My daughter wants to buy a Mac. Any tips?

@yakkoTDI Good advice (the M2 is the more recent chip - buy recent for longevity), and make sure she has the top amount of memory she can buy as you can’t add it later. That will help it last longer as it ages (program bloat and so you have enough memory to handle it). Also buy apple care.

@f00l

or else a Mac desktop (mini is prob fine) and a win laptop

Or a Chromebook. You can do a hell of a lot of schoolwork and more on a decent Chromebook. Not the $99 one, but $300 buys a very capable one. Less if Meh or Woot has it.

@compunaut thank you so much for the price breakdown!

@compunaut @k4evryng Also look on the apple website for their refurbished ones. Also look on the educational apple website for the education price.

@djslack

I just bought a WD sold refurb or return external drive from the WD EBay store.

Since I didn’t get it new, and don’t know whether the usage history data may have been reset by WD, nothing essential will go on the drive.

But hey.
4TB $50.
I liked that part.

@romellex I love the Apple refurbs. 2 of my previous iPads are refurbs from them and they have been great!! I will keep an eye out on there!

@k4evryng @romellex And don’t forget apple care. Worth it if the battery needs replaced before the 3 years are up (or other repairs).

@k4evryng sorry about the cyber Monday timing. Good music software doesn’t have to be expensive. It can even be free or cheap, depending on what it is. There are certain applications that are Mac only, though, and others that are PC only. If she’s set on logic pro or even GarageBand, that could dictate that she does in fact need a Mac.

If she doesn’t actually have the specifics in mind and spending $2K is a lot of money (for most of us it is) she really should do some homework before splashing out your and her cash. A MacBook isn’t going to let her down in life at all, but it could be unnecessary and free up half that budget for keyboards, microphones, audio interfaces, or other equipment, all of which is also expensive.

And if it does have to be a Mac, look into student pricing. Go to apple’s website and check there. Check your local college bookstore. Apple loves to give students discounts to get them into the walled garden. Education price for that MacBook pro is $1849. MacBook Air M1/16/256 is $1259 but with a 13.3" screen.

@k4evryng That doesn’t make you a mean mom at all! You are in the right to insist she pay for something she doesn’t really NEED. $2,000 for a laptop is a lot of money, especially when what she says she wants to do with it can be done for a lot less.

@djslack yup…I’d really like to not spend that much…and I hate to see her throw her money away. It’s a lot….especially for a laptop. (I totally get the expense for those that need a high level of performance, but in our case, I don’t think the need is that great.)

But I suppose if she’s dead set on forking out her life savings on this, and then she regrets it later, she can just chalk it up to a valuable life lesson (and that she should have listened to her mother…).

I’ll look into the music software options. That’s a whole different area that I have no clue about.

@PooltoyWolf I couldn’t agree with you more! She wants to play fast and loose with money she doesn’t have. My son is doing fine in college with his $400 laptop from BJ’s.

I’m really, really hoping that by totaling up all the extras she’ll need along with the laptop, she’ll reconsider. But I forget what it’s like to be young and to not have any other responsibilities or bills. Just working for gas money and fun, (and hopefully saving a little for college, too! ). It’s the only time in life that you get to sort of do that, so I don’t want to completely rain on her Mac parade.

@f00l nope…we get by ok, but are far from wealthy! We told her that this absolutely counts as her college laptop. I wanted her to wait until the back to school deals in August, but if she gets it now, it still counts the same.

But I know Macs can easily last 5 years, so if that’s what she really wants, you all gave me the advice I needed to help her make the best choice.

I really appreciate the guidance.

@k4evryng

The is a category of “wants” that could be called “things we are getting because it might be good to have this someday”

Can be a reasonable attitude.
(Are they small drawer sized things? That’s cool as long as there’s space in the drawers

Can be the hoarder prob, if the things being gotten are taking up notable space, or causing probs maintaining and storing, or involving financial issues, or probs for other people or for the other parts of one’s own life.

Another category of “wants” that could be called “cool stuff we wish we needed”

These are the nice purchases that put people in debt for no health-, necessary-, or survival-related reasons.

And these are also the wonderful devices, kitchen stuff, cameras, musical instruments and hardware, sporting goods etc, computers, collections, “best of’s” that are hardly better than the next significant step down in price
…
So many wonderful things that aren’t hooked up or put together after we’ve had them a while. that sit in closets. that were used maybe once. that we never committed to and therefore never mastered, That cost us so much compared to what the degree of our commitment level justified.

We’re not going to be the next Ansel Adams or D’Jango or Pete Sampras if we aren’t putting in the hours of creative obsession.
And if we aren’t making a living using those things …
And so many times it’s not even a serious hobby. Just a fantasy hobby.

Then … why are we letting these expensive things own us?

I’m as bad about this as anyone. I go into contortions to convince self that I need something because it’s cool and beautiful and because I wish I needed it.
I wanna “pretend” to self that I’m that cool.

Being broke can be a real asshole of a teacher.

My dad … who paid his bills and wasn’t broke … spent loads on tennis stuff. He got exactly what he wanted and it often was pricey.

And he also played tennis 4-7 days a week for more than 70 years.

But he wouldn’t upgrade his simple Kodak to some fancy Nikon. Since he just took snapshots.

I seriously wish I had the self-insight, self-control, and personal wisdom to make only those sorts of justifiable purchases.

18 is about the right age to really start learning this sort of life balancing.

I hope she has a great time in college , and gets a serious start in a decent paying and fulfilling career path.

—-
BTW apple has some serious good sales a year.
not an expert but am guessing that along with Nov-Dec they might run sales for Valentines, Morhers Day, graduation, Father’s Day, and back to school.

You can prob find out this sort of apple “good sales” info and history by checking Reddit or Slickdeals, or some apple specific forums.

Or asking an “Apple genius” in a store in what holidays to dates the really good sales are.

@f00l Your words are very wise and I seriously enjoyed your take on stuff. You totally hit the nail on the head! Wants vs needs is so difficult to navigate…for adults, and even more so for kids. (I mean…I just bought a ukulele yesterday that I wanted, but absolutely did not need, so I can not judge anyone ). Yup…I have waaay to much stuff that owns me!

My husband tends to be more laid back with money, especially with the kids. But I tend towards frugalness (not cheapness) because my mom was (and still is) one hell of a bargain shopper (Goodwill is her favorite place! ) and she passed that down to me. So even though we are comfortable financially, I still don’t like to waste money. I’ve only successfully passed the frugal gene to 1 of my 3 kids…and my daughter isn’t the one. As we make her more and more responsible for her own stuff this year (gas, prom, etc…), I hope she will begin to find that balance and spend her paycheck wisely. Sometimes I joke with her that with her desire for spending, she better study really hard so she can get a great paying job, or marry rich.

Who knows…maybe she’ll be so enthralled with a new MacBook that she’ll be inspired to write, play, produce and release a hit song. (I’ll go out on a limb and say that’s probably not going to happen…but if it does, she’ll say it was because she had a Mac. )

@k4evryng

A great holiday, birthday, or graduation gift for her might be a series of financial tutorials.

1st series or step
The basics of budgeting and saving. His yo do it. How to master it.
Perhaps get her a YNAB subscription. Or get a family subscription that covers all of you.

2nd series step
the realities of life costs. What is costs to pay your own way w a car and a solo or shared residence and still be able to acquire savings and assets.
What things cost to own, operate, maintain. maintain. What is the thinking on where these costs might go in the future.
VS
The realities of income. How little you actually make if you are paid $25 an hour (3x the minimum wage) and also get some overtime.
(at todays housing prices you may never purchase a house, you may not be able to afford your student loan payments, and you may not be able to afford having children). .

3rd series
About what people who acquire financial stability and can afford their own snd their family’s expenses actually do to achieve that.
Part of the success formula is a good income or the acquisition of profitable assets.
Part of the success formula is financial and asset control.
Even people with huge inheritances or who have crazy income snd assets can manage to spend themselves into bankruptcy and poverty.

All tihese tutorials should be forward out over many years. A person has to live with trying to afford s life to startvto “get it”.
And developing good habits snd attitudes takes time.
If you decide to gift something like this to your kids, the later phases should be personalized s private. People have to make their own choices. Otherwise, resentment.

In the UScwe have a picture of the decent middle-class life. Or the “typical person will hand this” life. Leave it to Beaver. and various successor images of US life.

These are very obsolete. In the 1950’s, education at a major top ranked uni could cost $300-1000 a year. Most middle-class people could pay their doctors and their medical bills. No one was crippled for life by educational loans. Most of the middle-class could but a house in most parts of the country.

And now none of that is true.

So many people leave college with 50K plus of debt that later balloons to double that when wages can’t cover the payments.
Add grad school to that and the starter loan amount at graduation might be $250K. And the warning may will not come close to paying the loan bill with a masters either.

How many of us can afford the co-pay if there is a significant or king term serious medical problem? Way too many employed people can’t even afford insulin right now.

How many of the middle class that don’t already own houses can afford to buy one? Uh… v few after the latest price surge?

So this is what all the current students will graduate into. Not being able to afford a reasonable life unless the ex-student has special highly paid skills or licensure, or special appeal and talent?

Bit you don’t see this mentioned much in the various works or serial drama or films.
Not mentioned much in TikTok, Instagram, a YouTube.
Most of this material shows the successful stuff or the saleable personality or attitude or topic.
If the content creator can’t pay their bills or afford a house or children; they be silent in that. I depressing $ stuff might not to jive well with channel follower counts or with possible monetarization.

So we just don’t see how deep the $ struggle is for so many recent grads. And kids that age or yours are walking right into this jungle of barely getting by.

The apparantly easy-off middle-class of media are gone, but the outlets don’t show much poverty. Poverty is unphotogenyc and depressing. And if one presents one’s own poverty, viewer feel like their being subjected to a begging bowl. They leave or tune out or go cold.

The apparently comfortable $ era of the 1950s-early 1970s were kinda sorta real once for some. And now they’re gone.

Then, a person who worked at minimum wage job full time could, if they were lucky and prudent, have a life, a residence, a car, and pay bills.
And possibly have savings and pay for community college.
I personally knew people then who did all that.

Those days are so very gone.

Partly because of the loss of high paying factory and union-type jobs.

Partly changes in financial laws, tax rules, and practices that benefit wealth at the expense of everyone else.

Partly globalism (it largely inevitable no matter what the laws snd practices are. And it ain’t going away)
All countries are full of people demanding full economic participation and opportunity now. The US doesn’t get to “own the basketball court” anymore.

Partly … an economically unique moment in history. Most first world counties were invaded, occupied, or significantly bombed 1939-1945. And these countries got to spend 2-4 decades after the war climbing out of the rubble and re-building.
Many of them had political or financial instability during those “devastated years”. Recovery was slow.
Furthermore, many first world countries were part of the “Old World culture”, with its strengths but also its prejudices; such as the pre-eminence of established aristocratic tradition, and a lack of business creativity as a strong social force.
Even after these countries were re-built, they had to shake off enough of the old ways to realize that anyone could gain some degree of what we think of as modern financial success by innovating.
And only the few 1st world countries that made it though WWII - without being occupied or bombed - and that had most of the adult population with at least a high school education, many having gone to college, and where there was significant industry, capital for investment, technology, and traditions of economic and technological progress. And significant space and natural resources.
And social practices that, while very imperfect and unfair, often full of irrational predjiduce, were prob far better that much if the rest of the world.
And while the wealthy and powerful have always “bought/owned huge portions of their government practices, at least these 1st world countries did not have a culture if constant daily petty corruption and graft. Such unfair influence as their was was either based in social networks, or on big $ buying influence. In these countries, most people didn’t have to pay daily bribes just in order to get through life.

In 1950, the counties with strong education, medical services, resources, business,
capital,
somewhat fair banking and investment, a better than average political system and little daily graft, and that had not been bombed, conquered. Or occupied,
Had good science and tech
Had traditions of innovation

US. Canada. NZ and Australia.

Only the US had the big population and the monster economic engine already in place.

A few other countries could be argued into that list, but those countries often had far less admirable political and economic structures.
(Not saying our systems are perfect; but plenty of other countries are/were far worse.

And of these 4 counties … only one of them had in 1950 a substantial, educated, optimistic population plenty of resources, a tradition of innovation, and sufficient enormous industry and capital to chase the opportunities.

NZ, AU, and CA just didn’t have enough people to grow tech and biz the way the US did.

So … from say 1950-early 1970s, there was one dominant economic and technological power. The US.
Other countries did ok, but no one else was even in real competition.

Our now current competition, China, was poor, largely rural and uneducated, and in the throes of decades of peasant revolution then.
The Soviet Union had a viable military and some decent technology and science. But was still struggling with being invaded, with Stalinism, with a worst ever economic system that left the country barely able to feed itself, and where no one could take serious business or financial risks except through participating in total corruption.

And so the US ruled the economic world relatively unchallenged for decades. And that fact makes the local population relatively wealthy compared to the rest of the world.

And that was a unique time in economic history.
But all out images of normal financial life seem to spring from the TV and film images from that era, and their later snd current successors copy the innate formulas.

Who wants a sitcom or Instagram where every single bill us always late and sometimes cell service is shut off the characters can’t repair their cars?
But that latter is a very common reality for recent grads.

Since all people in all counties now demand the good life, and no set of laws yet ever stopped globalization:

The only way to have a worldwide reasonable middle class is to have real solid substantial econ growth that benefits the middle and lower class as much as it benefits the weathly. (IE some correspondence between wage gains and asset gains.

And very serious correspondence between wages and costs in every key area
(eg housing and utility costs,
costs of all necessary medical care;
technical, college, post-grad education, and whatever the cost to acquire social/technical skills;
internet and software/hardware costs;
Food snd clothing
Communications
Etc)
Theres prob more stuff that outta be in that list.

I’m not trying to do a screed here, or argue here for or against special econ philosophies.

I’m trying to point one that most kids close to adulthood and who have not personally experienced poverty have no idea that it could happen to them.
Could happen to them even if they are employed, responsible, productive, even creative.

Ye Ole Huge Corp cares about what value can be extracted from employees and contract workers at the lowest cost. Ye Oldd Huge Corp will always be trying to squeeze a bit more.

So … these cusp-of-adulthood kids should at least know what they are facing in terms of work, careers, finances, possibilities.

If they haven’t been there, they won’t really believe. Unless perhaps they have done significant paid or charity outreach work.

Or unless the kid already had some jobs, and while the parent left the earnings alone, the parent forced the kid to understand his far the earnings wouldn’t go if the kid were financially independent.

It’s scary as hell. And it’s horrible to think that even tho someone was an excellent parent and got the kid all that was needed,
and even tho the kid presents well and is healthy, responsible, honest, productive,
of good character, and employed, that kid might be in poverty.

I commend all parents who try to work in this topic with their kids without becoming intrusive or controlling.

A good place to start 30-40 years ago might have been some really good books on how to achieve prosperity.

Now … I’m not aware of any book that really covers the current landscape.
Not saying the books don’t exist. Just … dunno what they are. Such different times.

Anyway sorry I went on for so long. And I’m sure you appreciate all this stuff far better than do I.

Ugh. I got off topic and went all sorts of preachy and pompous, didn’t I?
Apologies!

Happy computer shopping!

And MAX OUT THE MEMORY when you purchase.

@f00l That was an enjoyable and fascinating read. And also somewhat depressing, because it’s so true! When I get a minute tomorrow, I will write a longer reply because I want to tell you about my oldest kid and how his story aligns almost perfectly with what you said. It’s sad and it’s scary that things are so difficult for kids trying to be successful in the current environment.

@k4evryng she can also get ed pricing on MS office as well. That, at least, is mostly compatible across PC to Mac. Excel on a PC has more functions than on a Mac and sometimes with powerpoint going back and forth between platforms you have some minor layout glitches… but never had any cross platform issue with Word.

@f00l ok…ready?

I thought about whispering this to you, but I figured people could scroll on by if they wanted, lol! But I find this an interesting topic and you really hit on some of the incredibly important reasons why we are where we are. And that makes me worry about not only my own kids future, but their kids, and so on.

I mentioned my oldest son is sort of an example of what you talked about. He’s always been extremely sensible with his money. On his own, he started an IRA at 18. He’s always worked at least 2 jobs since he was 16 and saved diligently. I honestly don’t know where he came from because I don’t think he learned it from us!

He’s 23 now, and graduated from Penn State 2 years ago with a degree in Risk Management. By working 2 or 3 jobs, he was able to make up the difference between what we gave him towards school, and the cost of tuition, while renting an apartment (with other boys) and paying all of his expenses. He graduated with 0 debt, which is almost unheard of nowadays. (If you haven’t guessed already, he’s my frugal one that I spoke of above. ). My husband and I are seriously impressed. We want to be him when we grow up. Especially because he’s a fun kid…he’s not all work and no play. He just worked really hard because he had a goal. But as you mentioned, this is not at all the typical scenario for most kids (and certainly won’t be for my other 2 who don’t seem to have the same grasp of the importance of saving money).

Anyway…despite the fact that he landed an amazing job making great money, he and his (soon to be) fiancé can not afford to buy a house. She’s a teacher and they make over 100k together, but the housing market is incredibly rough for ‘starter’ homes around here, and neither of them want to move far away from family. He’d love to buy a duplex so they could own and rent out the other part, but they are almost impossible to find, so he’s pretty much given that dream up. He’d also love a fixer upper so he can build sweat equity. He’s really discouraged and it’s a bummer because he literally has done everything right! So they are just saving like crazy (and trying to pay off her loans as quickly as possible) until something they can afford hopefully comes along.

So, all that to say that you couldn’t have been more correct in saying that a kid can work hard, save hard, try to get assets, have a good job, and have a firm grasp on money and still have a tough time reaching for the ‘American Dream’. I mean…I know he will get there eventually, but it’s not as easily attainable as it once was long ago. After teaching, I became a stay at home mom and although it was tough, we did it. I don’t think many young adults today will have the option to have one parent home if they want, and personally, that makes me so sad. And unfortunately, I think the road ahead for my other two will be more difficult than their brothers simply because they will have to learn how to keep themselves afloat.

My middle son will graduate in May with a generic degree in Business Management. He has no idea what he wants to do out of school. And he will have some loans to pay back (fortunately not a ridiculous amount because he’s at a local state school and lived at home because of Covid, which saved him a lot.) But I think his job options might be limited with so many entry level business jobs being done overseas. But I hope not. I would have loved to see him get into the trades, because skilled laborers who are desperately needed are getting more and more scarce. It’s hard work, but they can make great money! I think kids don’t want to work that hard these days (and now I sound like an old mom! ) We need to change the prevailing attitude that college is the only way to succeed (and along those same lines, change the attitude that community colleges are somehow ‘less than’)! It’s so frustrating!

Here’s a funny (or not so funny) story that speaks to the changes in this next generation that are quite different from ours. My sons fiancé is a 3rd grade teacher. During the beginning of the year ‘getting to know you’ period, she asked her students to write down what they wanted to be when they grew up. Do you want to take a guess at what over half of the kids said?? An influencer!!! Seriously? I was floored! These kids see these YouTubers or Tik Tok personalities making tons of money and think ‘I can do that’…and it’s not just the little ones. 1/2 of my daughters friends are on Tik Tok doing whatever it is they do to gain followers. In addition to all the things you spoke about, this makes me fear for our future, lol! They see value in doing something that only a fraction of a percent of people are successful at and think it’s a viable option. Yikes.

There are so many uncertainties with this current economic climate. Politics aside, I think the problem will be a difficult one to solve without some serious changes and more adaptations towards a global economy. Thank goodness for brighter minds than my own, because I wouldn’t even begin to know what those changes would look like, lol!

(And yes…we will definitely max out the RAM! )

Thank you for a very engaging conversation! If your willing, I’d love to know what you do, lol! I’m leaning towards economics/finance or history. You have incredible knowledge about this subject.

@f00l in the spirit of the word crimes thread, and Meh’s 5 minute edit window, please forgive my misuse of your instead of you’re. That’s what happens when I write too fast.

@k4evryng

Thanks for your taking the time to give us this pix of what it’s like to have kids who are newly adult or in the cusp of adulthood.

And, as you know, for even the best of them, often it ain’t pretty.

For your middle son … I suggest he might specialize. Even if ut involves a little extra edu.

(No expensive masters programs, pls! If someone us even considering one, please make sure that there is a HUGE market for people with that degree, and that the extra cost of getting said degree will be easily covered by average earnings)

Some of these masters can be worthwhile.

I have a niece who majored in communications.
After working for a few years in political snd Corp communications, by that time she had major contacts in the financial industry in her area. She ran past them the idea of getting an MBA in finance and working in the investment industry.
She was offered post-MBA-degree jobs on the spot, and she hadn’t even decided to get a masters yet.
But she is the sort who always does a great job, who is completely reliable, and who had the industry contacts, who lives her life like the the valedictorian she once was … and she followed their advice in her career planning.
And she moved into the $ industry, using her communications skills, while she got the MBA on the weekends.
Not everyone can pull that off. And she wasn’t handed those contacts and connections, she had spent all the years after HS forging them. she does very nicely now, but that path is one that not everyone can create for themselves.

Law practice is iffy because so expensive.
If someone wants to know for certain they’ll be solvent 10 years after-graduation. , they’d better pick out highly-paid, high-in-demand specialities before they enter a law program … and then spend all their free time making connections.
Large law firms usually pay far better than small ones, so someone has to have that sort of personality and drive to make that happen, and be content in that area.
One relative has a corporate bankruptcy legal practice. Like when an airline or similar gets into trouble. She usually represents the side owed $.
She does v well that this.

But I suspect there are several good areas of biz to specialize in. One is accounting.

the corporate $ can be unbelievably good. I have a nephew, a chemical engineer who also is chief manager at the factory he runs.
You’d think, nice $, roght?
His wife, working as an accountant worh corporate clients, out-earns her husband. Another niece of mine is also doing very nicely as an accountant.

Beware tho. There are plenty of broke, never got decent $, accountants, MBAs, and lawyers.
Planning and inside understanding of these professions is key.

As for masters in anything that someone isn’t certain will pay decent, have fairing. Often the pay snd career improvements are minimal, and the extra earnings never cover the cost.

*several big name high prestige universities have heavily marketed their masters programs, even after the school had years of data indicating that the very expensive degrees were huge net-money- losers for the graduates, except for, perhaps, the lucky 1%.

I fear that practice of universities - including state-funded public universities - promising the world and delivering only huge student debt and financial misery continues.
Some areas of the university curriculum seem to be the moral equivalent of worthless and expensive nutritional supplements. Or Enron stocks. Or snake oil.

Once upon a time, universities had some honor, and wouldn’t do this sort of thing.
Now, so many universities, including some schools on Top Ten lists, can only see the $ they will get from those students who take out huge loans in order to pay for the potential degree. They really don’t wanna know that students will lose huge amounts of $ lifelong. on this.

—
There are some seriously decent careers for those who wanna work with their hands. Electronician, plumbing, diesel mechanic … esp if one’s learns as Koch as possible through the apprentice system and gets most of the formal edu from a local community college.

Medical careers, including medical-related business careers, can get someone to what we’d life the middle class to be.

This is partially due yo the fact that medical-related careers have a “funnel” during education that limits the # of fresh grads each year. Nursing, physical therapy, radiology techniccual, pharmacist, many other licensure’s, can yeild v good careers. Altho the many if the lesser areas of licensure do not pay well. Someone needs to fo their research.

Physician degrees: some areas of practice pay decently. Some don’t. General practitioners barely make $.
Also, the medical snd dental industry is changing. practices for sale when the owner wants to retire are being bought up by not by younger practitioners, but by hedge-funders and v tich speciality investors.
And this sucks.for the physicians (mere employees), for the other caregivers, and for the patients.

Medical business areas and hospital admin can be good - or not. Many jobs that require serious education don’t pay anything like they should, because there are just too many people with the same skillsets. So whenever they go, they’re replaceable.

Writing code can be good. Depends on what areas of coding and how good s coder one is, since that’s an easy career to outsource to overseas.

Basically, people have to treat the career landscape as an environment where one uses strategy amdand planning to avoid being eaten alive or employed in poverty-stricken near-serfdom.

It’s so ugly. And only a few will rise above thr various traps.

I understand why the kids all want yo be influencers. It’s like wanting to be a rock star in the 1960’s, and only thinking about the big acts, not all the anonymous groups who play in clubs for pennies, have a day job, and finally give it up.

The visible influencers are often reasonable successful.
Big one never sees the invisible masses I’d would-be influencers. The ratio of self-supporting influencers to those who wish they were must be something like 1:100million.

Snd because it’s looks relatively easy, and it looks like their own their own careers. And it looks possible, when one is young and attractive.

I’d say that any would-be influencer in today’s competitive market had better be studying (in one’s own), TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube algorithms, photography, layout and design, blogging, and Wordpress, writing copy, editing rext, imagery, and video, marketing. Communications, and on and on. And they’d better either have a plan about his yo get noticed snd stand out, or else how to be successful in a niche market where the fans will find you.
Not easy, zero success promised, no matter what.

There no reason not to try the influencer, ^maybe*. If the subject speciality is carefully chosen.
if one is careful about what one puts online

(because a person can be stalked, or threatened and harassed, or doxxed, if the target of lies and character destruction.
And because what one puts online is there forever.).

But I’m betting that far fewer than 2 in 100 million really succeed.

One downside is that, for the overwhelming majority who never have success, these people may later regret that their earlier lives and thoughts are archived online.

It’s just tough. I hope they understand that sooner rather than later.

If I had kids that age. I don’t know what I’d do to try to help.
Maybe educate them about employment, labor, investment, financial trends, as thoroughly as possible
.
/salute to good parents.

: )

PS I know that the housing markets is now almost just a prospector’s dream.
But there might be further options.
If they can arrange to buy a house, could they buy one and rent out some of them rooms? Maybe for 5 years?
Rents have also increased.

If this were the intended plan, I have no idea his derringer the down and the mortgage approval would work.

You know what one reason is that the housing market is nuts?
There are a buncha big investors and hedge funds buying up residences. Their idea is that they will own so large a % if the housing market someday that most if the middle class and even the upper middle class will have no option except to rent for life.

@f00l yes, yes, yes to all that you said! Especially the cost of higher education. You would think that since a good education almost always benefits society, that it would be better funded from tots to graduates…but that’s the teacher in me speaking.

And I recently read about corporations buying houses. That’s very, very scary.

@dijit27 Thanks!
Off to check them out! I’ve never heard of them…are they a reputable?

@k4evryng My experience is pretty limited, but the laptop I bought has been great. If you do look I’d recommend narrowing it down to what you’re interested in and sorting lowest price first. Because there are some pretty wild price swings.

@mycya4me thank you! I will check the YouTube guy out! I do love Apple refurbs…I have had great experiences with them!

@k4evryng @mycya4me I’d also give OWC/MacSales a thumbs up.

@k4evryng
For her purposes snd budget that’s likely a decent choice.

I do wish she had gotten 2-4x the ram

If ram can be added at reasonable cost, add it. Perhaps ask around for whether there are times when ram is on ssle.

I don’t know if the ram can be upgraded in the pro. Also don’t know if there us a fluctuating price market.

Apologies for the crazy spellings. I was trying fast in my phone and am terrible at that.

And thx for having the patience to read my long long long long long long posts, esp since you prob already understand all that.

@f00l yes…yes I do.
I don’t believe I’ve ever been accused of being brief. But I enjoy listening/reading as well as talking/writing, and engaging in conversations (especially ones where I learn something) is wonderful. Thank you for that.

Since she got an open box, she didn’t get to choose the RAM (and it’s my understanding that this particular laptop can only go above 8 if it’s special ordered…though I could be wrong since there were so many close options). Unfortunately, based on what I read above, you can’t upgrade Apple RAM, so we’re stuck with it. But I hope it’ll be plenty since she’s a beginner and won’t be taxing it too much.

Enjoy the upcoming holidays and I look forward to an interesting conversation with you in the future.