I only buy it because my 1st Gen Chevy Volt says it needs it. But because I own a Volt, I barely ever buy gas. I think the last time I stopped at a gas station was back in December. Yes, I’m bragging and yes, you can suck it.
@Blahbbs My iMiev is all electric. Only thing I would change on mine is the range on a charge. In reality I dont need more range 99% of the time but it would be cool to take it on some long treks.
@Blahbbs Ditto. Except i did go on a road trip, so i did have to fill up once this year. It cost nearly twenty dollars! It ran the engine a couple times in service mode, too.
@Andrew_B-- Also, we use to have a 2011 Volt that recommended it. Furthermore, I also buy premium for my z car too… yeah…gasoline companies love my choices in vehicles…
I buy premium for my small.gas engines: snow blower, lawn mower, string trimmer, leaf blower, etc. Up here (Minnesota) the premium is non-oxygenated and contains no ethanol. That shit tends to gum up the small passageways in the smaller engines and leads to issues. I swear by the non-oxygenated gas.
@SpenceMan01 I learned the hard way that if you don’t buy premium for small engines, you can do serious damage. I burned up a chainsaw in two years by using regular. That ethanol is killer!
@luvche21 from what I’ve always heard, it’s not necessarily the high octane you need. You’re better off buying non ethanol gas. The ethanol messes up the fuel lines. Around here, the only non ethanol gas that’s offered is 93 octane. But not all 93 is non ethanol.
If you can’t find non ethanol, use stabil to neutralize the effects of the ethanol.
@luvche21 What @RiotDemon said. Octane is irrelevant. It’s the ethanol that matters. If you live in Louisiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Oregon, Pennsylvania, or Washington, there’s ethanol in the gas and you should be seeking out non-oxy gas. Here’s a map to help: http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html
@droopus Avgas is 100 octane, and also still has tetraethyl lead in it. It’s lower than it used to be, hence the current formula being called 100LL for “low lead”, but it’s only slightly lower than what used to be sold for cars. Unless your engine was designed for lead, you probably shouldn’t use it, and even if it was you still probably shouldn’t, because tetraethyl lead is terrible stuff. There’s a strong correlation showing that the increase in violent crime the U.S. saw in the latter half of the 20th century may have come from the increased use of leaded gasoline (people who commit violent crimes often show symptoms of brain damage caused by exposure to lead at a young age, symptoms that tend to lead to violent behavior). If that correlation is in fact a cause, it may also be that the steady decline in violent crime we’ve been seeing since the 1990s may have more to do with the reduced use of tetraethyl lead in automobile gasoline than any specific policing strategy.
@michaelahess Perhaps. As I mentioned I put it in my M3. All my cars have had high compression engines and if I ever put 87 or 89 in them, it was absolutely noticeable. I would assume a Sentra would neither require it, nor see any performance blip.
@jqubed When I was buying avgas in the 70s, leaded gas was still available, and I put it in a 2.6 Porsche 911. I never put it in any of my M3s, starting with the E30. Yes indeed, lead is some nasty stuff, no question.
@droopus Burns the valves if the heads arent’ set up for it. Had friend that usta tank up hi brand new caddy on drill weekends loved the way the engine jumped to start, after 6 mos he had no compression.
@cranky1950 I can imagine. With my history, I guess it’s better to be lucky than smart. There were times in my old 911 when I was running avgas that I expected an explosion behind me at any moment.
That 911 had less than half the bhp of my M3GTR (150 vs 380) but it was MUCH scarier.
@droopus yep high compression requires higher octane, but higher than the manufacture recommends will not be noticable under the majority of scenarios.
I have a 2013 Mustang GT CS that supposedly gets 20+more horses on premium. I’ve done very careful comparisons and can’t tell the difference at all. I’m also over 5k in altitude. Lower elevations could be noticable, but even then it would be very minor.
Race gas is great if the engine is FI and able to adjust timings widely enough, custom tune for example.
Reading my comment back, I came off like a dick. I apologise, this is an intense topic to me. I see so many friends needlessly wasting money and not understanding what they are doing.
Higher octane delays ignition under pressure. Higher compression engines require higher (premium) octane fuel to prevent pre-detenation. Pre-detention is bad, and the engines knock sensors can only retard detention so much. A vehicle that requires 91 can actually damage itself if you use 85 all the time. An engine that requires 87 won’t care if you use 85.
Altitude affects this as well, less oxygen in the air at higher altitude throws off the stochiometric ratio. But that’s another story. And I know I didn’t spell it right.
There is nothing premium in premium gas.
Brands have different cleaning packages in their fuel, that can make a difference.
@Al_Coholic Generally the name brand ones are good. It’s actually not the gas itself, that comes from the closest refinery. It’s the additives that each company adds.
“Cheapy” discount brands generally don’t have as good of additives or maybe even any at all. That’s not necessarily BAD, but to keep your fuel system clean you’d want to run “good gas” from time to time. Older vehicles, especially carbureted ones, won’t be upset with the occasional fuel system cleaner as well. Just don’t use that stuff very often. It’s hard on the seals and rubber bits.
And all modern engines are built to handle 10-15% ethanol. Don’t let that dissuade you vs premium “pure” gas. You get slightly less energy density, but the mileage difference vs the cost increase of Premium is NOT a winning battle.
I use the super expensive (relatively) can’s of mixed fuel for my small engines because it’s easy and as someone else mentioned, I haven’t had to rebuild a carb in YEARS. But lawn mower and larger “small” gas engines will run fine on normal gas, just use a fuel stabilizer ALL YEAR, not just for storage. Keeps the fuel properly mixed so the ethanol doesn’t get as good a chance to separate and corrode things.
@michaelahess This is great info, thanks. But I have a new question…
I finally got around to looking up the “top tier” brands and just about every one I’ve heard of is listed. So where do you get the “cheap” stuff? Or are some name brands just better than others?
@Al_Coholic some are better but not significantly enough to worry about. Find the best club deal by brand and/or get a good credit card that gives 5 percent rewards on gas. Or Costco and Sam’s Club if you are a member.
@Pony nice car… love the old cougars and mustangs cars …course also love the 'vettes, the 'cudas, the road runners too…love going to car shows to look at these car beasts…
I can tell the difference when I have to drive up and down hills/mountains and that’s when I fill up w/premium. Otherwise just regular gas tooling around town.
I bought a crazy customized pumped up Eclipse that the original owner recommended premium for. That car was so neurotic it rarely ran, but no one ever sat down in it and didn’t end up wanting it. It roared like a dragon and took the twists and curves of Scenic Drive (speed limit 15) at 45mph like it was on rails. I had to learn to adjust my driving as I am used to lightweight stick Civics, and I angle my nose toward the wall on turns to account for slide, but that Eclipse didn’t give an inch even on gravel. A phenomenal drive when it ran.
But since I have several older small engined devices, no/low ethanol is the only gas I put in those.
Since the only “reasonable” priced way to get low ethanol anywhere in our region is a gas station located inconveniently, I buy premium low ethanol for all those small engines. Simplicity.
The other option would be buying it from a marina since older boat engines also hate ethanol. But not eager to pay $4-5/gallon.
Here in Iowa it can be hard to find fuel without ethanol, and often premium is the one without. That’s why I switched to premium. Now I stay because I feel like it’s helping my car (a 2000 with 237,000 miles) stay running, and I get about 10% better gas mileage.
I haven’t asked for Ethyl since the 70’s.
Everything I drive now gets reg gas or diesel.
The premix gas I use for equipment is the TruFuel stuff already mixed. That stuff is amazing, haven’t had to rebuild or work on anything since I’ve used that.
@daveinwarsh Yes! TruFuel is amazing. The extra cost is worth it, as all of my small engines run like a charm and I don’t need to worry about leaving the fuel in my equipment over the winter. Recommending to @RedOak for your chainsaw…
@gregormehndel I’ve used it. Liked it. Got 4-5 cans of it thrown in when I bought my latest Husqvarna.
But too expensive for the amount we go thru. Both at home and at our heavily wooded off grid rural vacation property.
Instead only buy 30 days worth premium low ethanol and add Stabil (and 2-cycle oil if required). Ironically I re-use the TruFuel cans - refilling my mix into them since they’re easy to toss in a paint pail with the other gear I need.
@RedOak Yeah, it’s more expensive. I used to mix my own gas, adding Stabil to the mix, but my chainsaw & other stuff still would gum up the carb due to the damn ethanol.
Nowadays, I only cut a couple cords of wood a year with my old Stihl 032 (I purchased in 1982, I think) and I don’t really go through much mix gas. Trufuel has made that chainsaw run almost like new & start on 2 pulls.
I also have a weedeater that uses mix also I guess…
@daveinwarsh Yah, I only use low ethanol premium (the station owner claims less than 2%). We have thousands of classic cars in our region so some stations sell not only low ethanol gasoline, but also racing fuel.
You’re not burning that softwood inside are you? Speaking of gumming things up like the chimney.
We got nailed by the ash borer so, while all we do is camp off grid on the property, we have a lifetime supply of beautifully burning ash. Lots of maple trees as well. What a devastating bug. Thankfully we have some tree diversity but those big grand ashes opened up some solar exposure for us.
Nice saw you have there and it looks perfectly taken care of. Our grass trimmer and blower are Stihl - they’re great but I love our Husqvarna saw as well.
Your photo is making me hanker to get to our property to cut wood!
@RedOak Yes, I burn the Douglas Fir in my stove as the main fuel. With a 2yr dry cycle, it actually burns pretty darn clean. I sweep my chimney every Fall & I get very little soot. It’s the Western Hemlocks and Alder that are very ashy, and the Cedar burns too hot & fast. We have a few Madrona trees, but I don’t use them unless they fall.
That’s about it for trees, except the Sequoia Redwoods we planted 30 yrs ago.
I’m still running a chisel/skip tooth chain on my 20" bar & it goes though those trees like butter. I do have a bench-mount sharpener, though…
That Stihl saw is in pretty good shape. I did drop a rather large tree on it once, had to replace the handle. A gust of wind at the wrong time. I dropped the saw & ran…
@RedOak@davinwarsh Yeah, too expensive to use all the time, but I like to use it in spring, then not until late Fall/early Winter. BTW, before I was using TruFuel as a conditioner for long periods of non-use, I used Sea Foam instead of Stabil. I think it actually works better! For reference, my equipment is all Stihl or John Deere.
@apLundell exactly this. I was very confused why there wasn’t an option of “my car requires premium”, maybe with the requires in bold. I drive a 2017 Golf R (so much fun) and it requires minimum 91, which where I live and the options are 87 / 89 / 93, I get 93 premium gas.
I picked the last option, but I was really hoping for a “Yes, I picked it on accident when I meant to pick simple Unleaded.” The pump was marked backwards compared with most other pumps.
If you really want to “treat” your engine go for the detergents, not higher octane when your car manufacturer does not call for it. Most fuels get to your local region to be stored in the same tanks. Each brand is only differentiated by the additional detergents and such added before going to the stations. Look up “top tier” fuels to learn more. Some brands have all of their octanes meet the top tier standard, others only do this for their premium grade. My car requires premium (Q50s hybrid) but our minivan (Odyssey) just needs regular… I still buy top tier for both, even at the different octanes. Studies by car makers (where they dissect used engines) have shown it really does make a difference.
To avoid losing my mehtizen status, I joined the Shell fuel rewards program and get anywhere between $0.10 and $0.35 off per gallon based on purchases, T-Mobile Tuesday promos, number of fill ups, etc. So the premium price doesn’t sting as bad.
@f00l You download their T-Mobile Tuesday app (you can do this for each line you have). Then on Tuesdays you open the app to see what your specific rewards are. Sometimes you get stuff that others don’t. We’ve gotten free pizza (Dominos at first, then Papa Johns), restaurant vouchers, t-shirts, and then yesterday we had $0.25 off per gallon for Shell gas again which surprised me since we last had it just a couple of weeks ago too.
So far I’ve only seen it for Shell, which is perfect for me. My other favorite gas is Chevron, but they don’t have a rewards program.
Their starting price in our area is so much higher than the market that SAMs’ starting price of 15-25 cents below market + 5% cashback on their card consistently equals or beats Shell + Kroger/TMO/whomever… with no hassles or games.
… and if you hate SAMs (they’re now actually competing a lot better and have the wonderful Scan & Go app that eliminates checkout lines) or only have Costco in the area, same thing for Costco but 4% cashback vs. SAMs 5%.
You pay at the pump with a credit card - no cash accepted. I assume also they accept debit cards but not sure why anybody would do that with their club 5%/4% cashback credit cards. SAMs is more flexible about which credit card whilst Costco is only Visa.
Costco gas is Top Tier but, coincidentally, I have this exact dialog going with SAMs customer support since I do not think theirs is Top Tier. Threatened them that we’d likely switch back to Costco for gas even tho their cash back is 4 rather than 5%.
I’ve never seen diesel fuel at either club but wouldn’t be surprised to learn some clubs sell it. Especially with Costco, it is all about volume - if the demand is/isn’t there, then they do/don’t offer it. (We don’t have propane available at any of our Costcos, but I know it is sold at some around the country.)
BTW, we know people who have either a Costco or SAMs membership and rarely enter the store - they primarily buy gas.
People often say to me, “well you know your car will still run with lower octane gas so you can save some money that way.” The reasons I bought a car with an engine that wants high octane fuel mean I will never put a lower octane fuel in it. I didn’t buy it to economize (even if I have beaten the EPA’s highway fuel economy estimates), I bought it to have fun!
My Pontiac Vibe GT calls for ≥ 91 octane. I usually get my gas at Sam’s or Costco (93 octane) if I don’t have enough in my fuel rewards program to bring it lower than that cost. Have occasionally mixed options to hit 91 but usually don’t bother. The few times I used simple regular I didn’t notice a lot of knock or power loss, but I did notice a drop in MPG of about 10%, so having higher octane available at any price point that is less than 10% more is a breakeven and promotes better engine health… Sam’s and Costco generally hit that sweet spot.
Most of my cars run on a mix of prayer, duct tape, and way too old motor oil. Any advantage of premium gas adds would be negligible. But if I had a nice car, I’d probably pay up.
I used to have a car that required premium to get full performance out of it. I did put regular in it on a couple of occasions, but you could feel the performance drop. My current car doesn’t need it, so I don’t buy it. It would just be a waste of money.
I came here to hear someone tell me why I should use premium, non-ethanol gasoline to get higher MPG. Does anyone know? Do I need to look for simple non-ethanol or fancy premium to get better MPG?
@kshannon1 Non-ethanol should provide slightly better fuel economy because ethanol contains less energy than petroleum gasoline. However, if there’s 30% less energy and the fuel is only 10% ethanol, that’s a 3% overall difference in energy content… Less than 1 mpg for most vehicles, which you’ll probably make up for by seeking out and paying more for non-e gas.
There’s debate over whether or not any amount of ethanol is bad for the engine; my googling suggests that more modern cars are usually fine and pre-2000 cars are at greater risk.
As other posters have said, buying a “top-tier” brand is probably more important than ethanol content, and octane requirements depend on the engine.
Used it for the first time in a year two days ago. My AMC Eagle wagon has a stroker motor, and I was pulling a large trailer. Otherwise, 87 in everything but my Ducati. Premium is a waste of money unless your engine requires it.
My Volvo s90 required 91 octane. Sometimes I would use half 89 and half 93, didn’t feel any difference with the mixture over using just 93. My current car only requires 87, so that is what it gets.
When I used to drag race (No, not the Ru Paul kind) I ran a 50/50 blend of racing gas & premium gasoline. Made my 407 cubic inch V-8 purr like a kitten…Well, maybe ROAR like a lion! Too fun & too expensive, hence, “used to drag race”.
@f00l yeah I was very small, but buying gas was a big event considering I was stuck up on the hill if I wasn’t riding in the car. Damn dog usta tackle me if I tried t o sneak off.
Wow, a lot of Meh users have fancy cars! I guess that’s the payoff for saving pennies on bulk bidets?
I’ll have you know that I settled for nothing but the lowest octane for my old Honda Fit. Vroom vroom, the little car that sorta could! I have a Subaru Impreza now, which is overall better at being a car, but also eats a lot more (regular) gas. Sigh.
the other day, safeway had a coupon in the app where you got 50 cents off gas if you spent more than $50 on groceries. so i filled my tank with the cheapest gas in town, minus 50 cents. $2.19 motha fuckas. and shut up gas is expensive here.
I live in an area with some of the most expensive states for gas.
(Although, even though NJ raised their prices last year as part of an effort to cut homeowners taxes, thus making them an expensive state, it’s still better than NY…)
@PlacidPenguin They changed it? That’s a shame. I used to always love filling my tank right after I visited my parents- way cheaper than anywhere else I drive, and I don’t have to get out of the car.
I bought 91 octane for almost 10 years because the manual for my Acura CL-S called for it. I also got non-ethanol back when I had to mow and take care of a lawn. However, my current vehicle (Subaru Legacy) only calls for 89, so that’s what it gets. As noted by many, buying “premium” gas is usually a waste unless the manual calls for it.
I only go to Shell or Chevron and consider it a bit of a personal mission to inform friends of what top tier gas is. I’ve had so many come back to say their mileage got better and engine runs better than the discount crap they’d used for years.
@ScottN Over multiple tanks, I have found some differences in quality with my wagon. 76 and Chevron, I’ve averaged the best mileage. Shell and Costco, 0.2 less. Arco (BP), 0.3 less. Off-brands, 0.5+ mpg less.
I lose 1.5 to 2 mpg going 87 versus 91.
Staying out of boost all the time has been the biggest factor in my mpg.
@f00l on a turbocharged car the turbo doesn’t start adding pressure (boosting power and fuel consumption) until you put your foot on it hard. You can drive gently and stay out of boost.
Supercharged cars are different in that they are always under boost.
I bought premium gas when my high compression engine equipped European sports car required it. I commute now all the time so that car is long gone (sadly) and I use shitty cheap gas like a normal person.
@f00l I buy gas in South Carolina going and coming from home. I figure if I have to beat the crap out of my car using their tea party roads I might as well take advantage of the cheap gas.
@cranky1950
Here we mostly have really nice roads, except for all the limited access roads in the big cities.
And those would be quite nice,
if they weren’t under construction every days for decades. : (
If they weren’t under construction every day for decades, they would be very nicely constructed parking lots much of the day. : (
Even so, many of them are reasonably driveable.
If the state and local roads, and the farm-to-market roads, and the state highways weren’t usually pretty nice statewide, you would see serious state-level voter unhappiness among all demographics. We kinda consider “nice roads” to be part of the state heritage.
Similar topic, what oil do you guys use? I use rotella T6- supposedly doesn’t shear as much as most others at high temperatures (my car has a turbo boxer engine, so gets hot), the zinc dry lubricates turbo, and it’s on sale for 20 bucks/gallon all the time.
@Pantheist Valvoline synthetic with the old engine package my car has 200000mi. My engine never really works hard though because its a hybrid and I drive like an old lady.
@Pantheist don’t need anything fancy. Most oils are hyped for marketing only. If your ride needs full synthetic, any big name brand will do, find the best sale price. Dollar store/convenience store oil has way less additives, so avoid those. For dino oil, same thing, just change more often. 3k is a waste for almost all cars.
I do 5k or two years, whichever comes first in my old truck. 8k or 1 year for my newer truck and crap car. 10k or 1 year on both of my synth cars. The last two I’m way overprotective of for no real reason, synth goes longer without acid buildup or molecular breakdown compared to conventional.
Get a sample tested from Blackstone if you’re curious on how much life is left. Bobistheoilguy.com is a good resource as well. And for Pete sale don’t by $10 oil filters, what a ripoff those are.
@michaelahess bob why I originally started using t6. Napa gold is the only aftermarket oil filter that has the same bypass pressure as OEM for my car, but 7 bucks isn’t bad.
@Pantheist Yeah I usually get pure ones on sale for a couple bucks, the motorcraft for my wife’s Mustang are the most expensive I buy as they aren’t on sale hardly ever, 5-6 maybe. I try to buy in bulk and get them down to 5. I have about 4 years of filters for 5 vehicles with the average filter cost under 2 bucks.
I bought premium gas today. Non gasohol premium 2.799 4 gallons, should last me into August. My small engines love the stuff, no stuck valves since I started using it.
I have to use premium gas in my truck.
Supercharged engines require it.
@clonetek can I borrow your truck? I need to get some more dirt for my yard as fill before I hydroseed
@luvche21 I’m sure you can find an old camaro or trans am to do that for you
@luvche21 can you hydroseed my lawn too?
@meh well, I’m hiring that part out, but by next week I’ll be a pro at installing sprinkler systems!
Check you manual, the octane requirement is listed… most cars do not need anything above 89.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0210-paying-premium-high-octane-gasoline
I only buy it because my 1st Gen Chevy Volt says it needs it. But because I own a Volt, I barely ever buy gas. I think the last time I stopped at a gas station was back in December. Yes, I’m bragging and yes, you can suck it.
@Blahbbs My iMiev is all electric. Only thing I would change on mine is the range on a charge. In reality I dont need more range 99% of the time but it would be cool to take it on some long treks.
@speediedelivery Even though I rarely use gas, it’s nice to have it just in case. 3.5-4.0 miles/kWh.
@Blahbbs Is the gas still good after sitting unused in your tank for almost 5 months?
@Blahbbs Ditto. Except i did go on a road trip, so i did have to fill up once this year. It cost nearly twenty dollars! It ran the engine a couple times in service mode, too.
@Blahbbs You have to use you gas every 30 days or add stabil or Pro-G to stabilize it for 6 mos or you can seriously hurt your engine.
Mid grade homie
Yes – recommended for my sports car – course it costs more money but so did my car
@AttyVette I was about to ask what type of car. Then I saw your name…
@Andrew_B
-- Also, we use to have a 2011 Volt that recommended it. Furthermore, I also buy premium for my z car too… yeah…gasoline companies love my choices in vehicles…
I buy premium for my small.gas engines: snow blower, lawn mower, string trimmer, leaf blower, etc. Up here (Minnesota) the premium is non-oxygenated and contains no ethanol. That shit tends to gum up the small passageways in the smaller engines and leads to issues. I swear by the non-oxygenated gas.
@SpenceMan01 I learned the hard way that if you don’t buy premium for small engines, you can do serious damage. I burned up a chainsaw in two years by using regular. That ethanol is killer!
@SpenceMan01 I just got my first lawn mower, would you recommend higher octane all the time no matter where you live?
I got it used from a friend, so I don’t have a manual for it to check recommendations…
@luvche21 from what I’ve always heard, it’s not necessarily the high octane you need. You’re better off buying non ethanol gas. The ethanol messes up the fuel lines. Around here, the only non ethanol gas that’s offered is 93 octane. But not all 93 is non ethanol.
If you can’t find non ethanol, use stabil to neutralize the effects of the ethanol.
@luvche21 What @RiotDemon said. Octane is irrelevant. It’s the ethanol that matters. If you live in Louisiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Oregon, Pennsylvania, or Washington, there’s ethanol in the gas and you should be seeking out non-oxy gas. Here’s a map to help:
http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html
Other states have varying laws regarding notification of ethanol content: http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html
@SpenceMan01 According to your links, I’m in a state that only requires the label if it’s 1% or higher - is less than 1% enough to worry about?
E46 M3GTR. Always premium. When I was young, I used to get Avgas for prop planes from the airport…like 106 octane, it was amazing.
Unless you drive a purely economy car, premium is worth the extra, IMVHO.
@droopus you are wrong and science proves it. Zero improvement to a vehicle that doesn’t require it.
@droopus Avgas is 100 octane, and also still has tetraethyl lead in it. It’s lower than it used to be, hence the current formula being called 100LL for “low lead”, but it’s only slightly lower than what used to be sold for cars. Unless your engine was designed for lead, you probably shouldn’t use it, and even if it was you still probably shouldn’t, because tetraethyl lead is terrible stuff. There’s a strong correlation showing that the increase in violent crime the U.S. saw in the latter half of the 20th century may have come from the increased use of leaded gasoline (people who commit violent crimes often show symptoms of brain damage caused by exposure to lead at a young age, symptoms that tend to lead to violent behavior). If that correlation is in fact a cause, it may also be that the steady decline in violent crime we’ve been seeing since the 1990s may have more to do with the reduced use of tetraethyl lead in automobile gasoline than any specific policing strategy.
@jqubed So Chicago is secretly selling leaded gas now?
@El_Oel Maybe they need to check their pipes.
@jqubed If your car has a cat you can’t use it or you’ll kill the cat and it will clog.
@michaelahess Perhaps. As I mentioned I put it in my M3. All my cars have had high compression engines and if I ever put 87 or 89 in them, it was absolutely noticeable. I would assume a Sentra would neither require it, nor see any performance blip.
Sorry for my unclear writing. Must work on that.
@jqubed When I was buying avgas in the 70s, leaded gas was still available, and I put it in a 2.6 Porsche 911. I never put it in any of my M3s, starting with the E30. Yes indeed, lead is some nasty stuff, no question.
@droopus Burns the valves if the heads arent’ set up for it. Had friend that usta tank up hi brand new caddy on drill weekends loved the way the engine jumped to start, after 6 mos he had no compression.
@cranky1950 I can imagine. With my history, I guess it’s better to be lucky than smart. There were times in my old 911 when I was running avgas that I expected an explosion behind me at any moment.
That 911 had less than half the bhp of my M3GTR (150 vs 380) but it was MUCH scarier.
@droopus yep high compression requires higher octane, but higher than the manufacture recommends will not be noticable under the majority of scenarios.
I have a 2013 Mustang GT CS that supposedly gets 20+more horses on premium. I’ve done very careful comparisons and can’t tell the difference at all. I’m also over 5k in altitude. Lower elevations could be noticable, but even then it would be very minor.
Race gas is great if the engine is FI and able to adjust timings widely enough, custom tune for example.
Reading my comment back, I came off like a dick. I apologise, this is an intense topic to me. I see so many friends needlessly wasting money and not understanding what they are doing.
I have to use it in my car with a turbo engine but not my other car with a regular engine. I also buy it for my motorcycle.
Engine timing gets messed up if I use lower than 91. Lots of places only sell 89 or 93, so I blend the two.
Is that really worth the hassle, @Pantheist? I mean, you’re just paying an extra 10¢ per gallon, right? So you be saving just a couple of bucks…?
@haydesigner That adds up…
As does the inconvenience,@michaelahess
Higher octane delays ignition under pressure. Higher compression engines require higher (premium) octane fuel to prevent pre-detenation. Pre-detention is bad, and the engines knock sensors can only retard detention so much. A vehicle that requires 91 can actually damage itself if you use 85 all the time. An engine that requires 87 won’t care if you use 85.
Altitude affects this as well, less oxygen in the air at higher altitude throws off the stochiometric ratio. But that’s another story. And I know I didn’t spell it right.
There is nothing premium in premium gas.
Brands have different cleaning packages in their fuel, that can make a difference.
Buy good gas, not premium fuel.
@michaelahess ok but what are the good ones?
@Al_Coholic Generally the name brand ones are good. It’s actually not the gas itself, that comes from the closest refinery. It’s the additives that each company adds.
“Cheapy” discount brands generally don’t have as good of additives or maybe even any at all. That’s not necessarily BAD, but to keep your fuel system clean you’d want to run “good gas” from time to time. Older vehicles, especially carbureted ones, won’t be upset with the occasional fuel system cleaner as well. Just don’t use that stuff very often. It’s hard on the seals and rubber bits.
And all modern engines are built to handle 10-15% ethanol. Don’t let that dissuade you vs premium “pure” gas. You get slightly less energy density, but the mileage difference vs the cost increase of Premium is NOT a winning battle.
I use the super expensive (relatively) can’s of mixed fuel for my small engines because it’s easy and as someone else mentioned, I haven’t had to rebuild a carb in YEARS. But lawn mower and larger “small” gas engines will run fine on normal gas, just use a fuel stabilizer ALL YEAR, not just for storage. Keeps the fuel properly mixed so the ethanol doesn’t get as good a chance to separate and corrode things.
@michaelahess Stoichiometric - now there’s a word I have heard in 10 years - since college Gen Chem.
@michaelahess This is great info, thanks. But I have a new question…
I finally got around to looking up the “top tier” brands and just about every one I’ve heard of is listed. So where do you get the “cheap” stuff? Or are some name brands just better than others?
@Al_Coholic some are better but not significantly enough to worry about. Find the best club deal by brand and/or get a good credit card that gives 5 percent rewards on gas. Or Costco and Sam’s Club if you are a member.
My '70 Cougar XR-7 wouldn’t run right on anything but premium. She was a fussy bitch, but damn, she could haul ass.
@Pony nice car… love the old cougars and mustangs cars …course also love the 'vettes, the 'cudas, the road runners too…love going to car shows to look at these car beasts…
@AttyVette My favorite car was a '68 Camaro. She was my daily driver for 11 years. I loved that car so hard.
@Pony My family had a '79 Cougar XR-7. Sexy car but shit for reliability.
I can tell the difference when I have to drive up and down hills/mountains and that’s when I fill up w/premium. Otherwise just regular gas tooling around town.
Never for the car. Always for the motorcycle. Zoom zoom
I bought a crazy customized pumped up Eclipse that the original owner recommended premium for. That car was so neurotic it rarely ran, but no one ever sat down in it and didn’t end up wanting it. It roared like a dragon and took the twists and curves of Scenic Drive (speed limit 15) at 45mph like it was on rails. I had to learn to adjust my driving as I am used to lightweight stick Civics, and I angle my nose toward the wall on turns to account for slide, but that Eclipse didn’t give an inch even on gravel. A phenomenal drive when it ran.
@moondrake El Paso…
Even before I read the text
@moondrake El Paso, even before I saw the photo!
I buy it primarily for my precious chainsaw.
But since I have several older small engined devices, no/low ethanol is the only gas I put in those.
Since the only “reasonable” priced way to get low ethanol anywhere in our region is a gas station located inconveniently, I buy premium low ethanol for all those small engines. Simplicity.
The other option would be buying it from a marina since older boat engines also hate ethanol. But not eager to pay $4-5/gallon.
Always premium for my WRX Sti and before it got struck by lightning, also in my Evo.
Here in Iowa it can be hard to find fuel without ethanol, and often premium is the one without. That’s why I switched to premium. Now I stay because I feel like it’s helping my car (a 2000 with 237,000 miles) stay running, and I get about 10% better gas mileage.
I haven’t asked for Ethyl since the 70’s.
Everything I drive now gets reg gas or diesel.
The premix gas I use for equipment is the TruFuel stuff already mixed. That stuff is amazing, haven’t had to rebuild or work on anything since I’ve used that.
@daveinwarsh Yes! TruFuel is amazing. The extra cost is worth it, as all of my small engines run like a charm and I don’t need to worry about leaving the fuel in my equipment over the winter. Recommending to @RedOak for your chainsaw…
@gregormehndel I’ve used it. Liked it. Got 4-5 cans of it thrown in when I bought my latest Husqvarna.
But too expensive for the amount we go thru. Both at home and at our heavily wooded off grid rural vacation property.
Instead only buy 30 days worth premium low ethanol and add Stabil (and 2-cycle oil if required). Ironically I re-use the TruFuel cans - refilling my mix into them since they’re easy to toss in a paint pail with the other gear I need.
@RedOak Yeah, it’s more expensive. I used to mix my own gas, adding Stabil to the mix, but my chainsaw & other stuff still would gum up the carb due to the damn ethanol.
Nowadays, I only cut a couple cords of wood a year with my old Stihl 032 (I purchased in 1982, I think) and I don’t really go through much mix gas. Trufuel has made that chainsaw run almost like new & start on 2 pulls.
I also have a weedeater that uses mix also I guess…
Here’s a couple firs that dropped last winter:
@daveinwarsh Yah, I only use low ethanol premium (the station owner claims less than 2%). We have thousands of classic cars in our region so some stations sell not only low ethanol gasoline, but also racing fuel.
You’re not burning that softwood inside are you? Speaking of gumming things up like the chimney.
We got nailed by the ash borer so, while all we do is camp off grid on the property, we have a lifetime supply of beautifully burning ash. Lots of maple trees as well. What a devastating bug. Thankfully we have some tree diversity but those big grand ashes opened up some solar exposure for us.
Nice saw you have there and it looks perfectly taken care of. Our grass trimmer and blower are Stihl - they’re great but I love our Husqvarna saw as well.
Your photo is making me hanker to get to our property to cut wood!
@RedOak Yes, I burn the Douglas Fir in my stove as the main fuel. With a 2yr dry cycle, it actually burns pretty darn clean. I sweep my chimney every Fall & I get very little soot. It’s the Western Hemlocks and Alder that are very ashy, and the Cedar burns too hot & fast. We have a few Madrona trees, but I don’t use them unless they fall.
That’s about it for trees, except the Sequoia Redwoods we planted 30 yrs ago.
I’m still running a chisel/skip tooth chain on my 20" bar & it goes though those trees like butter. I do have a bench-mount sharpener, though…
That Stihl saw is in pretty good shape. I did drop a rather large tree on it once, had to replace the handle. A gust of wind at the wrong time. I dropped the saw & ran…
@daveinwarsh
The shiniest chainsaw won’t cut a single log if its owner’s back broke the fall of a tree!
@RedOak @davinwarsh Yeah, too expensive to use all the time, but I like to use it in spring, then not until late Fall/early Winter. BTW, before I was using TruFuel as a conditioner for long periods of non-use, I used Sea Foam instead of Stabil. I think it actually works better! For reference, my equipment is all Stihl or John Deere.
I’ll never understand the people who like to pretend that this is some sort of “why not treat yourself?” style quality question.
Look in your car’s owner’s manual and fill your car with the kind of gas you’re supposed to fill it with.
@apLundell Preach! I drive a 2003 Malibu. Premium gas ain’t gonna do anything when the manual itself says it needs regular.
@apLundell exactly this. I was very confused why there wasn’t an option of “my car requires premium”, maybe with the requires in bold. I drive a 2017 Golf R (so much fun) and it requires minimum 91, which where I live and the options are 87 / 89 / 93, I get 93 premium gas.
I picked the last option, but I was really hoping for a “Yes, I picked it on accident when I meant to pick simple Unleaded.” The pump was marked backwards compared with most other pumps.
If you really want to “treat” your engine go for the detergents, not higher octane when your car manufacturer does not call for it. Most fuels get to your local region to be stored in the same tanks. Each brand is only differentiated by the additional detergents and such added before going to the stations. Look up “top tier” fuels to learn more. Some brands have all of their octanes meet the top tier standard, others only do this for their premium grade. My car requires premium (Q50s hybrid) but our minivan (Odyssey) just needs regular… I still buy top tier for both, even at the different octanes. Studies by car makers (where they dissect used engines) have shown it really does make a difference.
To avoid losing my mehtizen status, I joined the Shell fuel rewards program and get anywhere between $0.10 and $0.35 off per gallon based on purchases, T-Mobile Tuesday promos, number of fill ups, etc. So the premium price doesn’t sting as bad.
@jester747 the last paragraph
@jester747 yep… and this week T-Mo gave us $.25 a gallon off.
@chienfou
@jester747
How does the T-Mobile thing work w shell? Is it just shell?
@f00l You download their T-Mobile Tuesday app (you can do this for each line you have). Then on Tuesdays you open the app to see what your specific rewards are. Sometimes you get stuff that others don’t. We’ve gotten free pizza (Dominos at first, then Papa Johns), restaurant vouchers, t-shirts, and then yesterday we had $0.25 off per gallon for Shell gas again which surprised me since we last had it just a couple of weeks ago too.
So far I’ve only seen it for Shell, which is perfect for me. My other favorite gas is Chevron, but they don’t have a rewards program.
@jester747
Ok. I used the Tuesday thing till they split with dominos. Then they had nothing I used for a while, so I quit looking.
@jester747 Blah on Shell.
Their starting price in our area is so much higher than the market that SAMs’ starting price of 15-25 cents below market + 5% cashback on their card consistently equals or beats Shell + Kroger/TMO/whomever… with no hassles or games.
… and if you hate SAMs (they’re now actually competing a lot better and have the wonderful Scan & Go app that eliminates checkout lines) or only have Costco in the area, same thing for Costco but 4% cashback vs. SAMs 5%.
@RedOak
How do you pay at Sam’s and Costco? Do they do credit cards at the pump? I’m not going inside to pay for gas.
Is their gas Top Tier gas? You know if they have diesel?
@f00l In sequence…
You pay at the pump with a credit card - no cash accepted. I assume also they accept debit cards but not sure why anybody would do that with their club 5%/4% cashback credit cards. SAMs is more flexible about which credit card whilst Costco is only Visa.
Costco gas is Top Tier but, coincidentally, I have this exact dialog going with SAMs customer support since I do not think theirs is Top Tier. Threatened them that we’d likely switch back to Costco for gas even tho their cash back is 4 rather than 5%.
I’ve never seen diesel fuel at either club but wouldn’t be surprised to learn some clubs sell it. Especially with Costco, it is all about volume - if the demand is/isn’t there, then they do/don’t offer it. (We don’t have propane available at any of our Costcos, but I know it is sold at some around the country.)
BTW, we know people who have either a Costco or SAMs membership and rarely enter the store - they primarily buy gas.
Yes. I drive a scooter because I’m cool, and it requires 91+
I average over 70 mpg too!
@luvche21
Ok u cool.
; )
@f00l thanks, I always knew that, but it’s really nice to hear the validation
My car recommends 91+ for the turbo charger, but if your car doesn’t require it I would skip the premium.
I always buy premium diesel. Every time without fail. And it had better have premium ethanol in it too, or I’ll complain.
@f00l
/image blinker fluid
@narfcake
Yeah, I put that in the tank also, along with premium champers. I want to keep the engine blinker running real smooth.
@f00l and don’t forget to grease the rear gonkulator seals…
@chienfou No no no. The muffler bearings need grease. The seals need fishes.
@chienfou
@nardcake
I’ve been using a mixture of bacon grease and “a little dab’ll do ya” Brylcreem in both places. You think that’s ok?
@narfcake, I’m willing to add fish oil too.
@f00l
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Your car isn’t British, is it?
/image Lucas smoke
@narfcake
German. But with an attitude by way of France.
@narfcake
I know what her car looks like.
@f00l
/image I’m le tired
@PlacidPenguin
I would say that either you’re paranormal or you’ve been at the databases.
But I think I actually gave that info out somewhere on here.
@f00l
Neither.
@jqubed
French headache
People often say to me, “well you know your car will still run with lower octane gas so you can save some money that way.” The reasons I bought a car with an engine that wants high octane fuel mean I will never put a lower octane fuel in it. I didn’t buy it to economize (even if I have beaten the EPA’s highway fuel economy estimates), I bought it to have fun!
@jqubed
Your computer will run if you leave it out in the rain, too. Just because it works doesn’t mean it’s best for performance and longevity.
Puffwagon, yes. Turbo, RWD, stick shift.
Truck, nope. GM designed it for 87.
@narfcake
My Pontiac Vibe GT calls for ≥ 91 octane. I usually get my gas at Sam’s or Costco (93 octane) if I don’t have enough in my fuel rewards program to bring it lower than that cost. Have occasionally mixed options to hit 91 but usually don’t bother. The few times I used simple regular I didn’t notice a lot of knock or power loss, but I did notice a drop in MPG of about 10%, so having higher octane available at any price point that is less than 10% more is a breakeven and promotes better engine health… Sam’s and Costco generally hit that sweet spot.
Most of my cars run on a mix of prayer, duct tape, and way too old motor oil. Any advantage of premium gas adds would be negligible. But if I had a nice car, I’d probably pay up.
My motorcycle requires premium, I get pinging if I use the cheap stuff!
I paid for premium because I hit the wrong button at the pump.
I used to have a car that required premium to get full performance out of it. I did put regular in it on a couple of occasions, but you could feel the performance drop. My current car doesn’t need it, so I don’t buy it. It would just be a waste of money.
Premium gasoline, in Iowa, has ethanol. I avoid ethanol like the plague, because ethanol is pretty much the same thing as the plague, for vehicles.
@TheCO2 Interesting. I’ve never seen ethanol in premium before.
@robswiger It’s Iowa - they put ethanol in the ethanol…
I came here to hear someone tell me why I should use premium, non-ethanol gasoline to get higher MPG. Does anyone know? Do I need to look for simple non-ethanol or fancy premium to get better MPG?
@kshannon1 clearly, I’m also an Iowan.
@kshannon1 You should only use it if your manufacturer recommends it. Otherwise, you are wasting money. I hope this helps!
@kshannon1 Non-ethanol should provide slightly better fuel economy because ethanol contains less energy than petroleum gasoline. However, if there’s 30% less energy and the fuel is only 10% ethanol, that’s a 3% overall difference in energy content… Less than 1 mpg for most vehicles, which you’ll probably make up for by seeking out and paying more for non-e gas.
There’s debate over whether or not any amount of ethanol is bad for the engine; my googling suggests that more modern cars are usually fine and pre-2000 cars are at greater risk.
As other posters have said, buying a “top-tier” brand is probably more important than ethanol content, and octane requirements depend on the engine.
I had to use premium in my Nissan Maxima. It is required by the manufacturer. My Nissan Armada requires only regular so no need to now.
Used it for the first time in a year two days ago. My AMC Eagle wagon has a stroker motor, and I was pulling a large trailer. Otherwise, 87 in everything but my Ducati. Premium is a waste of money unless your engine requires it.
My Volvo s90 required 91 octane. Sometimes I would use half 89 and half 93, didn’t feel any difference with the mixture over using just 93. My current car only requires 87, so that is what it gets.
When I used to drag race (No, not the Ru Paul kind) I ran a 50/50 blend of racing gas & premium gasoline. Made my 407 cubic inch V-8 purr like a kitten…Well, maybe ROAR like a lion! Too fun & too expensive, hence, “used to drag race”.
@tohar1 shouldda just bought racing fuel
I use premium but I don’t pay for it
/giphy stop right there criminal scum
I’m 63 years old, of course I’ve paid for premium gas. Leaded, as well. And it was only .35 a gallon, so there’s that.
@lisaviolet Ha. was 20 cents in the gas wars just after Korea regular was 15.
@cranky1950
You remember gas wars.
I remember it at $.11. Mom and Dad had seen it at $.06 or less.
@f00l yeah I was very small, but buying gas was a big event considering I was stuck up on the hill if I wasn’t riding in the car. Damn dog usta tackle me if I tried t o sneak off.
Wow, a lot of Meh users have fancy cars! I guess that’s the payoff for saving pennies on bulk bidets?
I’ll have you know that I settled for nothing but the lowest octane for my old Honda Fit. Vroom vroom, the little car that sorta could! I have a Subaru Impreza now, which is overall better at being a car, but also eats a lot more (regular) gas. Sigh.
@currawong you shouldda bought a prius
the other day, safeway had a coupon in the app where you got 50 cents off gas if you spent more than $50 on groceries. so i filled my tank with the cheapest gas in town, minus 50 cents. $2.19 motha fuckas. and shut up gas is expensive here.
@meh
I live in an area with some of the most expensive states for gas.
(Although, even though NJ raised their prices last year as part of an effort to cut homeowners taxes, thus making them an expensive state, it’s still better than NY…)
@PlacidPenguin yeah but it is jersey, which is not better than NY
@meh
I never said I find Jersey pleasant though.
I do what I have to do there and then I leave as fast as possible.
@PlacidPenguin nods
@PlacidPenguin They changed it? That’s a shame. I used to always love filling my tank right after I visited my parents- way cheaper than anywhere else I drive, and I don’t have to get out of the car.
@Pantheist
An article last year phrased it like this:
NJ would go from being the 48th most expensive to the 8th.
@PlacidPenguin ouch.
Are we talking the premium grade or are we talking designer gas?
I bought 91 octane for almost 10 years because the manual for my Acura CL-S called for it. I also got non-ethanol back when I had to mow and take care of a lawn. However, my current vehicle (Subaru Legacy) only calls for 89, so that’s what it gets. As noted by many, buying “premium” gas is usually a waste unless the manual calls for it.
I only go to Shell or Chevron and consider it a bit of a personal mission to inform friends of what top tier gas is. I’ve had so many come back to say their mileage got better and engine runs better than the discount crap they’d used for years.
@ScottN Over multiple tanks, I have found some differences in quality with my wagon. 76 and Chevron, I’ve averaged the best mileage. Shell and Costco, 0.2 less. Arco (BP), 0.3 less. Off-brands, 0.5+ mpg less.
I lose 1.5 to 2 mpg going 87 versus 91.
Staying out of boost all the time has been the biggest factor in my mpg.
@narfcake said
What does that mean?
@f00l on a turbocharged car the turbo doesn’t start adding pressure (boosting power and fuel consumption) until you put your foot on it hard. You can drive gently and stay out of boost.
Supercharged cars are different in that they are always under boost.
@f00l What @djslack says, although some superchargers are clutched and only engaged when called upon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_induction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally_aspirated_engine
@djslack
@narfcake
My diesel is a turbo. (Not part of the emissions scandal.) Turbo is fun. And without using turbo, it likes to cruise at 80mph.
@narfcake I wonder how much is the boost and how much is staying at lower rpms.
I had a Mazda 626 that had a sticker on the gas cap cover which read “premium unleaded only”. I may have put premium in there a couple times.
@medz Must have been the V6. I had a four-cylinder 626 that drank the scuzziest stuff imaginable.
@windowphobe Yup. 1996 (I think) V6 with real leather seats! Zoom Zoom!
@medz Certainly more zoom than I had, though I had no problem making the little four-bangers work. (I had two of them: a '93 and a '00.)
I bought premium gas when my high compression engine equipped European sports car required it. I commute now all the time so that car is long gone (sadly) and I use shitty cheap gas like a normal person.
Re Top Tier gas
I usually go to Quiktrip, which is on the Top Tier list. And they have diesel for the when I’m in the diesel vehicle.
Can I assume that QuikTrip has gas that is close to Shell or Chevron in quality?
Also, the gas prices here (TX) jumped immediately after the Syrian missile strike, and are still high. Is that true everywhere?
@f00l I’m in SoCal. Fuel prices are high all the time.
@narfcake
What was the price for regular before the missile strike, if you can remember? What is it now?
@f00l I buy gas in South Carolina going and coming from home. I figure if I have to beat the crap out of my car using their tea party roads I might as well take advantage of the cheap gas.
@cranky1950 Anyway, reg gas in SC is running between 1.99 and 2.09
@cranky1950
Here we mostly have really nice roads, except for all the limited access roads in the big cities.
And those would be quite nice,
if they weren’t under construction every days for decades. : (
If they weren’t under construction every day for decades, they would be very nicely constructed parking lots much of the day. : (
Even so, many of them are reasonably driveable.
If the state and local roads, and the farm-to-market roads, and the state highways weren’t usually pretty nice statewide, you would see serious state-level voter unhappiness among all demographics. We kinda consider “nice roads” to be part of the state heritage.
@cranky1950
Here it was around $1.999 before the strike. After, it’s hovered at $2.299.
@f00l That’s close to prices in Charlotte some of the jungle juice stations are down to 2.15.
@f00l The last 6 months per GasBuddy charts:
@narfcake But you got movie stars and In and Out Burgers. We’ve just got cheap gas and 5 Guys.
@narfcake
@Cranky1950
Paid $2.149 today at QT for regular. First big drop since the missle strike.
We got summer. Some people don’t like it much. I get kinda sick of it sometimes by mid- or late-August.
But we got In and Out and we got Five Guys and they’re ok but nobody thinks they’re anywhere close to the top 30 non-chain places in town.
We don’t have much in the way of movie stars. I’d be ok with a few if they acted all right. But most people around here count that lack as a plus.
@f00l today qt regular was 1.999 before the discount.
Similar topic, what oil do you guys use? I use rotella T6- supposedly doesn’t shear as much as most others at high temperatures (my car has a turbo boxer engine, so gets hot), the zinc dry lubricates turbo, and it’s on sale for 20 bucks/gallon all the time.
@Pantheist Valvoline synthetic with the old engine package my car has 200000mi. My engine never really works hard though because its a hybrid and I drive like an old lady.
@Pantheist don’t need anything fancy. Most oils are hyped for marketing only. If your ride needs full synthetic, any big name brand will do, find the best sale price. Dollar store/convenience store oil has way less additives, so avoid those. For dino oil, same thing, just change more often. 3k is a waste for almost all cars.
I do 5k or two years, whichever comes first in my old truck. 8k or 1 year for my newer truck and crap car. 10k or 1 year on both of my synth cars. The last two I’m way overprotective of for no real reason, synth goes longer without acid buildup or molecular breakdown compared to conventional.
Get a sample tested from Blackstone if you’re curious on how much life is left. Bobistheoilguy.com is a good resource as well. And for Pete sale don’t by $10 oil filters, what a ripoff those are.
@michaelahess bob why I originally started using t6. Napa gold is the only aftermarket oil filter that has the same bypass pressure as OEM for my car, but 7 bucks isn’t bad.
@Pantheist Yeah I usually get pure ones on sale for a couple bucks, the motorcraft for my wife’s Mustang are the most expensive I buy as they aren’t on sale hardly ever, 5-6 maybe. I try to buy in bulk and get them down to 5. I have about 4 years of filters for 5 vehicles with the average filter cost under 2 bucks.
Napa gold is Wix
@cranky1950 Yeah, but there’s no reason to buy wix when napa gold is $1-3 less.
I bought premium gas today. Non gasohol premium 2.799 4 gallons, should last me into August. My small engines love the stuff, no stuck valves since I started using it.