Good for them. I’ll have to spend some money there to show my support for their clear position to not cater to those who choose not to protect themselves or others.
@tinamarie1974 Here’s the info. https://www.oconnells-pub.com/
4652 Shaw Ave, St. Louis, MO 63110
It’s down by 44 & Kingshighway.
Apparently the burgers and roast beef get high marks.
@mike808@tinamarie1974 I don’t seem to be seeing “like” buttons for posts that end in images or links. Is that just me, or are others experiencing it too?
ATexas Republican leader who was hospitalized with COVID-19 died Wednesday, just days after he shared a post on social media questioning the effectiveness of the coronavirus vaccine.
Tx Republican Scott Appley was 45 years old when he died.
Rep. Ralph Norman, one of the three congressional Republicans suing Speaker Nancy Pelosi over fines for not wearing masks during a vote on the U.S. House floor, has contracted a breakthrough case of COVID-19, the second member of South Carolina’s delegation to do so.
He seems to have been vaccinated, per that article and other reports.
He sued Pelosi over the Speaker’s mask mandate.
It’s been widely publicized for some time that vaccinated persons can get breakthru Covid infections and then shed virus, even if they do not realize they are infected;
and much data exists indicating that mask-wearing in places where people gather limits one’s odds of getting or spreading infections (whether vaccinated or not).
mask-wearing in places where people gather limits one’s odds of getting or spreading infections (whether vaccinated or not).
Being vaccinated does not make you impervious to the virus. It just means your symptoms are so diminished that may not even know you are infected, and more importantly, not know you are spreading it.
Social distancing and masking works, and the bottom line is it saves other people’s lives, while being vaccinated saves yours.
One would think all those pro-lifers would be first in line to get vaccinated and to mask up and stop the senseless killing of the “already born” from spreading the virus. That they haven’t and don’t after 600,000 deaths proves their true motivation isn’t at all about “protecting the unborn”, but about the misogynistic opression of women through forced birth to produce male heirs and perpetuate the patriarchy.
@f00l@mike808@Tadlem43 I don’t think it proves this at all.
You are absolutely correct that these two courses of action cannot be reconciled, but I think the people involved are blind to it.
I can also point to Philippians 2:3-4, for example, about why Christians should be falling over each other to accept an incredibly minor inconvenience in service to the health and safety of others. Yet in Evangelical Protestant congregations, including my own, many or most members are completely unwilling to wear masks while they still uphold that the Bible as the divinely-inspired word of G^d.
Again, you can and should absolutely bring that up as an issue. Your mistake is expecting people to actually think about their positions and actions at all.
Many (most?) pro-lifers (of which I am one) oppose abortion to protect the unborn, and many (most?) pro-lifers oppose masks because of “freedom!” Don’t think about it any harder than that because they certainly aren’t.
@f00l@mike808@Tadlem43 I should add, I know that I have held incompatible positions in the past. I most likely still do. You probably have and do as well.
I like to think that, when I become aware of this, usually through discussion or argument with others, I make adjustments to positions that contradict my expressed values and world-view. Hopefully you do the same.
Most people don’t, though. They seem to just go with their gut on any particular issue and not think about it too hard. But man, they sure have feelings.
For what it’s worth, both major U.S. political parties are also a horrible mess of incompatible positions. This gives them both ample opportunity to pick at the inconsistencies on the “other side” as long as they don’t think about themselves too much. It’s gross. I believe the Republicans have been worse about this lately, at least, and I say this as someone who trends very conservative.
@Limewater
On pro-life, I am, but I don’t get a choice being a man, and my position is I have no say in a woman’s life decisions or circumstances any more than I do for a neighbor down the street or a stranger across town. So me saying what you can and can’t do with your vagina cannot be reconciled with you saying to me that I have to get the vaccine and wear a mask.
I think the “mess” is in large part due to legalized bribery, aka “dark money”, and Citizens United (anonymous money equals irresponsible unaccountabile speech), and gerrymandering (a consequence of our Senate construction as a way to compromise with the Southern slave-owning colonies giving outsized voting power to rural/farming citizens (remember, only non-enslaved men could vote, which meant that the South had far, far less voters than the Northern colonies with large cities) that was mirrored in the states legislatures.
Combined with short-attention-span-theatre-as-journalism, equal platforming of careful, reasoned, and rational speech with raving lunacy and hate speech, we end up with “whomever has the loudest bullhorn to say the most outrageous things gets the most voters pissed off enough to go vote” system. Moderate candidates get primaried out of races, and the most extreme nutjobs end up in office with the entrenched and institutionalized incumbency of a political class. Hence MTG and Gaetz are who we get in the House, along with the Cruz, Hawley, Tuberville, and Johnson wingnuts in the Senate.
@f00l@Limewater@mike808@Tadlem43 The go “with gut” part I think has some additional punch to it with the vaccine issue. I’m wondering what the % of people pre pandemic was that admitted a fear of needles/blood, and refused things like flu vaccines, because I think most of those have latched on to the conspiracy theories, politicians and others implying or outright saying to not get vaccinated with an “experimental” vaccine, and one particular politician casting distrust on anything the media says, allowing people to pick and choose to believe what they want to believe.
I think those who’ve grabbed onto these antivax ideas, and have a core primal fear of needles underneath it are going to be a real problem in getting the vaccination rate high enough to end this.
Before delta variant we needed 70+% to reach herd immunity, but that counts children, so we needed almost all adults to get vaccinated. Based on that, we really need children under 12 to get vaccinated to overcome the “reluctant” that are holding things back. With delta being more contagious, we probably need both children getting vaccinated, and more adults, probably need 90% of total population vaccinated to really get back to normal.
@f00l@Tadlem43 Read what? There is lots of stuff on the internet that’s completely false. Did you read actual trial sources or anything? Or just someone else’s post claiming side effects?
I see lots of claims like yours claiming to have done “research” but if it was real you could point to what sources led you to your conclusion.
I could just as easily claim the world is flat, and that I read about it.
@f00l@Tadlem43 CV19 vaccine is the 1st mRNA mass produced and distributed and after only 8 months of clinical trials, under an emergency approval. Prior to this vaccine, mRNA vaccines were still experimental, under consideration for use against Zika, rabies, and there was a small clinical trial for its use as a cancer fighting tool.
Most vaccines undergo 10-15 years of clinical trials before full approval for release.
This is information readily available on AMA, CDC, and other reputable sites.
In reality, the normal clinical trials are being conducted on everyone who is getting the mRNA vaccine. The J&J vaccine is formulated like a regular vaccine, and IMHO the preferable option.
@f00l@kevinrs The information is all available online for anyone to read. Use a good search engine.
I am a medical professional with over 40 years of experience. I read peer reviewed studies from medical/scientific sites and observationals from other medical professionals. Both are open for anyone to research and read for themselves.
@f00l@Faffs Actually, the J&J is a mDNA ‘vaccine’. The Novavax is more traditional, though not quite the same. It’s the same technology as the shingles vaccine, though, so it has been tested. It does use a form of the virus like traditional vaccines.
@f00l@Tadlem43 It uses a disabled adenovirus, not a coronavirus to deliver the “instructions”, and cannot replicate in our bodies. This methodology has been around since the 70s. I prefer the trued and true, rather than being part of a global clinical trial.
@f00l@Faffs@Tadlem43
So the real question is do you also follow the protocols required for those who do not vaccinate just as adamantly?
As in masking, social distancing, and avoiding congregations to the maximum extent possible?
Do you encourage and support others who choose as you do to do the same and put and end to the pandemic or do you avoid responsibility for your choice and its impact on everyone else while simultaneously demanding everyone else be responsible for your safety and health when you get COVID or the Delta variant? As in the form of our taxpayer-funded healthcare, technology, and educational systems and institutions that will care for not just you, but also your family, workplace, and the communities you participate in (that spreads the virus, or contracts it, or both) and support your lifestyle of choosing to remain vulnerable and a burden on society in the absence of an equitable contribution in exchange for your “freedom”?
The information is all available online for anyone to read. Use a good search engine.
Great! Then it should be easy for you to link to one of the several you found convincing in reaching your conclusion.
I’m not trying to be a jerk. I haven’t spent a ton of time reading peer-reviewed articles on this issue, and I’m relatively time-poor. I would rather just read the ones that would cause a reasonable person concern.
The J&J vaccine is formulated like a regular vaccine, and IMHO the preferable option.
I prefer the [tried] and true, rather than being part of a global clinical trial.
So, is that the one you got? If not, why do you proclaim it as preferable when you have not actually heeded your own advice, and which one did you get in the alternative?
Actually, the J&J is a mDNA ‘vaccine’. The Novavax is more traditional, though not quite the same. It’s the same technology as the shingles vaccine, though, so it has been tested. It does use a form of the virus like traditional vaccines.
Or maybe they’ve just done their own research and have decided against it…like I have.
So, is J&J or Novavax the one you got? If not, why do you say it is acceptable for having been tested sufficiently (evidenced by FDA approval), and then contradict yourself by your action to not vaccinate?
I didn’t twist your words. I responded to what you said.
I supposed I have used loosely the word “research” to indicate “internet reading” at times, but, (I think), only on the most casual of information contexts, in conversation with people who know what I mean, or in reference to topics that don’t matter so much.
I am aware that “internet reading” can be either serious and thoughtful, or casual, or clueless, or stupid, etc (depending on a variety of factors).
I wondered exactly what you meant. You have clarified the remark.
and observationals from other medical professionals.
Testimonials have the same problems as anything else that is a testimonial. It lacks statistical validity and reliability. It would never be acceptable in a peer reviewed journal except as an unusual case study. Snake oil also relies on testimonials.
@f00l@mike808@Tadlem43 As a survivor of Necrotizing Fasciitis, I have spent the past 21+ years following protocols that most people only just started hearing about in 2020. (That has a higher death rate than covid.) I have a somewhat morbid, yet understandable, fear of re-exposure to strep. My stance isn’t a knee jerk reaction, I’ve read extensively AMA, CDC materials, and spoken with physicians, an epidemiologist, and know someone who was on the team that came up with AZT. Eight months clinical trials of the first mass produced mRNA vaccines, and approved on an emergency basis does not rest well with me. Remember thalidomide? PhenFen? Ratididine? Accutane? And they went though much more extensive pre-release trials.
Reading VAERS is off putting, but not the basis of my personal decision. My conversations, and seeing 3 direct adverse developments within our family and friends circle is enough. One heart attack, one stroke, and one paraplegic. All in 3 healthy, no underlying comorbitities, active people in their early 50s, all within 36 hours of their first dose of a mRNA vaccine. All three got their shots against the advice of the epidemiologist.
Ironically, the physicians and nurses in our group were among the first to receive the vaccine, and they were the only ones to develop a case of covid, albeit mild. Those who have not had the shot, including a few essential workers, have remained test negative for the past year +.
I am far from an anti-vaxxer, just this particular one. If it wasn’t for the reformulated Vancomycin, I wouldn’t be here - go medicine.
While that is true, what that overlooks is that the number of people in those clinical trials is far beyond the numbers in usual clinical trials. Some reasons why drug and vaccination clinical trials take so long are that it takes time, lots of time, often years, to get even the minimally required number of people to sign up (many clinical trials never reach that) and because those numbers are so slow in coming it takes a long time to gather information about rare side effects.
When you have a situation where you have gazillion people signing up for clinical trials statistically the odds of finding out about rare side effects/outcomes/problems are higher and it is much faster to discover the actual efficacy of of something be it a vaccination or treatment. So in this case, even though the period of time has been short, the number of subjects in these trials has far, far exceeded the number of people you need to get the statistical power you need to make a determination. Thus is it NOT problematic that it is only 8 months. AND because the number of subjects has been a landslide number you have far exceeded the number of subjects needed to draw statistically valid conclusions.
@mike808 I have received neither. I have not gotten vaccinated, and I won’t with the mRNA or mDNA ‘vaccines’.
The Novavax hasn’t been approved yet, so it isn’t available. I was speaking of the technology that has been tested, not the vaccine, itself. It’s undergoing testing now.
@f00l@Faffs@mike808 I communicate, for example, with other medical professionals that are on the front lines all over the country. They have experiences that aren’t found in any other place, and will relay those experiences to other healthcare professionals. Some, like closed groups, are more open about their experiences, but there are many sources, like open groups on FB, for example, where you can get in on healthcare chatter and see what they are experiencing, first hand.
Some sites are more sophisticated than others, with writings and more clinical observations, some are more casual where they simply convey their daily experiences with others.
@f00l@kevinrs@Limewater The problem that I have with sharing sites is that someone who IS a jerk will find a way to discredit it, no matter how authentic the site is. I’m not playing that game.
I’ll have a civil, respectful conversation with anyone at any time, but I won’t set myself up to be disrespected.
There are, for example, people who have spoken the truth about all of this, and are immediately discredited because of it.
A good example is Dr. Robert Malone, one of the inventors of the mRNA technology. Dr. Malone is a leading authority, but he made the comment in passing that he helped with the vaccine (meaning that he worked on the technology) and that was twisted into him saying it was the actual vaccine (contents), and now they’ve tried to discredit his entire career. If there’s anyone who understands the intricacies of this technology, it’s Dr. Malone, but many mainstream sites will even go so far as to call him a ‘quack’ because they misinterpreted his comment.
People have become so emotionally involved in this that they’ve lost common courtesy and respect if it doesn’t agree with their feelings on it.
But you don’t have the insight into long term effects.
That is correct, but there is also the issue of relative risk. I only just an hour ago finished reviewing an article for the British Medical Journal that pretty much included the entire population of the UK (universal health care so unlike the USA they can look at huge databases over time). I was stunned at the differences between the been vaccinated vs not vaccinated groups on a number of their variables (and they had a lot and could have a lot because their n was a bunch of millions of people).
Because of confidentiality in the review process I can’t discuss the article or their findings, and I sure hope it is published soon, but I’d say the risks of not getting vaccinated if ALL the people who are not vaccinated are not taking the same precautions you are (well unless you are a recluse/hermit) then you are taking a far greater risk than if you had been vaccinated. Is covid a larger risk than a risk that may surface in 40 years as a long term side effect? Who knows at this point, but the risk of covid, especially the Delta variant, isn’t trivial.
Add to that the finding that the amount of covid in the nasal cavities of the vaccinated and unvaccinated are the same, if the vaccinated aren’t masking, etc, then likely you are at risk from them too. If you are dead of covid then long term side effects are not going to be relevant to you anyway.
Like anything else, we will never know everything, everything in life has some risks, balancing risks is what many decisions boil down to. And of course population risks don’t tell what will happen to you. You could be “lucky” or not. When I was deciding what to do about chemo (I’ve had 3 cancers) the absolute risk (95%CI) of my second breast cancer returning (based on my oncotypedx score) if I refused chemo (which was advised to do at the score I had) and refused an aromatase inhibitor (which was advised not to do at the score I had) was 4-12% with doing nothing beyond a mastectomy. It was 2-6% if I did the tamoxifen or equilvalent. I gambled and refused it because I needed a functioning brain and I already knew, for other reasons, that taking that would likely seriously affect my memory. So far so good. Of course I also gambled I wouldn’t get BC on the other side when the risk was less than 10% and lost that gamble. Oops.
When I looked at the chemos I could do for the follicular non-hodgkin’s lymphoma all of them had some pretty nasty side effects with pretty high probabilities of suffering at least some of them, some of which likely would be permanent. But because I was more or less at the end of my natural life with untreated fnhl (was diagnosed about 12 years out in retrospect), I didn’t really have a choice. And I chose based on which side effects were common that I most wanted to avoid (eg heart damage so nope to that combination). My outcome was a mixed bag. Remission, fortunately, after 4 rounds rather than 6, but only had 4 rounds because I suffered a 1/1000 chance side effect and nearly had my bone marrow all killed. Fortunately, but not a given, it recovered. Would I make that same choice again? Yes because with the other combination available at the time 40-60% of the people had permanent heart damage. Doing nothing and I’d be dead now which I am sure would make at least 4 people who troll me on this forum happy. LOL. Of course now there are some other choices that weren’t available back then that have a different risk “bag”. Who knows what I’ll do when I need treated again (still on watch and wait fortunately as chemo in the middle of covid is not on my want list).
As you well know I am sure, sometimes choices are between the lessor of two evils when you can’t see into the future, don’t have complete information, and need to act now. I realize you don’t think you need to act now despite the fact that most covid hospitalizations/deaths are in the unvaccinated. Unfortunately for you we don’t know how many of those hospitalized unvaccinated weren’t taking adequate precautions. If you are lucky none of them were. If most were, well then good luck with that.
Your added problem is that even if you are taking precautions, if you aren’t wearing a fitted N95 and eye coverings since other research has documented you can get covid through exposure though your eyes tissue (so having to wear glasses, for the first time is a plus LOL), then you are more protecting others from you and are still at risk from others. Probably not at as much risk as if you weren’t following protection protocol at all, but still at more risk than if you were vaccinated.
Related to that is my safety depends on your (and other unvaccinated people’s) behavior too since I can still be one of the unlikely few to get it despite being vaccinated, my risk is higher due to an immune system cancer and death is more likely due to that too IF I am hospitalized (sits at around 51%, solid tumors about 36% and I’ve had both so who knows).
And, of course, the more covid running around the more likely we are to develop a variant that evades the vaccinations (and I believe it is the Lamba one we have in the USA now, although at low levels, where the mutation is on part of the spike that the vaccination attacks which may well make it easier for it to evade the vaccination). If other people’s choices didn’t affect me, I wouldn’t care what they did. But because they do, then I do.
@f00l@Limewater@Tadlem43 I looked up Dr Robert Malone, on his linked in and his website, he’s still claiming to be “the inventor of mRNA vaccines”, in no uncertain terms. Not a mention in passing, my read of it is that he’s claiming full credit.
RW Malone MD, LLC’s was co-founded and managed by Dr. Malone. The
inventor of mRNA vaccines and one of world’s foremost experts on
messenger mRNA therapeutics - having invented the field in 1988
The inventor of the core mRNA vaccine technologies (including the idea
of mRNA vaccines) and RNA transfection,
@f00l@Faffs@Kidsandliz I’m sorry you went through all of that, but am glad that your outcome, so far, has been positive!
You, yourself, admitting that the nasal viral load is about equal in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated, so I am no more of a threat to you than someone who is vaccinated. As a matter of fact, a vaccinated is probably more of a threat to you because they may be a carrier, and the vaccination may be keeping them from being symptomatic. Of course, anyone can be asymptomatic and still be a carrier, but that’s one of those unknown risks that you spoke of.
Vaccinations cause mutations, not the unvaccinated. I’ll let you do your own research on that, should you choose.
I do, sincerely, hope that you continue to well!
@f00l@Faffs@Tadlem43 The transmission of the virus is what causes mutations as the virus multiplies. ALL cells, viruses or not, are at risk of mutations as they divide and thus multiply. That is independent of anything else. There is less transmission when people are vaccinated thus fewer variants will develop and if the do they are less likely to spread.
Of course if a virus already has a mutation that allows it survive a vaccination response, then it will be the one to spread more rather than die. The, I believe it is, Lambda variant has a mutation that affects the spike protein and there is concern that because of that the current vaccinations aren’t going to be as effective against it.
And I would agree that for the safety of everyone that everyone, vaccinated or not, needs to wear a mask. Most of the vaccinated do not have virus in their nasal passages, only those who get sick with covid despite being vaccinated (and that is a very small number - the research paper I just reviewed addressed that looking at the bulk of the population of the UK). Some of those are asymptomatic and thus don’t know they have covid.
Anyone who is sick with covid - vaccinated or not - is a threat to others. The saving grace is that those who are vaccinated are far less likely to get very sick, to be admitted to the hospital or die. Roughly 95% of the patients admitted to the hospital for covid are the unvaccinated. Almost all who die of covid now (in the USA anyway) are unvaccinated.
The risk of dying of covid, even if vaccinated, is still higher for those who have pre-existing conditions that are relevant than those who are vaccinated who don’t have those conditions, but their numbers/% are still less than those who are unvaccinated who die of it.
hi. this is one of the best forum’s meh has ever had on it’s site. well thought out comments and opinions, even if not my own views, are nice to read. a good group of people hang out here. best to you all.
Yes, 43,661 healthy people participated, while the prior mRNA trials for cancer floundered for lack of qualified participants and poor efficacy, and only 101 healthy people participated in a trial for Zika, if I remember correctly. There are noted after effects that had not been a consideration during trials that affect only women: breakthrough bleeding in postmenopausal women, breakthrough bleeding and heavier and longer periods in menstruating women, close to 4000 cases reported in the UK alone. I can’t find the original article I read a few months ago that said there were about 5000 cases in the US. There’s no idea how they will be affected in the long term, which is why most clinical trials exclude females of childbearing age.
And the approval has not yet been converted from emergency experimental to full approval.
One of my aunts was given infected blood during heart surgery, same week, same hospital Arthur Ashe did. She outlived him, and was a participant in the clinical trials for AZT, and it was pure coincidence that my friend’s husband had been on the research team for it. So, I have a bit of a familiarity with clinical trials, from an observer’s perspective, a sponsor’s perspective, and personally as a participant for a new hypochlorous wound care solution.
Some of those drugs I mentioned not only had full approval after years of clinical trials, but had years of prescriptions given to thousands of people, yet were withdrawn for as few as 63 deaths over the course of years.
I still say go medicine, just not this one.
@Faffs So in the alternative, are you masking and social distancing like a mofo? Are you telling everyone else you can where you can that also decides not to get the life-jab for freedumb reasons to do the same (mask up and stay the fuck away from people) and stop telling politicians to interfere with masking and social distancing protocols that save lives, not endanger and end them?
@Tadlem43 You must have a different definition for “most” and “us” and “respectful”. I view those in the context of the entire country, and include following CDC protocols with maximizing vaccinations, and so far, it’s been none of them.
Especially in Misery, Alabama, and Louisiana where I have relatives I just want to survive other people’s the covidiots’ “choices” to put them in harms way by not vaccinating and ignoring protocols with the Delta variant driving the DeSantis, Abbott, Parsons, and Noem surges and new even worse variants in their respective states.
There seems to be a common vector for ongoing spread when a vaccine is freely available to all, and masking and social distancing are demonstrably effective. Wonder what it could be…
As I mentioned earlier, I have followed protocols for over 21 years that most people hadn’t even heard of or considered until 2020. That includes during several years of commuting on NYC subways, which are rolling petri dishes.
If “gubmint” talking heads could get their act together and show a modicum of consistency in what is and isn’t, what should and shouldn’t be done, not just on a Federal level, but state to state, masking and distancing would feel less odious and more appealing to those who blindly say no just 'cause.
Snark has been not part of the discourse here, I don’t know why you felt the need to use “freedumb”.
@Faffs If disinformation propagandist talking heads “right wing media” could get their act together and show a modicum of journalistic integrity instead of lowest-denominator ratings-chasing chaos-mongers and not perpetuate the absolutely vile falsehoods and lies that the “gubmint” is somehow confused about not wanting to kill its citizenry.
The folks in “gubmint” that are pushing policies and new laws with one goal - the unrestrained spreading of the virus that demonstrably drives the real-time evolution of even worse variations - are the ones creating this myth you present as a unified “gubmint”. Those folks have a clear agenda - to undermine the legitimate authority of government elected this past November and create that confusion and cognitive dissonance you are experiencing. You are a victim as much as the believers of The Big Lie. And they’re willing to accept 600,000+ preventable deaths and counting to foment sedition.
Friends, please pray for my precious husband Stevewalsh2010. He is very sick and is in the hospital. We serve a miracle working God and tonight please help me get prayers lifted up for Steve’s healing and recovery. Steve is my sweet love and my best friend in the whole world.
— Sara Walsh (SaraForMissouri) August 4, 2021 Twitter
Sara Walsh, who serves as majority caucus chair for the Missouri House Republicans, told KRCG-TV Thursday that she chose not to get a COVID-19 vaccination because vaccines were not approved by the Food and Drug Administration and she had concerns about risk factors.
She also told the television station she didn’t want a vaccination because she hadn’t contracted the virus for more than a year.
She also said she had friends who had negative reactions to the vaccine and she was not concerned about being vaccinated because she had been healthy since the pandemic began.
Reached briefly by phone Friday, Sara Walsh was coughing and requested to communicate by text.
Looks like there is a growing trend, at least in Missouri, for businesses to only allow un-vaccinated patrons inside. I think it will be a short-lived trend.
I guess “DeathCab Taxi” was already taken, so they called it “Yo Taxi”.
@mike808 What I want to know is how are they determining someone is unvaccinated? You can’t prove it. All someone has to do is say they are unvaccinated.
Essentially they are saying they don’t believe covid is real, and they believe some of the farther out there conspiracies, that vaccines and masks are for some kind of mind control or implanting tracking chips, or the vaccines are the real and only cause of Covid.
What I think some people should get organized and do, on a flash mob level, is go to these businesses with these antivax policies, and at a set time, start coughing severely, maybe even have some prop mucus and blood, and then all disappear.
@mike808 I didn’t think they needed a tracking chip, it’s that some people appear to honestly believe that vaccines contain them, or mind control chips or similar.
why would anyone want to give a unvetted for emergency use only vaccine that ain’t even a vaccine cause even after you get the jab
you can get the vid or get it again and spread it to others even with the jab?
because lots of sources are saying it does not prevent you from getting the vid or prevent you from spreading the vid? only helps you not to die from it. so they say.
(and don’t even ask me to to provide sources they are everywhere look it up for your damn selves)
TO OUR CHILDREN! who are not even effected by it to protect old ass adults who pretty much only die from it if they are obese and/or immune compromised from other health issues.
i can not believe how paranoid and afraid and self serving grown ass people have become.
@mick We give them the vaccine to not have them die from covid and to prevent the massive strain on hospitals, doctors, nurses, and the healthcare sysyem, but mainly so they don’t die from this preventable illness.
Missouri was one of three states that saw its number of confirmed cases of children with Covid-19 jump by more than 80% in late July, according to a national study, as the nation reported nearly 100,000 new cases among children over that span.
I don’t know what Facebook group or wingnut “news” sources you are getting your information from, but they’re exaggerating the facts (at best) and outright lying to you at worst to make you believe their false propaganda.
NOT vaccinating children is a death sentence or lifelong debilitation. Or did I misunderstand you saying you support killing babies on purpose when we have a lifesaving preventative vaccine we can give them?
I think the odds of experimenting with your child’s survival from COVID by not getting the vaccine are even worse. But, hey, you have the freedom to kill your kid to find out.
@mick The stats are that 95% of the people hospitalized with covid are the unvaccinated. Almost all of the people who die of it are unvaccinated. The morning national news talked about all the young kids in the hospital with covid, a number that is rapidly growing, and some are dying from it. Almost all people who are vaccinated do NOT get covid. The covid vaccination protects people better from covid than the flu vaccination protects people from flu. Fewer people die from flu than die from covid.
Good for them. I’ll have to spend some money there to show my support for their clear position to not cater to those who choose not to protect themselves or others.
@mike808 hope you like it! I’m planning a trip down myself
@tinamarie1974 Here’s the info.
https://www.oconnells-pub.com/
4652 Shaw Ave, St. Louis, MO 63110
It’s down by 44 & Kingshighway.
Apparently the burgers and roast beef get high marks.
@mike808 yeah thanks! I’ve been there a few times. Pre-covid it was fairly close to my office. Great lunch spot!!
Have you been to The Freedom Cafe?
![](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw==)
Source: LibbyJones715
@mike808 hhuuummmm might skip that one![:wink:](https://dj5zo597wtsux.cloudfront.net/joypixels/assets/6.6/png/unicode/64/1f609.png)
@mike808 @tinamarie1974 I don’t seem to be seeing “like” buttons for posts that end in images or links. Is that just me, or are others experiencing it too?
@Limewater The button is at the top of this post.
@Kidsandliz Oh yeah, I’m just being stupid. It’s working exactly the way it always has. The problem is me. Thanks!
@Limewater You have 9 free stupids left today. Use them carefully.
![:wink:](https://dj5zo597wtsux.cloudfront.net/joypixels/assets/6.6/png/unicode/64/1f609.png)
@mike808 Well, probably wouldn’t go inside, but maybe I can pick up some “Freedom Fries” to go.
Rehab Recovery Cafe has the same policy.
@mike808 Rehab in the Grove? I heard both Rehab and Just John’s recently adopted the policy. Haven’t been to either in years.
@tinamarie1974 I haven’t been to rehab in years also.![:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:](https://dj5zo597wtsux.cloudfront.net/joypixels/assets/6.6/png/unicode/64/1f61d.png)
/giphy applause
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Recent updates from the “political crazies” beat:
ATexas Republican leader who was hospitalized with COVID-19 died Wednesday, just days after he shared a post on social media questioning the effectiveness of the coronavirus vaccine.
Tx Republican Scott Appley was 45 years old when he died.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/566513-texas-republican-leader-dies-of-covid-19-five-days-after-anti
Rep. Ralph Norman, one of the three congressional Republicans suing Speaker Nancy Pelosi over fines for not wearing masks during a vote on the U.S. House floor, has contracted a breakthrough case of COVID-19, the second member of South Carolina’s delegation to do so.
https://www.wsls.com/news/politics/2021/08/05/house-lawmaker-suing-pelosi-over-mask-rule-says-he-has-covid/
@f00l So, Norman WAS vaccinated? Isn’t that what a breakthrough case is?
@Tadlem43
He seems to have been vaccinated, per that article and other reports.
He sued Pelosi over the Speaker’s mask mandate.
It’s been widely publicized for some time that vaccinated persons can get breakthru Covid infections and then shed virus, even if they do not realize they are infected;
and much data exists indicating that mask-wearing in places where people gather limits one’s odds of getting or spreading infections (whether vaccinated or not).
@f00l @Tadlem43
This
Being vaccinated does not make you impervious to the virus. It just means your symptoms are so diminished that may not even know you are infected, and more importantly, not know you are spreading it.
Social distancing and masking works, and the bottom line is it saves other people’s lives, while being vaccinated saves yours.
One would think all those pro-lifers would be first in line to get vaccinated and to mask up and stop the senseless killing of the “already born” from spreading the virus. That they haven’t and don’t after 600,000 deaths proves their true motivation isn’t at all about “protecting the unborn”, but about the misogynistic opression of women through forced birth to produce male heirs and perpetuate the patriarchy.
@f00l @mike808 @Tadlem43 I don’t think it proves this at all.
You are absolutely correct that these two courses of action cannot be reconciled, but I think the people involved are blind to it.
I can also point to Philippians 2:3-4, for example, about why Christians should be falling over each other to accept an incredibly minor inconvenience in service to the health and safety of others. Yet in Evangelical Protestant congregations, including my own, many or most members are completely unwilling to wear masks while they still uphold that the Bible as the divinely-inspired word of G^d.
Again, you can and should absolutely bring that up as an issue. Your mistake is expecting people to actually think about their positions and actions at all.
Many (most?) pro-lifers (of which I am one) oppose abortion to protect the unborn, and many (most?) pro-lifers oppose masks because of “freedom!” Don’t think about it any harder than that because they certainly aren’t.
@f00l @mike808 @Tadlem43 I should add, I know that I have held incompatible positions in the past. I most likely still do. You probably have and do as well.
I like to think that, when I become aware of this, usually through discussion or argument with others, I make adjustments to positions that contradict my expressed values and world-view. Hopefully you do the same.
Most people don’t, though. They seem to just go with their gut on any particular issue and not think about it too hard. But man, they sure have feelings.
For what it’s worth, both major U.S. political parties are also a horrible mess of incompatible positions. This gives them both ample opportunity to pick at the inconsistencies on the “other side” as long as they don’t think about themselves too much. It’s gross. I believe the Republicans have been worse about this lately, at least, and I say this as someone who trends very conservative.
@Limewater
On pro-life, I am, but I don’t get a choice being a man, and my position is I have no say in a woman’s life decisions or circumstances any more than I do for a neighbor down the street or a stranger across town. So me saying what you can and can’t do with your vagina cannot be reconciled with you saying to me that I have to get the vaccine and wear a mask.
I think the “mess” is in large part due to legalized bribery, aka “dark money”, and Citizens United (anonymous money equals irresponsible unaccountabile speech), and gerrymandering (a consequence of our Senate construction as a way to compromise with the Southern slave-owning colonies giving outsized voting power to rural/farming citizens (remember, only non-enslaved men could vote, which meant that the South had far, far less voters than the Northern colonies with large cities) that was mirrored in the states legislatures.
Combined with short-attention-span-theatre-as-journalism, equal platforming of careful, reasoned, and rational speech with raving lunacy and hate speech, we end up with “whomever has the loudest bullhorn to say the most outrageous things gets the most voters pissed off enough to go vote” system. Moderate candidates get primaried out of races, and the most extreme nutjobs end up in office with the entrenched and institutionalized incumbency of a political class. Hence MTG and Gaetz are who we get in the House, along with the Cruz, Hawley, Tuberville, and Johnson wingnuts in the Senate.
@f00l @Limewater @mike808 @Tadlem43 The go “with gut” part I think has some additional punch to it with the vaccine issue. I’m wondering what the % of people pre pandemic was that admitted a fear of needles/blood, and refused things like flu vaccines, because I think most of those have latched on to the conspiracy theories, politicians and others implying or outright saying to not get vaccinated with an “experimental” vaccine, and one particular politician casting distrust on anything the media says, allowing people to pick and choose to believe what they want to believe.
I think those who’ve grabbed onto these antivax ideas, and have a core primal fear of needles underneath it are going to be a real problem in getting the vaccination rate high enough to end this.
Before delta variant we needed 70+% to reach herd immunity, but that counts children, so we needed almost all adults to get vaccinated. Based on that, we really need children under 12 to get vaccinated to overcome the “reluctant” that are holding things back. With delta being more contagious, we probably need both children getting vaccinated, and more adults, probably need 90% of total population vaccinated to really get back to normal.
@f00l @kevinrs @Limewater @mike808 Or maybe they’ve just done their own research and have decided against it…like I have.
@Tadlem43
You mentioned research.
You ran academically approved/scientifically and statistically valid clinical trials?
@f00l No, but I can read. It’s disingenuous to try to twist my words.
@f00l @Tadlem43 Read what? There is lots of stuff on the internet that’s completely false. Did you read actual trial sources or anything? Or just someone else’s post claiming side effects?
I see lots of claims like yours claiming to have done “research” but if it was real you could point to what sources led you to your conclusion.
I could just as easily claim the world is flat, and that I read about it.
@f00l @Tadlem43 CV19 vaccine is the 1st mRNA mass produced and distributed and after only 8 months of clinical trials, under an emergency approval. Prior to this vaccine, mRNA vaccines were still experimental, under consideration for use against Zika, rabies, and there was a small clinical trial for its use as a cancer fighting tool.
Most vaccines undergo 10-15 years of clinical trials before full approval for release.
This is information readily available on AMA, CDC, and other reputable sites.
In reality, the normal clinical trials are being conducted on everyone who is getting the mRNA vaccine. The J&J vaccine is formulated like a regular vaccine, and IMHO the preferable option.
@f00l @kevinrs The information is all available online for anyone to read. Use a good search engine.
I am a medical professional with over 40 years of experience. I read peer reviewed studies from medical/scientific sites and observationals from other medical professionals. Both are open for anyone to research and read for themselves.
@f00l @Faffs Actually, the J&J is a mDNA ‘vaccine’. The Novavax is more traditional, though not quite the same. It’s the same technology as the shingles vaccine, though, so it has been tested. It does use a form of the virus like traditional vaccines.
@f00l @Tadlem43 It uses a disabled adenovirus, not a coronavirus to deliver the “instructions”, and cannot replicate in our bodies. This methodology has been around since the 70s. I prefer the trued and true, rather than being part of a global clinical trial.
@f00l @Faffs @Tadlem43
So the real question is do you also follow the protocols required for those who do not vaccinate just as adamantly?
As in masking, social distancing, and avoiding congregations to the maximum extent possible?
Do you encourage and support others who choose as you do to do the same and put and end to the pandemic or do you avoid responsibility for your choice and its impact on everyone else while simultaneously demanding everyone else be responsible for your safety and health when you get COVID or the Delta variant? As in the form of our taxpayer-funded healthcare, technology, and educational systems and institutions that will care for not just you, but also your family, workplace, and the communities you participate in (that spreads the virus, or contracts it, or both) and support your lifestyle of choosing to remain vulnerable and a burden on society in the absence of an equitable contribution in exchange for your “freedom”?
@f00l @Faffs @Tadlem43
Is any of your hesitancy to vaccinate based on your research sourced from VAERS?
@f00l @kevinrs @Tadlem43
Great! Then it should be easy for you to link to one of the several you found convincing in reaching your conclusion.
I’m not trying to be a jerk. I haven’t spent a ton of time reading peer-reviewed articles on this issue, and I’m relatively time-poor. I would rather just read the ones that would cause a reasonable person concern.
@Faffs said:
So, is that the one you got? If not, why do you proclaim it as preferable when you have not actually heeded your own advice, and which one did you get in the alternative?
@Tadlem43 said:
So, is J&J or Novavax the one you got? If not, why do you say it is acceptable for having been tested sufficiently (evidenced by FDA approval), and then contradict yourself by your action to not vaccinate?
@Tadlem43
I didn’t twist your words. I responded to what you said.
I supposed I have used loosely the word “research” to indicate “internet reading” at times, but, (I think), only on the most casual of information contexts, in conversation with people who know what I mean, or in reference to topics that don’t matter so much.
I am aware that “internet reading” can be either serious and thoughtful, or casual, or clueless, or stupid, etc (depending on a variety of factors).
I wondered exactly what you meant. You have clarified the remark.
@f00l @kevinrs @Tadlem43
Testimonials have the same problems as anything else that is a testimonial. It lacks statistical validity and reliability. It would never be acceptable in a peer reviewed journal except as an unusual case study. Snake oil also relies on testimonials.
@f00l @mike808 @Tadlem43 As a survivor of Necrotizing Fasciitis, I have spent the past 21+ years following protocols that most people only just started hearing about in 2020. (That has a higher death rate than covid.) I have a somewhat morbid, yet understandable, fear of re-exposure to strep. My stance isn’t a knee jerk reaction, I’ve read extensively AMA, CDC materials, and spoken with physicians, an epidemiologist, and know someone who was on the team that came up with AZT. Eight months clinical trials of the first mass produced mRNA vaccines, and approved on an emergency basis does not rest well with me. Remember thalidomide? PhenFen? Ratididine? Accutane? And they went though much more extensive pre-release trials.
Reading VAERS is off putting, but not the basis of my personal decision. My conversations, and seeing 3 direct adverse developments within our family and friends circle is enough. One heart attack, one stroke, and one paraplegic. All in 3 healthy, no underlying comorbitities, active people in their early 50s, all within 36 hours of their first dose of a mRNA vaccine. All three got their shots against the advice of the epidemiologist.
Ironically, the physicians and nurses in our group were among the first to receive the vaccine, and they were the only ones to develop a case of covid, albeit mild. Those who have not had the shot, including a few essential workers, have remained test negative for the past year +.
I am far from an anti-vaxxer, just this particular one. If it wasn’t for the reformulated Vancomycin, I wouldn’t be here - go medicine.
@f00l @Faffs @Tadlem43
While that is true, what that overlooks is that the number of people in those clinical trials is far beyond the numbers in usual clinical trials. Some reasons why drug and vaccination clinical trials take so long are that it takes time, lots of time, often years, to get even the minimally required number of people to sign up (many clinical trials never reach that) and because those numbers are so slow in coming it takes a long time to gather information about rare side effects.
When you have a situation where you have gazillion people signing up for clinical trials statistically the odds of finding out about rare side effects/outcomes/problems are higher and it is much faster to discover the actual efficacy of of something be it a vaccination or treatment. So in this case, even though the period of time has been short, the number of subjects in these trials has far, far exceeded the number of people you need to get the statistical power you need to make a determination. Thus is it NOT problematic that it is only 8 months. AND because the number of subjects has been a landslide number you have far exceeded the number of subjects needed to draw statistically valid conclusions.
@f00l @Faffs @mike808 No. It has nothing to do with VAERS.
@f00l @Faffs @mike808 Yes, I mask, social distance, and avoid congregations.
I’m not answering bullying rhetoric.
@mike808 I have received neither. I have not gotten vaccinated, and I won’t with the mRNA or mDNA ‘vaccines’.
The Novavax hasn’t been approved yet, so it isn’t available. I was speaking of the technology that has been tested, not the vaccine, itself. It’s undergoing testing now.
@f00l @Faffs @mike808 I communicate, for example, with other medical professionals that are on the front lines all over the country. They have experiences that aren’t found in any other place, and will relay those experiences to other healthcare professionals. Some, like closed groups, are more open about their experiences, but there are many sources, like open groups on FB, for example, where you can get in on healthcare chatter and see what they are experiencing, first hand.
Some sites are more sophisticated than others, with writings and more clinical observations, some are more casual where they simply convey their daily experiences with others.
@f00l @Faffs @Kidsandliz But you don’t have the insight into long term effects. That’s the sticking point for a lot of people, myself included.
@f00l @kevinrs @Limewater The problem that I have with sharing sites is that someone who IS a jerk will find a way to discredit it, no matter how authentic the site is. I’m not playing that game.
I’ll have a civil, respectful conversation with anyone at any time, but I won’t set myself up to be disrespected.
There are, for example, people who have spoken the truth about all of this, and are immediately discredited because of it.
A good example is Dr. Robert Malone, one of the inventors of the mRNA technology. Dr. Malone is a leading authority, but he made the comment in passing that he helped with the vaccine (meaning that he worked on the technology) and that was twisted into him saying it was the actual vaccine (contents), and now they’ve tried to discredit his entire career. If there’s anyone who understands the intricacies of this technology, it’s Dr. Malone, but many mainstream sites will even go so far as to call him a ‘quack’ because they misinterpreted his comment.
People have become so emotionally involved in this that they’ve lost common courtesy and respect if it doesn’t agree with their feelings on it.
@f00l @Faffs @Tadlem43
That is correct, but there is also the issue of relative risk. I only just an hour ago finished reviewing an article for the British Medical Journal that pretty much included the entire population of the UK (universal health care so unlike the USA they can look at huge databases over time). I was stunned at the differences between the been vaccinated vs not vaccinated groups on a number of their variables (and they had a lot and could have a lot because their n was a bunch of millions of people).
Because of confidentiality in the review process I can’t discuss the article or their findings, and I sure hope it is published soon, but I’d say the risks of not getting vaccinated if ALL the people who are not vaccinated are not taking the same precautions you are (well unless you are a recluse/hermit) then you are taking a far greater risk than if you had been vaccinated. Is covid a larger risk than a risk that may surface in 40 years as a long term side effect? Who knows at this point, but the risk of covid, especially the Delta variant, isn’t trivial.
Add to that the finding that the amount of covid in the nasal cavities of the vaccinated and unvaccinated are the same, if the vaccinated aren’t masking, etc, then likely you are at risk from them too. If you are dead of covid then long term side effects are not going to be relevant to you anyway.
Like anything else, we will never know everything, everything in life has some risks, balancing risks is what many decisions boil down to. And of course population risks don’t tell what will happen to you. You could be “lucky” or not. When I was deciding what to do about chemo (I’ve had 3 cancers) the absolute risk (95%CI) of my second breast cancer returning (based on my oncotypedx score) if I refused chemo (which was advised to do at the score I had) and refused an aromatase inhibitor (which was advised not to do at the score I had) was 4-12% with doing nothing beyond a mastectomy. It was 2-6% if I did the tamoxifen or equilvalent. I gambled and refused it because I needed a functioning brain and I already knew, for other reasons, that taking that would likely seriously affect my memory. So far so good. Of course I also gambled I wouldn’t get BC on the other side when the risk was less than 10% and lost that gamble. Oops.
When I looked at the chemos I could do for the follicular non-hodgkin’s lymphoma all of them had some pretty nasty side effects with pretty high probabilities of suffering at least some of them, some of which likely would be permanent. But because I was more or less at the end of my natural life with untreated fnhl (was diagnosed about 12 years out in retrospect), I didn’t really have a choice. And I chose based on which side effects were common that I most wanted to avoid (eg heart damage so nope to that combination). My outcome was a mixed bag. Remission, fortunately, after 4 rounds rather than 6, but only had 4 rounds because I suffered a 1/1000 chance side effect and nearly had my bone marrow all killed. Fortunately, but not a given, it recovered. Would I make that same choice again? Yes because with the other combination available at the time 40-60% of the people had permanent heart damage. Doing nothing and I’d be dead now which I am sure would make at least 4 people who troll me on this forum happy. LOL. Of course now there are some other choices that weren’t available back then that have a different risk “bag”. Who knows what I’ll do when I need treated again (still on watch and wait fortunately as chemo in the middle of covid is not on my want list).
As you well know I am sure, sometimes choices are between the lessor of two evils when you can’t see into the future, don’t have complete information, and need to act now. I realize you don’t think you need to act now despite the fact that most covid hospitalizations/deaths are in the unvaccinated. Unfortunately for you we don’t know how many of those hospitalized unvaccinated weren’t taking adequate precautions. If you are lucky none of them were. If most were, well then good luck with that.
Your added problem is that even if you are taking precautions, if you aren’t wearing a fitted N95 and eye coverings since other research has documented you can get covid through exposure though your eyes tissue (so having to wear glasses, for the first time is a plus LOL), then you are more protecting others from you and are still at risk from others. Probably not at as much risk as if you weren’t following protection protocol at all, but still at more risk than if you were vaccinated.
Related to that is my safety depends on your (and other unvaccinated people’s) behavior too since I can still be one of the unlikely few to get it despite being vaccinated, my risk is higher due to an immune system cancer and death is more likely due to that too IF I am hospitalized (sits at around 51%, solid tumors about 36% and I’ve had both so who knows).
And, of course, the more covid running around the more likely we are to develop a variant that evades the vaccinations (and I believe it is the Lamba one we have in the USA now, although at low levels, where the mutation is on part of the spike that the vaccination attacks which may well make it easier for it to evade the vaccination). If other people’s choices didn’t affect me, I wouldn’t care what they did. But because they do, then I do.
@f00l @Limewater @Tadlem43 I looked up Dr Robert Malone, on his linked in and his website, he’s still claiming to be “the inventor of mRNA vaccines”, in no uncertain terms. Not a mention in passing, my read of it is that he’s claiming full credit.
@f00l @kevinrs @Limewater @Tadlem43
This sounds like it is closer to the “true” story. The source is pretty credible
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/
Be easy enough to look up to see who has the actual patents, besides the one woman mentioned in the article.
@f00l @Faffs @Kidsandliz I’m sorry you went through all of that, but am glad that your outcome, so far, has been positive!
You, yourself, admitting that the nasal viral load is about equal in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated, so I am no more of a threat to you than someone who is vaccinated. As a matter of fact, a vaccinated is probably more of a threat to you because they may be a carrier, and the vaccination may be keeping them from being symptomatic. Of course, anyone can be asymptomatic and still be a carrier, but that’s one of those unknown risks that you spoke of.
Vaccinations cause mutations, not the unvaccinated. I’ll let you do your own research on that, should you choose.
I do, sincerely, hope that you continue to well!
@f00l @kevinrs @Limewater ok
If you think I’m going to argue with you, I’ll have to disappoint you.
@f00l @Faffs @Tadlem43 The transmission of the virus is what causes mutations as the virus multiplies. ALL cells, viruses or not, are at risk of mutations as they divide and thus multiply. That is independent of anything else. There is less transmission when people are vaccinated thus fewer variants will develop and if the do they are less likely to spread.
Of course if a virus already has a mutation that allows it survive a vaccination response, then it will be the one to spread more rather than die. The, I believe it is, Lambda variant has a mutation that affects the spike protein and there is concern that because of that the current vaccinations aren’t going to be as effective against it.
And I would agree that for the safety of everyone that everyone, vaccinated or not, needs to wear a mask. Most of the vaccinated do not have virus in their nasal passages, only those who get sick with covid despite being vaccinated (and that is a very small number - the research paper I just reviewed addressed that looking at the bulk of the population of the UK). Some of those are asymptomatic and thus don’t know they have covid.
Anyone who is sick with covid - vaccinated or not - is a threat to others. The saving grace is that those who are vaccinated are far less likely to get very sick, to be admitted to the hospital or die. Roughly 95% of the patients admitted to the hospital for covid are the unvaccinated. Almost all who die of covid now (in the USA anyway) are unvaccinated.
The risk of dying of covid, even if vaccinated, is still higher for those who have pre-existing conditions that are relevant than those who are vaccinated who don’t have those conditions, but their numbers/% are still less than those who are unvaccinated who die of it.
hi. this is one of the best forum’s meh has ever had on it’s site. well thought out comments and opinions, even if not my own views, are nice to read. a good group of people hang out here. best to you all.
Yes, 43,661 healthy people participated, while the prior mRNA trials for cancer floundered for lack of qualified participants and poor efficacy, and only 101 healthy people participated in a trial for Zika, if I remember correctly. There are noted after effects that had not been a consideration during trials that affect only women: breakthrough bleeding in postmenopausal women, breakthrough bleeding and heavier and longer periods in menstruating women, close to 4000 cases reported in the UK alone. I can’t find the original article I read a few months ago that said there were about 5000 cases in the US. There’s no idea how they will be affected in the long term, which is why most clinical trials exclude females of childbearing age.
And the approval has not yet been converted from emergency experimental to full approval.
One of my aunts was given infected blood during heart surgery, same week, same hospital Arthur Ashe did. She outlived him, and was a participant in the clinical trials for AZT, and it was pure coincidence that my friend’s husband had been on the research team for it. So, I have a bit of a familiarity with clinical trials, from an observer’s perspective, a sponsor’s perspective, and personally as a participant for a new hypochlorous wound care solution.
Some of those drugs I mentioned not only had full approval after years of clinical trials, but had years of prescriptions given to thousands of people, yet were withdrawn for as few as 63 deaths over the course of years.
I still say go medicine, just not this one.
@Faffs So in the alternative, are you masking and social distancing like a mofo? Are you telling everyone else you can where you can that also decides not to get the life-jab for freedumb reasons to do the same (mask up and stay the fuck away from people) and stop telling politicians to interfere with masking and social distancing protocols that save lives, not endanger and end them?
@mike808 It seems like most of us have chosen to remain respectful.
@Tadlem43 You must have a different definition for “most” and “us” and “respectful”. I view those in the context of the entire country, and include following CDC protocols with maximizing vaccinations, and so far, it’s been none of them.
Especially in Misery, Alabama, and Louisiana where I have relatives I just want to survive other people’s
the covidiots’“choices” to put them in harms way by not vaccinating and ignoring protocols with the Delta variant driving the DeSantis, Abbott, Parsons, and Noem surges and new even worse variants in their respective states.There seems to be a common vector for ongoing spread when a vaccine is freely available to all, and masking and social distancing are demonstrably effective. Wonder what it could be…
@mike808 If I explained it to you, you wouldn’t understand. I won’t waste my time.
Have a nice day!
As I mentioned earlier, I have followed protocols for over 21 years that most people hadn’t even heard of or considered until 2020. That includes during several years of commuting on NYC subways, which are rolling petri dishes.
If “gubmint” talking heads could get their act together and show a modicum of consistency in what is and isn’t, what should and shouldn’t be done, not just on a Federal level, but state to state, masking and distancing would feel less odious and more appealing to those who blindly say no just 'cause.
Snark has been not part of the discourse here, I don’t know why you felt the need to use “freedumb”.
@Faffs If disinformation propagandist talking heads “right wing media” could get their act together and show a modicum of journalistic integrity instead of lowest-denominator ratings-chasing chaos-mongers and not perpetuate the absolutely vile falsehoods and lies that the “gubmint” is somehow confused about not wanting to kill its citizenry.
The folks in “gubmint” that are pushing policies and new laws with one goal - the unrestrained spreading of the virus that demonstrably drives the real-time evolution of even worse variations - are the ones creating this myth you present as a unified “gubmint”. Those folks have a clear agenda - to undermine the legitimate authority of government elected this past November and create that confusion and cognitive dissonance you are experiencing. You are a victim as much as the believers of The Big Lie. And they’re willing to accept 600,000+ preventable deaths and counting to foment sedition.
@Faffs Looks like you’re in good company.
You have just gum flapped yourself out of consideration for adult discussion. Have a lovely day, bless your heart.
@Faffs Is that a southern bless your heart?![:rofl:](https://dj5zo597wtsux.cloudfront.net/joypixels/assets/6.6/png/unicode/64/1f923.png)
@Kidsandliz This life long Nu Yawka retired out to a flyover state, and learned a few helpful phrases![:wink:](https://dj5zo597wtsux.cloudfront.net/joypixels/assets/6.6/png/unicode/64/1f609.png)
@Faffs @Kidsandliz Yeah me too, the lingo is just… different. I only learned last year about that particular phrase.
@TinaMarie1974 did you see this one?
Looks like there is a growing trend, at least in Missouri, for businesses to only allow un-vaccinated patrons inside. I think it will be a short-lived trend.
I guess “DeathCab Taxi” was already taken, so they called it “Yo Taxi”.
@mike808 Well if the goal is to get rid of all the unvaccinated who are also behaving stupidly then I guess this is one way to do that.
@mike808 What I want to know is how are they determining someone is unvaccinated? You can’t prove it. All someone has to do is say they are unvaccinated.
Essentially they are saying they don’t believe covid is real, and they believe some of the farther out there conspiracies, that vaccines and masks are for some kind of mind control or implanting tracking chips, or the vaccines are the real and only cause of Covid.
What I think some people should get organized and do, on a flash mob level, is go to these businesses with these antivax policies, and at a set time, start coughing severely, maybe even have some prop mucus and blood, and then all disappear.
@mike808 yeah I saw it on Channel 2 last week. Absolutely ridiculous, but survival of the fittest and all
@Kidsandliz @mike808 Casketaxi?
@kevinrs There is no need for a tracking chip. There are several already in your phone that is on all the time.
This article is from 2017, four years ago, so the data collected by GOOG and AAPL has only grown.
https://medium.com/@brannondorsey/wi-fi-is-broken-3f6054210fa5
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Guess where the streets are in Chicago?
@Kidsandliz @mike808 … with Casketaxi, if you don’t make it to the end of your ride, they drop you off at the morgue for free!
@mike808 I didn’t think they needed a tracking chip, it’s that some people appear to honestly believe that vaccines contain them, or mind control chips or similar.
why would anyone want to give a unvetted for emergency use only vaccine that ain’t even a vaccine cause even after you get the jab
you can get the vid or get it again and spread it to others even with the jab?
because lots of sources are saying it does not prevent you from getting the vid or prevent you from spreading the vid? only helps you not to die from it. so they say.
(and don’t even ask me to to provide sources they are everywhere look it up for your damn selves)
TO OUR CHILDREN! who are not even effected by it to protect old ass adults who pretty much only die from it if they are obese and/or immune compromised from other health issues.
i can not believe how paranoid and afraid and self serving grown ass people have become.
dear god please just leave the kids alone.
@mick We give them the vaccine to not have them die from covid and to prevent the massive strain on hospitals, doctors, nurses, and the healthcare sysyem, but mainly so they don’t die from this preventable illness.
I don’t know what Facebook group or wingnut “news” sources you are getting your information from, but they’re exaggerating the facts (at best) and outright lying to you at worst to make you believe their false propaganda.
NOT vaccinating children is a death sentence or lifelong debilitation. Or did I misunderstand you saying you support killing babies on purpose when we have a lifesaving preventative vaccine we can give them?
I think the odds of experimenting with your child’s survival from COVID by not getting the vaccine are even worse. But, hey, you have the freedom to kill your kid to find out.
@mick The stats are that 95% of the people hospitalized with covid are the unvaccinated. Almost all of the people who die of it are unvaccinated. The morning national news talked about all the young kids in the hospital with covid, a number that is rapidly growing, and some are dying from it. Almost all people who are vaccinated do NOT get covid. The covid vaccination protects people better from covid than the flu vaccination protects people from flu. Fewer people die from flu than die from covid.
@mick The vaccine doesn’t “kill” the virus. It stops it from killing you.
I don’t think you understand how immunity works.