@emanonR technically, nothing generates energy they just convert from one form of energy to another. Regardless of whether that energy is stored in the chemical bonds of a fuel or the chemical bonds of a battery.
Oh this one’s tempting me. I see mentions that it can run a refrigerator. What about a 5,000 BTU or so window A/C? I’m concerned about the inrush current/initial startup load of the compressor.
@PooltoyWolf@xterraguy 660 watt hour capacity, so look at the power draw specs printed on your AC. Multiply power station watt hours (660) by around .8 to account for conversion inefficiency (528). Divide watt hour consumption of the AC (*1000 if it’s in kilowatt hours instead) by 528, and assuming this thing can start the AC at all, that’s probably about how long it’ll run. For a reasonably efficient newish 5k BTU AC, that’s maybe an hour.
@PooltoyWolf@xterraguy about an hour is a reasonable expe station for a modern 5Kbtu windows unit. And yes, this should handle the I rush current for the compressor.
@PooltoyWolf@xterraguy I take it back. I just saw in another comment that this thing uses SLA type batteries. I would say don’t buy this in general but certainly not if you want to drain it down to 0% SoC.
@Aspirant_Fool@PooltoyWolf@xterraguy And that assumes you can get away with running it completely dead. Most likely it would shut down much sooner to save the battery so you’d lose maybe 10-20% capacity to that depending upon the cutoff.
@tyler524 except a UPS is designed to stay on the line and monitor the power conditions and kick in when they are unacceptable, while this thing would just subject your devices to modified sine wave power until it overheats and dies or cooks the battery, if it’s capable of simultaneously charging and discharging. It’s not likely rated for continuous duty.
It could probably be an auxiliary battery for a UPS, though. But then all the AC power whatsits becomes superfluous.
That first review is from someone who basically didn’t even use it. It was a backup to a gas generator, which was a backup to regular power, which they never lost, because the hurricane missed them. That’s like giving a burger a 5 star rating because it sat there while you ate pizza.
@warpedrotors@Woody1 Many (most?) modern fridges run on about 100 watts. Spiking up to 400 or so for a few seconds when the heat strip releases the ice in the icemaker. Fridge compressors of the last 15-20 years use inverter tech to slowly ramp up speed and are insulated and sealed to be insanely efficient (albeit far more fragile) compared to yesteryear’s surge-start workhorses. Ironically, due to less/worse insulation and the use of old-tech compressors, mini-fridges can easily wind up using more power in a day than a full-sized fridge nowadays.
@jester747@warpedrotors@Woody1 I’d assume a goodly chunk of what we consider to be minifridges these days don’t have compressors at all, and operate using a Peltier junction (thermoelectric cooling). I prefer compressors, personally.
@ShotgunX SLA batteries aren’t really meant to be deep discharged anyway, and given they’re a lot cheaper (and usually easier) to replace than lithium technology batteries in devices like this, I can still see their appeal. I’d rather be able to easily and cheaply replace a battery once every several years, than have the entire device essentially become junk when the largely proprietary lithium battery pack cycles out.
@PooltoyWolf@ShotgunX Alas, prices for AGM or SLA batteries are not that cheap, whereas LiFePO4 prices have dropped. For a 50Ah battery, they are pretty much on par with one another.
The caveat is that LiFePO4 is usually just rated for its output – expect a 50Ah battery to max out at 50A output. AGM/SLA are capable of outputting much higher currents (with diminished runtime), hence tiny 8Ah batteries in a UPS being able to crank out 1200+ watts, which is 100+ amps.
Most refrigerators need a surge of power, or in-rush amperage, when their compressor starts up that’s 2–3 times more than their average running watts. The average home refrigerator needs around 1,000–2,000 starting watts, but the exact capacity depends on the model and size of the fridge. For example, upright and chest freezers typically draw double their running amps during startup.
@Woody1 Those stats for fridges are a bit outdated. Fridges from the last 15-20 years have been using inverter driven compressors that slowly ramp up to speed. A kill-a-watt reader on my current fridge (nothing fancy) reads 80 watts while running. Top wattage on the inside label is listed as 500 watts, and that’s likely due to the icemaker heatstrip requiring a few hundred watts for a couple seconds every batch. I have a tiny powerbank (something like 300wh of capacity) that can run my fridge for a couple hours during outages.
@jester747@Woody1 You consider 300Wh to be a tiny power bank? What does that make my 5,000 mAh USB power bank? And I thought my FlashFish was plenty huge…LOL
I’m sure there’s a very good reason I’m too ignorant to discern, but why are the Daisy Chain terminals marked “+”(plus) for black, and “-”(minus) for red?
@Astronomer@PooltoyWolf I think it’s so you attach the positive terminal of the external battery to the negative terminal of the internal battery (and vice-versa).
@OCBill3 There are a few now for portable power… off the top of my head: Ecoflow (commonly sold at Costco, more peace of mind if it were to fail), Jackery, Bluetti, and now even Anker makes an impressively spec’d one. They all have pros and cons so do some rabbit holing before buying.
@jester747@OCBill3 FlashFish seems to make some good ones too, though not sure how large theirs get. My 300 watt one has been very reliable for the several months I’ve been using it on and off.
Can this be used as a UPS? I.e., can you leave it plugged into the mains and run power thru it, then have it automatically switch over to battery when the mains power is lost?
I have a client that uses a power recliner and if the home power goes out she could be stuck in it unable to get out. Would this work if her recliner and a few low power items (CapTel phone, cable modem, wireless router and an LED table lamp) were plugged into it full time? I see small(er than this) lithium battery packs for recliners but they are often chair-brand specific and don’t seem to be designed to be a full-time load bearing device.
@Jonas4321 If that chair plugs into a standard 120v outlet, I’d say there’s very little chance it won’t work since the powerbank delivers 1800 watts (peak?) which is the most you’ll get in a residential outlet circuit. Going above that requires a 20amp outlet (one of the plug legs is perpendicular).
The sealed lead-acid battery thing is really not bad for this purpose, as has been mentioned. Other than weight of course.
The “modified sine wave” is a bit of a let-down since there are similar products (though at higher prices) with true sine wave, important for some devices. Some computers, motors, CPAPs etc.
Also any clue on actual date of manufacture, i.e. age of the battery? It’s not true they all die after 3 years. I’ve had some SLA batteries working after 10 years. I’ve also had off-brand eBay/Amazon-3rd-party ones virtually useless in a few months.
@nishthenarwhal None. Aside from only outputting 120 volts, the 240v here is split-phase not single. This device seems to produce power for US standards meaning 220-240 single phase requires a voltage converter that would cost more than and weigh nearly as much as this device.
@OnionSoup Motors that drive well pumps are typically 240V and almost always connected to a control box. Meaning there’s no plug at the end of a wire to plug in to a battery box like this. Check your setup before buying anything like this.
@OnionSoup When we built our house out in the country, I anticipated power outages and bought a backup (gas powered) generator. The seller even let me temporarily patch it into the well pump supply to verify that it would handle the startup surge before closing the deal.
However, because of <stuff>, I didn’t get around to adding a transfer switch to allow quick/easy plugging in the gen. Then <a while> later came a big snow storm on Christmas Eve. Power lines down on the road and repair crews couldn’t get to them, leaving us stuck at home with no power (which meant very little water) for 4 days. Christmas dinner was canned soup warmed on the gas cook top. Two adults and three small children soon filled the toilets with no water pressure to flush, so we resorted to melting snow on the stove top to dump in the bowls.
Guess what my first project was when the snow cleared and power was restored? (Hint: it was having a generator transfer switch installed. )
I just experienced the storm that blew through Dallas. Power was out for a little more than a day. Lots of people are still without power. If this can help extend the fridge for a day or two it’ll be well worth it to not have to restock all the food. (I should be able to recharge it in between fridge duty)
Specs
Product: Phase2Energy Powersource 1800-Watt 660Wh Power Station
Model: P2E660PSS
Condition: New
What’s Included?
Price Comparison
$315.98 (shipped) at eBay
Warranty
90 days
Estimated Delivery
Monday, Jun 3 - Thursday, Jun 6
A shocking deal!
please stop calling those things “generators”
@emanonR They can generate a lot of regret. Though not instantly. Fortunately this site sells kits for that.
@emanonR +100 it doesn’t generate anything! I may as well call my car a restaurant because I can (and sometimes do) transport food in it!
These products are big ass batteries. The solar controller is almost incidental, likely less than 5% of them ever get hooked up to solar.
@emanonR technically, nothing generates energy they just convert from one form of energy to another. Regardless of whether that energy is stored in the chemical bonds of a fuel or the chemical bonds of a battery.
@emanonR @OnionSoup Yeah, this is a signal generator with an 1800W amplifier. It’s more of a generator than the gasoline things are…
@emanonR @OnionSoup @sluggy7584 All the kids are going to be hooking these up to their subwoofers now to get that 60hz bass
@theonetruestrip No wonder my restaurant venture failed, I wasn’t transporting any food!
Oh this one’s tempting me. I see mentions that it can run a refrigerator. What about a 5,000 BTU or so window A/C? I’m concerned about the inrush current/initial startup load of the compressor.
@PooltoyWolf almost absolutely not, certainly not long enough for it to make any difference.
@xterraguy Kinda what I figured. Even an hour would be acceptable
@PooltoyWolf @xterraguy 660 watt hour capacity, so look at the power draw specs printed on your AC. Multiply power station watt hours (660) by around .8 to account for conversion inefficiency (528). Divide watt hour consumption of the AC (*1000 if it’s in kilowatt hours instead) by 528, and assuming this thing can start the AC at all, that’s probably about how long it’ll run. For a reasonably efficient newish 5k BTU AC, that’s maybe an hour.
/giphy math makes brain hurt
@PooltoyWolf @xterraguy about an hour is a reasonable expe station for a modern 5Kbtu windows unit. And yes, this should handle the I rush current for the compressor.
@PooltoyWolf @xterraguy I take it back. I just saw in another comment that this thing uses SLA type batteries. I would say don’t buy this in general but certainly not if you want to drain it down to 0% SoC.
@ohhwell @PooltoyWolf I really can’t imagine this uses SLA
Edit: wow, they are. Damn glad I didn’t pounce
@Aspirant_Fool @PooltoyWolf @xterraguy And that assumes you can get away with running it completely dead. Most likely it would shut down much sooner to save the battery so you’d lose maybe 10-20% capacity to that depending upon the cutoff.
Might not be.a bad price as a UPS for the laser and 3D printers
@tyler524 except a UPS is designed to stay on the line and monitor the power conditions and kick in when they are unacceptable, while this thing would just subject your devices to modified sine wave power until it overheats and dies or cooks the battery, if it’s capable of simultaneously charging and discharging. It’s not likely rated for continuous duty.
It could probably be an auxiliary battery for a UPS, though. But then all the AC power whatsits becomes superfluous.
@djslack @tyler524 The stats say
“Features an instant on UPS for uninterrupted power”
@cengland0 @tyler524 I stand corrected. Disregard my uninformed statement.
That first review is from someone who basically didn’t even use it. It was a backup to a gas generator, which was a backup to regular power, which they never lost, because the hurricane missed them. That’s like giving a burger a 5 star rating because it sat there while you ate pizza.
@warpedrotors I agree. And the refrigerator was probably one of those dorm refrigerators that’s a 2x2 Cube. 4 hours! LMAO
@warpedrotors @Woody1 Many (most?) modern fridges run on about 100 watts. Spiking up to 400 or so for a few seconds when the heat strip releases the ice in the icemaker. Fridge compressors of the last 15-20 years use inverter tech to slowly ramp up speed and are insulated and sealed to be insanely efficient (albeit far more fragile) compared to yesteryear’s surge-start workhorses. Ironically, due to less/worse insulation and the use of old-tech compressors, mini-fridges can easily wind up using more power in a day than a full-sized fridge nowadays.
@jester747 @warpedrotors @Woody1 I’d assume a goodly chunk of what we consider to be minifridges these days don’t have compressors at all, and operate using a Peltier junction (thermoelectric cooling). I prefer compressors, personally.
So what are the big black and red knob-looking terminals on it? Like literally to jam a positive and negative bare wire in there?
@medz it says you can connect 12 V batteries and increase the capacity
@airjer @medz man, I was hoping they were speaker wire inputs (seeing as how this is Meh, and all).
@airjer @haydesigner @medz They are, if you’re brave enough.
@airjer @blaineg @haydesigner @medz Anything can make a loud sound…once!
I almost bought one until I saw the batteries are lead-acid.
@CatsAreGods
You’re right!
From the equivalent Duracell model’s spec sheet:
@CatsAreGods oof, thanks for that. Almost hit that button. It’s just a glorified 1500VA UPS. Which is not a bad thing really. Sump pump backup?
@CatsAreGods @r0xor negative! Trust me I’ve gone that route and still had floods in the basement. Invest in an electric pump along with one of these.
Most sump pumps require 800-1050W to run and anywhere from 2150-4100W of surge power.
@CatsAreGods Nothing at all wrong with SLA if weight and size aren’t really a concern. They’re also orders of magnitude safer and less volatile.
@CatsAreGods @narfcake good catch. And oof, 61.2 lbs. Hard pass.
@PooltoyWolf They also don’t really last beyond ~3 years and/or just a few discharge cycles.
@ShotgunX SLA batteries aren’t really meant to be deep discharged anyway, and given they’re a lot cheaper (and usually easier) to replace than lithium technology batteries in devices like this, I can still see their appeal. I’d rather be able to easily and cheaply replace a battery once every several years, than have the entire device essentially become junk when the largely proprietary lithium battery pack cycles out.
@PooltoyWolf @ShotgunX Alas, prices for AGM or SLA batteries are not that cheap, whereas LiFePO4 prices have dropped. For a 50Ah battery, they are pretty much on par with one another.
The caveat is that LiFePO4 is usually just rated for its output – expect a 50Ah battery to max out at 50A output. AGM/SLA are capable of outputting much higher currents (with diminished runtime), hence tiny 8Ah batteries in a UPS being able to crank out 1200+ watts, which is 100+ amps.
@narfcake @PooltoyWolf @ShotgunX
laughs in 640+Ah LIFePO4
Phase 2 is too easy. It’s just 1 set of 3 + 1 run of 4.
@Num1Zero ISWYDT.
I’m a little ashamed it took so many read-throughs for it to click. But I suppose that made it funnier when I got it.
@Num1Zero much easier to play phase 10 though,if you are not in the dark
Gin!
((Where’s my tonic & gin))
Most refrigerators need a surge of power, or in-rush amperage, when their compressor starts up that’s 2–3 times more than their average running watts. The average home refrigerator needs around 1,000–2,000 starting watts, but the exact capacity depends on the model and size of the fridge. For example, upright and chest freezers typically draw double their running amps during startup.
@Woody1 I ran our 8 year old GE side by side just fine with a bluetti ps54 that only has a 700 watt inverter.
@Woody1 Those stats for fridges are a bit outdated. Fridges from the last 15-20 years have been using inverter driven compressors that slowly ramp up to speed. A kill-a-watt reader on my current fridge (nothing fancy) reads 80 watts while running. Top wattage on the inside label is listed as 500 watts, and that’s likely due to the icemaker heatstrip requiring a few hundred watts for a couple seconds every batch. I have a tiny powerbank (something like 300wh of capacity) that can run my fridge for a couple hours during outages.
@jester747 @Woody1 You consider 300Wh to be a tiny power bank? What does that make my 5,000 mAh USB power bank? And I thought my FlashFish was plenty huge…LOL
@PooltoyWolf @Woody1 For a powerbank that outputs 120v AC? Yeah, it’s on the smaller side. For a USB and/or DC-only it would be huge.
@jester747 @Woody1 I don’t refer to things that produce 120 volts AC as ‘power banks’ as a rule, to avoid confusion, heh.
I need a battery backup that provide low amperage for a very long time, but not one that expensive.
Item Weight 61.2 pounds
@outz holy cow that’s heavy for only 600 something watt hours!
I’m sure there’s a very good reason I’m too ignorant to discern, but why are the Daisy Chain terminals marked “+”(plus) for black, and “-”(minus) for red?
@Astronomer That is a damn good question.
@Astronomer @PooltoyWolf I think it’s so you attach the positive terminal of the external battery to the negative terminal of the internal battery (and vice-versa).
@Astronomer The Duracell version seems right.
@Astronomer @cengland0 What is the sun panel that attaches to it? (Thank you)
@Astronomer In the next picture, on the bench, the colors are correct. It’s just the picture from Meh that has them wrong.
Maybe that’s why Meh has them…
@Astronomer @pcunning218 Quick, someone who bought one show us a pic when it arrives!
As for the second reason in the write-up (review #3), for $149 I’ll just buy an extension cord.
@khearn I’d like to see the $149 extension cord!
I bought the last power supply, and I’m happy with it. I use it to charge all my portable chargers.
Yes, I use a charger to charge chargers.
What are the top brands for these things?
@OCBill3 There are a few now for portable power… off the top of my head: Ecoflow (commonly sold at Costco, more peace of mind if it were to fail), Jackery, Bluetti, and now even Anker makes an impressively spec’d one. They all have pros and cons so do some rabbit holing before buying.
@jester747 @OCBill3 FlashFish seems to make some good ones too, though not sure how large theirs get. My 300 watt one has been very reliable for the several months I’ve been using it on and off.
Can this be used as a UPS? I.e., can you leave it plugged into the mains and run power thru it, then have it automatically switch over to battery when the mains power is lost?
@ericinmke That reminds me, my recliner has a 9 volt battery as an emergency back up. (I’ll need to change it) Check your clients chair,
@ericinmke the specs section says it does have a UPS function, I’m told.
I have a client that uses a power recliner and if the home power goes out she could be stuck in it unable to get out. Would this work if her recliner and a few low power items (CapTel phone, cable modem, wireless router and an LED table lamp) were plugged into it full time? I see small(er than this) lithium battery packs for recliners but they are often chair-brand specific and don’t seem to be designed to be a full-time load bearing device.
@Jonas4321 find out how many watts the recliner uses to operate and you will have your answer.
@Jonas4321 If that chair plugs into a standard 120v outlet, I’d say there’s very little chance it won’t work since the powerbank delivers 1800 watts (peak?) which is the most you’ll get in a residential outlet circuit. Going above that requires a 20amp outlet (one of the plug legs is perpendicular).
Would get this if it it got me a “Free” $99 IRK.
The sealed lead-acid battery thing is really not bad for this purpose, as has been mentioned. Other than weight of course.
The “modified sine wave” is a bit of a let-down since there are similar products (though at higher prices) with true sine wave, important for some devices. Some computers, motors, CPAPs etc.
Also any clue on actual date of manufacture, i.e. age of the battery? It’s not true they all die after 3 years. I’ve had some SLA batteries working after 10 years. I’ve also had off-brand eBay/Amazon-3rd-party ones virtually useless in a few months.
Oh… Well I guess it using SLA type battery(s) would explain why it is so heavy.
I wouldn’t buy this thing for $100.
I would buy this if it had a handle
@rlui0514 The sides are the handles
@troy ahhhh that makes sense thanks!
@rlui0514 @troy ha ha! Now you have to buy one!
I am ignorant, so please be gentle. What is the possibility something like this could run an appliance with the below needs?
Voltage: 220-240V Single Phase
Wattage (min): 1620
@nishthenarwhal zero chance
@nishthenarwhal None. Aside from only outputting 120 volts, the 240v here is split-phase not single. This device seems to produce power for US standards meaning 220-240 single phase requires a voltage converter that would cost more than and weigh nearly as much as this device.
Wonder how long this could run my well pump so I still have water during a power outage.
@OnionSoup Motors that drive well pumps are typically 240V and almost always connected to a control box. Meaning there’s no plug at the end of a wire to plug in to a battery box like this. Check your setup before buying anything like this.
@OnionSoup When we built our house out in the country, I anticipated power outages and bought a backup (gas powered) generator. The seller even let me temporarily patch it into the well pump supply to verify that it would handle the startup surge before closing the deal.
)
However, because of <stuff>, I didn’t get around to adding a transfer switch to allow quick/easy plugging in the gen. Then <a while> later came a big snow storm on Christmas Eve. Power lines down on the road and repair crews couldn’t get to them, leaving us stuck at home with no power (which meant very little water) for 4 days. Christmas dinner was canned soup warmed on the gas cook top. Two adults and three small children soon filled the toilets with no water pressure to flush, so we resorted to melting snow on the stove top to dump in the bowls.
Guess what my first project was when the snow cleared and power was restored? (Hint: it was having a generator transfer switch installed.
How long would this run a TV and a portable hotspot?
@khamilton323 If they use 60w then 10 hours.
@khamilton323 That depends highly on the size, age, and technology of the TV!
Is there a sine wave inverter in it? You’ll hate your LED lights without one, they constantly flicker…
@PahBell Modified sine wave sadly. Not pure sine wave.
Get the lead out.
I just experienced the storm that blew through Dallas. Power was out for a little more than a day. Lots of people are still without power. If this can help extend the fridge for a day or two it’ll be well worth it to not have to restock all the food. (I should be able to recharge it in between fridge duty)
What solar panels work with this?