small and b.) light weight - and you've paid $5 initially to cover all the profit-making items that get shipped to you for 30 days.... so as an extreme: You purchase TEN things from meh - you've subsidized the shipping to the tune of $5 for all those and that equals $0.50 per package... ANY item (like an led lamp) that can be shipped for $0.50 is covered, plus the profit of the item built in.

In short - it exists to make money - for the most part, I believe it DOES, however I do realize there are some items that VMP loses money for meh.com. And don't forget what I've always said: "I would be VMP if meh.com sold more than 2 items each month that are attractive/useful/fun for me. Currently, the lineup of offerings has been ...well... "meh" ... if the quality/usefulness of the items goes UP (more woot than meh) ...I'd certainly have no problem covering all the shipping for $5/mo...right now that ratio is not beneficial to me. So... I believe that $5 is a fair price to pay for shipping and I happily pay it each time I order from woot/meh/newegg/wherever - it makes me think if I REALLY want the darn thing which serves as a stop-gap against frivolous purchases that would otherwise be tempting VMP bait. ALL THAT BEING SAID: If you don't mind canceling and re-upping and you have the internal fortitude to resist VMP bait AND you like supporting meh.com and playing the VMP game of who really lost money (you or them)... go for it. I will become VMP when I want to buy more than 1 thing per month on average.

@narfcake re: frequency of posting: Meh has become pretty boring since the @snapster mandated (and @jonT implemented) crack down on the fun banter in the product page - some people (usually old-skool Internet users from the beginning (PRE-AOL!) enjoy it... newer net users don't get it or appreciate it and whine about it. forums were fun now they aren't as much. The stuff that's interesting (again to me only, it's just my opinion and I'm not casting aspersions) I participate in. ...that or if I get to harass @cengland0 and/or eff with @jont or troll The Internet's Biggest Troll (aka @snapster) ;-) Basically it used to be (to me) THE place to be at 11:59pm EST ... now it's just "i'll put it on the rotation to check along with everyname.woot.com etc.

@unixrab Regarding #3, I think you got it wrong. You really do get free shipping. First, you buy something and, instead of paying $5 for shipping, you pay the same $5 for VMP. So consider that you bought something and then paid for shipping. If you buy something else later in the month, you get free shipping on that item.

Regarding #4, you apparently haven't shipped too many items recently. How much would it cost you to buy an empty box, pay someone to pack it for you, and then ship it across the USA? Due to the volume Meh ships, they probably get a break on the shipping rates but it is still expensive.

For the latest box that I got, at 3 pounds, the USPS charges $8.62 to ship from Texas to Florida at the cheapest option. http://postcalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?m=6&p=3&o=0&dz=32073&oz=75006&dpb=0&mdt=2015/04/06%2008:00# That does not include the price of the box and labor.

@cengland0 IIRC, @snapster said with Woot, they helped getting Smartpost off the ground, so they have much better rates. It's a reason why they were able to sell AA shirts at $10 shipped.

(I'll happily take $15 shipped these days!)

@unixrab My purchases have been pretty low here recently too, but it's not a reason for me to drop it. The included shipping will be there if I need it, and if not, I'd get my money back anyways.

(Good to know you're still around.)

I think you got it wrong

@cengland0 Regarding Number 3, First of all stop thinking. Second: there has NEVER been any month that you've received purchases from meh.com that you also haven't spent AT LEAST $5 on shipping. ... said another way: IF you got any package from a purchase from meh.com THEN you gave them at least $5 to get it to you. Now.. you can call that $5 "shipping" or you can call it "a membership in the semantics stupidity club" you still paid for shipping.

@narfcake Thanks! I hear ya... you're a stronger VMP than me. ;-)

@unixrab "stop thinking". Okay then, I'm sure you got it wrong. Feel better?

There has never been a month where I bought less than 2 items. Even if I only bought one item, I would still keep my enrollment in VMP.

@cengland0

There has never been a month where I bought less than 2 items. Even if I only bought one item, I would still keep my enrollment in VMP.

my statement is still true and irrefutable.

IF you made purchase from meh.com in a given month

THEN you paid at least $5 over and above the first purchase's price for shipping.

@unixrab You still don't get it. If I have to pay $5 for shipping and VMP costs $5 and comes with free shipping, it is only logical to pay for VMP. There is a potential savings if I make additional purchases throughout the month and, if not, I didn't pay anything extra for VMP.

@cengland0 I do think you're underestimating the power of #2 from @unixrab . It's very much the same concept behind Amazon Prime. Those damn items with the big blue "Prime" label are oh so tempting to buy because I know they'll ship for free and get here in 1-2 days :-)

@billymayfield I've mentioned this before but I don't mind repeating it here.

It's only a problem for people like @unixrab who has a weak mind and cannot control their spending. Some of us use logic when making buying decisions and we do not have a problem with #2.

To be clear, there are some items that are offered that wouldn't be a good deal if you had to pay $5 shipping. If you are a VMP member and can get it for free shipping, it makes it worthwhile. Most of those are cheap items that would normally cost more to ship than the item costs. Nobody would buy that if they had to also pay for shipping. This should not be misunderstood as making an impulse buy on something you don't want or need just because the shipping is free.

@cengland0 I think I fall into the "weak mind" category, but I gladly embrace my VMP instead of fighting it like @unixrab. I agree with both your points and now realize that I was missing out on the history behind this discussion

@cengland0 Of course the shipping isn't actually completely free. They have factored in to the price the cost of shipping (well except fukus) with X percent having VMP and the likelihood of Y% of X buying. And of course if shipping is likely to be more than 5 bucks tacked that on to the price as well.

@unixrab When I saw a wall of text with blockquotes and bolded text, I knew it was you. Hai.

@Thumperchick

wooooot! ;-)

a man has to have style ;-) I'm glad you commented!

@Kidsandliz don't bother @cengland0 with logic and facts... those things confuse him. Let him go on believing that he's somehow getting "free" shipping.... and he's stickin' it to tha man - were we to shatter his imaginary world where some dumb company magics the cost of shipping away into nothing, he might not be able to handle that reality and could end up in an institution babbling about all the money he really honestly magically saved. Poor poor man. weak mind indeed.

@fury if you had been vmp longer you would have gotten some othet Meh. logo stuff

@unixrab i think i just pressed ctrl-z after such an eloquent oratory, grrrr, anyway,

i'm impressed by the amount of time you have put into the VMP analysis. bottom line - you can choose to pay $5 each shipment to avoid the impulse buys. go ahead, try it just once and you'll be sorry on purchase #2.

on the other hand, prolly nearly 1/2 of my buys are impulse buys, and i have the cancelled orders to prove it, but admitting this is the first step in my 12 step program.

it does make shipping random gifts to family nice though since shipping is free!

Meh. on...

@cengland0
I have a weak mind.
Please use The Force on me.

@f00l ewwww You'll regret that!

@unixrab
Naw....feels good.

@f00l

@unixrab Even if you are buying one item per month, it is still better to have VMP. You're paying the same amount but then also get the other VMP membership benefits. The only time I wouldn't recommend it is if you do not buy anything at all.

@cengland0 and then you can get your $5 back ;)

@cengland0 you say "benefits" I say "annoyances"

@unixrab You are annoying.

@cengland0

@unixrab Maybe I'm confused. If I want something bad enough to pay $5 to ship it here then I've recognized that's all I'm guaranteed to get for my my $5. If I can check a box that would mean I don't have to pay that $5 next time, how is that not free shipping on my next order? I didn't decide I had to buy anything else to get my $5 worth. I knew when I made the first purchase that the shipping for that purchase was all I was really getting. Maybe I'm not like others who think they should buy it simply because they don't have to pay shipping? on a related note do you feel the same way about Amazon's Prime shipping? I know it includes other stuff and is very much a better "deal" than VMP but the idea is the same.

@RedHot The gist of my point is that "there's nothing free in life" If something costs something those costs have to be paid. If meh.com is losing money on each transaction, it's logical to assume that when @snapster's money runs out, the site will fold, since they would essentially be operating at a loss and that's not sustainable forever.

If we assume that meh.com is NOT operating at a loss and making a profit, those shipping costs are built in somewhere. My contention is: the cost of VMP does help offset shipping costs throughout the month. Coupled with the profit built into the original product purchased and the extra $5 paid out to VMP that is how shipping cost is offset. Now add into the mix the additional impulse purchases and/or VMP "bait" (as I call it), the additional sales (with accompanying additional profit) again contribute towards the cost of shipping... VMP exists to lure people to buy more than they would normally...that helps toward shipping too. [ sidenote: if meh.com can ship 6000 1lumen lanterns at a cost lower than $5 that's additional profit to be built into the back end of the month to offset shipping]

If it's not as I describe above, then meh.com will eventually fold due to operating at a loss.

The one thing I can't account for is the ratio of VMP's to non-vmp purchases/purchasers:

If the majority of people do not take advantage of VMP then it could be that we who pay shipping each time are subsidizing the VMP'ers ... it probably has to be that way, or again meh.com will run out of money in the opposite situation where there are more VMP'ers than non-VMP transactions. I guess we'll see - especially if there are modifications to the VMP program. [Incidentally: I also cannot account for the possibility that there are idiots out there who have signed up for VMP, forgotten that they've signed up for it, and are giving meh.com $5 for the rest of their lives and not buying anything! Far fetched, but possible I suppose] It all remains to be seen in this little experiment.

Re: Prime:

I think that's an apples to oranges comparison. Prime's shipping is different (2day vs meh.com's uh... "variable" shipping (could be 7 days could be 3 weeks).

Also where as Amazon has over 5 million items for sale (and many household products) The two sites cannot be compared there either.... There's only around 417 total possible items for sale at meh.com and those are only once per day (two items on Tuesday). Where meh.com sells niche, random sale items, Amazon sells 5 million items that are needed/wanted by the consumer. I would say Prime is like an online Costco or Sam's club, where the membership fee pays for itself in convenience and item cost savings. I doubt VMP pays for itself in 30 days.

@unixrab I vaguely remember that @snapster said in one of the multitude of VMP threads that the number of VMPs is too high for his business model.

@sammydog01 I suspected as much.

@unixrab re re prime: does not VMP pay for itself upon the first purchase of the billing cycle? it would be $5 to ship, instead, it is $5 to VMP.

@sammydog01 you are correct up until that time that @snapster said it— not sure of the ratio now, but up till that point ... VMP WAS a negative not a positive.

@connorbush hmmmm — trying to decide if I should I rehash this?? @cengland0 @thumperchick

@unixrab We love hash.

@unixrab Has anything happened to change your view? Or do you feel like time may have brought more people to your line of thoughts on this?

@Thumperchick @unixrab holy geeze I did not realize how old this thread was when I commented LOL face-palm it was listed toward the top of the forum and I read the entire thread w/o seeing the April date. 'toats would have passed on through had I seen the date. did not intend to stir the coals.

@connorbush sometimes coal stirring is useful. We haven't had a good ol' VMP pros and cons debate in a while - maybe we're due?
Also, you didn't necro this thread. @ComputerMD82 did, below.

@Thumperchick Thank goodness--I tried to leave my necrophilia days behind me with the worm videos.

@connorbush The Walking Thread

@connorbush @thumperchick

@KittySprinkles how about now? Still feel the same?

@ComputerMD82 What is that smell? Could it be the eight-month-old topic you dug up?

Looked at another way, the moment you start buying more than one item a month you start spending more money, not less, since you are buying more.

(It annoys me when people say, for example, you save money when you buy two for a dollar instead of one for a buck fifty, because that's absolutely false. You've spent fifty cents more. You may have be getting a better value, but you are only saving if you intended to buy two in the first place.)

The problem some see with VMP, and it's tugging at me, is that it makes it easy to think, "What the hell? It's eight bucks" and order stuff I wouldn't have if the price with shipping had been thirteen dollars (with the "getting my money's worth out of VMP" thing playing a minor role).

I'm not saving money with VMP. I am spending more. I have things I would not have bought otherwise.

I don't regret buying much of it, but I am absolutely not saving money.

@craigthom this

@ComputerMD82 it's good for the forum, keeps it aerated and allows new things to grow.

@thismyusername Like manure. :) Don't feel bad @ComputerMD82 I've done the same thing myself. And this topic is really never ending.

@sammydog01 @thismyusername sings This is the thread that doesn't end...

@ComputerMD82 It goes on and on my Friend
:)

@legendornothing

••
—

@mfladd This was posted in April. Zombies arise!

@mfladd yes..he is doing so welll....this was a necro thread! You have to believe, my friend...

@sammydog01 Oh crap! So he is still good. Phew! So much for me checking dates. Glad the kid is still on track. And thank you for correcting me.

@mfladd but... But... I didn't...

@mikibell I want too!
@legendornothing

Keep up the good work! Only 3 more weeks.

@legendornothing I was just thinking about it yesterday...you are doing great..very proud of you!

@mikibell I'm proud of @legendornothing, too.

@mfladd let us consult the mehcronomicon.

"For he that shall invoke me without checking the thread date, shall suffer the pain of a thousand paper cuts while bathing in salt. So say we all."

@carl669 I accept the punishment, so mote it be.

That's one. Damn, this is going to be a long night.

@mfladd The rest of them won't be on your finger.

@hallmike Oh Shit.

@mfladd and I got all excited and was all ready to get my pitchfork out. @carl669, does it say anything about pitchforks?

p.s.@mfladd I totally understand how this happens and I've done the same and felt super duper embarrassed. I still blame it on the forums for letting topics like this rise up out of the blue when someone comments. But maybe that's part of the fun (accidentally or not)?

@luvche21

@sammydog01

@nadroj it felt new to me, just like having ALZ maybe? i've lived through that, you can use the same joke every 5 mins and it's always like you just made it up...

@DMlivezey everything Old is new again :-)

@f00l this

@mick ask for forgiveness and they will you give you the $5 buckaroo, even if you're late in remembering ;) (unless you're a jerk)

@DMlivezey I, of course, did not know this!! Thank you kind person! :)

@mick meh

@narfcake I thank you for your support. Unfortunately I was not a very good goat. Hopefully I will never have to do that again.
But feel free to blame me for whatever in the future.

@narfcake
:-)

@Teripie You took on the responsibility, yet did little work. That sounds just like what a goat here would do!

@narfcake @teripie exemplary goat

@unixrab WHY

@DrunkCat why what?

@unixrab This is like a year old.

@DrunkCat sooo you forgot?

@somf69 YES!

@somf69 I will buy VMP soon I just need to wait for the right moment

@legendornothing beware

@cranky1950 automatically?

@unixrab If by "automatically" you mean that you can set a reminder for yourself and then go to your account and manually cancel your VMP... then sure! Once that's done, the refund part is automatic.

@Thumperchick ;-) um no

@mikey fight!!! don't give in! free yourself from the tyranny of VMP!!!

@unixrab That sounds like more work than I'm willing to invest.

@unixrab Some day you will have a V in front of your name.

Only if he changes it to Vunixrab

@dashcloud Considering meh.com has only offered 5 moderatly interesting things that I've purchased (and I'm pretty sure 3 of those were Fuku's (until I learned my lesson on those) .... uh....

@hallmike

@mikey

@unixrab you could use Thunderbird.

@caffeine_dude eh?

wha?

@MrGlass

@MrGlass

@unixrab Not even the cool new command parser that accepts Unix-style arguments?

@dashcloud it can’t even parse simple HTML!

<a href=“http://www.shoddy.com”>Shoddy.</a>

Just look at that! That SHOULD be Shoddy. but it isn’t…it’s just foobared.

@unixrab I thought you were an accomplished programmer- Mediocre would happily merge your pull request to fix this grievous oversight

@unixrab

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@dashcloud

@thismyusername

…wait

@ELUNO the bottomless coffee cup that charges you for itself regardless of whether or not you drink any coffee each month

@unixrab My VMP is far less expensive than the wife’s monthly coffee expenses

@compunaut are factoring in the impulse buys (VMP bait)

@unixrab I think I’ve spent $53 on 10 items since last November; didn’t even have VMP for my first purchase ($15 quad copter to give as a Christmas gift)
/giphy quad copter for Christmas

@compunaut that’s moderately disturbing