Sad news: Mars One is probably a scam :(

@editorkid This is in fact some consolation, though I'm sure it's not gluten-free. Sigh.

@editorkid Almond Joy is better...

@JonT Until recently, Almond Joys were made in CT.. not TX.. now I think it PA. Such a sad thing, fresh Mounds and Almond Joy bars are amazzzzinnggg..

@mikibell

@editorkid but it is true.. they were soooooo yummy..

@joelmw

@joelmw only half a meeting? Don't tell me the other half was productive or I might start getting the wrong idea about you.

@denboy Alas, it was actually a very productive meeting, as I recall. But memory is notoriously unreliable, mine especially. If it helps, it very much feels like the project to which it pertained is in the shitter; and unfortunately it being in the shitter doesn't mean that I get to stop toiling away at it. Sigh. This really is a turd of a day.

@juststephen if you're serious I don't even know what to say to you.

@juststephen just one of the reasons that space exploration is incredibly important.

@juststephen I should have known this was coming when you spoke evil of British spelling. ;-)

@juststephen More seriously, to add to what @JonT said, the impulse to explore, like the desire to develop new technology (and the two are intrinsically interwoven), is as fundamentally human as our need to communicate and connect. These things change us, and as loathe as we are to change, changing is what we do, what we must do, or in some inexorable way we die.

It's part of our endless battle against entropy.

I have to ask, at what stage of exploration and technological advance would you stop and why? You're obviously using a computer of some sort and you're connected to the Internet. I'd assume you're content to be an American. None of this would exist without exploration.

@joelmw A favorite from Babylon 5:

@juststephen I've always expected something like this from you. It just makes sense.

@RedHot Okay. I'll reclarify my positions a bit.

I believe we've found out meant useful things that we've been able to use to help humanity while developing tools used for space exploration. I honestly don't see us living on another planet unless something extraordinary drastic happens that expands our technological abilities greatly.

I am more about spending money and resources on taking care of the people and hundreds of thousands that die of hunger related illnesses on Earth (this breaks my heart.. and in this day and age for this to be happening..) and also I'd not mind seeing us exploring the seas that we know less about than we do outer space in some circumstances.

As for the moon landing, it probably happened. I've loosened my stance in the past that it was a hoax, even though there is a very slim chance in my head that it could of been, it 99% chance wasn't.

I hope this clarifies things a bit.

@juststephen "Unless something extraordinary drastic happens that expands our technological abilities greatly" is precisely the point.

@juststephen I'm pretty sure that we could feed the world without additional leaps in technology or other major investment. As you mentioned before, this is a matter of leadership and political will. And you're right, in this day and age, no one should go hungry. I'm also in support of exploring the oceans and diving deeper into the atom, etc. I don't think it's either or.

@juststephen Stop fucking backpedalling and support your initial statement.

@juststephen Go dig up the US federal budget for the last 10 years. Look at the spending on social programs. Look at NASA's budget. Your argument is invalid. Re - landing on the moon; explain the lunar laser reflector measurements.

@Pavlov Let's all be mature here. No profanity necessary. There are perfectly valid ways to phrase sentences without using vulgarity.

@juststephen You don't vote do you?

@joelmw depending on Kirk or Picard: It helps if you listen to the original one with Christopher Walken in your head

@ThatsHeadly Yes, yes I do vote. Local and national elections. Although, I'm not a very political minded person.

@juststephen Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Please tell me you're not one of the "Young Earthers" as well?

@juststephen

The profanity isn't necessary, it is obligatory.

I'm not attempting to goad you into an argument, nor will I attack you for your belief (specifically regarding the moon landing) - and I'll even defend your right with others to believe what you wish and to express it here on this forum (we've tackled more unusual subjects) . . . But, I'd have a hell of a lot more respect for you if 1) you didn't backpedal (a lot) and 2) You'd defend your postulate.

7-10% of the American public AGREE with you. In fact, more people believe the moon landing was a hoax than believe Obamacare will lower healthcare costs (Source: National Review).

I may not share your belief, but that fact doesn't dissuade me from being interested in what you may have to share.

If you truly believe the lunar landings were a hoax, then at least have the stones to say WHY you hold that belief.

@Pavlov As I said previously in my reiterated post, from research I've done about it over the years, I'm 99% certain that it was indeed true. There's still that 1% or so that says it could have been a hoax. I'll try to type up some about that 1% in a bit, I'm trying to get the last bit of my box for the Mehrican exchange done (I've spent hours on this bad boy).

@juststephen "I personally believe that the moon landing was a hoax". Then when challenged, "As for the moon landing, it probably happened. I've loosened my stance in the past that it was a hoax, even though there is a very slim chance in my head that it could of been, it 99% chance wasn't." I'm personally more inclined to believe your first statement is how you truly feel. Regardless of my opinion, if you find the time in your busy day to share, I'm certain that there would be a few interested to read what you may type.

@juststephen Now comes forth from the barren desert just Stephen and proclaims profanity unnecessary. This guy right here is the reason why the member fuku exchange scares the shit out of me.

Just for you, Stephen:

Everyone knows that it is @carl669's fault that they didn't really land on the moon.

@4real damn right! and i kept ALL THE MONEY!!

@ThatsHeadly Dude, get out of my head (ha, get out of my head, Headly). I was totally thinking of this the whole time I was writing. And I would have said something too, but I'm trying to cut back. Anyways, yes.

@juststephen Bump . . .

@eyewerks I'd rather be an absurd, naive, goofball of a dreamer than a nay-saying cynic (not suggesting that that's you). Which is not to say that I'm never a cynic or sayer of nay. And obviously there were problems with Mars One, lots of them. I'm just wondering why no one has stepped up with something better yet--and in that vacuum, yeah, I was excited as fuck about the possibilities, the hope and the daring.

@joelmw I am probably the most over-the-top proponent and evangelist of space exploration that you'll ever encounter. I can back that up no fewer than five graduate degrees the purposes of which were to aquire the multiple disciplinary credentials that appealed to the powers that be at NASA. There's a place for science fiction and fantasy, but it disturbs me when the media hypes what is obviously a fanciful venture as being something which is viable. The problem is, and has been (for decades), politics. Obama has done more to destroy and dismantle the capabilities of the US than any dozen other individuals put together throughout our history. If you want to witness a bold new future, filled with scientific advances, space exploration, and a wealth of trickle down technologies, then you need to support political leaders with vision. Private industry alone cannot achieve the lofty goals that I have set. It will take leaders with resolute goals, government contracts and innovative private industry to realize the advancements that I'd like to see. It's far from "impossible", but it is extremely unlikely when our government has morphed into a welfare state, distributing out wealth to those that do not participate in our economy and failing to reinvest our resources in our future.

@eyewerks You had me at "over-the-top." :-) And I totally agree with the need for political leadership and public sector involvement, though I adamantly disagree with your assessment of Obama (but feel no need to hash that out here).

@eyewerks I also want to raise "pubic awareness"

@capguncowboy You might need to start with some research first. Maybe this pamphlet might help.

@Starblind watch out for the late fees

@Starblind They don't have paper mites at the pubic library. They have crotch crickets.

@joelmw No surprise there. Those that can't back up their position shy away from discussion.

@eyewerks @joelmw this is preemptive:

@eyewerks You're just baiting me now. I'm willing to back away from your "invitation" to "discussion," because I don't think this is the place or time. I spend plenty of time in other venues hammering idiots who say stupid shit about politics. This is a place where I like to have a different kind of fun. This is the place where I insert the words "fuck" and "shit" into my comments as frequently as I reasonably can, because that's the feel around here. And while I'm open to it changing, I don't want it to change in the direction of people screaming at each other (at least not at length) about political opinions. Is that really what you want?

For one thing, I don't think that the format of these forums is conducive to that kind of discussion. As I've already said, I also don't think they match the tone.

Besides which, do you really think you can make a logical and substantiated defense of "Obama has done more to destroy and dismantle the capabilities of the US than any dozen other individuals put together throughout our history"? I can list several other folks who, I believe, have done closer to what you're suggesting (and, for the record, I'll say that I think that Obama has had a positive impact) and I wouldn't dream of suggesting that they've "done more to destroy and dismantle the capabilities of the US than any dozen other individuals put together throughout our history." And if that's the nature of the "discussion" you're looking for, well fuck you, I don't have time for that kind of bullshit and I've got plenty of meaningful stress in my life without adding more meaningless frustration from you. If you're just goofing (not about your opinions generally--I'm okay with differing opinions--but about that specific claim and/or the silly trash talk), we can hug and make up. For the record, I tell some of my best friends to go fuck themselves (and I don't even make it conditional), when they're being stupid, so don't take it too personally. Take it a little personally, though, because if you're serious, you're being a dick.

@JonT For the record, the above is my sincere invitation to end the fight. In any case, whatever follows, I'm done arguing about this particular thing. I apologize for the length of what I said and truly hope that it was productive.

@JonT @eyewerks This is all @carl669's fault anyway.

@joelmw @JonT @eyewerks here. let me distract you all with complete nonsense.

@carl669 aw man, the secondhand Vietnamese ham business is booming!

@joelmw @eyewerks

@JonT Coming soon to meh: secondhand Vietnamese ham.

@joelmw @JonT @Thumperchick ok...now i actually want to try some Vietnamese ham. it sounds a lot like something I had in the Philippines (can't remember the name). whatever it was though, it was delicious.

@carl669 It was Spam, which is at least not people.

@2many2no That's what they'd tell us if it were. Which it probably is.

@Fen_Star LMFAO!

@ThatsHeadly all news is new news to someone.

@2many2no completely agree, in the last vestiges of my shriveled optimism I hold out hope that I'll see a new age of space exploration in my lifetime.

@2many2no YES, YES, YES!!!!! IOW, ahem, I agree.

@2many2no They did in fact exactly call it "Seward's Folly," after all.

@JonT Elon has your back.

@ThatsHeadly yep, Branson and Musk are still out there trying to make it happen.

@JonT I have no faith in Branson. Sub-orbital airplanes aren't going to cut it. Space x is delivering payloads to geostationary and L points already. Branson is a showman. Musk is a true believer and an engineer.

@ThatsHeadly Well said, then maybe Branson can offer the only competition and I believe competition is good (see USSR vs USA Space Race).

@JonT There's Blue Origin: http://www.gizmag.com/blue-origin-be-3-engine-space/36898/

@daveJay
It is an interesting article, but the author goes to great lengths to point out every negative aspect of Mars One and space exploration in general. This is a guy who admits "I suffered a panic attack of such intensity the walls of the room appeared distended in my vision, and I momentarily lost the ability to hear. Then I lay on the floor of my office and cried for a very long time" after reading [ Timeline of the Far Future ][1]

But for Josh (the guy signed up to go to Mars) "it’s even that most minute, most remote chance it could actually work that keeps Josh holding on to hope, the hope that brought him home from Europe and away from a girl he really loved, to dedicate all his energies completely to Mars One."

Exploration takes a lot of faith and there's always more nay-sayers than supporters. It's not that far back in history that to say the Earth is not the center of the Universe or that germs cause disease was considered heresy. I accept that a lot of (maybe most) people are opposed to space exploration for myriad reasons, but I refuse to accept that we can afford to give up.

[1]: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future

@JonT Well, obviously, I haven't got that linking thing down yet.

@daveJay Thanks for the link, that article was fascinating. I think that the astronaut had a good point- why not do this on the moon where you can get folks back in case of an emergency? I also wonder how a guy like Josh was selected. He seems to have trouble holding down a job. And it is very sad that he decided to put his life on hold indefinitely. And as for the reality TV thing, is anyone really going to watch the preparations for 10 years?

@sammydog01 I hate reality TV with a holy passion. I admit to watching one season of Last Comic Standing, which I watched for the standup, but eventually gave up on because of the overwrought and staged melodrama. But I'd watch the preparations. That being said, I'm obviously not in tune with the mass market.

@clselfridge There are surely better articles about this, but this is what you get, because I'm lazy. https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/80660main_ApolloFS.pdf

@joelmw Excellent! And that article doesn't even mention miniaturization of electronics and computers. Do we like our smartphones?
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43772079/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/t/truth-about-nasas-space-tech-spinoffs/

@joelmw that is a great article and in no way am I saying that we shouldnt try to go. I am saying that a one way ticket to "colonize" mars is stupid IMO.

@clselfridge It makes sense to me. As they explain, the cost of getting anyone (let alone the whole mission) back multiplies the costs and risks significantly. It makes sense for this to be an all-in mission, IMO. And honestly, I think that the technical needs to facilitate a return trip would be correspondingly daunting.

@clselfridge "You wanna know how I did it? I never saved anything for the swim back."


(@JonT, as a "believer," I'm wondering what your take is on this movie. It's absolutely one of my top ten favorites of all time).

@joelmw fantastic movie. I haven't seen it in years but I remember loving it. You've inspired me to watch it again ASAP.

@JonT I love the anachronistic noir feeling of it and the way that it incorporates so much about advanced technology without obsessing over the details. It's both artsy stylized and profoundly forward-thinking. And as an ode to the indomitable human spirit, for my money, it has no equal. Just a great film on so many levels. I wish more science fiction followed its lead.

@joelmw I agree, and that's one of my favorite things in scifi too when a piece of advanced technology is explained and demonstrated well enough that it doesn't require any additional ham-fisted exposition.

@joelmw i see how it would definitely be cost prohibitive to do the return mission. However i fail to see the benefit of building a human habitat on Mars.. The development of technology while pushing further out to find planets which require much less work to adapt and survive on seems like time and money better spent. Edit: movie looks interesting. will check that out.

@PocketBrain as long as no video cameras go with them.

@dashcloud the moon is a much better choice to start the focus back into exploration of space. It is close enough to make return travel easier and cheaper while creating a base of operations for astroid mining. Which is something that could be a great idea as long as it doesn't prove to stay too expensive to make it worth it.

@ilovereality Reality show, hoax, very gullible people. You just identified three of the things I find most annoying in the world. Actually, gullibility isn't so much what bothers me as extreme ignorance and stupidity. But I'm guessing that's part of what you mean. No thanks.

@joelmw Meanwhile I found the gullibility with the English slant on the whole thing exactly what made the show,

@ilovereality I might actually like it, but as a rule, those are three of my least favorite things. But for instance, I hate Jimmy Kimmel's Pedestrian Questions and Leno's Man on the Street interviews and the prank shows, etc. Usually it's either an unfair setup or it's just depressing. Sigh.