@kuoh@phendrick@yakkoTDI
Which by the way, reminded me of how stupid the Saw movie was, where Cary Elwes cuts off his lower leg at mid-shin to get out of the leg irons/handcuffs that he is shackled in.
He didn’t really need to cut through any bone, and could have had a much easier time [and more survivable/repairable wound] if he had just amputated his foot at the ankle joint by severing the soft-tissues there.
BTW, I didn’t know this factoid:
During the filming of the scene, Elwes accidentally scratched his foot despite using a blunt hacksaw, according to Saw Wiki.
Also:
Elwes character- Dr. Lawrence Gordon was supposed to return in Saw II and be the main protagonist of Saw III.
He would have to play another game as John and Amanda kidnaps his family once again.
All of which never happened because Cary Elwes filed a lawsuit against Lionsgate Films for unjust payment from the success of the first film.
He had bargained with them for royalties instead of a straight salary, some of which they allegedly stiffed him on.
@craigthom@dahobbs9@Kyeh it’s actually something I’ve considered learning. Not for any criminal reasons, and not because I want to become a locksmith… Just seems an interesting skill to learn.
@dahobbs9@Kyeh It’s the same reason I learned to juggle (a skill I thought I could develop with study and practice), but picking a lock is potentially more useful. It hasn’t been yet, but it could be.
I deleted my comment (quickly, I thought) after reading others about various levels of quality for deadbolts.
I bought just a standard deadbolt lock from Lowe’s to practice on. I had moved past the clear practice padlock I started with.
I just thought it would be a fun skill to learn. I didn’t have any specific use in mind. I’ve never done it “in the field”, but I feel confident I could.
I do actually have a “safe” (just a cheap lockable box really) from my childhood that I lost the key to decades ago… I know I wrote a note to my futureself in it… I’d love to break in. It’s a kiddy lock-box so I’m sure an easy lock to pick
Nobody I’ve checked has been impressed by sub-DOD-level fingerprint readers. The Lockpicking Lawyer’s opinion of Lockly’s other models is that their keyed locks are challenging enough to pick that even burglars who might pick a lock will likely simply apply brute force or pick another entry point. As deadbolts go, it’s probably less secure than one which doesn’t have a fingerprint sensor, if the varied other results I could find are typical of what can be expected there. OTOH, $40 is not horrible for a deadbolt, but the best of the crop often mounts the cylinder closer to flush. YMMV, and as noted, the typical burglar will not be subtle with their invasion tactics. Brute force is available without the need to develop skill. And the typical door frame is far more fragile than the typical door.
@ravenblack The convenience factor should be for the authorized persons alone. Random tests of the typical implementations of fingerprint readers have shown both an annoying tendency to not recognize the correct fingerprint and to mistakenly read an incorrect one as being authorized. Reliability is more crucial than convenience, and there’s no recognized standard of performance for that. If there was, the locks could carry a rating to judge them by. There is no standard as of last I looked, and I didn’t see anything mentioned about it in the specs. The best hope in for accuracy for these locks rides on obscurity; if the fingerprint touch pad isn’t recognized as such by whatever random visitor is standing in front of it, the potential vulnerability may not matter.
All door locks are subject to the limitation that they won’t stop brute force, but if the touch pad is recognized and the burglar gets lucky, even brute force isn’t needed - except when you’ve also got the regular lockset engaged, which doesn’t take as much force to overcome. On the other hand, fingerprint pad inaccuracy likely to be a null factor given how infrequently anyone tries to break into most houses, and given that the typical B&E perp is just going to go straight to the “breaking” solution. It’s the casual adventurous type, the impulse intruder, that make me nervous about this tech. I’d be concerned that someone would stick their finger on the pad just to see if it worked. Whether they would follow through on an unexpected unlock might be academic, or might not.
As I noted, $40 is not a bad price for a mechanical deadbolt with decent mechanical build quality, and other styles from this brand get pretty good evaluations, so it’s probably a decent deal anyway - and one can disable the fingerprint reader and other electronic features by simply leaving the batteries out of the lock.
@werehatrack That’s fair. I’m always annoyed that fingerprint readers are this “touch” type now, the type that’s notoriously vulnerable to “press a plastic bag of water against it and it’ll effectively replay the previous fingerprint”, when 15 years ago I had a laptop with a “slit” fingerprint reader that I haven’t seen since, that operated more like a scanner rather than a camera - you slide your finger over it and it reads line-by-line. No way for that to have an accidental memory of previously-seen prints, and it didn’t take any more time to use. I doubt it was significantly more expensive. Maybe just too difficult to explain to users.
@ravenblack@werehatrack I serviced those laptops. A lot of users had issues registering their prints in the first place. (Likely because they were scanning too fast or too slow)
@pakopako For me it was better than any modern fingerprint reader, I almost never had a misfire, vs. I get “try again” about 1 time in 8 with my modern laptop and phone. But I’m an old man shaking cane at cloud and hate everything modern; I also preferred the resistive touchscreen on the nintendo DS over capacitive touchscreens that everything uses now - the stylus was more precise and I could use a fingernail rather than a finger pad, which was also more precise. Sure, multitouch is a good point in favor of capacitive, but it’s basically only used for pinch-zoom and for bullshit unintuitive gestures so I’d gladly discard that in favor of precision. [rambles off on another tangent about how awful modern javascript APIs are, fading into the distance.]
@Perkalicious If it makes you feel any better, we’re losing our ass on this deal - even the $49.99 price was a fair amount below our cost …and we bought over 5000!
@troy that both does and doesn’t make me feel better. I never should have looked for what I paid last time, and I would have had no remorse. currently wondering if I could use any more…
@blaineg His evaluation of one of their non-biometric models was pretty good; the cylinder required skill beyond the typical level a burglar possesses, which is why they usually carry a big prybar of some sort. (Or just kick the door in.)
I like the Bosma I got from Meh that has the keypad too.
I trained it to take my right hand finger print but sometimes my right hand is occupied so it’s handy to punch in the code with my left.
Or sometimes the scanner is being a pain and doesn’t recognize my finger print so I give up and type the code instead.
I keep hoping Meh will sell the lock bundle with the keypad again (they always sell it without now), but don’t think I’d do one that’s just finger print with no code option. The Bosma uses your existing bolt which is nice.
Currently use another brand with a keypad and I kinda want to make the switch. But I know if that fingerprint reader fails just once, I will never hear the end of it.
@molin123 That’s why I opted for ones that include a keypad as well. The fingerprint reader is quick, but rarely works when there’s too much moisture and I’d rather not be locked out during a downpour. Just don’t use my code 12345!
@molin123 It’s the same with all the cheap fingerprint readers I’ve tried. The only exceptions might be optical based readers, but I don’t think those usually come cheap. Should be easy for you to test, just put a drop of water on your finger and try to scan without wiping it off.
Specs
Product: Lockly Flex Touch Bluetooth Deadbolt Lock with Biometric 3D Fingerprint
Model: PGD7YSN
Condition: New
What’s Included?
Warranty
Limited 1-Year Mechanical & Finish Warranty and 1-Year Electronics Warranty & Lifetime Technical Support
Estimated Delivery
Monday, Apr 21 - Tuesday, Apr 22
The biometric signature of an “AI” user is indistinguishable from that of a starfish.
Just as long as I don’t have to press my starfish up to it to unlock the door
@DrunkCat Has she called yet?
@yakkoTDI Who is she? What.
@st_ellis
@DrunkCat @st_ellis WTH?!?! I have no idea what I just watched, but I’m so glad I did. Thanks for the chuckle
Why should i motivate anyone to cut off my finger?
@phendrick So Project Farm can compare bone saws.
@phendrick @yakkoTDI Or bolt cutters.
KuoH
@kuoh @phendrick @yakkoTDI
Limb loppers…
@kuoh @phendrick @yakkoTDI
Which by the way, reminded me of how stupid the Saw movie was, where Cary Elwes cuts off his lower leg at mid-shin to get out of the leg irons/handcuffs that he is shackled in.
He didn’t really need to cut through any bone, and could have had a much easier time [and more survivable/repairable wound] if he had just amputated his foot at the ankle joint by severing the soft-tissues there.
BTW, I didn’t know this factoid:
During the filming of the scene, Elwes accidentally scratched his foot despite using a blunt hacksaw, according to Saw Wiki.
Also:
Elwes character- Dr. Lawrence Gordon was supposed to return in Saw II and be the main protagonist of Saw III.
He would have to play another game as John and Amanda kidnaps his family once again.
All of which never happened because Cary Elwes filed a lawsuit against Lionsgate Films for unjust payment from the success of the first film.
He had bargained with them for royalties instead of a straight salary, some of which they allegedly stiffed him on.
Can it make a margarita? No, but it can keep your house secure so no one steals your tequila.
Wonder just how secure this thing really is compared to a regular deadbolt. Secure as in Pick resistant and hammer resistant
@dahobbs9 Almost none are big-crowbar resistant.
@dahobbs9 @werehatrack All it takes is a little bit of air.
KuoH
@craigthom @dahobbs9
@dahobbs9 @kuoh @werehatrack
Hey @phendrick, looks like you don’t have to worry about losing that finger!
@craigthom @dahobbs9 @Kyeh it’s actually something I’ve considered learning. Not for any criminal reasons, and not because I want to become a locksmith… Just seems an interesting skill to learn.
@craigthom @dahobbs9 @OnionSoup
… And the original comment is gone!
@craigthom @dahobbs9 @Kyeh Suspicious…
@dahobbs9 @Kyeh It’s the same reason I learned to juggle (a skill I thought I could develop with study and practice), but picking a lock is potentially more useful. It hasn’t been yet, but it could be.
I deleted my comment (quickly, I thought) after reading others about various levels of quality for deadbolts.
I bought just a standard deadbolt lock from Lowe’s to practice on. I had moved past the clear practice padlock I started with.
I just thought it would be a fun skill to learn. I didn’t have any specific use in mind. I’ve never done it “in the field”, but I feel confident I could.
@craigthom @dahobbs9 @Kyeh @OnionSoup Lock picking can be a fun hobby. It is in the same category as a Rubik’s Cube. It is just a different puzzle.
@craigthom @dahobbs9 @Kyeh @yakkoTDI That’s what I was thinking…
only more useful.
I do actually have a “safe” (just a cheap lockable box really) from my childhood that I lost the key to decades ago… I know I wrote a note to my futureself in it… I’d love to break in. It’s a kiddy lock-box so I’m sure an easy lock to pick
@craigthom @dahobbs9 @OnionSoup
@yakkoTDI – Is there something you have been hiding from us?
@craigthom @dahobbs9 @Kyeh @OnionSoup Many things, but not what you’re thinking!
@OnionSoup $80 to fix someone accidentally locking themselves out of a home or car is also enticing.
I’ve seen Demon Seed, no thank you.
@sammydog01
Not exactly a well-named movie*, although I did enjoy it.
*Because there’s nothing occult or demon-related in it whatsoever.
Probably “AI Seed” would have been a little too hard for the public to grasp at the time it was made and released.
I also didn’t realize it was sourced from a Dean Koontz novel- one of his earliest. He speaks about the process pretty humorously here:
https://www.deankoontz.com/demon-seed-from-the-author/
Nobody I’ve checked has been impressed by sub-DOD-level fingerprint readers. The Lockpicking Lawyer’s opinion of Lockly’s other models is that their keyed locks are challenging enough to pick that even burglars who might pick a lock will likely simply apply brute force or pick another entry point. As deadbolts go, it’s probably less secure than one which doesn’t have a fingerprint sensor, if the varied other results I could find are typical of what can be expected there. OTOH, $40 is not horrible for a deadbolt, but the best of the crop often mounts the cylinder closer to flush. YMMV, and as noted, the typical burglar will not be subtle with their invasion tactics. Brute force is available without the need to develop skill. And the typical door frame is far more fragile than the typical door.
@werehatrack Isn’t the point of this not to be more secure than a regular lock, but to be more convenient than a regular lock?
@ravenblack The convenience factor should be for the authorized persons alone. Random tests of the typical implementations of fingerprint readers have shown both an annoying tendency to not recognize the correct fingerprint and to mistakenly read an incorrect one as being authorized. Reliability is more crucial than convenience, and there’s no recognized standard of performance for that. If there was, the locks could carry a rating to judge them by. There is no standard as of last I looked, and I didn’t see anything mentioned about it in the specs. The best hope in for accuracy for these locks rides on obscurity; if the fingerprint touch pad isn’t recognized as such by whatever random visitor is standing in front of it, the potential vulnerability may not matter.
All door locks are subject to the limitation that they won’t stop brute force, but if the touch pad is recognized and the burglar gets lucky, even brute force isn’t needed - except when you’ve also got the regular lockset engaged, which doesn’t take as much force to overcome. On the other hand, fingerprint pad inaccuracy likely to be a null factor given how infrequently anyone tries to break into most houses, and given that the typical B&E perp is just going to go straight to the “breaking” solution. It’s the casual adventurous type, the impulse intruder, that make me nervous about this tech. I’d be concerned that someone would stick their finger on the pad just to see if it worked. Whether they would follow through on an unexpected unlock might be academic, or might not.
As I noted, $40 is not a bad price for a mechanical deadbolt with decent mechanical build quality, and other styles from this brand get pretty good evaluations, so it’s probably a decent deal anyway - and one can disable the fingerprint reader and other electronic features by simply leaving the batteries out of the lock.
@werehatrack That’s fair. I’m always annoyed that fingerprint readers are this “touch” type now, the type that’s notoriously vulnerable to “press a plastic bag of water against it and it’ll effectively replay the previous fingerprint”, when 15 years ago I had a laptop with a “slit” fingerprint reader that I haven’t seen since, that operated more like a scanner rather than a camera - you slide your finger over it and it reads line-by-line. No way for that to have an accidental memory of previously-seen prints, and it didn’t take any more time to use. I doubt it was significantly more expensive. Maybe just too difficult to explain to users.
@ravenblack @werehatrack I serviced those laptops. A lot of users had issues registering their prints in the first place. (Likely because they were scanning too fast or too slow)
@pakopako For me it was better than any modern fingerprint reader, I almost never had a misfire, vs. I get “try again” about 1 time in 8 with my modern laptop and phone. But I’m an old man shaking cane at cloud and hate everything modern; I also preferred the resistive touchscreen on the nintendo DS over capacitive touchscreens that everything uses now - the stylus was more precise and I could use a fingernail rather than a finger pad, which was also more precise. Sure, multitouch is a good point in favor of capacitive, but it’s basically only used for pinch-zoom and for bullshit unintuitive gestures so I’d gladly discard that in favor of precision. [rambles off on another tangent about how awful modern javascript APIs are, fading into the distance.]
“Open it with an app from anywhere”
Doesn’t that require their optional wifi gateway?
@craigthom Yes, you’re correct. Thank you! We advertised it this way in our initial sale, but missed it this second time around.
@craigthom Yeah
If I still have these in the boxes from the last time, can I get $10 back for each ordered at $50?
🫣
@Perkalicious Can you? Yes. Will you? Don’t hold your breath.
@Perkalicious If it makes you feel any better, we’re losing our ass on this deal - even the $49.99 price was a fair amount below our cost
…and we bought over 5000!
@troy that both does and doesn’t make me feel better.
I never should have looked for what I paid last time, and I would have had no remorse. 
currently wondering if I could use any more… 
@Perkalicious @troy
I’m betting you’re making up for it on IRK’s so I’m not feeling too bad about it. 
Lol…
Sorry, not sorry!
Get back to me when LPL likes it.
@blaineg His evaluation of one of their non-biometric models was pretty good; the cylinder required skill beyond the typical level a burglar possesses, which is why they usually carry a big prybar of some sort. (Or just kick the door in.)
@blaineg @werehatrack Or break the window next to the door.
@blaineg I don’t connect the battery and just use it as a cheap Schalge key-bolt that retails for about the same at Lowe’s.
Where does it store your biometric data?
Is the security good, like “23andme”?
Most courts have held that compelling a suspect to provide his or her biometrics to unlock digital devices does not offend the Fifth Amendment.
@2many2no Probably a good thing your house isn’t a digital device
@2many2no
https://www.zdnet.com/article/worried-about-warrantless-phone-searches-heres-what-lawyers-says-about-biometrics-vs-passcodes/
After reading all the comments I’m like, WOW, and to think I’ve been wanting one of these locks like forever…
Do these three specs listed above really apply to this particular unit?
@jester747 Thanks for the callout – I’ve had the specs corrected across all of our sites and listings.
I like the Bosma I got from Meh that has the keypad too.
I trained it to take my right hand finger print but sometimes my right hand is occupied so it’s handy to punch in the code with my left.
Or sometimes the scanner is being a pain and doesn’t recognize my finger print so I give up and type the code instead.
I keep hoping Meh will sell the lock bundle with the keypad again (they always sell it without now), but don’t think I’d do one that’s just finger print with no code option. The Bosma uses your existing bolt which is nice.
Currently use another brand with a keypad and I kinda want to make the switch. But I know if that fingerprint reader fails just once, I will never hear the end of it.
@molin123 That’s why I opted for ones that include a keypad as well. The fingerprint reader is quick, but rarely works when there’s too much moisture and I’d rather not be locked out during a downpour. Just don’t use my code 12345!
KuoH
@kuoh I didn’t know about the moisture issue, that sucks. Does it apply to this brand/model or just outdoor readers general?
@molin123 It’s the same with all the cheap fingerprint readers I’ve tried. The only exceptions might be optical based readers, but I don’t think those usually come cheap. Should be easy for you to test, just put a drop of water on your finger and try to scan without wiping it off.
KuoH
@kuoh <mode=“President_Skroob”>What an amazing coincidence! That’s the same code I have on my luggage! </mode>
Why would Georgia Red be too much? . . .makes no sense.
@jrwofuga It’s funny, my mind sees your username as “jr wofuga,” but I only realized the other day that it must be “jrw of uga.”
@Kyeh you are correct. It is jrw of UGA. Strangely, my father WAS named wofuga but he did not name me a junior. A missed opportunity.
@jrwofuga