Fiction Books Cause Mental Illness?!?
2Apparently a school principal wrote a blog post criticizing books like LotR, Harry Potter, Terry Pratchett's books, Game of Thrones, The Hunger Games, and more.
I didn't read the referenced article, but just reading this piece about it has made me start hitting my head against the wall.
While I have not read The Hunger Games, or books by Terry Pratchett, and I only read part of GoT (before it got massively spoiled for me), I have read LotR, and Harry Potter numerous times.
OK, when it comes to Harry Potter, at least people have a reason why they won't let the books in the house. Do I agree with those reasons? Not at all.
However, compared to Harry Potter, LotR is "clean", and by that I mean that it's not like there is really any romance or direct applications of death (if one could object to a kid reading stuff like that).
To claim that the books "can damage the sensitive subconscious brains of young children, many of whom may be added to the current statistics of mentally ill young children" is utterly ridiculous.
If you want to read the original blog post, it's over here.
- 9 comments, 27 replies
- Comment
I read a ton of fiction when young, and I read or listen to a ton of fiction now.
I am clearly batshit crazy, or nearly so, despite failing the batshit crazy entrance exam.
If I want to pass the exam next time, perhaps I should increase my fiction consumption. Whaddaya think?
(PS I really hope Stephen Colbert takes this one on.)
(PPS Perhaps that principal lacks the judgement to be an educator.)
(PPPS GOT is worth reading even if someone spoiled it for you. GRRM might have trouble finishing his books, but when he does, they're worth a read.)
@f00l
There's a sad truth in your second to last point. (The one about him not being fit to be an educator.)
@FroodyFrog
Oops, i added a point. Sowwy.
@f00l
You pulled a @mfladd. (I have decided that that should be a thing.)
Now it's clear which point I'm referring to. (This was my 3rd edit. The first two came after your edit.)
@f00l I would not recommend A Song of Fire and Ice for kids, however. I loved it as an adult.
@sammydog01
Middle school kids have prob seen/read way worse, even if their parents don't know about it.
Younger kids usually avoid Tomes anyway.
@f00l
Paul and Storm - Write Like The Wind (George R. R. Martin)
Correction:
I fell in my own trap. I meant to write A Song of Ice and Fire, not GoT.
@FroodyFrog
Yeah, but most people call it by the HBO name even if they read it first. Have friends who read/loved it, but would not recognize SOIAF. They only know GOT.
Don't even get me going on this. Grrrrr...... I hated reading. Would never read. My first real books enjoying was, The Hobbit (and then Lord of the Rings). Yes, George R. R. Martin (I knew the Red Wedding was coming), Stephen Donaldson, Frank Herbert, Terry Brooks, Anne McCafferey, Julian May, Blah Blah Blah. I am such a fantasy/sci-fi geek. If it was not for this fiction I would I would not be who I am (which many might like ;).
@mfladd
A lot of kids only really developed a love of reading through fantasy books (I.e The Hobbit, LotR, Harry Potter, possibly The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy).
They have allowed readers to explore new literary universes, and allow the imagination to roam.
The Principal who wrote the article was of the mindset that a book by Shakespeare, Shelley, Dickens etc is better than modern fiction any time.
While books by those authors have some advantages, the education system, like anything else, needs to adapt to the times.
I've seen booklists from some schools where they actually seriously promoted reading Harry Potter and LotR, because they knew that these books would get kids to enjoy reading.
Turns out, he actually wrote that he has this mindset;
@mfladd
Does the contrapositive hold?
If i *don*t love you, do i get to not despair?
Party time!
@mfladd I hated reading too, until The Hobbit. Then Lord of the Rings followed, and by college it was Stephen King. I may read mostly crap now, but at least I read.
@sammydog01
And that's the point, as long as it's crap you enjoy. So +1.
As you can see, we have a lot of impressionable minds here.
To all:
Ha! I re-read my post and noticed this part did not sound right. I actually meant that many would not like me. I am damned with this post.
Except for having your child read. No matter what it is. Dickens, comic books, whatevah.
I need a break.
@mfladd
Ref: earlier snark on the "scary Galadriel" scene -
in spite of my cheapo jokes, i first read Hobbit/LOTR in elementary school, and have re-read and re-listened to them many times. Have even done The Silmarillion more than once. And love the films.
Both with the books and films, if i had to pick a fav, FOTR would win by an infinitesimal. Altho Gollum is awesome, and Tolkien's interweaving of events, fate, duty, decency, loss, and grace is even more so, and these build as the trilogy goes forward.
I just have a snark brain this year. Mea culpa.
@f00l Snark, I never mind. You know that :)
@f00l I hate @mfladd and am perfectly despair free, so take from that what you will!
@mfladd
@jaremelz
@FroodyFrog
Strictly speaking, i fucked up the notion of a contrapositive here. Galadriel's remark is not strictly susceptible to a contrapositive, since G neither states that love implies despair nor that despair implies love.
And even if G had so implied, i fucked it up.
So i blame that an idiot had just tripped me, causing a fall, and a lightly spained ankle and wrist; which is way lame for an excuse. And i blame that i no longer possess a functioning brain if i ever did, which is more accurate.
And i blame @medz and all goats, past and future, and all implied goats and all contrapositive goats.
So mea the fucking culpa. My bad.
@mfladd The first books I remember loving were by Heinlein and Niven. I have no memory of how old I was, but grade school (and I'm 60). It made me who I am.
On a less or more serious note. The first movie my daughter was ever taken to see was Alien. She smiles when she says it now. (she was 3 weeks old). But she fell in love with ET the day it was released.
To me, SF and Fantasy stimulates the mind. It helps you think without a box (to hell with being outside of one.) It was the best gift my parents ever gave me.
And don't ban books. Don't restrict what anyone reads (outside of pure porn and a child). Be there to explain it to them.
I used to have the first version of Ice and Fire. It was a standalone book. He rewrote the ending when he used it to create a universe.
And remember - Science Fiction fans eat their dead.
Live long and prosper
I'm sure that if young readers were deprived of the "un-sensitive" books he deplores (LoTR, Harry Potter, SOIAF, Pratchett, Hunger Games, etc) they would turn straight to his preferred list of appropriate lit.
Oh, wait, maybe they won't. Maybe instead they will turn to Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, GOT on HBO, the Marvel film universe, R-rated films, The Fast and the Furious, and other innocent fun like Grand Theft Auto.
Seems The Victorian Horse Has Left The Barn. Oh dear. Maybe we're doomed. Woe is us. Or not....
@f00l
In all honesty, I could see SOME reason why he's against Song of Ice and Fire (not that I agree with it), but I'm not really sure what's not good with LotR.
If it's an objection to fighting, and to wars, then like you said, there are worse (comparatively) alternatives for sources.
@FroodyFrog
Yeah, SOIAF is not really for elementary kids, tho some will read it anyway and be just fine. Most will avoid books that big that dont have a YA feel to them anyway.
As for the rest of the books on his "harmful to young minds" list: his mind is the one so sensitive that he breaks out into a full case of "educational nonsense" hives. Perhaps he should get that treated, or get a medalert bracelet.
Just cause he has that problem, doesnt mean the rest of everyone, including kids, has to be as dumb as he is.
The willfully ignorant fear education. It's much easier to declare curious minds "mentally ill" than to educate and nourish them.
Just wondering how anyone figures that works by Shakespeare don't contain ideas of magic, control or ghostly and frightening stories? Has that guy actually ever read any Shakespeare?
@AnnaB
It's one of the MANY ways the article by the principal is just completely ridiculous.
Honestly, he doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.
@AnnaB
Just found this paragraph from The Daily Mail article about the article:
"Ironically, one of Keats' most famous poems, 'Lamia', is about a seductive serpent woman and Shakespeare's plays are full of ghosts, demons and bloody violence."
@FroodyFrog
Did you see Samantha Shannon's response, detailing the plot of Titus Andronicus?
http://www.theguardian.com/childrens-books-site/2016/may/09/harry-potter-causes-mental-illness-graeme-whitling-samantha
@f00l
Broken link.
@FroodyFrog
http://www.theguardian.com/childrens-books-site/2016/may/09/harry-potter-causes-mental-illness-graeme-whitling-samantha-shannon
While I disagree with much of what the principal says (a "special license" to buy those books? WTF?), I would argue that the article somewhat misrepresents his position. He doesn't dismiss Potter, LotR, etc out of hand, but suggests that some kids might be starting on them too early. If you find reading his entire blog post too off-putting, I think this passage is the bulk of what the LA times article takes issue with.
Yes, I would agree that "can damage the sensitive subconscious brains of young children" is off-base, but twisting that to the sound-bite "causes brain damage" is sensationalizing the story. While Whiting (the principal) is using "brain" as a euphemism for mind or psyche and "damage" is a poor choice of words, the LA Times reporter makes it sound he is contending the books cause physical trauma to the actual organ.
I agree that the principal is wrong, but he isn't a doddering buffoon espousing total nonsense. His position is over-stated by the LA Times with the explicit purpose of causing our outrage.
@DrWorm
The thing is, he seems to be saying though, that Shakespeare, Keats etc would be better for kids.
If his concern is with regards to the topics contained within fiction, then he has no claim, since Shakespeare especially is more direct with certain elements (such as romance, death, magic.)
On a side note, I know a lot of people who grew up at a young age reading LotR, Harry Potter, Terry Pratchett, and they have no issues discerning reality from fiction.
@DrWorm
Well, i think he is a doddering buffoon, on this topic, without any sensationalizing. And he has a little case of "i know what's best for everyone's kids, and the rest of the world doesn't." going on. And he totally blows his own case.
But, FWTW, sensationalizing stuff is what the internet is for (and cats and porn, of course). Most of us see it, recognize it, go with it if it's not too serious, and have a good time.
If my kid were in that school, i'd be weighing alternatives.
@froodyfrog Well... I wouldn't believe this one that much, most of the smartest people I know like fantasy/scifi... However, I can say it may be a spin-off of this study...
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-28537149
siting kids have a hard time telling what is fantasy and what is reality when they have religion in their life.
@sohmageek
;)
Kids can have a tough time separating fantasy and reality. So can adults. You work it out.
The biggest diff re feeding younger kids and kids who don't like reading Dickens etc vs Hunger Games, Harry Potter, LOTR, etc, this that the kids might actually read in the 2nd group. Kids deprived on the 2nd group will cheerfully get their fantasies from YV, cartoons, Disney, trad kid's stories, vid games, their friends, urban legends, and school tales.
Fantasy vs reality issue will still be present, no matter Dickens vs Nickelodeon vs Marvel vs LOTR vs TV vs local gossip vs some 1st person shooter.
That explains religion.