@Thumperchick@werehatrack Yes. Farmers, especially dairy farmers, hate it. They are forced to stay on “people” time to make delivery deadlines, and the poor cows do not like having their milking time changed.
My favorite part is when office workers use it as an excuse to be late to meetings until like Thursday of the following week. It was a one hour shift three days ago, Brad, get your shit together.
I am 100 percent against daylight saving time. Time zones were chosen based on solar noon. We (society) have the ability to adjust our schedules as we see fit without having to change what our clocks show.
@ItalianScallion This is actually a profound idea - we could just start jobs/school/business hours at 8:00 in the summer and 9 in the winter, or whatever - but NO, instead everyone has to switch over.
I like it, bc here in MI we actually need it. Kids would be going to school in the dark and coming home in the dark, majority of the year without it. It’s nice to have that extra hour of sunlight in the summer and it really does make a difference with SAD in the winter. I get that people on the west coast aren’t effected as much but it makes a huge difference for use in the Midwest and east coast.
It’s also one hour. How hard is it really to adjust to one hour. You’re telling me if you visited somewhere that was one hour behind or ahead you would have that much of a difficult time? It’s just an excuse to everybody.
@Star2236 Well, we could adjust school times. After all, on weekends lots of people adjust the times they get up and go to bed and even by more than one hour.
@Star2236 a lot depends on what you do for a living. Not just where you work/ live. But the other interesting statistic is that traffic accidents climb substantially in the week after a time change. Doesn’t matter which direction it goes. But it has to do with people sleep cycles being screwed up. And the older you get the harder it is. But being a nurse I often had to be at work really early in the morning talk 6:30. So getting up an hour earlier than my usual time at least to my body really was disruptive.
@Cerridwyn@Star2236
Never really understood that accident statistic. Wonder if it was an impact of a sudden change on where the sun was in your face when going into work or coming home. I know there are certain times of the year when I was driving to work early in the morning when it was blinding. Since it came that way gradually it wasn’t too hard to adjust your driving style to it. I could see how suddenly having the Sun straight on in your windshield from one Friday to the next Monday could be problematic for some.
Having had schedules that were all over the map due to working as a nurse in an ER for years as well as EMT in 24-hour cycles it baffles me that people have that much trouble adjusting to flexible sleep patterns.
@Cerridwyn@chienfou@Star2236 when i was in the USAF, most of my squadron had to provide services 24/7 (ATC, electronics maintenance, etc.) so were on rotating shifts (8-4 two days, 4-midnight two days, midnight-8 two days, one or two days off (depending on manning available), then start the cycle over again. We even had midnight breakfast available. i wasn’t on such shifts but my roommate was. Those folks got used to the schedule pretty well and since i primarily hung out with them, so did i. [But we were all pretty young, so that might have made a big difference in adaptability.]
@Cerridwyn@chienfou@phendrick@Star2236 Yeah that was my point (think posted below) about things like military and space operations already needing to work that way (as they have for decades). Or in a submarine, for that matter. (I never did that, but worked with some ex-submariners)
But the other interesting statistic is that traffic accidents climb substantially in the week after a time change. Doesn’t matter which direction it goes.
That’s NOT what the article you linked said…
“The regression analysis showed that the spring time change was followed by an overall crash reduction of 18% during the eight-week period immediately after the time change…”
Again… Hard to factor out the normal change in length of the daylight between equinox and solstice.
Seems like the best control group would be an area with no change for daylight savings time. Can’t really see where those comparisons have been done though.
@chienfou@Star2236 the first time I put what I had always heard. But then I decided to look it up which I found more interesting that it worked the opposite
It’s going to be killer for me this year. I fly to Vegas early sunday morning so when I get there, I’m losing three hours! I’m hoping that my hotel room will be ready early so I can take a nap.
@ironcheftoni
I hear ya!
Having just travelled from HI to Vegas to Atlanta to central AL in the last day I can attest that it can be a bit of a PITA. Especially when your (already scheduled) late arrival gets in 90 minutes late. Nothing like a 3 hour drive after 14 hours of travel time to get home at 0500.
@chienfou@ironcheftoni 3-hour drive at night after several long flights…? At this point I’d say use an airport hotel, get the bad free breakfast, and drive in the light of day.
@ironcheftoni@pmarin
Actually did the research and tried to bail in Vegas where we could have had a decent night sleep etc. Couldn’t get the rest of the squad to buy in to the idea.
In a discussion a few weeks ago I proposed we just standardize in UTC (what used to be GMT) so everybody in the world (and space) uses the same time system. This is already the norm for aircraft and military operations and some banking. No more time zone and “stupid savings time” issues.
Yes the down-side is depending where you live, you may go to work as the Sun comes up at 20:00 and lunch hour would be at what used to be midnight but would be mid-day, or “old noon”
@pmarin
Seems like that would make doing business a bitch.
How do you know WTF relative time it is when you are calling someplace half way round the world?
@chienfou i agree it will never happen for the normal public (i.e. us). Well maybe eventually when in the future we are a spacefaring people.
But if you have worked with distributed sites (as I used to for work) there was always the “what time is it where you are?” thing. and setting a group meeting meant telling everybody it was 9AM PDT or whatever. and… what time will that be where YOU are.
I used to get up very early and check email and sometimes do voice talk with customers and they would ask where are you now, why are you awake? of course I ask that of myself; it’s 4:30 AM EST now where I am. Maybe go back to bed? not sure.
No matter what, the International Date Line will eternally confuse people. How can it be tomorrow there already?
On that topic I’m pretty sure that home internet providers sometimes do server or network updates in the dark hours, often causing 10-20 minute outages. I’ve seen this in 2 different places with different providers. Annoying when that is the time of day you are trying to get things done.
No time change. They have found that with savings time more people have more sleep issues the entire time savings time is in effect because of how light (or lak there of) and timing affects our body and natural cycles.
@jouest@yakkoTDI OK so this is weird: Latest “come in for service” mail with coupons from a VW dealer offers Oil and Filter change as “what your engine craves.”
@jouest@yakkoTDI Starbucks! Yeah, what’s up with their latest rebranding where they show things like actual good-looking strong coffee being made? I thought they had become the $8 milk-shake/“frappucino” company.
to say it’s world confusion is an understatement. we already have a state (I think Arizona) that opted out of it. When I worked with engineers there I had to ask what time they were at for setting meetings because the offset was not consistent.
European countries go to what they call “Summer times” but it’s not the same dates “we” change it (to accept the blame the U.S. changed it multiple times over last few decades). So from Pacific, mostly Western Europe is 9 hours but sometimes it is 8 (or is it 10?)
England (Greenwich!) is usually one hour sooner than that but maybe not always?
Another annoyance about DST. When my mom and I went to Laughlin, NV once. Laughlin is on the Nevada/Arizona border. Arizona doesn’t participate in DST. When flying in, the flight attendant warned me to take my phone’s clock off gps or satellite time otherwise the time would randomly change depending upon what tower it would happen to hit at the moment.
@Cerridwyn@ironcheftoni@jouest Isn’t the river the border between Nevada and Arizona there? Which could mean your phone may jump to a signal from the other side, depending on where you are?
Honestly, I feel it probably depends on your latitude more than anything. Living in the South, I feel like DST year round would benefit us more. (or abandon DST altogether and start work/school an hour earlier year round).
One thing I don’t like is the constant switching. Accidents and deaths spike after time changes.
@OnionSoup In a more Northern area and being an early-morning person, I don’t like the long, dark mornings just after switching in Spring.
And I don’t mind evenings with more light longer, but the further North you are you may be seeing sunset or at least dusk lasting to 10:30 or 11 and In generally go to bed before that. and if I can avoid it, I’m not a “dark curtains” person, or any curtains at all for that matter.
I often hear that it’s convenient for {whatever reason}. (usually “having more daylight after the workday”}
I’ve always felt that changing the clocks was dishonest.
If people want to go into work earlier to get out earlier, that’s great! Good for them! Let businesses post their summer hours and everyone will figure it out. (Especially if everybody’s “summer hours” start and end on the same dates…)
There’s no other situation I can think of where I’m [socially] allowed to pretend I’m in a different timezone than I actually am. But with DST, it’s legally mandated.
Besides, there’s already more daylight during summer. Why are we pretending that our clocks can do it better?
@jouest@xobzoo I heard some bozo (not related to @xobzoo but it’s a good name) say that Daylight Saving Time meant longer days and shorter nights. That does happen in this season as we approach Equinox, and as it has been doing for billions of years, is based on how the earth rotates around the Sun, long before humans decided on an arbitrary number system to represent times of day. And changing the numbers doesn’t make the day longer or shorter.
It gives me a chance to be a real pedantic pain in the ass to people who think EST stands for “Eastern”. Which in turn gives them a chance to say “whatever, dude.”
Also somehow I’m usually early to work the Monday morning after the spring time change but late after the fall one. No idea why.
@mikey My neighbor has solar, I will have to ask him if his clocks change Sunday morning. And we can say let’s go to lunch at 12 noon, oh that would be your 11AM. Oh the restaurant isn’t open for lunch then. Or Do they have solar?
@jouest@Pony It was a bad idea that just seems to be getting badder (not “bad” in a good way) each time this comes up, which is twice a year. Every year. Which is about how often congress actually votes on anything, which apparently this would require, and it continues to remain unresolved.
@pmarin@Pony fun fact: the Senate randomly voted unanimously on this a few years ago at the very end of a session. never went to the House. lobbyists from Big Sun clearly squashed it.
It’s a dumb tradition and only creates confusion for most people. But I’m not a farmer, so maybe it just doesn’t help me?
@Thumperchick Farmers pay attention to the sun, not the clock.
@Thumperchick @werehatrack Yes. Farmers, especially dairy farmers, hate it. They are forced to stay on “people” time to make delivery deadlines, and the poor cows do not like having their milking time changed.
@rockblossom @Thumperchick @werehatrack
We do it backwards, in my opinion. Best not done at all, as far as I’m concerned.
@werehatrack “Nighttime Savings Time”
My favorite part is when office workers use it as an excuse to be late to meetings until like Thursday of the following week. It was a one hour shift three days ago, Brad, get your shit together.
I am 100 percent against daylight saving time. Time zones were chosen based on solar noon. We (society) have the ability to adjust our schedules as we see fit without having to change what our clocks show.
@ItalianScallion This is actually a profound idea - we could just start jobs/school/business hours at 8:00 in the summer and 9 in the winter, or whatever - but NO, instead everyone has to switch over.
Fuck DST
Putting on my “I’m Being Pedantic Today” hat.
It’s actually:
Because I want my savings to be there at night, too.
And if we ended DST, people would stop saying it wrong.
@rockblossom Bravo!!! (from a fellow pedant)
@ItalianScallion @rockblossom Long Live Daylights Saving Times
@jouest Sounds daylightful.
SCREW IT.
@Wollyhop this needs to be peer reviewed
@jouest @Wollyhop
Hard pass…
I like it, bc here in MI we actually need it. Kids would be going to school in the dark and coming home in the dark, majority of the year without it. It’s nice to have that extra hour of sunlight in the summer and it really does make a difference with SAD in the winter. I get that people on the west coast aren’t effected as much but it makes a huge difference for use in the Midwest and east coast.
It’s also one hour. How hard is it really to adjust to one hour. You’re telling me if you visited somewhere that was one hour behind or ahead you would have that much of a difficult time? It’s just an excuse to everybody.
@Star2236 Well, we could adjust school times. After all, on weekends lots of people adjust the times they get up and go to bed and even by more than one hour.
@Star2236 a lot depends on what you do for a living. Not just where you work/ live. But the other interesting statistic is that traffic accidents climb substantially in the week after a time change. Doesn’t matter which direction it goes. But it has to do with people sleep cycles being screwed up. And the older you get the harder it is. But being a nurse I often had to be at work really early in the morning talk 6:30. So getting up an hour earlier than my usual time at least to my body really was disruptive.
@Cerridwyn @Star2236
Never really understood that accident statistic. Wonder if it was an impact of a sudden change on where the sun was in your face when going into work or coming home. I know there are certain times of the year when I was driving to work early in the morning when it was blinding. Since it came that way gradually it wasn’t too hard to adjust your driving style to it. I could see how suddenly having the Sun straight on in your windshield from one Friday to the next Monday could be problematic for some.
Having had schedules that were all over the map due to working as a nurse in an ER for years as well as EMT in 24-hour cycles it baffles me that people have that much trouble adjusting to flexible sleep patterns.
@chienfou @Star2236
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2905900/
that’s Finland
I know there are more of them
but up there, they are already midnight sun land
@chienfou @Star2236
Some US data, paywalled though
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022437522001141
And different stats for spring and fall
@Cerridwyn @chienfou @Star2236 when i was in the USAF, most of my squadron had to provide services 24/7 (ATC, electronics maintenance, etc.) so were on rotating shifts (8-4 two days, 4-midnight two days, midnight-8 two days, one or two days off (depending on manning available), then start the cycle over again. We even had midnight breakfast available. i wasn’t on such shifts but my roommate was. Those folks got used to the schedule pretty well and since i primarily hung out with them, so did i. [But we were all pretty young, so that might have made a big difference in adaptability.]
@Cerridwyn @chienfou @phendrick @Star2236 Yeah that was my point (think posted below) about things like military and space operations already needing to work that way (as they have for decades). Or in a submarine, for that matter. (I never did that, but worked with some ex-submariners)
@Cerridwyn @Star2236
That’s NOT what the article you linked said…
“The regression analysis showed that the spring time change was followed by an overall crash reduction of 18% during the eight-week period immediately after the time change…”
Again… Hard to factor out the normal change in length of the daylight between equinox and solstice.
Seems like the best control group would be an area with no change for daylight savings time. Can’t really see where those comparisons have been done though.
@chienfou @Star2236 the first time I put what I had always heard. But then I decided to look it up which I found more interesting that it worked the opposite
It’s going to be killer for me this year. I fly to Vegas early sunday morning so when I get there, I’m losing three hours!
I’m hoping that my hotel room will be ready early so I can take a nap.
@ironcheftoni
I hear ya!
Having just travelled from HI to Vegas to Atlanta to central AL in the last day I can attest that it can be a bit of a PITA. Especially when your (already scheduled) late arrival gets in 90 minutes late. Nothing like a 3 hour drive after 14 hours of travel time to get home at 0500.
@chienfou @ironcheftoni 3-hour drive at night after several long flights…? At this point I’d say use an airport hotel, get the bad free breakfast, and drive in the light of day.
@ironcheftoni @pmarin
Actually did the research and tried to bail in Vegas where we could have had a decent night sleep etc. Couldn’t get the rest of the squad to buy in to the idea.
I like it when the time change gives us an extra hour of sleep.
@heartny
It’s the weekend… sleep in. Live a little!
In a discussion a few weeks ago I proposed we just standardize in UTC (what used to be GMT) so everybody in the world (and space) uses the same time system. This is already the norm for aircraft and military operations and some banking. No more time zone and “stupid savings time” issues.
Yes the down-side is depending where you live, you may go to work as the Sun comes up at 20:00 and lunch hour would be at what used to be midnight but would be mid-day, or “old noon”
@pmarin
Seems like that would make doing business a bitch.
How do you know WTF relative time it is when you are calling someplace half way round the world?
@chienfou i agree it will never happen for the normal public (i.e. us). Well maybe eventually when in the future we are a spacefaring people.
But if you have worked with distributed sites (as I used to for work) there was always the “what time is it where you are?” thing. and setting a group meeting meant telling everybody it was 9AM PDT or whatever. and… what time will that be where YOU are.
I used to get up very early and check email and sometimes do voice talk with customers and they would ask where are you now, why are you awake? of course I ask that of myself; it’s 4:30 AM EST now where I am. Maybe go back to bed? not sure.
No matter what, the International Date Line will eternally confuse people. How can it be tomorrow there already?
@pmarin
Calling customers at 0430 EST is really going to piss off your client in London, California.
@chienfou Tech never sleeps.
On that topic I’m pretty sure that home internet providers sometimes do server or network updates in the dark hours, often causing 10-20 minute outages. I’ve seen this in 2 different places with different providers. Annoying when that is the time of day you are trying to get things done.
No time change. They have found that with savings time more people have more sleep issues the entire time savings time is in effect because of how light (or lak there of) and timing affects our body and natural cycles.
@Kidsandliz
I find that more than a bit suspect since the length of daylight varies more that an hour between solstice and equinox.
@chienfou All I am doing is quoting the research. As far as I could tell it was about the relative time of day the sun rose and set.
@Kidsandliz
And all I’m doing is wondering how they factored that in to their conclusion i.e. how did they control for that.
My plants really need the extra daylight, though.
@jouest
@jouest That only helps it they get enough electrolytes.
@jouest @yakkoTDI or Brondo! it’s what plants crave.
@jouest @yakkoTDI Correction: Brawndo!
@jouest @pmarin Brondo? Somebody needs to go to Starbucks and let some stress out.
@jouest @yakkoTDI OK so this is weird: Latest “come in for service” mail with coupons from a VW dealer offers Oil and Filter change as “what your engine craves.”
@jouest @yakkoTDI Starbucks! Yeah, what’s up with their latest rebranding where they show things like actual good-looking strong coffee being made? I thought they had become the $8 milk-shake/“frappucino” company.
to say it’s world confusion is an understatement. we already have a state (I think Arizona) that opted out of it. When I worked with engineers there I had to ask what time they were at for setting meetings because the offset was not consistent.
European countries go to what they call “Summer times” but it’s not the same dates “we” change it (to accept the blame the U.S. changed it multiple times over last few decades). So from Pacific, mostly Western Europe is 9 hours but sometimes it is 8 (or is it 10?)
England (Greenwich!) is usually one hour sooner than that but maybe not always?
Another annoyance about DST. When my mom and I went to Laughlin, NV once. Laughlin is on the Nevada/Arizona border. Arizona doesn’t participate in DST. When flying in, the flight attendant warned me to take my phone’s clock off gps or satellite time otherwise the time would randomly change depending upon what tower it would happen to hit at the moment.
@ironcheftoni Nevada does what it wants!!
@ironcheftoni @jouest The house always wins.
@ironcheftoni @jouest actually. That’s Arizona in this case
@Cerridwyn @ironcheftoni @jouest Isn’t the river the border between Nevada and Arizona there? Which could mean your phone may jump to a signal from the other side, depending on where you are?
I want to play golf at night on weekdays. Give me always on daylight savings.
@ChadP You don’t need DST. You need night vision headsets.
@heartny surely when you get an EXTRA hour it translates to gym time, though…
@jouest Check back with me in November.
Honestly, I feel it probably depends on your latitude more than anything. Living in the South, I feel like DST year round would benefit us more. (or abandon DST altogether and start work/school an hour earlier year round).
One thing I don’t like is the constant switching. Accidents and deaths spike after time changes.
@OnionSoup In a more Northern area and being an early-morning person, I don’t like the long, dark mornings just after switching in Spring.
And I don’t mind evenings with more light longer, but the further North you are you may be seeing sunset or at least dusk lasting to 10:30 or 11 and In generally go to bed before that. and if I can avoid it, I’m not a “dark curtains” person, or any curtains at all for that matter.
I often hear that it’s convenient for {whatever reason}. (usually “having more daylight after the workday”}
I’ve always felt that changing the clocks was dishonest.
If people want to go into work earlier to get out earlier, that’s great! Good for them! Let businesses post their summer hours and everyone will figure it out. (Especially if everybody’s “summer hours” start and end on the same dates…)
There’s no other situation I can think of where I’m [socially] allowed to pretend I’m in a different timezone than I actually am. But with DST, it’s legally mandated.
Besides, there’s already more daylight during summer. Why are we pretending that our clocks can do it better?
@xobzoo wild cheering
@jouest @xobzoo I heard some bozo (not related to @xobzoo but it’s a good name) say that Daylight Saving Time meant longer days and shorter nights. That does happen in this season as we approach Equinox, and as it has been doing for billions of years, is based on how the earth rotates around the Sun, long before humans decided on an arbitrary number system to represent times of day. And changing the numbers doesn’t make the day longer or shorter.
It gives me a chance to be a real pedantic pain in the ass to people who think EST stands for “Eastern”. Which in turn gives them a chance to say “whatever, dude.”
Also somehow I’m usually early to work the Monday morning after the spring time change but late after the fall one. No idea why.
@djslack Eastern? How silly. We all know it means estimated.
@djslack @yakkoTDI this is how I tell time, yes
@djslack @jouest @yakkoTDI No of course EST was a new-age meditation/philosophy thing from the 1970s, or as some claim was a cult.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training
I read a site somewhere that said getting solar installed will make me exempt from DST. Can’t wait.
@mikey My neighbor has solar, I will have to ask him if his clocks change Sunday morning. And we can say let’s go to lunch at 12 noon, oh that would be your 11AM. Oh the restaurant isn’t open for lunch then. Or Do they have solar?
I hate daylight saving time with every fiber of my beans.
@Pony it doesn’t seem fond of us, either, to be honest
@jouest @Pony It was a bad idea that just seems to be getting badder (not “bad” in a good way) each time this comes up, which is twice a year. Every year. Which is about how often congress actually votes on anything, which apparently this would require, and it continues to remain unresolved.
@pmarin @Pony fun fact: the Senate randomly voted unanimously on this a few years ago at the very end of a session. never went to the House. lobbyists from Big Sun clearly squashed it.