Senator John McCain’s DC funeral

@capguncowboy
It seems like it used to be that politicians were nasty to each other only during the period running up to their election/reelection. Then they’d more or less put those differences aside and try to do the right thing for this country - and of course their views on that would be different with respect to what was “right” but they’d at least they’d make an effort to work together rather than what goes on in the last bunch of years where the only goal seems to be “my way or the highway”.

Aaack. I mean Pres GW Bush and Pres Obama will eulogize; Pres Clinton and Sec Clinton will attend, by invitation. Specific people were disinvited, like Cheeto.

@OldCatLady OK thanks for the correction. My bad.

@Kidsandliz Most media outlets have been calling today his funeral. Public memorial ceremonies to honor heroes are scarce these days.

@OldCatLady Yeah that is what ABC called it so that is what I called it.

@OldCatLady I watched the memorial service this morning, and I wept at the end. Very little makes me cry, but this one pushed me over the edge.

I seldom agreed with his politics, but I’ve respected him since he was an occupant at the Hanoi Hilton (yes, I’m that old). He was a brave and decent human being, and my heart aches for our loss.

To quote what many others have said: “We shall not see his like again.”

@Shrdlu My (then) husband did three tours in-country while McCain was held prisoner, and came home safely. McCain’s family lived here then, and attended my church. (I’ve only been here 15 years.) Pretty good local newspaper article here.

@Shrdlu Like you I often disagreed with what his goals were, but I respected the approach he took to try to get things done. And I am grateful that he threw his vote in with the folks who didn’t want to dismantle ACA. As someone with enough pre-existing conditions (including multiple cancers) to prevent me from getting disability insurance, life insurance, long term care insurance…I am grateful that I can at least get health insurance.

Never has a pile of shit been so perfectly placed in front of someone’s name…

@serpent @ cinoclav It is at times like this I wish we had a negative star system. While I did not agree with a good chunk of his political ideology, that does not mean I did not respect the man for his willingness to talk to the other side (unlike a lot of what is going on with some/many members of both political parties), to try to work out agreements that both sides could live with (again not what is going on right now with some members of both parties), and to try to put his vision (even if I didn’t agree with a bunch of it) of what is best for this country first instead of his own self interests (again not what some on both sides are doing). It is these kinds of behaviors that need to be exhibited by ALL of our politicians - on the local, state and national levels. If that were to happen our country would be far better off.

Everyone, of course, is entitled to their opinion, a freedom we need to preserve regardless of who agrees with whom. In this case the foul language used here is language I’d be more inclined to use to describe our current president rather than this man. Fortunately we still have the right to express our opinions.

@serpent I came here to comment, but you took all of my thoughts first. Thank you for your courage to step off the “All Hail!” bandwagon and tell it like it was.
“I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.” (attributed to Mark Twain, but wish I’d said it.)

@serpent: Many vets, especially from the Viet Nam era, agree with you on the traitor part. They also blame him for the Forestal fire which killed 134 sailors. I spend a good amount of time each month at the VA and I never hear anyone praise him there.

@Kidsandliz @serpent

Let idiocy speak for itself.

(McCain was very very far from perfect. And I have not agreed with much or most of his expressed politics over time, tho some of his positions were admirable.)

Re the person who mentioned the VA:
I know plenty of vets, including from Vietnam, who did not/do not approve of all his actions in uniform by any means, nor agree with much/most of his politics (they hold a variety of opinions) and yet had and have enormous respect for him.

Trash him if you must (which is not the same thing as mentioning his errors and flaws).
I think that action (the trashing) speaks for itself (about the quality of the perspectives of the person who commits the trashing.)

One can be highly imperfect, and make horrible errors of action and judgement, and yet still be far better than so many others who currently possess similar official public statue, power, and range.

I’m so glad he was in the Senate this time round. And so glad he did not fear or kowtow to the current occupant off the WH; this lack of fear makes him completely distinct from most senators and congresspersons of his party.

@f00l yes

@serpent Мать Россия приветствует вас, товарищ.

@tngrannyd Please fact check your claims. The Forrestal rumor was a Faux news creation.

@OldCatLady I was relating what the vets at the VA believe. I have read numerous articles, both pro and con. I do know that his father and grandfather were high ranking military men and as such the Forrestal incident could have occurred and been covered up. I do not have an opinion because I don’t have irrefutable facts either way. After all this time has passed, we never will.

@f00l @Kidsandliz @serpent again, I was relating, not endorsing, the general opinion of vets in the VA I frequent. See my further comments above in reply to @OldCatLady.

@tngrannyd

The ship fire happened a long time ago. There was zero evidence produced at the time that McCain had any responsibility for it, or that anyone at the time believed that he did. The Navy investigated, and later published extensive investigative material.

(Yes, a Pentagon coverup of allegations that according to contemporaneous records were never made at the time by anyone could have possibly happened.
In that universe, also it is theoretically possible, I suppose, that Xenu shot President Kennedy in Dallas on 1963.)

People can use the best and most reliable evidence and go with their and “most carefully considered without bias” best conclusions as to the facts.

Or they can go with gut reactions that confirm string and possibly irrational existing biases.
Or they can go with conspiracy theories that get the blood running hot.
Or they can believe “anything negative that happens to float by about someone they dislike”; this seems to be an emotionally and intellectually easy path for some persons.

I don’t spend much time at the VA. I do know a lot of vets from different engagements and time periods.
The ones I know are realistic, they work at critical thought, they get news from a variety of reputable sources, they are wary of propagandizing, they try not be credulous, they are disinclined to conspiracy theories without decent and solid backing evidence, and they try to be very fair-minded even when it hurts.
Esp when it hurts (because intellectual honesty forces a re-evaluation of previous attitudes) .

And I am so glad we have people like these in our military.

Re conspiracies with no credible evidence to support them:

Make your own conclusions.

To close my own comment…My niece escorted one elderly lady to her seat and noticed that she was visibly uncomfortable. Niece asked if there was any way she could be of further assistance. “Can you find out where my husband is seated?” “I will try. Who is he?” “You don’t know him?” “I don’t think so ma’am, should I?” “Well of course you should. I am Mrs. Henry Kissenger.”

@Frcal Congratulations to your niece. She has memories for a lifetime. I saw him, don’t know why they weren’t seated together. I remember when they married. God, I’m old.