Just received @JasonToon's first Eucopia box, and it's awesome!

@JasonToon It was a fun experience (for both my wife and I) unpacking it, looking at all of the items, and reading what you wrote about them. It was packed very well, I really liked the grey squigly packaging stuff. We had to keep our toddler from eating those though...

I'm excited for future boxes - good to know that they'll be even better!

@sammydog01 I thought about mentioning it in my original post, but the cake server definitely isn't made with normal American cakes in mind. It's made for both a shorter cake (or tortes, as you said), and definitely for smaller serving sizes. It actually looks very Japanese to me, especially considering the smaller serving size.

@sammydog01 And that's the thing with Indiegogo/Kickstarter campaigns - most of them are to help out a friend rather than snag an awesome deal. I'm not saying you shouldn't feel underwhelmed, but helping out is part of the campaign.

@ACraigL I'm interested in seeing what you get from the writer's box - please post when you get it! :)

@luvche21 Definitely! It's the December box, so not expecting it before then.

@dashcloud in the wild huh? That's probably my favorite phrase ever.

@medz so you unboxed it, packaged it back up, then wrapped it? You're sneaky!

@medz I'm fond of grabbing something like a lootcrate and using everything in it as stocking stuffers. Cheap, cool, and effective!

@luvche21 Yup. She knows nothing about it. It'll seem like a unique gift that i actually put zero thought into!

@medz that's not a bad idea!

@sohmageek Those plates ARE awesome. Only wish I had more!

@luvche21 They have them at Amazon, as well as other places. Haven't found that specific color set but http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00V6GFLUG/ is a colorful small (7") plate set that's close. They also have dinner plates. They are not inexpensive.

@jbartus Premium subscription boxes, such as this which has been ingeniously crafted by @JasonToon, aren't at all for people that are going to nit-pick the dollar amount. The "deal" is the exposure to products that you might not otherwise ever know of, and the manner in which it is presented. If you're concerned about the $50, you're absolutely not a part of his target demographic. The intrinsic value here far exceeds the price paid.

@Pavlov It's not about nitpicking the dollar amount, it's about value added over and above what I can get freely from a blog somewhere. As I noted, at the current value for crate there's little to be gained over choosing to just see what's in the bundle on an unboxing video beyond the surprise when a box with unknown goodies shows up. Is that surprise worth something? Yes. But worth $50 if I don't like anything in a given month's crate? Not really.

On another tack -- I can go read, for example, a Europhile blog (plenty out there) and hear about all of these awesome products they love and cherry pick the things that interest me at no cost to myself other than that which I choose to purchase. Sure I lose out on the surprise factor when it shows up, but I also get a lot more security in knowing that I'm going to get stuff I will like.

With that said if you're all about these kinds of boxes for the experience of the surprise factor and the benefit of not having to poke around the internet looking for ideas of things to get, then great. I was simply providing feedback from an alternate perspective to yours. @JasonToon can take it or leave it as he wishes, my feelings won't be hurt.

I do still think the price point stuff I mentioned has value regardless of whether the perceived value should be worked on or not. There's a lot of psychology involved with pricing.

@jbartus I'm quite certain that @JasonToon will be delighted to never have the concern of you as a customer.

@jbartus IIRC there was a "mini" box version available as well, unless I imagined it. But I must express agreement with what @Pavlov said, the value here is in the curation, not in the dollars. Even if you're counting dollars, you must account for the value of your time spent looking through Europhile blogs for things to order from Amazon if you want to compare apples to apples.

I'm not a subscriber either, though. These things aren't for everyone.

@jbartus FWIW - I fully see your point. While there is some value added from the care and effort put into sourcing and curating these special boxes; at the current price point, that value isn't quite enough to tip a casual curiosity customer into a subscriber. It will be interesting to see how it evolves going forward.

@Pavlov Hostile much?

@djslack Yeah, there is, but that explicitly states it's a single item which makes the risk of not getting anything of interest to you much higher.

I'm not opposed to the idea that I, and the other people I know who buy these sorts of boxes, aren't the target market, quite the contrary in fact. With that said I do still feel that at the very least a portion of my feedback still applies, namely the pricing bit. Regardless of whether a person values the curation itself as having a significant value, by putting it at a price point where it will get associated with a hundred bucks is going to limit the market.

It's just feedback though on first impressions of the product. It could be @JasonToon wants to cater to a more exclusive market, there's certainly nothing wrong with that. But, as someone who started and runs their own business, and previously worked at a couple of start ups, I know that one of the worst feelings is not getting the business you'd hoped to without any idea why. So, if some day Eucopia's not doing as well as he'd hoped, maybe he'll remember the thoughts I shared and it will help him, or maybe it won't. One things for sure, not saying anything wouldn't.

@Thumperchick yeah I agree, like I said I'm going to keep an eye on it because it's definitely piqued my interest, I just don't think it's quite there for me yet. That said, and as I noted, he's said in response earlier that this one was a bit rushed and shoestringed, and the upcoming releases should be better. I'm looking forward to seeing what he's got in store. :)

@jbartus Right on. I'm not saying that your feedback isn't valid at all. It is a bit of a tough spot to find a price point that you can get nice stuff while not being too expensive. But a less expensive box will have to cut something out.

@djslack Yeah, well that's where I'm hoping that prominence will help him. As his box begins to make the rounds he'll have an easier time approaching companies for bulk orders and being taken seriously. Wholesale pricing will bring his costs down, letting him add more value. Net gain to value without increasing his cost would help with all of the stuff I mentioned. The association will remain but if the value comes up it will make it more appealing which will help offset. :)

@jbartus My remark wasn't at all meant to be hostile. I certainly can't help the manner in which you may have interpreted it, and connotation as we all know is a bitch on the Internet. If I was being hostile, you most likely wouldn't have needed the question mark or the passive-aggressive, derisive retort to begin with . . .

As for your opinion on price sensitivity and consumer psychology, I'd certainly be interested to see any empirical data set / study / reputable source material that supports your assertion of:

When you're at $50 you're now at the halfway point to $100. People make that connection in their head almost instantly, even if they normally suck at doing math in their head because it's money, it's 10 based, and it's a simple fraction. When you start getting people thinking about $100 they start thinking "crap, this is serious money [...]

as if such exists, I'd certainly find it very useful and most interesting.

@jbartus

It's not about nitpicking the dollar amount

i don't fucking see you doing much of anything else

@jbartus As an addendum - you also wrote:

by putting it at a price point where it will get associated with a hundred bucks

Again, I'd certainly be interested to see any empirical data set / study / reputable source material that supports this assertion as it relates to price sensitivity and consumer psychology.

@jbartus I too would like to chime in to call BS on your pricing studies with respects to @Pavlov.

As an avid researcher with background in Sociology, Psychology, and the other social sciences, i can say there are flaws in your comments.

Are there studies into pricing and consumer behavior, yes. Most however have been steadily related to three main areas... 0.99, the idea that people will spend money when things are just under a certain point. Example $9.99 vs $10. The second would be around the $20 price point. Because of the common place of the $20 (ATMs, Cashback) people perceive this as a common place dollar amount. Adequate and nonsubstaintial. Thats why its such a popular dollar amount for items. The last would be on the idea of perceieved deal. When you mark an item for a high percentage off, people perceive value where there may not actually be value. Example...if Meh sold a speaker dock for $20 and said that its retail price was $100...you feel like you got an amazing deal and are much more willing to buy. However if Meh said the realistic retail was closer to $30...suddenly the deal doesnt seem as great and desire to buy drops.

Next...your valuation of the box. Come on dude...

Could someone go and search Europhile blogs for info on cool items...sure. Could they go and search out and access these items themselves...sure. Maybe thats your cup of tea, but for most. Paying a bit more out of pocket to support a business and interest of a person is worth it. I value my time and have no background in cool european stuff. Thus the price point makes sense. The know-how of @jasontoon to procure items of theme at reasonable costs, create boxes, and ship those containers is an additional value you are receiving aside from the value of the actual items. Do you eat out at all? "Man, a hamburger at this restraunt costs 9.99! Golly, for that price i could buy everything i need for 4 decked out hamburgers!" No shit, you are not just paying for the fucking item, you pay for the process to gain convenient access to the item.

@jbartus I happen to agree with you, and I don't get the hate unless these people think you're picking on their favorite writer. I bought the mini crate specifically because it was $12 (usually $15). It was OK, just not my thing. Jason may indeed have enough subscribers willing to pay $50 for $50 dollars worth of stuff, it's not a ripoff or anything, but that's a lot of money for me.

@sammydog01 Speaking for myself, I don't care for Jason's writing many times. I'm certainly not intending to direct "hate" towards any member through my discourse here in this thread, in fact, I attempted to clear up a previous misunderstanding.

I will admit that when I notice the arrogance of a comment such as this:

[...] if some day Eucopia's not doing as well as he'd hoped, maybe he'll remember the thoughts I shared and it will help him [...]

Then yes, I may prudently question the veracity of their previous assertions.

Also, note that this member writes:

[...] as someone who started and runs their own business, and previously worked at a couple of start ups, I know that one of the worst feelings is not getting the business you'd hoped [...]

Okay . . . is your current business at all successful or are you living in your parent's basement or crashing on a friend's couch? Why did you leave the other companies? Did they fail - and if so, did they fail as a direct result of your involvement? The list of completely reasonable questions grows quickly . . .

Alas, I'm already late for the celebration of the day so I'll have to cut my comments short there - but I'll certainly be interested to check back for any reply later this weekend, as time allows.

@Pavlov so here's what appears to me to be the entire problem, you're reading in arrogance where there is none. I made an observation that if things are later going less well than he hoped having feedback from people who his current offering doesn't hook might be helpful, and that it's certainly more helpful than not having any at all, which I related to an experience I had with a start up I previously worked for. The TL:DR version of which would be "I know how it feels for a product not to be selling and nobody's giving you feedback to help you figure out why, so now he has some feedback in case it happens." As a potential consumer for whom the current offering doesn't do it, my feedback might be valuable to him, it also might not. But if I don't give him feedback it literally never will. Being surrounded by yes men doesn't do anybody in business any good.

Arrogance would be me posting saying "You need to charge no more than $35 and have a value of the contents of no less than $70 to make this box worthwhile to anyone." I didn't do that, and if you weren't reading things into my posting you'd see that. This is the hostility I'm talking about that I picked up on, it's like you take everything I say, cast it into the worst possible light you can come up with, and then cover it in dog shit for good measure. You accuse me of being passive-aggressive towards you with the 'Hostile much?' comment, but in reality I was reacting to your perceived hostility towards me. You've done it elsewhere too and if this is just how you are, if it's not anything personal to me, (though I question such based on some of your posts I see where I don't notice this same type of tone) then fine, I'll accept that and just give you a wide berth avoiding you where I can to avoid conflict. I mean seriously, it's not worth getting all bent out of shape about.

As for my experience, my business is doing quite well, thank you. Regarding the start-ups I was referencing, one is doing fine, the other one has a complicated answer. About a year after I left the company due to a disagreement with the principal owners (old friends since high school), the bulk of the company basically fell apart with only the retail division surviving. There are a few reasons for this, but suffice to say things got stressful after I left to the point that they parted ways unpleasantly about two years after I left with one retaining the company and the other taking half the debt and exiting stage left. Last I heard they don't even really speak to each other. On the plus side, despite the dispute which led to my giving my notice, once things got rough they did end up coming to me to apologize and admit I'd been right, so that was nice. I maintain my friendship with one of the owners to this day.

Regarding the rest, honestly responding to you doesn't strike me as great use of my time this holiday weekend as I feel like we'll just go back on this merry-go-round of perceived hostility. @studerc touched on the basics of the principle I referred to with his mention of the $20 thing, though in a very basic sense (I'm not really sure what prompted the charm pricing portion of his comments, but Eucopia makes good use of charm pricing as it is). With that said, I don't know @studerc's background but he only presented three of the most commonly known psychological principles as they relate to pricing, there are a vast array of additional areas and principles where psychological effects have been studied even up to presentational stuff like the use of color, font-sizing, and kernining to impact the perception of your price. This has been, as you can imagine, a wide area of study over the years as companies seek out ways to improve sales, etc.

Edit: Honestly, it's clear my thoughts on this subscription box aren't being well received here. I've said what I have to say on the matter and if the guy who made the crate wants to take my feedback into account or not, that's up to him. If you guys think I'm harping on only about the price, I can't really counter that as, in reality, with a subscription box that's basically the only area that matters. It's not like most products where build quality and such apply, though those can later become a factor if the contents don't measure up to people's expectations. As I've noted, I think the idea of this subscription is interesting, I'm going to keep my eye on it and if it becomes more appealing to me I'll be a customer, if not such is life, it's not a big deal. I'm really not sure why my providing feedback on the crate got such a rise out of a few people but it is what it is. If you don't like my feedback, or disagree with it, that's fine, you're as entitled to your opinions as I am. I've said what I wanted to say (and much more) so I'm going to go ahead and bow out of this thread. Have a great holiday weekend everyone.

@jbartus TL;DR.

Heres my guess...

Blah blah blah. Bullshit. Blah blah blah. Skate around stuff. Blah blah blah. Superiority complex.

I love purple.

@jbartus (@dave) For the sake of brevity:

To the issue of arrogance, I'm an occasional verbose, arrogant asshole. When I wake up tomorrow, nothing will have changed. It takes one to know one - so the saying goes.

My comment -

I'm quite certain that @JasonToon will be delighted to never have the concern of you as a customer.

wasn't at all hostile. After years of learning the hard way and researching what type(s) of customer(s) a business doesn't want (or cannot afford to have) - and realizing this was true long before it was a popular notion - in this particular instance, you absolutely meet those criteria for Eucopia. If Jason were to incorporate your unsolicited advice, he most likely wouldn't ever be building for his actual market. The way you present your business should be a reflection of your audience. You have to find your niche and build your content to suit them. You're not Jason's audience. And based on your comments of not wanting to be surprised by anything in a subscription box, you most likely never will be.

I was really looking forward to some specific empirical data backing up your assertion of price sensitivity at the $50 (USD) mark (and I must admit a strong sense of disappointment that you've offered none - I'm sure it would have been of keen interest to many here). As you've offered none, I can only be left to assume that the comments were your own opinion, and reflective of your own feelings and observations and sensitivity to that price point. As such, they're certainly valid - but for you. However, given the manner in which you presented these comments, it truly seemed as though you were speaking from a position of being an authority on the matter or at least being in possession of confirmable documentation to support the statement (which you made several times and used it as a basis for part of your argument) . . . as it is, it appears to be something you hoped would be taken for a generally accepted postulate (a statement accepted as true for the purposes of argument) when it is only reflective of your own feelings. After extensive searching, I was unable to find any pricing study to support your assertion.

If you guys think I'm harping on only about the price, I can't really counter that as, in reality, with a subscription box that's basically the only area that matters.

In reality, subscription boxes, just like any other endeavor, have many "areas" that matter - however I would counter that the most important would be content. After all, if I'm wanting a subscription box of say, chocolates, I may be very upset to find I've been sent a crate of factory second farming implements.

IMHO you really need to take a few steps back and not take things so personally.

Welcome to the "4chan of e-commerce" to borrow on another member's phrase.

As for my "tone" or tenor with you specifically - again, it isn't personal. It is issue / post based and post specific, certainly not because it may have been written by you.

Finally, don't bow out of a discussion so quickly or easily - you'll only get a reputation for being quite the milquetoast.

Enjoy your weekend also.

@Pavlov You're discussing advanced business concepts with a know it all 20 something year old child that is a half ass web designer and full time gamer who volunteer mods on a gaming forum and the last thing he can stand is to not have the last word or be called out as being wrong. Check the handle @jbartus against Twitter and LinkedIn and Google. This kid hasn't lived nor does he really have much a clue. Just putting his comments in their proper perspective. His whole $50 = $100 line is ridiculous, and I majored in marketing and have worked sales for 28 years. And you're right about the whole "don't need you as a customer" concept - I fire customers like this kid every day and my business is better off for it.

@lisabo It's a bit creepy when people go internet sleuthing on other users.

@Thumperchick Much like my choice of men during my twenties- I'm not proud I did it, but it happened. I'm not defending myself and I ask for no pardon, but I would like to expound on my actions (the sleuthing, not the string of losers in my twenties, although that would possibly make a good read).

I came into this thread reading one of @Pavlov's posts back to @jbartus yesterday and then as this kept going on, I just decided to start over and re-read everything with fresh eyes- without prejudice- as something seemed off to me.

After reading everything (and re-reading it again) it was painfully obvious to me why things felt off to @Pavlov and @studerc and others- and @Pavlov's bullshit detector is usually better than most (and better than he exhibited here) and I figured it was probably because, as he said, he was busy with the holiday. Otherwise I'm sure he would have picked up on a few things that I did immediately. @studerc just calls it like he sees it and he isn't always wrong to do that.

A) The whole $50=$100 issue. That struck me deeply as something my son in college might say. But this was also a bit different, it had an underlying feeling to it that made me wonder based on B) the "I can do it myself for free" so "this can't be of value" issue @jbartus raised if there was something else at play. If @jbartus doesn't value his own time then he can't truly appreciate that of others, and in business if he undervalues his own time then he doesn't value his business worth and he will consequently always undervalue and under-price himself in the marketplace. This would explain why @jbartus has such a personal issue with $50- he's afraid of it. Afraid that OTHERS will see $50 as halfway to $100 and that they'll feel it is too much. Afraid to price himself at his true worth for fear that he won't get it, or that he's not worth it. This is a common mistake of youth and inexperience, and as he C) goes out of his way to tell us that he has been involved in several start-ups and owns his own business- another tell-tale sign of business immaturity as no one cared, no one had asked, and no one questioned his opinion or his credentials. @jbartus felt insecure in his own statement subconsciously and he felt the need to bolster himself- and subsequently bolster his opinions- proactively to justify to himself and to others what he wants us to believe, because he believes it deep down, that his declaration that $50 MUST equal $100 is a fact. It isn't. And note that when pressed, @jbartus can't provide any basis in marketing science to back up his opinion and instead of debating politely his position on merit, he withdraws from the discussion entirely. Another tell-tale sign of business immaturity. D) The "it's all about price, no I'm not nitpicking price, yes, it is really about price, no it's not, well, yes, the only thing that possibly matters with boxes like these is price, issue". Again, this screams to me lack of experience and youth and dissociative thinking when it comes to matters of business and marketing in the real world.

So I'm sitting here and trying to think of how to put all of this together and make some sense of it and everything leads me back to thinking to myself "this is just a really, really smart kid that just needs some life experience" so yeah, I Googled his username, and then it all started to make sense- things made even more sense for me especially when I read of his involvement with another forum as a volunteer moderator, as it appeared that he was very forum savvy (beyond his years) but I couldn't shake that this was an immature poster with a lot of potential and a lack of real-world business savvy (borne only by the weight of years of experience). It also made sense to me why then @jbartus had such an issue deciphering @Pavlov. Not the least of which is that @Pavlov is occasionally gruff and difficult to discern but @Pavlov also seemed a bit off his game (as I mentioned which is probably as he said, due to the holiday). I've been around here a long time and not only is this now the longest posting I've ever made here, it may be the longest of my life. But I've seen @Pavlov do some really brilliant stuff here- I'm reminded of the time he really pissed off the guy needing help on his essay and @Pavlov came back with Carly Simon's You're So Vain, but then right after the other guy came back in a tiff, @Pavlov flipped it into a brilliant dissertation that ultimately led to the guy thanking him and the guy writing a great paper. I kind of expected something like that here- and I can see where @Pavlov was taking this, but I feel he may have been stymied. And the fact he's dealing with a kid might have been what stymied him. So, I thought I'd share what I found when I Googled @jbartus.

So there is a whole lot of TL:DR but that's what led me to make my previous post.

Peace!

@lisabo Well, no. He was asked for his credentials, so he listed them. Whether or not they're authentic... I can't say.

I do understand that there is absolutely no guarantee or even expectation of privacy - it's the internet and anything you post publicly is public. If you felt the need to vet him for his opinion, I get that, since he was speaking with an air of authority and no source material. However; unless someone is here trying to sell crap to us, earning a bit of healthy skepticism by asking for our money; looking up their username for background information, then posting that to discredit their argument flat out rubs me the wrong way.
It also makes this place a hell of a lot less welcoming for new posters, imo. Why bother jumping in if everything you post is getting picked apart instantly and someone's dragging in your twitter account to verify your right to talk?

None of this has anything to do with any rules, anyone or anything said by meh/mediocre - just my personal take on something that bothers me. Perhaps more than it should, but it feels like it bothers me just right.

@Thumperchick Not for nothing, but he offered his credentials in the thread first, without being asked.

After reading this a few times, I'm really not certain that anything was posted to intentionally discredit - as even you acknowledge:

[...] the need to vet him for his opinion, I get that, since he was speaking with an air of authority and no source material.

However, I fully agree it would have been beneficial that it not have been posted in the thread.

Admittedly, I really don't know what else to say . . .

A hearty "'da fuck?" (re: this entire sub-thread) comes to mind, but doesn't really do it the justice it deserves.

@Pavlov Ah, I see it now. Made the mistake of letting my memory of this thread guide me and we see where that got us...

@jbartus They're just jealous because you're 20-something and they're old farts. Me too. Enjoy your youth. :)

@sammydog01 don't worry about me, I'm not bothered by anything posted here, people are entitled to jump to any conclusions they like. It's the internet, I have long since ceased to be surprised by such nonsense. Thanks for the support, though. :)

To everyone else, I bowed out of this conversation because it became apparent from the responses I was getting when I posted that my posts would have ulterior motives read into them and subsequent responses haven't changed my mind on the matter. With that said, I would appreciate it if you would stop tagging me in your posts. If you want to keep discussing the matter, go for it, but reference me without the @ sign if you don't mind. I've got better things to do.

@jbartus Ulterior motives such as requesting simple empirical data to support your claims. Constructive feedback is a great tool but throwing out a bunch of nonsensical bullshit is not. Your passive aggressive commentary is quite apparent as much as it is immature.

Dont start shit if you dont intend to back it up and finish.

@sammydog01 Let the record show that I am not an old fart and in fact am also one of those twenty somethings. :)

@studerc Congrats!

@jbartus You can turn off @ notifications in your global settings here in the forum.

@jbartus

but reference me without the @ sign if you don't mind

Crybaby much? 'Cause this is how I see you now -

@dave I'm probably irrelevant in the discussion, as I'm not the target consumer. I only bought this because Jason was selling it, just like I bought a graphic novel about zombie cows because @ChadP wrote it. Zombie cows, great, graphic novels I just don't get- same as stuff they use in Europe I guess.

@sammydog01 Huh, learn something new every day…

@sammydog01 You can't bring up a zombie cow graphic novel, and then not link to it!

@AnnaB :)

@Cerridwyn - You're in luck! It's a subscription monthly thing - you can buy one anytime. http://www.eucopia.com/

@Cerridwyn - And I noticed they are still selling the box described here on the site, while supplies last.

@KDemo @Cerridwyn actually there's a special : If you subscribe for 3 months you get the current box free.

@JasonToon Thank you for trying, and attempting to make us just a little bit more cultured!