@DaveInSoCal now you’re talkin’! But, to simulate the atmosphere of Mexico, we’ll need to play a loop of AK47 fire and mariachi music, and litter the sand with used needles and bandages
@capguncowboy No way! Las Gaviotas is gated and walled in. I think we can do something like that, and probably make someone else pay for it (if I understand anything about wall-building, it’s that other people are supposed to pay for it).
@capguncowboy I have no desire to get into an argument about this, as I am certain that we are almost completely in agreement about this issue, but I take exception to your phrasing: There was no due process. Our party system in general and our insanely (inanely?) convoluted primary system in particular are utterly fucked up.
Not looking to start a debate in this thread, but what if we somehow magically changed it to work something like this:
Every eligible voter (define this term elsewhere) gets one vote in the primary election (not elections!) for ANY of the candidates running in any state (there need to be minimum requirements to keep the riff-raff out, but why does a guy need to be registered in MY state for me to be able to vote for him (or her)?)
Tally all the primary votes for all the candidates (nationally) and the top three or four become the candidates for president and vice president (yes, I said AND).
Every eligible voter (again, defined elsewhere, but same definition as above) gets one vote in the final election. Winner is president, runner up is vice president (thus the AND) and the other(s) go home.
But regardless of what we do, I honestly believe that while we have political parties that squabble endlessly about things that mostly amount to bullshit, we are going to continue to have problems. It isn’t the republicans or the democrats that are causing the problems, but rather that they are unable to get over their relatively minor differences to work together on solving our major problems.
@baqui63 i couldn’t agree more. do away with the parties and get down to brass tax.
I’ll take it one step further. What if the campaign funds were part of the congressional budget and each candidate got the same amount. It could help keep corporations from buying candidates before they’re even in office.
Washington and many other leaders of that era were bitterly opposed to political parties. But parties are inevitably more efficient at the perpetuation of various POVs, and at getting a given person elected, and at self-perpetuation, hence they survive, and their existence tends to twist the process, the ideology, and the public nature of debate over time in the way that stars capture planets and planets capture moons.
There are various decent arguments for 1 person, 1 vote. And decent arguments for the current system, which the early constitutionalists created both as a matter of deliberate policy, and as a matter of contemporary political necessity for that time. If the system went to 1 person, 1 vote, you would start to see campaigning clustered only around very populous cities and states. No Pres candidate would waste any time on, say, Montana or on mostly rural or mountain states. DFW, Houston, and all of Texas; NYC and Bost-Wash; Chicago; LA and all of California; Phoenix and southern AZ; Florida; Atlanta; the Pacific NW; etc would likely get all the attention in much the way swing states do now.
I would personally like to see an end to the Supreme Court Citizens United decision, and a Supreme Court decision or federal law or similar banning or restricting gerrymandering, for a start. And then I would like to see a strong trend toward cooperation and respect for other POVs on Capital Hill.
Public financing of campaigning for national office is a lovely idea, depending on implementation.
The airways and other media will always be corruptible in the way they are now, I fear. A strong journalistic tradition of objectivity to the degree that such can be achieved IRL would likely be far better the our current situation, but “objectivity” can always be gamed; from within an organization, or from without.
My wife and I are ready to take a big dose of Fukitall, and flee the country, and only letting eldest and her two sons in on it. If only I had not let our Australian permanent residency lapse many years ago, we’d be on a flight to Perth ASAP. Canada is looking mighty fine, but I don’t believe that I would be acceptable, as I’m disabled now. Just going to have to make the best of it.
It might not make much difference where one might go. Some really big events possibly initiated from the Oval Office are irretrievably global. Being in Canada or even Australia might purchase very little time.
It seems to short a little excellence. This is good.
“only the mediocre are always at their best” isn’t true at all. Where’s the downvote button!?
Downvote, bah humbug.
Unless it’s a presidential contest.
@f00l ughhh… don’t get me started. I feel like I’m choosing my execution style. Which one will end it the fastest?
@capguncowboy
In some places (Austin, TX) satirical bumperstickers are commonplace. A current fav reads something like:
Vote for the Meteor Impact Nov 2016
@f00l
@f00l my wife showed me one that said “Giant Meteor 2016: Just end it already”
EDIT: Dave’s got it covered.
I’m saddened that after due process, these are our choices. I wonder if the voter registration office will be offering forms for Canadian citizenship?
@capguncowboy
Some Canadian areas that appear lovely are currently advertising for would-be Former Americans who want an alternative to Ending It All.
@capguncowboy I received one of Cards Against Humanity’s “Donald Trump Bug Out Bag’s.” It comes with the form to obtain Mexican citizenship.
@DaveInSoCal no thanks. I’d rather go north!
@capguncowboy
Warm weather, insane beaches, but poverty, poss kidnapping and drug lords
VS
Beautiful, good economy, friendly people, but endless fucking winter.
Winner: Canada, as a relative lives there. Maybe he’ll put me up for a few years.
@f00l Maybe a few of us can go in together and start a commune! I bet we could even get 2-3 months a year to grow a garden!
@capguncowboy Maybe we could convert a house in Canada into an indoor beach?
@DaveInSoCal now you’re talkin’! But, to simulate the atmosphere of Mexico, we’ll need to play a loop of AK47 fire and mariachi music, and litter the sand with used needles and bandages
@capguncowboy No way! Las Gaviotas is gated and walled in. I think we can do something like that, and probably make someone else pay for it (if I understand anything about wall-building, it’s that other people are supposed to pay for it).
@DaveInSoCal
@capguncowboy
Tempted. But perhaps the Meteor will start gaining in the polls. Future cloudy.
@f00l
/giphy magic 8-ball
@capguncowboy I have no desire to get into an argument about this, as I am certain that we are almost completely in agreement about this issue, but I take exception to your phrasing: There was no due process. Our party system in general and our insanely (inanely?) convoluted primary system in particular are utterly fucked up.
Not looking to start a debate in this thread, but what if we somehow magically changed it to work something like this:
Every eligible voter (define this term elsewhere) gets one vote in the primary election (not elections!) for ANY of the candidates running in any state (there need to be minimum requirements to keep the riff-raff out, but why does a guy need to be registered in MY state for me to be able to vote for him (or her)?)
Tally all the primary votes for all the candidates (nationally) and the top three or four become the candidates for president and vice president (yes, I said AND).
Every eligible voter (again, defined elsewhere, but same definition as above) gets one vote in the final election. Winner is president, runner up is vice president (thus the AND) and the other(s) go home.
But regardless of what we do, I honestly believe that while we have political parties that squabble endlessly about things that mostly amount to bullshit, we are going to continue to have problems. It isn’t the republicans or the democrats that are causing the problems, but rather that they are unable to get over their relatively minor differences to work together on solving our major problems.
Compromise is not a Bad Thing.
@baqui63 i couldn’t agree more. do away with the parties and get down to brass tax.
I’ll take it one step further. What if the campaign funds were part of the congressional budget and each candidate got the same amount. It could help keep corporations from buying candidates before they’re even in office.
@baqui63
Having the top vote-getter be Pres, and the next vote-getter be Veep has been tried. It did not work well - and now we have the present system.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1796
Washington and many other leaders of that era were bitterly opposed to political parties. But parties are inevitably more efficient at the perpetuation of various POVs, and at getting a given person elected, and at self-perpetuation, hence they survive, and their existence tends to twist the process, the ideology, and the public nature of debate over time in the way that stars capture planets and planets capture moons.
There are various decent arguments for 1 person, 1 vote. And decent arguments for the current system, which the early constitutionalists created both as a matter of deliberate policy, and as a matter of contemporary political necessity for that time. If the system went to 1 person, 1 vote, you would start to see campaigning clustered only around very populous cities and states. No Pres candidate would waste any time on, say, Montana or on mostly rural or mountain states. DFW, Houston, and all of Texas; NYC and Bost-Wash; Chicago; LA and all of California; Phoenix and southern AZ; Florida; Atlanta; the Pacific NW; etc would likely get all the attention in much the way swing states do now.
I would personally like to see an end to the Supreme Court Citizens United decision, and a Supreme Court decision or federal law or similar banning or restricting gerrymandering, for a start. And then I would like to see a strong trend toward cooperation and respect for other POVs on Capital Hill.
Public financing of campaigning for national office is a lovely idea, depending on implementation.
The airways and other media will always be corruptible in the way they are now, I fear. A strong journalistic tradition of objectivity to the degree that such can be achieved IRL would likely be far better the our current situation, but “objectivity” can always be gamed; from within an organization, or from without.
@capguncowboy mediocre.commune
My wife and I are ready to take a big dose of Fukitall, and flee the country, and only letting eldest and her two sons in on it. If only I had not let our Australian permanent residency lapse many years ago, we’d be on a flight to Perth ASAP. Canada is looking mighty fine, but I don’t believe that I would be acceptable, as I’m disabled now. Just going to have to make the best of it.
It might not make much difference where one might go. Some really big events possibly initiated from the Oval Office are irretrievably global. Being in Canada or even Australia might purchase very little time.
Every time I read this thread title I wonder who got themselves pregnant.