@nexus323 Mars. Supreme Misleader wants to send disposable minions to Mars. Yes, there’s an atmosphere. No, the highest winds that happen on Mars could not blow your tent down; the mass is too low to have enough inertia. (Andy Weir admits that he took an essential liberty with this in The Martian.)
Gosh, a vehicle with an increased mass can upset and overtop a barrier designed to deflect a less kinetically energetic projectile, who knew? (If memory serves, this will be at least the fourth time that the increasing massiveness of new vehicles will have mandated changes in the designs of highway safety structures.
Hmm, gotta wonder what that means for structures like bridges and stacked parking garages if/when EVs are more plentiful on the roads. Maybe there will be lighter batteries available by then…
@macromeh Some discussions are already underway concerning whether lithium-battery EVs should be allowed to use and/or be charged inside of parking garage structures. Recent major fires in several widely separated locations have highlighted the fact that although the probability of an incident is very low with the current EV vehicle population size, the damage can be severe. That will get worse as more of them enter the in-service fleet and begin to age. Also, at some point we will start to see battery fires resulting from improper repairs, as the aftermarket ramps up its capability to supply (often inferior) spare parts for them. At present, they seldom make sense from a purely economic standpoint because of numerous gotchas that cause them to have a high real cost per mile for many users.
@macromeh@werehatrack nahh… aside from significant impacts to the batteries, fire risks are lower than gasoline cars. They make great sense in states where electricity is fairly cheap and folks can charge at home. My Tesla costs $0.025/mi to drive, my 45MPG diesel VW costs at least $0.08/mi; Our gasoline cars that get 30MPG cost about $0.10/mi; That saves roughly $10000-15000 over the course of 200,000 miles; Factor in more expensive services needed on gas/diesel cars, including transmission service, emissions equipment, increased brake usage/replacement, etc, and EVs are still a winner if you plan to run them a while. I’ve done almost nothing to my 2018 Tesla in the 6 years / 110K we’ve had it, except for warrantied work on control arms, washer fluid, and tires.
@macromeh@werehatrack My non Tesla paid for itself in about 3 years on gas savings and added electric cost. Less in repairs and maintenance was a bonus. That said, how you use the vehicle matters. It was perfect for my situation. I am car shopping and will probably choose another electric vehicle.
@macromeh@speediedelivery@werehatrack I’m trying to work this out…
Real sloppy, I think the cheapest electric vehicle in the US is the Nissan Leaf at about $28000. It’s comparable to an ICE Nissan Versa at about $20000, so $8000 difference.
If gas is $4 per gallon and you get 40 miles per gallon, and electricity is free, you’d need to drive 80000 miles for it to pay for itself over the Versa.
I’m using generous numbers, and that’s actually a much smaller delta than I was expecting, but that’s still a lot of driving in three years.
I looked at the Ford F-150. The mileage is half that of the Versa, but the price delta for electric is about double, so it still works out about the same.
@Limewater@macromeh@werehatrack I purchased in 2013 with $10k Mitsubishi rebate, $7,500 federal rebate and $3k state rebate. My cost was under $10k. I added $30 per month for electric which is what my bill went up. I was driving a poor gas mileage jeep at the time spending $60-75 per week in gas. I lucked out on that car.
Now not so much. I walk to work and purchase prices are much higher. I keep putting off buying because of the sticker shock. Unfortunately I have to buy something soonish.
@Limewater@macromeh@werehatrack Battery has degraded and issues with charging. Dealer is unable or unwilling to service it. Quoted about $20k for inspection (2 struts installed in about 8 months) and a lithium battery with a 30 day warranty. Ummm, no. Love the car and I would spend money to fix it but I am better off putting it in something newer with better range.
@macromeh@speediedelivery@werehatrack Yeah, I was wondering about range issues. I’ve read that battery management was one of the big weaknesses of early non-Tesla electric cars, particularly the Nissan Leaf. I think they’ve mostly gotten a lot better now. I have a coworker with a 2017 or 2018 Model 3 and he still gets really great range. But his car has a cooling system that just runs on its own on hot days to keep the engine cool.
@Limewater@macromeh@werehatrack Mine started with a range of 62. Not great but for the driving I did then it was perfect. It would charge overnight and be ready to take me to work and any errands for the day. It seems pretty easy to change the cells if you have a place to do it and the tools. I would try it if I had a garage to take it apart. I tried a dedicated message board but nobody was close enough and willing to take on the work. When I asked about the warranty on a replacement battery the dealer was shocked that I would consider it. I would drive that car another 10 years if they would back the battery.
Or go to the moon on a spaceX where guardrails won’t cushion your fall.
@nexus323 Mars. Supreme Misleader wants to send disposable minions to Mars. Yes, there’s an atmosphere. No, the highest winds that happen on Mars could not blow your tent down; the mass is too low to have enough inertia. (Andy Weir admits that he took an essential liberty with this in The Martian.)
Gosh, a vehicle with an increased mass can upset and overtop a barrier designed to deflect a less kinetically energetic projectile, who knew? (If memory serves, this will be at least the fourth time that the increasing massiveness of new vehicles will have mandated changes in the designs of highway safety structures.
@werehatrack I think this is called…change
Hmm, gotta wonder what that means for structures like bridges and stacked parking garages if/when EVs are more plentiful on the roads. Maybe there will be lighter batteries available by then…
@macromeh Some discussions are already underway concerning whether lithium-battery EVs should be allowed to use and/or be charged inside of parking garage structures. Recent major fires in several widely separated locations have highlighted the fact that although the probability of an incident is very low with the current EV vehicle population size, the damage can be severe. That will get worse as more of them enter the in-service fleet and begin to age. Also, at some point we will start to see battery fires resulting from improper repairs, as the aftermarket ramps up its capability to supply (often inferior) spare parts for them. At present, they seldom make sense from a purely economic standpoint because of numerous gotchas that cause them to have a high real cost per mile for many users.
@macromeh @werehatrack nahh… aside from significant impacts to the batteries, fire risks are lower than gasoline cars. They make great sense in states where electricity is fairly cheap and folks can charge at home. My Tesla costs $0.025/mi to drive, my 45MPG diesel VW costs at least $0.08/mi; Our gasoline cars that get 30MPG cost about $0.10/mi; That saves roughly $10000-15000 over the course of 200,000 miles; Factor in more expensive services needed on gas/diesel cars, including transmission service, emissions equipment, increased brake usage/replacement, etc, and EVs are still a winner if you plan to run them a while. I’ve done almost nothing to my 2018 Tesla in the 6 years / 110K we’ve had it, except for warrantied work on control arms, washer fluid, and tires.
@macromeh @werehatrack My non Tesla paid for itself in about 3 years on gas savings and added electric cost. Less in repairs and maintenance was a bonus. That said, how you use the vehicle matters. It was perfect for my situation. I am car shopping and will probably choose another electric vehicle.
@caffeineguy @macromeh @werehatrack
Ditto! What they said! 2018 Tesla ftw!
@macromeh @speediedelivery @werehatrack I’m trying to work this out…
Real sloppy, I think the cheapest electric vehicle in the US is the Nissan Leaf at about $28000. It’s comparable to an ICE Nissan Versa at about $20000, so $8000 difference.
If gas is $4 per gallon and you get 40 miles per gallon, and electricity is free, you’d need to drive 80000 miles for it to pay for itself over the Versa.
I’m using generous numbers, and that’s actually a much smaller delta than I was expecting, but that’s still a lot of driving in three years.
I looked at the Ford F-150. The mileage is half that of the Versa, but the price delta for electric is about double, so it still works out about the same.
@Limewater @macromeh @werehatrack I purchased in 2013 with $10k Mitsubishi rebate, $7,500 federal rebate and $3k state rebate. My cost was under $10k. I added $30 per month for electric which is what my bill went up. I was driving a poor gas mileage jeep at the time spending $60-75 per week in gas. I lucked out on that car.
Now not so much. I walk to work and purchase prices are much higher. I keep putting off buying because of the sticker shock. Unfortunately I have to buy something soonish.
@macromeh @speediedelivery @werehatrack Wow! You got a deal!
If you don’t mind my asking, what factors are leading to you needing to replace it?
@Limewater @macromeh @werehatrack Battery has degraded and issues with charging. Dealer is unable or unwilling to service it. Quoted about $20k for inspection (2 struts installed in about 8 months) and a lithium battery with a 30 day warranty. Ummm, no. Love the car and I would spend money to fix it but I am better off putting it in something newer with better range.
@macromeh @speediedelivery @werehatrack Yeah, I was wondering about range issues. I’ve read that battery management was one of the big weaknesses of early non-Tesla electric cars, particularly the Nissan Leaf. I think they’ve mostly gotten a lot better now. I have a coworker with a 2017 or 2018 Model 3 and he still gets really great range. But his car has a cooling system that just runs on its own on hot days to keep the engine cool.
@Limewater @macromeh @werehatrack Mine started with a range of 62. Not great but for the driving I did then it was perfect. It would charge overnight and be ready to take me to work and any errands for the day. It seems pretty easy to change the cells if you have a place to do it and the tools. I would try it if I had a garage to take it apart. I tried a dedicated message board but nobody was close enough and willing to take on the work. When I asked about the warranty on a replacement battery the dealer was shocked that I would consider it. I would drive that car another 10 years if they would back the battery.
As a Tesla owner and driver I, personally, try not to run into anything.
There’s a lot of science that goes on when it comes to guardrails and crash barriers:
Might be a good plan for all drivers in any vehicle